Spawn fraging is a prat of a duel game i think. If you get spawn fragged all the time, then you are doint it wrong.

I guess the overall system is ok, all it needs is a better spawn system

You can spawnfrag with "picking" also if you guess right where he wants to spawn. I just want to remove the stupid luck part where a good spawn decides the outcome.

You can say that atm it's the same that if you know he can spawn there then you do not go there. BUT with "picking" it's certain he wont have those stupid anomaly spawns which you can't do anything about.

For example you have a close battle and survive with low hp. After that you take into concideration where do you want to go - you think he has only 25 percent of chance to spawn there so you go there. 25 times out of 100 he spawns there and you get killed. It's not because he predicted your movement (as would be with picking) but because of chance. And this can turn games. With "picking" player A can think what player B thinks that he (player A) wants to do and react accordingly.

1) no
2) lol warsow
3) it currently exists in some maps.

cpm/qw also have no footsteps.

lol cpm

lol @ you

lol @ lol

you @ you

LMAO @ LMAO

@ @ @

L@L

cheater :C

:Cheater

i don't agree with any of those.

A lot of people just spawn straight away after being fragged, but you can watch and hear what your opponent is doing and where they go if you wait, which gives you a chance to work out what you can do. That goes some way to stopping the randomness imo.

1) After you die you have to press a weapon bind and you'll spawn in the room of that weapon/spawn associated with that bind.

I like this idea, has potential, but some maps may become unplayable due to exploits and would have to be reworked... maybe it could be either only on lower tiers, only on higher tiers, or just optional and off by default depending on feedback .

2) Remove footsteps for more tactical options

Again, I think this depends on the map really. I think ztn for example is already 'sneaky' enough, and would not benefit from it.

3) Fixed combinations of first spawns

I don't understand, do you mean always the same pair of spawns?

2)
How would it make ztn more sneakier? Atm you hear ppl there because of jumping and pickups anyways. Those wont disappear.

Look it from this way - on ztn you can get to more aggressive positions much faster meaning you can lay more traps. How it worked in promod, it allow me to play much more aggressive position wise because i could get much closer due to the extra speed. And when there is no sound involved it means you have to read your opponent better because you lack one extra clue. At least it seemed to work this way in Q3 where you could hear much less to the next room.

3) I mean tehre are for example 5 different possible pairings that can come. But if any of these come and you get a spawn then you know where your opponent spawned.

random spawns like qw,q2 and q3 in ql.

those aren't random.

they are random,its not like ql where spawns are kinda controlled

haven't played QW and Q2 in years, but I remember spawns weren't random.

I know for a fact that they aren't in Q3.

q2 = full random
qw = random but can't spawn on your previous spawnpoint on most servers.

Nope.. spawns in q2 are not fully random.

The system mostly used in QW atm is really completely random. I've managed to spawnkill guys on ztn 5 or more times on the very same spawn without moving, just shooting at the spawn. On other ocasions I killed them and they spawned on the other end of the map.

nah the most common one is the one where you can't spawn where you spawned before, you've just been playing on servers maintained by the same retards who can't be arsed to update ktx to finally get antilag.

lol I played in the Ignition 4 Tournament and every single game I played in it was played on such servers, so if this isn't the "normal" spawn-system why the fuck was everyone playing with it?

i dont think u should remove footsteps, the range of where u are able to hear your opponent is the problem. stand center map of aerowalk and u will hear every single spawn, and probably every jump sound too. not very weird its all rail map

I like a variation on suggestion 1: keep the current system of automatically ruling out the closest 50%, then give you a choice between those that remain. Instead of (or as well as) having hotkeys, display a map overlay showing the available spawns for you to click on. As with the current system, if you wait for 5 seconds it randomly picks one for you.

Yes, I like this.

Quake Live is awesome as it is thank you.

Also if you are dying a lot to spawn rape you are not playing it correctly. You can avoid it a lot by delaying or practicing where to move off the spawn.

No, it's not about dying alot. I know how to handle spawnrape perfectly well.

