Default CTF has no loadouts and no TA extras. Sure the item timers are a bit of a bummer but generally I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out. Especially since it dodged the loadout bullet.

I can pretty happily play classic or default CTF and have a good time in either

No one talking?

Ded geme?

Coincidence?

The fuckiest thing ID have done is make "classic" servers unranked...

ridiculous

It's one time in the millenia when I actually agree with you.

He just repeats after you like a monkey so you don't need to feel bad :)

You have to tame him with sophisticated provocation and a bit of give-and-take play. Be careful though, because human teeth can inflict quite serious wounds, if sufficient biting force is applied.

If you succeed, then you have to perform lobotomy on him, which should be followed by a carefully carried out precondition on an hourly basis. Blueprints on the Pavlov-reflex might come in handy.

Follow these simple steps, and one day, he will speak ornate language and will be the messenger of truth, loved and respected by everyone. Maybe even leave 1200 elo behind.




Or not.

what a wanker

So it didn't work for you.

You may missed some important steps.

not just that... naming it classic is an insult.

casual and hardcore as a naming scheme would be acceptable from me.

classic... fuck no.

why do you need it ranked? stats are pointless

I want to be able to see my stats and see how much i have improved etc...

You improve by beating players better than you. Quake live isnt huge. you should know who is and isnt better than you. You're just making excuses to rant about pointless stuff

It's not that small in 1200ELO range.
Update is not "pointless stuff".
It's not zoto's chat.
]:=)

Stats are everythink.

It's actually what makes people play well. It's an incentive to convince people to keep playing.

Yeah now they taking it away ggwp

But is it such a big deal? PQL players have always played unranked, they dont care.

but the stats for acc are still recorded afaik

no they're not, they just show up in the match history and thats it.

also a fatal flaw for hosting unranked is, noobs can join red or blue however they want.

well PQL was then ranked I guess? As I was sure that the stats, got added. So its different now?

no, you're mixing something up, unkranked never got added in any form other than to show up in your match-history.

Well its weird, cus nearly all I have been playing is PQL on Minos server for the last 1 or so years, and my overall acc has increased. But it was unranked? Are you saying a different set of stats?

im saying, you played ranked for sure to get changes on your profile regarding acc/frags/wins/losses/quits.

unranked doesn't affect any of these.

ok thx, and we are doing what the topic displays!

ye but this whole ranked/unranked thing should be clear, and its pathetic to think that people who been playing it for many years should now play classic unranked.. with a new weapon nobody wants.

if thats too highbrow for some people here then thats a shame, the game was dumbed down exactly for this dense type of thinking.

i mean the game is going on steam, those people are all about ranked shit from start to finish, achievements and what not..

very true

PQL players are fucked up. It's like the hippies of Quake Live.


It is a big deal.

Either you play for fun or you play to get better. If you play for stats then you're an idiot

you're an idiot who thinks people care about stats while its a loyal userbase that has been screwed over with classic mode that isn't even classic.

Have to wonder about one thing on this though.

If they'd introduced just the changes that effect classic a bit a month ago, then some people would be a bit miffed but not to the same extent.
There probably wouldn't be much more flaming than any of the other times there's been some tweaking and rebalancing (LG, MG, shotgun repeatedly on the weapons front, various little movement tweaks, hitbeeps, killbeeps etc).

And then after those flames had died out over a few days and people realised it was actually still Quake, the Live version no less, that promised them regular updates & tweaks,

when the loadout stuff hit no one would be making out that 'Classic' wasn't the normal QuakeLive they were used to before the loadout stuff, they'd be ok with that distinction, that Classic is the classic game with some tweaks that would have happened anyway.

tbh, why not just keep classic and the new default ranked and everyone is happy? (and remove hmg entirely from classic) i know you would agree here :P

the newly offered mode with ammo packs every 5 steps is the equivalent to infinite ammo. its boring, same with people hogging items now knowing when enemy stuff will spawn and pu's to the second. all randomness is removed which is part of the games personality.

people who played classic will just prefer that because the new dumbed down version is nauseating.

you would think that after a shitstorm with 1500 comments these guys wouldn't just force it down everyones throat.

if we're talking CTF - the weapon changes you've mentioned dont bother anyone too much from what i've gathered.

its the core-elements of the game that forced strategic thinking and got nullified and is now the new theme of the game. its horrific.

you would think that after a shitstorm with 1500 comments these guys wouldn't just force it down everyones throat.

this indeed...

