THE HIGHER YOU BAKE THE LONGER IT WILL TAKE

well... so far so good. more than i expected.

guess he didn't try militia

edit: 2gd was like fuck militia

quite a long way to go it seems.... would be interresting to see which way they are going.

insightful

well I'm not a big fan of criticizing things which are being worked on.
At least not publically.... and I'm not gonna spurt out random ideas on what should be added untill they added everything they wanted to.

I mean I'm a software developer.... I know how anoying those things can be if you already have a good design in mind.

delightful

delicious

Fuckable

-I like the idea he's going with in terms of different classes not inherently battling each other. You could have the "best" class or whatnot suited for dueling, a class that's best for a flag based gametype, a class for a domination style, etc.

-I really liked the look of that map editor, and in fact, when I was curious about map-making I really wished that it was as his is; a streamlined "minecraft"-esque style "game" within the other game is quite optimal since they're going for a community based concept.

-I am, however, not entirely sure about the "far off dream" of having people edit the physics and graphics and such. Perhaps it's because I came to the game of Quake 3 and its community at a time where there's 9000 different mods for Quake 3 and only 10 people playing each of them that gives me a sour taste in my mouth..

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW YYYYYYYIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Go the distance.

non?

nan?

nun?

nice and organized desktop :>

classes would be cool if it were sort of like the original hockey for nintendo... skinny power forwards with great speed but not much physical power... mid range balance of power/speed... defense... fat fucks that cant move but can slap the shit out of a puck.

wow yeah thats fucking original! the classes with limited weaponry really turns me off, and that's coming from someone who played qwtf for years

that desktop shows the project is in good hands

when I saw it I was like 'shiiiiiiiiiiiiet... folders, dude?'

Honestly, I think a person's desktop says a lot about their habits ;)

Or spare/idle time...

Dunno about that. I used to have a desktop like that, now I have it organized. Meanwhile, I haven't changed a bit.

were u always a cunt heehehehehe

-destroyer. You forgot the second part.

from the bottom of my heart i hope this project succeeds and it's a game that i will find entertaining, but i am super skeptical right now :/ (half-way in the vid)

nice skybox

11 euros m8

YOUR SO CHEAP JAMES, YOUR SO CHEAP

Why show a bit of movement/physics in editor saying after there wouldn't strafe jumps?

I think he did say something to effect of this not being the finalized physics, and he just wanted something familiar to jump around with.

No strafe jumps? oh my.. there is a fail right there. James, fps genre demands strafe jumping and nothing else!

watch the video posted below, it will have multiple physics/weapon builds incl. one with strafejumping

Thanks, I was looking for this.

Now that is interesting

I wonder what other movement system you can create apart from strafe jumping, cpm and unreal to be fun to play with?

Otherwise it'll be similar to the movement mentioned above

maybe something thats not based on bug in game engine?

that would bo so awesome.



warsow new movement can be fun and demanding , without having to press 12 buttong at once

so... Reborn is minecraft 2?

HYYYYYYYPE! Take that Notch.

[+]

Well i'm watching that vid and basically what jump in front of me is despite what 2gd says about ut, hes basically mixing quake + UT philosophy (especially for the community made things, i mean UT editor kinda invented/made that popular...).

Also, haters gonna not hate already:

2GD didn't say :

-" We are working on the game full time now, plus we changed 3 times engine and now we are on UNREAL engine".

Let the hate begins haha

what. this is our own engine! i hate UDK, the mouse inputs feel like dogshit

Let the strength be with you :) like to see more cubes and any sort of trashtalk about the future fps dominance)

gogo James! I am thinking about marriage and kids. You can save me with reborn. But please, be a bit faster, I am not almighty...

am trying Gaurd,

I think the next phase is, get a website up first. followed by a reborn show every 2 weeks showing progress and allowing the community to give feedback. and even contribute assets to help the game progress.

great news saver!

this all looks like a dream, is it a dream?

How long did you hold out before getting married and having kids?

did you say at the beginning of the video u were using unreal engine?

You said like:" we went through 3 diff. engine: xxx (i don't remember), then source and now unreal engine".
Or did you meant only the map editor things?

probably when i said OUR OWN Engine, you heard UNREAL engine. I would never use UDK,

Possibly then as i just woke up at that time =) .

So, restrain your hate for laters, fellas !

maybe join forces with http://reflexfps.com/ ? :>

reflex is cpm standalone first of all - so you won't offer them movement physix model for instance

I don't know anything abour Reborn. Will it be like vQ3?

imo it will be just better to get 1 good product instead of 2 poor games...

Sure it would be better, but as I see 2gd is trying to alter things more atleast as he said, reflex team is focused to port cpm as a first objective and I'm sure both teams are not interested to change their main idea or even negotiate about it... so we'll have to wait twice longer for both projects and donate both of them)

What you're saying is wrong, sorry.

I can be wrong in part of reflex as cpm port (though newborn said that roughly you can say so), besides there's no my thoughts on that topic all was taken from their posts... If you have some insight on their collaboration - feel free to put some light on.

die.

die in carfire polak

really stupid to see smth like this from other polak...

What did you expect from a polak?

Can you please just give us an honest rough estimate of when we can expect to finally be able to play it? 12 months? more? maybe less =p?

Rough estimate: When it's done.

Blizzard used to say that. Until SC2.

Then the slide started. SC2 into D3 into HOTS into HS...

Progressively more horrid community features, more pay to win, much much easier general play...

When it's done is good, as long as you stick to it.

Man, you don't even play those games do you?

I had to rewind the video there to hear it again cuz first I too heard "unreal" instead of "our own". :D

He said "our own engine", indeed. :)

yes, i re listened and i, this time, indeed understood "our own" =) .

That's what happen when u just woke up and with James accent =) .
Mea culpa.

I wish he talked more about the core concept of the game, which he seems to have a strong idea about, rather than all the other stuff that he admits are going to change every week.

For instance I'm really intrigued by the whole class thing, especially considering it will be a bit like boxing in the sense it will be only light robots fighting light robots and heavy robots fighting heavy robots. Does that mean that there will be different duel leagues/ladder for each type of robots (again like boxing) or that duel will be only playable with one type of robots ?

And for team games it's even more confusing, will it be only 4 of the same type against 4 of the same type ? Will it be some kind of fixed roster where you need to have 2 heavy, 1 medium and 1 light ? Or will it be completely free where you could have a matchup of 4 heavy robots against 4 light robots ?

But maybe, even this aspect is far from being definitive, I don't really know.

Ye, the classes is something I'm a bit sceptical about.
Might make things a bit more complicated then it have to be, but I guess i will have to wait for more details and see. :)

Yeah sure,

Firstly I should mentioned I'm quite relieved to be able to show something. the longer the project stays hidden the worse it is for me to manage. My style has never been to hide & hype. but unfortunately I didn't think I would be able to make this game without some sort of careful planning with money & pr, and since I have been talking to investors for over 12 months now, I had to keep it on the low down to make sure they were happy. it's only recently I've realized I don't want investment... so its best just to do it the GD Studio way. Also firefrog the coder has shown how resourceful he can be. also my design methods and core features are I feel very in tune with what can be feasible for a 'indie studio', if we can even call ourselves that. I feel we are just dudes messing with code atm :) but at least we are rolling.

