yes ok, since we can't beat AIDS, why not just give it to everyone.

that's not a hack is it, that's a very serious sad condition

and actually have you never heard of nosodes? perhaps you need to understand that what you said can actually work. Why do you think people get flu vaccinations? They are given the virus so that they can beat it.

just go create a map, like a dm6 version with glass walls and call it wallhack.

I take it you didn't read the post then?

can i suggest you to lurk more?

can I suggest change your name to gtfo?

i'm sorry i've hurt your feelings

um, ok, but there is no hurt

He was sarcastic.

and me impassive

I believe some scientists don't share information about AIDS because it would become so worthy that it would be dumb to share to others instead to monopoly that, unless it becomes an epidemic issue like Ebola.

perhaps the underground "epidemic" is too good for the undetected.

Way too many cheat sympathisers on this forum, especially those who are +'ing each other, for something which has not been addressed in ages.

Which is ID and other game titles makers / addressing the issues and / or informing us of steps being made, in removing as many types of cheats as possible.

And honestly I cannot think about some software or something else to prevent cheat. But I guess I have a good idea, but it will need some person that would take a seat and watch games every day. Like you push a bottom in your keyboard that would call a "Watcher" to the game, so if other people that are watching the game and the guy is cheating more people push the bottom so it will increase the importance for the "Watcher" to be there and catch the cheater, so he will be summoned and he as an Admin will ban him.

What do you think about it? Can something be improved in this idea? is this idea sh*t ?

what you say is a nice idea ;) value for money is the business model that ID have to think about, is it worth it to keep retention?

Could you specify retention in this case?

what do you mean?

you mean retention as holding the person as the person will get paid for?

retention / retaining them / keeping them in the game. Relating to quake players new or old.

Yes I guess this would keep more players on servers I believe.

Yes definitely, that's what its all about, its all about FUN at the end of the day,.

And its not just about the winning part, because there are always going to be people who are just awesome at some things. You take Einstein, Bolt (hope he's legit, and doesn't get contaminated or swings the wrong way!) and then you get football & fusbal, everyone can play it, and still get the competitive edge from it, but yet still have a load of fun. at all levels.

You remember that football link you posted to me in imsg? Same sort of thing!


(didn't have to look up that word in the dictionary too. see.. :P)

nobody cheats bro

are you a
troll,
cheater,
or idiot?

Maybe all 3 options ?

i have quite a hard time finding cheaters...honestly games such as bf3 or cod4+ and csgo had much more from what i can tell. Im lucky to see 1 cheater per month in QL....and those accs are kinda obvious in cheating terms then.

really?

no (or) he is all of the above.

CHIDIOTROLL
C
H
I
D
I
O
T
R
O
L
L


although a legimate thing would be overwatch feature of veterans, players send in demos, and wolfcam-like feature shows you the entire game with cg_wh 1 and ze veterans can determine this. For doing this or helping spot cheaters you could get a bonus week or smth added to your pro/premium subscription

voíla.

I like the idea of bonus packs, especially for contributions made, for e.g. potentially what you said, but other things like input, time unpaid out of the sheer love of the game, and ideas /stuff that ID have actually implemented, which were successful.

I use a special fov

99% LG for everyone, not just for the guitar players - yay!







yay0

see that's the only issue I see currently, but perhaps too naīve to know all of the cheats.

hello daddy?

where is he, he's the man who knows

The daddy is eevrywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you start up Quake.

he played me about 3 months ago, was very intense fighting, he did obviously kane me, but it was fun, as I knew.

the daddy has you!

note to self: this is too easy.

Thing is, I know he posts them to youtube, I am just waiting to see an awesome video of some pinnage.

Truly everywhere. Even on my ignore list. : D

the problem with things, as you salivate, it's the people who know the least, fear the most.

And delete that stupid picture on this thread. Doing my eyes in.

What the hell?

i hope you had fazz permission

[img1]

worst. idea. ever.

you a cheater? and how is this different from the item timing clocks and dmg plumbs, obviously you have got no issues with wall hacking.

Let me put it simple for the few braincells you got. If you want ql dev to spend hundreds hours developing even further noobed down gameplay with wtfCheatMode, don't you think it's better for them to actually take that time writing a working anti-cheat?

What you are suggesting isn't fighting fire with fire, it's figthing nukes with nukes.

that's absolute rubbish, what anti-cheat system has ever worked properly?

Get with the times and read up on some shit, were ideas in the past, implemented and actually benefited the game.

Im currently uploading a video from a wallhackers POV

:)

can't wait!

if its so non important to you why even be here.

Exactly?!))

Sounds like op wants to cheat but not get banned.

get skillz faggot.

innit

dude I have never cheated in my life in any game, so why not cast your judgments on something you know about. If your a cheater fan, then stay away from this thread. Go get some up to date images, they are a bit old now.

Whine more, that's always the solution nowadays. You are suggesting everyone gets hacks. Well why not just do it for all games. I mean, watch AGDQ, see the exploits, why bother making game content. If one person can hack it let's give the hack to everyone. We'll save on game design and development.
I heard some people cheat on their taxes and everything. How about we ask the politicians to let everyone to it so we can crash the economy, start a civil war and go back to the stone age instead of trying to catch them?

For you anyone against giving hacks to everyone is a cheater. Seems kind of contradictory to me.

I see maybe a hacker once every 3-4 months on QL. Do you know what I do about it? Nah, I don't report it or anything. I just beat him. Because unless they make a heavy use of aimbot which is super obvious and very quickly banned, trash is trash and can't beat actual skill in this game.

Seriously this is the most retarded post I have ever seen here. And I am talking about ESR, which sets the bar pretty high.

read it properly that's not the case.

that's rich coming from a lesbian

how dare you!

that's what it says on your profile

this is not about me goby

It is simple, you don't have to built your gameplay based on aim, watch your demos, study the respawns and the positioning you have to had by spawning closed to items, etc. Practice your movement and your aim. After all these implications you build your strategy.

