Defensive style : 6/10 (not that good at being sneaky, definitely not the best defensive player)

did you even watch any game of cooller?
Cooller after his comeback adapted evils style a little bit with playing more offensive, but the early cooller was a master at defensive play as well; I would think he still can play defensively very well, even though it seems as if he doesn't want to nowadays. At least 8 out of 10.

if you think that i'm wrong feel free to contribute to this thread :>

or maybe you're another cooller fanboy :D

cooller is definitely better when in control.

the benchmark for a 10 out of 10 in defensive play could be pavel with a 10, as it seems he doesn't mind playing out of control.

mosdef

well, hes right tho...

before the break cooller was a fucking mastermind of defensive gameplay, due to his timing ability

yeah but if you compare him to cypher evil and rapha, his defensive gameplay isn't as good. 6/10 isn't a bad score actually. He's much better at playing defensively than 99% of duel players, but compared to let's say rapha, he's definitely not as good.

Cooller is known for being a constrictor, means that his "in control" play is fucking insane at times.

no :-)

cyphers combat skills worse than cooller, saying coollers rockets are very good and then calling cyphers aim merely 'good'.

2/10 heartless, but knowing esr, drama inc.

it's because cooller's dodging is better than cypher's. Raw aim cypher is better by a little bit.

but overall the legend cooller remains cooller, so 9/10 vs cypher's 8/10

Combat Skills easily Cypher > Cooller.
edit: also what rapha no 10/10 on control?

No, becuz sometimes he pulls a He4rTL3sS here and there.

cypher has a bit better aim than cooller, but is less good at dodging. Only his defensive rails are fucking insane at times.

don't get me wrong, 8/10 is still a very highscore, and cypher's combat skills are still very good. But from my point of view, that's not what makes him win most tournament. It's more the fact that he's a complete player without any real weaknesses.

for example if you make cypher and cooller play a match of eyetoeye, you would be surprised by the result. By combat skill I don't mean positioning and map knowledge (like using the geometry of the map at your advantage), i'm talking about "pure" dodging and aiming.

So yeah, cooller in shape, practicing 24/24 7/7 is probably better than cypher when it comes to "pure" combat skills. But not by much, still. A match of them at eyetoeye would be very close actually, but cooller would win by a little margin.

i hope this thread doesnt get a lot of shit

Your ratings of Rapha and Cypher are garbage, Rapha's offensive style is not less than 8 or 9, same for his overall combat skills (combos, weapon selection, traps, spamming, etc.;);
and Cypher is known exactly for his combat skills, that you rated only 8? He's a solid 10...

Cooller's defensive skills.... 6? Trolling or you simply don't like Cooller?
Cooller is know to be a master of elusivity and dodging against any weapon, it is one of his biggest assets.

Anyway, how is it that peoples that have been so succesfull in quake like Rapha and Cypher have the same overall score of players like Evil or Cooller, that have won not even the half of what they did?

Your system is too schematic, and your ratings are wrong, seems that you rate raw aim over anything else, which isn't really surprising :) .

cypher isnt that good in-fight tbh. ofc, like any other professional, he will be able to keep up or even win fights, but to say hes as good as evil in a fight is just retarded

Your ratings of Rapha and Cypher are garbage, Rapha's offensive style is not less than 8 or 9

Nop. Rapha is good in control as well as out of control. But that's mainly because of his ability to read the opponent and positioning. You won't see rapha rushing as much as evil for example. He will rush only when he's sure to make a frag and doing a lot of damages. But his playstyle is quite defensive actually, at least compared to evil cooller and cypher.

same for his overall combat skills (combos, weapon selection, traps, spamming, etc.;)

traps, weapon selection and spamming isn't combat skill actually. Combat skill is raw aim and dodges.
read the replies i've made above.

and Cypher is known exactly for his combat skills, that you rated only 8? He's a solid 10...

like i said, by combat skill i mean raw aim and dodges. Not positioning or map geometry awareness. Cypher's combat skills are overated, if he played some eyetoeye he would be beaten by quite a lot of people like strenx, h41 and probably also k1llsen.
Cypher is very successful at quake not mainly because of his combat skills, but more because the fact that he's a well rounded player, without any real weaknesses.

