Timing sucks. This wall of text proves it once again.

reading shit like this totally motivates me to start playing duel.

play more promode

it just means that explaining a 'mindset switch' is hard :)

I find it easier to just do an simple addition in my head, but thanks for the effort.

Yeah but its like the times table isn't it? Once you've done the sums enough you just remember the answers automatically, so this probably isn't that bad of a way to learn it fast if you wanted to.

No, I think it's more "difficult" for them because the math system they learn in the first grade is different overseas.

I remember I bought an American book a long time ago about some "magic" math system, and the book made the guy so famous in the States because he was able to add or multiply numbers together very very fast.
Took me about 30 pages to realize that it's the math system I learned in the elementary school.
I also remember that I looked up what kind of a system they have there: it was much easier and also had benefits, but it was (obviously) hard for me to understand why they prefer that one.

They learn elementary arithmetic and algebra differently, and while things are getting similar after the first few grades, the different foundations will result in a different solving mechanism......

sorry, but I don't really remember what was the exact difference because it was more than 10 years ago, but basically what he is describing here,I already have that "hard wired" in the "add-er" (:D) part of my brain.

whats the diff?

I honestly saying that i can't remember:((
I spent like 15 minutes today thinking about it what it was.
I will see if I still have the book somewhere because it's started with an explanation how the US education system teaches math in lower grades (probably evolved already and not even applies anymore nowadays), and than it continued with the "better" method.

What I remember was something about that our system were emphasizing on the process of sensing the numbers, while "yours" was more about how operations affect the numbers.

Sorry but I really don't remember:S

I am curious, how you add, substract or multiply in your head?

stermy's timer is down i think

I started playing QL recently, and have been trying to get timing down to the second as well.

What I currently do when I pick up a big item, is take note of the seconds on the clock. Then I do either +30 or -30, depending on which is easier for the current number. Then, if it was the mega that was picked up, I do +5. In the case of armor, I do -5.

This seems to be working for me so far, though when I try to time 2 items I get confused rather easily. :P For now I focus on timing mega to the second, and feel out the armors. Yeah it's guesswork, but because there's usually more than 2 armors I can usually at least remember the order in which they will be spawning, and feel it out from there.

The biggest problem for me is actually remembering the times and then being there on time. But I guess this will improve as soon as I'm more comfortable with the maps, strafejumping and general knowledge of my opponent's location, so I won't have to waste time and braincycles on that. :)

A suggestion is to talk out loud the numbers, following a fixed order. I go by mega, red pairs, and repeat the numbers out loud. It does not matter if red spawns first, just repeat the numbers. By doing so, you should not mess up what spawns when.

Additionally, whenever you pick up the item in time but are busy fighting, you can delay the computation. Keep saying the old number and as soon as the fight is over and you got concentration to compute, substitute the number with the new value.

Don't want to sound like an ass now, but didn't you learn that kind of stuff in elementary school?

u dont wanna sound like an ass? cant u tell the difference, or are u just too much of an ass to care? if u dont want to sound like an ass, but still are aware of u doing it... oh my god theres 2 people living inside yur body

don't wanna sound like an ass but the truth is harsh

A huge wall of text to teach you how to add 25 (and maybe subtract 60 afterwards) to a number between 0 and 60? How fucking dumb are the youth of today getting that one needs a written guide for it?

- "I'll see you in 25 minutes."
- *looks at watch after some time* "FUCKKKKKKKKKKKK WHEN IS THAT"

Well it actually is hard for some people to time two items on the second while they are playing. Hence the advice could be helpful. Not really a huge flaw if u ask me. Others struggle with languages or can't juggle a football more than 10 times etc.

Ofc it is hard to time two items on the second while playing. Though not because adding 2 numbers is difficult but keeping them in mind / building your game around them while being under heavy pressure / focused on aiming etc is. The math (or rather: calculation) part is trivial and should be learned-by-doing quite easily.

Agreed

It is more difficult to me to remember times, but not the count them. You dude forgot about memory

The thing becomes more complicated when you have to guess timings because you did not pick up the last item. This is what is really awesome :D

Timing in control and out of control is so much different I cannot stress it enough. However, I found phase two really helpful.

