it's always been like that. There's one or two top american players but the rest is way behind. Also,
COOLLER GREATEST QUAKE PLAYER OF ALL TIME. ALWAYS FIVE STEPS AHEAD. RUSSIA ALWAYS FIVE STEPS AHEAD. RUSSIA > AMERICA AT QUAKE FOREVER! GOD BLESS COOLLER!
Rapha coming to EU this week was like watching Invasion of Normandy - he just came there and raped practically everyone EZ mode.
But in all seriousness, although dkt and dahang placed good on DH, that wouldn't be the case if Stermy, fox, tox, cooller, av3k, k1llsen and other notable top EU players attended.
It's irrelevant. It doesn't mean hes the best player right now. Cypher's game could have been off today, raphas game may be off the next time. IMO there's more to it than just saying this guys the best right now because he's won the most tournaments in the past. Shits getting deep.
rapha stomped the whole weekend, including the final. Did we see the same event?
rapha lost at last dh because of very notorious mouse problems, which also happened to him at prior tournaments (can't remember which ones), and all top players say he is clearly the best. All 3 are known facts.
you cant conclude that someone is a better player because they win 1 bo5? CONGRATULATIONS! youre a fucking idiot. Thats exactly what it means, rapha is the most consistent quakelive player and you euros just need to get over it hes better than cypher. Get over it GG
you should be happy that rapha avoided eveil or pavel... Evil on a good day can shut rapha out of the map just like rapha does to other players.. + cypher wasn't playing on his mouse; it was an abyssus yes. but it wasn't his..and btw if av3k attended he would have take it..Av3k in shape is unstoppable..Rapha, Coller, Cypher can't do shit vs that style.
Euros always think they are superior but I have not seen anything to make me think that the average euro player is. truth is there is no way to tell and I wish euro trash would just get over it. Rapha is the best quake player ever and america is #1. EAT IT NERDS
the general standard is a lot higher in europe for whatever reason, probably interent more than anything else.
But USA has always had exceptions like fat/czm/zero4 and now rapha who were second to none.Socrates deserves to be in that list too as he had more personality and could hang with anyone on a good day.
ok ok...we'll eat it.. chill out, get a burger and feed that 300 pounds ass of yours.. America #1...yes...in average people weight you sure take all the cups. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-y5l6Jt5XZlQ/TwW7u0f...nator4.jpg
Get te point?? You can have your quake champion;)
1. Drop cooller.
2. Drop avek.
3. Drop killsen.
4. Drop poni.
5. Subpar spartie.
6. Subpar cypher.
7. Subpar weird.
8. No agent.
9. No stermy.
10. No strenx.
11. ????
12. PROFIT
IMO I actually played fine in my game vs spart1e and all games after that (some practise/warmup matches).
If my demos are somewhere I practised vs dahang just before my games vs spart1e and during those games I regained my normal level of play... which allowed me to play really close to spart1e.
I DIDN'T EVEN MENTION DAHANG, CZM, ZERO4, ETC! AMERICA IS SO FAR BEYOND EUROPE IN SKILL! THE GAP CANNOT BE CLOSED BECAUSE WE AMERICANS HAVE PENISES FAR BEYOND EUROPEAN COMPREHENSION AND THAT'S WHAT WE USE TO RAPE YOU IN QUAKE! TASTE FUTILITY AND WEEP! EUROPEAN TEARS MAKE OUR ECONOMY UNSTOPPABLE!
that says it all. Hungary = dark green. before any of you start talking shit to hungarians again, remember we laught at your tiny penis. no matter where ur from. =))))))))
I don't even know why people are arguing about that, here are the facts everyone knows: rapha is the best player right now and was the best player for a longer period of time now, but COOLLER could have easily won, if he would have decided to win. Only 10 US players in top100 according to qlranks and 70 EU players, if you count Russia in (with 17players in top100).
I see a lot of raged americans here.... inferiority complex, maybe?
Aniway americas is not overall stronger, actually: only Rapha, but rapha is another category; behind him, where are americans?