To address the question about classes. the reason I've decided to do multiple robots is because one game play will not appease everyone. there are many different type of FPS gamers out there. and even if some are small in community size, I feel they should benefit from a game that has features that help grow and keep the community active (tournament systems, match making etc).

The important thing to note about the different robots are. some may be familiar in feeling to what you know now. but the features around the game play you get will hopefully give you a fuller experience. some robots will be fresher and hopefully more innovative than what you have played previously. each robot though should be unique to the next. it's also important the mainstream gamer gets a easier to play robot to start with, and later gain access to more complex movement methods later on. Robot 1 could be considered more of a training robot per say. (don't take any of what i say btw as solid, until we like what we got, these are just threads of interest i am following)

Multiple robots has another advantage. firstly each robot will become X popular compared to the other in playtime by the community. this will allow me to decide where I could support the game in eSports. do we go to DreamHack with 1 robot competitions for duel. or do we go to DreamHack for 2 competitions in 2 robots (both in duels or 1 in duel + one in ctf or anther team game mode). or do we do a format where each pro has to compete over various robots? this is certainly not known yet, but the community will ultimately decide.

Also as fox, fazz and myself design, I've allowed each of us to design their own robot without need to appease the other designers. this way each designer can follow their own interests. and we can check on each others progress and hopefully pull together the best bits. since Fox and Fazz are busy multitasking jobs/studies plus reborn, this allows game development to be a bit faster. Firefrog can implement their design ideas when they are ready to submit requests in physics/gameplay etc.

Ultimately this is designed to revive the competitive FPS 1v1 scene. but to do so the biggest challenge is to break into the mainstream. to enjoy being a pro gamer, you want enough prize money and a big enough fan base. so my first goal is to work with the current eSport communities. and then see if we can do a good enough job that new fps gamers will play the game.

If successful, Reborn could sit there with Dota2. SC2 & CS:GO on the eSport circuit. plus... we might just have a kickass game to play each evening.

So I really appreciate the kind words, interest and support. And I hope we can work together to take Action fps to the next level. because it certainly stopped after q3...

I'm not really sure you can pull it off without any emphasis on teammodes.
I mean yeah, 1v1 is absolutely great but I don't believe it's so comfortable for newcomers. SC2 has pretty much the same problem, they call it ''ladder anxiety''

Anyway I wish you the best of luck.

add clan arena, problem solved :P

It also needs to reflect on a casual market as well, Teamgames and a 1v1 modes is a good idea, but also an FFA mode should be on there as well because for one reason a lot of the old school Quakers (or gamers, whatever FPS they come from) would start from an FFA environment and then they learn all the basics of the game and then wether there be ready to play lets say Duel, or TDM/CTF of some sort they would know how the game would actually feel like once they play it once.

After seeing the latest video, I have to say I want to see duel and one team mode in CTF or TDM. Nothing more. It's detrimental to make a game purposed with the ambition of E-Sports around any casual concepts. It's long overdue for entitled gamers to get over their casual fears and accept to play games for fun, and that there is going to be a winner and a loser, and there is always going to be someone better.

Thanks for the in depth answer, I think I understand a bit more what you are trying to do.

Anyway, I really liked the work you did for Bloodline Champions and I agree with most of your thoughts about esports and how to bring back fast paced fps in it so I'll definitely give Reborn a shot, no matter what the final product might be.

I had this idea for duel games where there are multiple characters to choose from kind of like fighting games. Characters can have different weapons. Say one has a rail that does 50 dmg but has an lg with a longer range. Then another has rockets that travel much slower but has a faster rate of fire for a shotgun. Or one has an ability for rail jumping.

kickstarter.. we want to give you some money...

My only thing would be to say that I dont think you can dumb it down enough. Even CS is too difficult for casuals that play LoL. All sounds beautiful though, like id Software early days 2.0 or something ::}

Since i know you read here i will post this :

Ofc everybody like kind words but you basicaly want to kill Quake. But that will not happen. Quake never dies.

I personnaly immediatly saw the problems with your project the first second i heard of it. I know there is a lot of things we were waiting for in QL we didn't had but...

Anyway a lot of big compagnies also seem to be interrested in developing a new fast fps so you will have a lot of concurence providing that you finish your game.

also fast passed fps will NEVER be mainstream especialy for "esports" so your idea of a big fanbase and a pro league is just a dream.

And about kickstarter and other early access steam games or w/e they are all a big fail sadly.

Think about that, big compagnies put millions in a game just to have a small fanbase, what is your budget? *_*

"also fast passed fps will NEVER be mainstream especialy for "esports" so your idea of a big fanbase and a pro league is just a dream."
How do you know? I think and hope that fast pased FPS games will be the top Esport games soon. I cant stand whats on the top right now. If we get a good enough game for the casuals and a good enough game for the pros, I think fast pased FPS can go really far again!

that's how human psychology works, most people interrested in games doesnt care about fast fps. that's easy to conclude this will never be mainstream.

you need psychology classes...

Dont really know what human psychology has to do with it but okey. I think fast pased FPS is to hard for kids these days, thats why they dont play it, they want easy games like Moba games.

If we get a fast pased FPS game that is easy for casuals and with shit kids like, like skins and stuff, like CS:GO have. It could probably attract many players.

Uh, hello? Did you not hear him? That's how human psychology works.

Sorry but dota is a lot harder than quake. It's just more bling and ultra kill sounds that keeps the kids playing

I have around 550 hours in Dota2, also have alot of play time in HoN and some in LoL. They are all freakin easy. I will never understand you guys that says that its hard. I have been playing CS for like 10 years now, and its alot harder.. Simply because you have to aim and keep your aim good. I can come back to Dota2 after a 3 month break and still pull off good stuff, that I personally dont think is impressive, since nothing in Dota2 is impressive according to me. But in a break from CS I need to play some hours and get back my aim and my movement and such. I can just imagine how much difference that does on the proffesional level of CS.

Agreed, we are doing fine with zootlive faceit 125fps, reborn would mean a big community splitting, i post some newb duel mode and everybody goes apeshit, but they plus 2gd posts like theres no tomorrow about a potential quake killer, and if 2gd loves quake so much why so few quake coverage? He might love fps and competition, but quake, not so much imo.

Could people stop speculating in whether or not he truly loves Quake? Good God.

Who cares if he does or not? wtf

Ultimately this is designed to revive the competitive FPS 1v1 scene.

I guess I won't be playing Reborn :/

if it doesnt have a planned out teammode with proper support out of the box, im not gonna even bother trying it. fuck duel

But how are you going to do it? A dumbed down Q3 isn't the answer.

Dude, are you aware of the fact that without a way to reach a critical mass of noobs you are bound to fail loudly?

That's what SP or something like that helps.
If you cannot reach that mass your customers will always remains the better player from "lesser" and more accessible games (slower, more casual ones).. So it's a smaller audience which will never let you sit there with the dumb sequel of BW, dorka2 or CS:SNORING.

Do you remember how hard is it to strafe around for a brand new fast fps gamer? Do you remember how confusing is it to just jump in a game and get smashed left and right with everything spinning so fast?

Even a sort of initial area where nothing is happening and you can move around could help, you know something like CTR campaign where you need to drive to the doors to join the races (sorry for the old reference lol i don't have much experience about new games).

