In my own perspective, I think the height should be lowered a bit. Would be amazingly fun to play with pql physics i believe :D

or CPM! :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Well it already is ins-sized..

Get out CS player :P

just let it go...make a new fucking map

true, true

+1
pro-q3dm6 was always good as it is with its original layout and gameplay, no need to equalize the maps.

It's so cute :D

Looks interesting but a bit cramped. With a tight layout like this, it's rl imba.

a dm6 that small would be so easily spamable

Cityy made a test map to test some textures on which was basically an oversized campgrounds...

http://cityy.explicits.de/3d/?page=camp

I think it would be a fucking magnificient tdm map... and I've been begging him to finish it for ages but he insists he never intends to finish it. Anyway, if anyone else is up to it, I think the way to improve dm6 is to make it bigger like cityy has, not smaller (ie, make an oversized dm6 for a new tdm map, but not replacing original dm6)

As for duel, just remove the retardedly imbalanced YA-pillars initial spawn (keep it for mid-game spawns) and add a green armor somewhere near YA for obvious reasons. Other than that I wouldn't touch it.

and as for your friends map... that's just too small lol, what is he smoking

whoa a++

Yeah, I remember finding his project a few months back. Would really love to see a finished version!

Loved the textures, blackmail him by (input creative idea here) and we will have a new map soon? :D

ga @ pillar sg and dm6 would be even more awesome than it is now...

making it smaller would result in another all aim no brain hektik like map

These ideas might not be for a new one, but how to fix the old:

I totally disagree with making it smaller to make it faster. We have enough fast maps. The reasons why it plays slow are:

a) Railgun can cover the whole map from 3 different positions. This means that the player out of control can not move around and has to camp the safe areas, which are really open to begin with. In addition, since the map is so open, shaft dominates it, making the average damage output really LG-heavy. You can lay traps, but it is really easy to back away into shaft distance in every situation.

b) The map does not have enough armor for the player out of control which means that he has to remain hidden/passive for longer period of time to accumulate respectable challengers stack. Also, because there is lack of armor, the player in control does really not have to give away position to deny the additional armors so the player out of control could take position on him.

So the solutions would be:

a) Add a pillar or any other relevant architecture to the large space of the map to cut the line of sight. This makes the players use projectile weapons more to "bend" around the corners. OR the item positions can be changed so that the areas for main items would not be so open aka hitscan heavy. If you look at Furious Heights for example then you can see that both the main rooms have pillars and posts there to increase the effectiveness of close quarters weapons. Pillars also help a player to get closer to other one.

b) Add more armor. Maybe a 25 to pillar shotgun or/and some shard to mid level. This means you can get armor -> you need to move more -> he needs to move more to deny it -> positions are more easily swapped. So you have 2 ways to come back - accumulate armor or block him from the next big item if he wants to deny you your minor armors.

And the topic of PQL and maps:

I don't understand why making the game faster and adding smaller maps go hand-in-hand. It just makes the games more rushy-spammy and removes the concept of dodging - you just don't have the room to dodge (tox for example). Let alone the actually decision making and metagmae in whole suffers.

True. Anyone remember the special cq3 layout made for cpma 1.47?
Just load up CPMA, callvote map !pro-q3dm6cq3 and check it out, it's basically the same in terms of size and item layout with a GA added near SG spawn and another GA replacing shards (not that relevant). I would maybe add another 3-5 armor shards on mid level on the YA side of the map or near the pillars.

Like rehepapp said, this forces the player in control to have to either give up position for full map control or allow the player out of control to pick up the GA/shards, thus not needing to +back for 4 minutes while stacking up on YA's for a chance to challenge over control of the map without changing the map drastically and retaining its original feel.

I recommend for anyone who still has Q3/CPMA installed to check !pro-q3dm6cq3 (and !nodm9acq3 while your at it, a great adaptation of dm13 for cpm gameplay!).

open spaces atm are double edge sword, as out of control player can abuse cheeky rails, IF hes sneaky enough to get it :-)


in the end dm6 is all about item awarness

I don't think that cutting the line of sight necessarily takes away sneaky rails. They don't have to be major cuttings. For example imagine that there are 2-3 pillars on the second floor right above shaft (in front of the 2x25 bubbles). it would make that part of the map navigable and adds defense from the rails from top. The sneaky rails would still be there - you can use the pillars as covers and additional angles.

theres only one hp bubble there :b

boxes... lets do it q2 style

I was thinking something like this http://imgur.com/1NBIR6O
Similar can be added to railgun-red area. There are 2 in tdm:P
Edit: and imagine if there were 5 shards right next to these pillars, right side on the picture. Or maybe 5 shards at the side of the quadpitledge that comes from pillar sg.

they're the wonkiest pillars i've ever seen

pillars made of potat

hehe, we had exactly those in our version: http://esreality.com/post/1780303/new-dm6-ver...d-discuss/

dl link aint avail anymore tho :/

but then that fucks up the straight strafejump line from ya to ra :/

You can position them so that it would not. This is a conceptual placement - they can be more left or right, 2 or 3 or even 1 pillar.

