Formatting's okay lad

Very nice, gonna check it tonight

Zorak I hope you know you are very handsome for picking up noskill duel faster than anyone else I know.

I remember your aim being pretty bad, but now you've stepped it up big time.

You're bad at QL.

You need [+]'s! Everyone who contributes to the community is a hero!

After watching this analysis of game one. I stand by my point that the rail should be nerfed in some way. Becouse you can calculate a LG fight, you can calculate somewhat a rocket fight. But the rail is just a lottery sometimes(alltimes :))

How is it lottery if my crosshair is on green robot and I press a button?

because every other weapon in quake (maybe not gl lol) required a series of good moves to utilize, rail is just a 60/40 for the absolute best

rail already has been nerfed from 100dmg in q3 (way too much) to 80dmg in ql.

it's good as it is. No need to nerf it more, would make the weapon useless.

The only way I'd accept a RG nerf is if the rate of fire increased slightly. Say, for example, being lowered to 60 hp damage and instead of 1500 ms it changed to 1333 ms or MAYBE 1250 ms. This will stop complaints of it being too powerful and increase the skill required to dominate with it. Lucky rails lose value but good aim retains value. This would have been a preferred balance change over altering LG. You can use RG without fear of RL or LG at certain distances. This is not true for LG. So why penalize players who have good dodge and tracking? LG has every right to dominate in competition. You have to be skilled to do it.

Lg deserved its nerf because it was too dominant on close range, even to rockets. You basically had to hit perfect rockets to not get outdamaged by lg and lets not forget how easy is to hit retarded lg percentage when you pin someone in the corner. The fact its still often used in close range combat by top players shows that nerf didnt really render it useless

It takes just one rocket to pop an opponent in the air. Top players should be able to hit enemy in the air and still have a good idea of where they will land. Great rockets will always beat great LG. Unless of course the LG percentage is robotic 100%. They shouldn't change balance because of evil. Evil's opponents had LG too. So why couldn't they dominate the same? Because evil is better.

I don't think it was done because of evil. "LG is OP" has been one of the top subjects for years on QL's official forums.

Poping someone in the air with QL rocket?
It' ain't q3 mon.

I always love stuff like this. [+]’ed

Great videos. Hope to see more!

I really like this kid and his videos. I see that awesome quake potential, but nigga game nearly dead :(

zorak I hope you go to quakecon and compete in that duel shit, dunno how you'll get in, maybe grab some tier2 ca scrubs and sign up with a team.

Sponsor me and I'll be that tier 2 ca scrub \o/













roadtrip movie will be out next year prms

Always interresting to see ingame analysis at this level. Could you upload the cfg you used for the youtube vids please?

Config: http://pastebin.com/pqTNdRai
Hud: http://pastebin.com/2y9Sf8pP
Hud: http://pastebin.com/DwHHRtpM

I only watched half of the ZTN video, really like it so far. Will watch the rest once I'm home.

+ from me.
I pray that something miraculous happens and the game lives on with bigger tourneys.

:'(

Thanks Zorak! Really appreciated - nice idea

nice content man

you seem to think that most of the game is about who takes the most items.
But in taking items there are vulnerabilities in when/where you move to. If you are looking at why you lost the rail battles it's often due to you being in the more vulnerable position, either due to being on the move towards an item, or due to being in a confined space where you can't dodge.
I guess you know that, but you don't mention it.
It didn't really look like Rapha's aim was amazingly on... tbh I would say that in most fights your rail was showing more control.

That said, you played really good.


As for the timing vid.... I always preferred to just remember the routes I took last round and then 'know' the times in between items.
That way I only really have to time a single item, and then use offsets from there. It boils down to knowing the exact same times but in a slightly different manner.

You make a good point about vulnerabilities during predictable routes, but I usually mention when damage is acceptable and unacceptable to take. Toxicity is a map that I believe to be much more item control based than other maps. I've won games on Toxicity before with -2k net damage, so it can definitely be played that way. I believe I say in the video if you aren't constantly taking items on Toxicity, you're leaving up opportunities for your opponent to grab them and get back into the map.

When remembering just the routes between items and the timing of one of them, you don't have the ability to know how long you can fight away from the item. In the ZTN video, there are times where I'm willing to take small fights and chase for frags because I know exactly when I have to take an item to continue the rotation. If you time by "feel", then you might get stuck in a fight for too long that will give your opponent options off the spawn to get back into the map.

The way my playstyle developed was from having terrible aim and movement, so I try to minimize the need of these abilities in my game as much as possible. Hopefully that kind of explains the reasoning behind my decisions if it was unclear before.

ow no it's all clear to me...
You probably don't know me... I used to play decently in a similar way as you do ;) (nowadays I'm hopelessly out of shape though! :))

My aim has been notoriously crap for over a decade, so I know how you come to this reasoning.


When I say "I remember my route" I don't mean that I remember the order in which I pick them up, I mean I remember everything I did in the past 35 secs. Including missed jumps, fights, delays due to other random stuff, etc. My timing was usually down to around +/-200 milliseconds from the spawn time of the item. I was really timing stuff inside of a second for a long period (although only 1 item and from there I remembered what happened which lead to an average of +/- 200 ms accuracy overall).


But what I mean to say is that due to minimizing the need for "aim like stuff" you actually (atm with your current playstyle, in my eyes) present people with easy damage on to you.
That doesn't "need" to happen... There are ways in which you secure items, yet don't take them. And several other ways in which you can utilize items more.

The most extreme case of securing an item but not taking it is of course spawnraping on aerowalk. Where you just stick to the lower RL area and hit rails left right and center. When you take any damage you rj up to ra and you are good to go again. (ra remains under control while you spawnrape due to how the level is layed out)
Those "kind of situations" are also available to you on toxicity... But you can't take them because you are (almost consistently) on route from one item to the next.

