I can tell you first hand that no LCD is better than any decent CRT. The 'only' things that LCD panels have going for them is color reproduction/accuracy, resolution and size.

So it's a matter of what you prefer... but answering to your last question, no, the XL2420Z is not worth the $100 extra.

Get xl2411z unless you need display port

Is the xl2411z the best price/quality option for a high hz monitor then (and better than VG248QE?) I saw someone mention firmware, (v2 vs v1), does that matter at all?

And lightboost is shit and 144hz is ideal?

(ps hi!)

xl2411z vs vg248qe:
+ cheaper than vg248qe here(quality and perfomance are the same)
+ got advanced lightboost(benq blur reduction) which is more adjustable, doesnt require an nvidia card and also works on 144hz.
- got no display port(you may get xl2420z/xl2430t for that)

Overall lightboost is personal preference. The motion clarity is better, at the expense of brightness and slight input lag(although it's not really input lag, you just start seing the whole picture when it finishes the refresh for the most part of the screen and the strobe starts, while with usual backlight you see the pixel transitions and therefore it's slightly faster). Also lightboost doesnt work well on 144hz since you cant remove top and bottom screen ghosting like on 120hz with vertical total trick.

Strangely enough, the Asus is about $200 cheaper in Canada :O

Not only in Canada, in at least a few countries in Europe it's the case, also during the sales the gap between both was even bigger (more than $300).

I ordered from Amazon and got a v2 firmware, if that helps.

does v2 firmware fix some bug/issue with v1? like, do I need to make sure it's a v2?

I just know you can't use the Blur Busters Strobe Utility with v1 firmware and from what I've read the v2 firmware makes it like a whole different screen.

I would just order from Amazon or BenQ if you can since they are confirmed v2.

I see, thanks. I had a look at BenQ store as per your suggestion but they don't have any xl2411z's listed on their EU website at the moment.

And I keep hearing different things about Amazon UK being V2 or V1... although I did read today that you can do the firmware upgrade for free (without hardware) so I might just risk it and if it is V1 try the upgrade myself.

The thing to consider is that removing blur should also theoretically improve a different type of lag by several milliseconds. While the lightboost technology adds a few ms of input lag of its own, you are now getting a closer to pixel perfectly accurate representation of objects on screen. So if you're worried about missing a target by a millisecond or so, you should also be worried by the blur that adds a few milliseconds of inaccuracy of its own. And this blur is present on every moving object.

CRT was so good because not only did it basically completely remove blur but it allowed you have virtually non existent input lag. If I'm not mistaken, no LCD will ever compete in both regards, at least not without an unrealistically high refresh rate combined with strobing. There's also the fact that CRT could play in any resolution with no image scaling so you could lower your resolution for an otherwordly frame rate without the awful image scaling downgrade present in LCD monitors.

I personally use the FG2421 as I believe it has the best strobing of the bunch. My only gripe is the strobing performance in desktop is lackluster. Big, dark bold fonts on white backgrounds generally exhibit ugly streaking behavior and scrolling text while reading is generally ugly too but at least it's possible. There's also some minuet artifacts here and there that aren't really an issue. In game tho this monitor just blows me away. I don't find whatever input lag there to be to be meddling in any way. It's about a frame or so of lag which hasn't impacted my reaction times in the slightest. The fastest LCD monitors are just under a frame of lag. Good luck proving it makes a difference cause I don't see it and you can disable the strobe for zero frame input lag to see for yourself.

Unless you're comparing CRT vs LCD, I'd just get whatever LCD fits your needs the best. I will say that having the option to strobe is well worth the few milliseconds of supposed lag it introduces. Keep in mind that monitor lag testing isn't exact and proving its effects on your own reaction time beyond feel is subject to some major placebo; motion blur isn't subject to placebo.

