You deliver so much hindsight with some real cutting edge thinking that you should just claim your title of president of the world already.

Are you mad that Shootmania is objectively bad.

Your post brings absolutely nothing new, plus you're pretty delusional if you think that Quake Live could be a really huge game with only a good marketing campaign and some huge cashprize. Sure Riot Games with LoL managed to get a even bigger playerbase by basically paying their way into esport leagues but on the other hand Painkiller had some huge cashprizes back in the day and I don't think it ever slightly made the game popular.

So basically your post is just the same old rambling from pretty much any oldschool quake player, Quake is your favourite game of all time so you feel like it should be the most played game in the whole world. But to be honest, Quake Live in its current state is not really interesting apart from its gameplay, an old gameplay that didn't age really well in the days of grinding, pay to win and so on.

Of course Quake Live needs money like everything else, but it should be used to add some functions in the game and the site first. They don't even need a lot of money or a lot of staff, QLRanks was done by 2 guys on their free time and it's better than anything id has done statistics wise.
Also if it hasn't changed, Quake Live is a project that don't generate income, I guess people actually running companies should forget about all the basic stuff they learned and listen to their players by losing even more money on project that already failed.

So stop stressing yourself about something that you have no control of and that is very unlikely to radically change in the near future, also stop considering marketing like the holy grail of our modern days, if you are selling frozen poop on sticks, even with a 50 millions marketing campaign you are not going to sell anything.

Hey frenchie, QL didnt failed, JC himself said that the revenue system they planned didnt worked, so they are thinking other alternatives. The ad revenue system failed.

Now go back to enjoy that crappy fps made by your compatriots.

John Carmack Keynote Q&A, August 2011 : "Quake Live has not been a business success [...] it loses money right now".
He even goes further by saying that the "ship has sailed", and even talks about how "it is obvious looking at it in retrospect that a game that is so skill dependent and so intense as quake 3 isn't going to have the broad appeal of a game where people can more hang out with their teammates at a slower pace and grind their way to greater abilities".
So unless John Carmack made another statement since then, he seems pretty lucid about Quake Live failure and the reasons behind it.

I remember that video. Always thought it was funny how he never mentioned the specific business model they chose to go with and it's affect on the success/failure of quakelive.

Why not quoting the "the ad companies imploded..." etc part? The project didnt failed, the ad companies based revenue system around which it was designed didnt lived to the hype. Hows failing having one of the biggest updates recently, and in some weeks a tournament of the caliber of DH? hahaha delusional. Keep seeing only the part of reality that suits your vision, and quoting it, like saying "quake didnt aged well" lololo yeah right call me back when in 15+ years shotmania has tens of thousands of active players, content updates and awesome tournies. Meanwhile the only delusional are those that embrace the race to the bottom. The very developer that is posting on esr said shootmania was aimed to other kind of players, i guess you would fit his description of the average shootmania player very well.

Didnt aged very well, made my day thanks.

The project was based on in game ad revenues so of course the project failed when the companies supposed to provide that part went bankrupt. But that's not even relevant to the second part of his answer where he explicitly express his view about how a game like quake live cannot be a hit success nowadays.
The fact that it is still updated once in a while or still played in one or two big lans has nothing to do with the fact that Quake Live, as a project, failed to meet the expectations.

Also you seem to think that I prefer shootmania over quake which is completely false since I'm really not interested in shootmania gameplay which seems really boring. I actually really like everything about quake's gameplay, but just because I like it doesn't mean I can't see its flaws and limitations compared to modern successful games.

you my friend have not heard of billy mays or the snuggie or the countless other garbage sold with a little sticker "as seen on tv"

wisdom

if you are selling frozen poop on sticks, even with a 50 millions marketing campaign you are not going to sell anything.

YOU'RE VERY WRONG WITH THAT111

It's not because it's my favourite game, it's because Q3/QL is objectively the best competitive FPS given the shitty alternatives, thats why it should be played and pushed forward by all means possible.