The issue is about randomness, those anomaly spawns that you can do nothing against. You know the times when you just happen to spawn at the places he goes. There is always a spawn that is shittier than other. Atm it's about luck if you get a shit one or a good one. The aim is to remove any kind of luck and to make it a player's decission where he spawns.

or other situation

Have you ever had a close fight that you won with 5 hp? I brought this one up before. You win this fight and run to a place where he has 20 percent of chance spawning. So once out over every 5 times he spawns there. IF he just now happens to spawn there it is luck and he gets the frag. IF you can pick your respawn then the one dead has to think where would the other player go and pick after a quick analysis. Do you understand the difference?

lol, if you win a fight and survive you wont be able to challenge any items and effectively give them full map control. Plus you'd want to be running to a place where you know they wont be off the spawn...

you cant rule out luck, period

reading ur posts lead me to one conclusion... you dont have any idea how to use forced spawns to your advantage...

Make walking 2 times faster, I LOVE THIS IDEA! Need to make not so much different btw walking and running.

doesnt u already walk half as fast as u run? :DD

Q3 random spawns were best. Sometimes unfair, sometimes hilarious, but it was part of the game, everybody accepted it and being able to spawn rape someone for instance on aero was one of the best feeling you could get in this game.

1 - no
2 - no
3 - yes

hilarious ideas, someone got butthurt in a duel game fo sho...


1- most funny idea ever... just like mefajpe said about q3 - random spawns were part of game, same as current system is part of game... get used to it... ql system is actually the most tactical of all that has been used in quake, cause it gives glimpse of control to guy who just fragged you... hes low - he will move forward to outclude some spawns... hes healty - he will push for spawn kill... deal with it...

Also its funny on some maps with low number of spawns :D

2- another bullshit written by butthurt guy... just watch cooller matches, insta tutorial how to use walking to set traps... also walking is equal exchange... enemy wont hear you, but you are slow... thats how its supposed to be dont... if walking speed was higher everyone would just walk instead of strafe jumping... removing footsteps is also stupid as fuck... making game random and aimbased is stupid as fuck... deal with it...

3- thats actually kewl, hate to get gl spawn @ t7, its 50% chance of being fucked for next 5 minutes...

Did you actually understand what I was trying to say?

This is about adding a new skill to the game and about removing the luck factor. This is about how to evolve Quake. Getting spawnraped is not the problem, it's the difference between good and bad spawns in any given situation. Do you want them to be luckbased or decissionbased? You want them to be luckbased only because it has been so for 10+ years. I would much rather have 2gd say "What a bad spawn decission" than "Oh, what an unlucky spawn".

And the same about walking. It's about giving you more options and thus increasing the tactical choices you have. Have you actually played a game where there are no footsteps? I'm aware that it might not be the best to remove them completely so this needs playtesting AND that is why i suggested to make it only with gauntlet (a penalty of using it). AND this means you have to focus on thinking abut his habbits - is he a player to use walking for aggressive positioning or is he a player who sits back rather than just basing this on sound.

And about your other post: would you like to test that theory?

current spawns are not luck based... thats why all of ur arguments are pointless...

You want a perfect world where guy that just died, can choose a spawn that will suit him the most... but its not logic way of making quake better... atm player who got a frag can chose where he want his enemy to spawn, in some degree ofc... for fuck sake, dont make player who just died take benefits... death in quake should have no benefits, and you should be punished even more!


about footsteps - gaunt is not disadvantage... without footsteps you could just easly run to ur enemy and deal at least 100 dmg... free damge...


ok lets see if u know how to use spawn system as ur advantage... ill be back in shape around 15 may

I like foctis' idea to combine it with current so you as the killer can force the spawns he can pick from. So he can pick within the 50% from which atm it's picked randomly. I just don't want the enemy to spawn next to me after the battle when I'm low only because of stupid luck. I want it to be a mind game. AND it's not only the player who dies who benefits, it's also the player who kills because he can predict where he will spawn and react accordingly if he wants to run or if he wants to attack.

Imagine it like this. You kill your enemy at railgun on ztn. You let him pick between plazma, rl, gl and lg. He is a lg prone player. Against weaker you can rush to lg cause you know he wants to spawn there. Against stronger you think that "he knows that i know he is a lg player so he probably wants rl spawn". And you can add different levels to this depending how does your opponent think.

If you want to run? You just think - he wants to block my health so he want gl spawn, so RL room, plazma and lg are safe. And go on from there. He gets those spawns atm anyways but now it's just luck and you can't predict anything.

