BST mentioned wanting to pursue something like this already.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2402325

very bad idea.

why would that be a bad idea?

different mouses for different game? how dumb could be that?
and if you want to change your mouse, but other, they doesn't cost 500 euro each.

So it's a bad idea because you don't like it?

Your reasoning is flawed.

no, reason is to stay with same "tool" in most sports, you better adapt you it and better controll it. Let football/bassketball players change ball size , it will f*ck up them easy..

And that's exactly what the point of this would be: using the same shell, while using better components.

cause every shell got unique layout, every shell has differently placed buttons, different inside dimensions, etc, and from a business perspective it's MUCH cheaper to create a PCB for some shell than vice versa.
Some time ago I actually had an idea of starting an open-source DIY project where we could implement a firmware&software for some controller and design/sell PCBs for different popular shells so users could make their dream mouse without troubles instead of frankenmousing or whining on forums. One guy has already done his own somewhat proprietary firmware in the past(and that was the most smoothest and responsive thing with the most 'analogue' feel i ever tried completely thrasing wmo despite being based on a3080 with angle-snapping), basically you could calibrate/setup every detail of sensor and movement(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/11777259/210057.png), but only a few people ever made those mice themselves cause that demands some soldering and crafting skills. Also he stopped development and vanished for quite some time. I technically could start such a project, but i don't really have time atm nor in the nearest future.

One guy has already done his own somewhat proprietary firmware in the past

Any more info on that if possible?

this is dumb, or even beyond its retarded.I will number couple of reasons why..

1.Common consumer is not able to solder the parts himself to the PCB in order to function properly.

2.In order to follow diy philosophy you would need to do re-orders from electronics distributors such as Mouser/Farnell and such types which adds cca. 30/40e just for shipment only, like picking up from types of switches,cables,capacitors etc.Which leads to conclusion that such mouse would exceed the price of 100e easily and is not favorable to common consumer.Which in translation means that you would still need to buy a complete soldered PCB without any influence whatsoever on the parts selection...

3.Because there is no standardisation in PCB or mouse shells dimension manufacturing, you cannot simply fit random PCB to random shell.You can either make one type of PCB that fits in shells specialy molded to this certain PCB, or do a new PCB every time for each different shell.Either way if you need to order a production batch if its just pertinax or epoxy fr-4 such costs are enormous and there is nobody with as slightest common sense that would do this, even if there was some circle of customers willing to pay.

If this is a reply to me I obviously meant the sales of ready to use pcbs with all the components installed for general consumers if we're talking about production and obviously that's not gonna cover every mouse shell(at least on start)
But the project itself would be open source so enthusiasts with proper knowledge and skills could do their own pcb for the needed mouse themselves(and components aren't that expensive, the only hard-to-find detail is the sensor itself and you can simply desolder it from some old/broken/cheap mouse, thx to interchangeable sroms of all a3080+ sensors). Or even not bother making your own separate pcb and do everything on the old one like http://i.imgur.com/olHJaf3.jpg for example

theres a 5min post difference who do you think I was reffering to?I was reffering to ops post.. he specificly stated "starter kit" and not completed kit.

Yes you can etch your own PCB, but thats still not something you can do.You need to deal with great care when making your own acid, otherwise it can blowup in your face and you endup like Freddy Krueger.There are already bottles with preprepared Feri-Chloride acids that you can buy etc.There are also several methods of how to imprint the circuitry on the PCB, its even enough to use a alcohol flomaster.And thats not "old pcb" ure reffering to, but PROTO board used for development, which is not something id recommend for novice.. theres also the stripped variant of PROTO the one specificaly from ur pic is difficult to use.I seriously doubt that any of you have such knowledge to etch your own pcbs rather dont play with dangerous things, it is NOT something a common user can do!

edit:I dunno wtf do your interchangable sroms mean?But if youre trying to tell me that you can switch ICs from 16pin-dil, that can only be done if IC is pin compatible otherwise NOT!!!And some ICs can be soldered in SMD type, which is again something you cannot do lmao.Oh and parts are expensive to buy unless you place an order for 150e then you receive free delivery shipment

