While some people claim 2233rz has some input lag, I'm just in love with it and I'm sure many users think alike.

That was actually an easy one *not* to pick because the price range being asked is pretty outrageous for a 22" 1680x1050 monitor, 120hz or not. $300 new if you can find it, and not at all worth it.

Same with the ASUS VG236H, found for $350 (http://www.amazon.com/Asus-VG236H-23-Inch-3D-...pd_cp_pc_0). It's a rather easy pass for this one because for $45 more (with the BenQ) I get full swivel/tilt controls for the monitor, 1" larger in size, and a better response time

ASUS has terrible reviews and users report a lot of problems (half screen black etc)

2233RZ is extremely hard to find nowadays, I don't really mind it being 1680x1050 and prices were much lower when I first bought it.

I've had the ASUS for over a year and I am very pleased with it. I find the monitor a much better experience than the 2233rz that I've sidelined.

Thanks for chiming in, VoO. I hear alot of owners that say they are happy with the ASUS monitor, and it gets great reviews.. but I do see the frequent poster talking about quality issues with ASUS' current production line. The VH236H, VH222H (which i have now) and similar models seemed to get the most praise for reliability, cost and performance out of their recent (past 2-3yrs) monitor offerings, and I can attest to their value.

Glad yours is working out well for you, it's definitely on the list of considered models right now ^_^

Well I have the VG236H ($350 at the time) and it is by far the best monitor I've had. Did not like BenQ that they used at Dreamhack Winter 2010, not sure which one that was.

I have a VG326H as well and it's been a great monitor. You can find them for under $300 pretty often now. I got mine for $280 shipped a few month back from B&H. Definitely the best value/performance ratio out there for 120hz.

I can vouch for the ASUS too, as an avid CRT user i made the leap over to LCD a year ago and havent had regrets ^^

So the glossy panel is not as bad after all ?
http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen6318.html

Did u ever played an IPS panel ?

imo, glossy can be a pain in the ass only if you have some strong light sources (ie sun) which impact the screen. I had an old samsung 19'' next to the window... impossible to work without curtains

afaik, IPS response time is higher than twisted nematic, but I guess you would check the overall input lag as a comprehensive figure of merit.

The Asus VG278HE is incomming, maybe too expensive ^^
http://geizhals.at/eu/?phist=807004
http://pcmonitors.org/asus/asus-vg278he-a-144hz-monitor

anyone needs a kidney for 500EUR? =P

>8-p grow up !

touche' :)
this monitor would be awesome for playing quake.
I don't say it's too expensive, but a brand-new design + 27'' is exagerated for ql gameplay only, that's why I think it's not worth the price.

did anyone test the difference between nvidia and amd 3D? or, better, did anyone give a f*** about 3D?

has anyone bought / tested this?

sounds great to me 8D

Quote: afaik, IPS response time is higher than twisted nematic

I know that, usless to ask Vo0 about any kind of IPS panel ..., the new 60Hz "gaming" panel from Eizo Foris FS2333 is useless too @ 75Hz fullHD

ql-dedicated monitor -> 120Hz are highly recommended (read: mandatory)

what a waste of money if you don't play cpm....

If you look around you can grab a BenQ XL2420T for $400. This is the best 120hz monitor you can buy if you want low response time. (source: http://pcmonitors.org/reviews/benq-xl2420t - PCM2's review, you can find him on many enthusiast hardware forums).

The Samsung S23A750D (although I have read that it's 27" brother is better.) and the LG W2363D (basically a CRT in Thru-mode) are the other 120hz monitors you should be looking at if you want something a bit cheaper than the BenQ. The difference between these and the BenQ are really negligble when run with correct settings, performance wise.

what´s thru-mode?

It removes any postprocessing. It basically ensures the image gets to the panel as fast as possible.

how you need to "enable" it?
LG W2363D have it?

Yes, it has it. No idea about how to enable it, but I guess it's an OSD setting.

yes, in OSD

see this vid ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psFPvJDlQnk

In my research I have been leaning towards the BenQ2420T, which is available for $395 shipped from Overstock.com right now..