I don't stress, im just stating an obvious point in this post-good FPS enviornment.

Also you are obviously oblivious and a complete fool towards the power of mainstream media to make a product worldwide famous. Again: The only problem is money. If you had the money to hire elite-tier marketing people, you can multiply the QL userbase x thousands in no time. The power of mainstream media is a fact. Im not here to discuss if 2+2=is or isn't 4.

id software are old grandpas who dont know, what they are doing

edit: iD is id software (i would just post a reply, but since the reply button is broken for me, there is nothing i can do)

what the fuck is "iD"?

not sure if serious or counter strike player

not sure if serious or counter strike player

freud would like a word with you.

proper marketing is just one point of many...

the biggest impact on community is to make it pay on a regular basis. A game have to be great as WoW to make it worthy to pay monthly but there are guys who dont want to pay on a regular basis as a matter of principle. So I never tried WoW even when its actually the best game ever.

The free2play ads (early stage of ql) make ql look even worse now.

I am willing to pay up to 60€ for a game (eg Diablo3) when I know i can play it for the rest of my life.
Imagine a board game you have to pay on a regular basis. Just ridiculous

I will buy shootmania in case its fun and when it wont cost more than 60€ once.

tru dat. end of story.

what the hell are you talking about? With QL you pay one yearly fee and that's it, then you renew your subscription if you want to when the time is up.

what the hell are you talking about?
"then you renew your subscription if you want to when the time is up."
do you think that to renew the subscription is free?

Do you think that maintaining the web front-end and database is free for id? The premium packs? Updating the locations when changes ocurr? I know know its a 13 years old game right?

clueless

read more carefully what i wrote and mostly what wrote the guy before me.

Valve, Blizzard and many more are able and willing of doing several things for their old games for FREE (eg counterstrike) altought those arent games which need continous payment.

There was a time long long ago... ID belonged to those companys which cares about their old games. They developed several patches for q3 and q4 althought those games were "old" at this time. Those patches cant be compared to any ql update because they actually put effort into those patches.

I never said it was free. where did I ever imply that? I said you pay for one year then renew for another if you want once that year is up, which would imply paying again.

"what the hell are you talking about? With QL you pay one yearly fee and that's it, then you renew your subscription if you want to when the time is up."

thats what you said, and read like that seems exactly "you pay once".
Mostly after having read the statement of the guy before you, who were saying "i dont wanna pay continuously, it cost too much"

no offence, but if you read it that way you need some lessons in reading comprehension.

You're the one who misunderstood.

c1 said he doesn't want to play games that require a regular payment to keep playing. He wants to pay once for never-ending access.
You acted like this made no sense as a complaint against QL, because you only need to pay once a year (??)
nex1 pointed out that paying once a year is indeed making a regular payment.

I wouldn't exactly refer to paying once every year paying on a 'regular basis' (which are the words he used in his post). so maybe I misunderstood, or maybe my idea of regular is less than 365 days.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but yes, probably both of the things in your last sentence are true. Regular does not mean frequent. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regular

Yes, I'm aware. Regular, in terms of time, can refer to something both frequent and infrequent. I do not think a yearly quake live subscription renewal constitutes being 'infrequently regular' because of how large the gap is between renewals, thus I assumed he was referring to 'frequently regular' - which, as I pointed out a while ago, is not even an option for QL.

I just dont wanna pay continuously

Then usa a free account, or get a job?

he didn't say he doesn't want to pay at all.
Just that he would want to pay like for q1,q2,q3,q4

The he should play q1,q2,q3,q4. QL is a different product, so it has a different payment method.

no..... really?
Thanks a lot! i didn't recognize it for myself!
Stfu, retarded moron, if u don't want to understand the meaning of the phrases

u mad? Let the guy speak for himself smartass.

then why did you reply me, mad smartass? stop misunderstanding the guy comments

> then why did you reply me

because you replied me first? You called me dumb earlier, i guess it makes you feel better calling people dumb while doing truly dumb actions and not even acknowledging them.