I guess you misunderstand, when i said about sroms I meant that any avago sensor with 20 pin architecture starting from adns3080(released almost 10 years ago) will act as a new adns3090 when you upload the proper rom in it. Which means that there're millions of old/cheap mice where you can get the sensor from instead of wasting money on ADNK kit.
And I wasn't talking about proto board on that photo, I meant that you don't even need to etch your own main PCB board to solder everything on it. Though it only makes sense if the shell you wanna use is already based on 20pin adns sensor. Just leave the sensor on it's position, cut it's traces and solder it to external controller. The proto board is there cause the avr microcontroller, it's oscillator and a few smd resistors/capacitors(most are there to interface 3.3V sensor and 5V controller) are soldered on it's bottom for easy wire soldering. And actually I wanted to start from making a firmware implementation for some small USB dev board with a 3.3V MCU like Teensy 3.0 which might be a bit overpriced but this way you won't even need good soldering/crafting skills or many electrical components(apart for a couple of smd resistors/capacitors which are dirt cheap) to build your own mouse from an old mouse based on ADNS-3080/ADNS-3090/ADNS-S3088/ADNS-S3888/ADNS-S3668/ADNS-S3095/whatever.
And etching own PCB for other shells ain't really that complicated(my first selfmade PCB came out perfect on 1st try), once again the fact that this project is opensource would be aimed at enthusiasts who got or want to get experience in soldering and pcb etching. For casual people there will be ready-to-use PCBs with every component soldered in so you just gotta paste it into your favorite popular mouse shell and voila.

3090+ has flash protection if im not mistaken.

Only 3080 and below can be interchanged with multiple SROMs. (illegal technically)

What do you mean by flash protection?
3080 can use 3090, 3095 or any razer srom, while 3060 actually is different from 3080, where they introduced the interpolator in the dsp algorithm, noone could make a 3060<->3080 work yet afaik
as for 3090 there's no point in downgrading it so... ;p

Official 3090 SROM shouldn't be able to flash on to 3060/3080 labeled IC's. At least from what I was explained from two different sources. Again illegal, but it's been tried from an R&D aspect.

S3095 SROM looks like it was uploaded to G400's with S3080E chips (left over stock). But being a top customer isn't likely a concern for sensor manufacturer.

3080 SROM on 3060 chip is fairly common. Ikari, Original EC1/2, Naos 3200, etc..

And etching own PCB for other shells ain't really that complicated(my first selfmade PCB came out perfect on 1st try), once again the fact that this project is opensource would be aimed at enthusiasts who got or want to get experience in soldering and pcb etching. For casual people there will be ready-to-use PCBs with every component soldered in so you just gotta paste it into your favorite popular mouse shell and voila.

When you put it like that, it sounds soooo easy! :D

I guess you misunderstand, when i said about sroms I meant that any avago sensor with 20 pin architecture starting from adns3080(released almost 10 years ago) will act as a new adns3090 when you upload the proper rom in it.

Ah, you could have said AVR in the first place.. the more accepted type of AVR programing is use of BASCOM microcontrolling programators im not familiar with this teensy thing nor programing in any way.And I still doubt you can interchange ICs just like that because the circuitry behaves different.For the Voutput it might be ok even if transistors are different types, the resistor in 3090 just regulates the right voltage values so the diode at output doesent get shortcircuited.You can also notice the difference at input of the regulator at pin 7 where at one type the pin7 is omitted and with other it has zener led diode etc.The pins 17 and 18 lead to the rotary switch (Wheel button), where at 3080 are grounded and with 3090 are not.. which leads to a conclusion that whell button will not be wired correctly and might not work properly etcetc.

http://postimg.org/image/x5lfjr7e5/

notice the different grounding in Vinput!?!?!?The rom flashing is just debatable thing..and im not sure i quite understand what youre trying to do.

