[06:22] <%faerie> I wonder if it's possible to design something that sounds even more like ut than this
[06:23] <%faerie> alright, this is retarded
[06:24] <%faerie> " so we didn't like bunnyhopping because we want our shit to work in bursts, that's why you can dodge, jump and airdodge. Faster than a rocketjump. For free. "
[06:24] <%faerie> " because I guess it makes sense to add variations of a single mechanic when you don't actually want to commit to your design choices "
[06:24] <%faerie> " or something. We don't actually know, we're indie devs. "

Not everyone is going to like our design choices and that is expected. Some people prefer the Quake philosophy and other the UT philosophy. Its a divide that will probably always be in the arena FPS scene. These are the design decisions we think are both fun but also facilitate competitive play.

to be frank, at the end of the day, there are already enough choices for people who want a more Quake design style. Its just not really the direction our team wants to go. Its a matter of personal taste.

I think its fun, but I'm biased.

I haven't said anything about quake.

There are many elements to game design players don't actually get to see, sadly we're not the best at hiding these things.

Our biggest stump has always been testing things and holding back information, we need to sit there and battle for months before we decide on something. There are many more advanced ways of using these mechanics and at this point you are only limited by your imaginations, imagine our movement mechanics as a template to create your play style, personally i love strafe sliding which wasn't mentioned in the video.

There are many more advanced ways of using these mechanics and at this point you are only limited by your imaginations

You said in that vid that the energy thing was meant to keep wallsliding from being retarded. Your imagination seems pretty limited.

personally i love strafe sliding which wasn't mentioned in the video

Should have been in, it'd have been the second thing that didn't look ripped straight from UT.

I don't care if people are ripping stuff out of ut or quake or fucking mario kart as long as they're not trying to hide it behind silly, pimped variations of the same mechanics.

Well the energy recovers when your detach from the wall, so it's not gone forever directly after sliding don't worry about that bud.

Life is based on simple pimped variations of the same mechanics, everything is just a copy of something. :")

I'd love to see you in one of our core testing groups, you should checkout our forums when you get a chance.

Already assuming I'm blind and retarded. You guys must be having a lot of fun with your core testing group.

The difference between evolution and ( terribadly ) disguised variation is that you can't backtrace evolution just by looking at it.

Yeah it's always good fun, I'd agree with you on distinguishing between a money and dolphin, compared to a monkey wearing a hat that says "Dolphin" in very bold print. But I'd prefer slowly convincing you threw interpretive dance that the monkey wearing the dolphin hat is actually a dolphin wearing a monkey hat.

Are you sure you're not sharing this account with PissyAwesome ?

I can guarantee you I would never share my accounts with anyone, plus if you browse our forums you should recognize the terrible analogies i use.

I'm the husky looking Canadian, you can see me on the podcast and forums. :)

You look like John Romero :D

You are a hater :|

Not really, but definitely a critic.

So you are promoting on this site again? Will you get pissy again when people tell you your game sucks?

Your confusing me with prettyawesome, I'm the lead developer and owner of the company with all the financing.

If the games not your cup of tea feel free to state your anger, I'd love the chance to convince you to give it a try when we reach open beta.

Thank you.

You might want to read your pissy buddy's posts

He's well aware of my posts.

That's why I'm doing the ESR posts from now on

And that's why he's in this very thread, of course.

He shouldn't be posting anymore don't worry, sorry for any discomfort.

he's a personal friend of yours?

GAME NEEDS A NEW NAME

Looking good. Shootmania good.

lmao

rofl

The movement mechanics are too easy to punish. The splash damage is going to need to be comically small. All of the chokes looks like the most annoying chokes I can think of in video games.

1.) Near the downed statue, that choke looks alot like upstairs base on 2fort, a very frustrating choke.

2.) Upper, near the windows the jumppad up into the sniper's nest to your left at the start of the video. That choke looks like... well I've never seen a choke that bad before.

3.) Lower mid looks like de_season mid, which is usually frustrating cause de_season sucks anyway.

4.) That place where you buttslide can be punished from basically anywhere.

5.) That spot above and to the right of where you buttslide is just tiny, and backs up to a big open space from which rockets can be fired relentlessly.

Either this map doesn't have any spawns or this map doesn't have any weapons. My best guess is that you guys are only playtesting right now with railguns, and there's a litany of reasons why that's asinine. I just don't see any way that you guys could range out the weapons when the players walk so slow and there are so many peeks. This whole thing needs work.

We're just play testing right now, ill forward this to our map team and thanks for the post. I want to call it buttslide now...