Cooller's defensive skills.... 6? Trolling or you simply don't like Cooller?

keep in mind that 6 isn't a bad score. And like i said already above in the replies, cooller's defensive skills are better than 90% of the quake duel playerbase. But when, for example, you compare him to rapha, he's definitely not as good as him when it comes to positioning and defensive rockets/rails.
And like i said, cooller is a constrictor, or a pacman, means that he's fucking insane at times, when in control.

Anyway, how is it that peoples that have been so succesfull in quake like Rapha and Cypher have the same overall score of players like Evil or Cooller, that have won not even the half of what they did?

Read my comment below.
Like I said, they have the same overall score because when they are all in shape, and when they practice all 24/24 7/7, they are equally good. Only a bad and good day, and also luck, can seperate them. Depends also on the maps they play.
And if you compare the last results of evil rapha and cooller, both online and at lans, they are pretty even actually. Like I said, it only depends on bad/good day and the way they practice.

Also, for me evil and cooller are legends just like rapha and cypher, it's just that they are older and a bit rusty at times ;)

seems that you rate raw aim over anything else, which isn't really surprising :)

Not really, even tho i'm a CA player, i rate dodging as high as raw aim. And ofc map knowledge/control/positioning and metagame.

metagame <---> CA

??

> cypher
> combat skills 8/10
> cypher
> combat
> 8/10
> cypher
..


...




....

+ Cooller not sneaky...?

I didn't bother reading it
but that caught my eye
so I scrolled down immediately
to formulate my reply

http://www.esreality.com/post/2475524/re-how-...pid2475176

cypher's combat skills are overrated. Not saying that he's bad or anything, cause actually he would rape 90% of the duel playerbase just with his combat skills.

but... if you compare him to k1llsen, toxjq, strenx and so on, he's definitely not as good. However, keep in mind that 8/10 is still a very high score, so like i said, his combat skills are still pretty damn good.

now let's be honest, if you put cypher vs toxjq in a game of eyetoeye, toxjq would win it. Game would still be pretty close but still, toxjq combat abilities are a bit superior than cypher's.

by combat skills i mean raw aim and dodges. Not map geometry awareness (like using the map geometry at your advantage, or put yourself in weird situations to hit difficult but unpredictable shots).

cypher is one of the most successful quake player not mainly cause of his combat skills, but more cause of the fact that he's a complete player, without any real weaknesses, and basically he can do everything. Like hitting insane rails shot ala k1llsen :D.

Combat skills do not equal aim. Cypher's combat skills are way sicker than k1llsen's. And I'm saying this as a k1llsen fan who hates Cypher. I think right now only Evil has better combat skills than Cypher.

So true. I generally call combat skills, particularly in Cypher's case, "rox-fu" (because he typically devastates at closer range with rockets in a kind of kung-fu awareness/reaction).

like cypher's point blank air rox

Fatal1ty
Offensive style : 10/10 Better offense game than Evil
Defensive style : 10/10 Better defensive game than Rapha
Combat skills : 10/10 Better Combat skills than Cypher
Map control : 10/10 Better map control than Agent

This man has Evil/Strenx Shaft, spart1e rail, Rapha brain, Cypher clutch and k1llsen aim, mixed with the best rockets the game has ever seen.

still not as good as cooller, I agree

Spart1e his rail suppose to be better than k1llsen's or toxjq etc? Spart1e is a good all around aimer i'd say but not particularly outstanding with any.

spart1e in his prime was an amazing rail he could turn games around on just rail alone a guy in full control would suddenly get railed 3 times in a row and spart1e would take control. It hurt him a lot of times because its such a risky/ballsy style which is why spart1e is beloved. k1llsen has a controlled rail he will hit the rails he should hit and the pixel rails, he'd never put him self in dangerous situations with rail, like spart1e would, which are the hardest rails to hit, the ones if you dont hit, you are going to die.

nice ;0

so overall they each score 33/40. sitting on the fence much?

it's because they are all pretty much equally skilled players. Luck is the only factor that will separate them. Also a good day/bad day can change everything. Mappool too. And, finally, also the way they practice.

for example cooller is not as good as he was when he practiced 24/24 7/7, which gave him 2nd place at IEM world.

basically, cooller not in shape = shadow of himself. Cooller in shape : top contender.

annnnndddd, if you see the last online and lan results of rapha evil and cypher, they are pretty much even.

evil needs to win dhw before hes even with rapha/cypher until then hes on the level av3k/k1llsen, were guys that could win a major lan but never did it consistently like rapha/cypher have. If evil wins dhw again he will end all doubt about his first dhw just being a fluke/timing thing of basically every top dueler experimenting with shootmania.

