I do.

The horse simply was walking backwards and it fell in the hole.

So do I, can't you read the text in the image?

why streaming a game with max 1k viewers when they can stream other games with 100k viewers

cause the game is good nothing more

is good but a company needs money to survive, i am sure they are not doing it as a charity. QL have no playerbase. Many better options out there.

+ they love it ;)

I can't wait to introduce the CS and LoL Facey-crowd to a fantastic game called Quake.

Seriously though, sure they can keep on streaming games like CS and get high numbers, only a few hours per week of Quakey would be nice. I don't see that ruling out other games.

You really don't have to believe me when I say that it was indeed I that first 'coined' the name "facey" when listening to it's first play on that ever so fateful facey Sunday stream.

So, okay, it took maybe just 0.004 seconds before the chat was awash with "facey this faceeeey that" etc etc, but the fact remains that I 'coined' it. Which is fine, an itzy-bitzy claim to facey fame.. believe me.. don't believe.. it matters not...

What DOES matter is seeing facey do well. Nice guys, hard workers, about time they 'coined' it in a monetary sense.

I miss quake Sundays like any other quake lover but it's nice to see them getting those 100k viewers... I occasionally tune into the cs:go streams (never played, never will) just to hear good old diddyK ranting on like the old times...

Love quakey, love facey, hope for a future for quakey, hope for a future for facey.

tl;dr facey, quakey, stacey_, wakey wakey hands off snakey

faceynating.

more anymore

Yeah, fail. :D

why would they want to show games that make them zero money?

They said on the past that them doing quake events wasnt about money.

they lied

grow up

Romantico.

:(

because in the adult world, everything is about money. Sure, honey.

in business, yes

so if a business grows out of a hobby, does that mean any enjoyment of the thing itself is gone?

Faceit is a business... the aim is to make money.

But if the reason they started out was because they were having fun, there's a chance they could splash some of that in even nowadays, isn't there?

I'm not saying they must/should/need to do it, I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of possibility. It doesn't defy being a business completely.

) 125fps is not about money )

Maybe it was about experience. They got it already.

now can ESR be a gaming website once again?

ESReality - Where gaming meets whining

! )) why i cant plus this..

If they could bring back the tourneys, it'd be nice if they would just cast the quater finals on up. I miss the matches and commentary.

If you look at ins as a complete average quake player:

plays cheap 1900 elo cups, wins some money and immediatly withdraws it to uhm improve his blood sugar levels at a popular fast food franchise

asks on 20 different irc channels to be gifted quake or faceit subscriptions without paying himself

where does this leave faceit? in planning around this situation and supporting different games. ins killed the quaek. are you an ins?

DDD:

but they haven't streamed any Marvel yet..

I wouldn't even be "mad" at faceit if they decided to abandon quake. You really can't blame them and we all oughta be glad about the good times they provided us with, BUT it would still be nice to know what's happening.

Exactly this. All I want is some info from them.

They said some time ago that they suspended the sunday cups until they can get their platform to properly sync with QL's website.

That is literally what the OP of this thread wrote. He also noted that it's been 2 months since then, which should be enough time to fix some code if one really wants to. What's your point?

I totally forgot what the guy said in #0, I guess. :P

That's some nice point!

Considering that Quake made faceit what it is or tries to be or has devolved into, they should keep quake cups running for at least a few more years, until a new big duel title comes along.

I don't think they owe anything to Quake. It was a mutually beneficial deal.

id doesn't want Facey making more money out of QL than them.

id doesnt want facey losing less money out of QL than them

streaming quake when nothing else is going on doesn't cost money.

Are you sure about that?

ask people in the company 'hey do any of you quake fans wanna volunteer to stream some quake live in the off-hours?' ez

And buy them plane tickets to Milan, accommodation, meals, etc.? Easy and cheap.

*LONG COMMENT WRITTEN BY odellus SO HE CAN SAVE FACE*

yeah because the comment where i expanded on my criticism of the new casters was totally saving face. i was literally sucking their dicks with every sentence.

wat?