Make wallsliding dynamic. If you move your mouse down then your player moves down and gains velocity. If you move your mouse up then the player can use his running momentum and transfer it into a vertical direction to climb to higher levels. A bit like surfing in CS:S

Do want, we've been playing around with something just like this. Sliding is how a player increases there momentum, when you get out of a slide that speed increase doesn't disappear right away and you can stack more speed by managing your energy bar and sliding.

So far we have learned that 2/2 people we've seen associated with this game are retarded.

Rawr

I'd prefer slowly convincing you threw interpretive dance that the monkey wearing the dolphin hat is actually a dolphin wearing a monkey hat.

SPORK!!! xD

Given a bowl loaded with an assortment of meats & vegetables soaked in a beautiful broth occupied by all the finest spices, would you prefer to drink the broth first?

BRB, I shouldn't be typing on an empty stomach.

hi every1 im new!!!!!!! holds up spork my name is katy but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!!!! lol…as u can see im very random!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet random ppl like me _… im 13 years old (im mature 4 my age tho!!) i like 2 watch invader zim w/ my girlfreind (im bi if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite tv show!!! bcuz its SOOOO random!!!! shes random 2 of course but i want 2 meet more random ppl =) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lol…neways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!!
DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again _^ hehe…toodles!!!!!

love and waffles,

t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m

So many inconsistencies, your a dude named katy? wait, oh you use tumblr. well played

The fuck has tumblr got to do with anything. Noob.

I only put weed and cornflakes in my bowls.

At the same time?

at the same damn time!

Actually this looks pretty good. Ofc 99% of the users here will bash it for not being quake movement.

+ for all the slide movements.

- for the dashes in air.

And if this game will not have an OP railgun type of weapon im going to give it a shot!

We're really at the refinement stage now, the air-dodge was really hard for me to accept at first but it's really grown on me.

Thanks for taking the time to comment, we're working on more weapon videos right now.

I'm reserving my judgement of dashes in the air until I can test it out in a rocket fight. Slides are a big + for me though

Praise jesus for skiing. Thats gonna be fun to combo with rocket jumps and slopes and stuff.

I typically dont like dodges and its the reason I wont play UT4 for any extended period of time, but in this game the dodges are much better with the double jump possibilites and the air dashes and they arent the only movement mechanic available to you.

Really pleased with this update

I started off with mixed feelings but by the end of the video i liked what i saw, glhf! :)

I'd really love to see more of you, hope you play in our alpha. <3

game looks good!

Thank you

I really like the Zelda-esque art direction and colors =)

I didn't know about this game before, it actually looks pretty cool.

Thanks! We are going for more of a LoL art style but slightly different. A little more detail but not too much. We don't want the environments to get to visually busy.We managed to get a really talented art team. Actually for an indie team, we have like 8 artists including myself.

Looks like you've had a close eye on UT4's development according to the idea's shown in the video. Either way, it's good thing as competition should spur motivation to be the best.

Just be careful not to put too much into this or it will just become too crazy; a good example is to take a look at the 'forward mode' in UT2004's UTComp as that has air dodges and such.

Is windows XP 32-bit supported?

If so is there a chance that I could join the testing group?

Upgrade your toaster already.

Lorfa if you ever find a way to overclock all the USB ports to 1000Hz on win 7 or win8 pls make a thread about it.

Yes of course, we work on windows/mac/linux/potato.

u know how to get f3 timer in duel up? the 120s to f3, i dont see it, only 'f3 to ready urself'

No I sure don't.

cg_DrawPregameMessages

We don't want to make it too floaty but.. you can jump across this gigantic room in one go?

Right.

There's actually a wall right beside Antonio when he makes that jump if you didn't see that, you need a wall to make a jump like that.

I hope that clears things up!

Actually I meant the lower one, that still a massive jump.

The wall stuff makes sense, making that jump without the wall? Yeah oook.

gl, seems like there are far too many arena shooters coming out at once to keep track of :s

When we started there we're none, now they are everywhere.

2015 is arena shooter year

Yes.
Sadly, only about a thousand people will notice this.
The other 250.000 will still be playing CS:GO :<

Kinda cool , still a working in progress tho =] keep it up the good work ;)

Wow im mad late

It would be cool to see some examples of more advanced way to use the movement when you have more maps. Just a short video with no talk or anything, just clips of you rocket jumping to wall slides or skiing then jumping onto walls and then rocket jumping away from them and then sliding along other walls and stuff.

Seeing all the mechanics like this is great, but it would also be good to see what sort of things are possible when the mechanics are comboed together.

