tornado \o/

sharknado!

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get 3 belgian mates, signup, attend

WOOSH, you just increased the number of teams with the power of magic

yes ! get dem0n and MALAKA

I work on fridays & sundays, otherwise I would seriously think about going. Not to play that is, only to spec.

I've heard that dem0n is looking for a team :)

Really good map pool!

Most signed up teams are proper active (or mixes of very active players), so this is the best setup to make a pool like that.

I thought the veterans would complain about concentration of new maps, but noctis is suspiciously happy. What am I missing? ;)

Prizemoney?

depends on the donations I guess

Considering I don't know how many teams will actually pay and show up and there might be some more donations, I can't tell right now.

This is not quakecon, so if you are interested in money then the lan is probably not for you.

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team mini participating \o/

gogo girlz rape them all!

Comeon guys, sign up !!! this is gonna be huge, this is good oportunity to see great players like noctis, latrommi, krysa etc etc.. and drink some beers with them ! Center of the Europe -- Prague !!, TDM event, great venue !! Its not just about the tournament its social event aswell so get your fucking ass there its not so expensive prague is very cheap.., maybe there wont be such an event like this anymore !! I wanna see all the TDM players there.

Iam looking at you Zyrinx,winz,linkin,phoenix, purri, spartie etc.. etc !!
and somebody bring more germans and poles omg !
jilbort !! Av3k !! guys you can make it in 5 hours even on the bike !!

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wish i could attend, alas time and funds don't allow, so i hope coverage will be of a decent standard.

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And you forgot about all the nudey-bars and party places in Prague....and ofc their beatifull historic monuments etc. :)

Prague is very coooooooool!

With the map pool release, #tdmpickup map pool was updated.

Now it's the Prague pool + Hidden Fortress ;)

Ahh i just noticed no Hidden Fortress, damn.

ye ... tornado is back ... hope it doesn't flop

Any coverage yet?

Im gonna cheer for you Lars! :)

Still looking for german friends to attend this event. Join #sauer on ze QuakeNET irc to communicate.

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Are there any plans for live streaming this event?

Yes.. but nothing worth mentioning yet.

is it fine if I come as a spec and donate on site?

Maybe we can help wision admining too if we dont find teams..

gladly

I'm thinking about going to film and/or do some interviews, might that be something you'd be interested in helping me out with?

As mentioned in the news.. yes :)

cool. I'm just a moron like that l3l

edit: wait, I'm not:] on site like in the cafe after arrival not on website:]

I wish I lived in europe

What monitors?

The cafe has EIZO FORIS FS2333 (some gaming 75Hz screen).. but we're trying to get players to bring their own, so official games will be played on 120Hz.

If anyone is able to bring 120Hz monitor, please let me know.

I'll bring one. I'd bring two if the mappool weren't a semi-joke.

Sorry to disappoint you.

You'd suggest?

Arcane Citadel is questionably good, Tornado has had its chance and never caught on, Hidden Fortress is one of a kind in QL tdm in terms of the pace of play and is by far the most popular.

Sure if you like no teamplay and cessing for 20 mins

Let's say I agree with your premise (I don't.).

If the community still wants a cess map for idiots, it isn't quite crazy to say that in a 7-mappool one of such kind could possibly find its place.

As much as I love Hidden Fortress, I can see how including it means less play of the new maps. And I'm all for giving the new maps a fair chance to be played.

just like tornado.. so tornado or dm20.. And tbh tornado didn't work

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Tornado was never given a real chance imho. Most teams never bothered to practice it and once they had to play it against one of the few teams that did, they lost big time and decided to hate it/be done with it.

It was also not given much of a chance in pickups since pickup players seem to dislike double powerup maps.

Hidden Fortress on the other hand is only in the position its in right now because it was added when people were desperate for new maps. If tornado would have been added back then instead of hidden fortress it would probably be one of the most popular maps now as well (and nobody would have bothered to even try hidden fortress if it was added today).

You're absolutely right, Hidden Fortress is a rare gem that we were really lucky to discover!

Right, that's what i meant.

Laughed my ass off, nice sarcasm :D

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I'd agree but Purga was picked up quite fast on pickups. Tornado didn't because it's flow is a bit trickier to understand and to counter.

I dislike some aspects of tornado and like others. It should get a fair chance, but as long as there are teams that know it and teams that don't want to know it, beating on the map will ensue.

your fault as well tbh. You destroyed everyone and made them dislike the map :)

:'(

Tornado was never given a real chance imho

lol'ed, that map had a chance, and almost no one, except u and mb couple of other players liked that map. Simple question, why this map isnt picked? cuz no one likes to play it, thats it. You can find some excuses, but they are not viable, if no one likes the map, it wont be played, just like terminus (much more fucked up map, comparing to Tornado) and frs, no one was playing it, except his team. So you can put this map in the map pools even 100 times, no one will play it anyways, Prague Lan will show it. Why dm20 provided so much awesome games, was and still picked so much? i dont think thats only cuz it was added back in the days, when ppl were desperate for new maps, now we have a lot of maps, and many ppl still playing dm20.

when was it played apart from the nations cup?

Think it was defaulted some EC/OC ago ... but then got voted out or something ...amybe it was pickable on HOQ ... don't know now ....
As for rest of stats ... maybe there are some on qlstats .... would be fun to check out.

check chubz answer

Even if we accept this, I think you'll agree that giving an unproven map a second chance would be better suited for an online league or a cup, not a LAN which takes place roughly once every 2 years.

I think it's a bit like bringing dismemberment into the dreamhack winter pool, although tornado can't even boast of being a former classic so a better case could be made for dismemberment.

yo wision add me to lemmings squad ... We're dealing in logistics but should cover ourselves soon.

Are there gonna be some monitors secured for us that won't be able to tug ours to the lan ...
can't really go around with a crt that brakes the weight limit for luggage :)

btw no brits?

If players manage to bring enough monitors, then I'll make sure that all official games will be played on 120Hz monitors (people will have to switch).. of course you are free to play on stock monitors as well.

cool, thanks for the info ...

i hear they have good beer in czech-land and i don't have shit to do yet that weekend. mhh.

get a team going!

do it

Do it!

