seriously? :D

hf getting banned again cheetah

lol

lol

lol

lol

lol

lol

ccccccccccombobreakerrrr

fu

fu

fu

fu

ownd ^^

FU

Hate people who do this

Hate people who do this.

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREEAAAAKKKKKAAAAAH'

lol

lol

lol

r_shownormals 1 plz

why u ruin it

What is next? ZeroQL hosts an online tournament?

What would be wrong with that?

well he cheat make video cheat too frag make from online so online bad

*instagib*

inb4 accidentally cheats on stream

gl

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What did you expect really?

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stream is offline

sAviOr

ok guy. im 1 inch away from going to poland and fuckin curb stomping you for this comment.

7 - -1 vs sz *ragequit* "i just got fucking mad" (c) Lucky
24 - 8 vs sz *ragequit* *Stream offline* (c) Lucky

This is what happens, zhu, when you aren't "Lucky".

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and back to the lols again

lol

lol

lol

lol

lol

lol I say old chap.

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trololololl

zhu how did u get unbanned anyways?

lmao@unbanned

I don't know, he's a total ass for cheating, but I enjoy some occasional streams.

Good. The more streams the better.

no honor..

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u have set 60fps on xsplit? well ofc u have but i still ask :D

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:DDD

I'll deffo watch the stream out of curiosity, altho i have tons of work to do :(

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why is this guy allowed to compete? :/

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in this fear my aim movie? debatable, and even if: you cheated in a tournament final, strenx may or may not have cheated in some random pub when he was 12

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for me =))

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if I win a zotac, I will donate 5000 euro to another tournament

no, the moral is not the same. a child doesnt deserve the same punishment as an adult for the same crime. you wouldnt send a child to prison would you?

didnt linkin orso got caught into some odd aiasing thingy in a nations cup a few years ago ? I don't recall if it was linkin though but I remember that that player didnt get into so much trouble although it was clearly lame and during an 'important' tournament (as in not a pub :p)

if linkin reads this: sry if I was mistaken, you know I like you, I am not trying to fuckyou or something, just wondering if anyone remembers who was involved in that! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS03DNo0pH8

i mean, its some sort of macro-script, but i know that cypher used to have "+moveup; +attack" binded to "x". at most i would disqualify his team, depending on what the rules said before the incident

peeps consider that cypher bind illegal?

dont know. both are macro scripts so both should be illegal, but some tournaments might allow it

hmm, what means macro script? xD

back when i was trying out configs, i liked cypher's rj bind thing, and ive kept it since. but if its considered not2kewl, mesa will press two buttons :c

macro = clicking 1 buttom thats triggers multiple actions. not sure if thats the absolute correct description when it comes to scripts etc., but im using the words as i think its used in starcraft/warcraft etc :Dd

i mean, id obviously allows it, but i would clear it with tournament admins if u are gonna compete. i dont think anyone would mind you using it in pubs, since its so meaningless. but then again, if you're gonna allow a simple macro like that, should u allow scripts similar to link1ns?

if you're worried you'll upset people, i suggest u dont use it =)

he aliased so that he could play for team austria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwtcALhDuuA
this is the reason why strenx is considered to have cheated? doubt it's cheats, he aimed just like he does now, nothing special...

And about my little past: Cheating was the biggest mistake of my life and I deeply regret it, and wont ever be involved with anything like it again. Not trying to make excuses for you guys, im just saying how it is.

AHAHHA

BIGGEST MISTAKE OF YOUR LIFE :DDDDDDDDd

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if cheating in an online game is the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life you've really got to reassess your priorities in life.

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Serious about this game?

It'd be understandable if it was starcraft 2 or LoL where devoting your priorities to competitive gaming is actually a viable way of earning money


but for fuck sakes get your shit together, your attitude is all wrong

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i find it hard to believe that your life is fine if cheating in an online game is the biggest mistake of your life.

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he must have 2 harvard phds, earn millions every year without having worked once and go out with 3 supermodels.

so it's about half what jamerio pretends he did.

nice edit.

getting caught, not the cheating part ..8DD

fuck off cheater for atleast 2 years. then come back and cry for mercy. not after 2 months..

So, who's gonna report him and get him banned again?

do the honours

B A N
A
N

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If Zhu and ZeRoQL can play again, does that mean I and fragma can? :(

zeroql playing again? i thought dsm was banned.

New account, :(

u keep awfully updated for someone whos not playing :I

Well, maybe so, but I'm not the one whos posting a livestream and not even getting banned for it.

trying to redirect focus somewhere else, huh :D

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i'm not bothered about it, i just want the same, to be unbanned. ofcourse i regret it too, and people think its only regret because we got caught, but i even stopped using it before i got caught and had no intention of going back to it, but whatever, GG

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guys. You cheater, you are not 9 year old kids (hope so). So be a man, TAKE RESPOSABILITY! Community not hating you, but you need to be punished. Time is your friend , come later!

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you're just an idiot, no wonder you cheated.

lol

lolx2

(quite dumb to reply so insultingly to a mature and favorable post made by a known high-level dueler, since you seem to put effort in looking repentant)

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better then me :DDDDDDDDD ok you are 9 year old. sorry :DDDDD

you don't even belong to the cool cheaters

ty t1e, you would know all about that

you 4 should play tdm together

yea, we will

have some pride for yourself cheating faggot

If he's gonna make a troll attempt, I'm gonna make one right back, what the fuck do you expect?

I think streaming your games is the best way to show the community that you are still good without cheats.

According to streams he isn't good at all :D

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elo points really matter a lot dont they

yes ;D

:( i dont even have 1800 elo points, i should tierslum more :@

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where did u pick that from?

if i had something to say to you, i'd tell it to ur face


oh and since u seem so interested: lucky W%: 76% ts%: 21

heh I made an experiment like that a few months ago, to see if I could get 1700 rating within 1 day.
http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/zoomrailer

ok, so if you're so good without cheats, why did you? "BECAUSE YOU WERE BORED OF THE GAME"?

... you're a shameful, horrible person

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But i would probably 40-0 u on any map

... you're a shameful, horrible person

and still, while being so much better than me, im fine not using cheats. do u honestly think i care if you're better than me? :D you could be the worlds best and i still wouldnt respect you

:spell-check:

And I have yet to see an answe, so have about letting us know. Otherwise you make fuck all sense.