2nd at quakecon was a nice start to prove evil has staying power but cypher didn't even attend.

i count also faceit cups, 125fps cups, and others online cups. Not only LAN events.

and, i think that you will agree with me that evil is in shape latelly even tho he lost to rapha at quakecon (he lost but it was actually VERY close). Still, like you said, he won a dreamhack, and will probably win the next one if he keeps practicing and if he's in shape. Only luck and good day/bad day can make him win the dreamhack (with proper practice ofc).

I don't disagree evil has the potential to be on the level rapha and cypher are I'm just saying he hasn't reached that yet until he wins this years DHW. Then it can be confirmed he has staying power.

LOL

leave av3k alone, and thank your god he's got some mental block when facing rapha.

its not really a dis to evil/av3k/k1llsen its more of a compliment to cypher and rapha to have stayed at the top for so long for what they've done they have to be elevated one step above everyone. Just winning 2 lans is a pretty major deal in its self, but to have won as many as cypher and rapha have its just on another level.

av3k wins against cypher 7 out of 10 times.

how many times did av3k play cypher in a semi final of a lan? none? at least i dont remember

he wins 7/10 times online or on lan vs cypher? cypher on lan is a different beast. Poni beats cypher online does that mean hes going to beat cypher at dhw? I'd bet money on no.

av3k/k1llsen/evil/strenx would all have multiple lan victories if cypher/rapha didn't exist that is why rapha/cypher are above everyone they have no blocks but them selves

he wins both offline/online.

at some point, lan admins broke whole competition in ql, by setting the brackets in exact same way.

its not like its a huge gap they are all great players (evil,av3k,k1llsen etc) rapha and cypher are just slightly better based off achievements and longevity. Another thing is cypher and av3k hated playing each other in tournaments they were best friends almost like brothers. I'm pretty sure they've even split winnings from a few lans.

achievements and longevity

both result of "fixing" lan results

cypher would say av3k is better av3k would say cypher is better then theyd both smoke many cigarettes

ow the power of edit

yeah they are best buddies and stuff.

Actually a few lans back p0ni lost to cypher 2-1 @ groupstages on some close matches.

p0ni is one of the most annoying players you will see around tbh.. but ye i know what you mean, and i agree. It has alot to do with the playstyle of those players, it's very lan based.

2nd at qc with a tied final gg. also wtf is this about luck in evils dhw win? also, he's been raping online for the past year, consistently pwnd cypher in online finals

Toxjq (prime)

Offensive style : 7.5/10
Defensive style : 8.5/10
Combat skills : 9/10+
Map control : 5.5/10

Strenx (prime)

Offensive style: 8.5/10
Defensive style: 7/10
Combat skills: 8/10
Map control: 8.5/10

Baksteen

Offensive style: 6.5/10
Defensive style 8/10
Combat skills: 6.5/10
Map control: 7/10

Spart1e

Offensive style 7.5/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 7.5/10
Map control: 7.5/10

Dem0n

Offensive style: 8/10
Defensive style: 7/10
Combat skills 8/10
Map control 7/10

K1llsen

Offensive style: 9/10
Defensive style: 8/10
Combat skills: 7.5/10
Map control: 6.5/10

Ash

Offensive style: 8/10
Defensive style: 8/10
Combat skills 7.5/10
Map control 7.5/10

Pavel

Offensive style: 7/10
Defensive style: 9/10
Combat skills: 7/10
Map control: 7.5/10

Poni

Offensive style: 8/10
Defensive style: 6.5/10
Combat skills 7/10
Map control: 7/10

Av3k (prime)

Offensive style: 9/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 8.5/10
Map control: 7.5/10

DaHang

Offensive style: 8/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 8.5/10
Map control: 7.5/10

Agent

Offensive style: 6.5/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 8/10
Map control: 9.5/10


Stermy (prime)

Offensive style: 7.5/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 8.5/10
Map control: 7/10

Guard (prime)

Offensive style: 8.5/10
Defensive style: 6.5/10
Combat skills: 7.5/10
Map control: 7/10

very nice alborz ;)

thks for taking the time to do it!