Anyways, when you are back then find me in QL or IRC under the nick rehepapp.

the way u described it, ur wanna be kewl system looks more random and luck based than anything else

Please elaborate. Something that is decissionbased is more random than something that is actually random?

as i said, current ql spawn system is predictable, and even if ur wrong about picking the spawn after kill, you know where ur enemy spawned...

option to select ur spawn would make quite a fuss, cause ultra smart players would just pick spawns randomly, not according to what they need the most

What? This is wrong on so many levels.

a) Yes, the current system is predictable but getting a better or a worse spawn often can decide the outcome of the game. How is this an acceptable thing?

This is not only about getting ridiculously shit spawns (from fragger or dier perspective) but also adding an extra meta to the game. With picking you base your decissions on enemy habits not on the probability that is out of player hands.

b) Ultra smart players will pick it randomly? Unless this is sarcasm then better players WONT EVER pick this randomly. Basically what you are saying is that if a player can choose between 4 options A (1), B (3), C (7) and D (14) with their values in brackets. You say that he will settle with one of the less valuable ones by picking randomly? Good players never will, if they want to get back into the game. They WILL pick any other one if they know the opponent predicts him choosing the best one and here comes the multilevel thinking in that I described in my last post.

And even if people think that they are picking them on random, they never will. You will always see a pattern coming in.

On a sidenote I'm guessing that spawnpoints might have to be repositioned but this has to be tested before.

and ofc you never thought of picking random shit spawn, just to confuse your enemy?

I've accepted that you can't read let alone think so let this be. Contact me when you are ready for the game.

No. Current spawns are not predictable. You can predict the group of spawn points the player can appear to but you can't predict which one exactly. You can spam one but it's all a matter of luck if your enemy will or will not spawn there. pluck's proposition replaces the luck with meta-gaming, the ability to read your opponent well.

I don't mind how it is now, but ur suggestions are thoughtful and not the useless shallow childish crap we usually get. It is funny how the reaction is negative.

1 and 3 actually remove luck and add an extra meta game, making the game even harder and deeper. Of course, that could be bad for probably the majority of players, if u consider CA’s popularity and the trend to noobify quake and games in general. They are solid, well thought suggestions nonetheless, no matter if we aggree or not.

2nd will make the game more interesting and might lessen +backing. I prefer the gauntlet suggestion, than simply removing footsteps.

Hm, I wouldn't say the reaction is negative, they are just more vocal. And their reasoning? Nonexistent. But it was to be expected that there are people who have stagnated into their old habits - it still is an old game with lots of nostalgia involved.

And maybe they just don't understand what I am suggesting.

sad part is that id doesn't give a shit about these ideas.

just bring back q3 spawns, I miss proper in your face spawn rape on aerowalk :(

at first i thought "lol wtf" but 1 and 3 are pretty good suggestions; can't really say i like 2 too much, this might turn the game into a crawl fest, since you gotta be extra careful all the time.
also,i like your first suggestion a lot, but it's far from perfect. for example, when a major item is up, the dead player will always chose that location, giving them an instant advantage, which imo is not good - as somebody said, the dead player shouldn't be rewarded. of course, you could say "don't kill opponent at ya in dm6 when ra is up", but sometimes this can't be avoided and then they good a major item.
removing luck is definately a good thing, but this needs more thinking.

You can't fight those "dm6 yellow" extremes with spawning format. He will spawn at the other side of the map or he will spawn next to the fragger and get spawnraped again. There just isn't a place to spawn him elsewhere :)

BUT

Maybe keep the 50% rule/system of now as foctis suggested and let the one fragged pick from the spawns that fragger forces. This way the fragger has some control over the decisions of his opponent and can keep him away from the items at the middle of the map at least.

The other problem that came across my mind was double kills. If both players die within short interval, then who can pick what and who will be first (the first one to kill presumably)? Let them both pick from any as long as they both are dead (for 2 secs at least IIRC)? What if they pick the same spawn? Let them both spawn there or the second one gets automatically the 50% rule? etc

And I wonder how much would the spawnpoints have to be changed because I imagine there would be some trash spawns on some maps that won't ever be picked in any scenario. Or some really abusable ones come out.

And about the walking - I really want to test it. In theory you can cover a lot more territory and can peek corners faster meaning you can surprise more. I imagine it makes players more prone to mistakes and paranoia as you have to check more places where he can effectively come from. I am not totally sure about this one without some testing :).