*Or you can actually do it by the other way around, ...there is not a universal recipe as to become a top player.

this is not about instructions for game play! This is about a simple issue of eradicating cheats. In one way or another, as it has not been addressed.

I guessed if the person had in mind of "improve gameplay" the cheat topic wouldn't be so relevant, I tried to show something different here. But yeah, this are not instructions for gameplay.

perhaps your right though, instructions are good, however cheating isn't solely about not being able to play, its about not being able to play at the level that you want to be at. There are some barriers that players cannot get past, and then cheat.

Unfortunately this is the situation, they cannot transcend a barrier so they cheat. You kinda summed it very well man.

You must be kidding. Your idea has the same level as "lg nerf prevents aimbot"

"aim assist prevents aimbot"

we need aim assist for joystick users

lol, probably too true :) although that other guy who's known for his gamepad play, doesn't.

the lg is not the point here, how do you think the weapons evolved the way they are?

the introduction of timers to items, and the dmg plums, are actually eliminating the power of the cheaters, or making it harder for them.

pls elaborate lol

so you can't see that? well perhaps you need to think harder.

There has been a large increase in new accounts that have only a few hours played with these guys hitting 50% LG and 70% rail.

When you spectate them they don't strafe jump, RJ or do anything that would indicate they are an experienced quake player. It's really obvious they are using an aimbot, especially when their crosshair does 180 degree flicks and locks straight onto someone for 50% LG.

well a large increase in accounts is a good thing, as steam just released ;) but if you know of these, where are they?

I can relate to the first paragraph. )

Not to the second though.

yes. but I suppose it depends on what he has seen and how fast this 180 exact lock is, and how often. But for many good FPS players doing a 180, and locking to 50% is poor, if the person is chasing +forward at the players back at the start.

With the "not to the second though" I wasn't exactly thinking about the 180-50 lg part.

yes, its quite a common adaption to FFA now, to turn round immediately :) As you know someone is trying to run at you from behind, and you can then hit 75% to 100%, quite funny :)

When you've played this game for 14 years you can tell when someone's aim isn't human.

Even the 'humanised aimbots' have little tells. This guy wasn't using that type of aimbot though, it was blatantly obvious. I probably wouldn't have picked up on it so quickly if it was the humanised aimbot though.

What I was implying that I hit those accuracies almost everytime in FFA since loadouts.

I am lost mate. What's the general idea of this?

I hear this a load about cheaters, yes or no, some true claims some false. Many lesser skilled starter noob's (not their fault not to know yet) just think that someone who hits a direct rocket is a cheat. But does not understanding the 100 dmg it delivers directly.

I BET you were totally drunk when you wrote that. Does not udnerstanding of the lesser skilled starter noob's? It's like HabeebDaPro all over again (remember that dude from QL forums?)

Punkbuster does obviously not work properly enough. So what are the cheats?

Punkbuster is BACK? It is again in QL? When where how who? Anyone? I thought it was removed a long time ago?

I think that what you mean is that cheats should be available so ppl know how to fight them. This would effectively kill the game, because if you can autoaim, predict enemy movements and see everyone everywhere you can basically let the game play itself and go get some coffee. This makes entire skill and fun element completely removed from the equation. Why don't we go further and make a game that ends in 1 seconds with perfect score for anyone and 100% accuracy?

The thing that would help this game A LOT would be a HOW TO SPOT A CHEATER instructional video made by id and/or community and implemented into QL training. So newbies can see where and when they might suspect anything.

No, cheaters must be punished. We do this everyday. We make them feel the hot rod of righteousness right up in their asses. We make them fear so they don't know the hour nor day of their doom. They make accounts, change ISPs - but theyre already on the run and won't be able to outrun us.

I pity da fool who cheats but pity the one who is caught even more.

Punkbuster is BACK? It is again in QL? When where how who? Anyone? I thought it was removed a long time ago?

No, it's not back.

So I thought. Where he sees Punkbuster is a mystery to me.

who said anything about punkbuster being back? Just manipulate the words to suit yourself. If it did work it would be used.

Exact wording in the post TOPIC as above

"Punkbuster does obviously not work properly enough."

This is not stating it is in use.

I think you don't understand what I wrote. I thought the PB might be bac, and FS explained to me that no such thing, PB is still removed. Nothing more, nothing less. No manipulation of words.

well ok, just a weird way of putting it

Where he sees Punkbuster is a mystery to me

going with your other quote of

I BET you were totally drunk when you wrote that.

Not interested in a slagging match, nor in taking the heat for something which has sat for years with no one grabbing it by the balls and doing anything about it. Letting the haxors profit financially in "ruining our game"? yeah that's really cool.

Yeah, it was a weird way of putting what I had in mind.
BTW. I think that getting an anticheat implemented is the only way to get this shit under control.

I agree, some sort of anti-cheat seems to be the way forward, but it has proven to be too difficult for them to manage or something.

Many don't like the pb lag effect, so where do you win? Do they moan about the lag effect because they are cheaters, or because it is really lag effect?

ideally some information to the community by ID of what is being done, or when it might be addressed would be of benefit.

Heh, you know that part about community getting info on anticheat really made me emotional :D
Why? Because you have the same problem as me. You would like the devs to listen to us and tell us what's being done to fix the problem. The problem is, they don't care. We are largely in the fog here.

Sometimes I think that PB was still better than nothing. Sometimes I remember all the issues and moaning about it and wonder whether it was really worth the entire fuss.
I'd say that cheaters were obviously the ones who complained the most about PB lag. Anything that messes with their gravy train is an obstacle for them = PB certainly was.