My pleasure mate. Hope others post some ratings too instead of trolling.

it doesnt move, is it...is it dead?

Its waiting...

so am I

tox
combat 9/10+ bitch please


10+/9

only z4muz brother hits harder

Combat skills ain't all about 'hitting harder'. It's a collection of attributes that make you the most effective in battle. And no, Toxjq ain't perfect in that regard. He probably has the most effective combat skills with cypher in Duel, but there are plenty of people ingame/other gamemodes that would destroy him aim/combatwise.

Just my observation.

Agent

Offensive style: 6.5/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 8/10
Map control: 9.5/10

LOL WUT?


you just put random numbers to player nicks.

Not taking the bait, sir. How about you post some 'real' numbers to prove me wrong instead ;).

its not bait, its you being a fucking moron having no knowledge about players.

agent def, as i mentioned.

prime av3k map control 7.5/10? this guy pushes you around as much as he wants when in control.

guard def 6? when he plays as he should [eg playing strenx] you can see how defensive he can be. and it works till the point guard rages.

theres more bullcrap, based on nothing.

My opinion. No need to be mad. Besides, Guard plussed my post. His approval is more worthy to me than yours tbh.

Toxjq (prime)

Offensive style : 7/10
Defensive style : 9/10
Combat skills : 10/10
Map control : 5/10

Mainly a defensive player from when he has a lead. Focuses on damage instead of map control.

Strenx (prime)

Offensive style: 7.5/10
Defensive style: 9/10
Combat skills: 8/10
Map control: 9/10

Strenx lacks creativity that's his biggest mistake in my opinion,
not that good offfensive compared to some others really good at keeping positions/positioning to control items/players, strong hitscan.

Spart1e

Offensive style 7.5/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 8.5/10
Map control: 7.5/10

Can't say much about Spart1e lately it seems like he's just playing for fun and not taking the game seriously. He seems to just jump around wanting to do damage and grab any items without any thought behind it. Strong aimer with every weapon and good dodge.

Dem0n

Offensive style: 8/10
Defensive style: 7/10
Combat skills 8/10
Map control 7/10

Agree with this because he's obviously a strong aimer but sometimes a little inconsistent offensively better than defensively and the skill he lacks atm to compete with the top is map control.

K1llsen

Offensive style: 9/10
Defensive style: 8.5/10
Combat skills: 10/10
Map control: 6/10

Aim aim aim aim

Pavel

Offensive style: 6.5/10
Defensive style: 10/10
Combat skills: 7/10
Map control: 8.5/10

No too sure about Pavel his combat skills, some days he's amazing some days he's lacking. VERY strong defensive player even more-so than toxjq in my opinion, just toxjq has the aim to back him up. Good at timing/controlling. Offensively has some troubles getting the damage done.

Av3k (prime)

Offensive style: 9/10
Defensive style: 7.5/10
Combat skills: 8.5/10
Map control: 7.5/10

Agree with most, the thing I like about av3k he's either really defensive or really aggressive and it seems to sometimes work brilliantly and sometimes blow up in his face.

DaHang

Offensive style: 8/10
Defensive style: 8/10
Combat skills: 8.5/10
Map control: 8/10

Very strong aimer and map controller with positioning and movement. Very good in control has some troubles out of control but that's only when he has to come back.

