Well with that smart gentleman naming the actual file you have to google to get a working hack, I might as well would at least mod the post and and warn him for unintentionally encouraging kids to download it.

It actually does contain instructions (assuming that the mentioned file that contains all the hacks exists). Apparently there's an executable for QL you can download and use which has all the hacks integrated. Just what potential hackers want to hear and know about. It would be better if id just censored the part where he unveiled the name of the hacked .exe

EDIT: not saying that the original post's OP is encouraging anyone to download it, but it provides enough information and kind of shows how easy it is to hack.

DAMN YOU CHEATERS!!!

Who knows? It might even be the hack's developer doing some advertisement.

4536

Linking people to cheats is actively encouraging their use.

You're making cheats more accessible for regular ESR user.

Makes me wonder what side you're on.

with that nickname and the fact that he registered today you don't even have to guess :D

43565

3464

what's a hitbox hack?

wtf??

and i highly doubt that's tn -20

:D
/devmap bloodrun; sv_cylinderScale 100
this is how its done

oic wat u did thar.

You are fucking stupid, Lam.

i like your use of "you're" - well done, sir.

So now we're actually complimenting people for using proper grammar, a thing that should be a standard?

positive reinforcement! apparently you didn't have a puppy growing up :(

you're probably right!

i really havent noticed any haxors but i dont play pubs

blaming me every tdm game i play against is just fun then?:>

hodenmann

lol ofc

if i / other admins on tdmpickup thought a regular was hacking we'd do something about it

Anyway: Who else has noticed the increase in cheating, specifically: less obvious aimbots, hitbox hax, and wall hacks?

wtf is a hitbox hax?

Read comments

Well yes, I saw that since then. You'll notice that both the duplicate question and the answer were posted after this post you replied to. Thanks anyway.

In that case, it appears my patronising comment was out of place. Terribly sorry sir, I really must learn to read comment datestamps.

how mad?

I've noticed a few suspicious players in Clan Arena. Created this month, hitting 50% LG and one player in particular won 95 out of 100 matches. I suppose he could be legitimate, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I know who it is that you're talking about.

The kid only has 2 binds, aside from fire, wasd and jump.

LG and Zoom.

I patiently await the zoom apocalypse.

ZOOMPOCALYPSE

Coming to theaters near you in Spring 2014

Also available in a limited-edition special behind-the-scenes look at zooming...

ZOOMPACALYPSE NOW: The Making of Hax

Directors Cut BluRay

nice thread, thx

rofl duel IRL anyone here?

1v1?

Thought so

As I also posted on this thread (which was later removed) I will state again, that I have yet have to see someone, who I would think is cheating. I've seen a lot of accusations and calling in threads, in game etc. But people have to remember that taking demos and sending them to id is a much more reliable indicator than "Botting on the rise".

4356

Are you european?

Again, I'm not denying it, I just write about my own experience, which differs from "cheaters on the rise". I don't know exactly, why they closed the thread, but it is also an experience, that gaming forums, especially the dev-forum don't like topics about cheats and hacks because this encourages/leads to people checking things out, while the devs are most of the time are aware of the problem.
Here I think, they currently are putting more work into getting the game running smoothly. But if they suddenly receive more demos of players cheating they may work faster on a solution against those things, because it becomes more urgent.

From my experience with cheaters in Q3, most of the people using cheats are just testing those (I mean just check out the Youtube vids, blatant aimbots etc). As they are so obvious, they will be banned pretty fast. Another thing is people using these things, because they suck/want to be better than they really are and don't want other people to know they are using cheats (because if everybody knows you are cheating, your accomplishments mean nothing). They try to hide it, and it becomes way harder to prove it. I guess they will implement some kind of basic checks in the quake launcher later on.

5346

You still haven't told us what a hitbox hack is though!

How would you know exactly, someone is cheating? If you know, it should be easy for you to send demos to id.

Imho it is pretty hard to prove someone is using a for example wallhack. I know way back in Q3 there were long threads with people watching demos in slowmo trying to prove this. You words sound like, you detect a cheater on the first 2 minutes, which would be either a pretty blatant cheater, or you are just really fast in thinking someone cheats. Remember there are lots of people out there who are pretty fast calling someone a cheater, just because they seem to think, their level is already the top.

The phenomenon goes like this:
1. Learn to play better
2. Discover someone that bots
3. Block said person and don't play them, report to id if you're really butthurt
4. Get over it and move on

tldr - nobody gives a fuck

If cheating doesn't exist, why are they removing the threads?

Also how naive do you have to be to think cheating does not exist.

Who said, cheating doesn't exist? Read the post again. And, as I said later, most forums of games themselfes have a pretty strict posting policy towards topics on cheating. They will probably delete most of it, not for denial purposes, but to stop giving people the idea to test them.

For example, you are just reading the forum for fun and read about a cheat. This will give some people the idea "lets test it" while, if they hadn't read about it in the first place, wouldn't even think about it. Sure there are players who are activly looking for cheats, but they do so regardless of forum posts.

Devs are aware of the fact that there are cheats out there and probably know alot more about them, than a normal player. They would be working on it, depending on the time they have and the seriousness of the matter. ATM their time will be probably pretty limited, but people can raise the seriousness, but not through the forum, because "cheaters are on the rise" is just a statement with no backup. Sending in demos will be a way more effective way and its different than just accusing players. Because now they can check for evidence and possibly monitor the account (I doubt that).

reported two guys with 60 + lg
they got banned no problem with that : )

60 lg is forbidden in bulgaria?

arent u banned for hacks

60 lg on a person who is trying to dodge and moving is strange dont you agree?

Not if you're tier 3.

