iCTF but no real ctf? :(

no admins like last year

Yes... sadly, this is indeed the case. We don't dont enough admins to properly supervise for CTF, CA or Duel. Instead, we had to make sure that we have enough people manning the remaining cups. Starting up too many cups and leaving those more or less unregulated was not an option..

i can volunteer to help run a ctf tournament, drop me a pm if youre interested
i miss ctf :(

wat

not enough supervisors?

I like the part where i sat out 3 previous seasons because "all supervisor slots are filled in", "i want my friend to work with me on this cup and he's just done the interview and it will take like 3 weeks to be admitted as supervisor but thanks for the offer" and "we're cancelling events this summer", and now there's "not enough supervisors"?

Did anyone look at the roster of current supervisors? Or at least think back to "oh there's that CTF guy that doesn't have a cup, has just finished kuh3liga CTF, is willing and available"

Did you guys at least ask Q50 whether or not he wanted to supervise CTF as well?

I don't really know about those previous seasons you mentioned, but I know that currently there were basically ~4 people idling clanbase ql crew channel and you were not one of them. I myself wouldn't imagine that you are interested in supervising a cup, if you are not even present on the crew channel just days/weeks before the tournament is supposed to start. I wouldn't look at crew clan website, because it's not really my job, to take care of some random mod (it's not cenix's job either btw), I would only look at TDM.. because I care about TDM. But it seems that you don't care about CTF, because your activity around this tournament started only now, when you just bitch about it.. so, blame yourself.

Btw, it took more than 3 weeks to be admitted as a supervisor for me.

Yes, we asked Q50, he refused.

The reason only 4 people are idling the QL channel is because it is Q-operated , and if you are listed as inactive, then it won't let you in. Yea, i still have op in #clanbase.ql and normal entrance in #clanbase.crew, yet can't enter the ql supervisors or even admins channel, as it's invite-only.

I basically had the same conversation with Perpetual in December 2011 and May 2012, and it seems I am caught in a proverbial catch-22, since I am supposed to apply for cup supervision, prior to the cup announcements, but with no internal communications, and lack of access to the QL-specific admins channel, how am I supposed to know about incoming cups, and the cup divisions? Telepathy? Should I message doz3r, perpetual war, you, key21 and cenix on a daily basis, "hi, do you have a cup for me yet?*bats eyelashes* "

So yea, I find out about clan-base cups on public announcements (either esr or clanbase itself) for the fourth time in a row, and it's my fault for not having access to an automatically-operated channel.

I can understand if people want to bring a friend to work with them in a cup (even if it doesn't work out and they lose interest during the cup, like with Q50), and "we don't have any slots for you in the gametypes you play" is a legit answer as well, even if it is frustrating when it's 3 times in a row and the only reason is "you couldn't enter this channel".

But "we don't have enough supervisors so we won't even do CTF even though we didnt think about you and it's not our job to do so, you should have magically appeared in front of us, and let us know about your initiative somehow" is not frustrating, it's beyond fucking ridiculous.

It's not my job to not-supervise cups in a gone-to-shit organisation full of bureaucracy, broken-telephone politics to the point it's impossible to navigate a gametype for an opencup either. I've done a CTF cup for kuh3liga (that one was problematic, but a fun and learnign experience nonetheless) and a cpm tourney this summer, and I have another cpm duel tourney, an instagib tourney and a qw endif tourney coming up all within the next 3 weeks that I am involved in, so I won't really cry over spilled milk, but it's the CTF community that would have missed out on a whole season if HoQ didn't step in.

Ironically, no-one is to blame either: I couldnt enter an IRC channel to show interest, and you guys didn't even know that I was a supervisor, so it just shows that the current system could use some improvement, as anyone who is not part of your clique but is a supervisor, will keep getting overlooked.

I could perhaps give you a reason why you were not included.

First of all, you had signed in 2(as clan: Pizdec 4 Life, or P4L) of my cups.

The 2 Cups I mentioned:

- http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?lid=12664
- http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?lid=12663
Your clan: http://clanbase.ggl.com/claninfo.php?&cid=2147826

In both cups I had to kick you because you planned 0 games in total and thus had 2 no-shows for each cup. Even in Last season's Nationscups, you didn't plan any games for your team even though you were the "captain".