everything has already been predicted in the irc leaks thread.
and ppl saying "oh you'll keep playing anyway" etc.
well not really. I think this is the first time that it's just too much. we swallowed a lot of things over the years(including mr. cheat developer's unbanned dick), but now the game is really ruined.

all my mates are disgusted, without exception. lot of ppl already quit, myself included. I guess that was the plan - fuck the oldschoolers, appeal to the new players. but why would those newbs play some degenerate abomination version of quake when they can play COD, BF or countless other FPS games. if they do play, they prolly won't stick around, because the real reasons for low player retention haven't changed...
even if player count is much higher after steam release(for a while at least?), it's going to be a net loss for sure in terms of integrity of the game.

well all this has been discussed already during the leaks.
gaining speed for an inevitable disaster.

Thats not what the convo is about, bud.

you don't even play ctf, thats what this convo is about. so ?

still not what its about. 3rd times the charm right?

your input is useless.

your concern is pointless.

so you claim

get it over and done with and suck eachothers cheesy geek dicks

this "you play for stats" card is really getting old.
that's not the point. they make classic(real) quake unranked overnight, that's an insult, a slap in the face. UNRANKED, like you don't matter, you're not even playing the game, playing instagib or something. it's stupid. and there's no reason why we couldn't just have both ranked...
also stats are great. I like to keep track of my matches, monitor my performance see how I'm doin, and see improvement over long period of time(for up 'n comin players). doesn't mean you "play for stats", sigh.

yes I think everyone does check, some more so than others, and yes seems a weird stance. But maybe their resources, not being able to keep ties of the matchmaking links from different modes, or they just don't "want to" have to compare skillsets from the different modes!

I was going to give you [+] but the website told me I can't.

I guess it's the Universe.

no Ded game, ctf is quite alive in europe. Normal-, TA-modified and even space only servers are populated daily.

I've been playing the normal version for years as a pubhero.
Only other thing I play is FFA...which now is totally facepalm

anyway

At first i joined a 'standard' ctf server
saw the timers around items and other new stuff...nope nope
*quit*

Then I joined a spawned 'classic' ctf server
somed annoyances which i could fix (simpleitemsbob, damageplum) but the Attack & Defend icons on de flagspots are very annoying and I didnt find a way to turn them off.

But ok, I can live with that I guess, played a few games, no biggie
LG was 6 dmg ofc, but personally I understand it and I'm actually ok with that change.

Then it switched to CTF2 and whaddayanow... it has the HMG...
Then wcp18 got voted...HMG again...
nope nope nope
insta-turnoff and disgust
*quit*

classic should be CLASSIC. Period. Why did they waste all these years in beta to tweak it to almost perfection, only to throw it all away now.

Cancelled sub renewal obv...not feeling like playing anymore now untill they at least remove HMG from classic.

grtz,
Fragty

/listcvars *poi*

edit: cg_powerupPOI 0

"classic should be CLASSIC. Period. Why did they waste all these years in beta to tweak it to almost perfection, only to throw it all away now."

/forums

So you're saying nobody will play Classic CTF because it's unranked?

Why are you always trying to be a smart-ass? stfu already with your bs. You spend more time on these forums than playing the game you're now defending.

S T F U
T
F
U

he's a lost cause.

ask him a serious question and he'll just reply back with a question.

ask him a serious question and he'll just reply back with a question.

Being a smart-ass?

Checks out.

You apparently forgot the part about the serious question.

Everything is serious with you, smart-ass.

Being a smart-ass? You are one dumb motherfucker. But that's nothing new.

fuck off already you piece of shit

Talking big on the internet heh? Whatever. It's not like I'm expecting you to think rationally. Now if you could please go die in a fire, that would make me happy (or at least prevent humanity from getting worse in case you might breed).

just leave, troll

lol

Yeah, that's the vibe out there. It doesn't bother me too too much. But I was chatting with Icebrand, who has the only populated ctf server in NA basically, and he said he wouldn't run classic because he want's to see stats in order to track his improvement as a player. He said he'll probably just not renew his subscription. There was a classic server last night but it was empty.

I see. That's unfortunate. I wouldn't have suspected that stats were that important for some players. I've played so much and had so much fun on unranked servers. People are missing out. Let's hope the mentality will change.

Actually he was running classic tonight, which is good. But still it was 15 mins timelimit and had the HMG :/

15 minutes can be changed easily into 20.

Now the HMG is a problem I didn't think of, though. They changed some maps to add HMG. I guess you can disable its spawn but then you don't have whatever weapon it replaced (if there was one). So classic has been rather contaminated indeed.

