I hope I captured most of what has been discussed. If you feel strong about an alternative, post it asap.

VARIANT 1 + PEFRORMANCE AWARDS MASTER RACE

the step up from 9th to 8th in cash terms using variant 1 is a bit much imo and it's nice to have a saver for 17th-32nd for all who have shown up. the performance awards look a more interesting proposition.

so variant 2 + performance awards

I would like some different distribution :

maybe 600 for 5-8
and 300 for 9-16

no map / community awards

(5$ left goes to guy with lowest map wins and frags combined )) )

I added it to the description and the poll.

What about Variant 1 + Map wins + Performance awards? No possible?

I consider the map wins as an alternative to the fixed prize to 17th-32nd.

How about you scrap all that. Organize an after party at a strip club and slap a go pro camera on Spartie with live stream capabilities.

That or a limbo competition, shame ins isn't attending, he'd literally walk it.

DISCLAIMER : I didn't give any money.

Variant 1 + Map Wins Prizes (2)

Variant 1 because I don't want the 16th to 32th to take money from the pool just like that.

Map Wins Prizes because Performance Awards are totally subjective and I hate that. Also because it's my idea :p. And distribution 2 because this one makes sense. You wrote 5th-16th instead of 5th-8th though ;). Original post :
http://www.esreality.com/post/2510234/re-drea...pid2510234

I would do Variant 1 + Performance Awards.

However, Variant 1 leaves only 200$ for the Performance Awards, which isnt really enough.

I would change Variant 1 as to where 5-8th gets 700 (instead of 750) - leaving an extra 200$ for the Performance Awards.

So, to recap:

5-8th: 700$ each (= 2800)
9-16th: 200$ each (= 1600)

4 Performance Awards, each 100$ (= 400).

= Total of 4800$

Variant 1- giving money for participation is something for a showmatch not a competition.

I would actually prefer, just a bump in 1st to 16th places and nothing else.

With performance awards- it is too subjective for my taste and quite a large chunk of money going away. We will need again polls for who to award this and I can bet those prizes will be given away mostly out of pity, player X, announces retirement after unexpected underperformance and everyone will say his game was the best with teary eyes. Giving money to best interview, meh... People have always done this as a community commitment and never have been rewarded with monetary reward, but now that we have cash we have the feeling of throwing it around like we own the place....

Map Wins seems more clear cut but in the end also seems like some consolidation prize.

I would really just like have a regular prize pool for all the best places players and some small prizes for some of the mid finish players 9-16th...

Probably a rather unpopular view...

if you consider Variant 1 + donation, only 200$ will go for the performance awards.

Can't it be possible to have a variant 1 with 200$ on performance but with 250$ instead of 200$ on the 9-16th placements ?

I feel like 200 is quite cheap (considering we have a 5000$ prizepool to distribute) and 300 is too much, which makes it hard to choose for me. I would've gone with a middleground with 250$ on 9th-16th. Any thoughts ?

Oh if it's only $200 altogether I feel less bugged about the performance/map score money giveaway. It's just that the awards in the list all come with $100 and $200 prize tags.

Variant 3 would me my favorite now but I would again rather tip the balance in favor of the 5th-8th place taking away from the 9th to 16th as the first is a vastly higher achievement to me.

I really don't like the performance awards but I feel like the community will strongly vote for that.

When koziol and meme were talking about this in their podcast, I felt something was just wrong especially in koziol's reasoning.

On the contrary to what koziol has been saying in there, I don't think it is "better for the competition" to have awards like "best frag" or whatever. A player should want to win every games, for that he has to think about the best plays possible. Most of the more amazing frags happen when players decide to make a gamble, especially in the case of trying to air rocket or whatever. When to be fair, the right choice would be to minimize the risks, hence prefer to switch to a more safe dps weapon given the circumstances or wait that a player has landed to fire a rocket at his feet or whatever.

I'm not saying it's gonna dumb down the level of competitiveness or whatever, but saying it will make players want to play better/make an incentive to play better is just completely wrong and irrelevant in my opinion.

tl;dr arguing for the sake of arguing :P

But still don't like these random subjective awards that have a high chance of getting into the hands of the player(s) with the biggest fanbase to begin with.

EDIT: meme, you might wanna edit the variation 3 where you say 600x4 = 2000 (2400 normally) ;). This got me extremely confused for a little while :P

tl;dr cooller will win all the awards

I think having 5 panels from the tournament to choose the special award winner is much better imo.

Might aswell make ESR bets on who's gonna get the best frag, the best interview and the best game.

Best interview: av3k
best frag: just a little tougher. I'll go with either cypher, cooller or fazz.

The whole idea with the extra prizes is nothing to do with giving an incentive to do such and such and it's a silly idea to think players are going to be consciously thinking about getting the best frag etc. They are fun things that will be (or should be) decided after the tournament.

Would like to see it being given to 'the board' to review rather than a poll though.

Then you're going in my way. It doesn't add anything to the competition. I'm not against performance prizes beeing awarded but 600$ on it feels like a whole lot used on subjective terms. It's not like there's gonna be a definite best frag or a definite best game. But the placements of the players however is going to be definite.

Which is why I came up with a middle ground variant proposition where we'd still allow 400$ on performance prizes. I'm all for compromises :D

400$ seems more than enough for performance prizes.

