I wish I could get a day off for this events.
Keep up the good work.

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Ass kicking time yay!

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Great! Let's hope I'll be more lucky with the stream this time.

Have fun everyone.

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:-P

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nice games yesterday, gl today!:) YAY (fuck, he didnt signup yet :<)

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pm roychez, find him on IRC (#faceit)

NEED RUSSIAN STREAMERS PLEASE

main stream is fucking unwatchable, but thank fuck for russians, harosh!!!!!!!!!1

What I saw last night was pretty impressive. They have improved since the first cup. If they keep that standard, their own stream will be more than sufficient.

Only weakness seems to be the fact that they insist to only cast full matches. From what i know they now have a guy to find matches and servers for next round, while the casters are occupied commentating the current round.

I don't really see why you want russian streams that you don't understand a word of, rather than supporting this project to improve.

he understands harosh.

harosh!

FACEIT stream is laggy as fuck at the best of times, I find myself always having to switch to 480p like some kind of peasant.

Last night i watched the entire match between evil and spart1e on HD (dunno if thats 720 or 1080p). There was a problem for 20 seconds 1 minut into the first map, but from then on i didnt notice any lag for a good 30 minutes.

Good for you.

But like 90% ppl commenting saturday match -including me- reported huge lags, which made the whole thing inwatchable.

Those lags don't even need to be server side.

I'm living in a rural area and having dl bandwidth just 3Mbit. And the HD stream is maxing that out. So here I'm having lags because my downstream bandwidth just doesn't suffice. That's why I'm using the crappy looking 480p resolution.

But then, you might also experience lags just because your provider is buffering. Because your provider somewhat rightly assumes that anything >3Mbit is bulk download and not a live feed. To which other QOS (quality of service) rules apply.

Saying: such a fat stream is too much, even if the server can handle it. Streamers should try cutting down on the bandwidth for any given resolution, something they always should do when streaming worldwide and not knowing how resources are looking like on the receiving end.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2270542419.png

Sure. As said, could be your provider. And he'd be right to do so. Nobody can realistically expect a >3Mbit connection to be treated as low latency unless specifically paying for that.

They really should just optimize the visual input for compression by switching off the "eye candy". Some reasonable picmip. Simple items. Just everything as simple as possible, visually, without taking away from the action.

I'm afraid their stream still sucks, and they're obviously total noobs.

Just look at the 480p stream. It's running at about 1.2Mbit, and that should be *ample* to produce decent visuals without notable encoding artifacts. Not the case here though, the image is falling apart into blocks almost all the time.

Why? Possibly several reasons, but one sure is that they're cramming too much detail in, in their cluelessness. Brief reminder: when you're doing video at a given bandwidth you've got to consider wisely what to spend that bandwidth on. Because if you're doing too much the encoder will not say "ooh that's too much and I'm going to cancel precisely that bit out again". No, the encoder will produce a "starved" stream, where the whole image will be affected by artifacts and typically look like shit.

Now streamers please educate yourself about video encoding, specifically intra- and inter-frame compression. And realize that you want, for example, surfaces to be as plain and uniform as possible. And that you certainly don't want to have rocket trail smoke eating lots of precious streaming bits.

Sorry, this stream is crap. Holyshit/Levelup had all this figured out already, and it's a pain to see people doing that learning process all over again.

You are posting the same comment a lot of time and each time you basically say that they should just put picmip to 16 and remove all graphic effects. But I remember clearly that when some big lans were streaming QL with a very picmip heavy config, most players from other games were asking why the game was so ugly and so simple etc.
So clearly having a nice looking config is important to a lot of viewers, of course lvlup/holyshit is basically by Quakers and for Quakers only so they can afford to just remove every effect. On the other hand, faceit is probably trying to reach a much larger audience, hence why they think it's so important to have a studio with casters for instance, and if you want a lot of people watching you actually need to make the game decent looking.

who gives a fuck? you think those guys will drop everything and pick up quakelive because of fancy fucking graphics? FUCK NO

LET THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO FUCKING WATCH QUAKE, SEE THE GAME.

THE FUCKING STREAM SUCKS, END OF STORY.

