dont buy anything with intel gfx

You mean nothing that does not have a seperate graphicscard since all Laptops have integrated graphics nowadays.

I'd also like to avoid Intel GFX if possible but what's the problem with AMD APUs?

That Radeon HD6370M would be probably more than enough, I'm just concerned about the AMD E Series E1-1200 @ 1.4 GHz CPU. Not exactly a strong one and QL is quite CPU-dependent. : S

dont buy amd cpus, even best bulldozer is worst then worst i3 :D dont ask how, but amd totally fucked up.

Cos they are still using shitty architecture.

Basically, it goes like this...

Don't buy AMD for gaming, there is no need, as you can buy a cheap enough intel that will do a better job. You're right, they fare badly compared to INTEL in games.

For 3D rendering/threaded apps, the 8320 and 8350 are worth a look, but in all honesty, you're better off just buying a second hand i7 2600k instead. They should come down even more in the next few months.

Then you'll render a bit faster in threaded apps.
Save electric. (AMD is power hungry)
And still have a great gaming PC. (AMD falls way behind in games)

People should not feel insecure about buying second hand CPU's from intel. But if the games you play are old hat, and your mum pays your lecky, maybe AMD will do ok for you and you can go new.

I advise gamers on a budget to buy a second hand i5 2500k. (and over clock it)
For those wanting a workstation aswell, the i7 2600k.

(and those choices will be valid for at least 12-18 months from this post)

That's all people need to know....
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12365870/...or-fun.jpg

What a load of crap. Sure, high-end Intels are better than any Vishera (Bulldozer was the previous series) but you seem to forget that they cost a lot more too.
As for your statement that "the best Bulldozer is worse than the worst i3", I mean where the hell do you get your info? Random speculation or what?

My FX-8350 (that costs about 20-30$ less than Core i5 3750k) is absolutely on par with the i5.
So the problem with AMD is not mid-level CPU's, but rather the high-end ones which AMD simply don't offer at all.
The thing is, though, the new Ivy Bridge i7s are without competition but because of that they cost a shitload of money. I mean, 350$+ for just the CPU?

And finally, yes, Intel CPUs are better for gaming. But for heavily multithreaded tasks AMDs are absolutely great and, in some of these cases, they outperform MUCH more expensive Intels.

all i* processors are better then bulldozer :)

I know right? I mean, various benchmarks don't mean shit, if you say that all i* processors are better then I guess it must be The Truth.

sorry, but I've no idea what benchmarks you looked at.

seeing how you're serbian, you're probably imagining shit up in your head and trying to sell it as the truth. typical serbian mythology crap.

amd cpus are inferior to i series, live with it. and no, it's not world conspiring against you serbs, it's the truth, you should try accepting it here and there. can't live all of your life in lie.

Living with such complexes is hard, I know. Hence I ain't even mad, you can bash me for no reason other than being Serbian all you want but you won't offend me.

But please try and put in some valid arguments next time because such meaningless shit talk only makes you look like an ignorant butthurt poor fellow.

ahaha complexes. projectin shit 2k. i didn't even want to make you mad or offended, why would i do that? and why would you get mad or offended over truth?

i'm glad that you're a reasonable fellow, still, amd sucks.

K

You forget though that the AMDs use a lot more power, its true the 8350 is a good for threaded apps and not far behind the i72600k/3770k, but the power it uses is quite a bit more.

Power Consumption
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/11/06/amd-fx-8350-review/7

Factor in the gaming performance is a lot worse and over the period of time that you will have the system, the running costs will close the gap between the two and its not that smart a move in the long run.

The AMD makes sense if you do not pay the electric bills and do not have much money to start, but like I said, a second hand i7 system is on par with price for a new AMD 8350 (assuming no expensive mobos) so for me and will perform better and cost less to run.

You could of course get the 8320 and clock that as its virtually the same chip, but even then, for the sake of 20 quid you might aswell get the 50 as it will stay cooler and handle

Threaded perfromance
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/11/06/amd-fx-8350-review/3

Rofl

i specifically meant intel gfx cards cause they're shit when it comes to doin some 3d :>

my laptop has only nvidia gt230m ,and while it's a shit card, it's still miles better then any intel crap :D

Intel's HD 4000 owns that card. By miles. And is more than enough for QL. You're just prejudiced after years of Intel producing cards that could do geometry but choked on shaders. But they came to their senses and it's good now.

