hi

I suggest discuss possibility of making group stage to give players more gametime(experience). imo that possible by limiting number of teams(players) and making 2 skill matched drafts. For example highest(by qlstats rating) 32/48/64 players participate in one draft and lowest 32/48/64 in another draft.
Better do one skill based draft in one day.

+earlier start
last map Terminatria

I understand what you're saying, but that would remove too much of what those drafts mean to me.

How else can I play an actual cup on a team with a top player who's sharing his experience over Mumble/TS3? And how else can a noob like me have a real chance to get to some cup's final and play for prizes?

This is the only chance us low tier noobs can get to learn from the good players. Don't take it away from us :(

...on a team with a top player who's sharing his experience over Mumble/TS3?

look at the caps at last draft http://tdmpickup.eu/#switchTo9 and u really think that they are so top players that can share theirs experience over Mumble/TS3?

And how else can a noob like me have a real chance to get to some cup's final and play for prizes?

imho ur rating(15.79) is acceptable to participate in both drafts and u can play in both finals for great prizes(3-month pro membership) )))
why faceit/clanbase/hoq supports skill based division and #tdmpickup draft cant?

1) It's not about being "so-top-player" rather than sharing your experience as a captain - doesn't matter how much of it you have, you still have more. And yes, you can give the other players an idea what they are supposed to do and what does higher tier tdm expect from them filling their roles. Now it comes down to each individual captain to be able to explain this and this has nothing to do with experience rather than personality.

edit: nevermind, read the 2nd point wrong.

rehe is a good example for a good captain. I learned a lot playin with him and the other guys and it was a great experience. I would not wana miss that! I have the same point of view as Lam and even if I would ever get somewhere near a top player I'd still think playing with "noobs" is a good and fun thing to do.

Of course we _can_ split into divisions. But we don't _need_ to.

That's because we don't create teams of different skills. The bot generates teams that are all at similar average skill. This is nothing like the teams that CB/HoQ get.


And you propose limiting players who can play on a given day not because there's actual need to create higher and lower skilled draft. Instead, that's only to limit number of teams, because you want a mini-league instead of a cup.

I'm sure we can come up with a solution providing more games to everyone while not restricting anything.

Quick idea: up to 8 groups of 4 teams, 2-3 bo1 games guaranteed per team, then only the top team advances to the playoffs. That's maximum of 3*bo1+3*bo3, instead of current 5*bo3. Shouldn't take much more time.

seems like bo1 doesn't go with players in the draft, it always comes down to playing 1 map and that is it.

Well, most of the teams would have to play 3 bo1s there, that's similar to losing a bo3 (but with more delays, hehe).

Right now we're pushing to get bo3 all the way as you can see (by starting an hour earlier), so at least SE bo1 is gone.

It's still not optimal solution but others have drawbacks too (also see discussion about swiss-system tournament below, comment #33).

My vote goes towards "GRIM DUNGEONS"!

I'm okay with the earlier start. But where to vote? If here, in comments, then I vote Grim Dungeons.

That's why we would like you to vote in the comments on the 5th map in the maplist.

HOW COULD YOU MISS IT.

It's called selective reading. What I read:

tournament, Sunday 17th of February.

start one hour earlier (17:00 CET) all games BO3.

vote either Grim Dungeons, Intervention or Terminatria.

Select better.

also increase the minimum requirement amount of games to 15-20

i asked to start later, so that i could play, and u start earlier. ok i'll take the hint :(

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one."
-- sorry ins

This is blatant discrimination against those who are vertically handicapped.

Why not "Deep Inside" as a map to vote for?

Those 3 maps are 5th/6th/7th most played maps in #tdmpickup in the past month / 3 months.

Terminatria

Not Tornado? :)

(Terminatria for me too!)

clashing with faceit isn't very good imo

would a 1 map loser bracket prolong the cup very much?

1 map LB would prolong the cup by 1.5 - 2 hours approx.

I'm very curiouse about that calculation

Where single elimination bracket would be done already, in 1 map LB, there would still be left to play at least LB finals (BO1) and grand final (BO3).. I don't think those two matches would be played in less than 1.5 - 2h.

Terminatria

Foolish Legacy

Although I deeply hate them both, Grim Dungeons is the lesser of two evils here.

Maybe Deep Inside isn't played because you need everyone to agree with it in normal pickup as it's in the optional pool? :(

Terminatria

Replace all maps with dm20 and dm6 to let players perform their best aiming and arcade skillz in ffa tdm tournament.

Foolish legacy? You kidding me? Its not possible to dominate with rail-only here, need team co-ordination and team-based tactics. We dont want to learn it if it takes only 2 matches to learn. We do want open-area railable CA style non-shamanic maps, on and on, more impressives. And at new or real-tdm maps, brainless aimers can LOOSE - ITS unacceptable.

Better add dm6 and leave dm20 for us and Wision, yes, no need to put a vote, just write some shet comments and i'll decide somehow based on my feeling and avarage hospital's temperature.

i see terminatria wasn't played once, perhaps replace that with a different map if it's still in the top 5 next time.

7 map pool and fine with 1 hour earlier start :)

Grim Dungeons

I'd be glad to start earlier and play Bo3s. For the map my vote goes for Grim Dungeons, because that was a public map for a long time, so non-pickup players can identify with it as well.

Earlier start and Terminatria.

Grim Dungeons

swiss brackets + bo1!

Swiss system sounds great for our purposes, but:

- There's a global round delay. In SE bracket, one half may be delayed in round 2, another half in round 3, but those delays don't accumulate. In swiss system tournament, delays would stack.