And I had the same thoughts, community will vote for the most popular player, not the "actually" best frag.

which is why it shouldn't be a poll (performance prizes)

Don't you think the map win awards are good to give an incentive even for those who know they won't win and reward good effort against the best players? While I don't want the 17th-32th players to win something without winning anything, I don't like the idea of all of them leaving with nothing at all.

if they are knocked out early they have all the time in the world to go buy al beer and stay up all night to get lucky...

but in a competition there are always losers, sure it feels bad but i hate treating the players like big man babies. bring your A game and win or go home.

Variant 4:

4800$ prizepool

600$ x 4 = 2400$ for 5th-8th

250$ x 8 = 2000$ for 9th-16th

100$ best frag
200$ best game
100$ most surprising performance



I would like something like this to vote for ;).

Most surprising performance? Positive only or the most outstanding from positive and negative combined?

Low seed making it to the semis or something is clearly positive.
Cooller losing all group matches might be seen as negative by some people and would be surprising I guess.

who'll pick the nominees for the awards? Frag or Match\game one might be troublesome

In fact can you please confirm (or deny) that any performance related prizes be judged by a panel of admins/players and not a poll!?

variant 1 + cooller award, awarded for being cooller

So no community prizes for 1st - 4th place? :(

I vote for variant 1 + Performance Awards.

Variant 5:
Gief me all money and i go naked on the grand final stage on decider map unplagging finalist keyboards screaming "FOR THE COMMUNITY!!!!!!"

I vote for this.

Definetly worth the money.

i vote for this, but with william wallace facepaint

only if evil is up in the final.

Variant 1, because I think we should have maximum incentive to fight for the highest placing possible. €750/€200 is a considerable difference really worth the effort. Not saying players won't give their best with the other options, but this seems more rewarding to me.

Wont participate cause as i already said, consider the special prizes too low, and while theres an option in the poll, i see most people is happy with $100 per prize. Millions of flies eat shit, that doesnt means shit is cool. And yes, im mad.

How much should special prizes be overall? That would define how much would go in normal prizes.

I think that close to 10%($1500) special prizes pot, 90% place based prizes would be ideal. $300 for each category, 4 strong categories (best comeback, best frag, best match and best unexpected performance), best match being 2x$300 cause theyre 2 players obv makes a total of $1500. $200 per prize i would be ok. But $100 for the best moments of a nearly $20.000 tournament, too cheap for my taste. Players will be more motivated to do cool stuff with juicy special prizes and specs will be more motivated to vote and feel part of the event, win win.

How about something like variant 1 but with prizemoney for those finishing 5th in their group? To keep some incentive for players to perform when they can no longer reach playoffs. They might otherwise not do their best in their last games which could alter the placings 1-4 in the groups.

I vote for variant 2.
I dont really like the performance award either.

Performance awards are a bad idea, imo.

"Best frag of the tournament" - players may go for luck shots, air rox, instead of playing 100%.
"Best comeback of the tournament" - stronger player, that is sure to advance to next tournament stage, can let weaker enemy take the lead, later have awesome comeback.
"Best game of the tournament" - most probably final or semifinals, so the extra money will go to the ones that will get biggest prizes.
"Best interview of the tournament" - rivalry between casters to interview players that have usually good interviews, making it best by skipping less shiny questions and so on.
Also who will decide this, people will have different opinions what play was the best and will argue about that.

I voted for Variant2, although i don't think Players should win a prize for finishing last in their group / losing every game.
Imho the best Solution would be to give a Prize only to the Players who finish 5th and 6th in their group (would be 17th to 24th).

Performance awards are fine.

I like the idea of rewarding the best comeback, unexpected games or the best one. Even the interview one seems funny enough. The best frag is a bit too subjective, though.

Most of the money is going to 5-16 anyway.

[+] for alliteration in the title!

seeing dem0n argueing just for his cause does not surprise me. I hope that the prizes will be distributed only up to the 16th place and dem0n will drop out in the group stages. this would be fucking hillarious!

So far 70 people have answered in the second poll. Here's the quick rundown of the most popular options at the moment. (I'll release full results in a few days to Memento and to anyone wanting them). Poll is still open, but not that many votes are coming in anymore.

How many players should be awarded?

5-16 - 70%

Give prizes for best performances?

Yes - 73 %

Who should decide the nominees for these?

Create a panel of 5 notable community persons attending DHW who pick the nominees, and then winners are voted by the community. - 44 %

What categories should be considered (top 3)?

Best comeback
Best frag
Biggest upset (for the player who did it)

How much money for the special awards (top 2)?

500$ - 29 %
400$ - 19 %

Should money be put aside for future tournaments?

All in - 87 %

Most popular donation model?

Spread between 5-16. Distributed so that 5-8 getting 100% more than 9-16. - 51 %

I would have preferred there was a big chunk taken for an award for best dreamhack movie, post event.

meh why give donations to noobs? make first prizes fatter, 10k first etc

if K1llsen wins, make him a titanium railgun model
if Cypher wins - rocket launcher. etc..
:D

Shouldn't the final categories/distribution model be announced before the tournament starts? Any word?

See this:
http://www.esreality.com/post/2517590/dreamha...s-outcome/

Put away these money for future dreamhack :)