"Let the guy speak for himself"
since you didn't understand what that guy said, i helped you to understand; thats why i replied to you

"i guess it makes you feel better calling people dumb while doing truly dumb actions and not even acknowledging them."

seems an accurate description of your way to act

quote myself

I dont want to pay on a regular basis as a matter of principle

I wont even pay continously when I would be the most rich man on earth

Yeah rich people is mostly like that, they try to pay as little as possible, bend the rules of the system, evade taxes etc.

Back ontopic, you dont pay bills on a regular basis? electricity, internet, etc...

would have need to trash everything that is not the game itself and redesign the platform from scratch. than a lot $$$$$ -on marketing- to let ppl know this ql is not that ql they used to know, and now they can come safely, they wont get cheated, wont get annihilated and to educate them about for that 50$ subscription fee (khm i mean one time signup) its actually their fortunate to receive such treasure for so little symbolic fee.

Yeah of course, they need to drop the stupid notion of paying constantly fo a game. And give free lan support.

The new Tribes makes a very poor competitive game imo, but the marketing and community interaction (clear dev to player communication, promoting streams, sponsoring tournaments, pushing it into leagues etc.) has made it very popular. I believe that there is a growing backlash in the PC gaming community towards the slow, "tactical", military shooters like CoD and BF3 and people want a new skill based fps to rally around. Hirez is doing a fantastic job with TA and Valve is going to be unleashing CS:GO before too long. Now we have Shootmania coming as well. There is a growing market to be exploited and I really hope QL can get it's shit together and capitalize, because I don't believe the gameplay in the other offerings is (or going to be) nearly as balanced and polished.

Pretty obvious marketing is the key to QL but still, it seems zenimax/bethesda think it's not worth it... all they need is to hire the dudes in charge of marketing coca cola, marlboro or mcdonalds for a few weeks to set them some marketing 'solutions' and QL will survive as an engaging or potentialy competitive game for 1000 fucking years in the same way Chess, Monopoly, Tetris, and ****** will do.

If there were enough people playing, the whole 'getting raped' part wouldn't matter and consequentially wouldnt scare newcomers away because there would be enough players in each skill tier to keep it level and 'fair'. This, and a billion other reasons/consequences.

Quake Live is dead. Quake Live is not a phoenix. Shitmania will be far more popular than Quake Live ever was. Quake has no future because id will never produce another successful game.

Welcome to ESR, where gaming meets reality.

Shitmania will be far more popular than Quake Live ever was.

I don't know if you're joking, but that's kind of the point of the post from how I take it. IF Shootmania will be more popular than Quake Live, it is because of MARKETING, and some of the esports features they are taunting are just that. No one cares about making their own maps inside the actual game. The most important thing is the core game system. And if QL is less popular than Shootmania, its because the marketing did not explain to the general public why QL is better, or that it exists, for that matter.

No one cares about making their own maps inside the actual game.

If it does better than QL it's not from marketing, it's much more than that (I posted more reasons below)

Games like 1.6 and Source are still the most played steam games, do you think that would be the case if Valve ran the 1.6 servers, gave the community specific modes, 80 maps, didn't have a GTV, didn't have a LAN server, and was through a browser? Of course not, those games do well because I can run a server with whatever 1.6 mod and map I want on it, with my rules. The game becomes lego at that point, and you can do what you like. TF2 remains popular because of that factor too.

Companies want too much control over games because they want to make their profit from stupid things like 4$ guns and subscriptions, so they lock it down and remove any need for creative talent.

Of course not, those games do well because I can run a server with whatever 1.6 mod and map I want on it, with my rules.

No, that's not why they do well. People can run QL servers or Q3 servers, or any servers. Games do well not when you can run servers, but when people enjoying PLAYING THE GAME, so that they have an actual reason to join a server. CS does well because it's a good or best tactical realistic game.

