There's also a full question-by-question time line of topics at the link.

cheers for that but please, if you're going to be doing a 1.5 hour interview, which I appreciate, use a mic that doesn't pick up all the background noise, this is incredibly annoying to listen to

when was this recorded?

That would be 1337 years ago

[Note: This interview was conducted in March]

tl;dr: confirmed tox let fatality win the first bo3 at wsvg

damn fatality is such a cheater. Like more than half of his tournaments are absolutely fake

Still don't buy it. 2gd clearly doesn't like fatal1ty and he's letting that cloud his judgement. fat beat cooller and scorates to get to the final, did they let him win aswell?

He says fatal1ty stomped tox in the first bo3 when really he won just 4-3 on phrantic and then won his map placebo. Fatal1ty won placebo again in second bo3 aswell. I mean we see high scores all the time like just yesterday evil lost 20-2 vs k1llsen does that mean k1llsen dropped 2 maps to make it go all the way?

I agree. Additionally, while he wants to bash fat he doesn't realise that he bashes tox too for being buyable.

Agree, 2gd's hatred of fat is well known but I don't think he realizes he through toxjq under the bus here as well. This is an attack on his character and integrity.

the guy bets on horse races

did you watch the games, the interview and fat's background?

I thought it was staged when I was watching it live. Tox was doing really weird things like rushing healthy opponent with MG off of spawn (specifically on placebo, if i remember correctly). Totally uncharacteristic of him and the difference in his play between the sets was night and day.

Add to that the fact that they had some kind of sponsorship meeting before the final...

so fatal1ty PAID toxic to let him win a set then fuckin humiliate him on monsoon and phrantic? worst bribe in history.

Taking that set from toxjq contributed a lot to his q4 career, which had 0 major feats before that. Fat even had to host his absurd probably staged invitationals to have q4 wins.

his achievement here is getting to the final. losing to toxic didn't do shit for him.

he took a set out of tox, the best q4 player ever. That's quite an achievement but the match and circumstances were fishy as hell.

And with what has been said on this thread the prior matches are also dubious.

Tox often lost the 1st set of Bo3 in a DE final. Most of the time his opponent would come from the looser brackets final straight to the final while tox had to wait for the looser brackets to finish.

And him rushing is him warming up his aim, watch his games against av3k on placebo (was always his worst map in q4), as soon as he sees no hope in turning it around he rushes like mad.

In this particular game fat managed to string a good amount of rails together with gave him an early lead.
This was also the only map where fat stomped him, on phrantic fat did get an early lead and then went super defensive (and fat always was an excellent defensive player).

This interview, while late, is of the the most interesting type of esports journalistic content. Questions about legitimacy, difficulty, talent, and such are always taboo, and very rarely do we see them discussed honestly, but they do give us more insight on the interviewed than the usual "everybody is good, let's move on" type stuff.
And besides having the understanding to ask these questions, Thorin also has the knowledge to ask on obscure yet monumental historical stuff. Awesome. Liked & favourited.

interesting interview. thanks.

however, i think his dream of a 1v1 fps game being huge if it sticks to the same mechanics as quake is unrealistic.

the only way back is to modernise the gamestyle.

He's talking about core mechanics, not the same mechanics.

Core mechanics could be anything like multiple weapons, health and armor on the map, time keeping, strafe jumping (varied forms), etc.

Needless to say, with those core mechanics you could make several very, very different games.

I want a new, real Quake deathmatch game though.

i agree that some of the core mechanics can be kept, it depends how you package them.

for instance, the weapons and their physics is what makes fastpaced fps what they are.

a powerful and unrealistic movement aswell.

health and armor control is a dated concept though and pretty unappealing to the uniniatiated.

I think that the team and 1v1 style play need something seriously new.

also, a proper movement oriented gametype is also a must - something like mariokart, but themed in the fastpaced fps way.

"Modern" is just something that currently captures attention of majority. At some point someone will release something new, and people's attention will switch to it, and it will become new "modern". If someone manages to make an interesting Quake-mechanics game, it will become "modern" too. Mechanics is not that most people even really aware of, let alone judge the modernity of the game based on it.

surely a game that has only quake mechanics is uninteresting as its been done loads of time and dates back to the first fps's.

It's not mechanics that makes all those games uninteresting.

what is it then?

imo, its the mechanics that scare off alot of people from the 'competitive' gamemodes. this pure DM item collection style has not changed since Fps's were invented. I think such systems are not intuitive, create a barrier to playing, dont spread the fun around evenly and artificially inflate the skill gap.

i havent followed quakelive scene in a while, but i would guess its the easier to pickup and play gametypes that are doing well and the hardcore dm ones that arent?