I can time an item easily but on maps like t7 timing red and mega can be quite stressful when you are out of control because you have to guesstimate timings more often as item-pickups are not visible.

Timing Red and MH on ztn on the other hand is ridiculously easy as you are bound to hear both picked up.

On aerowalk timing on mh is more important than red imho because you can always deal loads of damage when someone picks it up.

Toxicity is different too imho. I think as most of the frags happen at red, this is the more important item. Sure, mega health helps you to keep control but red timing is what you really need to ensure damage/control.

So timings are relative to maps and therefore you should alter your approach if you cannot time two items down to the second but rather position yourself accordingly.

way too much thinking for something too simple

I think we should encourage more detailed guides like this though. It isn't truly necessary and probably sounds more tedious to us than it would to a new player. As quake players we do a lot of complex skilled shit that a newb wouldn't know how to do. I wish there were a bunch of guides to teach me everything before I started playing, or at least let me know about things.

i consider myself a new player and I truly believe that's there's really not much else to timing than adding or taking 25/35 from the time, you don't need no fancy techniques to do that, do you?

like
35 Second Mega Health Respawn
1) Mega Health taken at :11
2) 11 - 36 (armor calculation)
3) 36 + 10 = 46 (add 10)
4) Mega Health respawns at :46

1) Mega Health taken at :49
2) 49 - 14 (armor calculation)
3) 14 + 10 = 24 (add 10)
4) Mega Health respawns at :24

really?
are u kidding me?
you're doing 2 or 3 sums instead of just 1 simple sum

if you really want an 'easy' technique, just +30 whatever number it is and -5 or +5 depending on if it's armor or health, but really... that's way too much hassle for anyone to time an item

I know you don't understand because you aren't familiar with this method, but it's a split second calculation because you learn 25 seconds as the base for all timing. You have all the armor respawn times memorized, so you immediately know when an item respawns as soon as you take it, and inadvertently you learn the same for Mega Health. This method would only take a matter of days to sufficiently time one item, and maybe a week to begin grasping timing any beyond that. It's fast in learning and fast in application. Commit to memory and it is less you have to think about while in a fight. Why are you all so oblivious?

i cant even try to memorize the +25 times because my brain insta-calculates, and i'm sure most ppl's brain does the same? unless someone doesn't know he has to add 25, he'll only memorize, that's why i think it's "useless" or "requires too much effort for something that can be done easily"

you should write a guide about something else, like how to circle items for instance, just not timing, cause there's nothing else to it than TIMING

Sure, a complete newb could try adding 25 and 35 for months and months and still be lost. A person who has been doing it for a long time might have memorized it from adding 25 and 35 so many times. If you memorize it first, you speed up the process and remove the need for any math. Glance at the timer for a split second, know the respawn time in a split second. That's the ultimate goal and my way is guaranteed faster for someone who wants to learn to time, especially multiple items. I'm a professional coach. You're a professional lan dodger. Your argument is invalid.

And if you neither hear nor pick up the item yourself how do you time the item then? How do you make sure that you turn up in time after the next mh? Calculating is always better and faster than any "timing" method if done correctly.
It sure helps a lot if you aren't that good at timing but it doesn't make it the better method.

You use positioning in game to see/hear when your opponent picks up items in duels. It has nothing to do with timing. Memory is faster than calculation. You guys are humorous.

if you know that mega was up, and from your opponent's position you may extrapolate the timing, ex, he was exiting there at 25 so he picked the mega 4secs earlier that is 21s, mega will be 56, will you memorize everything? doing the math on the fly is the best...

None of you understand? You don't have to do any math at all. Silly creatures. Do you know the numbers 1-10? Do you have to use math to figure out 6+2=8 if someone tells you to recall the number 8? Memory > calculation. The end.

ok, i like to do the math. you dont. do what you want, also, i am curious to know, how rapha, cooller and spartie do it.

I'll agree that it would be interesting for all the pros to share their personal methods.

I believe rapha said that he memorized all item times by heart with the help of little cards.

"i'm a professional coach"
"you're a professional lan dodger"

awesome arguments right there

my point is that the calculations are TOO DAMN SIMPLE FOR THE NEED OF MEMORY AND 100 goddamn brain exercises. capiche?