Some people say that PB was a failed software that made more problems than it solved. Sometimes I wonder whether it wasn't still better than nothing. Now we have cheaters come to this forum and say "hey, I cheat with the cheapest shit possible! Haha, what a fail!" And that is true. Because right now the only anticheat we have is community that reports the cheaters to QL support. And that support has IMMENSE lag in some cases, probably because they have so many cheaters to ban.

I'm all about getting anticheat back, could be punkbuster, could be anything else, but SOMETHING must be implemented.

couldn't be more with you on all points, it is at least a start. and yes its usually the cheaters who make the most noise, or the ones who remain silent, watching with interest, as it affects them the most. Their false elo pride knocked, their years of forgery screwed with. Would be nice to see something effective in place, and see how many accounts actually don't remain as good as they were, or just become inactive! ;)

like I said overwatch feature where the veterans get to determine whether it's worth looking at or not, and the support brings the final verdict. Hence only demos with actual suspicions being checked, therefore cheaters =bän

Yeah. That would be cool.
The only part that worries me is whether people would actually be organized well enough to perform their "duty" without any lapses or skips. You know, it's voluntary.....or not? Maybe an incentive for ppl to do this?

veteran memberrank or w/e should be granted to oldschool members with a history of actual success.

In my eyes higher veterans are people like:

baksteen
plazma
ins
p0ni
GEKKO

(just a broad example).

regardless if 4/5 players think that 1 demo is suspicious, the demo will only be shown to support due to it being deemed so. But the final verdict is always from the support.

You'kno

hence: avoiding 1300 elo players blaming their losses on wallhack/aimbot, e.g knowing spawns = wallhack or spawnhack ;)

Good idea. I'd second that.

yes, sounds good for community building

Also what you said about [reward] in another post, for valued input, is a good idea for everyone who has contributed in some way or another, in this and other aspects of the game development. Re: unpaid helping time, for the continuity of the game, information gathering, ideas and contributions that ID have actually implemented, which were successful. I sort of touched on it above, on cez_'s post re: bonus pack / contribution membership handout's, probably good to feel in touch with the company, and not just the blind guinea pig.

So what's hard to understand, "Many lesser skilled starter noob's"
You could get a starter who comes from another FPS and is skilled. Don't you get that.

no one said anything about punkbuster being back in the game, however it doesn't work in many other titles. If it did work do you not think it would be back?

nope, you couldn't have got it more wrong, you saying "cheats should be available " is weird from your character. If your thinking give everyone an aimbot is the answer, well your reading it wrong. Have you actually played any QL recently?

nothing to do with cheats being made available, that's rubbish.

So if ID were to do this instruction manual, don't you think that would give away their methods of detection?

Methods of detection are well known among the community. Also, the cheat types are largely well-known.

So if I interpreted your post wrong, explain to me what do you want to do regarding the cheats.

yes I agree. and accepted, as this topic post was more of a stimulus than a solution (I love the biters who go with others views and jump on the bandwagon in pointing the "cause of all cheat related issues at me" n1).

So back to the point, the cheat types that are well known, are still being used, and adapted, and less easy to spot. The question is what is being done? This thread was not about anything other than raising the issue, from many other threads about cheating, arising more commonly than b4.

One point on times, well the solution to add in timers to other game modes (other than duel) was welcomed easier than expected. Although duellers and classic were not touched.

I bet using timer cheats / wave files / macros / stream timer watchers etc etc for respawns of ALL "Armour" and "Mega" in untouched duel / or classic TDM CTF for that matter, could add around 1000 elo points to accounts, alone, so I am sure that this would be pretty touchy for some players..

It is also to do with that other thread the guy "i don't cheat thread" and went about sending demos etc to ID and then when asked to do a video of him playing to prove that he / she wasn't cheating, he STFU. So it seems that ID are not capable of catching them, if he was cheating. which seemed pretty blatantly obvious. This scenario is an even worse situation.

So if they can't catch them, what do you do.

That's an enormous problem IMO. I think that some cases reviewed by support only show that they prolly just brush over the submitted cheater tickets and either ban them as they go or just leave them be. I'm not that well versed in exact numbers - some of my pals who are members here and catch cheaters frequently could tell you more - but I have a feeling reinforced by many comments that id support is ineffective. No wonder though; They probably get a lot of requests.

The cheater sumbissions have another problem in themselves - some ppl report cheating because they want revenge on guys who beat them or mistake experience for cheats.

A case in point: If I have headphones on, I can hear well every player thats around me. If that player makes a jump noise on jumppad and I know its height and speed of jump I can shoot a rocket so it will pummel him in the face just as he emerges at the top of the pad. If a player makes noise moving, I can deliver a nade to him or rocket him from around the corner. If a player disappears at the one side of the pillar, in 99% of cases he will reemerge at the other one ready for rail or rocket.

It's these simple things that comprise of many reports about cheating. Especially noobs are easy to pick on because they use predictable patterns of movement and dodging.

So I suppose that the support has also many cases that are of legitimate players being wrongly accused. This saps their efficiency. The automated system has no such problems. It detects injected code and immediately disconnects/bans player.

Many people argue that if we make anticheat, cheaters will bypass that. Yeah, it will eventually happen. But the number of script kids having a blast with their self-written or $20 crap cheats will be solved and it will be the cheaters who are on the defensive, trying to solve the riddle of bypassing security. Now it's the other way around.

yes

A case in point: If I have headphones on, I can hear well every player thats around me. If that player makes a jump noise on jumppad and I know its height and speed of jump I can shoot a rocket so it will pummel him in the face just as he emerges at the top of the pad. If a player makes noise moving, I can deliver a nade to him or rocket him from around the corner. If a player disappears at the one side of the pillar, in 99% of cases he will reemerge at the other one ready for rail or rocket.