And pay rent for the studio, site development, hardware, salaries, promotional media, marketing, etc.?

the fuck are you talking about?

Some company known for not doing half-assed shit.

they already pay for all of that regardless of whether they stream quake or not, and i said 'volunteer' hoping it would imply 'do it for free.' i have no idea what the tickets to milan shit is referring to.

Ok. :)

I don't think you've thought through exactly what the labour for them to do such a thing includes.

no, i haven't, considering i have no idea how big streams are run. why don't you tell me instead of pussy footing around?

i have no idea how big streams are run

streaming quake (...) doesn't cost money.

Don't make bold statements if you have no clue?

why don't you tell me instead of pussy footing around?

Don't demand people to fill your lack of knowledge by insulting them?

why not? it's the best way to find out about things you don't know. i haven't insulted anyone, either.

Well, to give you an idea. I paid something like 1200€ on electricity last year and 50% of that was from my rack server that I've put up in the garage.

That's just something to put the following in perspective: besides the volunteering crew there's also many PC's and server(s) running to create a quality stream like FACEIT does. They have some very specialized equipment and it doesn't run on air (unfortunately).

You could stream with amateur equipment though (PC and streaming software), but there's already other streams that run things like that and you're better off showing your support to them instead. Everything that makes a stream look better usually costed someone some money.

Lastly if some people were to volunteer that fall out of the FACEIT crew, I don't think they'd be given access to use the equipment when it's not used.

that's really interesting. do you have any more info on the hardware side of things? i figured the most specialized kind of hardware they'd have would maybe be mixers and capture cards. maybe even redundant stream machines in case the main one has a problem or something. what do they need servers to run the stream for? the website and shit yeah, but surely not the stream.

the point is that faceit streams will get way, way more viewers than something like zlive ever will no matter what they stream, because they have way, way more exposure. that's not going to happen with zlive no matter how much it's advertised by viewers. and i think that people who like cs but don't know much about quake would enjoy quake, so it's just the kind of big stream quake needs.

Exposure generally is determined by what kind of relationship you have with Twitch. Z Live has a decent relationship with Twitch. FACEIT has a fantastic relationship with Twitch. If you look at the previous stats of viewers, you'll find that actually there isn't much difference between FACEIT and Z Live. We have peaked on about 4.5k viewers on events midweek. FACEIT have peaked at about 6k+ on Sunday Cups. Often viewership is heavily affected by what is going on during the particular day of streaming.

Aside from the hardware aspect of things, they have to pay for:

- travel for all persons involved
- casters / producers / designers
- creating the infrastructure on their site
- administration
- the time involved in setting up everything

Even more amateur streams like ours are not free to host. Not sure what your idea of 'free' is, but things like this are far from that.... although it doesn't usually matter as much unless you're a more established company like FACEIT.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to go into much details, but the software they are using is a client-server model that feeds different kinds of input to a server which can have different types of outputs. That 1 server is responsible to mix all the inputs to (possibly) different types of outputs.

It's hard to explain as to why they are using certain stuff if John Doe can install OBS or Xsplit on his Intel 3770K computer and stream pretty good quality. I think most of the time and effort goes into the production value but good production value can be achieved by using quality equipment. Just think (very) small scale TV station.

I seriously doubt anyone at Faceit except maybe ddk or stermy is even slightly interested enough in Quake to put in free work for a game that maybe's gonna get 1k viewers at best.
Listen to this ddk Vlog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrTAXHzL4ug It takes A LOT of work and people to keep a tournament running smoothly AND to keep a stream running on a Faceit Production level at the same time.

Also, Prize pools.

i don't think i have the mental fortitude to listen to ddk for 19 minutes but i'll try. thanks. also i don't know why but it seems people think i'm saying faceit has to run the tournaments themselves. if they even just streamed 125 fps or whatever, simply on the faceit channel, when nothing else is going on, that'd be more than enough.

e: yeah i'm not too sure how relevant this is to casting online tournaments. dunno.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA. you're representing zlive quite well.