If you keep the 50% rule you'll have to deal with another problem : the dead player will be able to see his opponent's movement as the available spawns change while he moves.

I was originally thinking about 5 seconds respawn time during which you can pick your spawn because now after you die you can hear the general direction he is moving to and can predict his movement anyway. You can already assume where you will be spawning.

But 5 seconds might be a bit too much so you can maybe see some bigger movement changes on the minimap after he moves out of your hearing distance.

So now I'm thinking about it like this:

The respawn time stays at 5 seconds.
The five seconds is split in two:

1) The first 2-3 seconds is the period when you can pick your spawn. I think 2-3 seconds is short enough to not get any substantial reads and long enough for you to be able to choose (you basically know what to do anyway). So after you die you get this minimap under the scoreboard where you have open and closed spawn points with corresponding keys next to them and a timer running down showing how much time you have left to choose.

2) This is the second half of the 5 seconds, the last 2-3 seconds. If you have decided not to choose a spawn point, then after the first step the minimap dissappears and you enter the random gap. During this time it works as normal - you cannot choose anymore and the spawnpoint will be picked on random. This means that if you want to spawn delay, then you risk getting a bad spawn.

So in short - You die. Enter 5 second respawn time. First 2 seconds you see a minimap where you can pick from. Last 3 seconds there is no minimap and if you made it this far, you are going to spawn randomly.

Maybe this could solve the problem.

as you see, the devil lies in the details :)

what happens if both players die? one picks, does the 50% rule kick in? then the other can deduce where the first one spawned. is it random? what is exactly the time between player1's dead and player2's dead in which it is decided if you can pick or spawn randomly?

then this in combination with your 2/3sec suggestion causes more problems. what happens if a dead player choses a spawn, but 5msec before pressing their bind the other player covers an area in which that spawn would be discarded by the 50% rule? chose another one? not enough time in the remaining 0.2sec. revert to random?

then almost certainly the spawn points will have to be adjusted, so that they are reasonably far away from any major item; or don't allow chosing a spawn point next to an item when it is up; but then again you could deduce that some item is up after having lost timing by not being able to chose a particular spawn point, etc.

that's what i meant by this needs a lot more thinking :)

Yeah, I agree. But since there won't be a chance to actually test it this has to be theoretical. Tons of solutions might come up, but which would last in practice - we can only presume.

Anyways.

With double deaths - if the respawn times overlap at any point they can spawn at the same place. If the respawn times do not overlap within the timeframe then it's business as usual. I'd just let them MG it out if they really want the same one. Tho one can easily get fucked over if he is second too late, but that's life :). So this means that every spawnpoint should have 2 spawns at least, the 2nd one being right next to the first one so there wont be physical spawnblocking.

The 2/3sec problem. This one is trickier. I'm wondering how it should exactly work. If you die do you get the screen immediately and if you immediately choose then you immediately spawn? Atm there seems to be ca 2 seconds gap before you can actually spawn meaning the player fragging can use that time to gain position and force spawns. What to do with this time?

If the one dead can pick during those seconds then forcing spawns is virtually impossible as it will basically be the distance from the fragger from his fragging point. Tho I'm not sure how important it is to let the fragger force them in advance.

But if we let him force them then for 2 seconds there won't be any spawns shown on the map and then for 2-3 seconds (depending how long the max respawn time is) He sees the open spawns.

But to your problem. I imagine some time gap has to be added. If the spawn has been opened then it will be opened for extra 0.5-1 second for example.

OR he will be shown the spawns that were open at the 2 second mark after your death, which is the time the fragger can use for force spawning (as it is now if the one dead spams mouse1). This way he has 3 seconds to choose from those fixed spawns and he doesn't see enemy's movement by them. I think I'll go with this one for now :) So there wont be active changing during the choosing part.

