just to be clear:
I have nothing to do with this, just hosting the vid on my twitch account.

haha i went through your ql profile to find out who it was then i realised this was probably the case

EXPOSED™ > The Wire QL.

doesn't seem legit

Wallhack.
Unless you took these shots on like a year worth of demo.

wallhack.

give the guy's name already. (unless that guy is me)

theres a plenty of cheaters among the premium users, they less likely to get banned... everyone knows this.

This makes no sense whatsoever. It is profitable for id to ban subscribers cause they resub again (zhu, zeroql etc.)

im just saying a premium account less likely will get investigated with the same effort as a standard one, partly because of the estabilished history, but also cos they just make a new std. acc instead of resubbing afterwards...

you must remember cheating is not black and white... theres many players who wallhacking / botting only _sometimes_ and still not in the most blatant way... not everyone is like that kkk retard, in fact most isnt like him. sure the famous ones (like zhu or others) gets attention (and some people willing to go after them, partly because of their "trophy" as a reward when they bust - afaik a lot of work was spent to bring them down, and theyve been more or less in the spotlight, now imagine a non-competitive guy being in the dark, cheating with the same frequency and methods), but noone will investigate a random "midskill" dueller heavily who have a long stable history and playing clean most of the times...

by the logic of your first paragraph, it would seem logical to pay less attention to cheating standard users, because they can just remake an equal account.

That's pretty obvious. Unless player in the vid has more than 600 games played on toxicity I'd go with 100% :p

the funny fact is the guy who made the video reported the demo, but the lazy cunt who are running ql dont care it seems

Good quality QL video about something with nice music... enjoyed watching, thanks:)

jesus fuck say who it is already

lol you don't know yet?
:D

troll

Disgracing The Wire by throwing QL on the end of it.

Shameful shit, yo.

that looks pretty darn obvious to me, unless this 5 minute sequence is taken from 100 different matches.

ql video interlaced... why does it have to be like this?!

Every time when I see cg_wh video (even my demos LOL) it looks like wallhack.

When you see the cg_wh enemy, you forgot about game sounds (music in the background that interferes),
People have played hundreds and thousands of times on the same map, all enemy movements are well known, when you see vids like that, you forget about it.

Such movie can be maded of any player, even strenx you know. Need to analyze the dozens of games to determine wallhack.
Need to consider different options, not just to how he find an opponent. But the main thing - how he select the adaptive position before the battle.
How he behaves in situations where the enemy a lot or a little health, in cases where he does not know for sure about this information (case of tdm)
How he comes to take an items, and many more..

BTW, any hacker - paranoid, and with proper training can avoid and fake all this markers
For example: I am convinced that the anyway (aka F1th), zorre, and many others tdmpickup stars - are fuckin cheaters, but I have no proof so far

I guess the better the player, the more suspicious such a clip gets, but usually a legit player screws up multiple situations that end up costing a lot, that would have been prevented if he knew the opponent was there.

I think it would be more fair to upload the demo along with the movie, so it is clear this is not some fancy editing work.

I did not want to give his nickname before people watch it due to his reputation. The only part i've edited is at 1:47 (video time) because there was a fight that i've cut off explaining why he knew where i was. The rest is basicaly what you could take out from the demo from his POV & seeing me.
I had never heard about anyway or f1th before but i felt like something was suspicious while playing (hence this post). And I played foodmaters or kkk (or whatever he is called) 2 maps in a row thinking the guy was just very good :)

i would venture to say it's definitely possible to statistically analyze this.
first variable is the distance (angle, units) from the crosschair to the first occurrence of the enemy model in the FOV.
second variable is the crosschair movement of the players FOV when the enemy is not in the sound range, in order to keep the enemy player in the FOV.
third variable is the frequency of physical direction movement change of the player when the enemy is not in the sound range, possibly augmented by whether its in the direction of the beneficial location relative to the enemies location.

combine these three, determine sigma, statistical significance (whether negative actions are done to offset positive action) against known data samples, and you have a pretty good WH detection test, I think. even if someone manages to evade something like this, then they are basically not using the WH to their advantage, anyway.

One thing is that the player is shown only if he is in sound range. What matters is whether he revealed himself with sound cues previous to a suspicious act, and detecting this may be quite tricky.

Similarly, it would be interesting to try and find the "humanized patterns" in the auto-aim systems. I still feel the battle against a cheat creator would be lost, as it would take him less time to adjust the pattern to evade the detection, but it would still be a nice project.

i completely disagree. it would be harder for him to win against a strong statistical analysis with all the variables we can use, as he would have to model human behavior. this becomes an AI problem. just think about all the variables and the math. acceleration, rate of positional change, fire rate, etc. even if there is no benefit to this bot, as it would try to mimic the players aim, its algorithms would be statistically detectable, but of course he would have to actually provide some benefit, which is even more detectable.

