Subs are $5 each, of which $2.5 go to the streamer.

Most probably zotolyf is the quake-only channel with most subs and certainly isn't nowhere near 1000 subs; maybe around 100.

With $250 you can't host a free to participate medium sized lan.

> Subs are $5 each, of which $2.5 go to the streamer.
And it can't be changed?

> Most probably zotolyf is the quake-only channel with most subs and certainly isn't nowhere near 1000 subs; maybe around 100.
"Of course well known streamers, organizers are required"
And main thing you missed it's not a just channel it's channel only for one event and only subscribers are able to watch this stream.

In the end there aren't enough viewers in quake to do such project.

The only similar thing that works here are direct donations, which work only because 10 people here like to donate massive sums.

edit: typo

If it is held in england then it is not a problem

so bad idea?

Yes, tremendously. Sorry.

Just say why? People pay for entertainment.
Or quake viewers are so poor? Or 1000 viewers too high number?

The idea in general isnt bad, the twitch subscriber aspect to fund it is.

The part about only the donators being able to watch is the worst offender. Sure, you can call it "subscribing" and "offering a service in exchange for money"... but really it's just donations. There aren't enough viewers to have any commercial idea anyway... not to mention the goal here wasn't to make a profit as far as I know. So why limit the audience? I guess you thought people wouldn't donate without an incentive but this is really not the right one to choose. Also, don't forget that you need to reach a minimum goal before the event can even happen, so giving the impression that it might not succeed without such drastic measures will lower the confidence in the event even happening and affect the donations since few people would give to a project that they won't believe will be completed. That sentence was too long. Whatever.

That said, I don't think that a QC/DH level community-driven LAN tournament is impossible. But it's a lot of organization and a lot of money. You will need people that know how to drive it and people who can be trusted (hi Memento_Mori). Before even thinking about gathering money you will need to know how much is needed. For that, you will need to planify as much of the tournament as possible.

Where is it? What's the cost per day?
Where can the players eat, sleep, etc? How much would that cost them?
When is it? How many players (and WHO) will be able to attend?
What's the format? How long will it take to complete the tournament given the amount of players?
How much will the event location cost for that duration?
What equipment are you providing? How do you obtain it? How much will it cost for that duration?
How much do you need just to run the tournament?
How much would the minimal prize pool need to be for the players to attend?
What's the minimal donation goal, including everything, to even consider launching the event?
Is that goal realistic? What incentives can you give that won't scare the community away?

As you can see, most of these points are tied together and affect each-other. None of that is easy to answer. Yet it needs to be answered.

Also, you may not have to rely solely on crowd-funding. If you can manage to give shape to a big project, to prove that the thing is serious, to attract the community's attention and to get it involved, you may be able to get some good sponsorships. The more the community is involved in the project, the more interesting it is for a company to help it with some bucks and expose itself as the savior of Quake.

Man, I talk too much.

> Sure, you can call it "subscribing" and "offering a service in exchange for money"... but really it's just donations.
It isn't donations. Donations can be done or not but tournament will happen and you as viewer will get what you want.

> So why limit the audience?
To get prize pool.

> Also, don't forget that you need to reach a minimum goal before the event can even happen...
"Surely first LAN can't be done by this way and needs some risky donate to have guaranteed prize pool. Without having this guaranteed prize pool only optimistic viewers will pay for it and very optimistic players(sponsors) will spend their money for this."

> But it's a lot of organization and a lot of money. You will need people that know how to drive it and people who can be trusted (hi Memento_Mori). Before even thinking about gathering money you will need to know how much is needed. For that, you will need to planify as much of the tournament as possible. What's the format? How long will it take to complete the tournament given the amount of players? How much will the event location cost for that duration? What equipment are you providing? How do you obtain it? How much will it cost for that duration? How much do you need just to run the tournament?
All of this can be done by 1-3 organizers. Good examples are Prague TDM LAN and CTF LANs in Europe.

> Where can the players eat, sleep, etc? How much would that cost them?
Like any other LAN tourney players search themselves where to stay and how spend their money. Only some recommendations will be done. Players aren't little boys.

> How much would the minimal prize pool need to be for the players to attend?
There will be only one goal: full prize pool plus organizing costs.
"Surely first LAN can't be done by this way and needs some risky donate to have guaranteed prize pool. Without having this guaranteed prize pool only optimistic viewers will pay for it and very optimistic players(sponsors) will spend their money for this."
That means before first try there must guaranteed prize pool made not by subscribers. I thought it's obviously. For example X contributors (benefactors) donate Y money this means tourneys will be and subscribers donate Z money. If Z > Y then contributors (benefactors) get their money back from subscriptions and Z-Y money adds to prize pool or goes for next event. If Y > Z then contributors (benefactors) get only part of their money.

> Also, you may not have to rely solely on crowd-funding.
But for me it looks like the best way and more independent.