I don't feel like it's just the stats. It's also what is the default gametype. Pros and oldschool players might even play it, without an influx of newbies who play just the new gametype and see no reason to play the old one, it'll just diminish slowly, wither away and die. No way around that really, it's like expecting a secondary gametype like PQL to become popular on merit of gameplay.

Here's how I see it :

...as it was before :
Probability for a new player to stick to the game : 5%

...as it is now :
Probability for a new player to stick to the game : 25%
Probability for a new player to move to Classic eventually : 25%

Only time will tell what will actually happen but I doubt it's reasonable to say no newcomer will ever play Classic.

That's awefully negative. Quake was big once, you know.

I found it to be extremely optimistic

I should have said that this is what I hope will happen. But I really doubt the initial "stick to the game" step can be any worse than it was before.

weren't you a halo fan? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

I've never played any Halos so you must be confusing me with somebody else.

H1ghlander I guess, cause Canadaflag :) Sorry.

They all look the same.

Well at least the accents are all equally funny, that's for sure.

What are you talking aboot?

...as it is now :
Probability for a new player to stick to the game : 25%



the steam release will only incite slumming to epic levels. Your percentages are reversed.

I wouldn't have suspected that stats were that important for some players.


you didn't put 2 and 2 together yet? the reasons why this game has so many slummers and statwhores?

I don't play in tier 3 so I can't witness that stuff and the only reports I heard about that came from two guys which I have a hard time taking seriously.

That's a cop out. There was plenty of evidence. You just never bothered to click on any of the links. And there were plenty of reports on the ql forum where new players are posting.

Hi Ray.

This guy is still pissed he wasn't a forum mod in 2009 lol.

All i see now is t1 noobs coming into t4 ffa servers.
it's that play now button.

should be called die now button

Personally I never liked stat tracking for Quake.

It is good to be able to rank players by skill but it is bad for players to be discouraged from having FUN for the sake of protecting/padding their stats.

Q3 servers were unranked and I am certainly fine with playing unranked again.

Proxies/Chaingun/etc were all generally shitty additions to CTF.

Now I massively disagree with default Classic and Turbo not being ranked.

I hope they'll change this after a while and it's just some ploy to try to get people to give the new stuff a real shot.

But get real, prox mines and TA runes did not kill CTF, they didn't exist at all on any non TA map.

Yeah but in pubs, you would be forced to play a TA map pretty frequently. But you may be right. To me, it was one of the things that kept me playing Q3 up until like a year ago.

What I think would keep everyone playing CTF, would be QW/Q2 style runes you have to manage and fight over, and the grapple.

where's the +++++ button?

" But get real, prox mines and TA runes did not kill CTF, they didn't exist at all on any non TA map. "

wrong again... hosted this so many times with mates for the lols, it has by far the biggest fun factor for new players, some of you have no clue what you're talking about at all.

screw the mines (they're still in the game if you want em anyway lol) and also the runed maps without runes and having hmg are entirely ruined now for various reasons.

Dude, You've quoted me saying TA DIDN'T kill CTF, to tell people I'm wrong and that you really enjoyed TA CTF and new players love it ...

misread you, my bad.

I don't see how pissing people off can be a ploy to try a mode that pisses them even more off.

everybody gets pissed off with any change whatsoever, if they think their winning game formula is going to suffer.. It is certainly not perfect, but it's not that bad.

Proximity mines were the very thing that was keeping noobs playing CTF. The vets wanted them gone. So it will create the opposite effect on CTF servers. You will actually see even less activity now with this new change.

I was going to add in something about those mines, they were just an annoyance. Perhaps remove LG, RG, RL and HMG from Loadouts. Mix the others into primary and secondary: Prim = PG or GL, Secondary = MG or SG?

Maybe that would help?

scornforge is the shit

As far as I recall, decent CTF maps have never had proximity mines.

Public CTF is totally unplayable atm, we are forced to play the unranked classic mode.
gg wp id

But what exactly is so bad about unranked games? Super Koziol said in the chat that it would influence shuffles and tier system (if I didn't misinterpret it), but right now this is only a potential issue.

There certainly is a satisfaction of looking at stats. I'd feel disappointed if after playing a few years, my profile would say that I haven't made any frags. It would make me feel that I just wasted time, and won't encourage to continue playing. On the other hand, seeing that you accumulated some number makes you want to increase it even more, keeping you interested in playing more and more.

Basically, what many love about quake is competition, and no stats remove some part of such competition.