My experience, which is admittedly not much, is that these systems are very hard to tune, especially if the model matches reality only partially. The effect is that there is not correct sensitivity: one gets either too many false negative (making the detection less worth) or, possibly worse, too many false positives, which in a social environments can get unpopular quite fast.

That is why I would expect a practical system to be more specialized at detecting particular patterns, which would lead to an easy response from the cheat maker.

But as I said, this is just my speculation.

but we don't have to model anything! we just have to compare the results of "their" model to a clean dataset. and my point is that the one with the real data, and the biggest dataset wins by logic. executing of course is another thing. but they don't even have a mathematical model! this is doable right here, right now.
(and i guess since we're mentioning experience, i do deal with scientific modelling for work)

Neat idea. There is nothing wrong with it except two points:

1.) How much data needs to be collected before determining there is enough to warrant suspension/ban? While your system is quite good, it doesn't take into account how many BAD players are out there or the fact that the database is influenced by 'GOOD' players as well. So the data pool is already contaminated as it will be heavily weighted by the two extremes and will not be representative of the totality or the true median you are trying to approach.

2.) This system can be easily undermined by testing and determining the deviance that triggers detection and the time period data is maintained. Overtime extreme deviances would be rated less or dropped altogether.

It is a good idea, and could easily be implemented as an additional piece of statistical information with little work. Both Aggregate total averages and individual for the players in the match. Would be interestings. There are a number of problems though for it to be the be and end all of suspension/bannings or cheat detection. Probably just something to add to a stat slot.

zorre



































:D

:D!

Seriously.. zorre was one of the best q2 1v1 or tdm players. Thinking of him as a cheater is quite silly..vb

video proves nothing except the stat of the ESR nerds.

needs more music

you mean dubstep!

Can you handle this much dubstep?

bump4justice

both wh imo.

I'm dying to know who it is now LOL

a man's gotta have a code

3:48 is win moment in this vid. As gross as the rest is, 3:48 just takes the cake.

Just me or did it seem like they both were using hacks?

What if all spec games showed the character through the wall by default?

That way people inline or speccing could actually determine far more quickly if someone was cheating. Or at least give them the option if its not already possible.

Would it really ruin the game for the specs?

given how easy it is to mistake skill and prediction for hax.... no

Not if you're informed.

They could easily give the premissions out to trusted players to start off with and build it up over time.

Or they could just implement a decent anticheat, there are probably people at id software perfectly capable of this, but unfortunately none of them appear to be on the QL Dev team.

Hence why another solution needs to be found that requires litle or no investment from id and draws upon the few good people of the community!

With the QL dev teams own integrity being called into question, I wouldn't like the idea of them allowing the WH spec option to "people they trust".

I'm sure its better than nothing. Courts of law sentence people all the time for crimes they did not commit, doesn't mean they don't get it right most of the time.

You're trying to look for a perfect solution, it will never exist, so you have to consider less perfect ones.

I would rather a small % be falsely accused and banned and allowed to submit their cases for further analysis than the shitfest you have now with next to no cover.

I also hope if id implement their cheat stuff they do not annouce it and hopefully one day I log onto ESR with a list of all the cheated accounts and what other accounts are linked to that Ip.

All banned of course.

There is a perfect solution, it's the Anti Cheat, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility. However, they really do need to get their shit together for it to happen.

Any cheat code you write someone will probably get around it. These games have been going for 20 years, still no real anti cheat solution otherwise we would not be having this conversation.

Punkbuster anti cheat ended up ruining the game expereince for a lot of people who never complained about cheaters.

If you had trusted players in the community, and a nice voiting interface that made it simple and easy to report and view snippets of cheated demos in a matter of seconds, it might actually be the best thing.

^ this guy hasn't played ql for over a year on this account.

And i believe he has others banned.

and all you trolls that keep saying ID should do nothing...because you can never stop everybody is some copout excuse... and just too suspect for me to believe you even believe that.


stopping most is better then stopping nothing...what is wrong with you....

LoL and SC2 are popular for a reason. and guess what...they have NO grinding....and they have HIGH learning curve...and they have fantasy weapons.

so why is quake unpopular again? ....

Also, imo if you ban alts.....you take care of all problems without needing demos.......common sense to most of society....

not all alts are bots. not even close. BUT ALMOST ALL BOTS ARE ALTS!!@!!! wake the f up.

and not only that.....slum lord team stacking quitting alts are more detrimental and damaging to this playerbase then freaking bots...

I´m a cheater? ^^

apparently yes...

finally some evidence against this filthy cheater

tuesday my clan had to play a hoq game, but 10 minutes before the game our 4th player told me he can not play, so I was in panic mode searching for a 4th player(since we are short of players), and when i saw on #tdmpickup the last guy who typed in !who, it was anyway, so I asked him if he would like to play a hoq game for us.

I do not know him, just saw him in couple of pickups doing good. Now T1E told me on irc to look at this esr forum post, and after watching the demo on wolfcam, I have to agree this guy seems not legit.

well freaking unlucky :)

What the fuck did I do?