Kinda rhetorical question.. Higher fps would give you smoother feel, while for example 500hz mouse with high malfunction speed and benefits like teflon feet would surely outperform smth like 125hz mouse without that (but shape and how it suit your hand also counts thats why you could do better with some office mice you are used too then some uberpro gaming one). Also right chosen settings would have positive impact on ur gaming as well but its kinda personal how much that factors migh improve you in general.

It can make you aim better, which would improve your game.

But what if it makes you rely on your aim more, making you inconsistent and when tournament comes you play worse and you are bad again.



























;>

Well if the tournament isn't using 120hz monitors.

Just buy Fatality's Gamer Food and you'll crush anyone that you play against.

125 fps 500hz mouse 120 hz monitor increase your skill by up to 100-150%, and your aim by up to 15 percent accuracy

of course, here's in order of relevance:

1) stable fps (125 for quake)
2) mouse with high polling rate and without negative acceleration
3) 120hz monitor
4) good connection without packetloss, lag spikes, etc.

The beauty of Quake is that it's needs are basic

5) a chair

http://i.imgur.com/KS4Kh.jpg

cheir of relaks)))))))))

It still has needs. For Starcraft for example you dont need a good monitor, good internet, big pad just a mouse that doesnt skip. I never played those moba games but I bet requirements are even lower.

Why is it usually suggested to put exactly 125fps? Isnt 120fps for 120hz to match each other a good setup? Or you need smth like a bit extra fps above hz rate for more stable feel/picture?

If I get anything lower than 125, even for a second, my game feels like playing on a 1995 computer.

I find it hard to believe so many people have less than 125 fps these days. The QL engine doesn't need much to run at very high fps. In fact 125 is very low compared to what most pcs can process. For example I have a fairly old nvidia card and when I timedemo a random campgrounds demo I reach 932 fps. If you have fps drops ingame with a gfx card manufactured in the last 5 years then there must be other settings in your pc that are creating bottlenecks in your ram or cpu usage. Clean up your running processes and resident programs to leave only those that you need and things should improve. There are many online guides to show you how to do this if you are not sure.

Of course timedemo is simply processing game data from a demo file as fast as it can. The game doesn't have to process game data received from a server, or input data from your mouse and keyboard etc (if the latter are running at 1000hz polling rate then this can add strain on a poor system). But the results of timedemo should indicate whether or not your gfx card is or is not the problem regarding fps drops - and these days that is very unlikely with a low resource requirement game like QL.

Intel graphics.

hmm.... :( Didn't think of that, but any gamer using on board gfx only have themselves to blame I suppose, considering you can get bog standard gfx cards quite cheaply these days...

laptops

Again only themselves to blame :)

I find it hard to believe so many people have less than 125 fps these days.

Do I blame anyone? On the other hand q3 runs perfectly smooth here with more fps and on my settings there is no visual difference.

Nah, i think it's just old habits. I remember I had a bind that used to change my com_maxfps between 120, 124 and 125 depending on what type of server I was playing on (because your movement changed!), there shouldn't be any difference between 120 and 125. (I think 120 shows 125 anyway).

movement only depended on fps in Q3, not in QL afaik

NO SHIT. I WAS TALKING ABOUT QUAKE 3 YOU MORAN.

so that's what the 'Q' stands for

In q3 engine physics changes so drastically with fps drops that you don't even need cg_drawfps and 125 is optimal. In ql it's not the case. I only notice when it drops below 100.

You can't put QL @ 120fps, if you want the explainattion ask Lorfa ;)

I want the explanation :)

bump

1000 must divide com_maxfps evenly, or very close to it.

So for example:

1000/125 = 8 (good)
1000/124 = 8.06 (bad)
1000/123 = 8.13 (bad)
1000/122 = 8.19 (bad)
1000/121 = 8.26 (bad)
1000/120 = 8.33 (bad)
..
1000/112 = 8.93 (bad)
1000/111 = 9.009009 (good)
..
1000/100 = 10 (good)

If a "bad" value is given, it will round up to the highest good value. So, 112 will become 125, 110 will become 111 and so on.

This is the way it works in q3, and cg_drawFPS will display exactly this.

However, in quakelive cg_drawFPS has been tampered with such that its value will not go higher than com_maxfps. This results in an obfuscation of the actual FPS being shown when com_maxfps is set to a "bad" value. So for example with com_maxfps 120,
cg_drawFPS shows 120, when it is in fact 125.