Cheaters should not let back to the community! What do you guys think, they play every day on alternate accounts. There is no real punishment for cheating besides complete exile. The minute when the likes of this zhu, lithxiv, zeroql, sombra etc being let back to the community you can start to shut down every online competition one by one! Start thinking!

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I can't find of any reasonable excuse to use a cheat in quake, or any other game for that matter, so I cant defend his actions in the past, and i think it was wrong, but contrary to popular belief, cheating in an online game would appear nothing but a trifle in the real world.
That being said, I think a lifetime ban is a bit harsh and that people eventually deserves a second chance, especially since he's now streaming as an attempt to clear his name a bit by showing that he really is done with cheating.

I do however think his reputation is forever ruined, and rightfully so, but the only way to move from here is forward and even while not playing for half a year he puts up decent performances in duel (while his main gametypes are TDM&CTF and im sure alot of ppl would enjoy and maybe learn a thing or two from watching)

This matter is up to the guys at ID tho, as he did violate their terms of usage.

This matter is up to the guys at ID tho, as he did violate their terms of usage.

+ http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/zhu_


im sry, i just cant understand you. in the first part of your comment you talk about giving him a 2nd chance, while in the later part you support id's choice to ban him.

do you want him to be banned or not? i dont get it

im sry, i just cant understand you. in the first part of your comment you talk about giving him a 2nd chance, while in the later part you support id's choice to ban him.

where do you read anything about supporting ids choice? he is simply acknowledging that it is their decision in the end, not ours.

no, he doesnt acknowledge anything. his main account is still banned, something hes well aware of, yet hes currently playing with him.

so tell me, what does he acknowledge? i made it very clear that i didnt understand him, so please go ahead and try to explain it =)))))

but contrary to popular belief, cheating in an online game would appear nothing but a trifle in the real world.

whats the point? sure in real life it does not really matter. but we are talking about consequences concerning a cheaters future with the game and not more.

not playing for half a year? i saw him add in playquake many times before, and i'm sure he hasn't stopped playing at any point. Maybe after a year or 2 years its cool to give it a shot, not 2 months.

He surely should not be allowed in any cup at this point whether it's streamed or not, if it's ok to just play after cheating 2 months ago. Then what's the punishment?

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"I stopped cheating cause it was boring."

Same reason you started. Just can't lol enough.

totally agree with what you just said. well put.

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completely agree.

tiebreaker game just shortly before he was banned in a prize-tournament: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52330788/act-xt.JPG

not like i massively care but he shouldnt be allowed to play in any tournament before reliable anticheat and him streaming his game. even then humanized aimbot is hard to detect. its even worse when he actually has some skills so every good shot is under the doubt of hacking.

your + list is funny as fuck btw, hackers and a guy who seems to be close friends with over half the high level hackers in ql :DDD

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i dont 'worry' about it really, but yeah theres a lot of people who could be cheaters. however this thread isnt about them, its about you.

Bans are meant to be for life. Accepting banned players in tournaments is an exception, which means they can only be allowed to participate in very qualified cases (we more or less like zhu so why not), putting special attention on them since one cheater ruins the whole tournament for everyone (streaming matches), and after a period of time, which is the purpose of banning someone and that's not been discussed yet.

IMHO cheaters should be banned from playing tournaments for at least 2 years. A ban is a punishment after all, and also that period of time serves as a warning for players thinking about cheating.
Maybe it could be one year considering that we don't know how much QL is going to last, but it can't be after a mere 7 months like zhu, or rather in the same month he started playing again.

This is extensive to globally known and proven cheaters as well, which are blatant cheaters that were exposed on this site on any of the several threads made about them, and that weren't banned because of Ordus not doing his work.

and humanized aimbots are pretty easy to detect. Those still constantly follow the opponents and do weird flicks, but just a bit more smoothly.

don't think lifetime ban is harsh. everyone who cheats online knows he'll be banned if they caught him. he did cheat, CSI:QL caught him, a bs cry mimi regret text and finish? hopefully no!

and why does the fact that he streams !some! of his matches proof that he doesn't cheat anymore? think about the fact cheating in not streamed matches and no cheats in streamed matches to claim no cheats at all like: look my VODs i streamed no cheats.

anyway i liked zhu but cheater is cheater and everyone should be treated the same and permanent way and this is lifetime ban imo.

I agree with you.

I dont think its harsh at all, He knew about a ban before he cheated. He may blame himself.
Streaming his games is some kind of proof of not cheating? lol!
For those who thinks its harsh for perm ban and says that everyone is worth a second chance. You may look at other games that bans are temporary and are often 12months/ sometimes perm banned at 120months or if returning while hes being banned he may get a further banned. In this case he returned after barely 6months and is playing.
While QL doesnt have an anticheat i cant see anything then lifetime ban

also a ban in an online game would appear nothing but a trifle in the real world

cheating in an online game would appear nothing but a trifle in the real world.

So would being banned from an online game. This is irrelevant.

That being said, I think a lifetime ban is a bit harsh and that people eventually deserves a second chance, especially since he's now streaming as an attempt to clear his name a bit by showing that he really is done with cheating.

If we have a light sentence for cheating, it merely empowers cheaters to evaluate the risk vs reward. If you want to send a message, the punishment needs to be bad enough that nobody wants to do it.

If you can just stream some games to try to make up for it, every cheater will just do this. It shouldn't be some arbitrary loss of standing that you just have to grind, it should be a punishment, and it should be with the intent to make the community a better place.

What if you stream every game?

Anyone who cheated could do the same. It's not like people will watch every single game, anyway, and will eventually lose interest entirely. It's not about preventing the guy from cheating again, it's about stopping future cheaters from ever wanting to do it to begin with.

This is simply not true. Making sentencing harsher has never proven to be an effective detergent. No, good sir, we need to work on general attitudes and stuff. Banning things is rarely, if ever, a good idea.

Stop protecting your friend.

Stop posting one liners.

lolmaoroflgoggles - who cares about some shitters stream?

Fine, who's next? Fragma? One time cheater, all time cheater!