"Memory is faster than calculation" <- no

You're wrong. The end.

i even "might" be wrong, which i don't think i am, and none of the ppl i discussed this with thought, but oh well, i'll be "right" someday..
but you'll be stupid forever :/

Ignorance is bliss. Stay in school. Don't do drugs.

If you need me to explain that as well, the first statement was an assessment, while the second two are advice.

you're the one being ignorant here, you're not even trying to read, you're just going all apeshit "THAT'S NOT 'MY' METHOD, YOU'RE WRONG".
That said, sorry for replying to you.

You don't even know what ignorant means. You're so full of contradictions that it's difficult to even reply to you seriously.

Ignorant: Adjective, describing someone that's unaware. Often used as an insult.

Now that we got that out of the way, you're both right, and wrong. Both Memory and mathematical calculations is simulated through the brain, and therefore the initial speed of the both is actually the speed of your own neuroreactions. the speed is 20 million billion calculations per second.

Other than that, there's also things as hyperthymesia, which is photographic memory. Although you can remember everything, the speed is still the same, but the storage is higher.

Although the speed of both is initially the same, you can, with vigorous exercise, stimulate your brain into processing faster when given certain tasks. Therefore both examples can be used as a method. It's simply a matter of preferences and past experiences.


Now I know I'm 2 months after, but I was bored... les Gant est jeté!

I think ins and hello_w, you two are arguing about a nonsense.
Think about it a bit, do you really calculate while calculating?
I mean you really add 9 (nine) 7 (seven) times to get 63?
It's bullshit, you just learnt this pattern from a table. The same way you do not add 7 to 8, you just recall 15 from memory. If adding 8 to 27 you might find yourself adding 15 to 20, or knowing that it will end in 5 and adding one more to the first digit, or substracting 2 from 7 then adding it to 30. Wichever patterns are fixed in your brain. The 2+8=10 is definitely a pattern. You dont really add that up.
So lets say while "calculating" you just combine fixed memory elements and directions.

Soo:
When calculating for the first time mh for example, pickup being 47, you might go noobish with 5 sec increments, so you know that 47 is raughly 45, to 00 you have 15, take that from 35 you have 20. And if you still remember, that you took 2 secs from 47 you can add them, and that'll be 22. That calculation consists of lets say 4 memory recalls+ continuous repeats (checks) that you're not mistaking.

(If you thing you are really "calculating" without any memory recalls, try doing it in say the octal system, to not say the 7number system, it should be just as easy. Oh, the patterns don't work anymore? What patterns? Those from your memory?)

So you hope to be lucky enough to do that brainwork and memory recall combination while running an empty corridoor otherwise being distracted by the crazy lg tracking of the more experienced opponent.

Few games later youll find that the 03-38 pair almost burnt into your mind, and you do not have to combine your old calculation patterns, cos you just MEMORIZED a new one. Oops, accidentally you also memorized 47-22. Ye, its still related to 45-20, but is much faster now, maybe cos I just have to add 2 to 20, the rest is a recalled pattern.

CONCLUSION:
"Calculating" is combining certain memorized patterns after certain memorized rules. The more the patterns and the fewer the combinations, the faster the calculation. If learning all numbers, no more operations needed. You can use the spare power to relate between the items. So if you want to be a pro, just learn it, and save time. Or to put it other way try to fit these 60 patterns in your pattern set.

This is close to reality:
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...tems/page3

Cheers!

dude, this is a one year old thread. why did u bring it up? :D

Because INSisted he is calculating as if his memory wasn't involved at all, and that memorizing all numbers wouldn't come anyway after the pro amount of practice.

you're awere theres a slight chance its czm fake account?




:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

no, czm actually has a brain and wouldn't be this stupid with his arguments, i'm sure of it lol

from a ex math nerd point of view, this guy found the way how to teach ppl adding number 25 to any number from <0;59> ...

thats stupid, cause every singe mofo that graduated basic school knows how to add numbers much bigger, but on the other hand, if u were to teach 6 years old guy how to time item in quake - this would be the way to do it...

ps. he was right, you are lan dodger :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

how am i a lan dodger if i've been to shitloads? just missed dh :[

you couldn't go to DHW because of bad timing.

Maybe not for you, but many people need some few secs to add the numbers especially if the 25/35 is added to something uneven close to 60 like 47. For those it is very beneficial to just remember every time because then he/she is spared the hassle and can focus on what is happening 100%.