> If you can manage to give shape to a big project, to prove that the thing is serious, to attract the community's attention and to get it involved, you may be able to get some good sponsorships.
First of all I don't able to run it. Quake Live doesn't attract sponsors and I guess you know why.

And of course only subscribers can view this stream

This part i dont like at all, i want as many people as possible watching it, including those that cant donate or dont have the means (no credit card, paypal, age, whatever).

The idea of a crowd funded tournament is good, we raised more than 5k (5k was the goal, im sure we can raise more) for last quake DH tourney, lots of users laughed and said nobody would donate then, and they were proven very wrong. We would need DH giving us the green light, place, computers and all those things that would cost a lot of money to setup without their help. If we could donate just for the prize pool, i believe its doable, DH puts the infrastructure, we put the prize money. Having a big tourney in DH Winter and Quakecon in summer sounds very nice and prolly would help stay motivated to many pros. Maybe we even get one or two sponsors to raise the prizepool, or at least many 480Gb SSDs for the top places :D

i like your idea, we also could try to get some "main" and "support" sponsors. for example a company that makes mousepad, then we get it as prizes too, like as we (i mean old people) in WCG events and so on. i was once a manager of Revoltz, that later became Mibr second team. I don't know if we have old people in here to see this post, but i managed a CS team that was top3 in brazil, a 2 best UT2k4 players, the 2nd best warcraft 3 player, the best DoD team at that time in brazil and a good player in painkiller. and in many times i had to managed to make an offer or to make a letter to a sponsor and to negotiate it and so on. the problem is that i love to play if it is well organized and if i have time to prepare to the tournament i would attend the event as a player haha!, i can't do both :)

btw REVOLTZ and mibr were counter-strike team basis

sorry i don't want to be arrogant, i just want to show my resume in order to provide help in case of somebody or a group of people to make tournaments and so on, i also worked with a friend that we were going to make the WCG 2005 Brazil event of that year, so even projects that talks about the structure of the event i also have a little XP in it.

> And of course only subscribers can view this stream
That's the main point. May be only grand final will be free to watch.

your nickname looks like a Nigerian football player, sounds like Amuneke :)

.....

Yeah, if you go into that type of elitism, just drop the entire "public" shit and make a private lanparty.

If you want anyone to support this idea, you must make stream free. Ppl will come in droves next time if they see there was lots of fun and good game. What you attempt to do is alienate that potential support crowd.

They way I see you see it (lol) you try to market that as something akin to pay-per-view. But I'm buying a lanparty that I can host anytime in my town. No go.

Your economical aspect of this endavor is also severely lacking. Sleep, eat, offline time - this better be organized and synchronized, otherwise its just a ragtag party for PAYING people.

if crowd funds, crowd wants to see (if not participate). Otherwise they will just piss on your face and go on their merry way. Nobody wants to fund a party they can neither attend nor see.

Paying $10-15 to get quality tourney and proper stream isn't type of elitism.

> If you want anyone to support this idea, you must make stream free.
That's the main point. May be only grand final will be free to watch.

> But I'm buying a lanparty that I can host anytime in my town.
And how many world class players will attend your lanparty?

> Sleep, eat, offline time - this better be organized and synchronized
Thanks Captain Obvious

> otherwise its just a ragtag party for PAYING people.
Paying people will watch stream and enjoy stream at home.

> if crowd funds, crowd wants to see (if not participate). Otherwise they will just piss on your face and go on their merry way. Nobody wants to fund a party they can neither attend nor see.
Sometimes it's better to chew than talk.

Sometimes it's better to be less hostile, especially towards people who wish to attend/support.

But good luck with that attitude.

You'd be better off finding all the costs of setting up a LAN, adding 50 percent and then launching a kickstarter.

I don't think kickstater suits well for that kind of donations. Will be good if I'm wrong.

Crowd funding a tournament is a good idea.

Restricting who views the stream is a bad idea.

A tournament like this would be good for the community and lots of people could enjoy it even if they arent in the quake scene. Offering rewards for donators would be fine but restricting the stream to donators only is not smart.

Maybe the money could be raised through something like kickstarter or a similar system with stretch goals that add things like showmatches or more player invites

> Offering rewards for donators would be fine
In which way? QL or steam award? I doubt Quake Live dev team will have time and reason to do this.

> goals that add things like showmatches or more player invites
Good idea. Thank you.

I'm not saying I have something in mind for the rewards. I'm just saying something like that would be fine if you were really intent on rewarding the donators but restricting the stream would not be.

this game is dead enough

putting games behind a paywall stream isn't helping anything

Funny everyone tells you the stream donation/restriction aspect is bad idea, but you keep copy pasting "That's the main point. May be only grand final will be free to watch." :/

Let me reassure you, that's not your case.

this is a question in philosophy that has been thought about for centuries, lol :)