The problem of course is that the OP is only looking into hardware way below the acceptable level. And he sells a working PC just to put himself in that trouble. Painful to watch :(

Intel HD4000 is said to be quite good

But that's over the pinpointed price range, so it doesn't really matter. : /

myth. I have on-board Intel graphics and i run quake live 125 solid on any map in any situation. I only have intell core 2 quad and 4 gb ddr3

Quake live isn't demanding at all. These super rigs are a waste for anyone who only plays quake.
In-fact when i was unable to play on my pc my mrs netbook (1.2 ghz duel core 1 gb ram) played the game just fine. I wasn't getting 125 but it wasn't far off. Its nothing but snobbery saying you need this and need that for this game. You don't.

I get 125 fps on every map on my laptop. It had integrated intel hd3000 graphics. It is what I use now as I sold my gaming PC. It does its job. Not as smooth as my desktop was and I do notice some input lag compared, but it works

What do you mean by "not as smooth" and "input lag"? You mean the display itself or some other issues?

I'm not really sure. It just does not feel as smooth as when I played on my desktop even though I still get the same 125FPS.

Have you tried it with proper external display?

Yeah I only play at home hooked via VGA to a Acer H233? display

HP Pavilion g6-2300sg

Found this one here, it has an Intel i3-3120M CPU (2x2.5 Ghz), an ATI Radeon HD 7670M GPU with 2GB memory and 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM. Don't know whether you can find this model in your country but on this site it costs 399€ which would translate into ~523 USD, ye it's a bit over your budget but saving up a bit would solve the problem wouldn't it? Tbh. I don't know how good HP notebooks in general and this one in particular are.

VGA, HDMI doesn't support 120hz LCD's , if you will use external one. HDMI or mini/displayport.

I'll use an external monitor (CRT) 90 % of the time.

I've always had positive experiences with Dell. The Inspiron 15 series starts at 299€ so you could still "upgrade" certain important parts if you want and bring it up to ~450$. It has Intel HD4000 graphics though, but your budget isn't lenient. The Inspiron 15R with AMD graphics cards start at 650€.

Why don't you look into a BTO laptop?
I can't seem to change the language of the site, but check here for laptops that are <600€:
http://www.bto.eu/html/list.asp?q=80&lang...artnerID=1

Never heard of BTO. : S

Tbh, I want proved quality and reliability (hence mainly the Lenovo, Toshiba and Fujitsu) as I don't want to spend money on PC stuff (except extra HDDs) in the next 5 years or so.

BTO notebooks are "built to order" as far as I know and they are very often recommended in this here parts. I have looked a little bit more into this website and I think they only service The Netherlands (and Flemish Belgium) judging by some consumer logo's and the site language. I mentioned them because of their customization options on the site.

dont u need dual dvi support to run a laptop with 120hz? i remember at the msi beat it finals at dreamhack they used these msi gaming laptops which ran QL really nicely with 120hz.

My monitor (and therefore gpu) needs dual-link dvi for 120hz. Newer HDMI standards might be able to do 120hz though?

1) no, e1200 is a netbook cpu, too weak
2) no, cpu is ok but gpu sux
find something with dual core 2Ghz+CPU and with discrete gpu gt630/640 or amd HD4570 and higher (also google amd trinity)

well, i can report a amd 3200+ with gets fx5200 125fps stable on all maps EXCEPT quarentine, asylum etc, now, is that cpu or gfx Dependant maps?

quake3/ql is more cpu-loading app than gpu. U can watch urself the reason of unstable fps - just watch CPU-loading graphs in TaskManager and GPU-loading graphs in any GPU-monitoring app while u playin. 99% load = not enough performance

ye, i know, but fx5200 IS pretty bad, I mean really bad intel gfx bad. And it's only on new "fog" maps that has unstable fps, which leads me to believe it could be gpu related.

it was just to give i pointer for someone who might be interested to know "minimum" requirements(not enough obv. but almost)

I updated the op with 2 used machines. What do you guys think?

TBH that used Acer somehow looks the best... just pop more RAM in. Best CPU out of the 4.

Retina MacBook 13" or 15"

For 450 $, right?

The acers are powerful, but stay away- they all tends to badly overheat, halfening their power and decreasing their life lenght

Even with laptop coolers? Maybe a custom one?

This bussiness HP is pretty hot either.

Btw I'm planning on using it 8-12+ hours per day.