I know, thank you.

did some fancy-ass graphics and thinks he's grabbed god by the balls.
Stopped watching zlive when you took over. I miss zoot and ins, they're great guys, but you have always been annoying and unimportant part of zlive.

well if you're as informed about the streaming production and effort required as about the situation in our team then no woder you're defending odellus' silly arguments mr anonymous.

right, cuz most people want to take their free time to do more work for free. have you ever had a job?

'work'

so you think it's just fun and games and zero effort to put on a live stream cast of a quake tourney? or am i misunderstanding your one-word no-explanation basically-useless response?

something like zlive where it's just a bunch of people sitting in their rooms with cameras pointed at them, talking into microphones about a video game? yes. the 'work' that goes into that, which i definitely do understand, i really do not consider actual work. it's a socialized hobby. hosting a big, high profile lan event? yes, that is actual work, but that's not what i'm talking about, which i know you know, but obviously you enjoy being intentionally obtuse.

so the analogy is a professional ditch-digger that, as opposed to not wanting to build a dam on his off-time, decides that he would actually enjoy digging postholes for the factory up the road for free on his weekend. if i were that ditch-digger, i'd probably suggest that the factory pay fair market price to hire a professional ditch-digger, because it's still not fun to do work (in most cases).

and as for the part about "ask ppl in the company that are quake fans", i'm guessing there might be just a handful of people at faceit (DDK, etc.) that might be interested, but again, they've got pretty solid gigs going, so why would they want to take their free time to do extra work?

because it's not work. the work that goes on with big professional streams is not being done by casters, it's being done by the production crew, the people who make it possible for a few guys to sit in some chairs and talk about video games without the lights going out. the little ACTUAL work that went into zlive (the overlay graphics) wasn't done by the casters (as far as i'm aware, all of that was done by koziol.) maybe zoot played around a bit with some scene elements in obs, and spent a little bit of time on making a stream config, but that's about it. if you are eloquent, understandable, and knowledgeable on the subject, you can not only be a caster, but a good one. it isn't work in the same way that being a member of metallica, playing video games professionally, or ANY fucking hobby turned job isn't work. it sounds like i'm dissing these guys, and i sort of am, but i am exceedingly happy that they exist. i just really don't like it when what they're doing gets overblown to seeming like they're curing cancer or something.

why would ddk not want to stream quake on a big twitch channel, whether he was being paid or not? talking about the video game he loves to thousands of people, while introducing them to what might be a new game for them at the same time? i mean shit, it doesn't even have to be free. they could work it out so that he gets paid from the revenue the stream generates while he's live. there are so many ways to do it, and i am 100% certain ddk would do it for free if he could. pay their graphics guy to spend 30 minutes making some overlays and whatnot for 125 fps or something, hook up a decent webcam, make a couple of scenes in obs, and that's all a simple online tourney quake stream needs.

again, have you ever had a job? if so, what was it, and how often did you volunteer to do that job on your own time and for free?

are you really trying to tell me that what the job is doesn't matter? if you are i think this discussion is over.

are you really just disregarding/ignoring comments from actual casters like Zoot and !nFerNo that support exactly what i'm talking about? if you are i think this discussion is one-sided and you lose (in more ways than one).

also r_picmip 10 FTW!

Because ddk is practically 24/7 busy casting cs:go, which makes it impossible for him to cast something else. Also quake only has one event a year, so there's that, and working people value their free time too.

It's understandable you and others don't know about that, but e-sports and cs:go in particular is at its peak right now and the competitive side of the game keeps on growing at a 2x rate a year. In the recent weeks he was casting many events on a row, busy every day and at every hour, all of which were larger than quakecon.

Then...is there something worth casting in quake live, really? Nah, the scene is at its lowest, casting the same quake for 15 years gets tedious and and everything online has been done to death already. There's no enjoyment in doing that.