Are you referencing yourself?

ive hit 60+ on players that are well known for 1v1 LG. im not saying i can do it every single time, but if you're talking single instances, that's absolutely nothing out of the ordinary for a good player every now and then.

profile accuracy is different.

ive also hit 54+ but im talking about maintaining such stats for a whole game,and when your speccing the guy you expect jumppad lg
e.g. Overkill but then you see he actually spams and uses it and ends up with 57 lets say

ZHU gets banned from ESR, recent spike in cheat accounts in quakelive!

God damnit could I at least accidentally plus a post that I understand? I don't even know who Zhu is.

At the top, press "text" and then "journals". You'll work it out pretty quickly.

publicizing the links to cheats isn't a bad thing, it makes it easier for id to stop them from working

\:D/

Yeah, because they surely get to know about cheats from ESR.

This thread comes up minutes after i got accused of cheat on a Freezetag pub, so my question is:
What is your ingame name?

Since no response im going to out the two candidates:

!!!!!indie

or

EDDA tntu

54654

And this thread is not noob rage? I mean, this is the wrong way to approach this matter if you are serious. I agree with you, but you are not opening for a discussion.

Bankz on american servers is hacking. I"m sure several have reported him.

I guess thats because all he did was rage to people and call them hacker if they would beat him on ztn.

hahaha, yeahhhhhh, it's pretty clear he's cheating from the evide...wait, what? no evidence? hmmmm...

It's a classic way of advertising cheats, they mask them in some sort of cheat complaint type post.

Like "cheating on the rise, just look at this link".

If you want to help prevent cheats, mail cheat info to support@quakelive.com

Also:

1. No one whose opinion matters believes that cheats don't exist. No proof of this is needed.

2. The QL team wants cheating to be kept non-public for obvious reasons that are apparently lost on "agent_smith". These reasons are:

2a. Most cheating accusations are false. A person's name shouldn't be tarnished and they shouldn't be harassed if they aren't doing anything wrong.

2b. Talk of hacks, especially specific ones encourages their use.

2c. By receiving information regarding hacks privately they can then attempt to address the problem, and the information does not get lost somewhere in the public sphere.

3. Cheating is still only done by a fraction of a percentage of the playerbase.

4. Calling out hackers online does nothing but make that hacker better disguise themselves, or if they're hacking for griefing purposes they've succeeded in griefing you. It also makes you look like an idiot imo for not understanding this. Instead record them, or spec and record and send in the demo to support.

2a - please don't try to 'sell' your personal opinion as established fact.

2c - this has not worked very well, has it?

3 - and personal opinion 'sold' as fact again.

We simply can not accurately determine how many people are cheating - we can only guess and these guesses might or might not be waaaaaaaaaaay off.

I: Personal experience does not mean a lot: You have never seen a cheater online - maybe you are just naive. You think everyone cheats - maybe you are just paranoid. Most probably your personal experience rather reflects on your character than on the amount of cheaters.

II: Apparently there are many different cheats available, that have been specifically created for this game. Thus there seems to be enough demand for cheats to support a variety of 'products'. However, we can't deduce the number of cheaters from this.

III: Given the assumption that QL players are not more honest than any other group of sportsmen, we could reach the conclusion that cheating in QL might be as least as common as in other sports. Unfortunately cheating (i.e doping) occurs much more frequently than one would like or expect - across almost all sports and skill levels.
Since the risks and costs of cheating in video games are insignificant when compared with the risks and costs of doping in conventional sports, I think that QL could have its fair share of cheaters (among the amateurs and among the pros).

2a - please don't try to 'sell' your personal opinion as established fact.

Most cheating accusations ARE false. I mean are you serious? Anyone over tier 2 has gotten a cheating accusation before. For the statement "most cheating accusations are false" not to be true you'd have to have something like 95 % of players cheating at one time or another. We would have a completely different game and gaming culture if that were the case.

2a also stated that a person shouldn't be harassed if they aren't doing anything wrong. You have something against that too?

2c - this has not worked very well, has it?

As opposed to what? Only the devs can take anti-cheat measures such as banning and coding anti-cheat features.

I mean what are you going to do, deltew or whoever comes in and is hardcore botting it. You're going to tell him to please not do that? Or whine about it on ESR? What's the point?

3 - and personal opinion 'sold' as fact again.

If it was 1%, then 1 in 100 players would be cheating. Does that sound reasonable to you?

We simply can not accurately determine how many people are cheating - we can only guess and these guesses might or might not be waaaaaaaaaaay off.

We can ballpark it though. It's not 0 % or 95+ %. I mean, get real.

II: Apparently there are many different cheats available, that have been specifically created for this game.

Cheats are always 'created' specific to a particular game. In rare cases the same game franchise might have the exact same vulnerability as to not break a given cheat, but this would be exceedingly rare.

Thus there seems to be enough demand for cheats to support a variety of 'products'.

Cheat authors make cheats as a hobby. They enjoy it. It's fun for them to try and circumvent security systems. They would make them even if no one used them. No demand necessary.

In cases where the game is very popular, and the demand is likely high they could consider selling them, and in some cases they do.

However, we can't deduce the number of cheaters from this.

No but it does tell us that it was at least >1 person at some point assuming the cheat worked, of which sometimes there is video proof.

III: Given the assumption that QL players are not more honest than any other group of sportsmen, we could reach the conclusion that cheating in QL might be as least as common as in other sports.

It's not just honesty. It's incentive. Players in major sports have much more to gain from winning than QL players do. So the incentive is greater there. However, the consequences for being caught are more severe.

There's also the nature of the cheat itself to consider. Downloading some programs and running them is a very different commitment than doing something like taking steroids.

Due to these complications, I wouldn't be so quick to make a commonality comparison this way.