I don't know what's happening in there about the matter of brand new gamers, but this is the REAL challenge for FPS gaming more than everything else. Slowly introducing a generation grown up with easy games to the high demands of skill and dedication a game like this needs to be good and enjoyable is key.
Not a new revolutionary way to play FPS, but how to present it, how to connect people and how to make people enjoy it from the start.
The fact that you don't seem to consider team modes that seriously worries me as well as the fact that you don't seem to consider SP at all.

And by the way isn't saying something like "Ironman meets Tron" a way to say "Sue me, this is my money" :DDD ?

TL;DR: you are bound to fail if you miss the point of a new FPS should be. Fuck you and dota sucks balls, it's like playing professional pokemon. And make the spawns random.

Is their anything the community can contribute now?
Donations, Textures, Sounds, Animations ....

Additionally, I really think you should consider releasing the game engine under an open source license.
Keep the game textures under a proprietary licence and distribute them for a fee. (Like how Quake 3/ IOQuake 3 works, Warsow is the same but they don't charge for their textures).

Afaik he's been asking for inspiration on huds, and recently suggestions for a logo on his twitter.

I guess since 2GD is reading this thread I'll post this here in hopes he'll see it.

Is there any interest in a training mode where players could isolate the in-game scenarios they're having trouble with (movement, aiming techniques, aiming angles, number of enemies, speed of enemies, etc.) and drill them repeatedly while having access to cvars like timescale which could be used to better control the difficulty of the practice? I know most players would consider just hopping on an online server to practice to be more fun, but I think something like this would be more efficient and something I'd personally enjoy. I'm thinking of something which could be played both against bots and against real people online and something which goes beyond practicing basic competency so even advanced players could use this feature.

I've wanted this in QL for so long.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2306221/try-to-...ret-coder/

firefrog = ?

did he delete something ?

2GD

Looks like Cube2 editor.

that was so buggy omg :D

Kickstarter?

Did anyone actually listen to what he was saying?

Listened with joy!

Judging by the comments many people didn't!

.

Top Comment:
Does this have to do with the new game Reborn from 2GD what is this Shit?

wait what.. why do they also have 2gd in their name?

fanbois :D

Or Tribes?

I think a well-done parkour-style movement system could be interesting. If the physics were precise to the point where the movement system was deep and not contextual on the environment, it could be interesting. Mirror's Edge relies too much on nondyanmic moves (ie, a wall run will be about the same length regardless of your approach speed or angle). If there was some way tto introduce variable speed in running (like strafing does) and variable power in jumps (like rocket jumps or double jumps have in quake/cpm), I think taht could be very interesting. It boils down to precision, variability, and skill depth in order to make a good movement system, imo.

I know the artwork will change but still..
[img1]

What is your point, both logos are phoenix-looking bird?

Backgrounds are pretty similar too.

it doesnt really matter, xonotic dont have a fox, fazz, 2gd or noctis.

noctis is involved with it?

no

Looks suspiciously like..

gotta get my pokédex to figure out that one

Ninetales.

Ninetales, the Fox Pokémon and the evolved form of Vulpix. With its nine tails and thick golden coat, Ninetales is said to live a thousand years.

nine-tailed foxes seems to be a thing in japanese anime it seems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-tailed_fox

oh my, i was referring to naruto. the more you know!! :DD

a lot of references in anime are actually from cultural myths/sages/history.
Just like in many other stories for that matter.

The worst of them being in nobunaga the fool ofcourse... where joan of arc meets up with leonardo da vinci on some space ship scened in an intergalactical epic feudal japan...!?!.. (wtf is up with that right? :p)

.

Talking about artwork this is the first time I saw the xonotic logo, but it totally looks like the quake logo without the stem.

A phoenix is the obvious choice for a game called "reborn"

both unoriginal as fuck

I wants grappling hook!

I have a request for changing the games title. I would go for "James Harding's Reborn" sounds very good imo. Just like "Tom Clancy's Rainbox Six".

or John Romero's Daikatana

lolololol

Looking forward to streaming

tease

2gd & co deserve a bafta if this is a success.

2 G D
G
D

Any ETA on when one might be able to play around with the editor?

T H R O R
H
R
O
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P R O B A B L Y
R
O
B
A
B
L
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When do we get to know who "firefrog" is? :D

I remember ESR speculating that it was Christian Westman, but no evidence supported the claims.

However I've been doing some research and checked who 2GD follows on Twitter, and he follows someone called IceFrog but according to Wikipedia they work for Valve.

Or it could be any of the programmers from Stunlock Studios from when 2GD worked there.

IceFrog is the Bernie Ecclestone of dota2

Plot twist: fire frog doesn't exist but 2gd rents coders from India on a per hour basis

god bless

Murica

I'd subscribe for $5-10 pm for you to develop. It really looks promising. I'd love to do a Tony Hawk mod with that editor! :D

Also 27:00 you where looking a long time at Apollo and ending with a grrrrr ;)))

you could always hire a bafta winning esr denizen to help out with the design.

#shotsfired

shots hit (can't miss, #2big)

FUCK U SONIC AND YOUR [+] WHORING GIFS













;DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[img2]

Can't wait! :)

if this game isn't released soon, it's going to end up like duke nukem =)

How did duke nukem end up? Released, eventually :P

outdated game by the time of release :(

It's looking good so far and I like what I heard, I like what I saw.

However, I'm a bit surprised. 2GD wants Reborn to be made, but he is so far totally dependent on the help he can get as he can't make most of the game all by himself. The game has been in development for a while now and he still is stuck where he was at the very beginning, because i think he still can't help with game programming, 3D modeling, texturing, lighting, level design?, etc.

Basically, if he ends up with no money whatsoever and no one willing to help him, Reborn dies. That's dumb.

So, my recommendation to 2GD is to learn 3D modeling, texturing, game programming, go back to school if you need to, etc. It's going to be worth it, not only you'll be able to add more to Reborn, but you'll also have a lot more freedom to start future projects.

But maybe game development isn't your thing and I respect that. I'm still glad to see that some people out there are trying to bring back competitive FPS games to life.

- CP

You sound a bit stressed over this Reborn, that already got the communitys heart.

So, my recommendation to 2GD is to learn 3D modeling, texturing, game programming, go back to school if you need to, etc. It's going to be worth it, not only you'll be able to add more to Reborn, but you'll also have a lot more freedom to start future projects.

Since Deft grinders and Reborn probably will launch at the same time, we'll see if you are right.

"You sound a bit stressed over this Reborn, that already got the communitys heart."

And who gave you the right to speak on behalf of the community? You sound a bit douchebag.

Read up before going bonanza.

Sorry too much testosterone,

pumpkin seeds ftw (contains organic zinc, most important nutrient for prostate health, and magnesium). Zinc and magnesium combined are needed for 500 enzymes in the body, enzymes are like tiny workers that do a lot of good stuff for us, most people are deficient in zinc and deficient in magnesium.

Beyond everything, I'm a gamer and am in the business, because I believe that gamers should get the games they ask for. That said, Deft Grinders and Reborn are two completely different games for two completely different markets.

We need Reborn (classic) just as much as we need Deft Grinders (pioneer) and for completely different reasons.

