yes, gonna click that. yes.

shock and horror, i think he has a point. Quake is it's own think, the skill ceiling is more due to the game being so hard to play. I wonder why quake players don't migrate to other games with much lower skill ceilings and enjoy raping everyone, but that never seems to happen.

Precisely because the skill ceiling is lowered. That's why no chess player is going to rape everyone in tac-tac-toe. Dumbing down=evening out the playing field. How hard is that to get?

Not that that is the actual reason for it, was just pointing out your flawed reasoning.

erm.. the idea is precisely that.

if the skill is HIGH, then you will do well when the skill is low. afaik the QL community has always mantained that QL skill is just pure unbridled skill and thats that.

But now you are telling me that quake skill only applies to quake, then it's not high skill, it's just niche skill.

So if you are a master in chess, you should be able to pretty much ace a tic tac toe tournament with minimal practice.

other dumbed down games have noob tube weapons, features, etc. to appease to a casual person. fair enough.

but it's not all that enjoyable to be beat by a player who's less skilled than you by virtue of the fact that the game granted him/her weapons, armor, airstrike bullshit, auto aim turrets, etc.

did u read what he wrote?

I didn't see anywhere saying that he or other quake players want to ace or rape in games...

If THAT was what we wanted, we wouldn't be playing quake after all, since we got raped again and again in order to get decent at it (and we stayed and kept trying).

It's exactly the opposite, of what you said, at least for me. The easier I find something, the less I like it. I have no respect for a game that I stand a chance against its players after only a small time of prac. I like challenges and I guess most of the duel players in quake are like me.

Yes a chess player can ace tic tac toe, with no effort, but does he want to play it?... I bet no

Yes a chess player can ace tic tac toe, with no effort, but does he want to play it?... I bet no

Oh look, another one...

it was a reply to his post, not yours

I first played tic tac toe about 2nd grade and in few games understood that you can't lose (or win), but I kept winning and will still do. So, I guess what we presume (the 5 games u said) is not the case for everyone

most quake player like raping other player. you really do not see this? many video show this type behavior. just look any frag video. is mainly frags on noobs to embarass. this is why quake have so many tierslummer more than any other game. i think quake player want to destroy new player, is reason they play game. they cannot rape in other game because they have only play quake for 15 year. article is true.

yea 'cause most montages in any games show people not playing well and not dominating their opponent in a flashy manner

it is tier 5 player vs tier 3 player in those videos

Actually, in that Systemz movie you keep referring to, it's tier 3 players vs tier 1 players.

So if you are a master in chess, you should be able to pretty much ace a tic tac toe tournament with minimal practice.

His point is that anyone else is able to do that so the chess player won't "ace", he will just do as good as the other players.

You know, I thought once I brought up tic-tac-toe anyone would be able to get my point seeing as how anyone that has played more than 5 games of tic-tac-toe knows you can really only draw unless you're playing a plant. Alas, thank you for spelling it out for him.

:|

They are probably both ashamed to this day.

Hey, our corporations aren't any better. There's no escape for the remaining few.

No, what I'm telling you is high skill translates to games with a high skill ceiling. It doesn't matter that you can last 10 hours if your mom cums when you just look at her funny.

A chicken can bring you to a draw in tic tac toe every time.

Seriously, some dude trained a chicken to play it and win constantly. A chicken will never be able to play chess at a reasonable level.

Since you don't seem to understand this fairly rudimentary comment I'm gonna suggest that you go play tic tac toe with the chickens and allow the chess players to play chess.

I hate these flawed analogies people use whenever their point gets challenged in any way.

You do realize that chess and tic-tac-toe* are COMPLETELY different games entirely with different goals. It's like comparing Call of Duty to Starcraft. Yes they're both computer games but they both play very differently.

The fact is that if a person that came from Quake went and migrated to say the new Unreal Tournament game even months after it launched could probably within a few months of intense play actually break top 10 and potentially place at a lan event if there were any lan events for said game.

Are you sure you clicked the right post to reply to?

I hate these flawed analogies people use whenever their point gets challenged in any way.

That shit is just fucking retarded. Where did I make a point which he then challenged which made me write that "flawed analogy"? WHERE?

And what I hate is when I use hyperbolic analogies to get a simple point across which somehow just flies over the heads of a big portion of the people reading it.

Logic

ZERO

Why bother making a point when it's going to get rebutted.

You've got the right idea.

Stop speaking Bulgaria

Games with lower skill ceiling and more RNG involved (heashots, recoil,...) have closer scores between different skilled players. Do you really wanto to invest time to get good and competitive in games where its all about aim and RNG?

Dont get me wrong i hardly invest time in any game atm, but why would a quake player settle for UT, CS, .... ?

Headshots and recoil are RNG?

lmao

Ofc they are. Being able to oneshot someone by luck is the definition of rng

Being able to oneshot someone by luck is the definition of rng

first bullet is randomized, for sure, so there is some element of luck there.

do you think CS is all about rng and aim?