The game becomes lego at that point, and you can do what you like. TF2 remains popular because of that factor too.

Uh what? TF2 doesn't have any of "that factor". It is precisely popular because it's a fun game, and it's gotten more profitable and popular with "stupid things like 4$ guns and subscriptions".

No, that's not why they do well. People can run QL servers or Q3 servers, or any servers. Games do well not when you can run servers, but when people enjoying PLAYING THE GAME, so that they have an actual reason to join a server. CS does well because it's a good or best tactical realistic game.

Fair enough, the gameplay does need to be good, that's something I didn't really comment on. I think my main point is that if you have two games, both with good gameplay, where the first game is very open like 1.6, and the second is locked down like QL, obviously number two will have less players and die more quickly over time.

Also, TF2 only recently put in their store, it was still extremely successful when it was $25.

I think my main point is that if you have two games, both with good gameplay, where the first game is very open like 1.6, and the second is locked down like QL, obviously number two will have less players and die more quickly over time.

So what you're saying is that if you have two games, both with good gameplay, where the first game is released to CD and has zero infrastructural backing, like 1.6, and the second is continuously updated and integrated, like QL or WoW, or DotA, or TF2, obviously number two will have less players and die more quickly over time? Yeah, makes total sense.

Updates don't mean shit when their a dime a dozen, and bring nothing new to the table. Also I never mentioned anything about purchasing a CD, don't make up things to try to prove your point.

Updates mean more shit, even if they're a dime a dozen, when your alternative is a dime a zero. Also, if they brought nothing to the table, they would not exist. You should try logic.
You don't need to mention anything about purchasing a CD. A CD is stamped at a factory, and CS 1.6 will forever be the same on that CD. This reality (which I am not making up), which is that CS 1.6 is a piece of software given to you, proves my point. QL on the other hand is a service that is continuously changing.

1.6 is available on steam, why on earth are you bringing up CDs? I'm not arguing the medium on which the product is distributed, I never even brought that up once, what the fuck are you seriously talking about.

I'm not arguing the medium on which the product is distributed either. How is this not obvious from reading my post? Did you stop right before this?

This reality (which I am not making up), which is that CS 1.6 is a piece of software given to you, proves my point. QL on the other hand is a service that is continuously changing.

I wrote it slowly this time, maybe you have trouble reading.

Updates don't mean anything when the game gets five maps a year and a few cvar changes. You'd have an argument if the updates were actually good.

Have you looked at the last update? If I recall, it had more than a few cvar changes.

Have you look at the updates before that one? And the one before that?

Yes, and I'm pretty sure each premium pack had good intent in it, some less, some more, but content nonetheless. Anyway, why would you ignore arguably the best update and say "You'd have an argument if the updates were actually good."? You have to realize you can't ignore reality just because it doesn't align with your false claims.

Too little too late, look at the features alone of Shootmania, it has more than QL has and it's alpha. QL doesn't have matchmaking, custom maps, LAN servers, dedicated servers, or a proper GTV. You're locked into what they give you.

On paper QL is a big-brother version of Q3. They run the show, and everyone switched over thinking QL would be the next biggest thing. It was for two years, and it slowed down because the game and features barely changed from release till now. Everyone wants to sit here and complain about it but the move shouldn't of happened in the first place. The entire reason everyone switched was the hope of bringing in new blood.

Tribes did the same thing, make a game that the developer can control everything about, make weapons take forever to grind and purchase, don't give the community a map editor, lan servers, dedicated servers, or even a first person spectate mode.

Part of it is marketing too, but even if QL had the promotion that SM has been having, it wouldn't of changed the outcome of the game very much.

QL doesn't have matchmaking, custom maps, LAN servers, dedicated servers, or a proper GTV.

Who cares? The general public doesn't give a slightest fuck about any of this.

You're locked into what they give you.

Uh what? You're always locked into what they give you. How are you not locked into what Shootmania devs give you?

The entire reason everyone switched was the hope of bringing in new blood.