Let's get back on topic:

lol

lol

lol

lol

c-c-c-combo breaker

:o

Yuka will set up a new stream soon.

or even better, anyone who wants to compete online must have stream

But my upload is too slow :s

obvious hacker excuse, git out!!!

:(dangit

lol

After reading this topic: maybe if you want people to give you a second shot, you should learn some fucking humility and respect, huh? Coz you're kind of an asshole and that doesn't help.

funny how high lvl euros get caught cheating, but the only person that ppl care about in NA that gets caught is xhilerate, rofl

NA cheaters > euro cheaters

The only actual high level player (with decent LAN performances) was ZeroQL, everyone else was mediocre and/or online only.
Plus, ZeroQL made it painfully obvious by hitting >80% rail against players which are better than him. So you're not really making a valid point.

he was just trying out stuff

1. I didn't imply otherwise. Actually, saying that he made it painfully obvious would even conform with the idea that the he was only trying it out. So why do you have to point it out?

2. Why are you so sure? I don't believe it because a) he didn't reveal the identity of his 'friend' who supposedly wanted him to beta-test the aimbot and b) he denied using a wallhack in a really fishy way.

sorta meant it in a ironic way but I think I did not convey that message. "just trying it out" does not justify cheating at all but because he made it so obvious it feels like he wanted people to know he cheats. Kinda like jaz did, imho.

I have the feeling when you cheat you try to increase the level of cheats more and more because you notice you get better with the cheats at hand. so I think it is a natural developement to just go apeshit at some point and blow everything up because the cheater is a weak, pathetic and emotionally crippled human being.

woops, went off-topic a bit.

Alright, better mark your irony next time then.

lol

Regarding the ban from cups - anything less than a year, considering he cheated and he knew what would happen if he got caught, is absurd.

Do i wish zhu never cheated? of course. I thought he was a pretty good player but he crossed the line and these are now my thoughts:

* After we knew ourselves Zhu was cheating, he then went on to cheat in both tdm and ctf leagues for about 2 months until we finally were able to get a decent video out to prove it 100% conclusively.

* If Zhu's ban was removed, it would be totally "paving the way" for all the other cheaters to return, then it surely doesn't take a genius to work out that it'd be absolutely suicide for the competitive scene.

* Anyone even suggesting any busted Quakelive cheaters have their ban removed are either having their opinion clouded by friendship which in a way is very understandable, or have absolutely no idea how hard it is to 100% conclusively prove someone is cheating in the first place.

Lets just think hypothetically for a second. Can you imagine playing in an official TDM/CTF game next month against a previously busted cheater? whos knowing where you are all the damn time but IDsoftware + the community had accepted them back and they're now just being far far more cautious this time around to a level which while dodgy as hell, would pretty much never be 100% provable.

I think some of them would find it really funny that they're going around "owning" and it can't be 100% conclusively proved. You'd just feel like quitting Quakelive right after the game tbh.

I would never play against cheaters even if they stream it or send out demos after the game...

Same, would just refuse to play them entirely, even if that meant being dq'd by admins retarded enough to let them play again.

but most of the cheaters would never even touch one again if they got their ban removed, although nobody would trust us ofcourse, and the reputation would be forever lost. and also, if they did get their ban removed they wouldnt be playing official games would they, isnt it like a 2year ban from leagues

but most of the cheaters would never even touch one again if they got their ban removed, although nobody would trust us ofcourse, and the reputation would be forever lost.

This just doesn't make any sense.

When you accept that your reputation is already forever lost, you have an even bigger incentive to lie to the community and hack again.

That's because not hacking won't improve your reputation (remember that it's forever lost!) and hacking again can't possibly make your situation any worse: You either don't get caught (-> cool) or you get caught and have still the ruined reputation you used to have (-> whatever).

Ok, i should have put that on another sentence, i just mentioned the reputation lost because thats pretty much a punishment in itself imo

Yep, and as I've pointed out, it's a punishment that actually encourages you to cheat again when given the possibility. Seems like you don't disagree. :)

edit: Typo.

sure, im not disagreeing, but i for one if i ever got my ban removed would never consider even downloading a cheat again even with no reputation left

So you are saying: "If the community let me play again but still didn't respect me, I would feel encouraged to cheat again... But I wouldn't do it, believe me!"

Hehe, cool.

why would i feel encouraged to cheat again, i never said that, i agreed with it in general for most cheaters

Oh look, it's the classic 'I didn't write what I wrote' excuse. You agreed that the punishment you got encourages cheating again. Don't pretend like you didn't.
I'm outta here. ;)

Do you think that punishment which doesn't encourage rehabilitation is the right way to do it?

Why should cheaters be punished in a way that urges them to come back?

I'd say when Quake5 comes (or 2GD's game maybe?), cheaters might have a decent chance of getting back into the (competitive) community without everyone refusing to play against them.

And I think that's all they can ask for, because due to the lack of anti-cheat system, the competitive QL scene is entirely built on trust and a cheating showoff just won't regain trust that easily.

that might be true for people who cheated because of curiousity, but zhu? he cheated to win a tournament, i would say the odds of him using again are higher.

well, i and fragma both cheated because "paranoia got the better of us", atleast in tdmpickup anyways, it felt like everyone was cheating when we played, we didnt use it because we wanted to, and we also didnt use it to fit into the crowd or something, we just used it because it was getting so frustrating to constantly feel like we were getting beaten by cheaters every game.
and i also got called a douche for accusing people of cheating while cheating, this doesnt make me a douche, it just makes it more likely that the person i was accusing was actually cheating.
even punkbuster would have stopped atleast some of this shit, and this would have never happened if there was an actual working anti-cheat

And that's why you played with cheats against players like Q50... Oh wait, this doesn't make any sense, either.

that was the biggest mistake ever, the game against q50 was the first time we used it, straight after downloading, hence why it was so blatantly obvious, i dont even know why we played that

how fucking dumb are u? i just have to ask, cuz thats the most moronic story i have ever heard

seems im very dumb, since thats the reason i started cheating

I'm sorry but is this really an excuse? I'm very paranoid too, yet never taught of cheating myself. How can that be?

You can say anything, there is no excuse to prove different that you're a walking pile of shit with no morals, respect for the game or for whom you play with. End of Story.