The proto board is there cause the avr microcontroller, it's oscillator and a few smd resistors/capacitors(most are there to interface 3.3V sensor and 5V controller)

omitting the fact that for SMD soldering you need a special laboratory soldering device that only firms deal with it.. and asume you are capable of soldering to some extent these parts with that fat chunky soldering iron, I dont see on that crappy pic you provided any caps/resist on proto board.Only thing you can do with PROTO is WIRE other components.Oh and not to forget PROTO is only 1sided so I have no clue wtf u mean with the "bottom" part.All I see from the pic is the cheap pertinax board a proto and this thing on the right side that I am not able to indicate..

but lets proceed..

an op suggests custom switches.I cba looking for this crap at this poin as I couldnt care less about fantasies in your head so excuse for not providing "gaming grade" types.

http://it.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switch...mp;FS=True

http://www.overclock.net/t/1159652/new-zowie-am-mouse/80

what you need is a 3pin SPDT switch

then you need a rotary switch, avago suggests this:
http://it.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Encode...mp;FS=True

again you need a special mechanism to adjust this wheel button lets say you pick it up from an already existing mouse..

what you need for PCB is ofc a copper clad board I call it simply vitroplast:http://it.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemica...dgCaR14%3d

An "inexperienced" diyer cannot mix his own accid so the premixed bottle is needed http://it.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ferric+chloride

for obvious reasons its a restricted item, still u can buy them from other suppliers just look through web more closely and that addsup another shipment costs 20e+30-40e per bottle.

what else?need a cable,the small parts resist/caps to which u reffer as "dirt cheap",that led seems something special, probablly its a must to orded the one provided from avago as it has its own wavelength or rather buy the entire development kit(need lens too!),maybe a couple of connectors com1/com2... what else!?!?

So if we take all of this into account and round the approx. price, would u agree that costs would go in this direction?

30e Acid + 20e shippment
40/45e board+switches+kit+passive comp+cable +40-50e shippment as this is UPS or DHL method
40/50e for a perfectly functionating mouse as you need this certain shell.. probablly an avg. price? oh and ofc not to forget shippment or if picked localy :)
xx price for programator, it is not a must for some sensors.. altho for others it is, so its a 50-50% weather u really need it or not.

So to draw a line under all of this it is not an exaggeration to say such attempt would cost around 150e if not 200e.And god forbid that you fuck it up from the first shoot, because ure going to need to do another orders all over again.. and pay some more for that shippment LMAO!You think such specific components are stocked at your small local dealer, LOL!?Now that I think the costs are overall at 150e it is easier to just buy more material and exceed the 150e limit as I get the free delivery shipment in that case.What you fail to understand is that these stockists are not intended for smal end user but industry orientated, firms buy BIG quantities of components which is why the mouse itself is cheaper in the end.

heres a digikey calculation for a free delivery in my country 200$

http://s3.postimg.org/pw50fh2oz/digikey.jpg

Now I need to ask you again.. DO YOU STILL THINK ITS A CHEAP THING!?!?

I look forward to your uber open-coypce mauz pr0j3ct!! xDD

I don't really get what you are arguing with and trying to prove me... :D
I said that if the ready-to-use PCBs for different shells are ever gonna be sold they're not gonna be sold as a DIY kit, and neither made by me, but some factory. And the price is not gonna exceed 50$ even in the most worst case. But to be honest i don't really wanna put my time/money into that in the nearest future.
And I gonna make the project itself open so people can make and commit their own ideas and works. Some electronics enthusiasts could do their own mice in that case. And for those people 200$ you state is really exagerrated as i already said, in most cases you don't need anything apart from a dev board and a donor mouse for that really. :)

Op q:

why haven't any gaming hardware companies produced a PCB containing good switches (Omron of course) and a flawless, centred optical sensor (like the AVAGO ADNS 3090 for example)

h8m3

I said that if the ready-to-use PCBs

errrr care to explain whats the fucking point then, why bother!? :DD
ITS SPECIFICLY ASKED FOR "CUSTOM" COMPONENTS.. in translation it means I want to have some influence on the parts that PCB contains.What good does it make an already soldered PCB if I dislike the parts just as with original PCB!?!?Obv u dont even know wtf ure talking about.

ready-to-use PCBs for different shells are ever gonna be sold they're not gonna be sold as a DIY kit, and neither made by me, but some factory.