Is Overstock.com a good site to order this kind of thing from? Never shopped there before. It's $5 more @ amazon.



The LG W2363D (found here for $255 http://www.amazon.com/LG-W2363D-PF-23-Inch-Wi...B0043D2OEA) is a bit smaller than I was hoping for and seems to get bad reviews alot. It can't really have 0ms input time.. can it? If so why isnt this technology used elsewhere.. lol.

The LG W2363D (found here for $255 http://www.amazon.com/LG-W2363D-PF-23-Inch-Wi...B0043D2OEA) is a bit smaller than I was hoping for and seems to get bad reviews alot. It can't really have 0ms input time.. can it? If so why isnt this technology used elsewhere.. lol.

for 255$ nowadays is a good price jump on it. i cant really compare it to other 120hz monitors as this being the only one i ever saw, but i have it for almost a year and its just great both for quake and everyday use.

YES, i remember the LG W2363D has a bad Test result on the prad.de website, not all the "Test's" are translated in english !

http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen6017.html
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&am...sverhalten

I'd base the decision where to buy a monitor online solely on their return policies. Amazon is very good in that case over here.

> It can't really have 0ms input time.. can it?

Yes it can, with thru mode enabled, the framebuffer is disabled and the monitor draws each frame the moment it receives it, just like a good ole CRT. It doesnt works in 3d mode tho.

Do other LG monitors feature this? maybe something in the 24-27" range?

Why dont other monitors have this feature if it brings response times in-line with CRT's?

Dont know if there are other models with it. Why other monitors dont have this feature? Maybe because the hardcore gamers that research enough to realize the importance of 0ms input lag is tiny, and from that tiny group only a small percentage ends buying it, with many preferring less advanced models like the samsung 2233rz and viewsonics for stupid reasons/fanboyness.

Business are business, and sadly gamers arent very smart at thanking companies that do things right.

buy moar lg thru mode
buy moar zotac
buy moar msi
buy moar asus

bough a zotac card only because of their ql cups \o/

YAY \o/

hmm I wonder if LG would respond favorably to a large petition by gamers to advance this pass-thru technology they have in that model.

With the right sponsorships (MLG, ESA, EVO, etc..) You would think this kind of implementation would gain some major backing from these organizations and in turn help promote the product to gamers more broadly.

Maybe I'm just delusional and the number of people who would like to see this in a monitor is really low (say 10,000-a couple hundred thousand worldwide).. and if that *is* the case.. besides ESR, what would be the best forums to potentially gather backers for a potential petition?

Posting on reddit about petitioning for this would likely turn into an argument about my "entitlement issues" with latency free gaming on flatscreens, LOL.

You make good points bro.

is this a separate forced setting optional on the monitor or something? on those product details it says 3ms

Thru mode is a setting of the monitor, those 3ms is the time it takes for a pixel to change from grey to black or smthg like that, has nothing to do with input lag.

ah okay makes sense ty

youre welcome

i've just bought a new monitor. spent hours and hours reading reviews, forum posts, etc etc to get a good idea of the pros and cons of the price range i had which is the same as yours. ended up choosing the benq xl2420t. it's a really nice monitor and is a million miles away from it's predecessor the 2410 which has a horrible reputation here and elsewhere. once you set up a colour profile and adjust the settings it looks great. couple that with an awesome stand, very low input delay and 3d vision 2 with lightbooster and you've got a sweet bit of kit.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2420t.htm

if you end up choosing the benq go here to get the correct settings and profile for the best colour reproduction possible.

Thank you for the link to the adjusted color profile. I will definitely be adding it to the monitor if I purchase it, as I usually do a 2-4 hour calibration on new monitors and having a head start on this will be comforting if I pick up this monitor, though I will likely still go through and fine-tune everything still.

I had a helluva time getting the sRGB in check with my current ASUS, eventually having to rely on a combination of monitor and video card control panel settings to get really great contrast/colors for movies and such.