And also looking at your profile, you are 21 years old, and not 12. Meaning that you are fully responsible for your acts. It's not like you've been misguided, influenced or forced by anyone, it was your decision and at your age even the following circumstances would not release responsibility on your side.

And this all would have never happened if there would be a working anti-cheat? I just can't decide if you are a retard, or you think every else here is retarded. It would have never happened on the first place, if you wouldnt be a rat...

Well, first off, I'm not 21 or 12 and its actually not the game i disrespect, its the players on the game, i loved playing quake, especially when it felt clean, like back in q3. It might not be an excuse, but its the only reason i started using it, no matter what anyone else thinks, some people are weaker than others.

No, the reason you started using it is your ill-mannered personality.

i actually have a really nice personality, just because i cheated in a game doesnt make me a bad person or an asshole

i actually have a really nice personality, just because i cheated in a game doesnt make me a bad person or an asshole

Replying, so you cant delete later on. Brilliant.

I wont delete this, because there is no need to, everything i've said is true. This is just showing how much of an "ill-mannered" person you are, assuming i'll delete this. But whatever, time to go play some quake, LOL not really, im banned

Oh look, a cheater with dignitiy! :D

Calling me out, in the lights of you're eqvivalent of a rat, or a worm, some thick skin mate...

The more you reply, the more reason you provide why rats should never let back.

I've written nothing which should give anyone a reason not to let "rats" back in the game, especially if they implement an anti-cheat. The only thing i've done is explain why I cheated, and the fact that not all cheaters are dicks. The only thing you have done is show how ignorant Hungarians actually are. Just stop this pointless conversation now, thanks.

Aha =)

Cos i represent here all members of my nation. I'm Hungary's Official Representative =)

Should i ripost here with im a bit worried for England, learning that education hit such low level, someone despite passed the age of 21, having the reasoning skills of a 9 year old?

The problem is, i only see a rat, having a mental breakdown.

But here's my little more detailed reply, and my last post in this topic, hoping it will serve as some educational value for other readers. Not for you, you are hopeless...

I've written nothing which should give anyone a reason not to let "rats" back in the game, especially if they implement an anti-cheat.

Your existense is the prime example, you dont have to write anything. You incapable to see that never, any circumstance can make cheating justified. Thus far, letting you back (and the other rats, who probably also see themselves as victims of their enviroment) will only result in cheating again at the minute another circumstance appears that you judge unjusticeful toward yourself.

The only thing i've done is explain why I cheated

The only thing you have done is providing excuses, trying to elevate the responsibility to things outside of your control.

and the fact that not all cheaters are dicks.

Perhaps. When you and your friends doing it, you are not dickheads. The guys cheated against you... Now those are dickheads. They are evil too, they persuaded you to share their sins... Crystal clear.

Okay then, since those are all excuses, you expect me to say "I CHEATED BECAUSE I WANTED TO AND NOW I DONT WANT TO, HERP DA DERP". You don't know shit, you're probably just one of those guys who sits in ESR talking shit about the game and its players, but doesn't actually play the game, just like scowl.

I play the game every day, unlike you... Or well, just like you, unfortunately... Anyway, you can exarragate "your special case", trying to make it look like 2+2=4 would be a complex equation... The fact is, youre a cheater, there isnt any evidence you wouldnt cheat again, and while trying to defend yourself, you just proved my point.

As far as talking shit goes, im not the one who insulted the others nationality out of anger just because being mentally incapable to keep up with the discussion. Maybe take a look at your household first, rat.

Well, my household has nothing of relevence here, but okay. The "insult" on your nationality wasnt due to anger, it was just a mere mention of the ignorance of most hungarians, and it seems every hungarian on esr is exactly that.
And about the "evidence of not cheating again". You wouldn't need evidence if there was an actual working anti-cheat. It all comes down to the same thing, if there was an anti-cheat, I never would have cheated, and the fact that its a simple google search away from downloading a free working hack, doesnt make it any harder for ANYONE to download a hack.

So when you unable to convince someone to think otherwise than what the reality shows, you label them as "ignorant".

And well, regretting what you did, and trying to clear up your name instead of trying to convince others to see you as the victim of the circumstances (as you truly see yourself) would have been a start... Althought, if it would be up for me you could never play Quake again, but at least i hope you shed some light for people thinking rats may deserve a second chance... well this is why they dont.

And as for a "working anti-cheat", there is no such thing. There are precautions, some harder to circumvent than others. You'd find your way regardless if you'd see it as a justified act, it just happened you had an easy time googling it up in this case.

The thing is, the reason you wouldnt want me to play quake again is because its personal, not because i cheated, you just think im a dick, and its the same with everyone else. If they like the person they will play with them even if they did cheat, if they dont like the person, they'll report them. It would be the same for anyone, if one of your friends cheated and they came back, I'm sure you wouldnt tell anyone either right? Not that it matters.
I won't clear up my name in this community ever, there are far too many stubborn people.

Are you trolling right?

You not going to progress from the victim of circumstances to the hurted little boy dont you? If you looking for a new role, how about the cheater who takes responsibility?

Its not personal, as i dont know you as a person, im unable to judge, althought i must admit you didnt made yourself too sympathic bashing our nation, but lets just pretend it slipped out in the haste of the moment. I judge you as a player, which im able to do, based on your revelant playing history. There is one simple question: Do i want to play with someone who cheated in the past? No.

Yes, I did cheat, I know that, and I did attack your nation in the haste of the moment probably, yep. But I did say, if it was a friend of yours who cheated, would you still let him play and not tell anyone?

I dont befriend with untrustworthy people on the first place so its unlikely to happen. Also don't understand why are you whining, you playing all day wether youre allowed or not, unfortunately nothing stops you thanks to the free to play model. But no, if it would be my friend i wouldnt announce "yes this is a cheater" allover the place, especially if i see improvement in his personality and true regret for what he did.

Regardless, i would never allow him to participate in any kind of competition again, simply because it would ruin the principles of competition based on. The same as a sports career ends with a positive dopping test, a "progaming" career also must end with proven cheating.

Now enough of this incoherent babbling, and lets both get on with our wonderful lives. Farewell. o/

i have kind of an odd request, but i would like you to watch a criminal minds episode :DD watch episode 13 of the first season and compare it to lithxiv's story :D

lol

all this absurd "paving the way for cheaters" is so simpleminded.

