likey likey

onex

prizes

$$$

The most we'd ever be able to provide out of our own pockets is a few premium subscriptions, or branded mugs/mice/mousepads.

While these are nice to have, prizes that actually generate interest, are enough to be split across 1st/2nd/3rd places, etc., require outside sponsorship. HoQ cannot get that sort of sponsorship without the involvement of quality streamers/casters who can promote brands in the ways sponsors expect. Getting that sort of coverage organized requires teams (particularly those in division 1) to show up on time (or at all), which they frequently do not.

Footballers who don't show up for games don't get paid.

gief camper crossings instead of boring courtyard

I thought about that myself and since a few people have suggested it I'm up for making the change. Get some [+]'s and I'll do it.

start by plussing me then, here, have a +, lets share :D

I can't [+] for some reason, but i agree with dem0n.

I'm torn on this because personally i think the revamped aggressive Courtyard (C10) can be as exciting as Jap castles when both are a 2/2 split but i understand not everybody feeling like this! But at the same time I'd like to see camper crossing given a go too....

Don't mind which makes it TBH but at least one of them please :)

-courtyard +siberia/p5/p14

new maps...okeh :)

good decision

[+]

Error: the user you are trying to judge does not have access.
Level: Trusted User

wat

Should be corrected now. Had a bug with AJAX'd [+]

woot

nice, maybe camper crossing for courtyard ?

need team btw

wtf ESR is broken :S can't [+] so from now on quake is officially dead

Tbh I didnt see shining forces wasnt even on

I would say:

-courtyard
-ironworks

+shiningforces
+campercrossings

-campercrossings

+siberia

-courtyard
-reflux

+shiningforces
+campercrossings

- reflux
+ shining forces

Die! :)

I agree totally.

fuck shiningforces :@

I've been babbling on about this for a while now including to Drayan last night regarding just how dead CTF is, in part as a result of the current 5 mappool snorefest. It just feels like nobody cares anymore because its the same old crap from Quake3 which only very oldschool players will give a shit about.

If CTF is to make a return to anything like competitive again, not just from a league POV but even from an actual practicing POV then it needs serious steps not too dissimilar to the ones taken in TDM just over a year ago and look at it now.... its active and has a fantastic mappool which people enjoy practicing and competing in leagues with.

The reason TDM is a good example imo is because it was completely dead and then came Purgatory, Dreadful Place and the ever increasing popularity of Hidden Fortress and huge decisions were made to drop maps such as dm6+dm7. Imo similar steps need to be taken in CTF right now.

Without any doubt some of the "old new" maps have to be sacraficed for things to move forward for a "modern" 5 map pool OR there is the lesser risky move which is this 7 mappool like Drayan has settled on which I think is also great.

The future of CTF imo is with the current lower div1/2/3 cores who will just keep getting better and still have that enthusiasm and enjoyment for the game, not the "whiney-ass" div1 scene which imo is generally hugely stuck in the past wanting every "old new" map to remain in the game forever.

What the scene needs right now imo is maps like infinity/reflux/camperscrossing to be brought in and given a fair chance. Along with the exciting/tense older maps such as japanese castles and even potentially courtyard in its new revamped aggressive geometry.

Lets get CTF back being played again! can't wait for this HOQ league tbh, and clanbase, and CSN etc :) but the mappool absolutely has to change from that horrific bo5 that we've had of late because its just grim beyond belief.

I do believe that the people running the leagues are on a similar wavelength regarding how important this is though now.

have a [+] sir, we need something fresh!

i would agree i think thats the right way q50! but still i dont like reflux and infinity at all and i dont think they should be played in leagues. but thats just another random opinion. and z00t ur a retarded cunt :P

bring back q3wcp16 (beach) \o/

is there any good old map that wasn't used massively in competitions and plays well in vq3? like toxicity (q3) and hidden fortress (dreamcast I think).

I think cp9 should be removed from every map pool. It represents your whole point, just like cp13.

I personally totally agree with you on Spider crossing (CP9) actually but this is just our opinion unfortunately :(

Personally this is the way i see the maps currently.

***Ironworks*** - Extremely vital that it stays in as its not just easily the most successful of the genuinely "new" quakelive maps, but has been taken up as a home map by some of the strongest teams quakelive has ever had.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***Courtyard*** - I could be wrong but has this actually ever really been given a fair shot in its new geometry? The reason i like it is that its aggressive and action packed and in some ways is the most tense action outside Japanese castles due to the 2/2 split nature of it and the fact things can turn upside down so rapidly.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***Spider crossing*** - The map intended to be literally the "saviour" of CTF when rumours finally got through that its release was imminent yet did it actually have the opposite effect?