Might work, not sure. These are all the problems that come up in theory phase. I wonder which would come in practice.

yes, we'll never know for sure unless somebody implements it in q3 :/

so one question that comes to mind is how to detect "overlapping respawns", i.e. p1 dies, how long after that do you wait for p2's dead in order to declare a "everything goes / no 50% block" spawn choice mode?

you could say 2secs, the spawn delay we have right now anyway. but i see another problem: in order to do an informed decision, you'll need at least another 1-2s to see the available spawns and think through all options. this means the other player has more time to reach an item / hp / etc (after a close fight) than right now. also, you could deduce their position at dead + 2sec, which is more than you can now in most cases.

i.e. imagine you die, opponent is low health. he tries to be tricky and goes for a less obvious position (i.e. with less hp), but after 2s you see the spawn map and know instantly where he is going, based on position of dead + blocked spawns. so you spawn there and have an instant advantage.

i think the challenge lies in not giving any advantageous information to the dead player than he would have as it is now. one possible way i can think off is that the dead player can express a "spawn preference"; if he actually spawns there might depend on points like, is the enemy coverig the area? are any major items up? in that case the nearest possible spawn point lying on the line of sight between position of dead - preferred spawn point would be chosen (i.e. no randomness).

it's tricky :)

1 = no, its good the way it is... If I die I want to spawn asap to steal armors, get positons. Not take my time to choose the next spawn wisely.
- Deal with spawn rape and consider it as a punishment of dying.
- Deal with low health (MG) death after a fight (means you were lucky to survive, better not took the fight, ambushed him in the wrong way or went the wrong way after the fight).
2 = no, fuck this cpma lameness
3 = yes, quite nice to have diff combinations of spawns on maps.

1) How long do you think you will choose the spawn? After 10 games you will be spamming the spawns you want as fast as you do now. This will become second nature if you can use binds for that.

About spawrape - 10 min game, both players get a spawnrun. One player gets 3 frags, other gets 6 frags due to spawns coming together. Sounds fair? There will be spawnrape when picking, only it won't be because of luck, but because of reading ability. People will fall into habbits and patterns.

Low HP - Both players get a fight where the survivor has 10 hp. In one fight player A dies and gets a good spawn that B could not predict and gets the kill. In the second fight player B dies and gets a bad spawn which allows player A to get stack and keep control. Same situations and outcome decided by luckfactor. In lowscoring games this determines the result. Sounds ok?

2) You didn't say anything.

can't understand why people are so afraid of removing the last ounce of luck remaining in the game. it's NOT about removin spawnrape, it's making the outcome of the game to be decided by the players, not a random number generator. spawnrape will still be there, but now you gotta think, not get lucky.

imagine you make a move in chess but first you gotta roll a dice to see if your move was successful. oh, messi scored that goal? not so fast buddy, let's throw that coin first.

sounds ridiculous? same shit you're advocating.

Last ounce alongside with machinegun's random spread pattern.

Frankly quake duel is just bad game design. I said it before but again:


After a player/team has scored the gamestate should be reset.


All popular games and sport I can think of follow this basic principle (boxing is an kindof an exception). If you frag the opponent you should be rewarded with 1 point. Not 2,3,4 if your lucky. It is as simple as that.

The problem with random spawn is that there are so few spawns per game. This unbalances the influence of the random factor as it never gets to "even out" in the long run because the long run is to short in quake duel. Each game gets more heavily influence even if its perceived otherwise at first glance.

Random spawn also influences even matchups the most as it can tilt an even match to be completely lopsided in both directions.


Numerous obvious solution to this are available for duel which are easy to work out.

OT:
Also for new players a new game mode should be implemented (which should be rather easy).

FFA ARENA:

Plays as CA except its FFA (no teams): Spawn with all guns, last man alive wins the round.

Quick and easy rounds where the players can test and gain profiency with all guns. First till 5 round wins win the map.

Its not a competetive mode and shouldnt be, that can come later if the interest is there.

1) no
2) no
3) no

THANK GOODNESS FOR THIS
Spawn fragging only rewards people who have no skills or lives

You have to pick one.

Here's a little feedback which is hopefully what you're looking for.

#1
A really interesting idea but it runs into some problems:
- on some maps this could break the game, you could just choose to spawn near the next respawning powerup and take it for free
- on some maps you can choose to respawn on really good positionally advantageous positions (for example: lg on aero)
- on some maps it would be hard to determine what spawnpoint is the one where you spawn (for example: on ztn rail floor there are 2 spawns that are equally close to rail)

#2
A total removal of footsteps will depracate walking completely. Sounds are supposed to serve as a punishment for running. I can't say if it's better like this or like you want it, this I base on opinion (as you did).

Only removing footsteps for gauntlet is an interesting idea. Running would be punished by switch time instead of footsteps.