And, mostly, all that bullshits doen't have the minimum sense: there is a lot of ignorance around, both from americans and from europeans, so if you didn't know it: americans are not raised up from the soil ,like zombies: they are europeans, all kinds of europeans, that have come to america after his discovering by Christopher Columbus, guess who? an european, and an italian for more precision, in the 1492;
So any american (white at least) have europeans ancestors; so instead of asking who is better between rapha or whoever it would have more sense to ask how much italian, french, spanish, belarusian, english, belgian rapha is.
no, i'm not mad about these things.
Just because culturally and genatically also europeans and americans are very similar.
And also, being european, in my favourite players there are coolleer and rapha, that are very similar in some points.
Also i liked Fatal1ty, the legend, for his attitude to the esports etc.
Columbus didn't discover America. The Vikings came here before him (and got their asses kicked by the natives and left), there is evidence that the Chinese came here before them and obviously there were already 20-100 million natives living here. We get the majority of our founding principles from the Native culture that was flourishing until a plague wiped 95%~ of them out before the pilgrims came. There are so many misconceptions on the founding of America and there is a lot more to it than "White people came and tamed the savages."
Incorrect history aside, that is a stupid argument. It's so weird how any other country is allowed to root for their particular players or teams but as soon as someone chants USA USA, there is a swift onset of butthurt.
I dont disagree with what u said, but the USA USA is actually funny. It is the way and the occasions u do it. It has nothing to do with butthurt. It is just funny and not in a bad way. U probably wont understand why, if u r not from another country and is hard to explain, but for example there is no way that when spart1e plays in Sweden the Swedish will start to scream Sweden Sweden. They might do in other occasions, but the occasions u choose (every occasion) and the way u do it, is funny. Every country has some funny habits.
"Columbus didn't discover America. The Vikings came here before him (and got their asses kicked by the natives and left), there is evidence that the Chinese came here before them and obviously there were already 20-100 million natives living here."
I also heard that maybe even the Romans arrived in America vithout knowing/staying; but still that doesn't change the point that Columbus opened the way of the colonization of the america by the europeans, that are the actuals white americans; black americans of course came later by Africa, carried by the slavists;
"We get the majority of our founding principles from the Native culture"
Never ever heard of that; can you make examples of the principles you are talking? seriously, i'm not ironic, just sceptic, because the Constitution have been made by the foundators following the moral principles in which they lived at that epoque;
""White people came and tamed the savages." I've never said that, and the "savages" part is controversial and doesn't really feat with the topic;
"It's so weird how any other country is allowed to root for their particular players or teams but as soon as someone chants USA USA, there is a swift onset of butthurt."
I agree: i hate it too: Rapha, for example, is a great people, and also Czm and Zero4 were; i also hate the reversial proceed, in which someone should be better only because is American
The Natives were far more advanced than people give them credit for. The Iroquois had a very modern system of power. The Iroquois had freedom of speech, freedom of religion, separation of power in government and checks and balances. The plague that killed off 95% of the Natives before the States were colonized was the largest in human history and mostly ignored. Most historians now believe the population was somewhere between 50-100 million while Europe at the time was around 70 million. There are a lot of great books about all of this stuff out there and unfortunately most of what is taught ignores a lot of historical facts.
The Natives also had massive cities (Cahokia was larger than London in 1250) with satellite villages, complex trade routes, an idea of personal hygiene and cleanliness and were generally a pretty badassed culture. The colonists actually had a problem with Europeans running off to live with the Natives because they were so baller.
"No European who has tasted Savage Life can afterwards bear to live in our societies." -Ben Franklin
By the way, in this dreamhack the only other american to did well has been dahang, but he also have been lucky that pavel and evil had to face cypher because of the shitty brackets; not to mention if there would have been Av3k; and killsen;
the "stand your ground law" allows you to use lethal force to defend yourself but americans are basically starting to use it as a license to kill, shooting someone or provoking someone and shoot them when a fight breaks out, of course they will later claim to have stood their ground and just defended themselves.
the NRA and ALEC has pushed for this law and it has been instituted in IIRC almost half of the US' states, since then the number of so called "justifiable homicides" has skyrocketed.
also considering the amount of stupid gun nuts over there its just a matter of time before a real crisis breaks out especially if george zimmerman should be found not guilty (although i guess they'll make an example out of his case and convict him of 2nd degree murder)
ye but "stand your ground" works without the duty to retreat. in self-defense cases the burden of proof is on the defense to show that their client has acted reasonably, with stand your ground you dont have to retreat from a place you have a right to be in.
i think i can see where some people are going with this kind of subject ( and OP in the first place)... it's not just about quake live right ?...