There is some validity in written explanations of this type of scenario, to inform people of what can be learnt as a tutorial, for that progression in skill level. Then perhaps less will need to cheat to achieve their goals, and eliminate frustration, as they can actually get better at the game, and perhaps reduce what you say, that [revenge] type cheat call.

your last point about script kids, yeah I don't see why it can't be a problem to add anticheat, and can eliminate those $20 code scripters, and make the other hack writers do some work for their ill gained money.

I think it boils down to educating people how to play the game properly.
Im still amazed they havent even issued any info for anticheat. Apart from id adding anticheat, what's your take on this? What should we do instead?

are the quakelive forums down?

There is not much info that I can see, but am not going to go trolling for a document somewhere in a thousand pages, However as you say, [educating people], it should be made readily available.

but this search below doesn't really give much info other than requests for anticheat, going back to at least 2010 (then I stopped):

First topic in google search is:
Feb 19th 2011
"Please we need some good and strong anti-cheat software"

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=bc...anti-cheat

or anticheat

your last question, is not for me to answer, that's what this topic is about, maybe ask JC or John Rom, he might know.

Yeah it seems the QL forums are either under maintenance or down completely.

And youre right, that topic surfaces like a dead whale.

The best way I can see to deal with cheaters aside from overwatch, reporting and anticheats. Is for the community to actively condemn and maybe kick aliasing players who don't reveal their main account and have consistent aim that is say, 40+ lg and 50+ rg etc.

Of course it's not bullet proof and has many flaws such as old school players coming back or cheaters lying about their main account. But, least it's something.

Consistent high accuracy doesn't mean anything, you have to know how they get these acc too, many aliases get high acc, but they don't use many cells for instance, and also they don't take risks in their shots, they only use LG in positions they're sure they'll get high dmg/acc, or where others can't dodge their beam, if you look at it this way you're gonna miss cheaters who actually use aim assist and spam so much that they end up with 30% LG, but once you are close and you're right in their crosshair you'll feel that you can't escape the beam at all...

Yeah a good idea. The problem isn't with good players having good aim, but it's with the obvious new account cheats with the classic dodgy tracking.

I guess the harder the process of creating new accounts for similar ip's or new accounts under the same email address the better via steam. At least it makes it more complicated for the average cheater. Is it really worth all the hassle over and over again. Hopefully not.

Maybe its steams job too, more ip logging or something?

I guess nothing is bullet proof.

easy 1 step guide: l2p

what guide?

but two step verification when adding a new account to steam, via phone text? perhaps a solution?

it's easy to beat poverty, you just need to print money and give it to everybody!

I prefer beating poverty with my fists.

hah, canadian, beating something, with their fists, even better, a canadian beating anything with anything ;))

Did I touch a sensitive nerve?

that's more like canadians, politely asking if something wrong, rather than using them fists ).

lol @ how bad this thread creator wants to cheat hehehe cross eyed muppet

go back to "lemmingwinks" with your random ideas, you cheat sympathiser

rofl how incredibly mad are you........morbidly obese shirt soaked while sitting there doing nothing mongoloid basement dweller....rofl

Nice image you have corrupted in your sawdustbox

esr has more crazies than any other site i've seen

If your pointing the finger at me, well go screw yourself, if your talking about ESR in general, then yes, there are quite a number of ones, who jump on the bandwagon to get a few +'s by writing a common theme that they want to become popular with ^^

so tell me o wise one, what's so crazy about trying to address cheating? or is it something that's going to affect you?

I love how I look at my post replies and see the first bit of a post, then click it to see the actual post and the person has edited it to be something completely different, because I only see the original post on the "replies" page. It kind of gives me a window into the poster's thought process. In your case, you just had to make your post a little more crazy.

no I took out the obscenities, for your sake, towards tw*ts like u
EDIT: here have it back

Changing game to try to give same chances to normal player and to cheater? Hmm, this will be another game at all.

Problem with cheating in general is that input into game can be replaced by corrected input and nothing can prevent people from doing this.
So, if someone wants to catch cheater then he must to try to do it at server side.

The only tool to beat cheating guys is signal processing (processing of mouse movement input of player, that can be taken from any recorded demo or recorded real time at server side).
You need to do this signal, analyze it to get set of markers (each one for answering specific question) and using these markers values to give final decision.
This is what will work.

Sure, demos recorded in client and demos recoded by server suffer from many problems. These problems should be solved to get better quality of recording which will allow more precise results of signal analysis.

But creating such anti cheat is really hard job to do.
I realized this only when I tried to implement something working.

0) You have to hire person with deep understanding of your game, desirably with rich experience of creating and using cheats for it.
1) You have to hire specialist in signal processing (patterns, etc).
2) You have to buy consultation on artificial intelligence topics.
3) You have to complete a LOT of research work to get effective approach (finding nice patterns for example).
4) You have to make sure that you don't use any patented by others technologies.

Part 0 is must have, as no one of game creators plays game as long live cheater does.

I think that most problematic part here is 4. Real pain.
Try to think about something and you will find it as something already patented by Sony, IBM, etc.
I had really nice ideas (applied to Quake) and I was really disappointed by seeing them all already patented!

1-3 are extremely expensive.

So, taking into account current situation with money in Quakelive, I say that working anti cheat will not be implemented at all.

very informative, and yes. your summary, at the end, well can't something like pb be implemented without much hassle? I mean it eliminates some blatant hackers in CS-Go, but not all (but makes it more difficult to hack) and there are still masses more people playing that game, so surely the lag effect cannot be that much of an issue for a more popular game title.

only ID know the story, of their financial might, but surely zenimax can see the potential of keeping the game populated, without more rage quit drop offs. In any business you want retention factor as high as possible. Especially with their business model of pay per month / quarter / year.

Cheats are:

Wallhack (can see enemy when they would otherwise be obscured)

Autofire (automatically shoot when crosshair is on enemy, or over certain color that the enemy has, almost as good as an aimbot)

Aimbot (Simply aims for the player and has the possibility to achieve inhuman accuracy numbers.)