GET 1 FOR ALL THE GRAPHIC WHORES WHO WILL GO ' HOW QUAINT, THIS IS SOOOO RETRO TEEHEE, LET ME WATCH FOR 30 MINUTES WHILE MY XBOX350 UPDATES MY SUPER COOL HIDE BEHIND A WALL AND PEEK-A-BOO SHOOTER GAME.

AND GET 1 STREAM FOR THE DIE HARD FUCKING QUAKERS THAT STILL PLAY AND WATCH QUAKE RELIGIOUSLY LIKE IT'S AN EVERYDAY FUCKING OCCURRENCE LIKE WAKING UP AND TAKING A SHIT OR BRUSHING YOUR FUCKING TEETH.

QUAKE IS IN MY VERY FUCKING SOUL, LET ME AT LEAST SEE IT.

FUCKING STREAM IT PROPERLY.

If I'm repeating myself it's because nothing is changing. So no need to get touchy there.

And you're talking about nice looking streams. What is that, actually? I can tell you what pros in media production think about that question.

A nice looking stream is first and foremost one where encoding artifacts are kept at a minimum. A pretty flower can have as much lovely detail as you want on the video input side, when the encoding output is blurry and blocky people will be annoyed. Again, just look at the 480p stream here.

Then given the premise that you want to minimize encoding artifacts to a possibly non-noticeable level - and believe me, any serious streamer would want to achieve that - all the rest is a tradeoff between complexity of visual input, encoding computing power and streaming bandwidth. Where you want to find a healthy balance.

Now, when the 480p stream is looking like shit due to artifacts, that's not a healthy balance. And when you're burning over 3Mbit for your HD stream and ppl start complaining about lags, that's also not a healthy balance.

Got the picture? "Nice looking" is not equivalent to "yes lets have all the textures in each and every detail", because you either won't enjoy them anyway in all the blockiness or gonna need a huge, fat pipe for that. "Nice looking" rather means sufficient visual detail for enjoyment of action + fluidity at minimal bandwidth + as little encoding artifacts as possible. Specifically when you want to reach as many people as possible.

Go check Quake 4 streams from years back when everyone had 1 Mbps links (and Russia had 256 Kbps). Now THAT was bad quality.

own3d.tv has HORRIBLE PLAYER, but if you watch with MPlayer, it's fucking pro! Unlike twitch.tv which has always had bad routing to half of Europe and you have to watch 360p on your 100 Mbps connection (if you're lucky, you get working 720p when 720p+ doesn't work).

http://www.own3d.tv/live/51234

Check-ins 30 minutes left: http://faceit.com/tournaments/845850de-5d79-4...0772e8f9bf

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is that 060718 killmas?

y

Go czm and spart1e :)!

just to be objective: today stream rocks.
no delays, no freezing, no anything.












...FOR ME.

zoot needs to sleep moar :p

Thanks to Faceit, Zoot, ddk and the players for this \o

own3d stream sucks very much! 720 is not working at all. 480 lagging as hell. dramatically.

At least the 480p should be watchable, but no. Can't believe I have to use 360p when just yesterday I was watching 1080p streams in twitch without the slightest problem.

Im watching 480p no problem. If you try hd and then fallback to 480 it stays lagged, reloading the page fixes it, dont know if its your problem.

that was it, though can't watch best quality.

[+]

At least it has great framerate, hate 30fps streams cant see shit.

agent: go kaluga will kill.

ddk is the most pretty boy and silent psycho looking guy in the same time i ever seen lol

no homo

Almost like a british Dexter...

Well, hello there :)
I'm sorry to dissapoint you but T. Bundy had the best pretty boy / silent psycho appearance in ALL time

this guy is nothing compared to the suggestive looks ddk giving to the camera

"i know you are watching"

haha you should reveal your name (obv no homo) because that's good insight/observ...ddk probably narrates ql duels in the same tone/pace that he would while describing his torture techniques to a bound victim :? (not sure why I'm delving in dark places tonight)

Any way to watch this without the own3d player? Like straight in VLC

https://github.com/chrippa/livestreamer

ummm is it me or no site chat?

it's IRC chat

ah found it was a little hidden

standard

can't move

spartie: wp.
czm: standart.

czm: standard
russian: standart )))))))))))))

got me here)

harosh ))))))))))))))))))

standarD

what a game on lost world, sad face due to the result

its sad that this top-notch production does not have at least 2-3k viewers weekly. and even below 1000? thats just not enough imho.

nobody knows its even happening on the first place. the overall ql population must be like 20x-30x times bigger than esr-gang.
if ID would be a reasonable company, there should have been banners and ads about Faceit everywhere in QuakeLive - on maps, on quakelive.com, when the server is loading, etc, etc.
Because at the end, Faceit is the only who promotes Quakelive on constant basis, week by week.