UT > Quake

I'm joking. Choke on quake's gothic dick, nerds.
OpieOP

Ofcource i need to try but it looks like ut dodge, dodgejump, walljump, wallslide, airdash it is too mutch (and energy for airdash =0). I prefer only wallslide & dodge & walljump.

I'll probably try this game when it comes out. Overall it looks quite good, and at least it's not like reborn where we get 1 update/year :D

however I don't think that i'll have the patience to relearn everything from scratch, I mean, I'm too used to strafe-jumping/bunny-hoping, rocket jumps, to learn something else now. I mean, most of the people there took years to master these technics, basically it's like telling them to move from quake to UT, only a few of them will do it.

project nex as it stands now looks too much like UT, and needless to say, when UT4 will come out, I don't think that I will be playing it over quake/reflex. I always liked more the mechanics of quake, and still do. I'm personally not a fan of UT dodges (with the "press 2x the keyboard key to dash", shit looks just too spammy for my taste :p), ofc they make the game dynamic but on the other hand it just don't feel as smooth/skilled as the quake movements.

Look at defrag, cpm, quakeworld, people keep playing these games and the skill ceiling/skill gap is HUGE. You will never master at 100% the quake movements, you can always get better and better.
But when you look at UT, well, I never heard of something like defrag for UT. Basically it feels like the movements are too "basic/generic".
Ofc the project nex movements seem a bit more complex than UT, with more possibilities, but too me it just feels like something you added just for the sake of looking cooler than "too old and too complicated current arena fps", and also just for the sake of looking different. Fair enough. Hope project nex won't end up like reborn, or should I say "Reborn : dota 2".

Also, I'm not a fan of 2 firemodes for each weapon, for serveral reasons that I won't mention there because I guess 90% of the people there knows what I mean already ;).
And I watched the video of one of the weapon that will be implemented in project nex... well... Hope it won't end up like UT where most of the guns/secondary firemodes are useless, and with basically 1 dominant weapon (shock rifle).
I prefer the way the quake weapons are designed to work : situational; RL, close range, LG mid range and rail long range. As simple as that. No weapon is better than another. In order to be the best you have to master ALL weapons and not 1 or 2 weapons like in UT.

In quake, the rules are simple and simple to understand, kind of remind me of chess. But yet the skill ceiling, like I said already, is so fucking HUGE :D.

I think that, like most hardcore people there at ESReality, if your FPS is not Quake 5 or a cpm/qw clone, I will probably try it but go back to my beloved quake right after :p.
We don't need something completely different than quake, we just need quake with newer engine (reflex) :). Quake gameplay isn't broken, don't try to fix it, it's just PERFECT, and no, it's not a matter of taste... When you critisize quake's gameplay, it's like critisizing chess, yes ofc it's old and quite hard to get good at, but man, it's so rewarding and intense :O.

So, yeah, I wish good luck to all the project nex developpers and hope that your game will be successful. But just don't expect much love there from ESR :D, because we are hardcore people and all we know is QUAKE, FUCKING QUAKE 4 LYFE :D

<3

*EDIT* Oh, and forgot to say : take a look at CS:GO, it's basically CS 1.6 with better GFX and more features, but yet the game is a massive success, in term of players, it's right next to dota 2. And competitively, it's better than any CoD.
And titanfall, this game got massive hype before it came out, and the first 3 months after being released, but now, who's still playing this game except than the console scrubs ? :D The game was supposed to have bright future, but I think that it's kind of a failure now. And yeah, it had jetpacks, wallrunning, walljumps and so on... But any newbie was able to move fluently around the map after 5-6 hours of practice... *EDIT*

Looks like a good, objective and decent comparison about the 3 games you talked about (ut/quake and nex). Was refreshing to read a good and honest critic ;) .

You're missing out a tad bit about Ut movements in general, maybe because you didnt play it as much as quake, which is fine as you kept your honesty and didnt shove your ideas (as undeniable biblical truth) in everyone's throat.
Even though I think what you said objectively makes very good sense (instead of usuals quake retard fanboys) UT movements offers good learning curve and different mastering level when you played it enough to notice it. I prefer myself quake strafe for speed oriented gametypes like ctf, i find it smoother and more suited.