Im just impressed that you don't have a dev team behind you, saw the movie indie game and im baffled with the commitment people like you put into it.

Well, one of the main reasons why I'm making Deft Grinders is to show how game development is now more accessible than ever before. Anybody dedicated enough can learn game programming, 3D modeling, texturing, 3D animation, game design and level design in just a few years. When tey'll look back, it will feel like yesterday and they'll be fully independent with the skills to materialize whatever games they have in mind. At the top of that, we learn new things everyday..

But I've been just a gamer once and I remember how everything (programming, 3D modeling, etc.) looked like a huge mountain before and I didn't think 10 years ago that one day I would actually do everything myself, because I didn't think it was humanly possible, but I was terribly wrong, I was ignorant. Now, I know better.

And there are so many gamers out there unhappy with the current state of the industry, I want to show them that they can actually do something about it if they want to. It's not impossible, it's not a dream it's feasable, it's achievable and I'll make DG to show that such path is actuall there, it's real and it exists.

Edited:

Also, usually on AAA dev teams, only a few people work on a game in early stages, then the team grow up and can reach 80-250 people in full production. But once the game is done, the company still have to pay all of them for doing nothing for months.

At Ubisoft Montreal, they have a team dedicated to personal projects. Basically once you finished a project you go there and can do nothing for months, maybe even years. That's dumb, but that's part of the culture of that studio.

If instead, a studio only had decent generalist game developers that could do almost everything, overall they would be more efficient as long as the project is designed from the ground up with the number of employees in mind. And at no time, someone will be paid to do nothing.

"Anybody dedicated enough can learn game programming, 3D modeling, texturing, 3D animation, game design and level design in just a few years. When tey'll look back, it will feel like yesterday and they'll be fully independent with the skills to materialize whatever games they have in mind. At the top of that, we learn new things everyday.."

Good mindset

Mmm. That's a potent accidental plus.

Normal accident for people with less than 5k posts, practice makes perfect.

"Well, one of the main reasons why I'm making Deft Grinders is to show how game development is now more accessible than ever before."

Indie dev's have been making games on their own for decades even before it become more accessible, you have a hilarious perception of yourself as some kind of development messiah that will inspire a generation where there are hundreds of people who have already done it.

Please stop.

Yes, indie game developers have been making games for decades, but how many solo developers or small teams of less than 5 people actually made a triple AAA game quality so far?

Because I'm not talking of a flash game like The Binding of Isaac here.

Pretty much all Atari 2600 devs? :P

Also, aren't you the guy that's making the yet another cpm clone?

No, that's the other game. Reflex.

Are you really now claiming that you are in the process of making a AAA game on your own?

''AAA game'' is a vague term.

I'm saying that Deft Grinders will look just as good as any Xbox 360, PS3, Xbox One or PS4 multiplayer games out there. That said, the art direction of DG is closer to Mirror's Edge or Deus Ex: HR in the sense that it would NOT be packed with thousand of useless details that make it really hard for the eyes/ brain to quickly analyze a frame or image.

I'm not saying that I'm making a AAA game of the size of Assassin's Creed X that requires 200-1000 employees to produce.

Anybody dedicated enough can learn game programming, 3D modeling, texturing, 3D animation, game design and level design in just a few years

I disagree. Sure, you can learn the basics and be able to fundamentally do all of those, but you won't be skilled at any of them.

When I look back at the things I coded many years ago when I was just learning and compare it to code I create now, there is just no comparison. I'm sure the same is true of artists too.

Things you create while learning should probably all be considered throw-away prototypes which get replaced with something real when you actually know what you're doing.

There is definitely a minimum requirement, but that requirement is very low. Video games are very much like comic books. Comic books artist don't need to have the skills to draw that kind of stuff...

http://www.iwebdesigner.it/wp-content/uploads...st-011.jpg

Because that would take way too much time to produce. You don't need to be an amazing artist to make good looking games. If you understand the fundamental rules of image composition, colors and are able to design stuff in a decent manner, sky is the limit.

In fact, almost every job in game development is more technical than it is creative (99% of the time). The most important thing is to understand how to create a game that will not frustrate the players. If you understand how to do this, you've done 85% of the work, because players will actually play the game and won't have any reason to stop. So, it's not about creating the most beautiful 3D scene, it's about creating one that looks good enough so that it won't bother the player or at best will impress them.

You don't need to be a skilled programmer to script anything in a game the same way you don't need to be a skilled artist to make 3D assets that look good. Especially with the heavy use of photos, pre-made brushes, etc. these days.

That said, it certainly won't hurt if you can become highly skilled at everything, but it's really not necessary. Usually, the biggest difference between an entry level position and a senior is just the time it takes them to produce something. The entry level just takes more time to produce a certain level of quality.

You don't need to be a skilled programmer to script anything in a game the same way you don't need to be a skilled artist to make 3D assets that look good

I still don't agree. See this quote from a John Carmack keynote (from http://www.codingthewheel.com/game-dev/john-c...d-harmful/ ):

One of the lessons that we took away from Doom 3 was that script interpreters are bad, from a performance, debugging, development standpoint. It’s kind of that argument “oh but you want a free-form dynamically typed language here so you can do all of your quick, flexible stuff, and people that aren’t really programmers can do this stuff”, but you know one of the big lessons of a big project is you don’t want people that aren’t really programmers programming, you’ll suffer for it!

In my profiling of Quake 4, I was horrified at how much CPU the HUD was taking due to it's over-dependence upon scripting and allowing "non-programmers" to do things without knowing what they're doing. Re-writing it with C++ got us massive performance boosts.

Well, that's some very basic knowledge. Usually, level designers are artists are well aware that UnrealScript (or any other high level language) or node-based editors aren't designed for heavy tasks such as AI.

The big difference between an average porogrammer and a highly skilled one usually is the use of mathematics. A good use of mathematics is necessary to create 3D systems, basically game engine related stuff. Mathematics are less important when it comes to program the game itself. And now that we got game engines like Untiy, UDK, Project Anarchy, CryEngine, etc. Anyone can just choose a game engine and learn how to script a video game and they really don't need much mathematics, unless they make something really ambitious, complex or stupid.

"unless they make something really ambitious, complex or stupid."

EXACTLY, and all you'll end up making is some run of the mill game anyone can do with a little bit of experience which revolves heavily around the base assets that come with the engine.
The second you need more, you're fucked, and if you can't get someone else to do it, you'll let it go.

Anyone can make a film, all they need is a digital camera, script, some actors, doesn't mean its going to be something worth watching.

Most people here don't want to play average or crap games, there are 1000's out there right now for free, I won't even download them.

So while what you're saying is correct to a certain point, the second you talk about any kind of real standard of quality (which most people around here would take as a pre-requisite), your logic would fall to pieces.

Comparing Quakeworld or Q3 to Doom 3, Q4 and Rage supports his main point... it doesn't matter if the engine is complex or the graphics are high res if the game isn't fun.

Single Korean guy programming Flappy Bird in 2 days > Doom 3.

No, his main point is "anyone can learn in 3 years everything required to make a game to a high enough standard that they can single handedly create an 'AAA game'".