This can be verified by using a 3rd party FPS measurement program, such as fraps. Sync also confirmed that this was the case when I asked him about it.

thx :)

I think it is slightly misleading to label them bad - there is nothing fundamentally bad about the framerates it is just not possible to achieve them.

The delay between each frame is measured in milliseconds (as an integer, so fractional numbers are not valid) and the framerate is controlled by waiting for this time to expire. Therefore the framerate will snap to all the values where 1000/fps is a whole number (125=8ms time between frames, 111.111...=9ms, 62.5fps=16ms)

I think it is slightly misleading to label them bad - there is nothing fundamentally bad about the framerates it is just not possible to achieve them.

I wanted to describe things in a simple way, and good vs. bad does the trick. Not sure if I agree with it, but i see your point.

The delay between each frame is measured in milliseconds (as an integer, so fractional numbers are not valid) and the framerate is controlled by waiting for this time to expire. Therefore the framerate will snap to all the values where 1000/fps is a whole number (125=8ms time between frames, 111.111...=9ms, 62.5fps=16ms)

Fps is the value we are controlling and it is what is commonly known, so that is what I chose to mention.

The question being asked was "why", and the answer is the fact that delay must be an integer value in ms.

The explanation I gave was more 'how' it works than 'why', which I think people care more about.

So you are correct, but I think also being a bit pedantic.

The original question remains unanswered:

Or you need smth like a bit extra fps above hz rate for more stable feel/picture?

Yes - if you used 120 FPS on 120 Hz display without vsync, you would get a horrible tear line.

The added few fps don't make the tearing stop (only vsync does), but the tear line jumps around so it becomes virtually invisible.

You can say it's "more stable picture", as that's the feel.

(Try it in ezQuake, there you can set maxfps to whatever value and actually get exactly that many frames per second.)

so r_displayrefresh=120Hz with vsync on and com_maxfps>=120 would do the job, right?

Imagine doing this on a 60 Hz monitor though.

With 120 FPS but vsync off, you'd get 2 stable tear lines.

With vsync on, you get 60 FPS and more output lag which Quakers hate.

125 FPS is the solution!

[Damn, I keep clicking [+] instead of "Reply", ESR is too hard for me.]

i considered the 120hz monitor as a granted feature;)
edit: vsync on @120Hz should result in about 8ms lag, not so much.

1. Quakers hate lag religiously, even if it's not noticeable.

2. If you have more lags on different stages (input, processing, output), they may add up to become noticeable.

3. There are setups where vsync gives much more input lag. Actually I mean the specific case of dual-head ATI (badly thought-out drivers), but maybe others, who knows!

In the end, 125 fps seems a really good default value if you consider that it's used on big variety of users' systems.

vsync is bad, was so in the 90's still is today :C

As ppl spread some opposite statements considering fps-hz stuff could you pls expalin it once again on a simple example to make it clear:
1)Lets say you have 60hz monitor and 120fps. What side effects would you get? According to your post as far as fps>hz its ok?
2) Opposite case-you have 120 hz monitor but could only get 60fps. Then you would face tearing as a side effect, right?

you don't want a 60hz monitor for games, you surely do not want 60fps in quake. so... what the fuck are you talking about?!

you want (slightly) higher fps than hz to not run into trouble when the screen refreshes. fps = hz and you will see artifacts, in the worst case you'll literally see a line where it updates the picture.

A good reason is to make the best out of the netcode and send the full 125 packets per second. And it's also much better when it comes to tearing, yes.

megaman3 i definitely agree with you about this guy

it is somewhat my fault that he is here though. Typed "esr" in one of his threads on the ql forums :/

Yes, it can definitely make you better. Although I only have experience with mouse, but since I switched from an average joe to a WMO I got significantly better. I still play on a laptop with shitty hardware, though. 120hz monitors, or even a good PC is something I just can't afford now. But if you have money, get on shopping, because I think a good gear can make you a mediocre player by itself. And if by any chance you are already a mediocre player then a good gear can propel you into the 1500-1800 elo range easily. To go further you need heavy practice, though.