I could recall pming you on IRC to get you to plan your games. You promised a whole lot but did....... nothing.

In terms of your work as "Supervisor", I will just give this cup as an example: http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?lid=12306

In this cup.... you were one of the supervisors and yet you only made 3 reports for the entire cup(all of which are on the same day btw). Perpetualwar did EVERYTHING else. I guess this shows how much you actually liked being a supervisor?

So ye..... I wonder why you weren't even asked to do an entire cup on your own... i guess it would have worked out fine, right?

There is no need for drama, but since you wanted to state your opinions, here are my rebuttals:

1) The clan for the OC was called "___" and while I was in another city for 2 weeks, the cup progressed and we had to drop out because we were given WOs in the first week, and we just failed (additionally, I would like to say it was a different clan and a different squad)

2) To be pedantic, it was an automated system that kicked me, and if you call "pressing a button" being kicked then go you.

3) During last year's OC Fall season, I don't recall you being a supervisor, so you were not there. I did little reports (granted), but report writing primarily is a referee/writer job and not a supervisor's primary one. I co-supervised the CTF and the TDM OC, and did all the group drafts for CTF, completely wrote the rule+point about streaming and dealt with the normal.

4) I have no idea what exactly you are smoking, but during the nations cup I arranged plenty of PCWs and every single CB match for team UK, as well as holding team introductions/trainings and such.

So yea, apart from my clan of quake players dropping out of an instagib cup (if i wanted to be a total dick i would say the reason we dropped out was because the supervisor fucking up in FTAG, and us losing interest as a result of being given an unfair WO, but I am not an opinionated dick, and that's not how it happened) and "me doing 3 reports" you don't really have an argument? Seems like you are just trying to hide your own complacency with hostility bro.

Sorry for stealing your layout there:

1) Different squad? But the same members are still in the clan, aside from this I guess you had added more members. You were away, but you didn't take the opportunity to tell your oponents + me, leaving us trying to solve your problems. Again, I contacted you many times trying to fix matches between your clan and your oponents'.

All I got were promises that never got fulfilled. You never told me that you were going to discontinue those 2 cups, If I was being told about this I would simply have removed you from the cup and replaced your clan with another. We had to kick some clans because we were "full" and eventually it turned out you wasted a spot. That is not how a Supervisor should behave, is it.

2) It wasn't an automated system that kicked you. I did get warnings from ClanBase that your clan had 2 no-shows, but the decision was still to the supervisors. Since you didn't respond to your challenges at all and it was 3-4 weeks into the cups, I kicked you.

3) http://clanbase.ggl.com/leagueadmin.php?lid=12306 <-- Based on that link you could see that there was only 1 referee/writer during that cup. Aside from your 3 reports, every other report was written by Perpetualwar. Now, he was a Supervisor, wasn't he? So, following your logic, if there was to be 1 Writer in the entire cup. You should let him write the reports without really taking part of it?

Regarding the group drafts. I see that Perpetualwar had posted an initial draft and he switched the teams around according to the feedbacks he received on clanbase. You had 0 comments on the 3 drafts on clanbase comments area :). Perhaps that you did help Perpetualwar with the initial draft, but I dont see how you did that whole thing "alone".

4) I agree that I was a bit harsh on you with this point. You did bring the initial players for UK together. However, in terms planning the games. You were nowhere to be found. If i finally got a hand on you, all I got were empty promises again. I was bugging Disrepute about matters concerning the UK team very often back then and he had to do your job for planning games.

Your final point about the Freezetag supervisor. He did not fuck up. Why did you complain about WO's when you planned 0 games to begin with? This cup took place exactly in line with the iCTF cup from which you got kicked as well. In other words, you failed both cups.

1) I just reused the same clan and changed name because I did not want to create another clan. We got funnyb, rehepapp and nojse (and few other interested players) for pizdec4life. Out of the existing players, drill no longer plays quakelive, same as Ziggypoptastic, NooD is a "maybe if he has time for insta" and I have not managed to get a hold of Dis yet, so it's a completely different team so you can leave all your prejudices behind. Or you can also dig up that ut2004 cup my clan #ank left in OC Spring, and have a look at my duel division 2 group where basically everyone gave themselves a noshow and whole group was BC, Spaniards, 2 WO teams.