I've said this exactly 9,995 times. There should be embed streams, chat and all that because that's one of the major advantages of having the game on a website.

Are there any russian or other streams right now? Combined it simply can't be less than 1k even if it is an online all sundays cup.
edit: empire is re-streaming and has 226 viewers, faceit 733. Quake is dying :(

given the quality of the stream and the matches (speaking of final, quarters in general) one should hope for a larger amount of viewers indeed. would be nice to know if the viewer count is actually increasing.

yeah, its a nice idea but that can be a problem because id does not want to be responsible for the streaming content. i think that is the main problem. would be nice to hear from sync if that is even possible.

they did embed the DH stream (from 2010 or 2011) and their own qcon stream on the main site...
I personally do not see why they should have to advertise it though. Not as long as Faceit is not paying ID (as the current adverts do bring in some $ for ID).

true that. well, i assume they could arrange a deal.

Maybe theyre are waiting for faceit to shutdown ql streams to contact them, like what happened with zotacs.

sure it wouldnt be a gesture of good will, but a deal.
but its so obvious who'd be a beneficiar, when its about promoting the only promotion for their own game, pardon my shakespeare's syntax.

I don't see how advertising on the QL site would bring in more QL players... seeing how the only people on it are those who already go there.
I do see value in ID sponsoring their own tournaments... but they kinda do that with Qcon already. Not sure how much they would want to promote it more.

It's to keep people playing, who are the ones that end up buying subs.
edit: Also it can indirectly lead to foreigners watching the game because more viewers = stream in front page.

That's different from directly advertising the game, but they have missed so much free opportunities it's sad (free browser based wolf3d was the latest one).

Quakecon is 100% organized by volunteers that have no clue about quake (the reason it sucks) and prizes are put by ventrilo and intel.
We don't care about the lanparty side of it, which obviously id software sponsors, because no one plays quake there rofl.

fair points. I didn't really consider those :D

Did you also think about the issue raised below (that you can't control what the casters say on the stream and therefor you might be hessitant to throw it up on your page)?

Next to that it would also be fair that IF the stream would make money because of it being on the frontpage of QL... that they would actually pay ID for it ;)
So perhaps a deal like that could be made (where ID gets part of the revenue from the stream income etc.) ;)

a deal about streamers and players behavoir it's the easier answer that comes to my mind as long as it isn't something unreasonable. The show is about the games and has little self-made content (Diddy K's and Zoot's chats on this or that), it shouldn't be that hard to come to terms.

Or, ID could add the classic warning message "you are leavin ql.com we are not blablabla" as well.

In my POV, ID had income already thanks of organizzations like faceit, the guys that play the cup most likely pay prem or pro and would lose the desire of playing the game if there wasn't an actual platform to play competitive.. And also the admins and the guys who spawn servers for the players. Without faceit cup i would consider Quake pretty dead, without any chance for any upandcoming player to test himself or to fall in love with the competitive side of the game.

I don't see why having instant revenue out of a deal should be the best move anyway, even in the most selfish way. There is this group of ppl promoting the game, if id helps them grow they'll always have the chance to say "ok, you are big enough now, we helped that, we want a little bit of the cake now if you want this relationship to go on" because they'll ALWAYS have leverage.

one of those famous warning messages would be nice :D
That way ID would perhaps consider doing it...

I know that's their reason to not show streams on the front page, but LoL does it and directly promotes streams of the most retarded people on the internet (individual players streams that dedicate to LoL).

So far it's been only quakecons and 1 or 2 DHs. LoL has advertised on the game's client (literally can't miss reading it twice every time you log in or a game ends, whereas I haven't read QL news in months) and pseudo embed (image, click to open the stream in your browser) probably more than 200 and it isn't browser based rofl.

I dunno what their reason is not to have streams on there... I also dunno what faceit's reasons are to only allow 2 streams max.