Sound based timers, where a sound is played that is x seconds long, and beeps or w/e when an item would spawn. As far as I can tell QL prevents this.

General exploits that should be subjected to community consideration. Most of these are going to be tolerated and up to the devs to fix, but could really upset the community and be considered cheats in plenty of cases.

Grey area:

Script based timers.

Things that are not against the rules:

Winning. (I think it needs to be said really)

Getting a high, or very high accuracy. (only being 'helped' to do this is!)

What can be done:

It should be noted that cheating cannot be completely prevented without total control over the software on a player's machine. Even then there are possibly ways to get around things.

Still, the best way to prevent cheats is to actively block them. When new cheats surface, developers either take steps to block it in their software, or even better, update an external anti-cheat that looks for cheat programs and prevents them.

When this cannot be done the best route is to have a good reporting system and ban enforcement. QL is doing about the best they can at this, but it would be better to have a larger team of people handling it, and access to customized tools that improve accuracy and certainty of detection. The community can be engaged in helping to identify cheaters and sending in demos.

thx,

Sound based timers, where a sound is played that is x seconds long, and beeps or w/e when an item would spawn. As far as I can tell QL prevents this.

unfortunately it doesn't, there are many mice that actually do this.

every keyboard is able to do this: just bind helpful 25/30 secs .wav files to two of your keys = profit.

well with that knowledge, it's even worse, so what's your solution?

play ca, play ffa with loadouts? :)

on a more serious note, i believe the steam integration will help. bans carry a little more weight now.

lol :)

They have chosen Valve and Steam, so they should now actually get some ballz, and get everyone to play on steam, like NOW, and get anticheat on like NOW b4 its just gone too l8. It's stil never too l8

If they don't want to go onto steam who cares.

Sod all this (oh my .bat works faster) that's rubbish.

Yeah I agree, I wonder if they can integrate a 2 step verification option for new accounts. Email and text phone. This would surely mean that you would have least have to get another SIM if you wanted another account. More complicated the better to counter the multiple cheat hacker accounts. And if they are kids, well use your Parents / guardians.

Although there are plenty of cheats in CS-GO and they still keep out populating most tittles, wonder how that works?

uhhh what. you have no idea what you are talking about. neither quake nor 2-factor auth ... :Y

Good list.
But I think that most devastating cheats are aimbots and all efforts must be done towards eliminating aimbots use.

Rest of cheats are something less important (but significant!).
Any way wall hack, auto shoot and timers will never have chance to be detected. I think that cheaters have less fun using these kinds of cheats compared to aimbots.

For example wall hack.
One can write cheat that will see target behind wall, but will not show target to user. But it will still use information about target behind wall for proper attention focusing mechanism (some piece of code that helps player not to aim, but just turn to side of target by using sound, speed and direction of target moving, etc).
So with such cheat model user will not show any awareness of target behind wall! And you will need to think really hard to answer question if this user is cheater or not.
Think a bit and you will take such cheat model to another level, where you will not even see any magic skills or strange shots, everything will look like a real game.

"the best way to prevent cheats is to actively block them"

This requires a lot of work. And its not possible physically when community grows.
If one will go, take some working public cheat and submit it to quakelive support, then he will see that such public cheat will stop working after half of year or so and such long handling time implies that this cheat stopped to work due to another activity then dedicated work for stopping of this cheat work)

"have a good reporting system"

Reporting system works good only if some automated tools exist.
You can not see with eyes, what automated tool can.
This is very gentle point for most people (including developers) to understand.
Without automated tools reporting system works same as currently in quakelive - does not work.


Problem of almost every modern shooter is that it was designed from beginning without even looking on cheating problem.
And it is really hard to change things in completed product.
Solution is - external anti cheat like Fairfight.

"community can be engaged in helping to identify cheaters "

People want to have fun, playing game. They don't want to waste their time on sitting in specs and recording some punk playing with aimbot. I think its not good to involve people in developer's problem.

Besides all this interesting stuff with signal analysis, complicated anti cheats, etc, ID can take base of all games played and treat it as big DATA. Then build engine of nice queries to ban people.
Even without ranking system there can be found very interesting facts.

For example ID guys can look for such pattern:
5 duels in a row between same two players that looks like this:
5 games on same map:
1) Player1 wins 25:6
2) Player2 wins 15:1
3) Player2 wins 16:3
4) Player2 wins 20:6
5) Player2 wins 25:6

This is very common pattern where Player2 is cheater.
No answer about Player1. Only about Player2.
Found 20 such cases in last 180 days for some player? = > Permanent ban.

Other example:
Find players who played 5 games in last months in 16 players server with results:
1) Win
2) Deaths 5 or lower
3) Damage delivered - 20% above damage delivered of player at second place.

Give to these players permanent ban.
If not sure, then look on server skill.
If server skill is low, don't give ban, give warning.
If server skill is high - > give ban.

This is what Fairfight guys will do if Quakelive will subscribe to Fairfight. No need in any demo submissions, discussions, etc.
Pure mind ownage )

Check whole database from beginning of the game. Get MACs of users, ban everyone by these MACs. No mercy. Cheater once - cheater forever.

This is very powerful mechanism, because you can ask a lot of questions and check how much triggers work for given player (cross validation).
When player crosses some limit of triggers he gets banned and he can not even suppose what exactly lead him to ban.

What will happen with such system is that cheaters will get human faces and will cheat with light mod)) Not as it is done today.

1) Player1 wins 25:6
2) Player2 wins 15:1
3) Player2 wins 16:3
4) Player2 wins 20:6
5) Player2 wins 25:6.

Lets imagine Player1 lower skilled compared to PLayer2. But in game one Player2 didnt pay too much attention or maybe raged for some reason. Then he got himself into the right mood and stomped this sharpie. He got banned while being clean. What now?