Unfortunately cheating (i.e doping) occurs much more frequently than one would like or expect - across almost all sports and skill levels.
Since the risks and costs of cheating in video games are insignificant when compared with the risks and costs of doping in conventional sports, I think that QL could have its fair share of cheaters (among the amateurs and among the pros).

The consequences are less great, but so to are the incentives.

Cheat authors make cheats as a hobby. They enjoy it. It's fun for them to try and circumvent security systems. They would make them even if no one used them. No demand necessary.

In cases where the game is very popular, and the demand is likely high they could consider selling them, and in some cases they do.

I'm not sure about that, I know someone who is making a study/research currently about people/groups who make cheats/hacks for video games, and he opened a thread to ask and share informations, etc. What we found is much more than a hobby ROFL, there are out there companies, seriously. The point of the study is only "how much money" is involved though, we don't care about the rest, but so far, what I have read even though the study is far from finished is that there is people who do make money with cheats and that's a real motivation! And when I say "companies" I don't mean a guy making his stuffs in his bedroom, I meant a guy who really pays rents for instance and uses a real structure, like any serious entrepreneur does.

The consequences are less great, but so to are the incentives.

Yes you are right but I doubt that this is preventing people from cheating, when you see how people take this game seriously, when you see all the dramas, when you see how much time some people put... It's like what they can win or lose seem to be not as important as we might believe... I would just say that this is all a probability, we don't even know what's inside these people heads. Why do people make 200 aliases when it's written in the TOS that only 2 is allowed? You can't tell why exactly why each one of these people do that... it's insane.

I know, that there are company-like structures out there for creating cheats for some games (mainly bots for grinds etc in popular games). These cheats are created to "make" ingame-money for the user and as such they are more likely to pay real money for it.
I doubt, that creating cheats for QL will give a mentionable revenue of any kind. So in the end, it's just like Lorfa said, at least for Quake.

These cheats are not only created to make in-game money. It's not like Lorfa said really, because a company does not make necessarily cheats for only one game. That same company also does not only have one sort of activity. What is scary is that many "big" ones are not hiding, specially scary when you see that they have "less obscure" activities next to creating/selling cheats! This study that this person is doing is really interesting, it's more interesting than what the average gamer sees on forums "X BUSTED - DEMO AVAILABLE" etc. It's about a real business behind cheats and hacks, also it's not that easy to fight it because as you can see here http://worldofwarcraft.judgehype.com/news/bli...-bots-wow/ it took 2 years. Considering that there are little creators, etc, so different sizes of "business" I'd say, it's kind of useless for editors/publishers/studios etc to sue all of them, at least for now, the Law in many countries is still not enough developed to counter these people...

There is also some people close to that business (video games and cheat creation) who talked about some sort of laxity, some believed firmly that some editors don't care at all, if that is true (because for now there are many people who talk but I don't know how he verifies some sources for instance) then no wonder some people are motivated to make cheats. As a business man indeed where there is the most demand they will be interested, but about QL, seriously I wouldn't bet my hand that the demand is unimportant at all, haha. But that last point is just my personal opinion.

There are pay for hacks for QL.Most of them are privately distributed but you can find them on the google machin.

The hack in question was downloaded a total f 80 times and I believe 75 of those downloads were unique visits. These numbers are from one hack site where you have to be a member and then approved before you can even download anything (probation period).

There are 4-5 other sights where you can download the hack in question without having to be a site member.
Who knows how many people have downloaded it from these sites.

2a - Maybe I don't understand you correctly, but to me this argument sounds a lot like circular logic. Apart from that I played everything between T2 and T4 and never got accused - not once.

2c - If it doesn't work we need to find new solutions instead of saying "That's the only way".

I - Can you point out the difference between 'guessing' and 'ball-parking'? English is not my native language.

II - You are wrong about this one. There are several different kinds of cheats, which will work for several games (which share the same engine or API) and there are cheats that work for almost any shooter game.

The fact that these cheats are released to the public in user-friendly, easy to use packages does indeed suggest that these are 'products'. They might not be sold for money, but maybe the producers profit in some other way (e.g. fame, spread of malicious software, or just some elaborate form of trolling).

III - The incentive for some amateur marathon runner to do EPO or ASA are approximately the same as for your average quake player to install an humanized bot or wall hack. Both have no chances of ever winning anything important, yet they like to achieve better results than they could ever do on their own.

The incentive for professional athletes might be different because there is a lot of money involved. Nonetheless money most probably is not the main motivation for most professional athletes.

Also:
Please refrain from "I mean are you serious?" and "Get real" phrases. They do NOT add anything of value to your arguments.

2a - Maybe I don't understand you correctly, but to me this argument sounds a lot like circular logic. Apart from that I played everything between T2 and T4 and never got accused - not once.

You must have the chat off, are extremely lucky, or are dead last every game (but then how could you make T4?) I mean I know players who have been playing for 2 months that have gotten cheat accusations. It's ubiquitous.

I'm not sure what's circular about it, the sheer volume of cheating accusations could not possibly match the number of players actually cheating.

2c - If it doesn't work we need to find new solutions instead of saying "That's the only way".

If you have ideas, suggest them.

You'll have to be quite clever to come up with a solution when you cannot code for the game, or ban users.

I suppose you could attempt to find better tools for recognizing cheats, but ultimately the results would still have to go through the QL team for action.

I - Can you point out the difference between 'guessing' and 'ball-parking'? English is not my native language.

It's a slang that means to place limits on what a value could be when it is unknown.

It's like if I were to guess the temperature of where you live. I have no idea where you are, but I could place it within likely limits. Especially knowing that you're unlikely to be on fire at the moment, or submerged in liquid nitrogen.