Do you think anyone will want to cheat just because zhu has been given a second chance after 5-6 months away ?

I think there's more to it than the ban itself when you get caught cheating, it's the loss of credibility, the constant trolling on your cheating past, your whole "quake career" is torn in pieces.


If this second chance thingy has any impact on the number of cheaters it's probably minimal and insignificant.

Chances are that a good number of cheaters don't care that much about the community (if you respect your opponents, why would you be using cheats in the first place?...), so allowing them to play again only a little while after they've been spotted is such a dumb policy that I'm surprised anyone is suggesting it. If you can't see how lifting the ban so fast considerably lowers the penalty for cheating, you're either blinded by your friendship with Zhu or haven't really thought this through.

I think everybody deserves a second chance, not a third.

It's the same in real life really. If an incarcerated guy shows good intentions and promises to behave in society, he will be given a second chance with a shortened punishment and a close look on his activities.

I think the same should apply in quake (and not esports in general, i'm talking about quake here). To me you just sound like those people who would vote yes to the proposal of the reintroduction of the death sentence.

If you don't give zhu a second chance for instance, chances are about as great he comes cheating again as if he was given one (especially with the 1 employee id has and the absence of anticheat). Probably much greater I would say even.

It's so easy for zhu, fragma, lith or zeroql to cheat again and shit on all your faces since you won't give them a second chance. I think the fact they've not done it yet shows how much they mean it when they say they won't touch a cheat again.

I'm ready to believe it, if I'm proven wrong, fine, ban them again, this time forever, case closed. Just don't be as thick as a wall all the time about cheaters, for gods sake.

Just don't be as thick as a wall all the time about cheaters, for gods sake.

???

I'm sorry but this coming from someone playing in competitions just makes it more atrocious. It is clear that Zhu is you friend so you lobbying for him...

You can do nothing, absolutely nothing about cheating in QL. You are free to cheat, get banned and make a new account, than continue cheating. Except for competition players, they only have one chance, this is the incestive that stops everyone from cheating. The minute you give a second chance to the first guy, everyone else will be like "Hey why not cheat (in this particular final, or whatever competition)? This is my first chance, I make a few euros, if i get caught just gonna play on alt. accounts for a couple of months than come back and play clean".

Because if you give a second chance for someone, you have to give it to everyone else. As much as you'd like it "A second for Demon's friends, one chance for everyone else" is not working in the reality.

Now, the other problem is that whoever being featured in competitions intelligent enough to not cheat in the most blatant way. You'd have spend tens and hundreds of hours reviewing demos, probably multiple times. Who would do that? The admins, who by now probably consider QL the most meaningless game and would glad to drop it if it wasnt for its legacy? Personally, you'd have the time for this? Or just rely on CSIQL or someone else, you really expect them to spend hundreds of hours on senseless shit?

It's not just a second chance policy would probably raise the nr. of cheaters by a huge, it would also raise the level of paranoia (which is very high by standard) to a tremendous stage. Who would watch, takes notes, rewatch every single POV of every single map of the winning team? Noone.

People don't cheat because the reward don't match the risk and possible punishment.

I think there's more to it than the ban itself when you get caught cheating, it's the loss of credibility, the constant trolling on your cheating past, your whole "quake career" is torn in pieces.

And for this, yeah your friend already proven how big a punishment is this. I bet he cryed out of his eyes, couldnt sleep at night because he lost his internet credibility... He so ashamed of himself, he just come to this site and rub it to everyones face how he was a cheater, but dont worry now hes streaming etc... Wake up!

jaz for instance isnt a 'friend' of mine, nor were really lith or fragma, albeit ive known them from the quake scene for a long time. But I'm not making zhu a particular case, I'm making a general case on all the people who used to cheat and are looking for redemption and rehabilitation. It's not like you can keep them away from quake anyway either, so better give them that second chance they long for, they will know more than anyone else that if they cheat ever again they'll be dead in our minds forever.

You can keep them away from competitive quake, even if they bypass their bans from the game itself.

So all in all you'd allow everyone to cheat once. Bravo.

Yeah because I plan on cheating soon obviously.

You really do think people are going to cheat just because of that ?

No, they wont. I'm not gonna cheat because I know Id be given a second chance.

Yeah because I plan on cheating soon obviously.

You really do think people are going to cheat just because of that ?

No, they wont. I'm not gonna cheat because I know Id be given a second chance.

Well its really nice of you, but honestly, if you give a second chance, and especially if its spelled out loud both the nr. of cheaters and the extra work of reviewing games caused of paranoia will raise by a huge margin.

I don't know where I stand on this. As mentioned earlier, link1n has cheated more than once but he still plays. Even noctis cheated with him. Everyone is quite ready to "give them a second chance", but when it comes to hacks we aren't. Is that fair?

Well I certainly don't trust anyone who's cheated. However, if it was a friend of mine I bet I would be more forgiving... hard not to be.

They get that second chance already, after two years. Like Bored explained, it takes someone to work his ass off to expose the assholes who show an utter lack of respect for their opponents, the community and their unknowing teammates by cheating. There's absolutely no reason to suddenly welcome them back with open arms after a few months. The deterrent to cheating would also be much lower if they could come back that easily.

It's so easy for zhu, fragma, lith or zeroql to cheat again and shit on all your faces since you won't give them a second chance.

I don't get this. Why do you think this is easy?

because of:

1. No anticheat

2. No way to actually ban someone forever off a free-to-play game on the internet

So the only precaution and punishment remained is to ban them forever from competitive play, as its the only way reducing / preventing the damage theyd do.

What?
They can be banned from competitve matches by the admins of the leagues/cups. That's what matters.
Their chance of cheating in those matches is close to 0% when admins and teams try their best to prevent them from participating again.
In such a small community it's pretty hard to just come in with a random fake account without anyone getting suspicious.

How would this situation get any better when they were allowed to play again?
(You are saying it would be easy because they don't have a second chance. This still doesn't make any sense to me.)

Or do you care about them cheating in some random pub games? How exactly does this depend on whether or not they are given a second chance?

This.

