zowie makes the best palm mice these days probably although theyre microsoft shaped.

They look decent, what makes them the best? I use a finger grip with fairly large hands so these look pretty much the ideal shape having used MS mice before.

build quality is better than any other company i believe and they use good sensors

I got the mouse this evening, Zowie Evo EC2, it feels great so far.

Seems like I am too late to recommend the Xornet. The sensor is perfect and the rubber sides are still good as new after 1½ years.
My EC2 died really quickly; first the LMB/RMB starts dropping inputs just like the DeathAdder and one day it just suddenly died altogether.

That doesn't look like a good shape for finger-mousing.

It's actually designed for claw/fingertip grip, since it has such a short body.

if you are mid-high sens it's ok.
negative accel kicks in quite soon.

V75 on a razer goliathus mousepad handles the craziest 20cm flicks without skipping

AFAIR, i really loved the shape, but the sensor (A3050) is entry-level and its tracking depends a lot on the pad (bad on artisan, taito and qck heavy).
i found 1000 and 2000cpi settings to be completely jerky and LOD quite high.
iirc, malfunction speed was <1 m/s @500cpi and the sensor cunts showed 50Hz noise spikes.

have to bring it up again and check firmware version, tho. thanks for the tip.

if you're used to mx500 just get a g400s

Has the G400 been updated? IIRC I didn't like the braided cable and it freaked out way too easily on fast movements.

The g400 never had braided cable. Granted the PVC one that is currently used in mx5xx series isn't the best and tends to be one of the drawbacks, but logi will replace it for you free of charge if that happens.

Perhaps I am thinking of the G500 then, which ever it was I had a laser Logitech with a braided cable. I don't really want to revisit that shape though as the thumb cleft doesn't suit my finger mousing style all that well.

You're thinking about g500 :)

g400 is lighter and has a much better sensor.
g500 sensor isn't positioned correctly, has acceleration issues etc.

Logi shape is usually suited for right-handed users, even amongst those there's a lot of people who generally dislike it.

I've used the MX500, MX518 and G500 so I'm quite used to the shape, the problem is the thumb cleft seems to be designed to lay your thumb along the side of the mouse, in my hand the tip of my thumb fits into the end of the cleft with the joint at a 90 degree angle which makes the thumb joint sore after a gaming session, if I try to fit my thumb along it my fingers go off the end of the mouse.

A lot of popular modern mice (among ESR/OCN) would qualify as "best" - it basically comes down to what you're looking for.

Someone who's into ambidextrous shape wouldn't really like wmo, someone who doesn't want to spend 70€ on a mouse probably shouldn't get a zowie, someone who's used or prefers heavy claw grip shouldn't get a g400, someone who plays with really low sens should stay away from IE 3.0

That doesn't mean the aforementioned mice aren't "best"


I'm going to steal this from OCN

1. What's your grip style?

2. What's your sensitivity?

3. What's your maximum budget?

4. Do you want additional buttons?

5. What games do you play?

6. Do you mind about prediction?

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


but if you want to skip this part, just go with my recommendation:


Logi g400(s)/g100
Zowie AM/FK/EC
Razer DA
MS IE 3.0/WMO
SS Kana

1. Finger, but large enough hands that big mice are fine.
2. Fairly low.
3. Not a concern.
4. No.
5. Everything.
6. Yes.
7. LOD? Don't need an ambidextrous shape, lighter weight preferred, non-braided required, don't care about finish though probably rubbery preferred, is button activation force an issue?, not bothered about drivers or driverless, not bothered about onboard memory.

I've used the G400 before and do not want it unless it has been updated in the last couple of years. The Zowie Evo EC1 and EC2 look very interesting. I've had a Razer DA and it was reasonable. I've had an MS IE 3.0 before and it was very good, are they still available?

Was going to suggest the ec1/2 as you can pick the size and I think the finish(black=rubber, white=glossy? someone correct me if I'm wrong). LOD=lift off distance. Zowie's is quite low as are all the old mice(I think it's a problem that spawned along with the higher DPI) which you seem used to. And even if they still made the IE3 I think you'd hit the negative accel part with your sens easily. Zowie EC1=IE3 shape from what I've read here.