My viewpoint is that there is too much armor. Change RA for another YA and have a 2 minute mega.

I would like to try both.

instant disadvantage for current ra spawns

I always thought that adding GA to LG stairs (right next to spawn) could do the thing.

I thought sinister is a new dm6. Isn't it?

Reminds me of wargrounds. It's looks very cramped though, a fun idea nonetheless.

great!

good work :))

regular dm6 just like the tmp version. 2 ya's no ra no mh. its rediculous good and speeds up too.

holes in pillars or bridge to rail and spam

like the idea...

i have 1 suggestion if you shrink dm6:...skip rail.

how about to remake ztn

like switching ra - rail and change the texture more dark and put in a teleporter in the upper ya room instead of were its placed now ontop of the stairs... :/

id rather see a new map than a modified old one tbh.

Me too but I wouldn't say no to this map, game play would be totally different. The more maps the better but I do think it needs to be controlled by id - even premium to a certain extent.

This. dm6 is like a visiting card of Quake, it cannot be changed.

Would be very cool to try this out.

Thanks to all for comment my weird idea of a making a small campgrounds.
I understand who prefer a larger dm6, and those who see big problems on playing in a smaller one. And those who said "leave it and make a new one" i understand too.
Dm6 is a old (in the good sense) and classic map, almost untouchable.
But...i realy wanna try.
All comments i read here are important, specialy those about map playability.
Ty all :)

try, lets see how it works out :-)

i think dm6 size is good. The items layout should be reworked that is all. The only size modification worth it would be the extended version by Ferdinan cityy to make it a tiny bit biger for TDM or CA i suppose.

I can understand extendind it for CA but for TDM? It was the only map that was used for playing competitive duel, 2v2 and 4v4 and it never was too small for that. Right now it might not work well with new spawn system for duel, but I miss it in tdm :(

the plan would involve making a larger version of dm6 but keeping both versions

Ok then

Are you kidding me?

It's the only duel map ever tried in 4v4.

It's the map that has 1/3rd (!) of health/armor of current era TDM maps.

It's the map that was dropped first when QL got new maps.

Can you even imagine a good map losing its spot in competitions to something like Dreadful Place? (never played in Q3; didn't win any mapping competition or anything; completely new style - and yet Quake players felt the need to try and learn it? How come?!)

Face it - dm6 is shit in duel and TDM. Works in 2v2 though.

Are you fucking kidding me?

bla bla bla

bla

bla bla

Face it - dm6 wasn't dropped for being shit in duel and tdm

It was dropped by players who think ESWC 2008 is old school ;D

DM6 is unbalanced in 1v1, but still great in 4v4.

just put it upside down, like this: 9wp

This is obviously too extreme, but i love the idea.
Reminds me of how ztn looks in qw (way better than ql's version)

got a claustrophobic feeling by watching this video

uh dont like, at all.

nice

it's a nice idea but i think you've downsized it too much. leaving out certain parts like a rail ledge, stairs from lg to middle area and a simplified ya area could really work. but that would ask for the map to be somewhere between the original size, and the one you made.

I feel your idea would work much better on a map like deep inside or intervention by turning a map that's too big for duel into a simplified smaller edition of a tdm classic. that way you keep the classic feel but with a new purpose.

i agree. as it is now, you wouldn't be able to do 2 straight strafe jumps on that map.

I feel glad for all comments, im sure they will help me on doing my petite dm6 ;))
The most interesting comments are about playability, is what ql/q3 is about.
Is realy what i need to know.
Ty all

i say - make it happen. call it Campgrounds Redux. Send it to Id Software. ppl like it? - they play it. ppl don't like it - they don't. simple.

quake doesnt work like that. for it to be played it got to have been in the game for at least 10 years

fine. let's abandon our creative efforts and play ztn over and over again. sounds legit.

ztn and aerowalk are played 5719.4% more than silence and sinister. dont know how much more legit it gets

Sadly it doesn't work like this in QL.