Didn't people agree that arcane needs some kind of fix though?

Either remove one pu, add weapons or something :(

It's no fun playing GL vs PG vs MG all day

why isn't GC signed up already!

nons dodge

ins?:X

lmao :X

haha

good point...

suprised with removing dm20 and picking system for home maps...
preparing to see a lot of matches on home maps like arcane cidatel and tornado...

whats arcane?

i would have come, but now i see the maplist i got my doubts, cba with shitornado, and learning 2 new maps?

Draven you suck. Just Come and spectate Then and have some beers with me :)

and learning 2 new maps?

Oh, the horror!

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qq

Thought you retired? :)

Then again; atleast you are honest, people dont like maps solely based on either how the maps fit their playing style, or how experienced they are on the particular map.

People attending saying "this map sucks because of this and that only say it based on their chances of winning that map vs other teams). If we wanted to win we would fight for dm7+dm6+dm14+osp6+osp5 :)

Give the new maps a chance, and whoever practices wins, simple :)

++++++++++++ tybalt

i am not retired, like i wasnt at last dreamhack or last androits, i came and practiced limbus for androits, which was a good map, it got some changes now concering quad area so it might be a better map now, ive practiced tornado too is just a random map with a proper campfest, i dont know how to other maps play so cant have a opinion one those but tornado is just dull dull dull

ps i dont play quakelive online cause i just have a proper internet connection for that shit too, i ping like 40ms to NL which is just too gay

Dont get me wrong, its not a stab at you in anyway; just the whole thought process of all quakers.

Why do you hate short people so much?

YOU AINT BIGGER BIAATCH :D

40ms is perfectly playeble.

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this man speaks fluent dravenish

Go for the fun, beers and Spar1e!
Hint: part1e!

Tornado has been tried to be pushed into russian tdm pickup several times by several people always voting it(it has almost been played the same amount of times as on tdmpickup which has over 4 times more matches played overall) and noone really liked it up to the point it was majorly voted to be removed from the pool. Comparing it to maps like Limbus, Terminatria and other new maps is laughable cause those were picked up immidiately. Im not saying that pickup is really the same as competitive TDM, but there's much less enjoyment of playing Tornado. Architecture is shit for fighting, several areas like RA are terrible, 3 secs to run between two PUs is laughable and in case of slight delay makes the map complete shifest, etc.
Also pick, pick in 7 map pool, really???????????????? Is playing dm14 five times in a row cause you can only play one map or being forced to play some new map one of your oldschool teammates doesnt know fun? To be honest quakelive is the ONLY team game with pick, pick in 7 maps pool system ever being used on tournaments. Never understood the reasoning of people pushing it into ql cups.. 'Oh we suck and can only play one map so let us win something'. QL is already random enough, why make it even worse. I know a few old guys who considered going but were not going to prepare for it and learn ALL the new maps. Don't call this lan a fun lan anymore. Don't think impulse7 will now concider going neither I will be able to gather more guys for a 2nd russian team, sigh.. :(

And I'm not even talking about most played TDM map being removed from the pool...

do it on lan

Meh. Was looking to form a team and probably still am but the maplist is really demotivating. Arcane Citadel has nothing going for it except being new. I honestly don't think I've ever been more bored playing quake than the times I've played that map. There is a massive lack of proper weapons and its very slow so most fights are plasma/gl vs sg/mg. Add to that non-stop camping + PU runs that get you 4 frags in the best case...

It's quite lame to remove popular maps based on personal preference aswell. Almost every practise we play we end up playing something out of purga, dreadful, hidden, limbus, terminatria and occationally dm14, because people enjoy playing those maps. There isn't a particular exigency to add more new maps to the pool seeing as purga, dreadful and hidden all started being played in ql, limbus is a bit over a year old and terminatria is new to most and has barely been played in any tournaments yet.

With a 7-map pool and pick pick all teams basicly have to practise all the maps if they want to compete. I really don't see why you would set it up that way as it will scare away a bunch of potential teams. You should really use a standard mappool because many more of the less active players will be inclined to go and it will be a tougher competition and a more enjoyable tournament.

Arcane could need some proper Clan-/Team-play and some thoughts how/where to use the main weapons instead of running around in ffa style.
PU run with 4 frags on such a small map? I have no prove, but I highly doubt that.

Yes I can tell it's supposed to be tactical and strategic and all. But it's quake. The fun part about quake is the speed, the weapon combos, the fragruns, the pixel shots. Not fun is grenade and plasma spam, corner rockets, mg cess. Which is pretty much all your map is about. It feels like playing cs. I'm sure a map can be tactical while still allowing you to move around it quickly and creatively and have more weapons.

"The fun part about quake is the rail."

There you go.

gda pls

Is anyone at all happy with the pool?

disclaimer: i had nothing to do with the pool other than being one of a few ppl that wision asked for their opinion

pool seems ok :) imo if dm20 was it ppl would be more or less happy just seeing such a popular map withdrawn is why i think ppl are complaining more than anything else

All mappool whiners are clearly dirty cheaters.

do it on lan bitches!!!!1

(edit: I have played tornado/arcade/termianatra a total of 5times.)
(edit2: dm20 is a disgrace to a mode that is supposed to be based on teamplay, it should never have been in any mappool ever)

I'd unleash brits on your dm20 dishonour :p :)

dm20 is fuckin brainfart its not wurth a tdm map

dm20 is chess with MG

dm20 is chess with MG

sweet pool!
no dm20 makes me sad tho.

good thing that o5/o6 is out imo, but i would rather play dm20 than say, (new) terminatria with _a lot_ of health on the map :xx
keeping the one of the slowest maps (dm14) in pool and removing one of the fastest (dm20) in terms of playestyles is unfair :/ what to do for no brain- only aim guys? :<

tornado is sweet map, just watch how ufx played it and you'll know.

To all complainers.. Give me maplist and map picking system which everyone will want to have and we can probably switch that. The thing is that you can't do that because you just can't please everyone, which most of complaining people don't realize and think that their opinion is the right one. I'm not saying that this is the perfect maplist and picking system, but having some variety from time to time is beneficial. Saying that you know many people who would attend with different maplist is kinda pointless because on the other hand, there are teams who wouldn't attend with your so called standardized 5 map list.

