"adaptive vsync" is a good compromise, i've been using it for months in many games.

well, i only used vsync to draw a parallel. But i see we do NOT agree on vsync, so ofc we do not agree on frame pacing, that's a given.

i cant remember the last time i needed vsync

no, post is not about vsync :(

it's not clear what the post is about.

it's about frame pacing? i though i was being very clear about that. :/

then the title is misleading

I suggest renaming the thread "consensus on frame pacing" or, if you don't get enough answers, "need a new mouse"

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g100s is awesome

rule of thumb I follow:

vsync on if:
refresh rate of monitor greater than fps max of game


anytime the fps climb above the refresh rate the drivers/software halt FPS production to synchronize with monitor. this is what causes the input lag to occur as the game stops taking the input into consideration when a frame is held back from finishing.

my setup:
144hz monitor
125fps quake
vsync on

most games don't climb above 144fps with the settings I have.....but that being said some games will still have input lag even with this rule of thumb.

Software shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpWqTjLn7Fg

You can set com_maxfps up to 250 now fyi

a lot of servers wont allow that yet

http://www.esreality.com/post/2683232/modifie...d-fps-src/

This modified edawn client allows fps higher than 125. I'm getting 500 fps on all US cpma servers.

On 144hz it's a major improvement over 125fps. I play at 120hz +lightboost so it doesn't make much of a difference though. There is slightly less screen tearing and input lag.

vsync creates terrible input lag. all quakers should avoid it

so does frame pacing, which im trying to tell is always on.

At least this isn't tied to your monitor's framerate so you can crank it up to levels where latency becomes insignificant. I'm assuming you're talking about spinning/sleeping during 1000/fpsCap-frameTime and not about frame pacing in multi GPU settings with AFR.

no, single gpu, im talking about something fundamentally being wrong with how nvidia pushes frames, to how ati does it.

quote from here: http://www.game-debate.com/news/?news=14728&a...20Explored

Before we nailed down what frame pacing is, it’s important to understand why it's a necessity. Basically, when running a game your graphics card is rendering each frame sequentially to your display. In theory for an image to be smoother, the speed with which your graphics card can render these frames remains equal at all times. When a graphics card is running it often alternates between fast and slow frames, with the GPU simultaneously attempting to send the images to display as quickly as possible. This alters the flow of the frames and can deliver uneven performance and even noticeable stuttering, even when a game appears to be running at a solid 30fps or 60fps.

In order to counteract these frame pacing problems, both AMD and Nvidia have released driver updates over the past few years designed to balance frame pacing. Frame Pacing software can detect disparities in the time it takes for the graphics card to render frames, inserting a delay on the following frames in order to even itself out.

It's also worth noting that a side effect of frame pacing is increasing frame latency on the whole; it's unavoidable, but holding back frames creates a delay.

BUT ati is not the always on solution afaik?

I run vsync constantly with no input lag ... read my other posts here

no you dont and your explanation on how it is supposed to work is something you made up.

vsync adds a lot of lag you just dont notice it

human eye can only see 30 fps vsync on off no care only big corporation marketing $$$

24 fps* that's why they made films at that framerate of course. But we could probably get away with using a powerpoint presentation model of one frame every few seconds and not notice much difference.

okay okay, people, ill come back with footage to back up my claims!

i think you are on drugs

ofc not.

I now updated with footage of the effect frame pacing has.

but we've already told you, nobody uses vsync here, you didn't need to upload a video

now go disable it !

take your piss and spray it another place :)

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Stop using SLI you mongoloid

if he is using sli and posting this then lol

otherwise i'd really like to know how to enable this 'frame pacing'

Nvidia doesn't have a specific frame pacing tool exactly, but instead incorporates it automatically

no, not sli ofc. this is single card. always on

?

maybe go find roach at oc.net, you sound like you'd get along with him.

so everything Jon Sutton(article in op) wrote is pulled out of his ass? That's basically what you are saying.

Anything you do not have the mental capacity to understand is invalid?

Ok i get it now. Your saying frame pacing adds input lag just like vsync but there is no option to turn it off. But your post makes it sound like why aren't people turning on frame pacing.

This is interesting since i never heard about frame pacing. How did you play stalker with frame pacing off if there is no way to turn it off?

forget it. It does not add any significant delay. Look ewh post. He was able to measure as low as 2ms whole system USB to Pixel delay with 2k+ FPS CSGO and nvidia GPU.

2000fps and 45-75fps are not really comparable though? dude? it's simply not the same thing we talk about :)

ah ok, I got you. Increase FPS to 120+ and forget about frame pacing. If you play with 45-75 FPS in any game that requires as low input lag as possible you are screwed anyway... So I still do not get the whole drama you created around this technology.

no drama? i just want an off option?

From what I read about Frame Pacing the effects will be most significant is scenarios where FPS is spiking, as Frame Pacing basically seeks to average out frame times.

If you have locked stable 20fps, 200fps, or 2000fps, frame pacing would not be doing anything at all, because the frame time is always constant.

If you have FPS that is jumping between 20 and 200 in short intervals, frame pacing kicks in to help the frame times become more consistent (by slowing down the frame times at the higher end).

This sounds to me like something that would not necessarily be a significant input issue, because (1) it only has notable effect during spiking scenarios and (2) it will never slow down the lowest frame time. This means that your input actually stays more consistent, rather than having your input spike with your FPS. This is probably more beneficial overall to a comfortable playing experience, hence the adoption by both Nvidia and AMD.

This is contrary to vsync, where ALL frames are ALWAYS delayed unless your FPS exactly matches your refresh rate. (either by delaying them to reduce to your refresh, or if your FPS is under that, to a fraction of your refresh).

problem is, you could have significant lower total frame time when you are mostly in 60fps range, but because you dip below, it delays everything. It's not very simple to do i imagine, and right now it might SOUND like a good idea to do so, but in practice it feels like utter shit. As you say, limiting fps to 35fps if that's the lowest, feels A LOT more crisp than 60fps dipping to 42fps for example in certain areas, since frame pacing is in effect to compensate for that giving you a overall much bigger delay than if you were just experiencing the real frame time delay.

yes. It cant be turned off, its automatic on nvidia hardware, as i understands it. And it behaves REALLY badly in certain scenarios, is what im saying. I'm trying to get ppl to understand that we really need an off function since it's a matter of preference just like vsync.

I was drawing that parallel, because i thought it would be clear, since most people know vsync messes with input is perceived, but games look smooth.

You cannot turn it off, it's not part of the game. Ati does not have this, an therefore remains only delayed by whatever the actual frame time suggests 30fps 33ms 60fps 16.6ms etc.

to summarize this:
if you don't have a multiGPU setup, don't bother reading, but if you plan to buy a multiGPU setup: DON'T

my logick in the mind be brokan

where does is say only for multi gpu, this is single card.

LOL, what is this all about then???
googling "frame pacing" always has to do with multi GPU.

is says nothing about multi gpu in the article. It's a way of "smoothing the experience", which is broken IMO, see http://esreality.com/post/2692716/n-a/#pid2692716

from article

the GeForce GTX 650 to give you some idea of how much the frame pacing can vary on this Nvidia card. While the performance as a whole isn’t bad at all, you can see the frame pacing vary wildly from lows of around 12 ms all the way up to peaks of 60 ms

unfortunatly leszny cant play his gs2 group, and he is replaced with 4th from his gs1 group - nitrino