this is a first

ASUS VH236H
ASUS VH236HL-P

Both are great, although they might be slighty out of your budget.

Just curious, do you run it on 75Hz FullHD?, or could you link a reference please?

yes. asus rocks. Love mine

I suggested a Benq monitor here, but I just deleted:p.. save up some money and by a proper monitor, you won't regret:)

you could almost get a 120hz lcd for that money...

Or IPS panel :P

IPS it's not really a choice of Quakers (yet), it's perfect for bf3 or cod shit but we are a rare kind:p

I regularly play QW @77Hz on IPS monitors btw (that's the maximum Hz what a normally priced IPS can do today), and it feels really good, it's not annoying at all, but it's not anything like at 144Hz on CRT for sure:)

hmm, any recommendation on a 77hz ips? :o

or are they all pretty good and I should just be looking for ones with lowish input lag?

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?s=cbe50d486...ostcount=2

That's a good start but the thing is, there are probably many others that can do it as well... and many that can't or will skip frames.
Very few people actually care enough to try and use custom timings on their monitors (by making a custom resolution in the GPU's control panel). Also, you need to make a custom EDID when you're on 7 otherwise you'll most likely have a lot of games that will revert back to 60hz.

But if you look at the ISPs on that list, only the 2209wa or perhaps the u2311h is "OK" for gaming inputlag-wise, which both can do 77Hz btw. The rest has too high input lag (like the LG or the NEC has 16ms average with peaks above 30ms).
But both are also discontinued ofc, and cleverly replaced with cheaper white-led horrors with lesser color gamut and worse uniformity just because they can label it as "LED" for the COD-kids:(

The LG IPS236 has 0 input lag (as measured by prad.de) but no overdrive so it is a bit blurry, while the 226 has overdrive and apparently a similar input lag. That's the one I use.

However they are both very prone to backlight bleed if you're unlucky and they use edge LED.
Still much better than a TN panel though.

That's why I like Dell if there is no money for expensive high-end EIZO or NEC. Dell using the same panel in the u2311H and the monitor is zillion times faster just because of the better board they designed compared to what LG did for their very own panel. But - on the other hand - with Dells, you have to send back 4-5 monitors before you lucky enough to get a perfect one. The cheap production setup took it's toll on the quality consistency. But once you receive a good one without bleed, psu-noize, fucked up AG coating, or glow-patches with the size of your hand... you are good to go;)

Onto your point, Prad.de is professional and my favorite by far, but they don't test monitors for gamers correctly because they test them with 60Hz only, and override behaves differently with higher Hz ((an article about this from - an otherwise - worse site). Also Prad.de doing something strange lately with the testing because the new 2312M has almost no input lag (it's really hard to measure like 1-2ms max), but it's not as good color wise as the more expensive u2412M (I talking about after calibration ofc, because Dells do horrible TN-like colors out of the box), and they concluded the very opposite about these two.o_O

But anyway, these new M(ainstream) LED shits are sadly nowhere to their predecessors, and that's why I didn't recommend anything for rush_9000, because I can't (the u2312HM can only do 72Hz anyway, which is still good for 24p movies, but not as good as how it was before).
I don't understand why they had to go cheaper again like when they removed 2bits and 2ccfl lamps by going to the u2311h from the 2209wa:/ The FullHD u2311h was still the best buy if you handpicked a flawless piece, but the 6ms FullHD 2209wa could have been the perfect one in this price segment:D)

But I agree with you of course. IPS panels are still better because you only get some Crysis like very small motion blur effect at flick shots and no black overshots like with TNs, which looks terrible imo. I compared my Dells to several 2ms 75Hz TNs and the blur is similar or not much worse on the Dells, and definitely better than what you get with 5ms TNs. And most importantly, there is much less input lag involved, almost nothing at 77Hz......
..... So - while 120Hz TNs are still the fastest after CRTs, the difference is not that big and if you like to watch movies, browse the web and do graphics stuffz when you are not gaming, you are better of with a fast IPS imo, because there is a worthy quality difference, and you can still buy a CRT for 20€ if you are crazy like me and need it for Quake:).