Everything has its pros and cons.. it just really depends on how you are able to evaluate those and make a decision. I'm not doing the lan for myself, so talking about some personalized decision is incorrect.

Who wouldn't go with purga, dreadful, limbus, terminatria, dm14 - pick pick drop drop?

this

11:59:04) (h8m3) Don't you think that something like 5 maps pick pick: purga, dreadful, dm14, terminatria, limbus or 7 maps drop drop tornado/arcane and dm20 would be more fair and reasonable?
(11:59:33) (h8m3) saying that pick picks tolerates practice when 50% of teams are mixes and some are inactive players
(11:59:36) (h8m3) is just dull
(12:00:14) (noctis) i (as in me, personally, my opinion) would switch to drop drop, leaving pool as is
(12:00:21) (noctis) or just remove tornado/arcane
(12:00:29) (noctis) leaving pick pick
(12:04:17) (h8m3) or that, though i'd lean towards 5 maps pool in that case

Adding to that:
"if i would have to change something"

im up for that, dont know how terminatria plays but the rest of the maps are good <3

Wision told me to post here. I'm lazy so a copy&paste:

11:58.14 [QuakeNet] [msg(wision)] well you've taken dm20 from us but made it look like you're pushing new maps and dm20 is old so it must go
11:59.03 [QuakeNet] [msg(wision)] but now new maps must go too? Give dm20 back then, remove Purgatory

I'm sorry, but are you really preparing to change the map pool and picking system because people who don't even plan to attend complain?

To me it's easy: active teams/players signed up to this tournament and the same teams/players (although we all have our preferences) are prepared to play new maps. We've played them before and already started practicing.

And to spectators who wanted to see dm20 on stream: guys, we're paying to play in this, so unless you're pixie_rail, why not just let us play what we want?

As far as I can tell your team hasn't payed yet, so I really don't see how that puts you into a different position than me, h8m3, gda, draven, frs etc...

Oh no wait, we've all actually already been to tdm lans in the past unlike you.

Money is out, but wision's bank is noob and needs the transfer to take days. But let's see who gets an asterisk on the team list first.

What about frs? I can't imagine anyone hating dm20 more than him, so I imagine he should be pretty happy? ;)

SHOTS FIRED! pow pow pow

What I meant is that I'm prepared to change to map pool and picking system which _everyone_ will like.. that includes you and everyone else, so why not? The point was that it will never happen.. I thought you would see it.

Sorry, I misread.

Ye absolutely impossible to find a mappool all are ok with! Look at all the whine when they used a standard mappool at dhw

An event that killed TDM LANs used as example of how to run stuff :)

put in dm20 instead of arcane or tornado?

Why? To have some other people whine about the maplist?

No, because dm20 is an established map an these two are not! In combination with the fact that this could be the last tdm ql lan (hopefully not) i see no point in just throwing in two maps, without them being properly tested in competition!

I like the idea of updating the mappool, but in this situation where people go for joy and pay out of their own pocket, it is quite risky to make so drastic changes!

Anyways, best solution in my oppinion would be 5 map pool, pick pick setup, and make a survey here on esr with maps! Five maps with most votes goes in pool!

And please stop that 'no matter what i do people whine'! This lan has been exposed as a lan for people who want to play, not win money! Listen to oppinions instead!

If you make a survey on ESR, top 2 winners will be Cooller and ztn disregarding the question.

So if this is a LAN for people who want to play, what's the problem with practicing prior to the event? I understand why draven or gda complain (they don't play at all and want to be able to just show up with no preparation), but what's the issue for active players?

You know there has been no TDM competition this year (I'm not counting CB where more teams dropped out than played, or one-day cups for which nobody practices). So when exactly are we planning to give new maps a chance?

how does that statement connects to brescias ...
On one hand you're saying that this lan is a highpoint of QL TDM this year, on the other hand he is saying that maps haven't been played in and tested i n competition with any amounting success.

His arguments stands on that pushing new maps in this lan setup with trying to get more teams in is a bad move. I tend to agree. You can get people like draven to commit to coming if you make it easier for them to participate.

That chance to maps could be given on this lan, however that argument is mute if you get 3 more teams signed up, from social as well as competitive point of view.

As for active teams, ye they will practice it and play it in, as they will have a clear edge over all other teams on any map in the map pool. That doesn't change.

Think Wision should consult on how mappool affects teams playing, as you've said last season and a half of EC and summer cup went badly with most teams dropping out, or going inactive and with most teams inactive, pushing on an obligation to learn 2 maps in such a situation doesn't read well. You aren't going to attract teams and random people with that.

As for me ... I'm coming almost certainly ... I personally would love for this LAN to show that it can be a community organized success with fun games ... pretty standard coverage (A level) and nice social event. With people/teams like FOM, 102, team cze, le, mini already sure of being there you can adjust mappool and pick system so it brings in more people and teams to play.

As for me ... I'm coming almost certainly ... I personally would love for this LAN to show that it can be a community organized success with fun games ... pretty standard coverage (A level) and nice social event.

That's pretty much how I see it.. and that's also why I don't understand that big fuzz about the map list/picking system.

That is because you are looking it from your own point of view, which doesn't fit in what you are supposed to do as an organizer.

From your point of view I bet it would be pretty awesome to have a lan which is EPIC and get to play out new maps and have teams give you good games on those new maps and everyone should be happy and i don't know (unicorns) ...

from POV of people that aren't as active as you are ... and that are unsure about going to the lan and need something to grab onto (like having some standard maps they know from 2 seasons back from) and so they don't need to put in too much effort to actually get there and participate on a level they would e comfortable on you don't see it.

I know people hate dm20 ... and people also hate tornado ... people also hate dm6 ... people also hate puragotry ... people also hate almost all the maps on the pool .. there really isn't any objective reason to listen to any of them.

You listen to what is real world values as far as having this lan becoming a success.
How many teams are inactive since 2 seasons ago .. how many good players you can get to participate and get to the lan and do some quality mixed teams that can make a difference ... how many low level teams you're getting and how many top players you're getting in teams and without teams.
What maps are best for those people, and what picking system is best for them.