Theres not much defrag in UT(x). It existed in every UT but it's not very popular at all.
I know a guy made a a defrag movie for UT3, here for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgxtA5i-bA

You can clearly see the Quake inspiration in here (even quake maps like dm6 or dm17 :p ). Though, the skill gap between ut defrag and Quake defrag is not even comparable (would certainly be laughable i think). I'm sure also i saw some in ut2k4/2k3

About 2 fire modes, once again i'm seeing what you mean. I think it's again a fair review in a sense. The truth is actually very few alternative modes are useless. Right out of the bath, i would say Bio primary, which is by far the less used, and maybe a bit link prime (it would be the equivalent of plasma) but that's it.
UT weapons are also very situational actually. Both weapon usages are very very close from Quake to UT tbh.
In UT, not any weapon is better than another too as they are very situational if used the way it was designed to be but yes SR is the most polyvalent one but also the one that requires the most skill to be used efficiently. (UT3 weapon balanced is i think considered the best weapon balance from all the different UTs, i think it's too spammy if you ask me...).
Also, it's a missconception you have, i think, about ut being about 2 weapons only, it's clearly not the case. Usually people have some weapon dominance, like in Quake too. I'm personally, in UT3, a lot about SR/snipe/link sec/Rox, just like strenx would be more lg/rail/sg or agent would be rox, plasma.

So even though i think there are some little false ideas (due certainly to not much playing and/or with good players), still pretty fair points and review.

get a [+] =)

Looks like a good, objective and decent comparison about the 3 games you talked about (ut/quake and nex). Was refreshing to read a good and honest critic ;) .

thank you dude ;)

You're missing out a tad bit about Ut movements in general, maybe because you didnt play it as much as quake, which is fine as you kept your honesty and didnt shove your ideas (as undeniable biblical truth) in everyone's throat.

Yep definitely :D. I actually played way more quake than UT :). But actually i started playing arena shooters with UT99 back in 2000 or so :D. I liked the game a lot, but played mainly against bots with an irl friend because we didn't have an internet connection back then :p, and a bit later, only 56kbps, so that's when i started to play a bit online, and it was good :).
I also played UT2k3 and then 2k4, but at that time I also discovered quake 3 and instantly felt in love with it :). So yeah, i was definitely playing more quake than ut :).
However i watched countless UT fragmovies and also quite a lot of pro players matches. And actually i was/i am enjoying it, but again, in my opinion, quake feels more "solid" without gimmicks ;).

Even though I think what you said objectively makes very good sense (instead of usuals quake retard fanboys) UT movements offers good learning curve and different mastering level when you played it enough to notice it. I prefer myself quake strafe for speed oriented gametypes like ctf, i find it smoother and more suited.

Yap sry maybe i wasn't clear enough. What i wanted to say is by no mean that UT movements requier no skill at all. I mean, ofc ut movements still got a decent learning curve but there again i think strafe-jumping/bunny-hopping is even deeper in that regard.
UT movements are nice for "in combat/fight" situations, even tho sometimes it's a bit random/spammy. I'm talking more specifically about UT2k3/4, in some aspects, it's like warsow with walljumps and dash/dodges. For example i think that cpm movements without walljumps and dashes feel less random than warsow movements, but i still like the possibilities warsow movements offer to the players.

Also, going from a point A to a point B in UT is imho less interesting than in quake. I'm personally not a big fan of the "dodge, jump, double jump STOP. repeat STOP repeat STOP" if you know what i mean :p. In quake it feels more fluid and you can gain speed over time.

I think it's again a fair review in a sense. The truth is actually very few alternative modes are useless. Right out of the bath, i would say Bio primary, which is by far the less used, and maybe a bit link prime (it would be the equivalent of plasma) but that's it.

Yap sry, there again, I shouldn't have said something like "useless". I'm aware that most weapons can be useful at a given time, but let's say you get a shock rifle and a flak cannon, you will for sure be using the shock rifle instead of primary fire of the flak cannon. I mean, the flak cannon is actually used in few situations but still far less than the shock rifle. You would also choose the SR over the rocket launcher except in few situations. And so far from all the videos of ut i saw, i ended up with the conclusion that the secondary fire of the Pulse Gun (equivalent of the shaft in UT, for those who didn't know), is not as much used at the SR or even the sniper rifle (because of headshots).
Also the minigun is basically the equivalent of the quake 2 ChainGun but it's not used as much as the SR there again.

UT weapons are also very situational actually. Both weapon usages are very very close from Quake to UT tbh.