"Onto your point, Prad.de is professional and my favorite by far, but they don't test monitors for gamers correctly because they test them with 60Hz only, and override behaves differently with higher Hz ((an article about this from - an otherwise - worse site). "

Actually, I don't think this article is very relevant:
"He also comments that "2 said that they supported 75 Hz, but when we measured the time between images we realised that they were in fact at 60 Hz" and also that "finally, the last two really ran at 75 Hz…partially. In fact the monitors really displayed four images and then skipped the fifth. The sixth one was displayed normally. When we looked at the results, we realised that this skipped 5th image was to resynchronise the monitor at 60Hz. In fact, it really displayed 4 images in 67 ms whether it was at 60 or 75 Hz."

Basically it seems they tested monitors that don't truly support higher hz and skip frames. A good way of checking that your monitor does or doesn't skip frames is with this tool (although you can also just look at your mouse cursor movements and test various games with vsync at 75hz) http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1423433

Not saying the article is completely irrelevant but I don't think it applies to all monitors. And yeah, I've noticed some lack of consistency on prad reviews too but, well, it's for the most part still the best site of its kind :/

Anyway I agree about Dell being better than LG despite using the same panels, however I had no idea when I bought my LG and really can't be bothered exchanging it for a Dell U22(3)11 (similar panel but CCFL lit), plus as you said I might have to exchange it a couple of times to get a good one. The one I have has some buzzing noise (so slight that wearing headphones with no sound covers it) but a decent uniformity so it does the job :)
I haven't even tried opening the hidden menu but I believe you can turn the RTC on/off there (I've seen screenshots that seemed to show that), might be interesting to try turning it off.

Edit : yeah the 6bit is a shame but I've never such good dithering as on those panels (they look totally unlike 6bit TNs where I can notice the banding much more easily). Responsive 8bit panels like the 2209 is what we need, but they don't seem to care :(

Oh you misunderstood me I think, I did not link that article because of the frame skipping but because to "show" that the RTC going to behave differently when using different LUTs, and Prad.de never care about those in their tests.

I had that buzzing noise in my u2311h but only at 72HZ. Since I need 72Hz to watch 24p movies, I tried to exchange it where I bought, but they were unable to set refresh rates despite they are monitor resellers:( (they are very nice guys btw, just they never did such thing:S)....and because the monitor was a handpicked good piece, I just left it like that and increased the brightness a bit until the noise disappeared.. Strangely enough, the noise stopped after a few months and when I lowered the brightness back to the calibrated level, it was gone \o/...
The monitor is a very good one imo... can't compete with Eizo or Nec awesomenesses quality wise ofc, but I bought it for 160€ with dead-pixel-protection plan, which was a nobrainer for such a quality at that time (and perhaps it's still good even now, years after it's release date)... There is a slight blur with fast moving things, but it's below my annoyance level with 95% of the games, and there is virtually no input lag at all at 77Hz. Putting it next to the 2209wa the 6+2bit looks surprisingly similar, and the difference is only apparent when you use Photoshop or when you are rendering images with smooth gradients, but rarely in games.
But -on the other hand - your monitor has a better coating imo and feels a little better when you are reading black text on white pages, so in that price segment, you always have to make some compromises;)

ps.: not relevant, just FYI, an - imo - "good to know" article on the backlight:)

Yeah I do see your point now :)

Thanks for the article, had heard about the issue but never looked much into it.

And yeah the buzzing only happens with a hz above 60 for me too, and only when displaying some specific content.
I can also fix it by playing with the brightness, but I like to keep my brightness very low most of the time (it seems that I don't have the backlight flicker issue or I don't notice), it makes the blacks much better and easier on my eyes etc.

yes.. the panel in our monitors is awesome when it comes to brightness.. I have the brightness at 10 and perhaps 20 on sunny days:) and the contrast on 65.

Just some fun fact: I heard that they managed to screw this also in the 2312M btw, because you can't lower the brightness enough and people complaining about the too high brightness is hurting their eyes in dark rooms:(
Another thing is that the brightness on the 22" and on the 24" version 2212M/2412M are much better because you can lower it more, and they also produce sharper pictures, but the input lag is higher for some reason.... I think only God understands what is going on in that LG panel factory:)

CRT

32 kilograms

32 kilograms of goodness:)

Tell it to my squishy table. :)

There is no BEST 60/75hz LCD or LED since they are all together a pile of crap.
Buy 125hz or dont buy at all. Cheers.

yes because refresh rate is all that matters in a monitor

Ofc it's not but it's the first thing you want to look for. Who cares about input lag if your picture is a blur.
Also tone down your sarcasm when posting online please if you want your opinion to have any value.