Is there also a "gaming" profile available somewhere to get this setup for optimal input-lag and response time? Or, is this something pretty easy and self-explanatory to set up with this monitor?

Thanks!

Why does it have a horrible reputation? I have one and like it a lot. Colours could be better ofc, but I only use it for gaming.

From what I read it suffered from many different issues, one of the most nagging about them was the "reverse ghosting" that seemed to be so prevalent in the 2410. I'm sure it's better than the monitor i'm using right now though! =)

xl2420t isnt rly much better

"Everything considered, including what is a very decent price for a 24” 120Hz LCD monitor and the vast improvements made over its predecessor; it seems that this time, BenQ got most things right."

http://pcmonitors.org/reviews/benq-xl2420t

have you tried them both yourself and compared to other decent 120hz screens?
20t is certainly better than 10t, but there's still extremely noticeable amount of overdrive ghosting compared to other 120hz screens

so h8m3, do you have a monitor in this range you recommend?

hey boss, what do you think about samsung s23a700d ? ~250EUR

I've read that xl2420t *partially solves ghosting thru AMA (that is, a black frame between normal frames), but it's way more expensive (~350EUR) and overall performances are similar.

regarding input lag, some guys say benq has a very low input lag (~5-6ms) compared to samsung (~11-12ms). but I couldn't find any reasonable correlation between input lag and ping, except the 'high ping -> no need for a fast monitor' idea.
I mean, if you have about 30-50ping in ql, what could be a negligible monitor lag?

The ghosting is just noticeable at 60hz, which nobody is going to use with a 120hz. For what I know ghosting at 120hz is, in the worst of the cases, negligible for any display capable of 120hz. I know, I know, they are supposed to be two completely different things but in all reviews I have read of 120hz displays that has always been the case.

Check the 'display comparisons' section here:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2420t.htm

In game should be pretty much unnoticeable, except maybe with a full black object moving through a white background or something like that.

Those links don't provide setup settings for the benchmark programs they run.
That is, those tests are inconclusive.

I dont notice any ghosting on my 2233rz

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130722660960?ssPage...1426.l2649

a monitor cost £7 to deliver royal mail, get them to use DHL for £15

Okay I think I'm going to go with the BenQ XL2420T.

I see on their own order site they stay quite competitively priced with online retailers, so I may just order it directly from them.


Anyone have any leads on a good coupon code for a discount in their store? Found one that would have brought it down to $379.99 but it expired a couple months ago...


Thanks everyone for all of your help! Getting super-excited for my new monitor =)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Nevermind-- I found one that works: MLG$20 Will net you $20 off any new monitor on BenQ's site.


Total cost: $379.00 shipped!

Good choice, I'm sure you will be pleased =) I have it myself, I aim so much better than with a crappy 60hz monitor!

Hi sir. I went from 60 hz to 120hz
and i can tell you surely that there is zero difference.

Bad for you, I got better

Then u just suck at aiming.

Are you blind, sir?

lol? are you sure it works at120hz?

must be timenudge

i bought it as well xl2410t some months ago.
nice monitor, 120hz makes a difference.
its worst problem is ghosting.
first 120Hz monitor I buy, maybe I'll go dual with a s23a700d so that i can make a comparison and review it here.
waiting for h8m3 post tho :)

UPDATE: in the end, i set up properly my monitor and I ran Pixel Persistance Analyzer, in order to see ghosting effects on my monitor.
well, result is here, 1920x1080, same settings as the review, completely different result. does anyone see ghosting?

The link you posted about the ghosting was for the BenQ xl2410t not the BenQ xl2420t :)

my bad. thanks for noticing :)
in fact, i own a xl2410t.

anyway,
xl2420t test here
and here.
seems that AMA reduces a lot the ghosting effect @60Hz, but a sort of halo is still visible.
better behaviour @120Hz (2nd link shows more flaws tho).

both have the same issue.