It feels to me as TDM'y as C2 but nowhere near as technical and its clear that non-aimy teams absolutely hate it, while a lot of others (most notably the familiar oldschoolers) love it. I'm wondering if the actual legacy of this map is that horrible realisation that Quakelive CTF is becoming just Q3 CTF :/ but without cp15 etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***Troubled waters*** - Maybe the most technical map in CTF and of course one of the oldest which perhaps makes it very daunting for newer players unless they can do all the rocket jumps etc etc. I always think this is kind of similar but has so much more to offer than Spider crossings.

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***Infinity*** - I think its really important this map is in as without it theres just no point trying to progress things and move away from the old bo5 snorefest. Of course not everyone can like every map but this one just has to be in every map pool, whether 5 or 7.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***Japanese castles*** - The most tense / popular / aggressive / exciting to watch (even on stream) map by miles and should certainly be in.

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***Siberia*** - Tricky because a lot of people were happy to see it gone but it also took out about 5+ clans forever from leagues who had it as their home map. I can't see this map ever making it again without restructuring of the ra area and possibly other stuff too.

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***Shining dogshit*** - Biggest pile of shit ever known to man. Insanely bad!!! BIBLICALLY bad....My main gripes with this map are written below:

The map is so shit and basic, a 10 yr old could make the geometry in 2 hours.

The mid is so shit its unbelievable.

The bases are a stupid shape.

The rail position is an absolute joke.

The aimstyle on this map is so suited to low sens fags..

Everything about the map STINKS of a huge advantage to oldschool players.

You can literally be 2 mins into the map and realise you have 18 minutes to go and just want to kill yourself to end the misery.

I could continue tbh.....so i will! :)

Something about the high and low being such a "lol" vertical height that you can't really do anything unless you are on the same level as them which inevitably you never are because they're probably from quake3 CTF and know all the faggy little tricks of the map.

Infact, you never really ever get any fights on differing heights outside the flagroom occasionally ZzzZZzzZ.

Its EASILY the crappest map to watch on stream by so far. Its absolutely mindnumbingly bad.

The reliance on jumppads to get into the base is so pathetic its unbelievable. You'd think the same clown who made q3osp5 made this tbh...incidently, both maps have a near identical reliance on jumppads and a reasonably big oldschool following but not many others outside of this.

As an attacker your options are to either go around a corner with somebody aiming a railgun at your face, or take 1 of the 2 suicide jumppads and get LG'd. How is this good? seriously?

I was just thinking then for 30 seconds if just for jokes... there would be any way to make this map actually worse than it is, but i just couldn't think of anything at all.

I'm really not that keen on CP5 tbh :)

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***Reflux*** - Yea the battlesuit thing is crazy on paper :) but TBF they have nerf'ed it a bit (i'd still like to see x2 tbh and maybe this should be implemented in the rules if used?)... but seriously the way things are atm..why not give it a go unless theres a better plan somewhere?

If i was to do a mappool today I would be thinking along the lines of this:

5 mappool -

Infinity
Ironworks
Courtyard
Reflux/Campers crossing
Japanese Castles

7 mappool -

Infinity
Ironworks
Courtyard
Reflux
Japanese Castles
Spiders crossing
Troubled waters

Yes the 5 mappool especially is very debatable but it would be very fresh and interesting for many and would give people a lot of excuses to find pracs to sharpen up on the mappool. The ommission of CP9 would be deliberate for a single season, not likely permanently.

(OMFG EPIC LONG POST)

I "kinda" like CP5. Although I think the reasons I like it are outweighed by its flaws that you stated. Agree with your choices, and with the 5 map pool I think it'd be better to go pick-pick instead of the drop-drop. And drop-drop for the 7 map pool.

I think 7maps + dropdrop would be best since you get the variety without being forced to play your worst map.

:D

I was only giving my personal opinions with a bit of humour chucked in! Nothing factual :)

There just is something wrong with a ctf map when attackers spend 90% of the time controlling items instead of taking stabs at the flag.

Watch id's demo from the quakecon final - it's just sad . A attacker with ninja abilities who spends 15 min out of 20 going only for nmy RA. No matter how popular ironworks is in my humble opinion it has to go. I didn't play my favourite mode for a year after returning to quake when i found out that Ironworks and Siberia had killed it.