*quick look indicates its pretty much all CA & FFA. QED

It's not mechanics per se, but the fact that player is instantly thrown into it and is required to master it before he is allowed to have fun. I.e. the problem is that the way the mechanics is presented to new player is not suitable for the level of its complexity that Quake has.
One possible solution is to make a deep atmospheric single player campaign that can get the players really hooked. Then, with cleverly designed and written single-player training scenarios disguised as part of the story, it's easy to make players learn mechanics, even if it's really complex. After that they can pretty easily begin having fun in multiplayer.
In current Quake, the order of things is wrong: players need first to be frustrated and master the counter-intuitive mechanics, and only then they are hooked.

or you change some of the mechanics to something more intuitive?

why does the current form of item and weapon control have to remain intact.

it is this that creates the entry barrier yet it is not the only way to create incentives to move around the map or the only form of map control.

the character and fun of fastpaced dm games comes from the dynamic movement and weapon mechanics, not from this antiquated control system imo.

There are lots of things that can be done different from Quake, I'm just saying that in Quake-style games the trouble lies not in mechanics.

where is the trouble then?

from the quakelive serverlist, its clear to see that the unpopular gametypes are the ones that rely on this item control and where you get raped even with tiny differences in skill.

Experiment:
1. Take a cockroach, clap loudly with your hands, cockroach runs.
2. Cut off cockroach legs, clap loudly with your hands, cockroach doesn't run
3. Conclusion: cockroaches hear with their legs
To seriously answer your question I can repeat my post #62, I think it describes very well where exactly is the trouble.

fast paced fps is all about multiplayer and your suggesting a huge, long and hard to make single player experience with wishy washy objectives (time 5 RA's to stop the waves of monsters...?) in order to get people into the multiplayer side of things.

in the competitive world of online games, you have about 5 mins to make an impression on a player to hook him and trying to hook players to an MP focused game with a single player experience just doesnt work.

i think you are good demonstration, quakers are stuck in the past and refuse to move and push their gameplay of choice forward, instead asking and expecting everyone else to move backward.

anyway, we have both made our points now.

btw, your 'experiment' comparison is totally retarded...

fast paced fps is all about multiplayer and your suggesting a huge, long and hard to make single player experience with wishy washy objectives (time 5 RA's to stop the waves of monsters...?) in order to get people into the multiplayer side of things.

No, I'm suggesting something deep and interesting, that makes players hook on it instantly, which is completely not what you describe.

in the competitive world of online games, you have about 5 mins to make an impression on a player

That's why you need to give player first five minutes that he will remember for his whole life. And one of the easier ways it can be done is by making a great story. Obviously it should be an actually great story, and not something a random person on ESR thinks I mean by a "great story".

i think you are good demonstration, quakers are stuck in the past and refuse to move and push their gameplay of choice forward, instead asking and expecting everyone else to move backward.

I think you want to recognize more in what I say than I actually say.
I just tell one simple thing that quake mechanics can be done in a way that is hugely interesting for average gamers and thus becomes "modern". I am not telling that it should be done, I am not telling that it shouldn't be done, I am not telling that I want it to be done, I am not telling that I don't want it to be done, I am not telling that I don't want the mechanics to be done differently, etc, etc, etc, etc, I am not telling anything of that, you're completely imagining it all in your head.
What I am telling is that IF it happens so that some game has quake mechanics, then it doesn't NECESSARILY follow that it turns out to be an uninteresting game.

anyway, we have both made our points now.

My point certainly haven't been understood by you and I'm sorry that I am not able to make it more clear.

i understand quite clearly i think - you want to use something really interesting and storybased in order to introduce and hook people to the boring and well known mp game mechanic of running around a map collecting items as they spawn...

Did I say that I want anything?

i assume you dont want a dead game?

What I want is completely different question from what I'm talking about (and to that entirely offtopic question the answer is - yes I don't want a dead game).

its not offtopic at all: this whole discussion started off about why quake style games have declined, and i posited that this was due to the antiquated gametypes and modes that had very little appeal for more modern gamers.

And it was never about my personal preferences of what games I like or want, and I never expressed any such preferences.

by "grilled" you mean stoned?

"you know they were like"

POsted by Thorin?

Should have been posted by Mr Florin instead for added hilarity

should have asked him why bridge to rail is such a sorcery.
>.<

No blog about it on fragbite?

Good one. And nice to have someone that experienced and articulate promoting the quake gaming/viewing experience.

Wonder if any of those views have changed in the meantime. Isn't ql effectively at the "do or die" stage right now?

Awesome interview.

Cliffnotes anyone?

Great interview, thanks to both Thorin and 2GD.

2gd you smoke weed?;)

"So when fatalolity is loosing or under pressure he's probably like "Guys. I got this. Team America, fuck yea." :DDDDDDDDDDddddzfsxgfdsg

I was in pain from laughing so much at that point :D

Someone needs to make a gif/lolcat type photo from that.

Entertaining stuff, thanks for posting , timestamps helped quite a bit as well.

tox and fatality probably split the grand prize, that match was indeed very fishy...

toxjq

corrected :P

actually in the match he was Toxic and not Toxjq.
!!!

true, but "toxjq" is more classy and unique

Its subjective.

2gd is like a naughty boy in a mans boys.

First interview on the road with some car/truck sounds !!
Second with some open hal where everyone jelling !!

ARE YOU FUCKIN KIDDING ME ?