I know LCD won't compare (for at least a while), but I'm wondering if there's a noticeable difference. I've mentioned that I wanted to make the leap to LCD to a few people and they are all telling me that I should go for it. I don't mind spending the extra bit as I'm just slapping it into the money pit of a whole new setup, as long as it's comparable to CRT.

You say there's a bit of input lag that you don't necessarily notice. Was this not noticeable coming from CRT? I've been on the same monitor since '95. Is it likely I may notice anything after being on CRT this long? Every other flat screen (not 1ms or gaming by any means) felt like I could go make and eat dinner before the screen would react.

Makes me laugh all this dedication to CRT in gaming. All of the worlds best players use LCD & at tourney's. Even if CRT is more responsive, there's no way it makes you a better 'mediocre' player.

All? Are you sure?

Why would I pay 10x the amount of money for something that doesn't perform, or even look as well?

Well a better mouse won't make you a better player either but you might get better results. As for tournament hardware, as far as I know players don't bring their own. It's already hard enough to ensure they provide 120+hz monitors, asking for CRT wouldn't change anything.

I bought xl2411z. It's 75% feel of CRT. Input lag and motion blur is still visible. After 2 days of playing shit ton of duels, I got used to it.
Colors from box is realy shit, compared to my notebook orginal lcd and crt. Need a good colors calibration...
I am heavy based CRT player and I can live with this LCD, so 99% other gamers could too..

Man you are playing at notebook with monitor connected by d-sub(VGA). You need to try this monitor with native full HD resolution at 144Hz. VGA allows you 1280x720 at 120 Hz, right?

vga adds input lag on lcd, at least every single one i've tried.

and what about HDMI? I could get same 800x600 @ 120hz @ HDMI , as I know.

hdmi and dvi, the same really, should be better than vga any day on an lcd :)

I am playing 800x600 with black sides @ 120hz.

Have you tried Lightboost?

not yet. I will try after I will get home (away for few weeks).

colors are already shit with benq, so I never tryed lightboost, as I red, colors are more shit after...

My colors were bad until I realized I was on another monitor preset for some reason.

The colors don't really get worse with lightboost, it just dims. Imagine flicking a lightswitch so fast you don't see the flicker. It's kinda like a fluorescent that is going out.

they go worse, you get red-pink tint which you can not get rid off completely. Heard that doesn happen with ULMB option of Z version.

I didn't notice it.

than your color vision is worse than mine, and I have really bad one :D

how to check? i didnt isntaled any drivers and didnt set any color shit in windows, just in monitor menu.

Check out this expansive review of the XL2420Z (same panel as XL2411Z) and try the ICC profiles they provide along with the suggested OSD values.

I just got an XL2411Z very recently, like a lot of other people here apparently did or are about to, so I just now found this. It's probably going to be drastically different colors than what you're looking at right now, and you'll probably like it. From there, you can adjust brightness and stuff to your liking.

I have tryed to instal color profiles, but nothing changes at all. maybe problem is I have intelHD and gefore gt540m. :/
What could I do is settup in monitors menu.

Did you click "set as default profile?"

https://pcmonitors.info/articles/using-icc-profiles-in-windows/

look at step 5. You can see Radeon XXX. I can see IntelHD (3 options with intel HD). Ofcourse windows using intelHD , just geforece for games. And if I change color settings by hand in intelHD settings, colors changes in CSGO too (it runs with GF).

I used to have one of those and it only came with 3 ports with a wicked low polling rate :(

but colour reproduction is awesome

Not very durable or LAN friendly though.

Yeah, but the floppy rewinder it comes with is really useful.

I have two samsung 2233rz, switched from ultra high refresh CRT (like sony or samsung with 150 Hz+ in quake resolutions). Until now they served me well and I was satisfied. Blur, tearing, colors all don't matter when you get a LCD with near crt properties imo.
I was satisfied, until now.

Some days ago, one of them (which I used much less) stopped working. 2 month after the 3 year limited warranty expired.