No, the entire reason everyone switched is because QL is a better game than Q3, an evolutionary step with updated weapon balance and the ease of use of a web-interface.

You must really like QL for some reason because you're not really right about everything you just said. The general public does care about those kind of things, how do you know they don't?

QL is not a better game than Q3 at it's core. There were slight tweaks to gameplay, a web interface, stats, and that's it. Quake 3 had LAN servers, customizable gameplay (QL only JUST got that), custom maps, dedicated servers, and mods.

Oh and at the expense of killing existing Quake communities because no servers were provided to their region, the expense of not being able to run a Quake LAN and have organizations run tournaments without sending three people and servers to the event, the expense of telling people what maps are good and what maps they can play on (instead of letting them make their own and play them), at the expense of basically moving the entire Quake 3 community to QL and forcing them to play QL, or no Quake at all (since Quake 3 is dead).

Sorry but QL had it's nice little boom at the beginning, but after about two years, ID didn't keep up, and it's just died from there. Christ there wasn't even an enti-cheat for how long? Close to a year?

The general public does care about those kind of things, how do you know they don't?

Because general public is about consuming, not creating or contributing. I can't help you if you don't understand this.

QL is not a better game than Q3 at it's core. There were slight tweaks to gameplay, a web interface, stats, and that's it.

Uh what? So it is?....

Quake 3 had LAN servers, customizable gameplay (QL only JUST got that), custom maps, dedicated servers, and mods.

That doesn't make Q3 a better game, it makes it modifiable, which isn't actually a feature. The "web interface, stats, and that's it" is the entire point of QL with huge usability and availability, which totally trumps potential existence of some 3rd party mods.

Oh and at the expense of killing existing Quake communities because no servers were provided to their region

Except not creating something is not "killing" something.

expense of not being able to run a Quake LAN and have organizations run tournaments without sending three people and servers to the event

Except it's not your expense when you are not provided with something for free. Anyway, there is little benefit to LAN latencies over internet and the benefit is making server spawning trivially simple and so you can still have LAN parties, with less hassle.

the expense of telling people what maps are good and what maps they can play on (instead of letting them make their own and play them)

Except it's not an expense and you are not "told" anything when you can not control what a service game like QL features. No one is telling you not to use GTRadiant or start a Q3 server. Anyway, a number of custom maps have also been incorporated into QL.

at the expense of basically moving the entire Quake 3 community to QL and forcing them to play QL, or no Quake at all (since Quake 3 is dead).

No is forcing you to do anything. Obviously Q3 is dead because the entire community chose to move to QL.

Sorry but QL had it's nice little boom at the beginning, but after about two years, ID didn't keep up, and it's just died from there. Christ there wasn't even an enti-cheat for how long? Close to a year?

Sorry, but you're not making sense. QL is not dead, many people are playing it for what it is, and few of those people care about anti-cheat. You should stop projecting your feelings, something is distorting your perception of reality.

Because general public is about consuming, not creating or contributing.

Exactly, you consume what's created, of the community creates more, the community can consume more. If you let the community make more, more will be consumed.

I won't bother arguing the other points because your dick is too hard for Quake Live. You really have no reasoning in your arguments, just a "get over it" attitude. Are you getting paid by ID for this?

Exactly, you consume what's created, of the community creates more, the community can consume more. If you let the community make more, more will be consumed.

Except the community is not organized or skilled enough to create an actual game, or to compete with QuakeLive. So who cares?

I won't bother arguing the other points because your dick is too hard for Quake Live.

I don't get hard about computer games, but if I did, I'm not sure why you think that's a valid reason to excuse your inability to argue.

You really have no reasoning in your arguments, just a "get over it" attitude.

Except all the logical reasons I clearly explained?

Are you getting paid by ID for this?

No, I was actually born with the ability to exercise logic.

Except the community is not organized or skilled enough to create an actual game, or to compete with QuakeLive. So who cares?