Personnally i feel annoyed to see nice (and normal) people like rapha and CZM being associated with such a crappy "debate".
1.Rapha is the most successful QL player.
2.Cooller is the most successful Quake player.
3. If rapha keeps playing and cooller definitely retires, he has great chances of becoming the most successful Quake player.
But to those that see the bigger picture, we are all part of the same fucking planet, we should just enjoy the great players and epic matches they bring. Sadly small minded people get trapped in the "divide and conquer" mentality that the elites has trapped us into.
I don't think cooller was the most successful player in any game he played, including quake3, quake4 and quake live. He wasn't the one who won the most tournaments in any of those for example nor made the most money out of gaming.
If I were to pick the most successful quake player in history it has to be thresh, not only considering his "professional" e-sports career, in which he stomped everyone at several games for years (sort of a real fatal1ty), but also how he used that platform afterwards (only millionaire in this industry that has that background).
Cooller won many major lans in quake3, quake4 and quaklive in the span of 10 years.
Thresh ruled but only for a couple of years. Him becoming a millionaire talks well of his bussiness talent, but has nothing to do with the topic at hand, best quake player. Also on thresh time the scene was relatively new and not so developed, cooller on the other hand was able to evolve as the skill level progressed.
Can't find anything about his achievements. Seems like his site, wikipedia article and all that don't exist anymore.
But just from memory, I don't remember cooller winning more than 2 major global q4 lans, he only won one in ql and that wasn't global (iem europe), and he dominated q3 for about one year, though I wouldn't say there was a period of time in which he won all the tournaments or the most that year. He recently retired after knowing he has no chance of winning (his words).
It's true he kept playing for years, but it's also true he had breaks that lasted years and the fact every single top quake live dueler was notorious in the early q3 years just like cooller or even had a better reputation those days.
Thresh was the guy that developed almost all the duel basics that are still being used (zero4 and rapha are from that "school" for example), and truly dominated every single game he played (won every single tournament in which he participated, or didn't win just 1 or something) besides starcraft. That was at the time quake had its peak, and more players means more competition, and his peak lasted a lot more than cooller's anyway.
When he retired he created firingsquad and associated sites, then xfire and raptr, so he became a millionaire based on competitive gaming. No one else has done that.
I'm a cooller fanboy too and couldn't care less about "e-sports history", but if you played when all this started you just have to admit cooller has nothing on him, neither does fatality for example (even with all the shit you can say about him he objectively won more tournaments than cooller did). Cooller simply wasn't the best in any game he played, so there are more notorious people than him in quake3 (etc) and similar games.
I'd say cypher is more successful than cooller actually, as he has won (and runner up) more lans than him and truly dominated q3.
then why didn't you win lol. Fatality, czm, cooller, fox, etc. also played at that time but they weren't good enough to be even top999 of their countries.
I don't remember you as a top player?!
Also played at that time? what was their age? 5 y.o.?! C'mon, it is well known that thresh has been a pioneer, a very good player, but not much more than this.
Oh, now I get it. It's deja vu or is it called precognition? You react to something awkward you are about to do. Kind of makes sense, but let's get back on topic.
I hate when threads like this pop up after international tournaments. Regardless of country of birth(like ANYBODY has a choice?!) I always saw the DH final as a battle between the most talented player(Cypher) and the most prepared player(Rapha).
When you're #1, there's only you and everybody else -- and all of them are watching you and your demos and studying your play. Nobody is a better student than Rapha(think Z4), and he definitely did his homework. Nobody expected quite this particular kind of play(think Calipt's numerous comments), and the results show. What did Cypher have to push him forward? Nothing to prove, nowhere north of #1 to go...except now it's his turn to improve and reverse engineer the Rapha, because if he can't there are players close behind to step up.
Yep, as I was typing I thought "I know I'm feeding a troll here, but still wanna get this off my chest regardless." I think I only have him a few crumbs though.