And then put yourself in his shoes. He gets home after all that job, which is a 24/7 activity for weeks on end instead of 9 to 5 desk labor only on weekdays. Do you want to keep on professionally casting a game you have seen a million times, your job, at your free time? No, fuck that; of course he wants to have some real life and chill. The very best effort is streaming while playing some way different games for the lulz, maybe cast a qw cup or something, which in the end is himself streaming his free time and what he would be doing stream online or not.

it can be chill. that's the whole point. it doesn't need to be some giant, ridiculously polished aaa production. ddk is just one example, anyway. they could take on new, aspiring casters as a sort of internship/springboard into the big leagues. like i said, there are so, so many ways it could be done. i would say ddk fucking loves it, btw.

Do you realize casting and hosting a show at any level is tiresome? Do you realize streaming something every week at any level is indeed working?

What I wrote about ddk applies to everyone on the faceit team: they all went through the same weeks on end work (casting cs:go on a professional level) and they obviously don't want to keep on doing that in their free time.

And just so it is clear, for them right now casting QL would be a part of their free time, a charity if you want, and not a job, because QL is not profitable.

Actually this applies to pretty much every person that stopped playing quake: playing quake takes energy and concentration while on the pc, which is not something you want to do for free after getting tired to your home after work, especially if it consisted on siting for hours if not for weeks in front of a pc. Plus real life catches on over virtual life (no-life) and stuff.

Maybe the other guy was right on that you haven't ever worked, because these are obvious things to someone that has had.


A second thing is that if I were him I wouldn't consider religiously casting online QL stuff a part of my free time, let alone fucking love it. His actual passions are other stuff (fitness for example), the activity is not fresh anymore and it takes a lot of enduring, with non stop hours long sessions while not being precisely laid back (that energy put is a key difference between good and mediocre casters; same with good and mediocre players actually).

On the other hand, at job at least cs:go feels fresh to him and the lan (live) scene is very much alive, so he gets to travel doing something new while being a part of an actual competitive and thriving activity (online quake is not), and in his free time one of the things he does is indeed streaming, but laid back short single player games.

why you not understand what everyone tell you. nobody cares about ql but you and a few people. ql have no viewers. waste of time and cost lot of money and no profit. They all have full time jobs stupid. why you dont get this?

circular logic.

so everyone was doing it to earn money? Give me a break, people have been casting and streaming quake for so long and most of them didn't get a dime. Now it is expected to make a living out of sitting in your room and talking about a game, which should be something you enjoy doing as a hooby.

So many things you aren't taking in to account. Casting / commentating is still 'work' whether you like it or not. Do you not forget about everything we have to do after and, more importantly, before the stream? You're not even thinking about everything we have to do during it. You certainly aren't taking in to account any political factors, remember we have to deal with a community.

You realise that it's work because people set themselves standards? You create a show that people want to enjoy (and try your best to widen the reach as much as possible). You realise also that the casters you listen to on air don't talk like that in person?

and what the fuck is this about suggesting FACEIT pay their graphics guy to do some overlays in 30 minutes? Do you have any idea what companies to do hold their integrity? It's not just a process of "that will do, it's quake". It's all about "this is our identity and we must continue to maintain our brand image", be it for FACEIT / Z Live / 102 or anything.

As much as I enjoyed casting quake these years. I haven't done 5000'ish hours of casting since 2011 for the lolz, I've done it so I can work on a channel and work on my own skills - which, whether or not I'm getting paid a fair salary - is fucking work. You have to grow thick skin because sometimes it can take the life out of you.

Much respect to you!

don't waste time with lengthy replies to these whiney kids.

keep doing what you're doing (with or without QL)

try doing a 3 hour show almost every day of the week for 2 years (or even for a week), come back and tell me it isn't work again.

who did a show for three hours a day every day for two years?

zoot ins and me

And how is this related to a once-in-month cup from faceit? bragging rights? wouldn't even be that bad if the lot of you weren't just a bunch of tools in front of a PC talking about a videogame.
No one is listening to what odellus is saying, talking about flying in casters and doing a cast every day for 5 hours.

it is related to the 'this isn't work! come on!' entitled, childish attitude. which is exactly why no one is litening to what he is saying. and if you like him think it takes 'just a buch of tools in front of a PC talking about a videogame' to make a show then no one will listen to you as well. especially not me.

