I expected this thread to be about chumbo.

Constantly bullied on IRC. Twitter, now it's seeped onto here.

:(

:(

MYGIRLWANTSTOPARTYALLTHETIMEPARTYALLTHETIME

RFUCK
;d

RFUCK
RFUCK
RFUCK
RFUCK

MY GURL WANTS TO PARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY all the time.

So basically, you got bullied, so should everyone else.

It's hard to visualize, but it actually is possible to give people verbal discipline and educate them in the ways of TDM without sounding like a cock, it just takes a few 10 minute conversations instead of a rapid 10 second ragewhine.

Also:

RFUCK
RFUCK
RFUCK
RFUCK

MY GURL WANTS TO PARTAAAAAAAAAAAY ALLTHETIMEEEE

Clear misunderstanding of my post. Either you're motivated enough to get good at Quake, or you can go play CA tier 3. The bashing is here to make the difference.

Yes, yes, I completely understand you Sharpe: It's just a lot more simple, easier, more beneficial to your ego, and last but not least, faster, to "bash" someone instead of the oh-so-unrewarding and drawn out process of taking the extra time and effort to add the guy on your friends list or IRC and go into details, giving the guy a friendly but firm explanation of what he's doing wrong, where he should begin to improve, why the health of the scene depends on him making the effort to improve his skills in much the same way you have made the effort to explain it to him, and finally give him a few links to TDM-related resources that other, more appreciative and helpful members of this community have gone to the effort of creating, and remind him that if he has any questions that all he has to do is ask. FUCK NO.

Damn why didn't I see it from your perspective before? All the time I would have saved by just telling my clan mates and other TDM initiates to either smarten the fuck up or fuck off to CA! A matter of seconds, and it just rolls off the tongue to boot :D And I would have felt so much better with myself as well as feeling that little bit more superior afterwards too!

<retard mode off>

A healthy, respectful and helpful community gives rise to challenging cups and populated tiers which one can gradually ascend, and it is this gradual improvement and "levelling-up" that motivates people to play better (it's been the core component of games since PONG CHESS HIDE AND SEEK), and QL lacks populated tiers precisely because of this elitist attitude you are trying to defend, amongst other things.

Although why you actually went to the lenghts of creating a thread to debate the matter, and then tell everyone who presents an alternative point of view that they are either wrong or don't understand you, is beyond me.

Maybe you just told some pickup noob to fuck off to CA in an excessively harsh manner in front of people you are normally cool in front of and then you wanted to justify your actions?

There isn't much more to be said on the matter. In all aspects of human life, right down to the apparently insignifcant world of online gaming, education is the key, not "bashing".

I usually don't bash people. I just make a joke and hopefully guide them if I'm in the mood, or make a harsh one if i have a sad.

I have in fact said you didn't understand me because all you have for argumentation is your goody-doer attitude and a unfunny parody of my posts. I am open to dialogue and understand your point, all I'm arguing in favor of is that a bit of trash talking never killed someone.

And for me it's part of what I love in gaming, and that dates back to the first time i went to a Lan-cafe-thing 15 years ago. You don't progress if there's no stake, and, for me, a harsh community that drives you upwards is a stake. Having some dude give you useless guides (Quake is learned only through playing and watching demos I'm afraid) doesn't provide any incentive in my books.

I usually don't bash people. I just make a joke and hopefully guide them if I'm in the mood

pls =)))

Maybe I wasn't in the mood with you =)))

I won't even really address the fact that you are drawing generalities based on your own personal experiences and instead focus on the actual topic.

Quake is known to be an "hardcore game", it's hard to learn, even harder to master, it's always been like that but nowadays it's even more significant because of the constant dumbing down of new titles. That's the main reason why Quake is a dying game, not a lot of people are willing to put the time and effort to get good at the game which is the prerequisite for having fun playing Quake.

So here is the real question, do you want to potentially scare off the few real new players by being unnecessarily harsh to them ?
Because being harsh to new players is indeed hurting the game, you can afford to be an awful community when your game has 70 millions registered accounts, but when your game is dying a bit more each day, every potential new player should almost be cherished like the reincarnation of the Christ or some shit.
But of course the only important thing is to be true to yourself, if you are fine with Quake dying and just playing with the same dozen of people, then go for it and treat every new player like the piece of shit that you were yourself when you first started.

On an semi unrelated note, if you were abused when you were a kid, don't procreate.

Also I always hated that outro by the needledrop, I just needed to say it.

The problem is I've never seen someone come to pickup and become good over time. Always newcomers out of nowhere rape, or it's just the same old 20 rookies fucking up games and never improving.

Fantano

oh and objectivity is a fucked-up myth, everything you mentioned is your experience and can be debated. Better embrace your own subjectivity.

What about you sir, didn't you improve over time?

But that's the thing really, how do you expect them to improve when the only feedback they receive is "uninstall the game" "go play lol" "always the same noob in my team" etc ? For instance you said "2k dmg on dm20", maybe it could have been useful to just have a short conversation with the dude stating that his damage output was way too low and that he should work on that if he wants to improve.