LOL, good laugh.

Oh, why? Please, do tell!

Except the community is not organized or skilled enough to create an actual game, or to compete with QuakeLive.

Because you're so full of yourself you think you can actually know shit like that.

Oh, I see. Well, then, I do sincerely hope you will enlighten me?

I really have to explain it to you? Are you that stupid?

Yes.

Still waiting.

So, I guess you can't explain it? Maybe because you're not Karl Marx enough to explain to me how full of shit I am to know what every little kid knows, except you, apparently, which is that it takes substantial funding and organization to create anything as complex? Which is why this economy works to begin with, and why there is specialization of labor, division between consumers and producers. Welcome to capitalism and industrial revolution.

I like how this thread turned out.

Gillz, you really should take a look at other games first instead of talking from the position of a niche gamer.

Fact is QL isn't a fun casual game to play. 99.999% of people have more fun playing the latest CoD than QL 1v1.
You could advertise the game even more, because it was advertised at the beginning, but people will play it once (whether against Crash or some random instagib match) and drop it for good. Check some stats if you like, for example in-game medals.

As a second point, I get some might think QW, Q2 and/or Q3 were more entertaining to play than QL, but any of those can't compare against what the industry has to offer right now to the masses.
This is the reason why it ultimately failed. Q3 didn't age well, while it remains true QL would be better if id didn't restrict it (LAN, dedicated servers) and featured more community made content (mods, maps).

It has almost nothing to do with id running the show. As you should know, 99.99999999% of games are just like QL. Old id software games are truly an exception.

Finally, my personal opinion is QL is an overall better game than Q3, and I prefer streams over gtv, but those are different topics.

The perceived difficulty is definitely something that keeps people away. There was a thread over on Reddit discussing why the game isn't more popular and the most common answers were that 1) it's too hard and has no match making (which isn't entirely true imo) 2) it's old and 3) it's too simple/only based twitch (which conflicts with #1).

I think the game caries a bit of mystique that scares newbies away before they ever really give it a chance. This generation of gamers are used to games that constantly stroke their ego or at least have cool explosions and stuff even if they have horrible basic fps skills. In Quake you have to be good at movement, timing, aim, map/weapon knowledge, all of it or you suck and will be punished. In most newer class based team games there are roles that lower skilled players can play and still feel like they are accomplishing something.

Despite this I feel like if a game is marketed and promoted wisely then the "challenging" aspect that makes newbs rage can become a positive. SC2 and CS are two obvious examples of this and the way Hirez is pushing T:A ("THIS IS ESPORTS" etc) is the way id should be pushing QL. Hire some QL specific community managers, get involved with streams/tournaments and make it FUN to be a part of the community.

Link to that Reddit discussion:

http://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/t...t_i_truly/

QL had tons of word of mouth marketing, and if you think that isn't enough, then you probably haven't heard of a little game called "Minecraft" - an incomplete game that sold millions of copies, with no advertisement at all. Even still, we've seen Quake games with advertising. Q3 and Q4 were both fully advertised, and it didn't make any difference. No matter how much you advertise something, if people don't want to play it, it isn't going to make any difference.

the little game of minecraft has almost no learning curve, is universally accessible, and very original as far as computer games go. that is why it is successful. if you give any random person QL and minecraft, on average, they will prefer minecraft.

next, both Q3 and Q4 were quite successful gaming titles, and made the developers substantial profit, so apparently people did want to play them.

now, QL having *had* (past tense) word of mouth marketing is exactly the point. it had a great start because it was advertised. it was talked about on all major gaming sites, people were lining up to try it, and there was a ton of fresh blood when it was released. the problem with that, at the time, was that it was completely free to play and was supposed to be profitable from in-game advertising, and THAT did not work out. the popularity that clearly was, was not monetized.

now, with a subscription model, it needs to be advertised again.

the little game of minecraft has almost no learning curve

... and? That's the point. People played it for the game, not for the marketing.

next, both Q3 and Q4 were quite successful gaming titles

You're not only wrong, but even id admits that they were commercial failures.

now, QL having *had* (past tense) word of mouth marketing is exactly the point.