2) Besides in those cups, within our first week, despite me requesting a wildcard for our first match against the Spanish dudes in iFT, we were given a WO, which killed our iFT hopes, even though we tried to arrange. Similar thing in iCTF when I was the only player to show up on the day vs TEBRA and we were given a WO. Yes, I "failed" those cups, but odds weren't great and I have no idea what this has to do with my credibility as a supervisor.

And I belive you have my UK team arrangement mixed up with my clanbase OC arrangement, since Dis was in both teams, and he actually was bugged quite a lot about the iCTF/iFT match arrangements. I took the UK captaincy very seriously, and the mere fact you say i wasn't around for those matches/arrangements is wrong..

3) Once again, you were not a member of the supervisors team during the only 2 cups I supervised so you would not be aware of the actual situation, the ongoing discussions regarding players and clans within the 2 cups I supervised, and it simply looks like you are just making excuses for not even knowing I was a supervisor. If PerpetualWar replied here and said he was dis-satisfied with my co-supervision of his cups, then I would understand and not question anything. However, some instagibber with a personal hate-crusade and no real-time idea about what was happening who only waltzed into clanbase after me, it's completely different.

So basically you are showing that you are either extremely opinionated on situations you know nothing about (you were neither a supervisor during OC Fall 2011 nor were you a part of the TDM or CTF community), or you are getting certain facts wrong. I don't mind the opinion and answer wision gave me, since it made sense, however you just seem to be trying hard to make me look bad, due to some sort of disliking (not sure what exactly it could be), since in the same time I "failed" both of those instagib cups, I was also active in 3 quake3 mods, as well as ut2004 and God knows what else.

It is classical ShadyAK, so don't take him so seriously Cenix. He registers teams to cups with fake people so that he can't make them play. He did the same for Q3 ReLoaDeD 3v3 NoGhost Cup and his whole team was banned from the cup. He registered the cup with fake memorial pages and players. So I am not surprised to see he is doing the same for CB cups. What a pity that this kid didn't have love in his childhood and seeks love here.

He spends most of his time to write long posts which are not read by people and sends hate speech messages to q3reloaded.com and probably to other users and he now wants to be a Clanbase admin to cause more harassment to people. Nearly all his posts begin with "Being a CB admin" :) This is why he wants it too much. He wants to use it as a tool to persuade people more in his useless posts. This person without the personality should be taken away from CB cups as he was taken away from q3reloaded cups. We were planning to lift his ban as I personally thought it was an unlucky event, but his posts here under this topic show me that it wasn't an unlucky event and the ban should be extended as he is there not to play Quake but to cause some drama in every cup or event he is involved. Thanks for this detailed information Cenix.

actually all the players were technically real..

just sayin'

I don't know dude, I still have my doubts about ins.

(an insan33333 could easily be faked as a visual illusion, using 3 mirrors and a tall midget)

This just shows how you are still not ready to be a good and fair cup admin, since you tend to ignore things from a neutral point of view, and treat every issue as personal, which is not professional, but you are still new at this and hopefully will learn. (for example, hypothetically if a 4v4 team made of draven, skullhead, q3reloaded.com and zoot signed up any of my leagues, I would not ban them on sight, although I'd probably ask zoot why he's playing with dickheads, advise to make/join a different team. you'd just ban people you don't like from your leagues just for disliking them)

I like how I was able to have a normal, civilized exchange with both wision and slajer, yet the two instagib guys (at least one of which hates me for personal reasons) went on an attempted smear campaign, with minimal factual data which was then exaggerated insanely.

Anyone with at least a minimal amount of English language comprehension will see that I didn't want "admin powers so I could troll people" (wut), I wanted a seasonal CTF league, since the CTF community was sitting out of a cup, which was a reason I was frustrated at the current situation, not missing out on "admin slot". And I personally don't remember at least one instance where I harassed or wrongfully banned people in any of my leagues (something which spans 2 CB oc seasons, one kuh3liga season, and a shitload of standalone one-day cups like this one. I guess organising events for the love of the game rather than some sort of ego-boost (or a chance to ban people) is a new concept to q3reloaded.

When Drayan announced that HoQ was planning to cover a CTF event for this season, all this bickering kind of became irrelevant anyway.