This is what Fairfight

This is extremly bad system. Basically it considers everyone above average as a cheater. I got kicked/banned form numerous of BF4 servers because of this bs system. This system thinks that you can not own clueless overegoed noobs 100-2 on round of lockers rush.


And there are copious amount of such flaws in this kind of methods. It has been proven countless times that reporting cheaters with recorded demo is the best way to get rid of them. In the end it will always come to the point where some staff memeber has to make the decision.

1) Please read example with this duels games)
I say this is not a single case. This played has such games constantly.

2) Besides that, if you are good to win player like 20:5, you just can not lose with same score) Whatever other side does, you just win (with any winning score). This is reality in quake.
When you got closer to some better player1, you play really tight close games for some time, no games like 20:0 happens between you and this player1. And getting above player1 is also slow process that takes not 1 day and not 1 week (if you play him constantly and other players with same rating as yours/same skill).
You can go, play against some really skilled player2 (300 elo above you), losing to him a lot, but getting some skills you never had before and then come back and win your close games buddy player1 like 20:5.
But this can happen ONLY if you had ENOUGH games against really strong player2.
All skill changes are traceable for player who plays legit and constantly.
And if suddenly player starts to beat players with 300 elo above in every round (without previously losing enough to higher rated players) , then no legit explanation for this exist and you can ban such player right away.
No fast changes can happen (at all). This is pretty natural, if you think about it.

Fairfight system is OK.
Question to you: why to play in server of clueless noobs with score 100-2?
Answer: no reason, only to ruin fun to people.
That's why you got kicked and banned.

Sounds good? I think my logic is ok here. Do you agree?

Question to you: why to play in server of clueless noobs with score 100-2?

Because that is what the BF4 audience really is mostly? You are not going to find anything better in that game hence I quited it :D



That's why you got kicked and banned.

:D:D:D
Not my fault they are so bad after houndreds of hours spent in that game alone. And tbh it gets boring after couple of such rounds.

P.S. and you know, there is a kick/ban message, which tells you the reason. I got kicked for killing too much by admins of the server, I am fine with it because they own the server so they can do whatever they want. But those were autokick from fairfight plugin just because I hit certain K/D ratio or SPM or whatever other bs meaningless stat.

P.P.S Anyways you are shifting from the discussion. All your arguments so far is "the system is OK". And you did not cared enough to even try to deny my legit arguments about false positive bans which are very real.

Why to put kicks/bans of admins and Fairfight?
This is meat and milk. Don't mix them.

About "false positive bans".
Fairfight is about to protect people from someone who can ruin their fun. From cheaters and from skilled players too. If server has skill limit, then nobody cries, right? Also when you join server you know that this is noobs server, so why to join at all?
So, for people that still join, ban/kick system like Fairfight is very good in my opinion. Nobody cares that you are skilled and not just cheater.
Problem that you cause is that you ruin fun. That's all.

This is meat and milk. Don't mix them
I suggest you reread my post. If anything, thats you who are incapable of undestanding written text.

Fairfight is about to protect people from someone who can ruin their fun
then better implement matchmaking than some usless thing which kicks at the moment when you go above average?

Also when you join server you know that this is noobs server, so why to join at all?
and how do I know it exactly? There is no mm system or any other option to learn what is the skill level of players on the server I am joining. Wise server admins put noobs only in server name, but most of them do not do this even though the regular audience is low skilled.


So now when you do not have valid arguments for your bs statements you say that fairfight is there to protect from tier slummers rather than provide anticheat. You can not even stick to your original point :/

Pff, OK.
What is my original point? Can you remind me?
I told you everything that I think about Fairfight.

It's a nice idea, but seems to have too many outside factors, what happens when I change ISP form my 65 ping to 5-15 ping. I will have a massive advantage over that player who I played against regularly, who was also on 65-70 ping. Will I then get banned?

Ping change can be taken into account, its simple.

some interesting ideas in above post, but I agree, my example is upgrading equipment, e.g. shitty laptop for last 2-3 years, with terrible stats, to proper desktop with better kdr. Would be a bummer and pain in the pocket to get banned at MAC level for that.

This is not what will BOOST your capabilities in one day.
I think it will be spread on some period of time (maybe a week or so).

That can't be true, id say the opposite. Its like training Usain bolt in nikes, then training him in a pair of clogs, and then giving him Nikees back, He's still going to run the shit out of 100 meters.

Well, maybe I try to judge people by my own experience, but I know that when I go from ping 85 to 30 then my whole aim goes off for some two week. I learn to aim on low ping. That's all.

Any way wall hack, auto shoot and timers will never have chance to be detected. I think that cheaters have less fun using these kinds of cheats compared to aimbots.

I would say the opposite, and that people who use timers, health / armour hacks and wall hacks, have a much more enjoyable experience, of not having to worry one bit about the location of the enemy, nor the timing of the armours, nor the health and armour levels the user currently has. Probably very stress free, and desirable thing to have, but ultimately a CHEAT. out of game modification / enhancement.

This Never word is rubbish. Although, timers have been in effect since 1997-8 to my knowledge, known about, but undetected / and not dealt with, that's a lloooonggggg time to have it still around.

For example wall hack.
One can write cheat that will see target behind wall, but will not show target to user. But it will still use information about target behind wall for proper attention focusing mechanism (some piece of code that helps player not to aim, but just turn to side of target by using sound, speed and direction of target moving, etc).
So with such cheat model user will not show any awareness of target behind wall! And you will need to think really hard to answer question if this user is cheater or not.

If I read what your saying, your saying a HAck, to disguise the fact that they know, you know they are there?