II - You are wrong about this one. There are several different kinds of cheats, which will work for several games (which share the same engine or API) and there are cheats that work for almost any shooter game.

Can you give an example? I would think it rare that the amount of code changed between titles would be so little as not to break the current cheats for a game with similar internals.

Cheats that work for "almost any shooter game"? Please elaborate.

The fact that these cheats are released to the public in user-friendly, easy to use packages does indeed suggest that these are 'products'. They might not be sold for money, but maybe the producers profit in some other way (e.g. fame, spread of malicious software, or just some elaborate form of trolling).

There doesn't seem to be a lot of room for a cheat to not be user friendly. I mean it either works or it doesn't. Turn off, turn on a wallhack, turn off/on an aimbot. There are SDKs and such for things like installers.

My point was that a cheat's ease of use, or that it's regularly updated, or even that it exists at all isn't any indication of its demand. Cheat authors enjoy this stuff. If there's demand for what they do, even better. If there's enough demand to warrant sale, better still.

III - The incentive for some amateur marathon runner to do EPO or ASA are approximately the same as for your average quake player to install an humanized bot or wall hack. Both have no chances of ever winning anything important, yet they like to achieve better results than they could ever do on their own.

This is a rather loose analogy. With cheats in quake it's possible to control the outcome of the game entirely, even if the game itself is not an important one. Even daddy_ on here I believe defeated rapha on ztn with his hacks.

With something like a marathon runner, even if they roid it up to the max they have no guarantee that they will win, and most likely they will not unless they were already quite good in the first place.

A better analogy in the case of a marathon runner would be getting into a taxi and being let off somewhere near the finish line.

It's kind of apples and oranges though. The incentives are different for a hack that crushes the game utterly, and a hack that provides a small but enduring advantage, for winning an unimportant marathon, a major marathon, for winning an unimportant game of quake, and a game taking place in a major competition.

Please refrain from "I mean are you serious?" and "Get real" phrases. They do NOT add anything of value to your arguments.

Hard not to when you read something so absurd.

Me: "most cheating accusations in quake are false"

You: "you don't know that for sure!!@"

Me: "Are you serious?"

I mean that's the exact thing I hear in my mind upon reading that.

2a - "There is not a lot of cheating going on because almost all accusations are wrong because there is not a lot of cheating going on"?
This is how I understood your argument but maybe I am mistaken.

2c - I think that id has not reacted appropriately to cheating and other related topics. One might get the feeling that there is a lot of arbitrariness going on and that id doesn't really care.

I - well that's exactly what I meant when i said "guess". Unfortunately these processes are either extremely inaccurate or prone to error.

II - wireframe hacks, aimbots that do NOT use model/hitbox recognition
In some youtube videos you could see that the hacks for quake live had neat looking in-game menus with sliders which could control the various parameters of the cheat. People who develop for the sake of 'defeating a security system' usually don't create these things.

III - Daddy is a bad example, because odds are that his cheats in the game against rapha were extremely obvious. I think its safe to assume that the effectiveness of a cheat and it's risk of detection are generally proportional. Cheats which are easily detected are not the problem - e.g. everyone knows that daddys victory over rapha is ultimately meaningless.

EPO and ASA increase the physical performance of an athlete - aimbots increase the aiming performance of a gamer, wallhacks increase map awareness.
Getting into a taxi and riding to the finish line doesn't increase an existing performance - the quake equivalent would be tricking the server into thinking that the cheater made ten frags, that really never happened, just before the clock runs out.

So in conclusion I think the analogy between doping and toggling WH / humanized bots is a very fitting one and definitely better than the taxi thing. Of course the cheats can be set to 'ludicrous level' to almost guarantee a victory but they are easily spotted then and therefore not a problem.

2a - "There is not a lot of cheating going on because almost all accusations are wrong because there is not a lot of cheating going on"?
This is how I understood your argument but maybe I am mistaken.

The premise is that cheating accusations are ubiquitous and quotidian. They happen all the time, to just about everyone. Most people will tell you that this is the case, as it is their experience.

The majority of such accusations must be false, as there would have to be an insanely high percentage of cheating players for it to be true.

It's only a statement regarding some extreme end on the percentage of cheating players, and not a particularly controversial one.

I only brought it up because it's one reason behind why the QL team wants verifiable cheating accusations sent privately to support. Players should not be harassed if they are not doing anything wrong.

2c - I think that id has not reacted appropriately to cheating and other related topics. One might get the feeling that there is a lot of arbitrariness going on and that id doesn't really care.

How so? What do you want them to do differently? Keep in mind that they're a two-man team atm and can't just code anti-cheats all day.

I - well that's exactly what I meant when i said "guess". Unfortunately these processes are either extremely inaccurate or prone to error.

Not when you place limits on the extreme ends of things.

It's extremely unlikely that your temperature there is absolute zero as this is problematic from a physics standpoint, and since typing requires motion. It's also extremely unlikely to be as hot as 2 trillion degrees celsius there, as typing apparently requires stable matter.

If you want to ballpark the percentage of cheating players in quake live, you can be very certain it's not 0 %, or 100 %. Or do you not agree with even this?

If the percentage is greater than 50%, it means that in every game of quake live you play the odds are that either you are cheating, or your opponent(s) are cheating. Do you think this is likely to be the case?

II - wireframe hacks,

..and this would work for any fps game? Hmm, I suppose it would be possible to tamper with your graphics card drivers and say something like "render everything in wireframe". Not sure if this would necessarily result in transparent walls in any given game (although apparently it often does), or if the effect would end up being advantageous since it makes it difficult to see the game.

aimbots that do NOT use model/hitbox recognition

Then how would they know what to shoot at? What to shoot at seems pretty game specific.