It might take some time to remember every times, sure, and it might be annoying to learn but as soon as it is learned these players will be so much better off.

Props for the effort.

As many have said, I think the actual number computation is not the problem.

The difficulty comes from:
- Doing it while lacking concentration (as you focus on other things)
- Make sure you do not forget the numbers, mess up the order
- Knowing how to use this knowledge properly
- Choosing what items to time depending on who is in control
- Guessing timing for unknown items pickups.

I think a guide should focus on these things.

Make a guide that relates to such things. Theory in item timing is different from efficient methods to time items, and another potential guide to be written.

That's what I tried to do here. I'm eager to learn more and improve the guide in the future.

Quite right. Learning the numbers is only 10% of timing. Putting those numbers to use is the really difficult part.

lol i just +35 or 25 to current time

am i stupid?

No. One should use what they are most comfortable with.

This^

I'm just +ing the shit and the result comes out of my head. I only have to remember two numbers. Is that hard for you lazy nerds...? This can't be hard for a normal, healthy man. And no one needs to read a whole articles to learn adding numbers.
It's simplier than anything else.

and grind this

Yes. 10 minutes per day, every day.

why the hell is everyone being butthurt about this post? Even if I already know this it was interesting and really well-organized. Also, people saying 'LOL HOWW DO KIDS NOT KNOW HOW TO ADD 25?', did you not read the post? It's not about adding, it's about memorizing the times and having some neat tricks to make that process easier on the player.

the only thing I disagreed with in the entire thing was "Prioritize the respawn order. Whichever is first to respawn should be the first you think, followed by the latter" - instead of this I personally always repeat the RA time in my head before MH, even if MH is coming up first. that way I don't have to be mentally switching the two back and forth. but that's just preference I guess.

Only in Quake.

disagreeing != being butthurt
fyi

Good job, a decent contribution.

Sure, adding 25 is easy, but having every interval from 0-59 memorized is a lot better. I created some tools a while ago to help with the memorization.
http://deadmen.us/quake-timers.html
http://deadmen.us/quake-time-test.html

The guide is well explained and spreding the knowledge is allways good.
I use my method which is simpler to me but maybe not to others.
If you give it a thought and think about it for few minutes it will surely be logical, so here is the explanation.


xx:xx => time
xP:Ax =>
- P is powerup or depending on the map mega.
- A is armor or depending on the map mega.

When timing A-variable i just calculate +2 (armor) or +3(megahealth and sometimes health bars of 50value)

When timing P-variable i just calculate +1 (some megahealths) or +2(powerups)

Y U NO TIME +25 or 35?
When I see that the time is allready on the screen I know that there is still 5 second window to pick it or leave it and it's much easier to calculate round numbers in intense situations then overthinking did I miss it, did I miss it?? was it 7 or 6 maybe 2or3 ??
Damn....

What if you miss and don't pick up the item?
MISS ALL THE ITEMS !!! No don't miss all the items :))
So....If I miss the armor I will just add +3 to the timer and the results will still be as 25+25
If it's mega I will repeat the same process but with +4 with the same end result of 35+35.

Peace and Respect.

NOW WAIT JUST ONE DARN COTTONPICKIN' MINUTE.

I thought 5, 25 and 50 health bubbles spawn in 30 second intervals?

Unbreakable rule is set timer to up? Rofl

99 percent of ppl find adding easier than subtraction

When you're counting in seconds though, it wraps around at 60. So with the clock counting down, the actual arithmetic is often an addition (unless you want to do two sums, an addition and then a - 60), and vice-versa

Truth be told, most experts don't rely on math as much as the people talking in this thread. They do it by knowing routes. They know they can get to Point A to B and B to C before an item spawns. And by giving themself's a short buffer for combat, regenerating health and such can 'feel' their way to spawns because the window is so small.

Example would be on The Campgrounds. If you can start at YA, get to bridge, jump to Rail, and make it to RA in say 15 seconds, this gives you 10 seconds for health and item pickup, not to mention you want to have superior positioning over your opponent who is going to be trying to time it down to the second. This makes him predictable and gives you an advantage in trying to get that first shot off because you've got better positioning over them.