It seems to me, without counting the randoms that are highly likely not to show up ... that you can catch more teams and players with a more standard map pool ... and played in maps ... than with 2 new maps that are almost sure to be forced upon them.

Yeah it sounds fussy, and truth be told it is fussy ... like little kids, always arguing about maps and picks, but the problem is that in such an extended period that quake runs from q3 till QL people usually pick up maps right away or never, and those that aren't picked up ... maybe come in later but not at a fun event like this ... but in a more elaborate scheme of catering to teams and arranging for top teams to be sure to play it up front so the lower/newer teams pick it up.

tl;dr: put dm6 back in the pool, chubz guarantees clans that used to play it 10 years ago will come.

(Strange that the 4 old men aren't complaining?)

it's not that and don't do that ... I'm not talking on that level with you, do I?

I don't see how they would ... they decided they are going no matter what, right? Also we're not talking about them are we? we are talking about the complainers teams and players who said out loud that mappool is shit and they don't consider attending because of it.

Also tell me, why are you in favor of 2 new maps and pick pick. I saw plenty of explanations of why not, and only one repeating for why yes ... (can't make everyone happy).

There's multitude of threads here on ESR discussing map pools and arguing in favor of introducing new maps.


Basically there are two reasons to keep playing same maps forever:

1. I lost motivation/suck at learning maps so let's play what I already know in and out.

2. This map suits my style (aka I win on it) so it must stay. Often masked as people saying "the new map is bad".

First one is valid, second is not.


And there's lots of reasons to introduce new maps:

1. It's fun to play new stuff, to be surprised when enemy does something you didn't know and to invent new plays no one else have before.

2. It's fun to watch new stuff that hasn't been "solved", where there's no playbook that says what to do off each spawn and in each position.

3. It flattens skill a little, making it more approachable for younger teams/players. I know it won't suddenly make us win vs better teams, but if we manage to keep you from mercylimiting us in 8 minutes, that's already a plus.

4. This also means the community can develop because new players won't be as intimidated by the veterans. So far in this LAN I see 4 "div 1" teams signed up, so I hope you understand that you need us noobs.

5. It gives people incentive to stay active, as they won't feel like they've completed the game. (I'm personally bored with stagnation in pickups, playing dm20/purga all day long, zzz)

6. It filters out whiny bitches that no one would want to play with in the first place! ;) Flame on!

So I really like how you can write a nice answer that has arguments I can agree with.

Just a comment on a few things tho:

We need everyone, it's not like you aren't gonna attend because of old maps right? While there are players here saying they won't attend because of not enough time to prepare.

And I know it's load of BS because if wision is willing to organize this and poeple are willing to support it, if you are apart of this community everyone should agree that nothing should prevent them on coming if they are available to come. not even fuss over maps (get that draven gda, GC, etc.)

Other side of that coin is: It's fun to play new stuff yeah, it's not fun to overcommit on something affecting your everyday life, when there is a clear option for having your cake and eating it too.

3. Flattening of skill will happen if we get more teams involved because then you can have QCON groups

4. Yeah and it would be let's say plus 2 div1 teams and an opening for a possible second group and maybe 2 more div2-3 teams if for instance you find 2 avail team from lower div, or maybe 2 teams form from soloing players.
As for developing community, I don't think you'll develop community on the LAN spot, you will do it however with coverage, with for instance getting teams to play special arcane citadel matches for fun ... showing off some games etc.

5. Yeah most people do complain about that ... some people are playing this game so mauch and had played this game so much they finished it on impossible levele like 10 times by now. Exciting times are coming ... new maps, new tactics, new teams, wait what? We're still talking about 1 weekend of socializing and playing some top competitive games?

6. Maybe community could develop better without those, then again somehow those are usually some of better players around (and I'm not talking about myself since I suck :) ) Love on!

From the beginning:

I was actually blackmailing wision that I'm not going if anything from doz3r's cup pool is in this one (except dm14, that's a good map). And I wouldn't! :) But I guess you mean twister's pool which I'd immediately complain about but still go.


You can't eat the cake and have it - the LAN already brought some teams from inactivity and we've already practiced the new maps a bit. It also gave us a reason to update #tdmpickup pool and people are cautiously trying them out there as well. This would be impossible if not this announcement.

And why practicing a new map or two needs "overcommitment"? I assume you plan on playing few practice games before the event anyways, or some pickups to warm up. Since some teams already played those maps in competitions (Tornado back in 2011, Arcane Citadel in dlCompare/Faceit cups), some simple strategies already exist and you can pick this up very fast.


Ad 3. This is not what I meant by flattening of skill, just my difficulty to express clearly in English, sorry :)

So what you're saying is introducing more teams into each skill level - this also has positive effect, but a different one. What I meant was bringing the levels a bit closer so we can practice together with less frustration (read: more games before ragequit, hehe).

And this happens prior to the event. It's summer now so it's really hard to get opponents for any kind of practice, so we have to play better teams :) And if we can practice more with less frustration - that is building community and as you said - doesn't happen on the LAN spot :)


Same about point 5 - announcing tournament pool livens up whole community in preparation to the event.

Look what happened with Cure - it was announced as part of QuakeCon map pool and:
- it got added to Faceit and 125 fps pools
- people played it
- we got some nice games even though there still is criticism about the map (DaHanG complained on stream etc.)
- now nsx asks ESR which maps to put in daily cup pool and Cure is winning the poll!

The map was really hated when it came out, then QC kind of forced it onto players, and now suddenly this community loves it?


Ad 6. Do I need to explain it was a joke? :) But I don't think introducing one map a year on average (nothing in 2011, Limbus - Jul 2012, Terminatria - Oct 2012, Arcane Citadel - May 2013) alienates anyone.

With the size of our comments, this must look like raythenoob talking to one of his alter egos :/

Yeah I know, but tbh I enjoy it ... since it hard to find anyone willing to comment on every aspect of a change , people mostly don't think about it and just do.

I realize it could be much easier if you can force better teams to play some map they aren't familiar with versus a lower tier team which is also unfamiliar ... it can be gratifying for both sides. And you are correct it builds connections between unfamiliar players who can then communicate about new problems.