Go back to the ql forums. This is esreality, not game support for retards that cannot google.

i wouldn't know :(

It's exactly the other way around: it's not that a good gaming hardware makes you better, it's that a bad gaming hardware makes you worst .

cheap hardware makes you richer

[+] ;)

Ohhhh ye! Wrong cheap hardware makes you terribly poor though. Don't buy crucial m4 SSD only because they are cheap. They are also shit :/

you just have to put some holes in the casing of cheap SSD`s, they fry themselves, and put a HDD cooler on the back if you dont have enough case cooling

Or buy Intel.

just buy a USB 3.0 keyring mem stick for £40

I would buy a 60 GB Intel SSD for that price (or another Hitachi 1 TB...disk space is getting annoyingly insufficient here).

doesnt make you better, but shit hw makes you shit

THIS!

It's the same with hardware and with game config - you need to eliminate problems that you have. If you don't have a problem, you don't need to do anything (and especially spend money on anything).

You're fine on 125 Hz mouse if it's not a WMO. You're fine on 60 Hz monitor if it doesn't have input lag (most have though!). You're fine on jumping FPS (like jumping 80-120 in different parts of the map) if you don't use new-style accel. You're fine on high sensitivity if your mouse/mousepad don't have high static friction. Etc. etc.

Is ESR malfunctioning or did you actually post this recently? Accel style has been gone for a long time.

I was under impression that cvar is gone but specific values of accel power or something still use the old code paths. But I don't use accel myself, so I'm excused ;)

So you're saying that nowadays, accel is unconditionally FPS-dependent?

FPS-independent. Unconditional within reason.

Given everything that I've read/tested I am 95 % sure of it.

Can't be 100 % sure without examining the source code.

:(

you're prolly best player ever considering your home setup :D

yay \:D/

yes.

for me, yes. i started on 20fps, then 55fps, then 76fps, then the magical 125fps. every step made everything feel better, and i played much better

might be more q3engine than ql tho, heard they 'fixed' it?

and i played much better

I think it's rather "I played less worse". You probably were good in the first place, but bad hardware/settings/etc made you perform subpar.

However, if you're bad in the first place, you won't improve going from 60fps to 125fps for example.

I definitely did improve quite a bit when switching from 60Hz to 120Hz (never thought that the difference would be that big).

true, i guess. hard to measure it :p

It's like asking a formula pilote if he makes better result with an F1 or a random car.

Nope it's not, in Motorsport a huge part of success depends on your machine.
It's more like asking a professional skateboarder weather he will preform better or worse with normal sneakers for 50€ or some és skate-shoes for 100€. He won't preform much different but the normal sneakers will be trash after just a few days of intense skating while the és ones will hold for some more days.

Isn't it more like asking if a learner has a higher chance of passing the driving test with a F1 racing car?

Good hardware doesn't make you better but bad hardware will make you worse so as long as you have a good mouse, good mouse feet, good mouse mat, 120hz low latency monitor, good keyboard, decent internet connection, a gfx card that will run the game happily at 125 fps and a comfortable config to play then nothing should be holding you back to be as good as you can be. What's left is your own skill and ability.

yes, yes. Good mouse is the tricky part though. I got my good mouse for 5$

I found a wmo at work - best mouse I have ever used :D

There is a big difference between good hardware as in getting the game to run stable and fluently and good hardware as in mouse/headphones/keyboard/mousepad.
The first one is crucial in order to make sure that you are not crippled by bad game performance, but for QL it's also easy to get the game run stable. A Core 2 Duo with 2Ghz, 2 GB of DDR2 ram, Nvidia 7600GT or equivalent ATi gfx-card and a 120Hz LCD monitor or a 19" CRT and you are good to go for sure.
The later one is something up for discussion, while it is proven that cheap mice/keyboard/headphones will cripple you it is absolutely not true that a 150€ mechanical keyboard + 60€ Razer or SS mouse + 80 headphones will magically make you play better.
Most professional players switch their hardware every time their sponsor either changes or brings out the new "non plus ultra gear that will turn you into a pro in the blink of an eye", still after a few days or weeks they are on the same level they were on while using their old gear (shows us that it's a matter of skill and experience not gear). Once you have a decent setup that you feel comfortable with you should stay with it so you won't have to readjust all the time.

all you need is a good mouse(as in comfortable and not 'skipping' etc, not necessarily a expensive one) , 125fps(and a good config), good headphones so u can hear ppl and if you can afford it a good 120hz monitor

All you need is a mx518/G400, minimum friction, high sens and accel, and a stable low ping.

Happy fraggin'

High sens? I heard lower sens is better.

Yes it does my aim went through the roof when i brought this mouse...12% up to 29% acc..