It would still have it, if people were actually telling their friends that it was worth playing. Word of mouth advertising has died because people did not feel like it was worth telling their friends.

now, with a subscription model, it needs to be advertised again.

The subscription model has been one of the biggest issues with the game, so I'm not sure why you think that advertising the weak points would make any difference.

... and? That's the point. People played it for the game, not for the marketing.

...and? That's the point. QL being less immediately accessible needs more marketing to reach all the potential rare individuals who might be interested in it, who don't know it exists.

You're not only wrong, but even id admits that they were commercial failures.

huh? they both turned a profit, even if not as much as desired. i'd like your source for id Software saying that they were commercial failures?

It would still have it, if people were actually telling their friends that it was worth playing. Word of mouth advertising has died because people did not feel like it was worth telling their friends.

that means its a niche game. even I am not telling all of my friends about it. I've only told a few who I thought might stick to it, and I think even those who did would not tell their friends. that is exactly why it needs actual advertisement.

The subscription model has been one of the biggest issues with the game

huh? if you pay for a subscription, it's not a 'weak point', it's what everyone expects because that's how the economy works.

so I'm not sure why you think that advertising the weak points would make any difference.

uh, obviously I don't think any advertising should include any weak points. nor do I just want the advertising for QL say "it's some game you have to pay $25 a year for!". if I were to actually say what points should be advertised, it would be fast gameplay, fun of unrealistic weapons, game modes.

That's the point. QL being less immediately accessible needs more marketing to reach all the potential rare individuals who might be interested in it, who don't know it exists.

It's more accessible than Q3, and Q4. It should have done at least as well. It didn't.

huh? they both turned a profit, even if not as much as desired. i'd like your source for id Software saying that they were commercial failures?

Sure, if you count engine licenses. Q3 sold much less than Q2, and you can argue that the small team makes up for it, but it's not about how much THEY make, but about the relative popularity that it represents.

that means its a niche game. even I am not telling all of my friends about it. I've only told a few who I thought might stick to it, and I think even those who did would not tell their friends. that is exactly why it needs actual advertisement.

Such a niche already attracts the type of people who would seek out such a game. Advertisement wouldn't reach anyone more than it already has.

huh? if you pay for a subscription, it's not a 'weak point', it's what everyone expects because that's how the economy works.

The subscription model is horrible, even for other genres where it would be slightly more appropriate. You had a point at the start where it was all free, and it still couldn't attract anyone.

uh, obviously I don't think any advertising should include any weak points. nor do I just want the advertising for QL say "it's some game you have to pay $25 a year for!". if I were to actually say what points should be advertised, it would be fast gameplay, fun of unrealistic weapons, game modes.

You said that it needs to be advertised now that it has a subscription model, as if that made any difference. If anything, it needed to be advertised before such a horrible change, but it probably would have just pissed off the slightly larger community that it might have had.

It's more accessible than Q3, and Q4. It should have done at least as well. It didn't.

what are you basing this on?

but about the relative popularity that it represents.

Quakes relative popularity will never be what it was before CS came along, so its relative popularity has to be gauged against the percentage of people who liked it out of those who tried it.

Such a niche already attracts the type of people who would seek out such a game already. Advertisement wouldn't reach anyone more than it already has.

what are you basing this on? you are missing the entire point of why MARKETING exists. people are not attracted to things they do not know about. there is an entire generation now, that grew up playing exclusively with the gamepad. they never heard of quake, they don't know what they're missing, and no one ever told them.
even in PC gaming circles, if you ask around, no one knows QL exists, even old quakers. the only people that know about it, found out from digg, slashdot, and other media precisely during the time it was being marketed, which lasted for a few weeks leading up to the public release.