I think this has yet to be proven - he hasn't actually started learning to code yet, afaik. I will wait to see what happens over the coming years, but I think there is a lot more to making a production ready game than he realises. maybe it will be that famous last 10% that kills DG.

Gameplay etc is an entirely different question - that is why you need the 2GDs of this world who have an idea of what they want, even if they cannot actually create it. Obviously competent coders (+artists) without a good game design won't create a good game. A poor implementation of a good idea is equally bad.

I think that you are missing many points.

I'm working alone on DG, because I want to learn and master every aspect of a game production, because I possibly can. I didn't hit a wall yet. If I do hit a wall or if I realize that something will take way too much time to do, then I'll also hire others to help me make this game in a reasonable amount of time (2-5 years).

Also, great experiences come from a clear, well developed and solid vision. The more people you get on a team, the more distorted that vision becomes.

Another point was that game design, gameplay and player psychology are my area of expertise and my background comes from gaming, martial arts and meditation. But I also understand how game designers strongly depend on all the other departments, so you got a lot of free time at some point, because you are always waiting for others to produce certain asset, animations, code, etc. So, all I'm saying is that 2GD could save both time and money by learning how to do other professions. He doesn't have to, it's just a bonus. But sometimes you don't go anywhere without money. If he can get help for free that's great, because that's very rare. But I know how game development is hard and I would personally feel bad if others would help me for free, so I do as much as I can myself. And if 2GD finds himself in a dead end at some point, if the only thing he can do is just have ideas, then he'll be screwed, Reborn would die.

And keep in mind what I also wrote earlier, that if you want to become great at something, you got to learn other things as well. The best designers also have a good understanding of both programming and art. In fact, it should be a requirement.

.

Considering the game's history with investors what he probably wants is to have the game a bit more refined in order to do a Kickstarter; have something to show in order to get more money and to meet the goal in first place in order to be able to withdraw the donations (otherwise everything goes to kickstarter).

That means that the game does already exist, that it will take a bit more time before showing up concrete results (and more artwork yeah) and that the big progress will be made after that is shown. He should want to show the project to players as if they were investors, which in the end they/we are.

Kickstarter gets the money if something fails to meet the goal? O.o
Don't people get their money back?

you are not charged unless the project reaches 100 per cent or more, so no kickstarter doesn't get the money if it fails

Designers don't need to be coders, artists or anything you think he should do. He clearly has people who are willing to commit the time to it, mentions the game is in full time development and actually showed something concrete.

Oh, and his concept art isn't made in fucking MS Paint. If we're handing out baseless "tips."

If Reborn succeeds, great, if not, just another arena fps in the garbage amongst the many. However, I have more faith in 2GD and his process than any big wig or random indie developer. He has the clout to push the game into the eyes of the eSport community, for sure. I think even based on the popularity of this thread (which isn't huge), the Quake community isn't holding their breath, either.

Hopefully, 2GD proves all the naysayers wrong and confirms that Reborn will be a legitimate replacement for arena FPS.

Game design and game programming are two sides of a same coin and programmers already are technical designers these days. Programming changed a lot during the past 20 years. Artists is a slightly overrated term. 3D arts is a lot more about technical skills than it is about creativity. Most 3D artists receive a concept art and reproduce it in 3D. Rare are the ones that can do both and you don't need CG concept arts to make good concepts and decent 3D models. And concept artists use a lot more photos then they used to 10 years ago, so the it's a very different art form.

And one of the things that some people really don't understand is that when you get better at something, it helps you develop qualities that will make you better at other things. Let's say you are a boxer, well... if you practice Taekwon-Do, you'll develop a greater footwork, etc. Most of us tend to perceive everything as separate when in reality, the reality is a big soup. The best programmers are designers and artists. The best designers are programmers and artists. The best artists are programmers and designers, etc. And to be a famous player or designer doesn't make you a good game developer, but it does help.

So, all I was saying if that 2GD could become a greater game designer or game developer if he was willing to learn other skills that are complementary to his current profession. And that could help him save money, a lot of money.

Obviously, you don't know the difference between MS Paint and Photoshop. Good luck doing this in MS paint...

(done by me, not another artist)
http://imageshack.com/a/img854/231/svvz.jpg

The reality is, anyone can make a good concept art, but depending of the skill level everyone works at a different speed. I could do amazing concept arts, but for what I need, what I've shown was perfect for the job. There is also a difference between a concept art made for game development VS another for marketing.

Bottom line, I really hope that Reborn will succeed and I'd like to see more games like this (needed) in the future from 2GD.

lol. I love the cartoony-ness of that image. I'd actually love to see that type of art in a competitive fps like this. Just cause, WHY NAT? Looks PG as hell. but with gibs it'd look hilaryAWS

Competitive Happy Tree Friends fps? :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsscl6myXqI&a...CCFEF1C0C9

Silly+Gore is always fun. :)

I was thinking of a slightly dfferent game. will post it when it comes to mind.

3d shooter in this style? :P

http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/wp-content...geddon.jpg

I like your enthousiasm but.....
This oversimplification is silly.

I've done programming for about a decade now and I'm still improving at it.... I also did 3D modelling for a semester (as an optional path in my education) and it's the same there. Although I didn't continue that path, some others did and they are now infinitely better (and still improving).

They are seperate professions for a reason!

I'm not going to my local grocery store and ask the guy behind the counter to build me a website.

Your analogy is terrible for two reasons:

a) Taekwondo doesn't translate to great footwork. l2martialart.
b) Some of the best athletes, professionals, anything, aren't good at other areas, they specialize in their one specific area. Do they have some relative competence in other areas? Sure, just like I'm sure 2GD is "competent" in other areas of game design.

Being mediocre in a bunch of areas doesn't improve anything, it just dilutes the product.

Oh and yea, woooosh, over your head. Obviously, I know the difference between MSPaint and Photoshop, however, I'm insulting your graphics because they look like MSPaint shit. Duh.

To all guys saying he cant be all those things together. I agree most people wont, but theres lots of example in history of people able to reach really far in various areas, greatest example maybe being Leonardo.

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence he is just using his memory."
$$$$$$$$$$

Im not saying Tidal Blast is the next Leonardo but stranger things have happened so all people using this base argument might be right or might be wrong.

Did you seriously use Leonardo da Vinci for your stance? Really? Have you seen his concept art? Right off the bat you can tell this guy isn't some genius in the shadows, about ready to unleash his mind-blowing, orgasm inducing, talents onto the world in a self-proclaimed AAA arena FPS game.

I mean, comon man... wtf?

Grats on quote usage that maybe relates? Not to mention, although totally pulling speculation from my ass, I'm sure Leonardo would still acknowledge that there are FAR BETTER people in the various fields he dabbled in. That's the point. 2GD doesn't NEED TO BE great at programming, or graphics, he needs to be good at design and marketing. Let the far better people do the work he wants done in his image.

"That's the point. 2GD doesn't NEED TO BE great at programming, or graphics, he needs to be good at design and marketing. Let the far better people do the work he wants done in his image."

I agree what you say there, but no, that wasnt the point i was talking about, i said clearly that my messasge is about comments repeatedly done to tidal blast.

ehhhhhhhh? Question...........
Is there another Leonardo da Vinci than the 15th-16th century guy?

Nope. Unless he meant the ninja turtle?