I hope I can repair it myself, seems most of the time the inverter or capacitors they use in that thing have a timed self destruct....

never samsung again :(

Always just after the warranty... I swear there's a science behind this.

welcome to consumerism, if nothing breaks nothing gets sold :p

an hour :O

tldr?

theres no science to it , this now days are built to brake down :D

Actually there is science to it. You take low grade capacitors and predict how long they will last at the temps in the warmest part of the monitor. If they will last just outside of the usual warranty periods with heavy usage then they will use the caps. Samsung and others are known to do this. Afaik Onkyo did this on some of their receivers as well, making them last just over 2 years when being constant on. No competent engineer would place low grade caps where it gets really hot, unless trying to purposely reduce lifespan.

Yes, you can repair it yourself and I think I still have some capacitors left.

http://esreality.com/post/2393182/samsung-2233-rz-repair-article/

I think with mine it's the inverter, capacitors seem fine visually, I measured as well.
Already ordered one, but it takes 20 days from china to arrive.

curiosity: how did you measure them ?

With a multimeter set to measuring resistance. Because it generates a current for the resistance measurement, you can see the capacitor load to its maximum capacity, or unload.

I think visual inspection will suffice, but I wanted to be extra sure not to miss anything so why not

if two capacitors are in parallel, you measure the sum of capacitances.
i think you should check the schematics, they can be found quite easily.
EDIT: also, if you set your multimeter to resistance mode, the capacitor should behave as an open load (it may be failing in short circuit mode, but it's more likely you are measuring the resistance of the load connected in parallel with the smoothing capacitors at one of the VRM's outputs).

That's true, I did not give it any more thought whatsoever. Some forum posting mentioned you can check capacitor by this method, if the resistance is fixed, it is probably broken, if it is raising or falling, it is working.

probably in truth it's not that easy. anyways the error symptom fitted defective inverter 100%, I get a picture for exactly 2 seconds, every time I switch off and on again.
So first I replace the inverter, if it's still not working the capacitors, if that did not do the trick then I will resolder some bad looking solder points.

if the resistance is fixed, it is probably broken, if it is raising or falling, it is working.

yes, but you will never know if the real capacitance value has decreased under a critical threshold.
this effect is due to aging as well as ESR (equivalent series resistance) increase.
I'm telling you this since caps value can decrease until the screen cannot turn on anymore, the most you can see is power on led turning on for an instant (some time ago i measured 200pF, nominal value was 200nF).
anyway, the avg price of a consumer multimeter with cap measurement capability is ~20 bucks.
if circuits are your hobby, i would suggest you buying one.

Trying to repair crap that failed me is my hobby :)

I'm not so much focussed on electronics, I like to try and fix everything that's broken. I think about this like an obligation as a man, to fix things.
You do not throw away stuff that could still be used. Anyways, I went off on a tangent...

I don't like to buy things I use twice a year as well, but I will see if I can lend a capacity measurement tool if the inverter won't fix my monitor. Thanks for the good suggestion.

I like this philosophy.

got it, gl with that !

Hmmmm, inverter broke here as well..... Also shortly after the warrenty stopped.

But I'm still happy with the performance of the screen.... It's much better than any crt I ever worked with.

Mainly LCD's are "calmer for the eyes" as they don't flicker but they update. This is the biggest benefit there is for LCD's imo.

the backlight on the old lcds still flickers, in fact some of the lcd monitors are much worse for the eyes, pwm-free led backlight ones are good though

I didn't know that :)

PWM for backlight, that is like total engineering fail. I didn't know what kind of retards work at screen manifacturing companies, god damn.

it's a cheap way to control the brightness
frequency is fairly high usually(3+ more times than refresh rate) but the flicker is still there obviously

Even PWM free models "flickers"... just at high frequency like 18kHz.

Yes. Fluorescent tubes flicker the same, which is also fail.

It seems to me unneccesary in both cases. Classic case of optimising profits gone wrong.