It is not my intention to start a "smear" campaign against you, I merely gave you several reasons why you weren't asked by me, by pointing out some of the stuff you didn't give 2 shits about while you should have if you were to be a supervisor.

I like how you feel victimized while when q3reloaded started a thread on this forum you spammed all of his posts, trying to demonize him. :p O the irony is big in this one. Anyways, I dont wish to be involved in matters between you and q3reloaded. Just saying that the biggest hypocrite might just be you :o

BTW, the data I gave in my posts are facts :)

Facts are:

- You dropped out of 2 of my cups without planning a single game on either of them. You effectively wasted two spots in these cups, which led to other clans not being able to participate while they should have.

- You wrote 3 reports in an entire cup while the other supervisor wrote the rest of the reports, and pretty much wrote everything else in the cup except for tiny part about streaming-rules you wrote.

Again, I was merely answered your question why you weren't asked and therefore I had to give reasons.

If you want to get involved and you can show us(the CB supervisors) that you can indeed dedicate youself to supervising a cup, you are welcome to do so in the future. Talk is cheap :) we want deeds instead.

I don't know if there's some job like "you take care that every mod gets its supervisor" in ClanBase, but if there is, I'm sure the person did good job last season, so I would guess that this season, something went wrong. Shit happens. It's not like we didn't try to get supervisors for other mods.

That automatic handling bot annoys me as well.

Each game has its own sub-section with its own leader who arranges which game modes will get picked, and assigns the supervisor slots to games if there are no supervisors assigned. Perpetual is the QL supervisor, but he is heavily prone to inactivity this season, hence Dafu registered on ESR and listed the current season of Clanbase instead of Perpetual.

HoQ will provide a CTF cup (and have already done the CA 4v4/2v2) so thankfully no communities would suffer (and if there was a dual cb/hoq ctf cup, that would have been problematic for some clans, as twice the activity is required)

Khm,. i guess there have been holes in your training (perpetualwars fault) and/or you never took the time to read the mandatory documents (your fault) for new crew members.

All crew (internal) announcements are done on internal forums to which you do have access to.

As dafu mentioned below your activity might not have been top notch during that cup as a supervisor so i guess perp didn't want to include you.
Supervisor is there to make sure his cup is running smoothly.. therefore if referees aren't around then supervisor has to do their work (entering results).


The main problem this season has been Perpetualwar inactivity, we are aware of that. He will try to fix this and recruit more people so that there can be more cups for fall season.

Thank you for clearing that up, I do have access to the Bobo forums but to my understanding QL cups were decided and picked on internally rather than the official way.

As the reason for me not being included, only Perp would know for sure, as I have spoken with Perpetual quite a lot, and have not heard any personal complaints or reasons for dis-satisfaction from him, but that could just be him being polite, and I did not have a problem with either entering results nor with the creation of reports, nor with any other divisions of duty, and if I was asked to do more reports, I would have done more.

Don't rule me out of future cb events, if current/future supervisors would have no problem in me supervising the gametypes I play in, then I would happily comply, especially if there was a lack of active supervisors

HoQ will be running a CTF league this season. Signups will open on Sunday.

Massive [+]

dats cool, tnx

Drayan, as we all know QL is not in the best state so i wanted to suggest some ideas:

- Old cups are not working anymore. We need faster cups, not 3-4 months please. If you make it long cup people will lose the remaining motivation to play, and that's not too much.
- Put one specific day to play the matches, for example sundays. Or maybe 2 days week but forced to play one or the other.

Imo the perfect model to play CTF now are mix or drafts(1 or 2 days only). With those you are sure the cup will be active, more intense to admin yes, but active enough.

The most important i want to say is that repeating again and again the old cups formats that worked 2 years ago will not work now. The main reason is lack of activity and players.

Well, good luck with the cup.

This man speaks the truth!

Nice, I am looking forward to this cup :) Hopefully that I will be able to get a team together !