Man ... do you next interview at the WC !! At last i will hear/understand something !!

substance over quality brav

what quake is all about


deal with it.

great stuff as always Thorin, thanks

I'm so telling blunt that jay said he sucked in a video interview =)

I actually remember playing dota with/against forrest in the invite channels and stuff a looong time ago. He started out pretty new and improved INSANELY fast and I think he was even a beast in ra3 so I can definitely see what 2gd is saying there :E.

GeT_RiGhT also said that forrest is insanely gifted, whatever he plays, no matter what platform (xbox/ps3/pc) he's just becoming a beast in no time. He said also that he got beaten in every game they both played for fun.

I can confirm the ra3 rumor, he did very well.

toxic is the goat

Goatsic

According to 2GD:

Most talented gamer: F0rest
Most intelligent gamer: Rapha
Best gamer under pressure: Fatal1ty
Gamer to most likely to cause an upset: Fazz

Favourite all around gamer who's got "everything" according to him: Fox


Fun to know.

everyone agrees on fox.

would like to know how he would rate it if it was quake3/live only.
Somehow I always saw Spartie as the most overall gifted/skilled player, a player that could (and to some degree have) dominate in all quake3/live game types.

Spartie is one of my favourite players to spec, especially when he is in good shape, excellent timing, great aim, agressive style etc but he's also quite uneven.. Might be, especially in duel cause he plays only a fraction of how much most other top players plays.

Would be interesting to se how good juvenile could become in duel and ctf. He also seems to be a very talented gamer.

I would put CZM up there ahead of Spartie.

No cooller love?

He creates a strange category "Gamer to most likely to cause an upset: Fazz" to include his reborn mate, and puts also reborn mate fox as the all round gamer whos got everything... But the most interesting personality of quake by far, also the one who kept winning 1st quake prizes for the longest time is nowhere to be find? strange...

He didn't create a strange category, he just answered it with fazz and ofcourse it makes sense he names them and also use them for HIS Reborn project cause he actually think they're that good and could help improve his game.

I see, marketing over truth to push his project.

He knows Fazz and Fox well so he's in a good position to judge their skills.

"Marketing over truth to push his project" - how does that make any sense? Reborn did not look like it was ever going to get off the ground at the time of this interview.

Why would Cooller win either of the categories you listed? Most likely to cause an upset no, he's considered to be up there with the very best, so if he wins it's not an upset. Best all round gamer - as far as I know he's only played competitively in Quake. He has a very distinctive style and a lot of skill, but he doesn't seem to show much passion for it or for any other games. Lack of knowledge on my part here, but has he ever been known to play any other games? Pro or casually? Far as I can tell Fazz and Fox are much better choices than Cooller for the categories.

To add some random fazz fanboyism:
Remember back in the early 00's when he played in team-sweden beating Italy in the Q3 nations cup, then a few days later played for the swedish UT2003(4?) team winning over italy again the UT nations cup?

Now, maybe that says more about the level of UT play than anything else, but still I think very few players manage to just casually play at the very top of different games at the same time.

truth :> just cause you believe cooller to be the most talented and most intelligent gamer ever doesnt mean he actually is

Wasnt 2gd who made the questions, so obviously he didnt create a strange category so he could include fazz. Also i fail to see how coollers "interesting personality" is relevant. After all its 2gds opinion, not necessarily the absolute truth.

My bad then about questions made, anyway cooller getting no mention at all when talking about icons is lolz imo...

This is a forum and i also not necessarily have the absolute truth but i can share my opinion, no need to defend 2gd who was a pro player, is a great caster, well he does what most of us can only dream off. That doesnt means hes perfect and prolly suffer from ego issues like everyone, i was wondering if there was something particular towards cooller.

most ninja: cypher

vo0 gets my vote over forest
vo0s proven to be one of the best on multiple games
as far as i know, forest has only done it in one game.
sorry 2gd, but keeping up with you in quakelive tdm doesn't impress me much, especially considering the fact that the person who kept up was a quake veteran

Was this interview recorded before 2gd announced his Reborn project?

No, he announced it then went back in time to record the interview thanks to fox inventing time travel.

whats the mystery of ztrider all about?

edit: i kind of remember him picking up QL at the beginning and playing TDM q4 at a high level. So, its about his disappearance?

It's pretty much as 2GD described. He was a very talented player who didn't bother to practice but still managed to beat really good opponents. He did well in PK and Q4 for someone who didn't practice a lot. I don't really remember his q3 history though.

I remember talking to him a couple times before he got into the pro scene...very nice guy!

iirc he played some vq3 tdm and cpm duel. And he'd rape just the same he did in q4/pk while giving negative fucks.

now thats the questions i wanna hear
best gaming interviewer and not like other where they repeat same questions over and over again...

got an ear infection after watching this D: not even kidding

i dont know about you guys, but i could hear 2gd talk forever and be entertained.

excellent interview! both interviewer and interviewee (if thats a word)

Well done always great to hear 2GD's views on esports. When he wasn't getting drowned out by the blizzard of voices in the background. Get that 2.5 mil and make a game 2GD!