Think a bit and you will take such cheat model to another level, where you will not even see any magic skills or strange shots, everything will look like a real game.

what "you" wrote at the end is exactly the opposite of what would happen..... It may not be the complete idea to eliminate wall hacking, but as an "IDEA" it would actually even up the balance.

Do you know about the icons above team players heads?

The idea of spotting, would be the opposite to what you suggest, maybe even creating more spectacular shots. Although I see your point. somewhat.

However if someone your playing against has done the "spot test too", they may see that triangle coming round the corner. (1-2 seconds is not a long time for it to be visible, a small icon above head).

As for someone else suggesting hundreds and thousands of hours making a modification in development, of such a project, WELL it is already implemented into CA and Team games to see team members triangle icon through walls, just add in cg_timerLengthforshowingteam/Enemytriangle 0-1-2-3.

You know what, it might even get some of the shite tactics of LG RL BACK RAPE, hiding round a corner out of the equation too ;P

Anway, Anticheat is at least a start.

Ducksfromtrucks is totally legit and he just prefires every corner 5 seconds before I come around then spams smilies knowing that I know he's hacking out of his face.

fuck u

what

http://gfycat.com/NervousAccomplishedFluke#

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/matches/ducksfromtrucks

Ouch. This legit player probably talked badly and got banned for that.

Legit my ass lmao

Joking )

owch indeed

There are 20x more haccusations than actual hackers.

hactual?

Pretty optimistic estimate.

Nice one Error; account Validation, too many incorrect attempts to log in. Touch a nerve with a cheater?

Dyno

if we just let everyone log into anyone's account this wouldn't happen

ID should introduce wh but only for premium users.... profit!

Back again, to continue the thread of ousting cheating from the system. It's funny when you attack the hackers, they attack back with more ferocity. I wonder if that was the case for any company who tried to prevent this type of action. More DOS attackers etc, until the anti-cheat systems were taken offline. Perhaps ID / companies need to employ, someone who knows the hacking game, and has converted to the good path.

it's one of the dumbest things i have ever read on esr. i admire your will to fix the problem but your solution is the dumbest idea ever to any born QUAKER. the worst part about it is that you take everything literally, and anyone who doesn't support your idea is a cheat sympathizer? if anynone, that would be you, you're the one asking for a fucking wallhack GET REAL YOU NOOB.

everyone knows ur a hacker, mate.
ofc you would disagree with the brilliant ideas of dinodeath!

Just bring up your arguments. Why to swear right away.

ofc you like the idea no? you got an award yourself (!)

which bit don't you like, the idea of the server side anticheat system or the client side system?

i dont mind an anticheat at all.

what i dont like is implementing hack features to legitimize such incapable players.

They have already done that though with dmg plums and timers on items, and giving highpowered weapons to players from spawn. But I am glad you and I both agree hacks are not the way forward.

I think looking at damage plums/timers/loadouts as providing "hack features" is a pretty twisted perspective.

The vast majority of cheating players aren't much interested in this, just wallhack and aim assistance.

It likely has no effect at all on the number of cheaters, and if it did it would be to increase them since some players want to troll the game due to frustration over the changes.

There are no features to be implemented that would prevent cheating, unless you consider anti-cheating measures to be a feature.

Wallhack or aim assistance simply cannot be allowed in quake, just like seeing the cards of other players in poker cannot be allowed. It breaks the game.

I agree to all of the points, This Topic was nothing but a stimulus to think.

They took this idea of Wall hack into Quake Champions with Visor.

ITT: schizm actually used the reply button to reply to a post

lol

you believe lots of people are hacking and your solution is to distribute hacks to the lesser players? this line of thinking is what got 98% of all cheaters to cheat in the first place. you... do realize that?!

I'm not going to comment on the rest of this crap, get some skill and understanding of the game first, please.

I don't believe lots of people are hacking, I do know that some are, and doing it very well, and have done for many years. It depends what you mean as a hack? They have already integrated plums into the game, so is that not like giving a hack?

Personally I don't give a shit about cheaters, as I enjoy a challenge, and don't care if I lose or not, ask daddy. Anyone who beats me, well that's good. but if it becomes blatantly obvious that people are creating more ragequits to newbies, then how is this going to help the game?

you don't understand the difference between an external program that some use and is deemed illegal and damage plums that all players have by default? lost cause :X

perhaps it's not me who doesn't understand

LoSt CaUsE

come FFA me, or CA 1v1 see who's got skillz

CA 1v1

: D

Hacking isn't as bad as most people make it.

your living in a dream world sonny

You are all welcome.

ye true, first game of the day, i meet this guy

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/trainer_ (!)

I don't know how you manage to always run into cheaters :/. I met one the other day...

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/shyamahd

...and it was the first in a very long time.

Maybe I just don't play on public servers enough.

it isn't just me, many mates experience the same.

a friend also caught this one today
http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/respektro (!)

1 day later edit...

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/aimassist

&

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/krueg3r

Aimassist was mine, no cheats...

well its obviously upset some people, whose lives will change dramatically

More then me and you can even imagine!

you'd be surprised. What seems falsely entertaining / unintentional is not always the case honey, its amazing what info you can collect from the captivated audience. lmao

There was a Psychological thread / post recently which I thought was quite biased towards sympathizing with cheaters, and using the word Deviance. It was a French Author who wrote that word. In English deviance is not about getting across the road in the wrong place. That's called calculated risk or blind idiocy. I think he was trying to say about evolution of ethical practices / advances, in a round about way, words words mixed up.

Also on another note: Funny how people try to get closest to the people who they believe hold the most information about them, and then try to hold something against them. e Sending me malicious code was not very clever honey.

the word you need to think about is defiance, not deviance. trying the good old "it was just a stimulus for you guys to think" doesn't work 200 replies later after you claimed several legit people are cheat sympathizers for not agreeing with a moronic idea.

your thread ended right here: http://esreality.com/post/2665520/n-a/#pid2662470

it should not be the communities job to go on witch hunts, let alone what type of customer service is that? adding stuff to smooth the way for the plague is not the way to go.

ps: aids is a hack to your immune system if you wanna be so literal.

you are entitled to your perspective

ps, it's evolution not a hack. And right there you are convinced hacking is right,.

its you who asks for hack features, nobody else. if you wanna noobify a game to that degree you are the hack sympathizer. it really is that simple.