Just managing to get your map into QL is according to some really hard - getting hundreds of people to try it out and play it is another story.

It goes like this:
Map X gets released
Map X gets comapred to ztn/t7/dm6
Map X is different from said maps
Map X is used in a single tournament, a big name loses on it
Map X is proclaimed "bad unbalanced lol"
Map X is forgotten

ive played 6++ about 10 years ago

^^

now you will be able to play for he next 10 years dm6--

:]

Should name the map crampedgrounds.

Very nice, lol.

Beat me to it, have my [+]

i hate the new cramped maps, all those corners and stairs, go away!

I like the idea. No harm in trying at least.

But I do think it turned out too small. Make it somewhere between original and what you have now. :)

DM6 dimensions really shouldn't be messed with in my opinion - the size and architecture are a perfect example of how to make a large map that works well for both 1v1 and 4v4. It isn't easy to pull off design wise. Most largish maps are just confusing and undermine players awareness of their opponent, but DM6 still flows quite well and allows for fast movement about the map and good awareness of the other player. Examples of how difficult this is to achieve are Battleforged and maybe Sinister which both in my opinion fail in some degree (Battleforged more than Sinister) to achieve a successfully dynamic large duel map. It's difficult to do but DM6 succeeds and manages to do it without the need for teleports which are normally the fall back option for designers of large maps. Small maps are relatively easy to design, but eventually all play in a very similar way... Still it would be interesting to see this cramped version of DM6 just out of curiosity :)

a lot of interesting things have been said.
I just want to add (or maybe repeat) that the railgun should be more reachable for the player out of control. imagine placing the railgun where the gl is. The player out of control can then do dmg without getting spotted.

is this where all "short ins" jokes come from?

Finally !!!!!!!!!
For those who are curious a those who hate the idea, here is my reduced DM6, which i called Swift dm1
See and tell me good and bad things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6VLh5jTQY

congratulations :D i want it

Why Z is so high, while XY reduced a lot?

I think it looks better now than the original (your original) but I'd loooove to see a video in timescale 1 and maybe with some added brightness. It's hard to really see the map and the little details in such a dark video.

Please, do another one :)

good work !!!! :)

Looks good, but maybe you should try to lower height a bit(not by much, just a little)+you need a lot of testing for spawns and weapon placement.

yes, please

just some ideas:

move PG up to that little box where you have LG
move SG to YA room (where you have the shotgun ammo now)
move LG to the old SG spawn (under RA)
then put a green armor where you had the plasma

maybe like this: http://imgur.com/a/An3av
(i'm not in love with the shards being there, seems a bit crazy to have 45 armor in one spot but it might make for some interesting play since it will be so crucial to control)


also possibly think about making a platform connecting that little box where you have the LG now to the rail platform, like this: http://i.imgur.com/DNbyrCt.jpg


it definitely looks interesting. i'd love to see it played

Swiftgrounds. :D

nice!
but...imho there are tons of small maps, duel ql need new medium/big maps like t7/dm6, not 1room aim-massacre like hektik/aero. Big and simple. Gief a small chance for defence players/"smartass" +backers ffs!

I wonder what are sounds like, players could hear almost through entire map??And those small entrances,corridors are perfect for rocket spamming.. dont think this map has anything to do with swiftness despite its size bro, though its probablly a nice project to have fun with.Would still like to try it!

AHaaaaaaaaaa =Dˇ^

small all rail no brain map, just what ql needs

That update actually looks cool and less cramped, and now I would actually wanna try it out. If rocketspamming and hearing the enemy end up fucking the flow of the map, maybe add a teleport or 2 :x

[+] for slowmo preview and rj synced with the music (sonic mayhem?)

My ideal campgrounds remake is still this though.

YES, I want this as well. cityy, get to work!

Nothing wrong with original dm6 ,most brilliant map ever built,works for everything.

Have fun regaining control on that.

make 6++ pls <3

\o/

looks like a rocket spam fest

Can't watch that walkthrough video, it's too much like fucking Halo. Making me feel sick.

It looks like someone reduced the gravity or some shit o.o

I want a real preview! :c

so what happened?

feels like overkill shit, vertical cancer....

I really like the concept especially the little lightning gun, makes getting weapons a bit harder too. What I would say is that especially in the pillar areas, there is a lot of space. For newer players it would be ridiculously hard not to get railed by other more experienced players in that much space

Why would you make it even more narrow? That was the only nice thing about campgrounds is that it wasn't super narrow.

lol free RG if you get LG.