And objectivity isn't really fucked up, I think when most people have the same subjective thought about a topic it becomes quite objective, in our case I think most new players would rather be helped and treated with respect than be constantly flamed and reminded of how bad they are.

the best motivational technique is based on the individual person and not on the game/community imo

some people get depressed about sucking and need cheering up :C

Is this about the other day when tony cried his eyes out at me??? I was on positive net at the time too.

Not that I give a fuck anyway

Friendly ribbing? No. The players are just egotistical elitist diehard nerds, clearly taking the game too seriously. There is never a reason to rage whine and deride newer players putting forth the effort to improve. This is probably the only shortcoming of the community that contributes to Quake Live being a failure and it's sad when players have your delusional way of thinking.

Signed,
Hope of the Universe
Answer to All Living Things That Cry Out for Peace
Protector of the Innocent
Light in the Darkness
Truth
Ally to Good, Nightmare to You

Compare:
"I told you to stay in room X!"
"why do you sit there with rail? Go Y!"
"don't hide when I'm dying, shoot him FFS!"
"nobody at quad, where the fuck were you?!"
(in the heat of the battle some shouting is normal)

with:
"fuck you retarded moron imbecile"
(whatever you think, this is not helping anyone)

If the guy doesn't accept advice, feel free to abuse the hell out of him, but my experience is that the noobs crave guidance. You tell them what to do and they listen, unlike some wannabes!

When I see people who clearly have nothing to do on pickups, I try to point them to TDM publics and people who play those. I wish more players were aware that this is a possibility :) You don't need to insult people by telling them to play CA!

I'm still horribly bad myself, but fortunately people hesitate from insulting the admin ;)

And another thing!

If you think you will see the same wave of noobs coming onto public servers as you've seen ~2009, you may be wrong.

Myself I fell in love with TDM on publics, with the basics I've hard on an ESL stream (with 2GD and Joe!)

I'm not the most talented, I bet it took me a year to get to the skill you had after 1 week. But pub TDM was alive back then, and I managed to advance from tier 2 to tier 4 (out of 5 back then) in few weeks, I knew it's about getting powerups and stuff, I had fun.

However, back then the top gametype was FFA, top maps were dm6 and dm17 and TDM had two variants.

Checking back today, you'll see that CA is the main gametype (people have no idea weapons can just lay on the map and be picked up), TDM is considered hard (really!) and publics are even more empty than 2-3 years ago. (OK, less empty this month with 3 free maps, but last 2 months made a big negative impact.)

This is not the best environment to get into tdming.

So Dis&vor do a fantastic job of streaming TDM virtually each evening, but then people have problems playing it themselves.

I really think you should think about differences in the noob stream then and now. If we want to have anyone to own in the future, we should have a plan how to keep the noobs around and let them evolve. Do you think we can survive without them? If so - how?

I don't think Quake's skill level has anything to do with bullying. There are jerks in every game.

I personally don't care when people complain about me ruining pickups. I just don't take these kind of insults personally. I had both good and bad games on pickup.

No offense, but that attitude is exactly why i always steered well clear of Quake pickups (being horrible at Quake has nothing to do with it xaxaxax)) :@f ff ).

Yeah, i get it, nobody wants to lose because one or more players on their team are clearly worse than them, but giving them shit for it (unless they're intentionally fucking things up or stubbornly refuse to listen to actual advice) is just bleh, even on pickups where you'd expect to play with and against people of actual skill.

Actually, fuck that, especially there, because if a newbie today is smart enough to figure out how to install and configure a mirc client, join a pickup chan and try to engage in and boost the activity there (a good thing for everyone involved, i'd imagine), and all he's getting back from it is heavy duty rape with insults sprinkled on top... well, that's just messed up. Then again, i always thought that pickups are all about elitism and circlejerks, so maybe it's all good.

You don't need a client, you don't need to know what a "pickup channel" is :)

All you need is to head straight to http://tdmpickup.eu/ where we have webchat embedded! :)

And I can promise you less than 1 in 5 mercylimits, since our lovely bot balances teams quite well, even with noobs.

What I can't promise however is no verbal abuse from the mid-skillers like sharpe ;) But you're from ESR, you can cope with that ;)

For fuck's sake who gave that Lam guy the link to esr >:(

Bullying is not ookey. Mmmk? Constructive criticism is good, name calling or general elitism is bad.

Now, as far as someone weighting a team down, as an hpb, in my experience it's just as much of a problem as having a really good player winning the game for other other teams. As in, it's not really a problem and you can always balance the team so that it is not about the 1/8th worst player, but about how well the teams actually play.

heres the pacifist solution: convince them to actively promote tdmpickup among their friends (who likely noobs too) and whenever its possible add in pairs.
the channel gains more traffic, they can participate while better players still can play a balanced game with them.