I've never had an issue with LOD with any mouse I've had. As long as it doesn't think it has lifted off when moved quickly normally and stops reading quickly when picked up it's fine. Do you know if the Evo mice are sensitive to fast movements with their LOD? The black EC2 seems like the ideal mouse from what I've looked at so far. Negative sens is a big issue for me as I tend to move mice very quickly.

What do you mean by sensitive to fast movements with LOD? Are you saying you lift the mouse off the pad when doing them? I don't own a zowie, all I know is some people said their LOD is too low and I was like "how is that ever a problem?". Oh and have you heard of bst's mouse?

When you move a mouse quickly it can get a little tilted, depending on the design of the mouse. One of the idiot laser Razor mice I had was always in danger of tipping over. This may not be an issue with the Zowie's design, basically I want to know if the LOD has ever been an issue for anyone under normal use, I have never seen LOD as an issue with any mouse I've used previously so am wondering what the issues are.

I haven't heard of bst's mouse, got a link?

Hmm, I think tilting might be an issue if you claw a mouse designed for palm grip as your thumb should have more leverage than your pinky/ring finger. Then again if what you described happened on a V-shape mouse like the diamondback and not on the mx500 it might not be.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...velopment/ here's bst's mouse, he said release date should be August 1st +/-15 days.

Cheers for the link, I think I'll go with the Zowie EC2 in black as I want to get the mouse now. And yeah, the tipping was with a V-shaped mouse so I doubt it will be an issue with the Zowie.

I can recommend the EC2 Evo, I had it since almost 2 months now and have never been happier with any other mouse. Previously I used IE3/MX500/Deathadder.

IE 3.0 are scarce but available, if budget really isn't your concern go with it - you won't find many of them and there's a chance of getting a fake one.

probably best to buy the one signed by Bel Betts, the man behind mecrosoft™ (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bill-Gates-Autographe...257e7f9d97)

Otherwise try this

1

if you're not feeling adventurous you can get an unopened boxed version but the price is very very steep

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Intellimous...3f11acb69c


Basically there's a shitton of IE 3.0 on ebay.

There's some on amazon as well, used, new and refurbished.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000GO...amp;sr=8-2


Oh, steer clear from any IE with custom shell - those are usually fakes.

Oh hey, turning back to gaming?

Hey funnyb, yeah might do a little bit, I'm planning on getting a gaming PC soon. Probably more casual stuff though as I'm far too out of practice with Quake to try to get back in to it and don't have much free time.

There's always sc2, actually really fun!

I'll have to give it a try with a computer that can run it. It didn't really grab me compared to no.1 for some reason, combat didn't seem quite right and it was a mess visually compared to SC:BW but that may have changed as it has developed.

KinzuAdder ^^

..is the best mouse I've used so far.

Wish mine hadn't have died. I still entertain the idea of fixing it but I've been busy lately.

I got mine like a week ago! and I am reaaaaalllyyy happy, it was really expensive actually but, I dont know how, I used same wmo for 4years, before it, I had diamondback, and they both still work. So I am sure that this one also will not die :)

Yeah I mean, I have a kinzu v2, and I find not as good as the kinzuadder.

It seems like the kinzuadder was lighter, and had better weight distribution. The latter is kind of mysterious since it's not like the sensor is in a different place.

woww actually yhe most important part is the sensor! :D
If I was able, I would have changed WMO's sensor with DA, but I couldnt :) it doesnt fit inside :(

Or the Big Brother/Sister whatever: link :>

come play some cpm ix

I don't have the skills nor the time any more sadly. =(

Just play a couple of NTF/TDM pickups, everyone's bad anyway :)

Shameless self-promotion: http://esreality.com/post/2424896/logitech-mx500-s-for-sale/

Also: Hit me up if you want to play some SC:BW sometime; my PvZ is lacking and I still want revenge for all those games I lost years ago. ;)

You'd massacre me with ease no doubt. =) I haven't touched any game beyond mobile phone stuff in years. I will be gaming a bit more soon probably though so we can give it a go. SC2 kinda killed the fun of SC:BW as there weren't enough players any more.