[+]ed

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annoying isnt it...

squish ;o

.

y not? he knows better, since he has experience using them

Cheater call hit cheater? ROFLMAO

yes, hes a known cheater

u thought i was cheating, or still

he means someone else

We dont want you here.

gtfo

As I say,


Once a cheater always a cheater

No surprises to see friends of zhu posting for him to be allowed to compete. Like many have said above, if he/others were allowed back then it would be suicide for ID and without an active anti cheat other than Odrus and his questionable anti-cheat detection system, what chance has the competitive scene got? Can you imagine if any of these were ever allowed to compete again? Teams would be refusing to play against them and that really would be a sad day for Quake and finally the phrase "quake is dead" would probably be not far from true.

The game is already on its last legs, stop trying to put the final nail in the coffin by supporting, defending and making excuses for the people that deceived you and probably cheated against you not so long ago.

Exactly my thoughts

But you didn't have the capacity to formulate them on your own? I always had you pinned as an annoying little bugger. And besides, didn't you rage sell your computer recently? Stopped Quake? I believe that when you stay away for more than a few months.

Oh and btw, nice job playing under fake names.

shut the fuck up . I don´t like Zhu ,but ur even more retarded.

Do you really think i sold my computer because of quake ? I have 2 Mac computers at home . I Simply dont need it.

I'm going to try to not make a long post here, as there is nothing that has not already been said by most of the level headed people.

Zhu, trying to make it look like you're putting something good back into the game by offering to put money towards future tournaments (donating any zotac winnings) is quite a pathetic attempt in reality. Streaming yourself playing as well, what kind of token offerings are these?

You also say cheating was the worse decision of your life?
Can't tell if your taking the piss or serious.
If serious I would suggest you haven't done much living really.


Speaking as someone who cheated in Quakelive.

At the end of the day there will be a minority of people who may trust you again and yes you may play 100% legitimately.
But for the vast majority of people they will always have that nagging doubt about you and dis-trust, for that reason there is no way that a player should be welcomed back to participate within the community.

No amounts of posting comments stating you only cheated in one game or only for a few days should change the overall trend, once is enough.

As Raw has already said, without an active anticheat there is no safety net, allowing people back in would probably finish off what is a game that is already taking its last breathes.

The mature school of thought for those who have cheated is simple really, accept how people will feel about what you did and move on and don't go repeating the whole process over again.

a cheater is a cheater,no matter what happens.

Y'know, everything else aside, i really love those holier than thou crusaders that take a crude, generalized and extremely polarized approach to cheating and cheaters. The same kind of mentality manifesting in people who are too stubborn to realize they wedged the morality stick so far up their ass it's never coming out.

Boo hoo someone cheated, ban him and get the fuck over it. The implications are the same if you'd cheat in a game of monopoly (which i did countless times, unfortunately i don't have a demo to whip up a slow-mo utub flick with shitty dubstep music and shownormals), except instead of being called a dick and removed from the game, my mates would take me out back and shoot me in the head, following the logic flowing around here. I'm finding myself hating more the people who treat (ex)cheaters like hardened criminals guilty of unspeakable crimes and giving them shit every time they encounter one of "them" (regardless that each and every cheater is a completely different person who cheated under different circumstances and with different motivations), throwing slurs at them and flaunting their self perceived superiority for the other cool guys to see it, than the actual cheaters. Fuck off, it's getting annoying. You're talking to other human beings, who, yes did a big no-no, and should and are being punished for it, but you have to draw the line somewhere and balance the severity of the "crime" with your interactions. It's ridiculous.

non-pole rage infused addendum:

Chances are those other guys are full of shit as well, but is it really reason enough to behave like a bunch of idiots? Take a step back and think about what you're really shitting your pants about.

When all comes to all it's a juxtaposition of cheaters and non cheaters, where cheaters ultimately come out as the losers. Of course, this is true in real life as well, when they get busted, naturally.

What this means is basically it's a never ending battle between the extremes - seeing as there really is no middle grounds in it - I too want to be like "fuck him, he's banned, I've gotten the fuck over it", but the fact that we can not know what they are thinking, or how much they are (if at all) laughing at some of us for believing them when they're writing their bullshit excuses (as some of them really were), we're forced into not seeing the 'good' in people.
Throwing slurs at them, while obviously at least as childish as the lewd act of blaspheming the name of Quake with as much as the consideration of cheating, is a perfectly normal and, would you believe, rather rational reaction. Just like the rational reaction to being busted is saying "I'm sorry I made a big mistake I was depressed and bored with quake so I wanted to..." and so on.

It all boils down to human behavior and no one can at any time blame us for blaming them and ridiculing them for their cunt'y actions, or blame them for defending themselves with excuses.
Now we gotta make the best of it, improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, shit happens, I Ching, whatever, we got to roll with it, and let this play out.

In the end though I'm all for second chances, but much like anyone, seeing a busted cheater trolling his way around justifying his cheating just decreases the possibility of ever recieving one. Zhu, as I've witnessed it, has been one troll'y motherfucker, and in that regard I can't do anything but not give a single fuck.

You're right, of course, i just wish people would take a more moderate approach to the whole thing. My whole point being, not every cheater is a despicable scumbag, same as not every clean player is a terrific guy. You can't just throw a bunch of people into a bag and treat them equally, yet that's exactly what people are doing, and they're doing so in a very childish way, as you yourself noted. Is it really that rational and to be expected? I can understand being upset about it, but there are people here who didn't even play with Lith or Zhu, yet they're talking to both of them like they're complete pieces of shit that insulted their parents and took a dump on them. The difference being, Zhu is behaving like a chump, and Lith is trying his hardest not to get trolled. Or ZeroQL, possibly the nicest guy you could wish to meet in this community (save maybe for Memento Mori and the like), contributed a lot in different ways, gets treated like a child molester.

It's tiring. The more i learn about intricacies of internet interaction, the more i find it peculiar, disturbing and plain annoying.

you're making a mistake here. you're discussing moral implications while we're discussing practical implications concerning the specific case. there's a difference.

you wouldn't happen to be a lawyer, would you?

I am indeed. I work out of Mule & Mule offices located in the Warsaw village, my standard rate is three potatoes per day, i have my own transportation (cart) but require large quantities of ethanol for sustainable work over periods of time longer than 30 minutes. My personal assistant, Mr. Chuj, will take all your calls.