That QC example is a very good example of why new maps have to be introduced on a regular basis.

As you've said you'll go even if it's twisters map pool, so I've said I'd go even if arcane and tornado are kept.

My statement relating to overcommitment was meant for guys like draven/twister maybe whole teams like action(altho I think they would come if CA maps were played if they could) who aren't actively playing and don't really care to prepare at all for this community tournament because it's not a highly sponsored event driven by pure competition, if it were and new map would have been thrown in and there is plenty at stake there, people would prepare it like crazy.

That is the only and biggest difference in what we have here and your QC analogy.

I don't really know about div2 team but div1 has been a wreck for past season or so ... sitto disbanding, le went inactive, l0wfly stopped even trying when carrier went inactive. GC are inactive, planB are semi active even tho they were on of biggest hopes to come from div2, aCt are almost non existant, play> play when and if they can to participate most of them I haven't seen in a while.
So tell me, there are teams here some of which will come, but not most, and these are teams that would bring a lot to this event which still has like what 10 days to get those teams on board if it's possible.
Friendlier map pool would do wonders there.

You keep one new map, teams will pick it ... you can even organize special matches on it. If you want to do the RIGHT thing and contribute. Hell I'd play them both in a fun but competitive match, ten times in a row in any mixed or organized team.

But think about like 2-3 mixed teams that get together, think it would be enjoyable for them to meet nay team with previous knowledge and get mercied on a map they played maybe 2 times. And don't underestimate how strong they individually might be.

I'll end it here but 'am looking forward to your reply

The QC example was only to show why you have to start introducing new maps from big tournaments which smaller will follow, because it doesn't work the other way around.

Obviously prize pool of QC makes it possible to actually force maps on people. No such power for a buy-in tournament.

But our little QL TDM community was usually more open to new maps (it's another story why it came to be that way, hehe), so it shouldn't be as difficult as with duelers (read: no need of forcing, most of us are open to try it).


I don't see why a team being a mix team leads up to them not knowing maps. Those are all maps that have been played in competitions before and played hundreds of times in pickups (not thousands like dm20 but still)

And main question is: are there actual teams/mixes waiting for change of map pool to sign up? Because last time I asked T1E he said "nons can't go", and not "map pool prevents us from signing up". No idea about the others.

Okay, agreed we are more open to new maps ... but you also have to consider what types of maps we are talking about... and while yes sometimes it is possible to better break a map lock on a 2 PU map such as purga/tornado/arcane we also know that it is very much possible for well played in teams to lock down maps and finish games in under 10 minutes :)

What I'm saying is that it is much easier to say to t1e ... sod off nons if you can go and have fun with demon and 2 other guys and bring in something to the spart1e :) if we have a map pool that includes one nice new map and certain well known maps to fall back to ... which DP/purga/limbus/ etc etc pose as fallbacks.

You can mix up draven spartie t1e and make gienon eat his words by switching to 5 map pool or by adding dm20 and keeping 7... while you introduce arcane and end up with brainstorming and giving input about how a new map can change.

As for team mixes, I think this topic revealed a lot of people keeping an eye but finding excuses not to go ... which is something that organizers must not let them take advantage of ... I think that wision should be on the case talking to people that said they'd go and really making this best event it can possibly be.

Think I even heard that purri has 2 players and is in need of fourth ... why not have one of those poeple that is BS about maps show up and play on this lan even if it is a plain old boring cess and all aim no skill dm20 match? I think it as good option as having less people and maybe slightly interesting games ...

Given almost a month to prepare you're gonna still have 102 mercylimiting lower tiered teams on all maps, right?

BTW did anyone get in contact with zyrinx and or q50 ddk and sitto guys in general? Cmon tony bring them with you!

Oh come on. With that logic you could aswell make a dm6, dm7, osp5 mappool, I'm sure someone is going to like that. The point is that you should aim for mappool that satisfies the biggest amount of people. I really don't see anyone being outraged about a purga, dreadful, limbus, dm14 +hidden/terminatria mappool.

You can take the tdmpickup stats as an indication of what maps people enjoy playing. I highly doubt you have tornado and arcane citradel leading the ranks there. Meanwhile terminatria is quite popular despite also being new. Go figure.

is also shamanics))

.

I'm bored watching dm20, the only good thing can be an amazing quadrun.

.

and lots of mercylimit games

I want this lan to be a success so badly. Can I pay for a team if I don't know the roster yet?

Sponsor me to go :O)

hide in fazz/fox/tybalt's luggage :)

Spart1e/Zhu/dem0n/+1

MAKE IT HAPPEN!

no one [+]ed this yet?

team master baiters will accept this offer

I'm not the type to bash risky mappools. I'm glad and excited when there is a good rotation. THAT BEING SAID I'm not so sure that pushing maps that many players don't like (with arcane citadel it may be a case of refinement, but tornado has been kinda rejected) for a fun tdm lan is the way to go. especially if it is a very rare ocasion. I'd like to see realm of the steel rats or ospdm6 instead. that's just me. not that it matters that much, but it may be consideration worthy.

I've never seen you near TDM, so where did you get that opinion from?

I don't see many players not liking the current pool. All I see is non-players not liking the pool. And I'm surprised the organizers care about those.

as I already told you my connection doesn't allow me to play, but I'm an avid tdm watcher and careful observer. I'm interested. all I said is if the mappool proves controversial (and there are already some people that raise this concern) pushing the maps disliked by a vocal part of people directly interested may not be worth it. Wision made it clear that this lan is about fun and it is my only concern. I don't really have a problem with the selection. but I do have my favourites mentioned above as much as the next guy.

I'm sorry, but "vocal part of people directly interested"? So far there's one signed up player disagreeing with the pool but still planning to go. And a bunch of spectators.

IF the mappool proves controversial

so far it didn't

.

Or maybe they never expressed the will to attend this LAN in the first place?

In case you don't know, this LAN has been announced over 3 months ago. And the map pool is a result of speaking with the signed up teams.

Makes a lot of sense to speak to the signed up teams. As if any team isn't just going to request their best maps.