The subscription model is horrible, even for other genres where it would be slightly more appropriate. You had a point at the start where it was all free, and it still couldn't attract anyone.

uh what the hell are you basing this one? at the start, the demand was absolutely huge, which is why projected usage was in a million. the subscription model is no more horrible than the entire notion of free market and equal exchange.

You said that it needs to be advertised now that it has a subscription model, as if that made any difference.

as if? yes, as if now popularity can generate income as opposed to when it couldn't. as if.

If anything, it needed to be advertised before such a horrible change, but it probably would have just pissed off the slightly larger community that it might have had.

yeah good point. it was probably a bad idea to advertise before, and it was probably a bad idea to advertise after, and it is probably a bad idea to advertise now, and it is probably a bad idea to ask for money in exchange for something, ever, and it is probably a good idea to die and not make you pissed of by existence. good input, thanks.

what are you basing this on?

No fee to play? Website to connect? Low requirements compared to average hardware? No need to download specific mods?

Quakes relative popularity will never be what it was before CS came along, so its relative popularity has to be gauged against the percentage of people who liked it out of those who tried it.

Those with no interest in trying it are just as relevant.

what are you basing this on? you are missing the entire point of why MARKETING exists. people are not attracted to things they do not know about.

Yeah, and the type of people who play this game do not have options - they are already playing it. This is why Q3 was reduced to a very small community, and then Q4 was reduced to the same players, and then those same players went back to Q3, and finally, they are all that is left in QL.

uh what the hell are you basing this one? at the start, the demand was absolutely huge, which is why projected usage was in a million. the subscription model is no more horrible than the entire notion of free market and equal exchange.

It wasn't huge, though. Even at its absolute peak in the first few days, it was paltry compared to other games. The free market is a horrible notion, but that's off topic - the subscription model is bad, even compared to other games that use a subscription model. Trying to force it on this genre could never work.

as if? yes, as if now popularity can generate income as opposed to when it couldn't. as if.

Except the subscription model will turn most people away - even people who are big fans of Quake on this site are reserved about paying for it. It would probably earn more by being entirely free, while supported by ads or microtransactions.

yeah good point. it was probably a bad idea to advertise before, and it was probably a bad idea to advertise after, and it is probably a bad idea to advertise now, and it is probably a bad idea to ask for money in exchange for something, ever, and it is probably a good idea to die and not make you pissed of by existence. good input, thanks.

It's a bad idea to ask for money in this fashion, at least for this genre, and on a product that doesn't already have an established market. Sometimes, it's even good to run at a loss, if it means that you can secure future customers.

http://www.esreality.com/post/1573461

in other news...id is re-releasing doom3 for the 999999th time
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2725820

Sincerely you can't expect anything from a company that's been on the ropes for about 5 years.

lol autoreply

Funny thing about doom3 and rage is casual players liked them quite a lot, while doom and quake fans find them to be an abomination.

My problem with it is id's been milking their old games for years, without releasing anything new or supporting them afterwards. I can see a rage expansion or remake before doom4 or decent support for QL.

I think Doom 3 was an awesome single player game.

What I don't get is how they announce new lighting system and stuff, and now it looks like it looked on D3 with a good PC, but I don't see soft shadows or anythnig new.

And it kinda sucks that PC players cant play the new levels.

PS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_e...IkrQK60N-4

This looks amazing. It seems like finally dept of field is going to be useful in games. I really want that on PC now

No one is interested in QL, they would rather play CoD/BF/CS

Take QL engine and turn all maps into towns/cities/buildings etc. Turn all skins/models into army type characters, turn railgun into sniper rifle - lg into minigun, rocket launcher into RPG... but retain all quake physics exactly as it is now.

Result is ten million active players.

kthxbye

hhhmmmmmmmm dunno.
Because the "realistic" weapons and ambientations wouldn't accord well with the crazy physics/model proportion

result: RTCW?

I tried RTCW and the physics where fuck all like q3, I meant take QL and simply 'reskin' it into a COD clone.

Here you go