I only take on civil cases filed against scumbags; up to third degree name calling on game servers or chats, offhanded elitism, prejudice, inability to write one proper sentence in English, raging on the internet, being butthurt on the internet, being on the internet without probable cause, sharing of bestiality in digital form, aggravated assault and battery (voice comm only) and encouraging Vedic/Jamerio post duels.

My card:

8=======D

I see sarcasm isn't your strong suit ;-)

My strong suit is flannel.

That's good, i'm rather partial to nylon myself

Hey. I really like the initiative you bring to the community. I'm sure this is very profitable for Quake Live. I used to think you cheat, but then dem0n assured me you were pro and have never cheated, and that you're just being modest with the demo and admission. I can't wait to watch you on the big streams for DreamHack. GLGLHFHFHFHFHFHFHFFHFHAJSFHKnfiansfklnnaroflfmasfjagf

I'm going to post my 2 cents. People may not care about it, and I don't give a shit about other peoples opinion, so here it goes.

Zhu has indeed cheated. He got caught, and then banned. This was 6 months ago.

I am not saying that I condone any cheating at all, but first of all, it's a fucking game, and second of all, it's been 6 months and I think people should be able to get a second chance.

Now I know Zhu vaguely through internet. I've talked with him a few times on IRC, and this topic has been up for discussion. I know how much he regret cheating in the past, and he SHOULD regret it, it's an awful thing to do. (even though it's a fucking game)

nevertheless, most people deserves a second chance, especially when he takes these kinda precautions to clear his tainted name.

he cheats, steals and lies. ok, its been 6 months, during which hes been playing according to people in this thread, but lets trust him again.

good point, biased cunt. shut the fuck up.

I'm not biased at all. I don't have any personal connections to Zhu, except having spoken to him a few times in an IRC-channel.

If you think that I'm a biased cunt, that's your opinion, and specified above, I don't give shit about other peoples opinions at all.

Bear in mind also that I'm a former CB-admin and had a similar mindset to cheating as you have now. The difference is that I'm a bit older now and see things for what it is.

As long as he strive hard to clear his name, I have no problem with him playing again as long as he's clean and takes measures to make sure that it doesn't happen again. Even then though, it's up to ID. Should he get banned, I wouldn't get sad about it, nor would I be glad about it, since I'm objective, in contrast to you.

Let's keep the discussion civilized, shall we? You won't get anywhere spouting out groundless accusations and insults.

guy, he is banned. just because he is avoiding it doestn make it false.

talking about having a civilised conversation when you're denying a simple truth. ya ok

I'm not denying that he got banned. I'm just saying that if he plays the game again despite if he's banned or not, I don't have a personal problem with it as long as he takes counter-measures (like streaming) to prove that he now plays a clean game.

but id made their decision to ban him, and the ban is still there. why would you even say its up to id, when you obviously dont give a shit about their decision?

i mean, either you are in fact, denying that id banned him and now you're denying that you are denying it, or you are a liar.

you have to help me over here, im so confused

You have to stop with the insults, it's not helping your credibility at all, nor do you appear as an intelligent and civilized person. But you already know this, don't you?

First of all, I know that he was banned. He's eligible to play again for some reason. Why he's able to play again, which he is, I do not know, neither do I care. If ID decides to ban his current account as well, it's up to them.

Second of all, I have no problem with him playing again, if he takes counter-measures to prove that he's reformed, as stated above.

yes he was banned AND HE STILL IS. hes able to play again because HE IS AVOIDING THE FIRST BAN.

please, dont avoid these facts when you're saying its up to id to ban him or not. you cant simply plead to ignorace when i have informed you 2 times already.


so if id bans him again, and he dodges the ban for a 2nd (3rd, 4th and so on) time, would you still think hes allowed to play as long as he streams his games? he deserves the same punishment as any other cheater. if hes able to stream his games or not doesnt matter, hes still a cheater.

correction: He WAS cheating, now he's just a teenager playing video-games.

If he choose to circumvent his ban, it's not my problem, fault, concern or interest. If ID Software chooses to ban his new account as well, I don't have a problem with that either. However, I am of the opinion, the OPINION, that it's not a big deal, should they choose not to ban his current account. You might think so based on the prejudice and bias you're under, and your personal opinion regarding Zhu, and/or his past actions. That will have to stand for you. I personally have bigger issues in life than categorize and labeling people for past indiscretions and mistakes. That's just childish, but that's just my opinion.

Are we done here?

yeah, we're done. you're twisting facts to fit your personal opinion, and then __YOU__ are accusing me of speaking out of bias.

clearly, you have issued much deeper than what can be cured with a forum discussion.

and seriously, IM LABELING? you have called me stupid, uncivilised and childish just in the last 2 comments, only difference is, im not a fucking pussy about it.

fucking jamerio2

Never called you anything, stop with the twisting of facts... I merely pointed out that your actions deem you in a certain way. If that's true or not, I don't know and I never took anything for granted regarding it either.

The facts are there, I never questioned them either. I just said that should they ban his current account as well, I have no problem with it. If they choose not to, I have no problem with it. Is understanding that a problem for you?

yah, like i said, "difference is, im not a fucking pussy about it."

no, i dont understand you, its the first thing i told you and so far you have done nothing to clarify anything. you want to give him a second chance but u dont care if hes banned or not, at the same time you dont even think he is banned, just because hes found a way to avoid the first ban.

all you do is going on and on about these things, even tho i have never asked you, but you use these topics to avoid my real question: why you would ever claim its "up to id whether to ban him or not" when you obviously dont give a shit about their decision.

honestly, i cant even recall if you have admitted that he still is banned.



now, i know this is a wasted atempt at actually getting something out of you. you will simply dodge my real question and make suttle hint about me being pre-judgive, dumb, uncivilised or anything else you might come up with, only so that you can write something down without actaully answering any of my questions.

Because, whether you like it or not, it's their decision. As I specified, it's none of my concern what they choose to do. Neither am I that concerned with if he stays banned or not.

Stop arguing for the sake of arguing and get down to earth a bit.