I [+]ed you because I like your name )) (you were in CUBISM, right?)

its qubism, but yes, I came up in 2002 when you were a bit inactive and stole your name....since then everyone is asking me "are you the one?" and i`m like "no...i am the other one..."

where can i find you on IRC? lets have a talk about CTF as I think you were active since Q2 CTF

I was around RTCW in the early 2000s + we've established on IRC that I am a different shady ))

We should do a shady role-call :D

TDM:
- Terminus
OH SHIT

replace o5 with o6 :x jebus holy christ.
might as well add dm6, dm7 and do a pick-pick system.
(and if you really wanna spice things up you can remove dm20)

btw, why tornado off the list?

tornado was never on it

list was meant to be figurative word ;< why it's not considered tho?

Actually we removed dm20 before publishing the maplist, but then we checked that it was the most played map across all divisions in previous OC and figured that number of people bitching around about it would be too damn high.

If this is the case, then good call.

Thanks for cup and cool with new maps!

osp5>osp6 though and tornado>dm14 :)

last i remember we were playing vs doz3rs team on tornado and he said it'd never be in a clanbase tournament :D

But I agree with you!

Maps should not be picked or removed from 1x persons opinion. However, perhaps Tornado is not that popular. I just personally want the old maps gone but it seems very hard in this community :(

I'm still content with the rest. Will be a fun season I hope!

I don't really know what you count as old maps, but if you mean TDM maps from Q3, then currently there are only two of them out of 7 maps in the pool. It's not _that_ many as it used to be in the past :).

Yep, that is what I mean. Maps that have been played since beginning of time are just very plain and boring for me personally after all these years. Things are still looking quite nice with this cup though, as I don't want to come out as a whiner but wanted to share my opinion like everyone else! :)

Also, a new map is not automatically better than a old map. Thanks for giving Terminus and Limbus a fair chance. If players like or don't like them will not matter as they will be given a chance now and time will tell if they are good or not.

plus terminus looks awesome

what a joke.. i'd slap [-] if i could..

should have just replaced osp5 and dm14 with lumbus and terminus.

This!

osp6, i am excite

TDM mappool makes my dick rock hard

terminus is so awful :(

I wish I never see game on that map again.

maybe u just suck on it and that's y u h8 it... l2p

maybe u just eat pussy on any decent map and learned to be semigod on q1 and q2 single-player maps? cause terminus looks so alike.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe eating pussy to be a good thing.

It's quake, man, not a hot summer evening at Barbados)
You better skip that foreplay and rape the bitches like a beardy filthy fat truck-driver who's already 3 weeks on his way.

will most likely be in europe again at end of nov-march,some team could sign me up as an extra, have played alot of tdm b4!

ospdm6 :)

Very nice map pool for tdm.

edit: slippery fingers

That was a statement or you wanted to suggest map pool?

T D M
D
M

can't wait. hope lvl^ streams the shit out of this

So sick map pool, and finally some TDM!

T E R M I N U S
E
R
M
I
N
U
S

WHERE IS CTF?

got an update and now it's called iCTF.

Really glad to see terminus and limbus in! Can't wait to get back on and play them! Looking for a team + any UKers out there im going to adroits so I'll be up for making a team for that as well if you fancy it!

Thumbs Up for tdm
Remove terminus and add whatever u want

Omg no tornado?????replace it with terminus

terminus with it*

Yeah
Thx :)

Dont remove terminus, it deserves a chance for organized clanwars. Everyone whining about it probably never played it or only in pickup wich is BS since its too tactical of a map for that, just like dm14.

I like it for pickups ... brings out the noob in everyone ... ppl usually to afraid to go anywhere and it's pretty hektik :)
dm14 everyone knows how to plus back, here noone does :D

I think its supposed to be played alot like dm14, but dm14 is also more than 10 years old, so no wonder ppl dont know the tactics for a brand new map :-) I personally look farward to see the tactical development of terminus as im all for tactical maps more than aimbased :-)

tactic? on that map u cant:
run
rocket jump
air rocket enemies
track with any weap coz there are 5000 corners to hide and 8000 things to stuck on.


imho tornado is so much more tactical,as you say nightops,ppl dont know how to play that map and they just make it FFA

Give the teams a few go's at it.