Agent

Offensive style: 4/10
Defensive style: 9/10
Combat skills: 5/10
Map control: 9.5/10

Agent really good DUELER as in he doesn't play CA with weapon and armor pick ups he reads the opponent, the stack and the map. Very good defensively good luck catching him with his defensive rockets and movement around map. Offensive he has to have his day and a bit of luck in my opinion. Combat skills are quite bad overall but some days he hits everything, very inconsistant.

evil

Offensive style : 10/10
Defensive style : 7/10
Combat skills : 9/10
Map control : 8/10

Controls maps aggressively but chooses when to be aggressive but when he's not in the lead he doesn't choose when to not be aggressive and that's the main problem with evil plus some strong positional aimers should be able to knock him off his game quite fast if they practise more. note: strenx/toxjq
I'd say he's very good at controlling a map except when it comes to timing which everyone always says is impeccable from him but I've seen him miss important items plenty enough due to a combat or miss-timing.

rapha

Offensive style : 7/10
Defensive style : 10/10
Combat skills : 7/10
Map control : 10/10

Very thoughful player, very strong rockets, decent rail to keep up with some of the pros but not outstandiing like k1llsen for example same with his shaft. Mainly focuses on dodging in fights and stack/positonal advantage. Very good map controller can time more items than most pros except maybe from cooller or someone I don't know about. Stronger defensively that's also how he'll try and regain map control, timing the items you take while position himself smartly and/or set a trap. He's more comfortable in the lead but it doesn't matter that much.

Cypher

Offensive style : 8/10
Defensive style : 10/10
Combat skills : 10/10
Map control : 7/10

Controls the map by doing defensive damage on the opponent or rushing through damage while getting the kill. Very strong dodger and aimer with every weapon also loves to play in weird positions and hit difficult angles to make it more difficult for the opposing player. Defensively he's better than offensively as his offensive game is mostly consistant of +forward with big stack and great aim/dodge. Defensively he's that good because he already likes to play out of position and weird angles while mixing his strategy up to confuse his opponent. Doesn't like controlling the map by timing items and positioning, will do it with unconventional methods.

Cooller

Offensive style : 8/10
Defensive style : 9/10
Combat skills : 7.5/10
Map control : 10/10

Cooller in QL started out with the wrong methods when he starts getting his old aim back he'll have a much easier time doing what he wants to do on the map, is a heavy presence on the map and doesn't care about the opponent he'll take damage just to get items and control the map positionally but then will do enough damage to stay in control, very good item timer up there with rapha defensively very strong rockets and LG but his railgun is a little bit lacking but his understanding of the game and reading the opponent are so good he doesn't have too much trouble, offensively he'll prefer to set traps or wait for the opponent to make a mistake, cooller should choose when to be aggressive and not catch too many spam.

I rate them by their tournament win percentages, the only thing that matters in the end.

gay thread

fix your fugly face before calling this thread gay.

teenagers do this kind of shit when they admire their heroes (footballers, musicians, whatever).

u do it with quake players.

ur gay.

and m8, stop being a fat nerd before talking about looks ;)

i'm not fat

i'm 182cm for 82kg of muscles.

And i look awesome with my new haircut.

saw the pics.

looks like a childrens body. no muscles, a lot of fat.

and the haircut: you look like a 50yo lesbian woman now. grats?

before you start judging others, start from yourself.

however i bet you're rich, look like brad pitt, and have body of pro bodybuilder, like any internet hero

Hi I'm from 3 years later

http://www.esreality.com/post/1853953/quake-top-trumps/

He4rTL3sS
Offensive style : 0/10
Defensive style : 0/10
Combat skills : 0/10
Map control : 0/10

He4rTL3sS

Hair cut : 1/10
Girlfriend : 0/1
life control : 3/10

http://www.esreality.com/post/2473293/re-got-...pid2473293

I changed the way to brush my hairs. My haircut definitely looks better that way.

so, would be more like :

Hair cut : 10/10
Girlfriend : 0/10
life control : 4/10

=))

Quite entertaining thread.. even tho before i started reading comments i thought the idea was for people to rate the players aswell.

Anyways, only issue i have is.. i don't think you can evaluate the quality of someones raw aim when your talking about duel. It's true that some players implement the "raw aim" concept more in their games.. thus being called aim whores but the basic idea of duel is to do damage without taking and getting map control.