Or that. ;)

For me they should do one sunday cup per month and then at the end of the year - finals between top 8. Sounds reasonable for them, we still get some quake action and the viewer numbers will be a lot higher as the cups will be less frequent.

really fantastic idea!

who needs to hear this at FaceIt to make it a possibility?

I can imagine that roychez/stermy/ddk should be enough.

out of those people only roychez is faceit

Stermy's voice is heard in those decisions+ddk can pass the idea in a strong way.

that is also incorrect. stermy has not much to do with faceit at all at this moment (if anything) and the only thing ddk can pass in a strong way is gass on his casting seat in the studio. my point being: if you're gonna assume something - assume shit's way more complicated than you think.

I respect your point of view, but I disagree. Stermy and ddk can talk to roychez and have contact with the more decision making persons in faceit organization. My idea is(answering his question, that is) that they can represent the option for "1 time per month ql tournament and finals in december" format in a proper and more heard way. Not that they can make the decision in any way.

That's wishful thinking without basis in reality at it's best still. Look: I'm not trying to prove my supremacy or win an argument here. I'm in a position of being a little bit more informed than an average esr user. I'm trying to fill you guys in as much as i can in certain aspects (not only in this thread), cause information is power, so trust me when i say that if we want more faceit ql tournaments stermy, ddk and roychez won't fix it up for you. There are people to contact, yes (you can find them on faceit website), but counting on what you written before is simply counterproductive. Those people can be of help and surely contacting them will do no harm whatsoever but it won't bring the faceit cups in itself. I'd love to be proven wrong on this btw:)

I've got no problem with them stopping. What they did was fantastic and if they kept going it would be the same two players in every final, like it always was. That got boring really fast.

because you don't usually go about beating a dead fucking horse when you want to grow as a business

All non Quake players should be gased.

Zyklon B FTW?

It doesn't exist anymore. Try Uragan D2.

Same shit, different name. ;)

they got tired of streaming the same 11 players to the same 9 viewers

The "steam" update was so bad, it drove facey away. :(

they used us!

sometimes you dont appreciate something as much as you should until it's gone. damn i wish lvlup^ came back

It's lvl^ ffs

right now it may as well be lvldown

you mean lvlv

replying to sonic gif

http://gfycat.com/FluidThirdHalcyon

Would be nice

theres a comment by roychez telling me they would continue to support quake as long as theres a community to supports... somewhere on esr!! :D

Go on facey, you can do it, we believe in you!

personally I just have no clue what to do on sunday afternoons without any ql cups =(

I volunteer as tribute. Send me to Milan plz :p

they moved the studio to england because stermy's mom was a bit mad about the electricity bill and weird noises coming from her basement.

Whatever, send me to London then :p

the argument that states "they make more money with CS:GO so why would they stream quake" is completely shortsighted. I've heard the likes of Thoorin, Redeye, Carmac and of course DDK state the following reasoning, that the whole industry needs to embrace in my opinion "and it goes like this" (C) thoorin:

Lets say CS:GO has 100.000 peak viewers. And this generates for faceit 50k EU for tournaments prize money.

Lets say Quake has 1.000 peak viewers. And this generates for faceit 500 EU for tournaments prize money (or probably none at all).
And lets say that tournaments last 1 weekend of air time.

Option 1: Cut quake and stay with 50k to GO and 100.000 viewers.
Total exposure for sponsors: 1 weekend
Total viewers: 100.000
No chance to capture new non CS related vewers

Option 2: Make a 45.000 EU CS:GO tournament with 100.000 viewers and a 5.000 EU Quake tournament with 1.000 viewers.
Total exposure for sponsors: 2 weekends
Total viewers: 101.000
Chance to seduce CS viewers to watch/play/buy stuff for Quake and viceversa.