We have now played it 2x times and it's starting to look like we co-operate :)

You obviously played alot of organized cw's on it, so maybe show some demos? Ofc you can run, and the map has so many trickjumps to learn so you can move around fast, ppl just cba to learn things that take more than 2 tries. You cant compare terminus with tornado as its two totally different playstyles. I think tornado is much more like dm20 just with two powerups. If you should compare with another map it should be dm14 and there you dont go rocket jump or do air rockets that often either. Actually you dont rocket jump og do that many airrockets is ql tdm at all. This map brings something new as you say it has alot of corners and stuff, but that just makes it more complex of a playstyle wich i like. If you want rj, air rockets and weapontracks you could aswell play tdm on eye-foran-eye or what its called.

Btw, if you get stuck on things its not really the maps fault, but maybe your movement. And if the map has bugs, just tell the auther and im sure theyll improve it.

terminus is not for quakelive,thats all
as purri said before,map poll should be choose by players
i dont know how many players want play that map

cant compare terminus with dm14,dm14 is more open as quakelive needs,and for tornado,isnt like dm20 where u must rush everything everytime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-oo6SvkMyQ

Nightops has a very good point. What team are you currently representing and could you please give me demos or vods of this map that is not the 1x VOD that was made some weeks ago by lvlup where the general play and knowledge is bad from the players?

I will provide you with demos from this map as soon as we have played it a few times. I personally feel this map has great potential but it is very complex and different from the current QL maps. However, it will not be learned after 5-10 pickups. It will require a TEAM to play this map and not even then will you figure out what is the best tactics until you actually played it a few times against other teams who really tries back at you...

Currently we have won this map the only 2x times we played it and found simple tacs and it's been quite successful considering it's so complex and new. However all other teams simply vote no or whine that the map sucks with the logic that they played it 1x time in pickup or even worse, just by jumping on it or that it's not like dm20 :)

I will bash this map with you and everyone else once it has gotten a few good weeks/months if it deserves it. I currently see many ways of playing this map that intrigues me, but unfortunately I do agree with you that this map will not be popular as the community is to lazy to even try.

dm14 is far more openspaced, and it's hard to be worse than dm14 in that aspect...

I actually dont think it is, and why does every map have to be so open spaced that its all aim no brain?

because nobody wants to actually play real tdm anymore.. they just want CA with quad runs

A bit over the board but you have a point. :(

I dont get why a map like dm14 is even considered "brain" map. It feels extremely limited and closed. :S

I havent played terminus but I'm looking forward to give it a go! NEW MAPS FTW! :)

Hopefully we can get rid of all the old q3 maps.

Exactly, dm14 is closed and therefore more positioning and area controlling than just pure rush n' aim. Not that i dont like that kind of maps, but there should be a bit of both :-) i've allways been for new maps, but dm14 is still my favourite tdm map :-)

Yes, I dont mind maps that are slower and more about positioning but it feels like dm14 is just too "easy", just camp a few hallways until next powerup, rince and repeat :P

I hope terminus can create some diversity in gameplay in a more "complex" way cuz i agree that most maps are a bit too forgiving on positioning :)

I know that you both mean the same thing, but I have to disagree with how you express it. Most maps played require better positioning than dm14 because they are faster, if you don't position properly you'll lose your stack, or won't pick up the item and live to tell about it.
As for tactics, they are obvious on most maps with slight modifications during the game if they happen at all.
DM14 is also rushy, you cess red untill you get control, control is very much depends on better cess aiming.
As for including the new maps in this season, I'm very glad they included them. Gives some freshness and an opportunity for newer clans to become better.

Im not saying other maps dont require tactics, but imo dm14 is the most tactical map unless you play it like you just expressed :)
You can choose to cess the red, but that can easily be countered. We dont play dm14 like that at all.

I agree with free that it seems very "easy" at first, but theres really alot more to it, than just camp hallways and wait on powerups :-)

For those who wonder.. we will still try to do CTF and CA cups.
There is an application open for supervisors (mod not specified):
http://clanbase.ggl.com/crewapp.php?jid=925

Wooooooooo more drama incoming! \o/

Cant wait to stream!

cant wait to follow

Play and stream!!!! Come gun some fools down :O)

cant wait to occationally watch a game sometimez!!

\o/

clanbase died from the time when dozer became admin. guys, 4get bout this shit.
And yeah, again nice joke with no ctf. =)

Watching signups 102 turned portuguese and triplesex left skill united

Missing many clans on eurocup,cmon signup slackers!

surprised there're no national teams while adroits is less than in 2 months

not realz quake is dead?