Running a production batch of PCBs!? :D
At large quantities its easier to just order a batch of custom mouse shells, much cheaper, maybe a plastic injection.

And I gonna make the project itself open so people can make and commit their own ideas and works. Some electronics enthusiasts could do their own mice in that case.

What open source are u babbling??The circuitry is provided by Avago and so are programing charts from the documentation.One person can assemble the thing if he indends to.. but I guess u expect others to make it for u, I see.

And yesterday I actually remembered what this SROM thing means to you.. its EPROM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM
Which is ridiculous, you still cannot convert one IC to another, you cannot convert adns3080 to 3090.All you can do is set the parameters to thic microcontroller yourself to specific sensor.This would in an actual example look like this

http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-sensor-list

I pick a mouse with adns3090 that has Accel enabled, come home and rewrite EPROM and disable the accel or use different dpi etc. you still cannot convert one IC to another LOL.

But to be honest i don't really wanna put my time/money into that in the nearest future.

YEEEAH bro, though so! ;))

uhm the op didnt ask for custom components... He asks for one PCB and multiple shells for that PCB. But nonetheless there's no point having few sensors other than the best current one tbh i.e. ADNS-3090. If some guy has some pixart based mouse like kinzu and loves it's shape there're still plenty of reasons to hate the mouse cause it has crap internals and desire for better PCB with proper sensor. Ofc it would have been nice to choose switches and encoders aswell but that would be hard to implement on such a rather small-scale production assuming there're already multiple PCB variants for different shells. I'm not saying that's impossible though, i.e manual switches soldering before the shipment.
The main thing i was saying to OP is that from a business perspective making a few PCBs(and it's the same circuit, just different layout to fit in different shells) for a few different mice which already are on the market is MUCH cheaper and easier than producing different shells for some PCB. Do you even know how much a single custom plastic injection mold costs? ;o And the op and customer would require quite a few of them. ;o Moreover it's hard to promise that you own shell would be better than something the customer already has and likes. Also it's just physically hard to design a universal PCB for any type of shell or some shell for a specific PCB. So a production batch of a few PCB variants would be a better way tbh.

An open project would mean endless possibilities to customize your mouse, a sensor itself is a minor thing which barely determines the mouse capatibilities. It's all about your mcu where ppl can implement various sensitivity/acceleration modulators with any movement curve they would like, whatever button/movement macros, infinite led lightning options, etc. I know a guy who made a true 20000dpi mouse by using the sensor snapshots and implementing his own DSP algorithm, why not gather all that stuff in one place? There're lots of open hardware projects like robots, quadrocopters, 3d printers, etc, why not make a mouse one? :D

as for adns-3080->3090 it has been done already, both ICs are physically identical and so are their electrical specifications, that 'different circuitry' from the scheme you wrote before are just general mouse design tips from avago including mcu.

EE design and controller isn't bad. Prefer sensor to 3050 ^^

feels like talking with an ape.. you dont make any sense.

Do you even know how much a single custom plastic injection mold costs?

Running a production batch of PCBs!? :D
At large quantities its easier to just order a batch of custom mouse shells, much cheaper, maybe a plastic injection.

Again MUCH MUCH cheaper and yeah I know youre going to reply yet again with some silly reply "blahblah now I said small quantities blabla".. ure in selfcontradiction.How can you order a small factory production batch!?You think you can negotiate with them?If you dont order a min. quantity NOBODY from the factory is even going to consider moving a finger for you.Ask that guy from Zowie at overclock what was the min. quantity of those "custom" switches they had to order from Omron.Or rather ask bst how much money did he already spend for his mouse while not even having a final production.How much money does he expect to spend more.Also he doesent have his own mouse mold but a random from factory.. in what kind of numbers will the first production run count!?!?You expect that someone is going to bother with 20,30,50 or 100 shitty pcbs u want to order from a factory :DDD !?!?I remember when Ei-NIS was still producing tubes.. the min. quantity for your "own" tube was 10k!!!But not to worry you can still order in these "smaller" quantities from locals that specificly develop pcbs, would have to gather the rest of the parts yourself.. the question is DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH DOES PCB PRODUCTION COST!?HOW MUCH DOES A FILM DEVELOPMENT ALONE FOR PCB COST!?