Where did I ask for a hack? Are you talking about, the idea on topic, OR the other more CONSTRUCTIVE comments throughout this thread? I soppose not reading it all in order and in context of the bigger picture, can be misleading.

Amyway what benefit what you suggest be? And whats your solution, thats going to combat 17 years of development, and furthermore future proof the fun and retention into the game?

edit: fuck it - waste of time.

hahahah

indeed

You still don't get it, and continually trying to dominate the thread with your illogical posts, with your first and last contributions, just for your +ing feature. There have some very valuable contributions to this thread, by lolz noaccel lorfa, removed, and many others, working a way forward, not stuck in pause mode like you serm to be.. Yet you insist on driving people to read the first and last page of a book, skipping the content, for them to rationalise. How is that helping?

With regards to your AIDS post, evolution happened over billions of cycles of "random" selction of working or not working for survival. It was only man / woman's intervention that made the flu virus more manageable. The reality is not about giving everyone full blown hax, its about making the game more enjoyable, "within limits". Do you think that adding in mouse look after doom was a hack, or an added evolutionary feature?

there are much better and easier solutions already posted in the past. most of whats written here is absolutely bogus, just like your anon attempt to chime in with snidey comments about getting plusses.
fuck plusses all together and people who wont stand by their claims. (hi p3l3)

*fuck ELO all together and people who wont stand by their claims.

Another quick guide: fullhit rockets, cheaters cant shoot
faster also cheaters are noobs with bad movement Else they wouldnt use cheats when they have skill

http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/kw haxor

The other day I played against someone with 3 duels played and was hitting 70% lg consistently and 90% rail with over 60 rails fired. He's banned now but damn, what's the point if you're making it so obvious?

There is no point

99% of "t4" call cheats without asking for demo/Screenshot/proof. Danstar is one of the fake t4. ID should create a bot who random dodges wich you have to beat in duell before you get t4.

:)

Hows QL today? I think the virus's are now under control?

When this cheat fag will get ban?

What kinda cheats? Cause he just looks like an old q3 player by stats that only plays on lower tier FFA servers...

serious'ly?

yes?

its not like i have a demo to watch...

im not saying illuminati is wrong, but there is just no proof, just a link to a profile :D

There's a YT channel with a few decent games vs capable guys (FFA). Demos included in the description.

Demo: got like 12 GB+, so I can provide dm73/dm90 files for almost any game I played in the last 1,5 years. Not that it's some unbelievable stuff.

that actually looks like our very own ffa extraordinaire nymphets aka freiya aka kasual

http://www.qlranks.com/ffa/country/HU

http://www.esreality.com/?a=users&user_id=37262

Just Freiya. Do I know you?

But yeah, long live FFA.


~Yours, truly. : D

Quaker since '97, Q3 since '99 - I had like ~5 years break though.
It's a long in-game time but I could have been much better player if I had internet way earlier, so up until like 2010, it's mostly offline play vs bots and DeFRaG. Got concentration issues too in the last 3 years and that's also a reason why I play principally FFA.


"that only plays on lower tier FFA servers"

Mostly on pub. Not deliberately lower tier, but pub. Which is a fucking vegetable-fest 90% since loadouts update, which is not my fault.

I occasionally play #ffapickup too, when I'm on IRC and there are some games going on (pretty rare compared to the player count on the channel, most of the bastards are just idling ) ) but since those matches are classic, they don't show in the win / loss ratio. Accuracies are pretty similar tho. It's FFA, not duel. :>

Hi retard.

This mid-skill player will never get ban, because sasparillo is not stupid, unlike whining vegetables on pub.

Sorry for the massive butthurt I inflicted on you.

http://www.twitch.tv/hafticho/profile/past_broadcasts spot the aimbot!

since this topic is still around... let's give away a clue.

One of the things that people do when facing a cheat is become scared to take fights. They try to "hide from the aim" by using more cover than usual.
This however is the stupidest thing to do. As when you walk away from the cover they will instantly hit, while you need to readjust your aim.

It is therefor much better that whenever you "can take a fight" you "do take that fight". Also note that any instinctive dodging is useless (which is kinda the case for all of QL even without facing cheats). So just try to make all of your own shots as easy as possible.
In the meantime try to take as much items as you possibly can and try to take exactly the same amount of dmg as the items you took, while having chances to deal dmg on the cheat.

dont forget to bait around corners first, wallhackers are annoying :>

I like that approach, as it is so easy to see the aimbot work in constant combat, draws out loads more flaws, as sometimes it will do random shoot the wrong way :) Always good to have a challenge against a computer anyway.

My #1 way to win against a hacker......



Wait for it,,,,,,




Is coming soon.......




You will appreciate this...........




Just one more mins........




































Just play better. Easy.

Could you implement hitboxes to map walls so that bots get distracted?

bots aim at the color of the enemymodel tho.

How u know?)))

U should too!

Little rainbows here and there then :<

well, or maybe i'm wrong. :D

Yes and no. It can work that way if that's what the aimbot's developer wanted. But this is probably not the usual implementation.

Too late. : D

Increase rail beam effective radius to 32 units - $10/mo

$$$

We should reinstate Punkbuster for a week everyone able to finish a game must have cheats

Is there any anti cheat for QuakeLive right now?

Here is another test to prove cheater or not. Seems only fair to have the correct answer. What do you think? Type "care" for anticheat for all quake engines.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2963880/cheater...ed-or-not/