Im not sure if you know this, but positions on ironworks are : Def,homeRA,Attack high/mid,enemyRA
So attacking enemyRA is basically attacking..if he gets it and is able to get help from the attack high player, the flag will most likely be touched at least.
The thing is, on ironworks, the homeRA player is the most likely to cap (once he is able to stack up to 100/200 + medikit) capping becomes less difficult..
It's a little bit unusual ctf map, but i think its a good and fun map, especially compared to, shinning forces,troubled waters and even spiders crossings..

"Im not sure if you know this, but positions on ironworks are : Def,homeRA,Attack high/mid,enemyRA"

Thats my point, 4 players out of eight is fighting over 2 items, or at least making sure that one player can't stack up to 100/200 + medkit. That is half of the players whose main focus is itemcontrol. Aggressive spawns is a GOOD thing, this is one of the big problems with Siberia (no offensive spawns)

so you are suggesting we should attack 100/0? That doesn't happen in any map, unless respawns are fucked up (spawning very close to the enemy base)

I'm not suggesting anything like that. It is still quake. But that map is like r1ddler said "different". The way it is different is that because of the geometry of the map makes alternative ways to play it unsuccessful. In other words, you are forced to approach the game the way a tdm:er would in order to be successful.

Attacking with 100/0 is very common - this is what i mean by saying that Ironworks and SIberia killed ctf. Its lousy gameplay has spread like a cancer to all maps.

so players getting better is what you think killed ctf?

Not better, more simpleminded and less creative.

Agree'd & [+]'d

5 map pool:
Reflux
Infinity
Camper Crossings
Spider Crossings
Courtyard


Can easily see why there needs to be some more brand spanking new maps :) Even putting spider crossings in there I feel slightly nauseous

[-] i dropped my pro subscription 233 days ago etc

..?

this was a pre-ragegate in-joke, nvm

I'm looking for clan (div 2 or higher).
Nickname: _vod
Positions: all ( beside home ra on c7)
No i'm not VODA

"No i'm not VODA"


lol

Im happy next season is about to start but adding Reflux.....this map is just unplayable in 4v4 CTF, too small, too many items and on top of the battlesuit. Im always open to new maps and stuff and Infinity is the best example for a good new CTF map, but Reflux is a waste of pixels. I really hope you remove it and add campers crossings instead. For Courtyard, i've seen and played too many boring games on it, seeing finnegans instead would be more interesting imo

Reflux has been played in some NA tourneys (including QuakeCon), and got a positive reception there. The battlesuit has been nerfed since it was first released and can be nerfed further via Start-a-Match settings. Only the item layout bothers me, but that can be fixed if people play it and suggest solutions. FPS drops, also a big factor in the negative initial reaction, should have been resolved in a recent update.

Reflux at QuakeCon was awesome. Just sayin'

FINALLY

no wcp14, fuck that shit.

if anyone needs a player / wants to make a team, drop me a pm on here
im not very good(div4 i guess) but yeah if anyone of similiar skill wants to make a team im totally up for it

If any div1/2 team needs someone to rail ppl in mid I'm avi.

Minimum team size: 5 players?
I thougt its a 4v4 Season :O

It is. "Season 4 of HoQ CTF 4v4 is about to start, and this season we..."

Give camper crossing ye

yeah -reflux and +camper crossings or shining forces

"Something Jolt did years ago"

in fact every early Q3 CTF/TDM leagues was like this (jolt, savage, barrysworld, ...), only Clanbase was using map picking (afaik).

-reflux
+shiningforces

Drayan
r
a
y
a
n

I can understand people want Camper Crossings in but why the heck would anyone want to play Shining Forces?

well, as for me, mappool is not bad, but rly, guys, do u like to play all time the same old maps? imho the only one is still interesting to play - c2. and maps like p1 etc is no brainwork.
my choise is more new maps, couz its NEW and old is getting bored.
anyway, hf at league.

-courtyard
-ironworks

+finnegans
+shining forces

Why don't you just install Quake 3 again tbh? :p

indeed.

So becouse i like certain maps and dislike others i must reinstall quake 3 ok...

CTF is dead (2active clans,2semi-active,all other dead)

Something has to happen..something new and fresh to lure in players and interest from people who otherwise wouldn't play.

It's a TDM-like revolution :) (no more dm6,dm7,dm14,ospdm5, gives non-oldschool players a chance to compete)

I only sayd to remove ironworks and courtyard they are also old maps so i dont get the point really.

I did not say that those 2 new ones needs to be remove now did i?

