Didn't CZM do this with the original layout of DM6?

OK - before I start... I'm not 'having a go' it seems from this that you still enjoy the oldskool maps.. well so do I.

I think there should always be an oldskool map in the map-pool for competitions. As much as I appreciate the new maps - there's just something fundamentally 'Quake' about the original maps and I enjoy these maps being played over the new ones. For some reason they just have something the others don't... a history perhaps.

So for that reason.. please leave them alone!
Every week on ESR someone is posting 'Lets have new sounds' - 'Let's have new icons' 'Let's change this' - 'Let's change that'...

Well here's a new one... 'Let's not' - 'Let's leave it alone!'
I for one don't want new icons, new sounds, new weapons, new layouts.
Please can we just leave it alone!?

Quake works because it's Quake! Sometimes some things just come together, sometimes some things just fall into place and for some reason 'they just work'...

Quake/Quake III is a beautiful example of this. The engine, the movement, the weapon set, the characters, the 'feel'. The game is 14 years old and in my opinion - it's untouchable!
It's been copied, cloned, used, modded and attempts to supercede it, even by id have failed. They can't recreate it.

Just leave it... stop tinkering!

I've used this analogy many times - I remember using it on stream during a lan (I'm sure it was a Dreamhack when Rapha was in a Q&A) and I was pleased to hear MomentoMori use the same argument on a recent Faceit Sunday Cup.

I said "Tennis, chess, snooker even football - these don't change" (just amendments to the rules in some cases) but its the same board, playing-field, pitch, whatever. they still draw massive crowds and they go to see the competition - the 'duel' between the players.
Why do we feel the need to constantly tinker and change... human's do that all over with things.

Well - I'll tell you something... tinker with it - it'll only break it.
It NEVER makes things better.

Yes at the start, the conception - of course - iron out the problems. Beta-Test. Bed it in and get it working.
Not after this amount of time though. Just leave it.

Look at the problems Yellack has had with his map 'Sinister' recently. A lovely looking map and a whole lot of work - but it just wouldn't sit right - he's struggled to please people.
Moving items and weapons is SO important to gameplay.

We are so lucky in our game that we can have new maps - we can add them whenever and play them - great! and these new maps will take sometime to bed in. I'm still not comfortable with Furious Heights :o) but I for one never get sick of the old ones... how can you? Rest them - yes... but leave them alone please.

Now I know I'm one of the older generation playing this game - I've been there from the start and to the younger players these maps and the whole game are 'old' so maybe that has a lot to do with it... but I have no understanding of this need for change.

like I say - that's 'my' opinion
peace :o)

Sinister is much better than it was. No stupid 1 min rail, extra teleporter, a bit of layout change. All are for the better. I just miss the hiding place behind the bulletin board.

nope

okey

dude I didnt promote any changes - just wanted to hear other opinions :D

No Problem snezz
as I said at the start "I wasn't having a go"

I just took my chance to have a bit of a rant as I was the 1st poster and thought it may be read by more people because of that.

None of it was aimed at you directly :o)

wolf13, as i see it change is needed. quake 3 died after 2006. public servers were really empty. changing things helps to get the game fresh. to leave things as they are is an error imo.

i think the oldschool maps work because they are tradition now. they are not as good as we think, we only like them because we played them so much and know every little detail.

Which version of DM6 would that be then?

As far as I know CZM made suggestions on improving gameplay & was involved in shuffling the items and weapons from the original 'out of the box DM6' to their now well known positions giving us pro-DM6...

what he suggested exactly I'd need to look up - it was a fair while ago.
Maybe that's a question for DDK :o)


All I'm saying is - the tweaking has already been done

hmmm the pro-dm6 could be... not sure about that one.

yeah - I'm willing to be corrected.
I'm sure I heard DDK (or someone?) mention it fairly recently though.

I would like to see brand new ztn. ColdIce sweet blue style like cpm3a or maybe even ztn3dm2.

Dismemberment with ZTN textures.

t7 with ztn textures
t4 with hub textures
dm6 with ztn/hub textures!

I wonder if an exact mirror of existing maps would fuck with anyone's brain a lot., Like, if you're facing the MH in ztn, the LG would be on the right and YA to the left, etc.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2257337/more-mirrored-maps/