So basicly most duel players tend to favor positioning over aim..
But i don't think that it means that they are better cess players and aim whores, it's just the playstyle they adapted. I'm pretty sure low acc players like evil cooller cypher avek and even rapha are all of them pretty good at aim whoring.. if they want to. I mean, aim whoring is the most basic aspect of the whole game when your a pro dueler.. u should know that heartless.. your main mod is a "noob friendly" mod who's based on that.

would be more like :

Br4iNL3sS (or Sh4m3L3sS)
Offensive style : 8/10
Defensive style : 8/10
Combat skills : 20/10
Map control : 0/10

Mental toughness:

Cypher: 5\10
In a past he was pretty stable and had unique ability to improve when somebody pushes him - hit some insane, crazy shots. Now, he falls to chatting, raging and forfeiting too much. Something happened with his mental stability. Maybe, strenx bit him.

evil: 10\10
Cold as a hill. Impressive ability to stay calm and focused. One of the things that makes him arguably the best comeback master in the world.

Agent: 0\10
Crybaby

rapha: 9\10
Zis is rapha.

strenx: 5\10
Likes to whine and make drama.

pavel: 6\10
Not very stable lately. Can visibly rage from one unlucky situation. He even stated it on a stream one time.

dahang: 6\10
Pretty good at early stages, but really falls off in deciding matches.


cooller: ?

killsen: ?

Cypher:

Mental : 0/10
Puberty : 10/10

Good one.

I'd put players like Toxjq, Rapha, Evil, k1llsen, ZeRo4, Stermy and Av3k on the upper end spectrum of mental stability.

A bit lower I'd say: Cooller (Inhuman calmth and focus when it matters, occasional mad episodes making me not rate him upper tier though).

It's actually interesting to see these names are generally the people who win or won LAN's in the past. People really seem to underestimate the importance of mental clarity and confidence. Just look at a player like Rapha for instance, everything he does just oozes determination and confidence. Something I am very envious of.

People like strenx and spart1e for instance could've achieved so much more if they were just a bit more persistant or confident under pressure, because skillwise they're most definately up-par with the champions I mentioned in the beginning of this post.

toxjq they called the terminator because nothing phases him, I can see the same in evil if i'm honest. k1llsen seems to stay calm behind the scenes but I doubt it if he actually does between maps, has troubles in later stages of LAN events. Av3k used to rage much more than he now does matured a lot regained a lot of calm. Strenx lately was saying he learned to control his emotions with shootmania i'm still doubting if that's actually true. Spart1e lately seems to not care but then rage when he loses. Cypher had some mental breakdown I guess.

I watched strenx's stream 3 or 4 month ago and he raged while playing pracc against BoJI@H4uk, lol.

Evil 10/10? Oh yeah, you're russian.

Oh yeah, you're rapha biggest fanboi.

I'm not. Rapha has a lot of flaws in his style, and in every match he plays he does various mistakes. He's not perfect, like some peoples claim, not even close. And his aim...
I just give credit were it's due, contrarily to you.

it's kind of hard to deny evil is a goddamn rock.

A rock, sure, but he's not 10, and he's not the strongest mentally.

has anyone came back from down 2 to 0 more than cypher? when he takes something serious he is 10/10

cooller and zero4 i don't really know how you would rate since they are at the point of just not caring and just having fun since they have nothing left to prove in quake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZqiW_SaMdM

facing elimination against dahang on t7 forced to go +back almost the entire OT pulls out the win on biggest stage in quake.

i think people are still upset that he decided not to continue persuing a career in professional quakelive

I actually think it's the other way around. evil is rock solid, but he sometimes gives up and just goes ultra offensive throwing away frags after frags, losing by 20 at the end. I never see rapha lose his cool, even if things don't work out for him.

Also, Agent is pretty weak mentally, yeah, but he did a huge comeback vs dem0n on a Hektik once. If he has a good day, he doesn't give up immediately after losing some frags and can make shit happen, so I would at least give him a 2/10.

k1llsen I'd say is a 7. He's pretty relaxed. Probably because he smokes a lot. But nowhere near evil/rapha.

lol dont post more bullcrap than its required

watch this before you rate rapha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWX2I38XmHU.