Do you own anyone of them? In post #45 i found something weird :)
EDIT nothing weird, I just evaluated ghosting by myself. Now I have some doubts about reviews.

The Samsung S23A700D LED has a glossy panel !

i know, but I'll use it mainly "from dusk til dawn" :)
I mean, no external light sources, except a 60W lightbulb.
anyway, thanks for pointing it out!

>8-) it's still a good monitor !
a "hint" maybe use colored lightbulbs for diffuse lightening

I had the s23a700d, but I returned it. The glossiness was just horrible and I had some weird color problems. Got the xl2420t and don't regret it for a second :)

k, thx for the feedback

when monitors are

Max. Resolution: 1920 x 1080 +
Response Time: 2 ms
Display Technology: LED LCD

and back lit is when you get big monirors, glowing screen edges are shit in games

I've tried the xl2420t, and the colors are absolutely horrible, this is coming from a person who is used to s27a750d, which is known to have one of the best color profiles out there, if not the best on a tn monitor.

xl2420t is excelent in everything else, the response time is probably one of the lowest out there and the stand is absolutely fenomenal, but I just could not stand the terrible color quality, the colors are completely washed out, and in many situations blue would look like green, it's the most rubbish quality ive ever seen on a lcd monitor.

if you want low response time the best monitor is the lg w2363d-pf, and it will probably have better picture quality than xl2420 as well as lower input lag.

if you want mediocre input lag and great picture quality, Id say go with a samsung, s23a700d / s23a750 / s27a750d.

Hope this helps your decision making.

This.

I've had the 2420t for over a month now, and after calibrating the settings to get the colors in check, it's a very nice monitor. Colors look great after setting things up properly, not the best, but when balanced with everything else in this monitor I think that it was the right one =)

just ordered the s27a750d

idk if 27" aint to big.. looking at these screens in a nearby store felt like having a tv infront of me while 22-23" was a little to low. the only screen in the 24-25" range seems to be the benq tho and the poor reviews regarding its colors discouraged me quite abit.

it was a race between the xl2420t and the s27a750d for me and in the end i thought - the xl2420t may have a size easier to adapt to & maybe (no good tests for the samsung) lower input lag but at the cost of lower color range and overdrive ghosting compared to the samsung.

so i felt like not buying something exclusively for quake but a good product overall. the 27" may feel to big now but maybe in a few years thats standart (considering average size has always gone up so far)

im anxious to test it, coming from a 19" 60hz =)

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/3136/17-gamin...e-ultimate

I am using the iiyama ProLite G2773HS.
Its pretty big but U will get used to it fast.

Info can be found here :
http://www.iiyama.com/nl_nl/producten/prolite-g2773hs-1/

Does it make sense to limit your cg_maxfps to 120 if you are playing at 120hz? or should you keep it to the classic 125?

125, so you send 125 packets per second (the max). Fps and packets per second have always been linked in the Quake 3 engine. Also, by capping your FPS at 120 you'd get the worst tearing ever (unless you use vsync).

In general higher fps is better no matter your refresh rate because it decreases the rendering lag (if you rig can handle it that is) and tearing. Example: 60fps = 16.67ms per frame, 120 = 8.67 >>>> 120fps is more responsive even on a 60hz monitor.

Easy to try by yourself if your rig can handle super high framerates in Q3. Use your monitor in 60hz mode and try 60fps, 100, 125, 200, 333 etc. Your game should feel better and better as you up the framerate. (note that in the original Q3 there are side effects because framerate affects physics for the client, solved in CPMA and QL)

Just a quick recap isn't this annoying every time i see threads about plasma's and LCD screens , people talking about Hz like they were talking about CRT monitors its plasma the scale is in ms ... the best monitor you can get noways is the 1 ms respond time why you mix all this craps with Hz and fps and vsync 's ....

Conclusion:

If you wanna be good get a monitor HD FULL... with 1ms respond time that's it all ...

ignore the "cg_refreshrate" from noways games they are focus only for CRT monitors !


plat

[-]

rofl

uh nope