This works both ways. Some people were going apeshit about their precious stats, which made playing with them, let's say, less pleasant. But I get your point, I myself love stats, but lately I only check my match, not overall* stats.

*I check my overall accuracy, because I like the fact that it is going constantly up, like .01% every match, because for a long time I played with retarded cfg with retarded mouse and being quakewise retarded.

Unranked as in qlranks does not track it or the quakelive client itself does not track it and doesn't even show that you played a map?

Both are the same thing? Qlranks tracks when it shows up :)

The thing is that you can see it in your match history + in qlranks, but it doesnt add to your accuracy, total games played, frags, deaths etc.

Well that's what I wanted to know. Has something been "cut off" from the data and if then what and to what extent.

Might this be fixed in the near future or should the community just get use to our position under the bus?

Apart from the fact that some statistics aren't updated, the other difference is that unranked games are given a lower priority in the "Play Now" algorithm.

*game is unplayable

RIP

Cry me a river.

The Entitlement Fairy called. Said he wants to buy a yard or two of your vagina sand. Should I tell him you will deliver?

teamsize 5 by default and not changeable: piss off.

15 minutes timelimit: FUCK OFF.

Seriously, is 5 fucking minutes going to change to my life in a QL match? It fucking makes a difference in game but not in your life. It's just 5 minutes you'll spend on another match.

The LG has become useless now it's a shame, as usual.

I have nothing else to say. The idea of reducing the spawn delay between items (weapons mostly) is good.

The timers sucks really. It blows every chance to really challgenge the opponent for an item or to really have control over it. Now nobody counts any more and that difficulty was part of the game's charm in TDM and CTF.

Classic is being unranked, that's just bollocks big time. I hope QLranks will rank it.



QuakeLive, applying all contraries since 2014.

Classic is being unranked, that's just bollocks big time. I hope QLranks will rank it.

QLRanks has been doing that with any unranked game from the start.

It's starting health, "ammo and weapon positioning", that's the problem. Loadouts, big deal, but spawners should not be the strongest players, just reduce their health, should balance it out simples.

The best CTF was always with the 4 Runes total, not 4 each team or infinite Rune option. And goes without saying, "with grapple" with non-grapple and grapple servers imo.

Perhaps there will be this option now that there is a grapple weapon choice. Many asking me "have you been able to spawn a server with grapple yet?". Still no :(

It's starting health, "ammo and weapon positioning", that's the problem. Loadouts, big deal, but spawners should not be the strongest players, just reduce their health, should balance it out simples.

This could actually help. Removing the 25 extra hp would make it even easier to get some frags.

Removing the 25 extra hp would make it even easier to get some frags.

from who's perspective?

(I wasn't on for loadouts from the start, but if they are to be included then there surely has to be a working balance. LG,RG,RL,HMG, out of the choice is another option)

From the perspective of players who want to frag despite having no chances of winning.

Yeah I watched a few FFA's and it looks like it pays to die! Spawn with HMG and rinse all round.

CPM flag modes is still alive=] (ctf/ntf/ctfs)

www.playmorepromode.org
www.cpmpickup.de
www.uscpmpickup.com

#cpmpickup (EU) on irc.quakenet.org
#uscpmpickup (NA) on irc.quakenet.org

ok I have played some ctf with the new changes...

1) I am kind of ok with most changes since its pub (read: for fun), even the item timers is ok in my book, the only thing that is just insulting are the unified ammo packs, thats just taking it too far, I know ctf is full of weapons but I think ammo management should stay part of the game and this is... wrong.

2) HMG is a stupid and unneeded addition for ctf. Remove it completely, Its fine for ffa and loadout or whatever but ctf does not benefit one bit by it.

3) I understand the goal of making things more user friendly, heck I even understand pissing off old schoolers in the process, but this whole unranked business for "classic" is just unwarranted completely. its like saying "hey guys we are gonna make things easier for newcomers, no disrespect for you guys but we wont keep track of your games anymore fuck off lol"

ammo boxes are one of best changes. and why the hell is unranked such a problem? who gives a fuck about something that has no real meaning anyway? ql didn't have leaderboards and similar stuff since closed beta.

Because people like to keep a record of what they've done, some for some misguided epeen reasons, some just to monitor progress.