Ahhhhh I seem to have misread your post :D

Which made me very confused haha.... (I thought that his in "have you seen his concept art" referred back to Leonardo as there is no other person named in the post... but it refers to the post before :D)

Not the same person, but they could be considered as the equivalent in more recent times: Nikola Tesla and Patrick Flanagan. And by the way Leonardo Da Vinci had teachers. He didn't acquire his knowledge over night...

You're not making sense....

And seriously Patrick Flanagan???

T E S L A
E
S
L
A

Bigget genius of 20th century, so far ahead that the system had to bury most of his groundbraking research.

While he did his part with AC/DC the rest of what he did is way overhyped. People even compare him with Edison, which is silly as he did way more.

There's a reason why most of what's talked about him is about his personality and relationship with other scientists, instead of actual applications of what he researched beyond what I wrote and beyond Wii remotes rechargers (like 2GD actually). He's a symbol just like Einstein, so what they did is overhyped and their flaws are forgotten, such as the latter being one of the persons that specifically initiated the US nuclear bomb project thus made Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings possible, but everyone forgets.

You should research a lot more about Tesla. Edison was a practical genius that made lots of little steps that the system liked, hence the marketing he has. Tesla was a frigging mega genius but lots of his research was bad for many companies and the status quo, thats why he died poor and alone, and they made a great work then convincing people like you that he was overhyped. U can start with "Master of Lighting" docu, also please dont investigate about tesla on wikipedia or other mainstream sites, to really know who was Tesla you have to go underground.

[img1]

Nikolas Tesla had a protegé Otis T Carr and Carr had a protegé as well named ''Ralph Ring''. Ralph Ring is still alive and talks openly about free energy and advanced prototypes that involves floating vehicles, teleportation, etc.

Your logic is god damn awful and completely wrong. Taekwon-Do is one of the most explosive martial arts out there. Not only it helps one to develop faster and stronger legs, but it also increases balance. The only other martial art that could slightly help someone to improve his footwork is Baguazhang (Wudang) and that's the best complementary martial art you can find out there.

Professionals UFC fighters peak in what they do best and learn other martial arts that will help them get rid of their weaknesses. That's why the best fighters are ''polished'' or well rounded. Champions like GSP, Silva and Couture.

And if someone is dedicated enough and has an open mind, he can learn and master whatever he wants. There are no secrets, no talented people. It's all about practice and the speed ot wich someone evolves has to do with his psychological patterns and that's why it's important to keep an open mind to correct them.

Logic? I simply said you were wrong, I never gave any reasons. However, thinking Taekwondo has anything to do with footwork still doesn't make sense on a multitude of reasons. Either a) you don't really understand what people mean when they say "footwork", or b) you practice it and are extremely bias in its practicality.

Any martial art that involves your legs can be seen as something that develops stronger, faster legs, and balance. The whole concept of kicking is exactly that. But then we'd also get into the debate of what defines strength. Stronger in what sense? Stronger than legs that don't do anything or stronger relative to the sport? Definitely not really strong in the gym aspect.

Also citing Baguazhang (which, I had to Youtube) as the definitive best complimentary martial art is curious. Complimentary to what? Are you saying it's complimentary to UFC fighters? Fighting in general? Seriously?

Not sure what you're talking about in your last paragraph. Are you back on talking about 2GD or martial arts or just some cornball attempt at "being deep"?

Anyone who practices Taekwon-Do for a decent time period will end up with powerful and well-rounded legs. The guy will go to the gym and magically lift the max weight of all the machines in there which is a lot more weight than all the big guys in there can lift. And because of all the tricky advanced kicking techniques, the icy surface on which fighters fight or practice, the fact that most advanced fighters train with 20Lbs on their ankles... well the practitioner develops a lot of power, balance, precision and agility in the sense that he can make very complex spining moves and feints and that's all part of the footwork.

Taekwon-Do ITF is by far the most explosive martial art you can find out there. That makes Taekwon-Do a powerful martial arts to start with and a great complementary martial art. I've practiced Taekwon-Do for 11 years, am black belt, fought in high level tournaments including a Pan American tournament and trained for years with Canadian champions. During all that time, I've met several fighters that were champions in other martial arts and they all acknowledge what I just wrote above. It does greatly improve the footwork of fighters.

Baguazhang was designed to allow a fighter to fight 8 opponents at once, it has a very unique and advanced footwork, fighting technqiues are both subtle and advanced and it's just a devastating martial art. Baguazhang experts can move really fast around one or multiple opponents and that allows them to effortlessly put off balance their opponents, a principle at the core of all 3 Wudang internal martial arts such as Xing Yi, Bagua and Tai Chi. Not only it's one of the most advanced and effective martial arts out there, but it can also be combined effortlessly to any other fighting style. Bagua is so effective, that many new styles were a combination of Bagua and another martial art. When martial arts were at their Pinnacle in China, all the top fighters were either skilled only in Bagua or any other martial art combined with Bagua. Very few top fighters were only highly skilled in one fighting style or any others. It became very popular and nowadays we find various influences strongly inspired by Bagua in various films or animes (The Avatar: The last Airbender).

There is no doubt in my mind that the best fighthing style that currently exist is Baguazhang. If Bruce Lee would have had a greater understanding of Wundang internal martial arts, he would have introduced Baguazhang as the core of Jeet Kune Do (the godfather of modern Mixed Martial Arts).

And now, why the hell am I taking the time to talk about martial arts on competitive gaming forums? Simply because everything you learn in martial arts can equally be applied to any compeittive game and vice-versa.

And if I had to use an analogy to tell the difference between Reborn and Deft Grinders...

Reborn = Muay Thai (High level, external and straight forward in the sense that it takes approximately 3 years to master)

Deft Grinders = Baguazhang (High Level, internal and subtle in the sense that it takes 10 years to master)

Muay Thai... takes 3 years to master... At first, I didn't name call but now...

You're a genuine retard and your game will fail because of this apparent retardation.

We could say that it takes a whole life to become a grandmaster at something. But it takes approximately 3 years to learn and master most martial arts - external styles (muay thai, karate, boxing, taekwon-do, etc.) if you poractice 8 hours a day. When I use the term master here, it's equivalent to a black belt. It means that the practitioner finally understands and masters all the moves and techniques. However, that doesn't make you a high level fighter, that's completely up to the martial artist. Some martial artist only practice martial arts to improve their overall health.

If you only practice 2 hours a day or a week, it takes more like 5 years depending of how fast you can learn and adapt.

But some martial arts are more subtle and are more difficult to understand. There are 3 Wudang internal martial arts: Xing Yi, Baguazhang and Tai Chi.

Xing Yi takes 3 years just like any external style martial arts and is a quick way to learn how to fight. But Baguazhang and Tai Chi takes approximately 10 years to master, because they are much more subtle subtle, they use an advanced understanding of gravity, biomechanism, bioelectricity, fighting techniques, methods and overall understanding of the art of fighting.

For someone who is already expert at an external style, it's a matter of months before he masters another external style. But to learn an new internal style such as Baguazhang or Tai Chi would still take 5-10 years to master.

Wait, why again am I still talking to you since you obviously have no idea whatsoever of what you are talking about here and are calling me retard when I'm the martial expert and game developer? Because I'm a nice guy. Now I'm bored with your lack of common sense, so I wish you good luck for whatever you want to do next. I'm out of here...