#3
Absolutely fantastic idea. This would really balance out intial spawns. I wonder if it would make some maps problematic though because paired initial spawnpoints would mean you always know where your opponent spawns and thus you can pretty accurately predict what he will do.

#1

We were thinking above about keeping the 50 percent rule (which has some other little problems here and there, like if he is dead then he can see the movement one the minimap, where he should pick from, making this an advantage; the extent of these is hypothetical of course atm). This also means that probably the spawnpoints should be changed to be as neutral as possible, depending on map and practice. Maybe play around with delays when spawning.

I should mention that #3 is already like that. There's a set number of combinations which some are more likely than others.

what the... get bent rehe! :|

suck it wannabe spain

And give us birds eye view for even more tactics. Cmon man stop this bullshit.
Its great fun as it is and rapha proved it more than once you can eliminate luck from a duel game so i dont see an issue here.
Quake was always about destroying your ego if you make a mistake and those spawns contribute to it as well.

/thread

Please elaborate.

If your enemy can choose a spawn means you cant force it so he pays less for dying. Same thing with footstep sound - price of dying going down even more since you have greater chance of setting a trap after, therefore making game easier overall.
Quake is so hard cause its rly rly hard to take back control and you try to minimize that effect with your suggestions. So in my eyes very bad.

I mentioned rapha cause he is proof that the game atm is very well balanced but in order to keep game "clean" from any so called "unlucky - lucky" moments you need to play close to 0 mistakes game.

That makes this fps so unique apart from, like someone else here mentioned, other more popular games that reset everything after a won round/frag etc... Take COD4 for example on mr12. That means you can sit on toilet for 11 rounds come back and win 13 <--- in theory ofc but you get what i m pointing at ---> mistake - 1 round who cares. In quake - mistake - 5-10 frags in average (or low frag count but potential 5+ minutes) etc. till you get back to control.

Hope i was clear in elaborating what makes quake such unique ego-shooter. (as i see it at least)

Cheers.

In this thread I think we have gotten it so far at the moment that the one dieing could pick from the 50 percent that the other players forces. So it is similar to what it is now but without the luck factor. There have been numerous problems and suggestions about this solution brought (mainly for it not give advantage to the one fragged. you can read above if interested) up but going further from there is in my opinion hard without actually getting to test any of them in practise. One of them being that the spawns points probably have to be changed for them not to be advantageous for the one dead.

My aim with this thread was not to make things easier for the one dead but more fair for both of the players - to figure out a better system. I refuse to believe that the current luckbased system is the final solution for Quake. As some anonymous swede posted before - the sample of respawns per game is too small for it to balance itself out -> to be fair for both.

Example from my previous post that should illustrate the current problem:

a)

10 min game, both players get a spawnrun. One player gets 3 frags, other gets 6 frags due to spawns coming together.

There will be spawnrape when picking, only it won't be because of luck, but because of reading ability. People will fall into habbits and patterns.

b)

Both players get a fight where the survivor has 10 hp. In one fight player A dies and gets a good spawn that B could not predict and gets the kill. In the second fight player B dies and gets a bad spawn which allows player A to get stack and keep control. Same situations and outcome decided by luckfactor. In lowscoring games this determines the result.

What this means at the moment is that when you get a frag the next ones are coinflip - you might get 3 or you might get 5. Is this acceptable in a "pro" game? So if you say that enemy has to pay for deaths, then by the current system the amount is calculated by luck - something out of players hands. I want to put this also into player hands. One extra thing that you can read about your enemy - one extra skill.

By the way, your birds eye suggestion might be the solution for making tdm and ctf actually watchable on stream.

Hoony mode

For those who don't know:

HoonyMode is a form of tournament introduced in November 2003 which is loosely based on the rules of tennis. During the warm-up, each player chooses a spawn-point or they are randomly generated if none are chosen. One player typically has a "stronger" spawn and the other a "weaker" one. When the game begins the player with the stronger spawn is considered to have the "serve" and each player death is treated as a point. After each point is scored players and the arena are reset and a new point is played; players switch spawn-points, so the player who had the "weak" spawn for the previous point now has the "strong" one, effecting a change of serve. All in-game behaviour (i.e. weapons, physics, etc.) remains the same as in the standard deathmatch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_ProMode_Arena#HoonyMode