In some youtube videos you could see that the hacks for quake live had neat looking in-game menus with sliders which could control the various parameters of the cheat. People who develop for the sake of 'defeating a security system' usually don't create these things.

Why not? You assume these menus are hard to make. Even writing my small mouse reader program I wanted to make a nice interface for it, and I wasn't planning on sending it to anyone. I would have if it was easy, or if I knew how.

Defeating a security system in software is probably much more difficult than making a menu.

III - Daddy is a bad example, because odds are that his cheats in the game against rapha were extremely obvious. I think its safe to assume that the effectiveness of a cheat and it's risk of detection are generally proportional. Cheats which are easily detected are not the problem - e.g. everyone knows that daddys victory over rapha is ultimately meaningless.

It doesn't have to be that way. All a cheating player has to do is keep cranking up their accuracy until it's sufficient to guarantee victory. In most cases it isn't necessary to be blatant about it.

Granted there is some proportion there, but it's still very possible to be both extremely effective and not obvious.

So in conclusion I think the analogy between doping and toggling WH / humanized bots is a very fitting one

The line between what is augmenting existing attributes and what is providing an advantage where one did not exist before is quite arbitrary.

2a - I'll skip because that is leading nowhere. We will have to agree to disagree.
2c - A nice start would have been not to unban one of the most prominent cheaters of QL history, just because they think he's a cool dude.

Way to prove my point with your temperature example of 0K and ridiculous high temperature: thats worthless information. You either place the limits ridiculously wide (=inaccurate) or you run a huge risk of placing them too small.

II - Wireframe Hacks and similar will work for most games which share an API. I could name examples but that wouldn't be very smart...

Basically these aim-bots scan for color - no need to count polygons or vertices ...

"You assume these menus are hard to make." - No I don't. Menus and GUI are often the easiest part - but also the most tedious one. That's why somebody who is just looking to break into a system wouldn't be bothered. After all they are named 'USER' interfaces for a reason - not developer interfaces...

III - All a doping athlete has to do is keep cranking up their dose until it's sufficient to guarantee victory. In most cases it isn't necessary to be blatant about it. No difference at all.

2c - A nice start would have been not to unban one of the most prominent cheaters of QL history, just because they think he's a cool dude.

er, who was this? ZeroQL?

Way to prove my point with your temperature example of 0K and ridiculous high temperature: thats worthless information. You either place the limits ridiculously wide (=inaccurate) or you run a huge risk of placing them too small.

You'd see though that it's not crazy to place borders on the percentage of cheats in QL.

0.00001% would be 1 in 100,000 players (probably sufficient to encompass all of QL's user base), and there is sure to be more than 1 cheating player in the history of the game. If it's over 50 %, then in any game of QL (which is 2 or more players) the odds are that a cheating player was present. That's definitely an extreme end of things.

So you can narrow it down, until the certainty dips below a certain amount. I think one can definitely do better than between 0.00001% and 50%, of which there is still a great deal of certainty.

Note: A cheating player with multiple accounts could obscure statistics in favor of hacking being more prevalent.

No I don't. Menus and GUI are often the easiest part - but also the most tedious one. That's why somebody who is just looking to break into a system wouldn't be bothered. After all they are named 'USER' interfaces for a reason - not developer interfaces...

I don't think it's necessarily true, but w/e.

III - All a doping athlete has to do is keep cranking up their dose until it's sufficient to guarantee victory. In most cases it isn't necessary to be blatant about it. No difference at all.

I disagree. Without any hard work, and/or a natural body type for the sport I don't think they could guarantee victory by doping, regardless of how much they took.

yes, ZeroQL.

...

without any hard work and/or some natural talent you can't guarantee victory by wallhack/aimbot either - at least not without being super obvious.

unless u go full

Any of yiu have a link to daddy cheating against rapha? Very interesting to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yu9hE2wDHM

> Anyone over tier 2 has gotten a cheating accusation before.

I recently got bumped to tier 4 after some time in tier 3.

No one ever told me I'm a cheater.

Merry fucking christmas to me.

=(

Go play a match of FFA or two then.

I tried that shit, once.

The chatbox looked worse than CA chat. I didn't even know that was possible.

People chat in FFA? :E

I don't know if it was normal, or not. Like I said, I only tried it once(that I can ever recall, anyway).

Fuckers arguing about cheating and who banged whose mother and whose mother is fat and bla bla bla /quit

I rarely ever play FFA but pretty much every time I do there are cheating accusations (usually about me).

Fucking tierslammer yo mom is so fat and u cheat and my dad is better!. : ))))))))
:(

ahmm... /disconnect. ;)

1. Clearly. But censoring discussion about cheating serves to make many naive people think cheating doesn't exist.

2a. No one was named in my thread, no one was named in the deleted thread, so this is an irrelevant point.

2b. The onus of stopping hacks is on Id. Trying to control the spread of information will always prove fruitless. In the computer security sphere, when an exploit is discovered it usually gets reported to the developer first to give them a head start, but details of the exploit are always made public shortly thereafter.

2c. There are undetected hacks that have been available on public sites for many months. I'm sure they've received plenty of information on these hacks already... The point is they haven't implemented anything to address it or even acknowledged to anyone that a fix is in the works.

3. Not sure how that's relevant or what would make you think I (or anyone else) implied otherwise.

4. The most annoying hack users are the ones who are cheating covertly to create the false impression of being good. These people actually do care about the reputation associated with their avatar, and they're not using throwaway accounts. Even if they're playing for griefing purposes, they want people to think they're legitimately owning, not hacking. Deleting these accounts will put an end to the ego trip, but that still does nothing to actually block hacks.

Some hack users are purely trolling, and they're using throwaway accounts. If they're doing it for griefing purposes, then they'll get their satisfaction during the game. I doubt they care much about forums.