as for adns-3080->3090 it has been done already

Ok lets pretend hipoteticaly this is true.Why would Avago "release" the new sensor then in the first place, if they could simply "upgrade" the 3080 sensor throught the firmware and sell it to customers?Why dont they remove adns3080 from their products list as its obsolete, is it still in production?The firms buying out these sensors have their own development teams, wouldnt they know these are same sensors?Why not simply upgrade yourself then, afterall what you write in EPROM is your own intellectual property, no need to buy the more expencive model??

as for adns-3080->3090 it has been done already, both ICs are physically identical and so are their electrical specifications, that 'different circuitry' from the scheme you wrote before are just general mouse design tips from avago including mcu.

Your statement is like this.. as were in gaming related forum this is the best comparison

i7 920 = i7 975 both phisically same,both operate at same values, both are plugged into same sockets therefore both are same... :D

or if you came up to an audiophiler telling him that Ecc81,82 and 83 are all the same as they are "phisically" the same and pin compatible LOL...

Yes circuitry is so general that they specifficly need to address at the capacitors grounding distances!

MCU=MICROCONTROLLER eg. MEMORY WHERE YOU PUT YOUR OWN PROGRAM eg. EPROM.......................................................are you schooled idiot or were just born like that!?

http://it.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Avago-Tech...XZNHeO0%3d

knock yourself out, and do tell the final price in the end. :)

I played ETQW with the clit

Were you the commander? :>

I played QL without the clit (lost it somewhere).

how can it be ultra smooth shaffft if it clearly says "non-toxic" on the tube?

Oh god, haha.

I think the idea and product would appeal only to a very small and hardcore target audience. most people using 'pro gaming' equipment choose brands that are flash and well advertised. very few people who buy this actually make a very thorough investigation of what the product is and what they need.

Gaming mouse?

- Simple like WMO or Kinzu with better grip, and big version like 3.0
- 400/800/1600 dpi is sooo much enough for everything, but they need to be exatly that dpi, not like kinzu's 400 is like 560 in reality
- No acceleration at all! Maybe you can add negative or positive accel by drivers. But at default state, NO ACCELERATION
- Definitely should work flawless and perfect without drivers, Maybe it can have profiles and a small swtich under the mouse
- 500Hz and 1000hz is a must
- Nice quality chord
- Skatez can be like WMO (easy to replace and small)
- not much buttons, maks 4 like IMO 1.1
- Quality is not that important, look at WMO, its pieces are like shit, but it is cheap so people can but 5-6 at a time. So there must be a good optimization, so it wont cost 100bucks for 1 mouse
- NO laser! It MUST be optical mouse
- I dont know how will they solve this, but AGAIN like WMO, it should work on any surface.
- So much testing agasint jitter or shitty hardware problems
- Sensor should be at the center of the mouse, and should be easy to clean.

sounds like youre describing AM..

ive never tried, but its like my dream mouse. :)

or a wmo

definitely,
also I like mx518, but it has some problems(angle snapping and not symetric)

Hello, Zowie FK and Zowie EC1 eVo.

eviili said AM, so all of the zowie mouses?

Well, FK is more in between WMO and kinzu than what the zowie AM is.

despite not owning any of zowie mouses I doubt.. I have 1.1a and dback 1.6 at home and theire like day and night.Looking swiftly at dimensions from FK / dback 1.6 I guess theire quite similar especially for the V-shaped shell.The wmo feels bigger,bulkier and in overall uncomfortable, if youre used at v-shaped you need something smaller.For me personally AM=WMO,FK=dback 1.6 shapewise.I intend on buying one FK when some supplier turns up in my country..

Man... I would love to use the imo 1.1a with the zowie fk sensor :/