Why not go to option 2?....

hell, i was out of gaming for long, and recently i came back because i heard about the new CS. Then i entered hltv.org (a cs site) and saw in their stream list the FACEIT channel (in 2013, before they even casted CS) and found that they were streaming Quake, that i thought was dead. Then i started playing, cs and quake, purchased quake, and follow quake and cs streams.... so why the hell not promote feedback between games?

Option 3: Make two 50.000 EU CS:GO tournamenets with 100.000 viewers!

im no math expert but that sunds like (option1) x 2

Or the same amount of tournaments (and probably man-hours) as option 2.

Because fuck logic!

You could literally have a 50k CS tournament every weekend and get 100k viewiers every time... but them quake fanboys still think quake is worth the time and effort... :(

Why would sponsors care for exposure if noones watching?

Because lets say you sell a mouse.. and you already exposed yourself to the 100k cs viewers, why not open the range of exposure to other games that are not so popular but can attract new players into the gaming community.
Some ppl might like FPS but dont like teamplay. Right now they dont have a place, so they wont play seriously and dont buy the mouse.
I mean, the broader the range of competitive games and tourneys the better the chance they have to sell more products.
In real sports gatorade sells and advertises their product in soccer, basketball and even beach volley, and the fifa wc has 2.000.000 viewers while the beach volley might have 100.000 tops.

So in between 1 and a 100, you prefer 1 right?

ehrm... no.... i prefer 101.
next time im going to post about rocket science and everyone will be like... oh... thats correct... i fully understand that.... wtf?

Whole argument is flawed. Csgo continues to grow I think 33k new players last month. A faceit csgo major stream will be put on the "watch tab" in the cc sgo client. In addition, getting a 100,k stream on twitch will bet attention of other non csgo players that may tune in. Why would faceit choose 1000 quake players with a not so growing game over the 100000 csgo viewers with a potential 33k new players a month + the extra twitch viewers they get from being a top 3 stream? Also they sell skins on csgo which fund their tourney league prize pool.

is very simple. if company does only have limited time, they must choose, cannot do both. is very easy choice cs over quake. Sulit explain very well below. You have only 24 hours in day, cannot do everything. choice is, make money with cs, or lose money with quake. You understand now?

This isnt about relative differences. its about absolut numbers and i think 1000 viewers is just not enough as that it had any relevance for sponsors.

Every sunday is almost too much in my opinion but I'm sure others disagree. These esport thingies always last for so many hours you need to commit a whole day to watch it all, which is fine for the big LAN tournaments like dreamhack, but too much for every sunday, poor ddk even had to do EU+NA for a while, dat dedication!

Once a month or so would be sweet for that studio style casting experience :)

agree

ddk=tom brokaw of quake

Who?

dat ddktion

NA cups were the best because casters were so tired they talked so much bs :-)

Love once a Sunday. But no life lol. I liked everyday

If I could choose between getting sunday cups with zlive coverage and Facey streaming 125FPS, I think I'd choose the former. We're incredibly lucky that we have Alexey A, cause he's the sole reason there's still any competition going on apart from QCon once a year which is just a thing because it's id's game and they feel bad or something. QL would be at the same point as Q3/CPMA competition-wise if not for these people.

Sunday don't feel like sunday no mo.

Casting is a lot harder work than most actual jobs. Its very draining and to do it well requires a lot of preparation. Obviously Quake casters never really prepare (us included) so it is always very amateur hour. Oh and there is no real reward unless your ego is so fragile you enjoy a couple of compliments by random people you will never meet over the internet. Certainly isn't any money in it no matter what Z Live hopes.

Quake is boring now unfortunately, the coverage is dull as fuck and the game is stagnant. Once you escape it you realise just how embarrassingly dead it is and how tiny and insignificant the community is.

There is no point Faceit going back to Quake. There is no benefit at all. They already have the association with its historical pedigree now. Time to move on like everybody else.

Oh TDM is still the best just to be clear.

sad but true.

UT4 / Doom4 (or another real contender) can't come soon enough

Spot on.

;_;