- Positive side effect of delays in SE bracket is that stream can usually cover two quarterfinals and both semifinals. In swiss system all matches would be played late, but start at the same time.

- There's another thing related to streaming the event. Winner is often decided before the final round, taking away from the excitement of watching a "final".

I'm the only one around here fixated about streaming the event, but I think the global delay will scare everyone off anyhow.

and SE throws out half the attendees after one game, while this is clearly an event for the players and not for specs

Read the last line please :)

However, after thinking about it few more minutes, with a system guaranteeing many games it would become fair to just give default wins in case some teams can't play (because someone went for fast food - they can get back for the next round if they still want to play for 3rd place at best).

Will need a lot more admins though to keep order and decide who doesn't show. Are you volunteering?

so far I didn't need adminning in any of the tdmpickup drafts, there needs to be one player present of the 2 teams who can read, and the rules should be a bit more transparent/visible compared to last time

also with swiss brackets it's easier to find which games are worthy to stream, because continually the teams with the most wins will play each other, looking at the teams with some experience beforehand could help with a good seeding, so the top 4 won't play each other in the first games

So far we had to disqualify one team in one of the drafts, plus allow 4 substitutions IIRC. That's not a lot of admin work.

But if we want to keep swiss system going, we'd probably need to punish 2 or so teams each round (and join server, check who showed up and who didn't). Plus number of scores to enter is multiplied.

So you're not a volunteer, ok.

"So you're not a volunteer, ok."
funny because this tie guy always whining about how low the nr of sign ups is and still doesn't do a shit for the community :)

you mad :D

I call everyone on my friends list a shithead if they don't sign up for the face it stuff, not enough?

Lam even though I enjoy playing a lot in those pickups and tournaments I'd still volunteer (in general) to do some admin work.

I also like a swiss system, but the problem with it can be the spare time between the rounds. My ideas how it could be doable, but I'm not really experienced.
First give every game a number and have n (=number of games) server spawned with the name (#tdmpickup #x, I think wision can do this).
Second every round should have a forced map, so with 5 rounds every team will play every map once. This will also remove the process of mappicking.
The schedule of a round.
Every team has 5-7 mins to join the server for the game. I think this should be doable because you dont have to spawn one and it is clear what server you should use.
After 7 mins a team can demand a forfeit win. The captain should send a screenshot (example). It shows the players that are on the server, the clock and that it is the correct server.
With this rule every match should started at least after 10 mins and after 30 mins ended (or 32 if there is OT). Every team have 5 min to report the result and then the admin team has 10 min (maybe 5 min if it is enough) to enter the result and create the next round. If both teams did report a result it will result in a tie or loss for both teams.
With this schedule everyone that he has to be back after 45 mins.
With a 5 round tournament, what is realistic. It will be over after 4 hours 15 mins.
Then you can maybe do a bo3 final between the top 2 teams.

Terminus?

I have no problem with having the tournament an hour earlier, for the 5th map my vote goes to terminatria.

osp5 :>

ok ok dm14

Intervention.

left behind.... I know its not an option here.... But I hope to see it in some pools soon :)

It's a 2v2 map. I wish to see it in 2v2 pools, but 2v2 tournament organizers are all three-mappers, sadly.

i dont see why it couldnt work in 4v4 aswell though

I've seen LOTS of public 4v4s on Almost Lost too.

LoL
Yes and terminatria is 2v2? And other maps that is not favorite also are 2v2?)
We got many gg's 4v4 tdm on leftbehind on #qlpickup.ru and ppl pick it.
So how u explain dm20 is good 4v4 and leftbehind is not)?

Leftbehind is rly cool map, yeah its a bit arcade and specific but possible to control spots and do teamwork.

As long as on #tdmpickup TS is rarely used, you got some specific tdm that can be transformed to full FFA action.

I watch some #tdmpickup silents streams and what can i say...majority of teammates dont give timing on items, so a player can pick RED just behind mates nose and tmate will wait 15-20 second for it + info about enemy quad is dead or not, where is enemy/quad etc.

So after watching this tdm horror, realized that it is more individual tdm, so players rly only on his skills then teamwork.

Thats about "It's a 2v2 map" judgment

It's already obvious that you can't tell a difference between 2v2 and 4v4 map.

Why is silent pickup stream a factor in judging maps?

How can you tell if people who you're spectating are or aren't sharing times of items? (Fact: you can't see whether they're on TS; another fact: you can't see team chat when spectating)

really happy for the earlier start and bo3 from first round!
my vote goes to terminatria

DM14

Intervention in and Terminatria out.

They are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, from best to worst. Intervention being the best ofcourse.

What is the sense of this post untill where is no OPEN vote option for pickup players?

Maps will be chosen by admins not by community, you have no vote, or someone gonna count map comments? How do we know what players rly want to see in list.

"Your vote can either go to Grim Dungeons, Intervention or Terminatria. "

LoL they even dont give you and options :-) You can "choose" from A to B - real Wision's democracy in action.

Why not Left behind, Tornado, Whatever map?
Yes, they have already explanation for you) they know what better for you, so plz post a comment with A or B option slaves)

dm14

grim dungeons

maps that work in pickup : dm20
maps that somewhat work : dreadful place, purga, terminatria
maps that don't really work : intervention, limbus, osp5
maps that don't work at all : terminus, dm14

not mentioning tornado on purpose

ugh limbus is probably the best pickup map there is, you really dont have to give a shit about your team at all :D

weird, to me limbus is like dm14. There are two clear sides which you have to hold

In drafts ppl tend to use teamspeak wich makes it more organized than regular pickup. So with basic tactics every map should work.