And then there are the hack developers, some of whom probably do get enjoyment from reading complaints on forums. Rather than trying to hide the truth to prevent hack developers from gleaning any satisfaction, I'm more interested in seeing the issue confronted head on, as it normally would be in the computer security field.

1. Clearly. But censoring discussion about cheating serves to make many naive people think cheating doesn't exist.

I have never actually heard someone say "cheating doesn't exist" in any game that I've played. Even so, it's a better attitude to have than thinking cheating is everywhere if it isn't true.

Like I said, when it comes to the people whose opinion matters, they know that cheating exists.

2b. The onus of stopping hacks is on Id. Trying to control the spread of information will always prove fruitless. In the computer security sphere, when an exploit is discovered it usually gets reported to the developer first to give them a head start, but details of the exploit are always made public shortly thereafter.

If it's someone like google, and you find an exploit in chrome you can twist their arm to fix the exploit because they have the resources to do it.

QL has limited resources. By publishing information on exploits you are helping to spread cheats.

2c. There are undetected hacks that have been available on public sites for many months. I'm sure they've received plenty of information on these hacks already... The point is they haven't implemented anything to address it or even acknowledged to anyone that a fix is in the works.

This information can be used to the advantage of cheat authors, and really you don't need to know it anyways.

Again it would be raising awareness to say something like "you know that one cheat that's going around, well we're working on fixing it". Ah, now we know there's a working cheat out and should go get it before it's fixed.

3. Not sure how that's relevant or what would make you think I (or anyone else) implied otherwise.

You'd be surprised how many players think that cheating is ultra rampant and that hackers are in every single one of their games, or want to believe it because they suck.

And then there are the hack developers, some of whom probably do get enjoyment from reading complaints on forums. Rather than trying to hide the truth to prevent hack developers from gleaning any satisfaction, I'm more interested in seeing the issue confronted head on, as it normally would be in the computer security field.

Ok, but the QL team is not Oracle or Microsoft. They have to balance their limited time carefully.

It would be nice if Id invested more into QL, hired more developers and had the resources such that you could expect a quick fix on exploits, and it would be nice if the project generated enough money to warrant such an investment. The reality is different though. Raising public awareness about hacks/cheats doesn't help, it hinders. Such information should only go to the devs.

I have never actually heard someone say "cheating doesn't exist" in any game that I've played. Even so, it's a better attitude to have than thinking cheating is everywhere if it isn't true.

There are plenty of QL players who believe that cheating in QL was pretty much squashed a few years ago and, for the most part, no longer exists. Others think that any cheating will be obvious to them (as it was in the Q3 days) and all other accusations must be baseless. I guess recoiling into denial is a pretty standard defense mechanism for a lot of people, but we don't need to turn this into a discussion about psychology.

Like I said, when it comes to the people whose opinion matters, they know that cheating exists.

I tried to skip over this assertion the first time you made it, but since you bring it up again, I have to ask -- why are you the arbiter of whose opinion matters? It's rather subjective, no? If enough users, paying or otherwise, are in denial or apathetic about this issue, then there will be less pressure on Id to do something about it. If you believe Id is already doing as much as is reasonably possible to address it, then I guess that's one point where we definitely disagree.

This information can be used to the advantage of cheat authors, and really you don't need to know it anyways.

Well, that puts your opinion and Id's apparent policy well outside of the norms in computer security. It's unheard of for a software exploit to be publicly available for 5 months and for it to not even be acknowledged by the software vendor. I'm talking specifically about a very readily available hack, not some of the less known, more secretive, or even custom hacks that also exist. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a credible large company or small open source project out there that places whatever minuscule benefit might be realized by "keeping a lid on things" over the benefits of transparency.

Again it would be raising awareness to say something like "you know that one cheat that's going around, well we're working on fixing it". Ah, now we know there's a working cheat out and should go get it before it's fixed.

That point of view relies on the assumption that there are a lot of people who would want to cheat, but just never bothered to google it before. I think the more likely reality is that those who are inclined to cheat already know cheats are publicly available, and those who aren't inclined to cheat aren't going to suddenly look it up.

You'd be surprised how many players think that cheating is ultra rampant and that hackers are in every single one of their games, or want to believe it because they suck.

That's true, but the type of cheating I'm talking about is happening in the higher end of T4, not on noob servers.

It would be nice if Id invested more into QL, hired more developers and had the resources such that you could expect a quick fix on exploits, and it would be nice if the project generated enough money to warrant such an investment. The reality is different though.

I'm not convinced the business model has ever been the right approach with QL, but that's not really my problem. The recent (mis)handling of dropping of platform support reinforces the perception of a poorly run business, though. That they think they can just walk off with peoples' money (mac users) and not offer a refund is reprehensible, and, in my opinion, would not withstand a legal challenge.

There are plenty of QL players who believe that cheating in QL was pretty much squashed a few years ago and, for the most part, no longer exists. Others think that any cheating will be obvious to them (as it was in the Q3 days) and all other accusations must be baseless. I guess recoiling into denial is a pretty standard defense mechanism for a lot of people, but we don't need to turn this into a discussion about psychology.

Is this a problem? Wouldn't it better that they not be paranoid about cheats? What is wrong with them believing they don't exist?

I tried to skip over this assertion the first time you made it, but since you bring it up again, I have to ask -- why are you the arbiter of whose opinion matters? It's rather subjective, no? If enough users, paying or otherwise, are in denial or apathetic about this issue, then there will be less pressure on Id to do something about it.

You're betting that they can and will fix a given exploit, and while it's not fixed you continue to have the number of users taking advantage of it grow, making for a worse game environment.