I am willing to give everyone a second chance. If people GET a second chance or not, that's a different question, one I do not care for, or have an influence in. Regardless of my influence, I still have an opinion regarding things. I do not have to be in charge of anything to have an opinion. If that were the matter, the elections would be pretty damn boring.

In comment #276, the first thing I wrote was, and I quote: "I'm not denying that he got banned."

And don't assume that everything in this forum is aimed towards you. I do not remember asking you for an input at all. You chose to start tossing insults around without me even ASKING for your opinion regarding my post at all, so skip the whole "Without me even asking you" bullshit.

The first thing I said was that I don't give a shit about other peoples opinion. I'm sorry to say that you are categorized as "other people", and therefore your concern is something I could care less about.

Now move on.

inline img inc:

Please point out when I called you pre-judgive, dumb or uncivilized. Please also address what question you had that I did not answer, and I will answer it.

you will simply dodge my real question and make suttle hint about me being pre-judgive, dumb, uncivilised or anything else you might come up with: "And don't assume that everything in this forum is aimed towards you. I do not remember asking you for an input at all. You chose to start tossing insults around without me even ASKING for your opinion regarding my post at all, so skip the whole "Without me even asking you" bullshit."


question: why you would ever claim its "up to id whether to ban him or not" when you obviously dont give a shit about their decision?

unless you consider avoiding the ban the same as being unbanned, you have completely ignored that question for the last 5 comments.

Did I state I don't give a shit about their saying in their matter?
They have authority, I have an opinion. Clearly you must be able to understand that my word is not an universal law which the whole galaxy places its hope and trust on?

I agree with you. He was banned. He should be banned. I just stated that should he play even when he's banned, it's none of my concern. Neither is it my fault. Neither do I care. Should people be able to get a second chance? In my opinion, yes. Has he been given one? No, he circumvented his ban.

Do I find it a problem that he plays even if he's banned? Not really, but then again, I'm not in any position of authority, and cannot ban his current account. ID however has the mean to ban his account. If they do that, or not, I couldn't give less about.

Of course I agree with you, banned people should be banned. In this case however, one circumvents his ban, and take drastic measures to show people that he is not the same person as back then. It's a violation of the ToA, and that's not ok, looking at it from a matter of authority. His current infraction was also a terrible thing to do to the rest of the community, I know this, I'm not stupid, even if you want to believe that. I'm just willing to give people a second chance, and I, as a person, have no real problem with him playing again. I'm not talking for anyone else, nor is my words some form of divine truth. I'm talking for myself, in a personal opinion.


But as I said: I am not the one that banned him in the first place, I'm not the one circumventing the ban, and I'm not the one that has the means to ban his current account. Whether his current account gets banned or not, it's not up to me at all, and therefore, AND THEREFORE, I do not care.

If you got any other questions, please state them and I'll try to answer them to the best of my abilities. I'm not that great in expressing myself so there might be things you don't understand, or things that does not make sense. Please let me know, if that's the case, and I'll try to correct the mistakes I made.

Regards // Emil.

Your language use is fine, pretty damn good, actually! And you make very solid points throughout.

[+]ed

My language is probably understandable, but I am not good at expressing myself clearly. It usually causes misunderstandings. :)

I have the same problem but it's not just in english but also swedish :)

Good, then i'm not alone. :D

No, it's actually a big problem for me because people often don't understand me. Add to that my probable adhd diagnose, and you have a communication problem on your hands >:(

Damn it, you're the same as me... Can't be unique anymore. :( :D

And I'm a pale skinned scandi geek from south of Sweden, born in 85 :P Matrix much? :OOOOOOoooO

You must be fucking kidding me. :( tw1ns much?

Let's have a family reunion in the arena sometime xD

sounds like a plan. :D

pm ql nick :)

the same as here, without the 85

Done and done!

Please Zhu, make duel lesson.

Just tuned in. Three seconds of shouting, then a ragequit. Good stuff.

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your QL nick is "lucky" ?

You're not the same "Lucky" as the one that played in Q3 - PZZ* are you?

No way! Lucky was a well and deservedly known TDM player from the Netherlands, not a random swedish cheater...

lol ql

LOL QL

zxfx is zhu?

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KM (Betija) kickbanned him today from #tdmpickup saying it was zhu :o

He actually didn't say it was zhu.

Yea, technically he didn't say that but was pointing hard. Anyway, i think that Zhu can be allowed to play pickups (w/o cheats ofcourse), only should be banned from tournaments.

I think zhu should do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq8ulAsqX1g


MORE OFTEN

bahaha, how pathetic is that attentionwhore?

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He's happy about winning a game. OH NOEZ

a few posts above, zhu posted it himself, while nobody was caring, so some swedish "Anonymous" has to post it again. :D

Lucky is Zhu

or Zhu is (alltimes) Lucky :ASDAASSSSSSSDSAD

zxfx is not a strong dueller

There, he said it.

zhu neither

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good game
congratz
*fuck you*
/ragequit everything

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Have you apologized for shitting on every honest gamer out there? if so, where? I could go a few matches with you provided that you let someone I trust spec your pov and that I am satisfied with your explanation of the events surrounding your bad rep.

There's always someone on his stream, I think his cheating days are over.

The question is, can the community forgive him.

I would never deny anyone the chance to make up with their past. There just has to be a good way to discern if he is really changed. A face to face conversation included.

strong comeback to the scene brah, gl with ur cheating goals of 2012

I know he has read my response. I won't be playing with him, lets say :) Don't see you at lan :)

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Reply to #295 instead for dodging. Makes you look stupid when you don't because we all know you are on this thread like white on rice.

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Accept friend requests on esr/quakelive.com!

Video in the making.

Zhu told me to FO last night when I asked him to help me pick a good video software.

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That's honest of you. I'm not gonna FO though, as long as you are here, I will be around to pester you. Live with it. Just as we honest players have to live with the fact that you are allowed to play and post.

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No, rather be here pestering you.

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I never claimed that. Assuming things again. This is you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc

Always defensive, always mean to people, always looking only to your own interests, that's you on esr. You might be perfectly good guy IRL, that I say nothing about.

"Assumption is the mother of all fuckups"

(c)

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I tried to befriend you, yes, but you told me to FO. Nothing I do is secret. That's not why you have a gripe with me because this happened last night. Try again.

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