An example of utilizing items more is that a few times in your toxicity game you actually take items while you are already fully stacked. You might want to consider "giving your opponent an item" in exchange for a fair fight. With this I mean that you would give up top YA voluntarily such that you exchange rails with the opponent. Hopefully you will hit one and your opponent will hit one, but for him he goes from 100 / 50 -> 70 while you go from 150 / 150 -> 120 / 100. You will always remain in control.
You will even still be in control if you take 2 rails and hit 1. Especially if you get into such a fight while "securing an item" (mega / red preferibly).

I know that it's a choice of gameplay.... I'm just saying that I feel like there are better alternatives. And that's from someone who's aim is much much worse than yours :p

As a result of the above your timing will have to become a lot more chaotic though, as you sometimes will start to run into syncing problems with the items due to you fighting over another item for too long etc. Which is why I switched from your style of timing to my own style of timing ;)

(that and I stopped playing tdm so there was no more need to say / repeat item times.)

edit: I'm not saying that my style must be the best, or that I somehow once was a better player than you are now...
I'm just noting some differences and things that you might want to think about :p
I never took a map off of rapha so you are already ahaid of me there :D (I only played 1 or 2 maps vs him in my entire life though :p)

Once one has played a LOT of duels then timing to the second becomes less necessary. It's a very useful learning tool, but I'll admit the potency of it diminishes when one's "feel" gets better.

I understand what you're saying and I sometimes do what you say, but these scenarios are what I call, "forcing yourself to hit shots." You may give that YA to your opponent, but if you don't land that rail, he gets away with more than he should have. In my eyes putting yourself in a position where you have to hit your shots to maintain control does not provide as consistent of wins as just controlling everything. On Toxicity frags will come if you keep control, so you really don't have to bait out the items. On other maps though, it is a useful tactic against high-tier opponents.
When I have full control on T7 and a frag lead, I will continue the cycle until the 10 minute mark, but if I am at a frag deficit, I will use positioning to leave up items behind me in order to chase around for a frag, sometimes baiting items out. I just don't see the need to do that on a map like Toxicity.

The timing part depends, there are actually several fights (ra fight on t7 / mh fight on ztn / sometimes mh on dm13) where timing within a second gives you a really good entry into the fight where you pick up the item "as it spawns" pushing your stack over that of your opponent. Most 'good players' time it to the second and then secure the area when that second starts or slightly before (you do the same). There is still a window in which you can do stuff as opponent within that window. (in some cases)

As for the "forcing yourself to hit shots" it's not really the case. If you have a really large stack and there is an item secured by your actions, then even if you miss the shot you won't lose control due to it. If you're worried about having to hit a rail, then make it an LG fight, you get a guaranteed amount of damage that way.

The cycling of items makes one very very predictable. I would try to destroy you just by spamming the route you force yourself to take at times. (Which might explain the 2k RL damage given by Rapha in your matchup. I do find it somewhat difficult to judge though (if that was the case) as I was paying some attention to your own comments and I have been inactive for so long... that I don't completely trust my own judgement. But going by the stats I guess that happened :p)

Love the back and forth analysis. I was worried zorack didnt understand spme of the rail battles etc from his video. Reading i see he does, just putting a vod out for people around my level, instead of weird and higher.

Do you happen to have any demos or VODs of your best matches? I've only seen your match against stermy on DM6 and am interested in your games.

I think that my match vs spartie for some clanbase cup was pretty nice.
(start at)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ8z7Mlxass
(and then just follow the games... Watari uploaded the entire game so)

Next to that I just played in a bunch of zotacs (or similar) cups of which I don't have any direct links.
Perhaps I'm also included in the DH2012 demo pack... would be fun to see me adjust to lan play over a few days.

Good read at 7:45. Nice match I enjoyed that.

Here is the sudden death for anyone else viewing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0KPzgkLmLU

all 3 maps are nice... they should be from the same uploader / being linked automatically by youtube etc.

Glenfiddich 12..... lol @ ca

i want rail to do 70 dmg, QL is too rail heavy

That would suck, rail is supposed to be a big beefy powerful gun. I'd rather have it be 90 damage and increase the reload time instead.

If it became any slower one miss could be fatal. There is already a delay when switching weapons. The best solution I can think of is to reduce damage to 60 hp but change rate of fire to 1333 or 1250 instead of 1500 ms. That is pretty low but if you hit two rails it's 120 hp damage which is close to the Q3 100 hp damage.

Hey, I know!

The rail should do less damage if you are zooming.

Why stop there? IP ban zooming subhumans.

l0l

Rail should do more damage, lower the ttk against hoes who just add 25+35.

why do u have so much trouble with maths?

111 rails.

Updated the OP with the following videos:

Here is a video of me explaining the way in which I play Cure in order to keep control and a bit about why Cure plays differently than most other maps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSgCgkRG36I

Here is a video of me explaining my plans and my team for Qcon15:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HmajJHLoIU

Cure is like a donut.

-Zorakwar

Brilliant. Love that you brought Wilson's Theory of Efficient Donut Consumption into it.

good luck at quakecon :)

If I were to guess right now, you will find playing against non-usa players quite confusing for a bit.
I'm interested to see who will come out on top :)

Ditto. Wish you a good showing at quakecon. Maybe even cause a few upsets, now that would be entertaining...

Some analysis of my Qcon15 duels.

Games vs. Rapha:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UignRFAOnEs

Game vs. Tox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5jFBj1Yt5Q

"Holy shit...." lovely!

Sweet ty for posting analysis.

https://youtu.be/UignRFAOnEs?t=1192
https://youtu.be/UignRFAOnEs?t=1925

nice man