If you believe Id is already doing as much as is reasonably possible to address it, then I guess that's one point where we definitely disagree.

I'd say that it's a distinct possibility that they are doing as much as is reasonably possible for them. It's very much worth considering.

Well, that puts your opinion and Id's apparent policy well outside of the norms in computer security.

Yes! Because they are quite different! Cheats in an online video game are not typical computer security issues.

That point of view relies on the assumption that there are a lot of people who would want to cheat, but just never bothered to google it before. I think the more likely reality is that those who are inclined to cheat already know cheats are publicly available, and those who aren't inclined to cheat aren't going to suddenly look it up.

It's more like you get someone who is on the fence about cheating, or would cheat if they thought it was simple+easy, and you give them that extra push they need to actually do it.

That's true, but the type of cheating I'm talking about is happening in the higher end of T4, not on noob servers.

Sadly strong players are not immune to cheat paranoia, or from making excuses to save their ego.

I'm not convinced the business model has ever been the right approach with QL, but that's not really my problem. The recent (mis)handling of dropping of platform support reinforces the perception of a poorly run business, though. That they think they can just walk off with peoples' money (mac users) and not offer a refund is reprehensible, and, in my opinion, would not withstand a legal challenge.

Sensible criticism, I just don't know what to do about it. I do know that advertising cheats isn't helping though.

sounds like alot of madz in this thread....get better play more FFA to tweak your movement and play more CA to tweak your aim...stop crying

i got more newbies banned than some of u got frags, its frightening to see how bad judgements are overall - and even more so how bad the opinion is about being able to detect one. anonymous posts are lol anyway :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6_ZTdHaV8o

+zoo is banned

happy holidays!

In educational purposes the test subjects are aware and accept what is going on, and they would expect that something fishy would happen. This situation is not the case for the idiots that abuses hacks that others have written and ruins everyone's joy of playing a game. So there is nothing to think about.

Just caught 2 faggots.

One account from 2009 sorry buddy lol

other one from 2013.

fascinating

Of course they don't want your post in the official forums, as everyone has pointed out, your post gives a direct link to the hack itself, which would probably encourage at least a few players to use it. And I think at the moment, id are fighting a pretty hard battle to convince everyone that Quake live isn't presently broken and in a pretty bad state.
Hacks have been out of control for ages, the anticheat obviously hasn't worked in a long time. I really hope there's some opportunity for them in the near future to update/fix it.

To be honest it isn't rampant by any means, furthermore personally I have seen at most three ever, but the sole reason why it isn't is the game's unpopularity, not that id did something to deal with cheating.

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/statistics/musashi like this is god? or its cheater^

musashi is the same person as cr4wl3r.

he is also:
BashBrotherNr1
benbobster
Muhahauhahahahah (or something)
whatdoicare
deleveled

a lot of his wins are joining he winning team and playing on when teams are uneven (tho he asks opponents to be idle if its the other way around :P)

he's good tho, ill give him that :)

I knew it! :D

It's like he uses different accounts for different moods...

But about these different accounts, he sort of admitted because he told me once that most of his accounts were in the top 20 even one was top 1 in Germany a long long time ago iirc, and that it's easy for him to get there :).

i don't know what his deal is tbh, but for someone who claims he has a girlfriend and child, he sure has A LOT of time for quake =)

I have a wife*, child and a 2nd child is on the way. :)

I have my own company which is doing very well, allowing me the luxury of working around 3 hours a day (or however much I please), leaving me with a lot of time for family, traveling, quake etc. :)

I don't understand something, why do you use different aliases? Do I upset you if I ask this question, lol? I don't try to harm, to judge, to say that you are weird, a "nolife", someone who lies, who cheats etc, I'm only interested in ONE thing: why many accounts? My question might seem stupid but oh well...

Congrats with your kid and company.

Oh, no problem, you can ask. I don't really expect anyone to understand or like the reasons for why I change accounts. And I'm not concerned with people calling me "names" or judging me, so no worries. :)

The reasons vary, it's nothing really tangible, for example: When my daughter was born I took a break from quake and when I came back I picked a new nick. Or after another few months break I came back and started with a new nick. Then several nicks are just the result of me and a few friends 'fooling around' and making similar nicks to eachother, kind of like a 'clan' without having a clan tag. Or another account I created when I started with a completely new setup (config/mouse), just to get into the groove with it and ended up sticking with it for no particular reason...

Stuff like that. I'm not attached to any of my accounts (or their stats), so I have no problem leaving them behind. :) I have sent an e-mail to QL in the past to actually delete some of my older ones, but they didnt respond. I never bothered to stay on it though...

thx, downloaded
now i rape everyone hehe )

You admitted! Ban!

me 2! best thread eva!

you downloaded it earlier and didnt share the link like this kind guy :( fu!

please put the link back and take a clan (((

I havent noticed anyone cheating with the new standalone client.

But the paranoia is beeing feed for sure.
I got send to spec yesterday and team locked because a guy named porsche was sure I was wallhacking..

sickening to see that theres a new cheat been released (do some research and you will see). these retards on cheater forums are like a self-help group, one of the most cringeworthy things to read for sure.

I think most of the guys just switched to a g9x.

or let their brothers play

http://esreality.com/post/2460576/re-why-is-r...pid2460576

posting in an agent_smith thread

not seen a cheater in quite a while. is it cuz im on high tier servers or what?

might be more of a problem for the casuals by the sound of it.

inb4 all cheaters like zeroql get a second chance at a game they knowingly cheated at.

what about the guys that cheated unknowingly? do they get a second chance too?

"oh I'm sorry I never knew that I downloaded that cheat that makes me aim better than everyone else."

Yea?

when will sync or sponge be back?
the two faggots i caught are still playing.