Yap they are still quite situational but not as much as in quake ;)

I mean, in quake, you would use 33% LG 33% rail and 33% RL. Ofc it depends on the player's playstyle, some people will use more lg than rail, others more rail than lg, but still. If you look at the statistics of all the players playing quake you would end up with something close to 33 33 33.
In UT on the other hand it's more like 45% SR 25-30% sniper rifle and the remaining percentage for the others weapons ;).
And i think that having 2 firemodes makes the game a bit messy at times, sure it's fun to use, and when you're not very skilled at the game it's fun to discover all the possibilities it can offer, but at pro level it makes the game a bit too complicated/messy. Like i said, to me the quake gameplay feels more "structured / solid".

but yes SR is the most polyvalent one but also the one that requires the most skill to be used efficiently.

not as much skill as the plasma in quake, trust me :D.

But yeah, at pro level, it's the most used weapon, because like you said, it's polyvalent, and the players are skilled enough to use it efficiently in any situation ;)

get a [+] =)

thank you again dude <3. HF!

Np :) .

I would like to comeback on few points:

About movements
I dont understand too much why you think Ut movement feels spammy (genuine question, no trolling or anything).
Only low, low+ players would crazily "spam" dodge for example. In a sense, it's very much the same in quake in terms of keys pressing combo and frequency: holding forward, strafe left jump, strafe right, jump etc. I never had this spammy feeling playing or quake or UT and hoping from one to another, day after day. Maybe again, because u played it not that much so you're not used to it :p . Just like in quake anyway, being the most unpredictable is allowed with combo of moves/ patterns. Doing always the same makes you predictable.

About alternative firemodes
Well to use your example (SR and flak use), it's not true. Maybe for low level players. It is 1) situational 2) skill related 3) related to the dude precise weapon skill and 4) up to the guy preference :p !

For a guy like killsen, trying to overuse rail close range would make sense, for Agent, not. It does not mean rail is more polyvalent. Just like for strenx if would make sense to overuse lg close range, even though rl would be more suited :p . Agent would tend to use rox spam a lot more than he should midrange evn though lg is more suited.

Actually, SR is the most polyvalent for one single reason (that i utterly despise TBH): that retarded overpowered shock Core ( the ball). I tell you straight away that's why.

SR, just like lg is also more used because there's something ORGASMIC with it. To be honest i will explain you something u will very easily understand. It's that very particular satisfaction to hit a crazy hard/spectacular midair combo you can have and that, i find also in quake, hitting a 60% lg versus a decent player (maybe you more than anyone else, can understand that). Hitting spectacular combo also play its role into the usage of the SR, imo.



Well, you also have to consider, that if you base on fragmovie where by essence the goal is to be spectacular, SR will always have its spot in there because it's 'WOW-bringing" factor of it.

About weapon being more situational

Well, having played thousands of hours of UT (esp ut3) and almost exclusively played ql ctf and CA to warmup with very good people, i would dare and say UT weapons are even more situational than Quake's. Lemme explain why (otherwise it would be retarded :p ).

By the fact we have a more diverse set of weapons offering more firing modes, we have a very very large panel of very precise situations coverable in UT.

RL prime can be used exactly like quake one, np
RL sec can display trirox (what a fkn bullshit tbh, i'm fighting to have rl sec only grenades for years now ...) and delayed bursting grenades with and arched trajectory covering what Rl and gl do in quake.
In UT you could have an instant burst arched trajectory projectile using flak secondary (one delayed and one instant covering, then more situations). You could in ztn hit 100hp projectile from nades to red tele exit, for example.

In quake, a guy can dodge your grenades if it's not a direct hit, in UT, you could use flak sec.

Bio primary is normally designed to spam an area with small globs. Just like a trap setting weapon acting like a movement detector. Imagine lets say we have a Biogun in quake. I could spam some bio prime in the rail to mega corridor and stay close to lg with SR. If you hit or need to jump above one of those globs, the movement detector or noise generator detector role is used and i just have to combo you, or rl spam. You could do that in quake with gl, but if the guy comes walking towards your nades trajectory, you wont know anything if hes coming....

Lets compare a bit link and stinger (minigun):
The linkgun (shorter range lg in quake) is a hitscan tracking weapon but with a closer range than ql lg. Making it more vulnerable to close range weapons (like flak or rl). It offers a lockdown feature though if you hit very good with it.
If you're low HP in UT(3) and you know the dude is low too but as rl/flak its dangerous to go into this fight. Comparatively saying, you would use lg in quake (both case considered with no rl for you). In UT in that very case, if you feel like you're too low, u can try to use the minigun. It's a bit like a vitamined mg in quake. You could stay away with a low damage per hit weapon (but strong enough to be a weapon fully usable if used solely, not a weak spawned with mg in quake). As it had to be balanced, the minigun was given a spread (otherwise link sec would be useless).
I could also make you notice for exmaple (once again quite situational), on maps where you call fall in lava, void, space w/e. I will try to use ut3 minigun sec. to push you in that. It's a hard to hit high knockback 38hp/per hit projectile weapon). In term of mastering the hit, i would compare that with a QL plasma with big knockback. Imagine, i dont know, lets say purgatory battlesuit area. I would play "hit and run" close to a wall mini sec spam to try and push you off the bs plateform to make you fall into lava.