Yes, unfortunately; laptop coolers doesn't cool more than 5-10 C, 10 C at the very best, maximum velocity (=noise), well lifted, etc.; and we are talking about 70-80-90 Celsius, under his maximum usage with heavy games;
The problem is the embarassengly stupid internal cooling system, if it isn't changed on new acers it is based on a single heatpipe for the two cores, and another one for the vga, that makes a 15-20 cm travel to the radiator and the fan;
and the general problem with laptops is that they quickly tend to cover the radiator in a dust layer, with a significative loss in the air output and so a discrete increase in temperatures; so, you'll have to open it and clean at least every 2-3 months.
The number of daily hour usage isn't really relevant, since the decrease rapidly to the idle level after having quitted the 3d application; and i doubt you'll play 8-12 hours at day (i hope :) ).

Well, not playing thru the whole 8-12+ hours ofc, but the rig would be on.

How about making a custom cooler with 3 12 cm fans?

I understood it's on, but it doesn't matter because in idle it is nowere near to the power usage he reaches under heavy applications; browsing ad with an antivirus it shouldn't go over 35-40-45 C;.
Using an overpowered cooler woudln't change much, since the external openings for the air on the laptop are generally tiny, it would help more to open new holes in the plastic case (not joking).
And still, if the radiator is clogged with dust, the external cooler won't be able to increase the air flux.

dust increases the thermal resistance of your dissipator: even if you manage to increase the air flux, you can't transfer enough heat.

I would advice you not to rush and save some more money and buy a good laptop.

Don't be "too cheap"

If you add +30$ then +30$, there's always a better choice. You should draw the line somewhere, and if I have to return this lent laptop, I need a PC ASAP. : /

have you ever bought a cheap laptop before?

Never bought a laptop before, I always had desktop rigs in the last 18 years.

there's usually compromises when laptops are that cheap. it might be build quality, short battery life (typical), keyboard, trackpad (always crap), screen (usually crap), heat, or specs.

considering non-gaming usage, i'd save up and buy something decent. but maybe you won't have any issues while gaming, since you're going to attach that crt and probably a keyboard and a mouse.

Battery life, trackpad, even the screen doesn't really matter.

Build quality, reliability and cooling does tho.

Get a business laptop then. They are made to please IT staff instead of gimmicks for clueless consumers.
Usually.

I've been using a business HP laptop for over 5 years (not only on desk but carrying it with me a lot) and never had any problem with it. Meanwhile my friends need to buy new consumer-grade laptop every 2-3 years because they basically fall apart.

agree, "envy" hp laptop since 2005 (2006?).

I play on a lenovo Ideapad with intel integrated shit and the game runs great.

How do you become a casual player in Quake? Buy a laptop!

If I use external display and input devices, while the game itself running stable 125 fps, I don't think that there's any connection bewteen a laptop and casuality.

Then give me a call and I will build you a tech station which is basically that, a portable laptop! All the advantages and non of the disadvantages.
http://i.imgur.com/ErEq9YC.jpg
Seriously, do you move around that much to need a laptop on the go? A 5 year old high spec desktop is better than any top of the range laptop from the shop.

I don't move around that much, I'd use it as a desktop machine most of the time.
However, I traded with used desktop parts for 5 years and I'm fed up with that. There's always a gimmick. I don't change my rig in every two weeks or month, like before, so I want something steady. When I plug it in and hit the power button, I want a working computer.

"A 5 year old high spec desktop"

The keyword is "5 year old". I don't want 5 year old stuff for my personal use again, because they tend to break down and develop strange problems with time and I don't want to grab a screwdriver again and again. I did that too much in the past years.

A laptop is clean, simple, even portable, and if runs QL steady 125 fps and can play any 1080p Blu-ray rip, no matter the bitrates, the performance is just fine for me.

I don't understand how after 5 years of trading desktop parts you came to the conclusion that a laptop is more reliable than desktop. You know very well the only upgradeable part will be memory and hard disk. And if It all packs up tomorrow cremation in the oven is your only resurrection hope. With a desktop, yeah sure you will have to touch a screw driver again, but every part is replaceable, compatible and inexpensive. 6 months later the laptop you buy will be outdated, 12 months later it will most likely struggle hardware wise, 24 months it will be already broken because the motherboard is dead and not to mention the chance of finding a replacing part for that model on ebay is 1:1000000 since a) nobody will happen to have second hand spares for that model at the time b) the manufacture would have moved onto a newer model so they will no longer hold stock of replacing parts, which is just a scheme to force you to buy the next model. And you would've anyway after they told you how much the parts will cost.