Last year was the same iirc, cheaters were in heaven during Xmas and new year's eve period, I guess everyone deserves a gift.

fascinating

http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/eggtrn
;)

Swiss flag all the time...

So ins is a stat padder :<

In the USA - Dynamicmode clearly cheats. Everyone knows this. He doesnt even attempt to hide that he's walling.

too bad threads like these are pointless as cheaters will just create account after account

Yes it makes me miss COD, CS somehow.

When cheaters are busted what I love the most is knowing that they're gonna have to spend money on new CD keys or steam accounts (doesn't always work though :D).
Then when they don't have cd keys anymore because they don't have money anymore they try to steal keys and accounts it's so pathetic.

Also the fun part is when they lie about their identity, excepted that their IP or MAC etc match with all the keys/guid they used to cheat :D.

:D

my mind always go to NA scene when i see these threads so detached from reality lol

I was under the impression Europe had more of a cheating problem than we did :/.

i'm not playing that much lately but i very very very very very rarely meet cheaters, and very rarely did so when i played a lot more. I think mostly we had a fistfull of retards who kept cheating (i remember a tard from germany who always w-hacked in the early mornings for an hour or so. But he was bad anyway) But I haven't seen him in like 8 months or so... Or sometimes you happen to meet daddy but no big deal, there's the kick if ppl are smart enough or just changing server it's easy and fast.
Thread like this one really look to me very distant from reality, and reality is: they even ban ppl who didn't hack.. Can you imagine proper hackers :D

I know the player base is small, but I remember in January 2013 I think or February I forgot exactly which month, but every day during at least 2 weeks there were 2 guys playing together they had wh, and the accounts were getting banned within 12 hours. They used to play very early in the morning (or late after midnight), and sometimes SyncError was joining the servers they were playing on, and I even saw their account getting disconnected live and banned in the same time :D was funny. But this during 2 weeks straight when I was off from uni, and I don't know when you play, but do you play around 4/5/6 am often (Milan/Paris/Berlin)?


Edit: 2013* I meant :D

i did till 4 months ago or so, we are talking about the very same guys anyway. HAven't seen em in 8 months

Yes, but 2 guys making 2 accounts/day during 14 days will look like a lot of cheaters for people who don't understand that it's the same persons. Same with Daddy when I used to see him with a new account lol. I'm sure many people don't know it's the same person. So you can say that everything is detached from reality, and that what people think is far from what's actually happening, but if I didn't even take a few minutes to check myself I wouldn't even know what is up, and I'm pretty sure people who just log in and start a game without caring about anything at all don't care about these details. You can't blame them anyway. However when someone comes here and say that the number of cheaters is higher, like this thread's OP, you can explain what's going on in reality :).

we havent seen u either

Strange because.... first game when I installed the stand alone is versus someone who cheats like crazy.

It kinda takes the fun out of the game....... I think that out of my last 50 games at least 35 were vs cheats....

looked what you usually play, you only play Duel on a decent level so the ppl we play against\with are very different

That you had to look up that I am a duel player is kind of sad :(

But anyway... what do you play then? If cheating according to you is not a problem....

random ca\ffa, low duel,some tdm pickups

well I don't play tdm pickups anymore... maybe that would be fun.
But ye CA isn't my thing... and FFA well.... depends on the skill level ;)

Not sad if hes not a fan of yours. You only seem to pop up so often.

Id be willing to bet most new people dont know you untill a timenudge thread comes up.

Having said that, it would be sad if I had to look it up, as i follow u. Cheers!

The same thing happened to me. I think we agree on something here,Weird. Happy new years. ~+!!!!!!

Maybe we'll even manage to agree on other things in 2014! ;p

Happy new year ;)

im not a cheater (((

theres always been a fair amount of cheats in public QL. unfortunately thats just the way it is with a free game that is so easily cheated.

it sucks, but cheaters are everywhere in life, not just quake.

no point getting in a tizzy about it here. play the game, if you lose because you thought it was a cheater, oh well.

it probably wasn't, but you don't need to know if it was or not to evaluate yourself and see what you could've done better. thats the real goal, isnt it?!

Yes exactly.

The real question is...

















































































...where is RayTheNoob?

...and WillHeBlend?

NERDS. Get a live or play Q3... Who cares QL is dead!

hi vega ))

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/beksteen

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/meph1stio

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/m3phistio

Mephistio is daddy :-[

Let him alone danny :-(

hey n00kie ........

wait for it ...

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/xenium

edit: here we go again

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/d1xt

TBH i haven't seen a clean decent player in a pubserver for 3 years lmao.

That's cus you play Tier 2 bruv

silencep knows a little too much in duels online... guess it doesnt matter since he's shiterror's european pet

#jews #masons #hitlercouldberightafterall

#illuminati #420blazeit #fazeclan #rekt

There are a lot of hacks on the west coast in CA servers. Most of them are obvious shitties. Maybe I should bother to report them, would anything be done? Probably not.

http://www.quakelive.com/#!support

quakelive@support.com

they even thank you for puting effort into keepin the game clean from hackers.
just record demo, report it and some days later he is banned (if people at id identify him as a cheater).
did it just once, but it worked.

Derp

Are you talking about mar? Just looks like decent shaft.

Yeah, you're probably right. Must be my paranoia.

Just realized you are mar, derp. So you are talking about unholy? I see one nice rail then he misses an easy rail and then hits 2 standard rails. Nothing suspicious IMO.

Missing easy shots -> can't be a hacker.

I'm not implying that just because he misses the easy shots he isn't a hacker. I just don't see anything that screams aimbot.

ahah this thread still going....

I'm flipping scum patties!!

ORDER UP!! MEDIUM RAPED!

hey
uh
hi