I mean really man, trust me UT weapons are very very situational too (i objectively think without any bias or bs fanboyism induced that it's more situational than in quake, not like more is necessarily better, i NEVER said that).

In UT on the other hand it's more like 45% SR 25-30% sniper rifle and the remaining percentage for the others weapons ;).

that's quite quite untrue really :p . It's very up to the map and the player playstyle i guarantee you :p!

it depends also on which iteration of UT you compare. I talk about the last iteration (ut3) where the weapon balance is known to be the fairest (i think it's too spammy with that retarded trirox, and stupid flak prime snipe shit but heh ).

Np, have a good day. Maybe we could meet on ts for further explanations if you want :) .

I dont understand too much why you think Ut movement feels spammy (genuine question, no trolling or anything).
Only low, low+ players would crazily "spam" dodge for example.

I find it a bit spammy more or less because of the fact that you have to press 2x the strafe key to make a dodge. And also with walljumps/doublejumps etc it gives more movements possibilities and thus making the dodges more random.
If you add a dodge key to QL, and also the possibility to walljump/doublejump, then it becomes a bit more random. Ofc it takes skill to be unpredictable, but I somehow prefer the way CPM/QW/QL are designed, in that case ;).

Take a look at warsow for example. They added walljumps and dash. Then they realized that it was too much about "mindless +forward +spam", and they added stun =), which limits your ability to use the walljumps.
I prefer the way the ql combat skills are "structured". There is only 1 way to dodge in quake : using the strafe keys on the ground, and sometimes jump. But you don't jump as much as in UT, that's for sure :) (i mean when you're in a combat situation).
In ql, the way you dodge is more "simple" than in UT, there again, no gimmicks =).

In a sense, it's very much the same in quake in terms of keys pressing combo and frequency: holding forward, strafe left jump, strafe right, jump etc.

Nop it's not :p. Like i said in quake you jump only rarely when you're in a combat situation and you want to keep fighting. You jump only sometimes against the rockets.
But in UT you have to use the "2x key press" and dodge with the strafe keys(like you said) as well as with the "dash", and also doublejump etc...

Just like in quake anyway, being the most unpredictable is allowed with combo of moves/ patterns. Doing always the same makes you predictable.

I think we agree there ;).
But like I said, the more movements possibilities you add, the more random it becomes ;). And it's harder to keep the target in your crosshair =).

Well to use your example (SR and flak use), it's not true. Maybe for low level players. It is 1) situational 2) skill related 3) related to the dude precise weapon skill and 4) up to the guy preference :p !

I'm pretty sure that if we had statistics that would show the weapons usage of all the players playing UT (from low skill to high skill), it would be clear that they SR is the most used weapon, because it's more polyvalent than any other gun and the shock combo is deadly.
Never said it's not situational, i agree with you there ;). But still there are more situations where the SR is very effective than any other weapon.
I disagree when you say it's up to player preference, I mean, when you figure out that 1 or 2 weapons are better than any other one, because it covers greatly a larger part of combat situations, then if you want to win you will use them :D, ofc :).

For a guy like killsen, trying to overuse rail close range would make sense, for Agent, not. It does not mean rail is more polyvalent. Just like for strenx if would make sense to overuse lg close range, even though rl would be more suited :p . Agent would tend to use rox spam a lot more than he should midrange evn though lg is more suited.

I think that we agree there :).
But i'm not talking only about agent/k1llsen/strenx or any pro players. I try to base my arguments on pretty much ALL the players playing quake ;) (from low to high skill).
QLRanks and quakelive statistics (altho sometimes they are not that accurate, qlranks is better :)) are a good way to see which weapon is more used etc by the players. I wish we had the same for UT ^^.

Actually, SR is the most polyvalent for one single reason (that i utterly despise TBH): that retarded overpowered shock Core ( the ball). I tell you straight away that's why.

+1 :D

SR, just like lg is also more used because there's something ORGASMIC with it.

In quake, the lg is not more used than the rl or rail actually :). If you only take a look at 1 or 3 players, yep ofc the lg might be more used. But if you take into consideration ALL the players playing QL, then it's pretty balanced. (also, lg is now 6dmgs per hit instead of 7 previously ;))
Rail and rockets are orgasmic to use aswell :p.