Cheers.

Yeah I think I changed my mind. BenQ XL2410 is $300. Tempting.

Go for it tbh, I would only consider getting a 60/75hz monitor if picture quality and viewing angles were a critical concern (and it would have to be a IPS/PVA panel in that case).

You will not regret buying that.

Why not a 2233rz if you going to spend such money?

It's not as good as the IPS monitors were in 2010, but I would still consider the 72Hz capable u2312hm instead of that BENQ tbh.. you should really go and check both monitors before you buy.

The benq has AMA, which I've seen the results of and I don't like it. So definitely no to the benq

The 2233rz is literally impossible to find in NA. Unless there's a lucky auction on ebay, you can't find it.

well, the BenQ GL2240 is very is cheap and can do 75Hz.

There is a new 120Hz model what nvc uses but i never saw that one IRL. You should contact him perhaps.

Nothing else comes into my mind in this price segment, but generally speaking:

* The best monitors are from Eizo and Nec (sadly, Sony is out from the competition)
* A category bellow is HP, Dell, Apple, Quato, LaCie, Mitsubishi, (experts also tend to put Hazro, DoubleSight here, but I have no idea about those tbh). And perhaps Samsung is coming here shortly because they are really good in TV sets..
* Another level below is LG, Benq, Samsung, and perhaps Asus is coming here with some models lately (but I'm still sceptical about Asus tbh).

These are the brands you want to choose from imo:)

you can turn off AMA? (i own that monitor).

but if it's looks like this with AMA ON, I wonder how slow is it when it's OFF?

it's much better? :) no idea, why they tested with AMA on, that site is unreliable at best.

I spent some minutes googling for a reliable opinion what I could trust without testing it myself, but did not found any:(

But I would say tftcentral is well above average if it comes to monitors, more like 7/10 than "unreliable" imho:)

just saying... i own that monitor and i do not experience anything like that. from what i heard through forums no one sane uses AMA with the benq, so again, no idea why they tested with AMA on.

dunno:( I only tested the monitor for 15-20 minutes in a shop, but as I remember it was quite blury without AMA.. but I'm not really sure since I do not remember very well.

Perhaps it was an old FW, and they fixed things, and now it's a good buy indeed.

Their test is available now, if you are interested.

thanks, but this stood out:

The images above are the best case examples from the screen with the AMA function off and then on. In these instances I ran the screen at a normal 60Hz refresh rate. The XL2420T can of course support higher refresh rates up to 120Hz which we will test in a moment.

/idiots :(

No, read the last sentence of your quote... there is whole 120Hz section a little below starting like this:

"We repeated the same PixPerAn tests, this time while using a 120Hz refresh rate"

,

Anyway, I think they just saw that the u2311h was the preferred gamer ISP, and they simply stole the design and put a 120Hz TN inside.
Not an act what would make me to like a company tbh, but - apparently - it works quite well:)

ah true, but if you look at the screens you will realize why i prefer AMA off with the benq.

Enabling this feature does help provide a slightly sharper image and reduce the remaining slight blur which is good and for other pixel transitions and in general gaming it helps to improve the quality of the image. The resulting overshoot from enabling AMA is not too severe which is positive news.

i have no idea what "overshooting" is, but AMA does not mix well with quake (imo).

The overshot is when you get a shadow-like dark ghost of the image, like what you can see next to the white text-box on the left picture.

edit: I think you just accidentally quoted something which praises AMA, but I understand you do not like it.

I believe they fixed the AMA issues (or was it another issue?) on the BenQ with a firmware update.

I think the viewsonic 120hz monitor has the same panel as the Samsung. Or is that one also impossible to find?

am not sure , but i think its this benq XL2410 big ultra gaming fail with high latenci. and there is new benq XL2420 = is most fastest LCD now .

use google and read pro reviews. and read many HW forums as u can .

why buy something you want to replace