I think you're mixing up Dragonball Z with real life, you don't just simply "master" any techniques in martial arts, "mastering" something means there's no further exploration or room for improvement, safe to say you've become peerless using this technique or style. Using the word "mastering" in your martial art essays is just a silly exaggeration and I don't think you understand the absurdity of it.

I think you live on another planet with a different dictionnary. A master is someone who reached a high level in something. Clearly, it doesn't mean that he reached perfection as there is always room for improvements. The term master is often used to describe a teacher and obviously most teachers certainly didn't reach perfection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_%28martial_arts%29

I have to agree it was stupid of me to imply the character development in DBZ ended up at someone's perfection, because even Goku didn't seem to show any sign of stopping to improve. I just unknowingly made the connection to DBZ when you mentioned bioelectricity and stuff, I was so sure you meant Kamehameha.

Bioelectricity:
An electric current that is generated by living tissue, such as nerve and muscle.

Think of mind over matter...

Your undownable wits in vocabulary aside, I've seen people set their farts on fire, but never anyone tasering someone with their bare hands or emitting an electric force field around themselves. I hope you understand the resulting skepticism and realize how desperate your attempts to convey your knowledge in martial arts is.

You should read twice before posting. This is just ridiculous. I didn't say that Bagua or Tai Chi martial artists were throwing fire balls, tasering others with their bare hands or were emitting some magical eletric force field around themselves. You imagined that.

I said that Baguazhang and Tai Chi use an advanced understanding of gravity, biomechanism, bioelectricity, fighting techniques, methods and overall understanding of the art of fighting.

Basically, you read bioelecticity, didn't know what the hell it meant, you were way to lazy to look it up on google and instead you created your own imaginary world around it.

Sure, I know what it means and with that I could try and prove my intelligence to you, making long and snobbish sentences, piling up compounds without elaboration then accuse you of depending on your imagination, but I'm too old to be doing that.

Never too old to do what is right.

Well, I'm happy to have been of assistance.

"Hopefully, 2GD proves all the naysayers wrong and confirms that Reborn will be a legitimate replacement for arena FPS."

If that happens, when he gets bored and reborn dies, what happens? Quake was here 17 years ago, and hopefully will stay till some man made disaster takes us back to the caves, its not just a game, its a culture. Also C Y P H E R.

id got bored of quake about 15 years ago. That didn't stop the community.

Plus there's always a next big thing (or going back to q3 over and over again).

If he ends up with no money Reborn is dead anyway.
Consider how much that will be needed to even keep reborn alive.
Plus being one person coding everything that the engine needs aswell as server side specifics for matchmaking, messaging etc.

One person doing this is suicide, the game would be dead at release as it would take far too long too make.

He is the lead designer and the driving force behind reborn, why is that not enough for you?

While I respect a lot indi devs who can deal with most aspects of game dev on their own, the undeinable truth is, you want specialists when it comes to high quality, with some stellar exceptions here and there which should not be confused for trends.

I've been close to production for 5 years now, and the skill of some people I've seen is just at a level that requires full immersion for many years, and even then it's hard competition.

Actually if you look at what the industry looks for, a classic description is the one of the T man. The horizontal bar represents shallow understanding of everything, which is exaclty what you are talking about with a few years of learning, and it's what allows you to collaborate with colleagues much better as you understand what they do and how to help them best. The vertical bar represent deep skill in one field, which is necessary to be really impactful on the project. And for this one, a few years starting from scratch is not enough.

Of course it also depends on the project size. If you want to stay a single indi dev, you can be successful in many ways. But I would not necessarily advise someone to learn all aspects of game dev. Teams exists exactly for having different strengths.

The team exists primarily to accelerate the time that it takes to produce a product. While one person does one thing, another can work on another.

Now you say that the skill of some people you've seen requires years of immersion. Well, it surely is not wrong, but it's not accurate either.

I'm studying right now in 3D modeling and after less than 8 months of generic training, half of the class can already make high quality games (including both envrionments and characters).

Ex:
http://tidalblastentertainment.files.wordpres...erview.jpg

The class is above average compared to past years, but it clearly shows that some people with certain mindsets can definitely learn much faster than others and it won't take them years to reach a high skill level in a profession. Once you understand that mindset, you can lear nand master whatever you want in a very short period of time. If you give 1-3 more months to those students to practice, they'll easily reach a high skill level in 3D modeling. After that, their progress will become slower, but the difference between an artist with 10 years of experience and them will be pretty small. Usually, the big difference between the two isn't the quality. It's the time it takes to produce the 3D assets.

I'm lucky to be in a place with extraordinary talent all around me, and as I said I'm very sympathetic with multi-skilled individuals. In fact, should it just be about personal growth, I would suggest the path you are describing to anybody with a PC and some free time.

However I would not understate the importance of teams, as well as having dedicated people. As you said, experienced artists produce assets of the right quality in less time. Same for engineers with code. But one important thing is also the positive effect of a crowd of experts: it improves planning and early identification of problems.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying there is a reason for specialization and team work.

Yet nobody has seen anything in game from you despite you claiming to have worked in the game industry for 8 years and you've been working on the game since at least the start of September.
(http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2477079)

Just an untextured Zbrush model which isn't rigged, textured, animated or inside a 3D game engine.

Looks beasty. If he needs an audio designer or programmer I'm game :D

Something to add to physics will be the ability to cling to walls or objects, kinda like a hook that would more than likely add a different dynamic to fights. Or if you had the ability to attach yourself to a wall, the whole screen would orientate to a first person angle again, that would make for some interesting shit.

Or in terms of level physics you can have certain areas of a map be destroyable for a brief moment that eventually regen after a few seconds, for example destroying grenade launcher platform on ZTN forcing someone to take a different approach to getting a power up.

I dunno, just maybe...

If Reborn does what 2GD hopes it will, he can officially change his nick to 2GOD.

the no money thing kind of scares me. makes me have little hope for something like this. sure it might be good, but not popular or as active as quake. if he had any money it would look more hopeful

If he can get the pros to play it, then the more hardcore quake fans will follow. If he is smart about how a new player is introduced to the game, then it will hopefully grow steadily if it is indeed and formidable alternative to quake for arena based fps.

Just hoping that if sponsors see quake legends(rapha, cooler, cyypher etc) playing in tournaments they may be influenced to help fund the game.

the game needs more appeal than that. rapha/cooller/cypher promotion would only expose it in the esports community, which is still niche compared to gaming in general.

if you want a good game it doesn't matter, but tbh I'm tired of playing dead games. I want a game with a bigger appeal, like a new Quake or Doom or Unreal or something.

I WANT A BOW WEAPON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3u2bmBJ6ts&t=4m4s

Crysis 3!

My son's will be playing reborn! :D i won't buy them consoles :P even if that means other kids will laugh at them for not having ps4 or ps5 or whatever :D


gl on the project dude!

so many options for weapons. there's tons of innovative weapons if you look at all DM games, shock rifle in UT, stake gun in PK, etc.

you could solve the LG issue by reducing damage and giving it a heal, so it might not be powerful but it gives you hp back.