Actually we're pretty good on dm20. Also:

http://esreality.com/post/2462038/prague-tdm-...pid2462359

.

I have.

.

Wision's bank doesn't speak SEPA :) I guess we won't get the * before weekend.

go Lam \o/

bring back Campgrounds :D

I will donate if map pool becomes interesting.
This is just garbage.

how about donating in a ticket to play by yourself

nah not really motivated to go to a Lan.
Furthermore i dont have the time.

need translation of this recent uNkind chat/interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mML3m6GVWvo

u N k i n d
N
k etc
i
n
d

25 minutes of decent play-by-play casting followed by a mini interview which can be cut down to "what did you do after winning WCG2002" - "everyone keeps asking that question - I went into professional employment and to study, worked as a deputy for an IT depratment, which I would call very far from esports".

"would you be willing to make a comeback" - "I wouldn't rule it out for a .RU tournament but too hypothetical to call"

I'd sponsor uNkind if he decides to come to Prague LAN!

Although he seems to be doing fine, not the typical "pro bum" who needs sponsoring :)

"recent"? :) it's 2008.

-l0wfly

cause of the pool?:/

no idea..
2013.08.08 - 23:00:43 <@frs> looks like we wont be making it to prague
2013.08.08 - 23:00:46 <@frs> funnyb dodging as usual

get another player instead?

that was suggested, but they don't feel like playing with a new player

what a surprise

get empish, he is not new

I will talk to signed teams to gather their opinion about the maplist and we'll see if we change it or not.

Why? They already signed up.

we have tdm lan every 6 months?

Because the lan is for them.

you heard him poeple ... start signing up draven, vium .... spart1e ... av3k, h8m3 ...

wision you should also tell people that showed interest that there is an option of changing and what they think, or whether or not they would participate if it changes ...
Bringing in like 2-3 more teams would be great

funnyb dodging another lan was expected.

My mapool:
Campgrounds.
Hidden Fortress.
Purgatory.
Dreadful Place.
Limbus.
Arcane Citadel.
Grim Dungeons.

it breaks my heart not to attend but lots of fun and love to everyone. some one other has to play the bavarian drink-it-all now, i nominate funnyb

oh wait.

Why no one plays ospdm5 anymore?

now those were the good old days <3
names instead of nicknames \o/
great frag by Gladyheviskikalexandresky

Tornado is shamanic dm20

can't believe the cry about maps!

neither can I :)

Did you really think that when you've decided on this mappool everyone would be like "No, nothing to see here. Moving along..."? ;>

lol at some guy whining about 40ms and a bunch of guys whining about new maps. This thread is full of BITCHES.

so you're coming over? memento seems keen to invest in someone !

really :) everyone should chill

some veterans still gonna pick good old dm14
new guys, who think they will have the map knowledge edge, and therefore chance to win vs top teams in set. still gonna pick tornado/arcane/limbus/terminatria
dm20- i think, is not anyone's home map, cuz you can't be sure on fast and aim heavy map like that.
it's not bad decider or mid game in bo5 if it happens, but nothing more.

maps are good. pick pick is good too, cuz it leaves some diversity (tho pick pick @adroits made us watch dm14/limbus only :<)
i personaly think drop drop with that mappool will work too
[+] one new map less to learn for someone not really active
[-] chance to remove someone's ''home'' map

p.s. i would love to see one map cups (like in 125fps) for tornado/arcane/terminatria with good date and mb some tiny prizes/presents

ill try to make a mix team instead to playing with 102 so we will have 1 more team playing and ill let 102 playing a full russian team.btw i still have no answers from my friend about the mix team


my 2 cents about maps:

arcane citadel needs some fix,its not balanced right now and unplayable imho

dm20: bored of it

tornado: true tdm map,who dont like it are just unexperienced players who say only "fuckin ffa map bla bla bla",what you say about dm20 then?
check some nationcup vods,like italy vs sweden on tornado,its the abc of tdm.


ill like to change arcane citadel with something different,we dont have much to choice,maybe intervetion,but ill like something new like fuse



edit: uhm maybe it was italy vs czech republic on tornado,dont remember and cant search atm,im in sardinia browsing by phone

arcane for intervention is quite a good idea imo (for dm20/o5/arcane haters :D)

cze indeed

http://www.twitch.tv/stermytv/c/820480

Wow, 20 minutes of spamming that doorway to RA or, if you feel like spicing things up a bit, railing the spawners from a hugely advantageous position above the mega.

By that reasoning, dm14 is bad because you spend 20 minutes spamming that chokepoint from quad room or, if you feel like spicing things up a bit, railing into that room from a hugely advantageous position behind a door in a chokepoint.

I'm noob but previously I was under impression that a map having a strong defendable position was making it a proper TDM map as opposed to so-called FFA?

Except that your description is hyperbolic while mine is pretty much what stermy and the rest of team Italy did for 20 minutes.

Not to mention the million of angles you get in the RA room on dm14 while there's a battle there as opposed to what happens on tornado in the same scenario.

It's still the same strategy as on dm14 - you want to have someone guarding choke points in order to keep the position you regard as stronger.

That they had a dedicated person to do that is just their style I guess, other teams tend to swap the player more often.

RA battles on dm14 are something special but no one is taking them from you :)

I'm saying that all Italians were camping the RA platform and spamming the chokepoint and you respond they had one dedicated player for that.

I'm saying that dm14 is much deeper than tornado despite the superficial similarity of chokepoints being more important than on any other map to counter your first argument about dm14 and you respond that it stays in the pool.

We're making solid progress.

tdm community is such a fragile thing : ) with not a lot of people involved and so many maps

wision is the man !

shit maps = shit lan

Drki, I like you and all but thats quite possible the most retarded comment I havet read today.

the day is still young, he might have a chance!

cant say im a huge fan of AC/tornado picks, what exactly is wrong with DP, purga, limbus, terminatria, dm14?