I'm looking for a team (div2 or lower), pm me.

-reflux
+campercrossings (this map was never played in Q3!)

-ironworks
-troubledwaters

+finnegans
+campercrossings

If you want to give an oportunity to new maps in ql then campercrossings and finnegans should jump into the pool. Sooooo...

- ironworks
-Troubledwaters

+campercrossings
+finnegans

i'd say if you want to innovate with some new maps:

Ironworks
Japanese Castles
Spider Crossings
Troubled Waters
Reflux
Infinity
Camper Crossings

4 old with 3 new, in which you have different style maps in size, speed and powerup usage/numbers.

In this case try to split out the new maps into seperate weeks, for example round 4 has 2 new maps, i think having those seperated will lead to a better stability in teams (not) dropping due to maps.

Id love that map pool tbh
We would be forced to play 3 new maps competitively, which could be interesting and fun :>

- reflux
+ campercrossings

"Something new and fresh"
Do you really think a new mappol with shit maps will lure in new players / interrest? New good maps will.

I can understand Infinity is given a chance. But Camper crossing and Reflux?
Finegans or stonekeep is alot better maps then these 2.

Dont get me wrong, i also want to see new maps. But making a mappol out of shit maps is wrong move.

Ironworks
Japanese Castles
Spider Crossings
Siberia
Infinity
Stonekeep
Shining Forces

excuse me, who are you to say it's a shit map pool?

you went to play shootmania. obviously something totally shit can attract new players and interest, even if it's for a little bit. you should know.

4on4 + unlagged netcode made ctf sth very different from what it used to be. It rarely happens that the team with the overal weaker aim can take a single map win. Too late to change that now . gg rest in peace good old ctf.

Infinity, Reflux, Ironworks, Siberia, Stonekeep.

There we go, out with the old trash and in with the new (trash?!). Playing new maps twice in pickups doesn't count as "giving them a chance". Compared to knowing a map that's been played 59 million times even before ql, it's obvious a new map always feels odd in the beginning.

That pool doesn't sound bad (though I can't see shit in stonekeep with vertex)

Idea is reviving ctf, so the proportion can't be favoring old maps. I think the ratio should be 3 new maps 2 old ones, 4-1 or even 5-0.

In TDM tournaments removed dm6, dm7 and some dm14. Why can't they do the same in ctf?

because osp crowd.

I think it's too late to find a good solution with oldshool and newschool players having different opinions. If people continue playing the old maps (q3 maps and IW), a lot of newschoolers won't play, and viceversa.
I would like to see a mappool with:
+reflux
+infinity (IDK if its any good)
+stonekeep
+new map
+new map
+maybe japanese cos its funny

As some people said, CTF needs a revolution like TDM had. This would take too much time, at least some months till next update.
It's sad to see the best quake mode dying :_
/Lokario

Siberia in and i might play ! :-]

-troubled waters
-reflux

+shiningforces
+campercrossings

Cool !

+siberia
+troubledwaters
+ironworks
+finnegans
+infinity
-nobrain castles
-shitcrossing
-campershitting

and if it will be, i can play and join to some clan. =)

7 maps pool:

Infinity
Camper Crossings
Spider Crossings
Japanese Castles
Shining Forces
Troubled waters

With counting skills like that you could play top level frenchmania.

If you are searching CTF team to play HoQLeagues. idle in #hoqCTFsearch (irc)

I think some of you accidently added shining forces, a mod should correct this and just wipe out the wrong lines :|

If any lower div clans are looking for a player give me a shout on irc (fo_tbh)

I am looking for a team to join (Div 2-3?). I used to play a ton of CTF when Q3 first came out, but haven't played much until about a couple of weeks ago. I used to go under the name lethal. I am pretty versatile, can go O or stay at home.

Msg me if you need an extra man!

god pls finally remove reflux and courtyard and reflux for campers crossings and shining forces or finnegans. tried to play both maps more often last weeks and they are both just shit. courtyard is just so boring and easy to defend, that i was too freakin bored as defender and i guess attackers were just frustrated. and reflux is just unplayable imo. even without battlesuit its just to freakin small with too many objects in it. and for def its just too fuckin easy to defend with big stack and easy positions to overlook everything. i mean if they would take away this rotating bullshit in mid, exchange battlesuit for regen, exchange the acid with water this map maybe would be playable, but like it is now......hell no!

It's a game! Losing is a part of it. Oldschooler dont play new maps because they are just afraid of losing it (and we also get older where it becomes harder to learn new stuff :P ). New player like new maps because they see a chance of meeting in the same level (experience wise).