I hope there's actually new and unique weapons as opposed to the typical rocket/rail/lg/nade/plasma that you see in most games.

i think "innovative tons of weapons" are quite likely to scare people away. minelauncher in quake is quite an interesting weapon aswell - still everyone dodges it like the pest. more / complexer isnt necessarily better.

that gun was only in team arena right? imo if it was a vanilla weapon in all modes it probably wouldn't be dodged as much

well like the chaingun its also available on some rarely played maps in quakelive. and its existance seems to be one of the reason people rarely play those maps.. so its stilll dodged

same thing for cg though, was only release in TA iirc.

also both those weapons are cool, but you could argue there's other vanilla weapons that are more effective in most situations.

Dude, Innovation is necessary for Reborn, it's been 15 years since Q3, and it's time for a breath of fresh air in the genre, there are already too many quake clones.

That said, I would hope to see some creative new weapons. That's what I liked about Xonotic, when they introduced the ability to curve rockets and remote detonate them. It added another level to combat and movement like here (somewhere around the 0:19 mark):

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HKRllCHzNHg

well thats your opinion. i played some xonotic aswell and the confusing amount and style of weapons + the lack of a "beam-track" weapon were the anticlimax in my experience. just like in warsow were all of the sudden my "shaft" started to curve down like a droopy penis. supported by the annoyingly keen voice of djwheet..

id rather want some innovation in matchmaking, serverbrowsing, skillrating, anticheat measures and so on and keep the game and weapon selection itself pretty basic in the beginning with stuff that works (rail, rocket, shaft)

So what you're saying is you don't think innovation in gameplay is not as important, and the focus should be on matchmaking and browsing. So what you're asking for is just Q3 in a different skin?

If so, I hate to break to you, but I'm pretty sure Reborn isn't going to be like that. 2GD already mentioned the addition of 4 classes (heavy, light, etc.) and that's going to change gameplay vastly. I could care less about server browsing, I'd like to see some creativity in game design.

I don't disagree, rocket-rail-shaft are the building blocks of Arena FPS, but there's so much you could do: rail could be a charge weapon, or a weaker burst-fire hit-scan; rocket could stun or immobilise a foe with a direct hit, or maybe propel them into the air allowing for combos; LG could be like moto1 described; or if you give everyone a designated grenade slot with several types to chose from.

I'm just spit-balling shitty ideas here, but arena games have to evolve, they HAVE to in order to succeed an attract a wider audience.

yeah indeed i disagree on that as in my opinion every single one of your proposions would scare newbies away (making the game even more complicated than current quake is).
not getting punched in the face the moment you want to play online is what most current fps lack. instead even if you have a game where its easy to find friends and join a server (without stupid version mismatch, punkbuster screwups, missing .pk3 yadayada) you will still be slain by the whole game with all its options jumping right into your face. "ohai! new here? - have these 10 weapons, 20 items to pickup across a map you dont know, a illogical movement system you dont get & the guy that just joined will 99% repe the living shit out of you because theres no matchmaking or even cheat protection. enjoy!"

you say FPS games have to evolve in order to succeed. i agree on that. but not in complexity or options but instead in accessibility and social media. like it or not - theres a good reason why consoles are so popular nowadays & pc games like lol/dota, hearthstone, whatever work so well. they dont punish people for beeing noob. they dont require you to invest time & learning just to make it work for you but instead you can have fun and feel connected to others right off the hook

You plead a good case, and I agree with what you said. BUT I wasn't saying the game should be more complex, I was talking about INNOVATION in gameplay, something to set it apart from it's predecessors. And LoL is far from noob friendly, and definitely requires time and effort to be passably good.

Are you kidding me? LoL is fucking easy, all Moba games are fucking easy. When you play for example LoL, you pretty much never have to use any reflex or fast decisions, everything is so damn slow, that you can think about what you should do for ages.

The key of being not n00b in LoL is avoiding doing things that could be fun. Just back off and poke these minions.

"Ye i heard QL2.0 is happening. They tried to hire people who'r working for Reborn (LOL). I hope it goes well. Not if all the good maps are premium tho, that was a dumb idea." -Yames "2dota" Harding

sauce plz

i said something like "QL2.0 CONFIRMED zliveFazz" on his chat and that's what he said afterwards.

when was this? there's VODS so we can go and listen to him say it

5 mnts b4 i posted my first msg

damn nevermind, those vods are way too long. i thought i could find it easier but twitch doesn't time stamp videos when they start

Any updates? -bump-

no

http://www.reborngame.ru/

Yeah, two nights ago I was watching 2gd streaming some diablo 3. I asked a few questions and he answered them kindly.

He launched his very beta game stuff with minecraft cubes and explained the viewers that he has incorporated pretty much the quake 3 weapons and that they're working on them as a basis. Of course, he wants the weapons to be different, it's just a reference, a starting point.

He explained that he may want to incorporate a two-effect rocket launcher: one option that explodes, pretty much like in quake, and one option that imploses, dragging the enemy toward the rocket's hit target. He showed some cool feats that you can do some funny alternative rocket jumps with the implosion option. He also talked a lot about the railgun-type of weapon he wants in the game, explaining that he may want to have a railgun damage that increases after consecutive hits.

Some other stuff that I've missed but the game is still beeing developped and he once again stated that, at some point, kickstarter will be considered. The overall "budget" atm consists of the environment background they bought (which isn't definitive ofcourse) and the model they bought (with 0 animation) just for the sake of testing once again.

You can find the vod on his twitch, it was monday night around 2:30CET in the morning.

www.twitch.tv/2gd/b/524032513?t=2h22m20s

When is gonna show up on ESR and get butt-hurt after people dare to criticize his game, like a proper developer?

well there are a lot of other interesting fps projects going on and i kinda wonder what even the need / point in doing reborn is. maybe it would be more benefical to join forces and put some serious work into a single game instead of having dozens of half-assed attempts in a couple of years that just line up with warsow, xonotic and whatnot..

just found this, its a cube2 fork in developement

Would you want to join some shitty warsow clone team or have your own shitty warsow clone team? :)

http://www.twitch.tv/thegdstudio/b/530320657?t=2h29m20s

i like where this is going; basicly quake with a shitload more room for creativity. dont think i wwill be playign the robots that dont have the strafejumping though, just cant let goooooo :x

so... there is no progress at all? ...

I heard that guys from Reflex want to hit kickstarter ASAP.

Seems that Project Nex is in the most advanced stage. But honestly I think Unity is shit for fps games.

Depends on what you call progress.

cant see difference between this and the 1st video ;p

So no progress done until theres artwork/models?

I didn't see any map too. looks like 1-2 totally random maps.

also, too many arena shooters in development to have 'such stage'

And what stage is currently reflex/nex/ut on?
Art, maps and shit is nothing if you don't have solid fundamentals.
Festina lente :)
Or even better:
R E V E R S E
E
V
E
R
S
E

ut doesn't neet it, it has well known name.

reflex/nex are implementing some concept arts, 3d models, already, so I guess they are in next stage.

some time ago they said Reflex got playable version with no art, now they aiming for kickstarter, so there is silence now.

I wonder if the rocket implosion thing is gonna work like Crylink in Xonotic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft3cVkHSR8U

I'm sold! Really like skills and fewer weapons idea. Jet jump and reverse both looks very smooth.