If you're asking me, then those 5 maps are the ones I started creating the maplist and then added two more, because I didn't predict that 7 map pool would be such a problem for many of you.. anyway.. like I mentioned already I'm asking signed teams about their opinion.. too bad that you decided not to come :(

i didnt decide not to come, i cant help it if someone cant get days off their new job

Let me rephrase it then.. You decided not to pick one of those 11 players from the free players list (and also avek who was suggested by lam).

tbh its more about having fun with your friends than just playing quake, i wouldnt be even playing anymore if it wasnt for my teammates. however we might make some kind of a mix anyway, we'll see

it would probably be more fun with fannyboiii, but without him it will be fun nonetheless.

cmon frs you gotta have more people you are connected to than 5/6 guys in your team ... you can find someone that you can all have fun with right?

looking forward to the lan. a bit of a shame about adding new maps or making a huge mappool. now people have to invest alot of time again to master new stuff, in the middle of summer, whilst we already had good maps to play to start with. i don't mind playing new maps but preferably one's that have been tried and tested in competitions like eurocup and have proven to be good maps to play and spectate, especially when we're talking about a lan event.

so my favourites;

purga, dreadfulplace, grim dungeons, intervention, deep inside, limbus and -one- of the newer maps like arcane/terminatria/etc. i didn't forget dm20 but i reckon it's probably not the best of maps to showcase "TEAM" despite the fact that i like the fast paced action on it when i'm playing it.

i reckon that would be a good balance between old and new with one really new map in the mix. throw in pick/pick and we're set, ready, go. anyway see u in prague.

You should talk to lars regarding the map pool.

are we supposed to like submit a list or something like that as a team? i've been out of the loop for a while.

You're supposed to let me know about your vote via IRC.

We need more teams,CMON!
Where are cypher and Avek?

We'll try to bring Av3k, if only to spectate and drink if he can't find a good enough team (let's hope he can!)

I don't think Cypher is interested in a TDM LAN where there's no duel tournament with money to win ;)

l0wfly should rename themselves to NO-fly.......

Signup payment deadline: 20.8.2013

Just a reminder.

The deadline is basically there so I can pay for the rent deposit. Considering I can pay the deposit already I can prolong the deadline for another two weeks. But that's really the time when I need all the money on paypal/bank account so I can pay the rest of the rent.

People shouldn't really wait until one hour before the deadline (hello cooke). It screws things up.

Why don't you set the teams' payment deadline a couple of days before your personal payment deadline?

It basically is.

Guessing that players who don't have a team list can be updated.

Done.

Cypher just confirmed at 125_fps stream, that he would like to go in Prague, even if there wont be a duel tournament.

102.Cypher

I CAN SENSE IT!

I remember he said sometime on twitter (in defense of someone here talking bs to him lol) that he enjoys a LAN more than anything, despite of losing or winning (money?), and now hes backing his words. :)

C Y P H E R
Y
P
H
E
R

I'd love to see him in a mix team.
c'mon dem0n! =p

now we have 5 teams. awaiting:
mix from l0w+dx
mix from dem0n and Spart1e
colwn
lemmings effect

so we get at least 8 teams. not bad.

8 teams is bad :(

bad for the budget of the event or for the event in general?

IIRC, the donations are enough to run this for 8 teams. But run a 3-day tournament for 8 teams would be overkill :)

not necessarily. there can always be a tourney format to make things last longer (bo5s, round robin or whatever). also there is always possibility to run some fun cups like fun duel cup for a 6 pack or whatever. we can fill the time imho.

I'm sure wision will make it fun for whoever comes over, and we'll kick tony's ass in FFA and other things will happen.

But from a "tournament of the year" perspective, that would be a disappointment, obviously. This kind of event deserves 16 teams :)

ye, but the whole event kinda has two faces. 'the tournament of the year' and also 'just a fun lan'. both perspectives completely valid but i decided to focus on the 'fun' side of things. which sets my expectations on a completely different level.

Kurwo

For budged.. I didn't really want to pay the rent from donations.

8 is better than if there will be 7 teams
it's all coz current ql tdm scene: no sponsors, no skill divisioned tourneys or leagues.

Having top 4 teams sponsored won't contribute to overall scene's health that much. Sure, it can be motivating to see you're putting time into an e-sport that matters, easier to explain your gaming to your mom or something ;) But otherwise there's no actual effect on anyone, you either want to play or not :)

But can't agree more about leagues! I crawled through the lower divisions in HoQ and know how important it is to have someone roughly at your level to practice against.

The other very very important thing you haven't mentioned is lack of Disrepute & vor. Ask the noobs we have in pickups now where they came from and half of them will tell you they were watching Level Up TV and got enlightened that this game is for them.

Dis&vor, come back! :*

I mean sponsor for tourney. Look at last TDM lan by Adroits, there wasnt any sponsor. I understand it's too hard to find a sponsor for quake tourney now due number of viewers and overall game popularity in compare of 200X years.

More like 12.

Whatever happened to mini? They were one of the first 2 teams to have paid and now they don't have that asterisk?

My mistake.. fixed now.

I'm interested in whats going to happen with reyka if people are saying he is banned? If he can't play then whats going to happen with 102?

nobody are saying that he is cheating. it's mistake by quakelive support. he will play if he will be there.

He doesnt have a foreign passport to come to Czech afaik(since he's hiding from army service)
Neither does cas yet who's currently planned as 102's 4th but his one is in the making

maybe bump thread as top news till signup payment deadline, or make a new one?

Got a question. "Signup payment deadline: 20.8.2013" - so u won't let mix team that'll be made right there in? ;)

There needs to be a deadline so I can get enough money for the rent. Also I need to know who's going to play so I can create a schedule etc..

That's not even close to an answer for my question :) I know what deadlines are for, but what about mix teams made up right there?

If it won't screw up the schedule, then why not. The more the merrier!

k, cool. I hope Av3k and Cypher will come, that's why I'm askin'.

102's stream title:
'Pracs 102 - Road to Prague 2013'
<3

*Thread bump*

Pigs fee paid. C'mon le, knock, rebels. And would be nice if the players who don't have a team would update their status.

+ 300! \o/

3 0 0 !
0
0
!

omfg yes yes!!!
DEMON DEMON DEMON!

Hey czech guys!
I am thinking about make some team. Doesnt matter how skilled you are. There is only one requirement: you need to drink home-made vodka (slivovica) with me. If you are interestet let me know here or on IRC (nick Legie) and we can make a team.