I guess my 15 years of experience have thought me well. Right now you can build a 2009 pc for less than 200 euros that will play latest games. Parts that consist of Q6600, P5Q, 8800GT, 600W PSU, Thermalright coolers, WD RE2 500GB, 4-8GB RAM, Audigy (2,3,4), and even throw a decent case somewhere along. As for reliability I never had problems with overclocking, it either works or it doesn't. I think what you are most referring to is Windows not working “at the press of a button” which is entirely different issue whether it's laptop or a desktop.

Also you said you don't change your rig as often as you use to anymore but you are moving to a laptop, which means you gonna have to because its part of the ownership. Don't get me wrong I do have old laptops around that are still functioning but god forbid I fire it up for any reason it will struggle to open anything HTML5, 5 or more tabs, VLC with hardware acceleration, or even high resolution images from my camera to view in very fast order.

I'm using my laptop for almost over a year now (quite a lot!) and it works like a charm. Sure, it is not a desktop replacement but it has so many advantages I don't wanna miss anymore.

I came to this conclusion after 18 years of experience, 5 years of trading and owning countless rigs.

I want something that works, not other ppl's junk. I won't upgrade in the next 5 years or so. Why should I?
Heck, I even turn off aero bs and such in Win7. Old, plain Win2000-look is the best.
When the time comes when I can't play QL and HD video on a Core 2 T-class CPU with 4 GB RAM, the world is fucked already.

Not Windows not working, the rig itself. And you can't pinpoint the flaw. I worked in a computer-repair shop, so I have the knowledge to define many-many faulty stuff and even have a ton of components for testing at home or in a 10 mins of walking distance. Nothing works. Even the largest tech-based hungarian forum couldn't help me. So I had enough. This time, for good.

I don't play latest games, only QL and DOSBox or other 10-15 years old stuff sometimes.

8800 GT is G92, which is good and cheap, but for this, it's an overkill, and the GPU is one the worst regarding reliability. I got three G92 GPU card already (8800 GT, 9800 GTX, GTS 250), each one of them gone bad. RAM-errors, GPU melt due to overheating, even when decent cooler was applied.

Q6600 consumes a lot of power, unnecessary for 1080p and QL while it's still not exactly cheap and produces serious amounts of heat during heavy load.
A 600 W PSU is truly a waste of money for this kind of a rig. When I had my Abit AW8-MAX rig a few years ago, it had an Intel D965 EE(!) (130W TDP), 4 sticks of RAM, GeForce 8800 GT, 2 HDDs and an ODD, the FSP 350PNF did the job just perfectly.

I already have a Gigabyte PSU with FSP internals, 3 TBs of HDDs + SSD and an Audigy for the Pentium III Tualatin fileserver I'm building - the rest of my desktop rig will be sold.

VLC was good in the DVD-era, but nowadays, it's just bad. Shitty realtime subtitle rendering, problems with high bitrate FLAC audio and ordered chapters, high CPU-load, without external stuff, 10 bit playback is very bad, not to mention that the hardware acceleration is slow.
I'm an anime collector, got 2,6 TBs already. Not much, but there's recession here, I can't buy new 2 TB HDDs in every second month. But still, you can imagine how various encodes resides in the depths of my HDDs. From 320 x 200 *.mpegs thru 640 x 480 DivX *.avis, up to 12000 kbps 10 bit 1080p *.mkvs with FLAC audio.
I needed an universal tool without any shady and unnecessary codec packs. KMPlayer + CoreAVC Professional is the way to go - I came to this conclusion after 6 months of experimenting with players and codecs and reading into the topic a bit. This plays everything, with mild CPU-load.

This lent laptop I'm using now (HP nx9420, specs in the op) is fine with 3 browsers opened simultaneously with 40 tabs, while running Skype, Vuze, 5 IrfanViews, 2 text documents and a Format Factory converting *.jpgs with one thread.

Casual and competitive is about mindset not hw.
There are ppl who can do extremely well in non optimal conditions because they try to play their best with what they've got.

Premium would certainly be the best choice.

HUGE respect for !nFerNo.

He don't even know me, we never played together before, I didn't ask for it, but he sent me 50 EUR via PayPal to raise my budget a little.
Quakers United. Man, that made me emotional a little bit. ;___;

Thank you again, dude, you are truly awesome.

You said you were strapped for cash so I wanted to bump your budget a little. I hope it allows you to buy what you want.

Where's Teen Queen and "Welcome to ESR" now :)

Welcome to ESR feget

ohhh whew! back to reality 0)))

All is fine cus I have cigar smock 8)))

People...helping people? What is this sorcery?

always: intel + nvidia

never: amd + ati

I have the exact opposite experience. : D

anyone know a good laptop with dvi so I can play with 120hz on external screen? price range around 650 - 750.