Well, you also have to consider, that if you base on fragmovie where by essence the goal is to be spectacular, SR will always have its spot in there because it's 'WOW-bringing" factor of it.

Yap, just like quake midair rockets ;).
But i base my arguments also on the plenty of pros matches i saw in UT ;)

Well, having played thousands of hours of UT (esp ut3) and almost exclusively played ql ctf and CA to warmup with very good people, i would dare and say UT weapons are even more situational than Quake's. Lemme explain why (otherwise it would be retarded :p ).

I'm personally not basing my arguments only on my own experience ;).

By the fact we have a more diverse set of weapons offering more firing modes, we have a very very large panel of very precise situations coverable in UT.

But the fact is that there are not 3452525 different situations actually :p. And you have to take into consideration the weapon switch time which is not instant in UT, as well as the weapons reload time ;).

And like you said, the shock rifle is the most polyvalent weapon, so why taking risks by trying to take for example the rl, pulsegun, sniper rifle and flak cannon to cover basically almost all the different situations, when you can have a weapon that covers most situations and have to get pickep up only once ?
And this logic can apply not only to the SR actually ;)

I didnt follow warsow, so ye maybe.

Well ok for key pressing, i'm used to it so it causes no problem at all for me or any player i know :p .

Well i'm pretty sure the APM would be alike recorded in 20 minutes in somewhat sscaled map. It's not much verifiable though, but ye, i would bet some money about it it's not that much different tbh ;) .

Nah really, from mid skill to high skill the SR should be for a big chunk of ppl a weapon of first choice but i GUARANTEE you, esp for low people, that represents the BIGGEST fringe of the population, shock rifle is NOT the first wepon of choice, at all. It's clearly more about Rox / flak / stinger. 100% sure ;)) .
It's just more polyvalent because of that retarded shock core doing fkn 55 dmg (how retarded...) :q .

There is a statistic site for ut3 (not super accurate, it depended on their release but you could see clearly you are mistaken :p .

my profile: http://ut3stats.dfbgaming.com/index.php?page=...name=ut3pc

I'm known to be a very aim oriented player in UT3, so my hitscan % are very dominant, but click on random profiles, u will see by yourself ;) .


About the 33/33/33 usage, yes i understand that, and that's what i'm saying to you actually. Above mid, SR start to be very important, but all the low guys basically dont play much with SR because they dont have enough aim to use it accurately enough, trust me ;) . (airox in ut3 are way way harder to hit than in ql though :p ).

Yep, your statement makes sense because you saw good guys playing (i hope not talking about ut2k4 because it's known to be very very very SR/snipe oriented), but look at ut3 it's kinda different (once again i refer to the one having the best weapon balance, i think it makes sense)


Wasn't either, but i think i played enough of both even with very good guys in ql to have an objective representative panel for the comparison :q .

Well there are a lot of situation (to be aggressive and not to be aggresive :>) wherein ut one weapon will fit better than another (I underline again that: i dont think MORE is necessarily better though).

You cant use SR only mate, trust me, you just simply cant. Maybe u can play SR only in BTA (ut3 equivalent of CA) or when 2 aim whore will fight in an aim oriented map, so then, yes it's SR pewpewpew.

I think you're overestimating SR potential a bit man :p . Also, only minigun, MAYBE, could be as polyvalent but no other weapon could do that at all in UT(3)..

Well, did you start UT with UT3 ? Because I heard it's the worst UT game out of all.

When I talk about weapon balance obviously I'm more refering to UT 2k4, since it's the most played UT game of all time and also the favorite UT game among the pros players.

I'm also talking about what I've seen in UT4, and the weapons balance didn't seem as good as in quake.








But anyway we can argue as much as we want Quake is still slightly the superior game, when it comes to arena fps. Also, I'm just feeling lazy and cba to explain why, my english skills doesn't allow me to do so and I want to do others stuffs now, like playing quakelive :p.

Look, the main developper of Quake is John Carmack (aka JC the Jesus Christ of the fps :p). Sure he left id software now but the most played quake game of all time is based on one of his creation : Quake 3 :). And the quake spirit still remains after all these years, even without him ;).
Also, quake is older than UT. Don't get me wrong, I played UT when I was younger and I think that it's a great game, very fun overall. But when it comes to competitiveness Quake is superior, it just feels more simple and "professional".
UT still got some pretty good arguments to be a more than decent concurent of Quake, but Quake is the god father of fps. It has aged quite well even after all these years.
And you know, even before quake, there has been wolfenstein and doom, both games were made by id software. They basically were the first real 3D fps video games. I think that when it comes to history, id software deserves more respect than EPIC.
I played the very first unreal game, back in 1998 (the solo game), before it was called "tournament", and I would have liked to start quake with quake 1 or doom 1 :), but unfortunately it's not the case :(. I started quake with quake 3.
Imho id software knows more about how a great competitive arena fps should be than EPIC, because they simply got more experience and there're not clueless compared to some EPIC developpers.