If you dont know, i can play some TDM!!!!!
There is how:

Im for the slivovica,not for the powerups :)

and this is how too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeneueJISR4

Pffffffffffffffffffffffff.

=))))))) haahahahah


also.. I really miss the effect lodbias had on weapons and jumpad surfaces :'(

In this video, lodbias is untouched. You meant picmip.

I think it's r_lodbias set to 1. Not is only the RL different, but the LG is much narrower.

Yes, I meant picmip! But also combined with lodbias from the video (no "holes" on RL). I know it was talked in the past but why they changed how picmip affects surfaces in QL? Models and objects looked so smooth and had that unifying feel.

Why there's no cg_nomip for weapons - I don't know, but we have the "ghost weapon" mode which can suit you.

Jump pads can't be handled as easily, it's the map itself deciding what's mipmapped and what isn't. You'd need much work to code additional flag for jump pads, then mark them on all maps and release map updates to the whole world - weeks of work for no benefit at all.

Picmip for explosions, rocket exhaust and plasma balls would be a big competitive advantage, basically forcing everyone to use it. So it was decided to instead keep the view blocking capabilities of those. Nice side-effect is that it adds additional mini-skill of vision-blocking plasma spam and quakers love all those useless skills they can master :)

Ha! I messed it all up, you are both right (you and T1E) the cvar is in fact cg_nomip :) . And yeah, cg_drawgun 3 is a nice addition indeed. But jumpads not affected by picmip is just wrong.. it's like different movies :(.

nomip

advanced picmip for any surface, when I tried fox' config, it had a weird value, couldn't be bothered to find the something-mask values for it
(1+2+4+8+16+32+64 etc style to enable disable certain aspects)

edit: bitmask was the term..

hey man, great to see you again! How's the music career getting along?

hey hey! ye i was online long time ago....its hard but works good..still studying and working on it! hope sometime we go to Belgium! :>

those were the best days :)

Don't care about maps at all, can and will play any.

wow, 300 looks good!
P U R R I
U
R
R
I

would be nice if a few more ppl that showed such enthusiasm here www.esreality.com/post/2416662/prague-lan-updated/ would sign up for the lan.

3 0 0
0
0

Can other teams write where they plan on sleeping? So we can book the same hotel and run the drinking tournament that LesTR promised? ;)

Still not booked ours. Anything that is close walking distance from the lan for affordable price which includes normal comfort = 2-4 star hotel. Do it!

Info about accomodation around the place and transportation is in the previous post.

Yes, but would be nice to gather players to same :)

Exactly!

So do any teams have looked into the hotels and have a preference towards one/some?

i want in on this one as well. the more the merrier

anything in the center is good if u wanna go to a bar or so, the lan place is easily accesable by metro

http://www.hostels-in-prague.com/hostels/hotel-sunshine/

We got a room in that place, think we'll pay like 30e per person for 4 nights.

http://www.herradura.cz/ubytovna_praha_sunshine.html

there are pictures...its not hotel exactly its hostel....its something like students internat but prize is very cheap!

I would prefer this? http://www.hotelcarol.com/en

It's same distance (next to your hostel) and also less cost? 376euro for 4 people + 4 nights makes it less what you pay for, but a lot nicer? Not sure if this is a scam or? :D

Features two single beds (90x200), a comfortable sofabed (160x200), desk and chair

There's your catch, someone will have to share a sofa.

I'll share with my one and only Liefje! :)

what do you mean have to? in lowfly we would have to fight over who 2 get to share it

I'm thinking you're just faking orgasms so you don't get kicked from l0wminus

Haha, na i might just have been unclear. Im paying 30euro for my whole stay. Yours is nicer though i'll give you that :p.

hotel sunshine it is

hes hoStel is like 100euro 4 nights.

If your still intersted in carol use this code: carol123 (takes off 5%)

after seeing lvl^ stream, it is such a shame we won't have lowfly there =((
notfunnyb ='(

:(

what's your excuse?

I only hit 6% on lan, no point.

cant help not to notice the lack of zgermans, sup with that?

maps :(

more donators -> spartie wins more money -> spartie gets wasted -> memorable epic moments of him drunk in the street TAPED AND SHARED

In b4 getting puked on by drunk girl, pissing buttnaked on the eindhoven streets and dancing like a retard alone on the dancefloor

more donators - should be less player fee, not more winnings:)

Or more free beers

Spartie will not win

how's your team getting along?

Asked many,had no answers,when i come back from holidays ill work on it

*Kisses* :)

the-party was the most epic lan of all times, sitting together in this sureal hotel bar with derfel deus gerppa and the gang has a special place in my memories.

also lol at gerppa drinking 120 eur in girly drinks

Only winz's crew is missing!

3 new maps in a month, ez!
just gonna play aginst bots on them and the kick some ass at the lan!
would be nice though if you drop one of the new maps arcane tornardo or terminatria.

Let Ulises31 show you the maps, then play some pickups or even better, get your team and practice (I can offer my unskilled team for new map practice until you learn enough to start owning us too hard, hehe).

does the stream have 240 and 360p option?

(well somebody has to start )

was hoping to attend myself

but my bday is the 19th and i dont like the mappool atm so gl and havefun everyone

donated 100euro , might donated more next month if i can spare some more money

wow, that's generous man!

$Have a very warmly [+] draven <3

I had an unexpected increase in wealth, I am seriously considering to attend

pushed your granny down the stairs?

got hired for a 3-month research project. I`ll earn norwegian moneys that means i earn more in one month than my life is worth

Me and Garbol are still looking for a team or 2 guys to team up with.

pradda
blackf1re
nekvic
damned1
BoP_B_3aKoHe
DieZel
deotrip
players who don't have a team
?

I also think Tony and ZLC are looking for a team and perhaps some others that don't come to mind at this moment.

I'm waiting on ZLC to respond and I think tony jumped the gun and joined tykes.
le locked their lineup so I'm half way to nowhere.

If ZLC and dash wanna join up it would be really good, we would need one more player.

lemmings is a confirmed go; payment has been made and all the nitwits have started playing.

see you in PRG and ... REDKOREDKOREDKO!

NiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiCeeeee :O)