I'm tired of greedy companies selling bad products that make us sick. I'm even more tired of the general public buying this crap without caring for quality whatsoever.

That's the real cause of greed actually working, people who do not care, reviews that get suppressed or testers turning a blind eyer because they are bribed.

Fuck humanity, seriously. There is no help.

Just as a quick update, it was in fact the inverter which was broken. If you have the "2 second picture" behavior, it will most likely be the damn inverter.

I ordered one from ebay for 8$ shipping included. It took roughly a month to arrive (because of german customs I have to add, they are nosy as shit, always searching through your stuff) , but the soldering was pretty straightforward and the monitor works good as new again for now.


My two 2233rz twins are reunited in all their glory! :)

I'm chuffed at how your suspicions proved to be correct.

I'm also chuffed, that I myself, suspected it would be an inverter replacement job; alas, I was too shy to post my claim here in July.

To you Sir I say upon thee. "people power 1 - 0 mass manufacturers of the commercial world"

(also hi there o/)

Thanks, but I don't want to take credit for work of others

"Adhedonique" posted the guide for disassembly, even other forum posters suggested the Transformer is at fault in 80% of the cases and refined the error description. So yeah :)

But anyways, I'm very satisfied. Internet is so great for some stuff! Samsung would have loved if their cheap plan had succeeded with their timed-failure device... ha!

what did you need to solder? didn't you buy the whole pcb?

I bought this inverter here
http://www.ebay.de/itm/360879285751

It was exactly 10 solder points. The desoldering is easy with a "solder pump". 10 minutes work, another 10 minutes for the dis/reassembly.

And here is the step by step guide with pictures
http://www.overclock.net/t/1368970/samsung-2233-rz-repair-article

that's weird, son!
you managed to fix it, while not being able to distinguish between inverters and transformers ! :D

Of course you're right, it's the transformer, for the inverter!
Praise the internet! I didn't even need to know haha.

But I'm slightly ashamed.. I should care more for electronics. Always going for the quick fix... :D

mind taking a look at the faulty transformer?
can you see anything wrong in there?

Measuring with a continuity checker, both outer coils (I think those are the secondary sides) have no connection from pin to pin. But I cannot see the tear.

The filaments of the outer coils are very thin, I don't know the current that is induced in them, but they look very fragile...

ok, proof. thx !

coils must be thin (few amps per square mm), copper is expensive :D

images didn't load.
why don't you add your article to the wiki ?

After using the xl2411z v2 firmware for a while, I'm a very happy camper.

The difference between CRT and this is only a minor amount of ghosting. I prefer to leave Blur Reduction/Lightboost off. The dimness in light does not make up for the lack of motion blur. I don't feel any input lag with Blur Reduction. I also play surf maps (think defrag, but pin-point contact to the world is necessary), any significant motionblur would make this really difficult.

I'll put it this way:
The motion blur on the xl2411z is less detrimental than the tearing of no v-sync.

If any CRT users out there are hesitating on making the leap, just do it.

Yeah I just got this monitor as well and I'm very happy with it coming from a CRT. I don't even use MBR because 144hz looks good enough and I like the brightness of no MBR more. You will notice ghosting when there's high contrast between surfaces but if anything it's just a little distracting, not really a drawback other than that.

I'm just using the driver and color profile on the CD and it looks great (plus brightness 28 and gamma 5).

CRT users won't regret buying this monitor. Get rid of that beast on your desk.

got xl2411t and sony g520, can confirm all you wrote.

john carmacks monitor from 1995(1080p crt)
found one at the recycle center, you're asses are mine now


[img1]

[img2]

Nice! The upper photo is from Carmacks setup too? Has the same keyboard.

that's him coding quake1

I mean the photo without Carmack ofc :D

yep, same system

Those are active 3d glasses?

I wonder if it needs its own power plant.

only 180watts ;p

http://www.geek.com/games/john-carmack-coded-...5-1422971/

hz?