"ammo boxes are one of best changes."

how? before ammo management was part of the game and was part of the skill involved in some aspects in ctf (and even more in tdm), like deffing on ironworks required good lg / rg ammo management, can give other examples if you wish. How will removing this aspect of the game help noobs?

about leaderboards and stats or whatever, the point is that its about taking away something that was there before with no point to it. it doesnt matter if you or someone else does not respect this feature, it was there and now its gone if you want to play "proper" ctf.

no one should have to remember where ammo boxes are, specially in ctf. on ironworks you just get dropped for weapons you need, and that's pretty much the only map with both main weapons being inacessible enough for the def to not replenish on his own. so ammo boxes actually allow def on ironworks to focus on def instead of collecting weapons every now and then. it's quake, not pokemon.

the leaderboards and stats stopped being relevant in closed/open beta when id removed them from the game. so no, it's not gone if you want to play proper ctf, it never was there for 90% of ql's lifespan. + you still have match history that keeps a record of what you've done.

edit: oh yeah, forgot one more thing about the ammo boxes, unlike the regular ammo boxes they only replenish ammo of weapons you picked up, so they're even more logical than the ammo boxes you claim to be the dealbreaker for you.

"no one should have to remember where ammo boxes are"
again, why the hell not. how does removing one of the basics any newb should learn help that player?

heck with that reasoning, why bother have different weapons around the map? just put a swiss army knife type of weapon on all wep spawns so when you pick it up you get em all! its not pokemon you know...

about your edit: are you sure that with normal ammo boxes you get 5 rg slugs even if you dont have rg? where are you going with this anyway?

edit: I never meant leaderboards, you don't quite understand what I am saying here anyway about stats...

my point is, ammo in ctf is kinda useless. it's not q3 when weapon pickup boosted you by 1 if you had more than starting amount of ammo. and yeah, regular ammo pickup boosts you by 5 regardless of you having or not having the weapon.

ammo in ql is hardly a basic with fast weapon respawns and the way weapon drops work. only mode where ammo is actually important is tdm since weapons respawn every 30s. you're making a big deal out of the least important change. and anyway, the more ammo you have it keeps you longer in the fight.

and you obviously don't understand what i'm saying here about stats. sure your win/loss ratio won't go up or down, but rest of the statistics you and most of the other people won't even notice since we all have pretty old accounts and you can't expect a noticable change in your acc's and weapon usage percentages. basically, what i'm saying is that stats overall are useless cause there is a lack of other mechanics like leaderboards and ladders. it's just a dead number on your profile, like it has always been.

I think you underestimate the importance of ammo, at least ammo types. Even in ctf. As for the changes, the biggest change by far is of course item timers along with lg damage, big change != issue

Same goes for stats, its a dead number for you or me but not to many others. You should not view this with our perspective at all. Some talented young noob kid out there cares alot for stats and certainly notices these changes

Raist for member of QL parliament.

played a couple of rounds of CTF today on skyward, and tbh I'd give it the thumbs up atm, with "loadout partially disabled".

Just mg or sg given on spawn (it didn't look like it was a unranked game). The game was tight so the balance thingy seemed to be ok. Although the ammo was bad, as one or two experienced players, just sat back railing and railed for eternity. As they didn't have to go far for Ammo.

The ammo is convenient if you don't know much about QL ammo management, so would be good for newcomers, but too much in this case with more experienced players.

Glad there was not 7v7 rails on that map...

ammo boxes ruin a lot of maps in that way. skyward already had 5 railslugs-limit on rg pickup. with ammo boxes this whole rail camping takes it to a new level. basically you don't have to worry about ammo for anything on any other map as well.

I agree, and sort suggested a possible solution to that here:

re: == Levelup Loadout suggestion ==

http://www.esreality.com/post/2653928/re-posi...pid2653928

which in turn could be applied to the ammo positioning and management.

The Reason why classic is unranked is just a simple and totally dumb rule in the algorithm. every server which has an other ruleset as the standard spawned server from id are unranked. so if id will launch servers with a pinky and brain rulseset, everything else will be unrankend too. brilliant logic where you can see how short sponge and sinkerror think. funny thing is that raising the timelimit to 20 minutes doesnt make a server unranked. if you remove HMG, then it is. but sponge made it clear, that there wont be achange to that, cause they have to change the algorithm then which seems too much for sponge.

lol CTF is for nerd slops that couldn't hack tdm and are horrible in CA

um no... rapha / l1nk1n / winz just for starters and a million more? Hows that work out? Some can't convert the other way. Seen plenty of TDM, Duellers and CA players fail at CTF strategy.

EDIT: Added Duellers

rofl Duel?

shutup :p Don't ask me about duel, I see how it's played, but suck massively at it :) lets do it, but you'll lose 200 elo

who couldn't handle your 50% lg while looking through walls?