There are so many things which don't really make sense in the world that it's sad :(

imho it promotes the game overall evenif they don't get money directly out of it.
Knowing there are weekly cups and you can watch them weekly imho it's appealing and helps understanding that there's a very high skilled community behind the game. I think it isn't that hard to never even know that a weekly cup exist if you never bother to look for a website like ESR.

Well there are a lot of negative sides to showing someone else his stream on your site as well.
Because you can't really control what the casters say.
Ofcourse there are upsides as well

btw is the twitter account 'quakelive' being updated by id-software? Because they do post quite a few streams on there it seems.

I spamed all my friendlist just like yesterday, i think most of them had no idea such thing existed but i managed to get at least 4 stop playing to come and watch \o/

Btw which matches were the best to watch ?

evil - slimk (imho, da best)
spartie - czm
final was a little bit dull

http://www.youtube.com/faceit best faceit channel ever!

slimk going mental.

lol slimk ... amazing dmg output... havent seen that in awhile.

slimk must've been injected something.
like a spoon of young cooller's bllood from the Secret Kremlins Reserve.

just to make this one clear, i have a 8mbit/sec connection (constant dl at 5mb/sec) and the stream never ever lagged for a single second since the start of the cup, i tried both 360p 480p and hd.
not sure if this helps some to find whats the problem, but not everyones stream is fucked apparently

I have 25 mbit and even 480p lags from time to time.

spartie wins hek and furious, rest goes to evil (although im hoping spartie is winning)

ninja-edit detected.

didnt know what maps were picked :D but yeah, spartie is doing ittt.

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tox as the last map is kinda a downer :/

ggs, grats to evil, sick toxicity...

EVIL EVIL EVIL

Thanks all for tuning in. We'll do our best and talk to own3D on how to fix things regarding the stream. As far as I know and read, more and more people are getting proper access to it, so we'll work hard to continue that upward line. Again thanks for all feedback, it's very useful to us!

tl;dr: twitch, steal empire/lvl^ cfg and stream settings.

since roychez deleted the reply saying it is own3d's fault I'll reply anyway lol:

I don't get lags with the own3d.tv empire (russian) stream. HD quality, looks awesome (their cfg>yours), harosh, though less fps but a lot more stable.
I tried the empire stream with 360p for the lulz and it is like 10x more watchable than faceit's 480p.

But it's true it'd be better on twitch

Unfortunately it is a little more complicated than that, but I'm not educated enough in streaming and how it all works to explain it properly (hence why I deleted my reply).

It is to do with scaling, and that comes from own3D's side. I have sent a PM to weltschmerz, hopefully he can help is a bit as well, as he seems to know what he's talking about on a technical level.

Like I said, we'll keep trying to make it accessible for everyone, and each time we have less people who have issues.

Another problem with own3d is their player. It's fps hog (even when video is paused) and I can't watch fullscreen because it starts skipping frames. This is why me and few more ppl use external player robing your ad money. I've never had such problems with twitch.tv.

Yeah, their bigger problem is their flash player. The stream quality is actually decent (you can see that downloading the VODs and playing them in a decent player).

nice Evil. ggz to all.

mp4 stream link anyone?

Timelimit 15? Why?

Personally, I do not like watching game when plaer losing 10-1. And he decides join spectors. You know what I mean.

I know, forfeit prone sunday.

Gratz to participants and BIGGG UPS to Zoot&ddk for taking the time and dedication to cast.

VODs and download links:

Part #1 (0:31'26") - http://www.own3d.tv/FACEITtv/video/860934
Download: http://owned.vo.llnwd.net/v1/videos/SD/860000...Q.mp4?ms=0

Part #2 (1:59'59") - http://www.own3d.tv/FACEITtv/video/861118
Download: http://owned.vo.llnwd.net/v1/videos/SD/861000...Q.mp4?ms=0

Part #3 (1:59'59") - http://www.own3d.tv/FACEITtv/video/861327
Download: http://owned.vo.llnwd.net/v1/videos/SD/861000...Q.mp4?ms=0

Part #4 (0:48'26") - http://www.own3d.tv/FACEITtv/video/861440
Download: http://owned.vo.llnwd.net/v1/videos/SD/861000...Q.mp4?ms=0