That said, UT is probably more fun than Quake when it comes to "casual" gaming. Simply because it has more weapons, better GFX (UT3 is a very good looking game, and so was UT 2K4 back in the days), more fun maps (like dm17 in quake 3), better bots (except for CPMA bots :p) and so on...
UT even has vehicles, while quake doesn't. So yeah, UT might be more fun than Quake. But like i said, if you want something VERY solid and competitive, quake is the superior game.



Okay now i go eat man, GG CYA and HF! :DDDDDDDD

No i started with ut2k3. Ut3 is not the worst. A lot could not adapt and got raped... so you know... "game sux" . It's a perfect fine game NOW. Start was pretty fucked up and terrible (because it was buggy and shit), that's a fact. Trust me ut3 has nothing to envy at all to ut2k4 gameplay, like AT all.

Also, no, the most liked UT is still ut99. It may seems ut2k4 is but it's just because more people from its generation are still here while most ut99 oldschollers left or moved away from it. Back to clanbase time, ut99 was still the most active (cupwise) out of the 3 ;) .

Well i told so to someone few days ago. If you consider everything, I agree with you: Quake is superior in a sense, feels more polished and competitive player oriented which, i appreciate and salute. The little something that make me say that isthe following:
I feel like Quake gameplay respects more that logic of meritocracy I cherrish so much (even irl).
Ratio between efforts and time invest and reward is pretty proportional and preserved where in ut the armor system and the over deadly weapon add a kind of 'random shit' factor i highly dislike.
Also, to finish, i will again try to cure the venom injected by retards that could not adapt and shitted on ut3 for bs reasons mostly because it was not their "very loved ut2k4 boooohooo": ut3 has nothing to envy at all to ut2k4 gameplay (ty hyper pussy shieldgun +back). I would only place ut2k4 a bit ahead for the UI =) but that's it.

Hf man, cya in Ql maybe. I have you in friends since few months in ql i think (same nick) =) .

Okay ;)

and now kiss

Nice improvement. Keep going. Don't think I'll play it much post launch, but yeah good luck have fun :)

That video is kinda sexy. Gl Nex team! Deserved

I am throwing my monitor at the money, but happening is nothing!

I DEMAND MORE.

More Nex movement

nice stuff, looking forward to a public beta

how about making the damage double when you get hit during the certain movements like walljump doublejump? so those movements can be risky and make you think before pressing the key mindlessly.
i think that can create some interesting situations and strategies

double? that would probably just mean nobody used any of the movement mechanics ever.

Depending on how fast the energy regenerates, the energy bar should prevent the movement from being op and make people think about the risk and reward of making certain slides or jumps or whatever. If they use it too much before a fight or an item they wont have enough to escape I assume.

Or if energy is something you can pickup from the map then your opponent may be starving you of energy and therefore means you have to think more carefully about how much you use

Having a penalty for being hit while wallsliding or whatever could be cool though. But double damage is a little steep

right, i just said double for no reason but just as an example to show the idea.

You should encourage use of movement not the opposite.

Personally I don't like that cartoonish looking weapons and maps.

Im pretty sure the maps are completely untextured right now so they wont look like that when finished

The gun isnt using the default skin, they have a custom skin on it which I personally dont like the look of. This is the original skin right now:

I see. Thanks for the info.
Anyway, whether the game will be visually pleasing for someone is purely subjective. And personally for me another candy-looking game is dull (in terms of the visual experience).

Yeah I'm not trying to change your opinion, just letting you know that things are likely to look different to what you saw in the video if that information is helpful to you

Last Login: 14 Oct 2014.

Was supposed to be out early 2015 : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedet...=236501088

Its no longer being worked on as far as I know. With all the new games that popped up last year this was bound to happen to some of them.

*all of them

I found this in the discussion page on the Steam greenlight page :

"http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetail...501/"

"I think the project is dead in the water. No updates on Twitter since Oct 2014. No updates on the site. The forums aren't even implemented but there's a page for it. The subreddit says that the developer had a mental breakdown. Really sad to see this one never took off. "