Worst thing in QL is the limited choice of maps. In Q3 we had 40-50 CTF only counting the big mappacks like threewave and chicken maps, and standards. Most of them were crap but some actually were nice. They were played. Nice side effect was small maps for 2v2 or 3v3 like wcp18, wcp17, wcp10, w4, etc. That make small privatly organised cups 2v2 like prost did at the end impossible. Offensive spawning is dicussed a lot. good thing, it takes a way the focus from dominating items and aim to undertsanding situations and make decisions in split seconds. I still would like to see maps like wcp22 and wcp15 comming back. But also would liketo soo a whole bunch of new maps QL like the ctctf3 and ctctf5 in Q3 which got established at the end of q3!

QL always had only a limited choice of maps. which were crap from the beginning. soo crap that ppl actuall started playing ironworks and siberia. Then adding one crap map afterthe other was the next mistake. I guess there are tons of people who would like to design a map and just play it. But own maps in QL doesnt go together.

To conclude! people should just get over their egos and start playing new maps, even if they seem crap and even if there is a fair chance that thei will lose due to shit team in pickups or a more experienced team in cups.Quake is not only about winning, Its all the funny insane unique situations that make the game fun. Then QL should be more open to a whole bunch of new maps where we can chose from and not give only one which is semiplayable until fixed like reflux.

Just play it and have fun.
/n3mo

well i am not that ignorant that i dont give new maps a fair chance. but after playing it around 20 times and still not feeling any fun playing it, no matter if losing or winning, i label it crap. infinity for example is new, and i really like it, but for me it seems only cause reflux was played at quakecon it was added to mappool. I would like to hear some good arguments for that map because imo there are only some against it.

cant you just do a voting for the mappool?

its anyway useless couz of no more real ctfers, only naabs from q3 stayed. so anyway will be some shit maps which played 10+years.

if u all like to play the same old maps, so give me e2m5, ctf2m3, ctf5 etc.

real ctfers blablabla, only ppl that play this and that are real blablabla jesus im tired of ppl with more experience talking like they are the only real ctf players. i dont gibe a fuck if ppl play for years, month or days, i wanna play some ctf and have fun, thats it.

i dont mind bout new players. more players - more fun. and i just want to play new maps couz of old get retarted. till there will be old maps, i will not turn back and just play some pub to waste the time.

why play new maps when they are just retarded? Only cause they are new? lul


I agree that playing "old" mapsCAN be boring, but tbh cp9 e.g. is still competetive and intense. Same for cp1.
So what? Isnt that nice?

"oh no, i hate the map ( i am 1 of 10) and i want new maps.. i dont care if they got a bad design. I MEAN, THEY ARE NEW! that must be enough!)

when u playing in quake 16 years alrdy, all old getting retarted couz of it all same all days for years. so, how do u think, its interesting to play?

I played quake3 aswell, not ctf (only cpmctf) and this is a different story, but i played capturestrike a lot on all these maps. I love this game and im not getting bored..thats the reason why i am still playing it :)


I understand your point but reflux e.g. is just a really bad map?
So why should we play this in a league?
- This new map wont generate more clans
- Nearly every clan is happy when the 20 minutes are over on this.

So i still dont get it.



anyway: i blame ID for it :mad:

My thoughts so far with some mini discussions with ani about infinity are that its too cramped, and there's just 1 horrible choke point before u get into the base. On ironworks and c2 there are places where you can make the enemy chase because he can't see where you are (water/megahealth on troubled waters, and RA/medkit on ironworks). You can't go unseen through any entrance on infinity. If you manage to stack up with quad, everyone just spawns all around on you, but its the only way to cap unless you get massive luck. I'm sure there'll be a lot of 2-1's and 1-0's on that map. I think stonekeep is a better map than infinity and its also relatively new.

Reflux isn't actually bad since there's a side entrance, a high and a low, and you can get in and out of the base hidden like other q3 maps. I haven't played it a lot though so can't say for sure and my opinion is from an attacker's POV as well.

Its kinda sad that infinity looked like such a good map, if cityy just places a wall in front of the water, so you can't see the rail/water from the top of outside of base, I think it could be a great map and would remove that choke point which makes it so hard for attacking. [edit: he could also move the portal to the little box that you get to from swimming, before it gets seen by the ppl outside base] I think its just that it got very little if any playtime during testing before it was released.

np, you'll emoquit before the league even starts :D

I am looking for a team to join.