Its also about camping

okay, you have no clue

Ok we will pertend that options to go A or B add so much depth

rofl if you simplify everything nothing has depth.

Quake duel = kill eachother
Football = kick a ball

Buy AK, throw smoke. Find a corner and wait with your xhair placed at head height. Seriously thats like 60% of whats happening in cs.

actually it's less than 50%, considering at least half of the players can't buy ak for at least half of the game, and of the half of the game they CAN buy ak, they can't afford it.

your bullshit statistics are bad and you should feel bad.

Seems like you want to see a team game as a individual game. The concept of 'camping' dont exist in a match

you are funny :D

explain yourself

you have the same kind of 'blindness' for CS as most people here have for Quake.
(due to most of your replies here, not just the 1 I responded to)

Which creates this massive misunderstanding as to what you think is meant by them and what they think is meant by you... Which imho is funny :p

It's possible however I see myself in the middle ground. Im not going to say there is no rng in csgo and i am not going to say quake is the ultimate skillz gaem. Saying headshots are rng is like saying rockets are rng

I've seen camping in ddk's match breakdowns of f0rest.

is there camping in quake?

Yes, but it's rarely effective and never the main strategy.

it's pretty much the same with cs.

T/CT is attack/defend. The CT's job is to hold positon (camp)

i'm glad we agree that camping isn't the main strategy.

It isn't because holding a position is not interchangeable with camping.

Isn't that precisely what camping is? Not moving and waiting for the enemy to come to you?

Do you say flag def or flag camper? Camping is when holding a position which might get you a useless kill but won't win you the round. If you're holding a position as a CT you're exercising map control, you're protecting the bomb site. Which is what you should be doing. You're following the objective of the team, which is to defend. If you call any position holding camping then quake has just as much of it as cs.

This is where qr's definition is wrong: the CTs job isn't to hold any position, but the ones giving access to the bomb site.

What i mean is camping means standing still. I don't see it containing any implication whether the position you hold is an important one or not. A flag dev doesnt stand still. In general you rarely stand still in quake. Therefore cs has much more camping and it is the main strategy for the ct side.

Well in that case camping is done by awpers mostly because when rifling you are generally constantly peeking the angle you're holding.

Either way to say that "standing still" is the general strategy in CS is ignorant.

You are totally right. Excuse me. Standing still and occasionally moving within a approximately 1meter radius is a large part of cs metagame for the ct side.

Yeah it is. And we call it camping in CS but in quake its super duper mega smart tactical positional play.

You are excused.

It works in CS because of the objective of the game.

Lets see how well you do in Quake sitting in one spot for 2 minutes...

Oh depending on the time and score you can do quite well in one spot for 2 minutes. Bulgaria is in eastern europe, I've seen how ztn plays with a 4 frag difference.

Of course there is camping in quake too. Camping a tele exit etc. The thing is that the term camping is something that people who dont understand cs or fps in general, use when they are frustrated. Its very similar to a cheating accusation. You mark the opponent as someone who doesnt play fair and needs cheap tricks to win. However, as a ct in cs, camping at an important strategic point is usually simply the most effecient way to play the game.

ct side in cs is definitely not standing still. if it happens sometimes, it's suitable to a very particular situation.

my point was the because he says the game is an equal ratio of attack and defend, that camping is necessarily not the main tactic.

yes on On Grim Dungeons

Do you actually play counter-strike?

Havent played seriously in atleast 8 years, but i play 1.6 every now and then with my friends, some of which are really good at it and play cs:go seriously and others are casuals like me. We play cs on our lans because everyone is decent enough at it, so we can all have fun playing mixed teams. We tried to play quake 3 a few times, as most of em played it some and know the basics. Guess what happened? - if we play ffa i rape everyone and its not fun for anyone and if we play a team mode i roflstomp em alone while my team is wandering around the map. Take into account that im actually pretty terrible at quake

yes is same thing happened with friends when we play before. they cannot even frag one time. quake is too difficult for new player to learn quickly and have fun. is reason they do not play quake. only quake people who play other game understand this. this is why quake player need to evolve and play other game to see why quake is unpopular. they cannot see if they do not meet new player in other game and see how big difference in skill is there when those player try quake.

this is reason cs so popular. you can compete in first game and get a kill even with no experience. quake player only know this frustration when they play other game like quake with high skill ceiling but most game company are smart and know this already. id is not most company though, they are in 90s still. they will lose most of their player when competitor release arena games.

too many distraction for people. people just want play quick game for fun. no time to practice for months.

Im pretty average in both, cba to play hard anymore. I find instagib a good way to introduce friends to quake as they can get frags easily and enjoy the movement, and they dont whine about why their guns seemingly dont deal the same damage as mine.

Btw regarding #38 im not sure if you described corner camping, or fights at corners. Camping at a corner after buying ak doesnt often work for me as a ct thats not mentally challenged isnt gonna walk out of defensive position when he knows your team has enough money to afford buying big guns after getting priority items like armor.

I would advise against speaking on matters which u know nothing about.

There's no denying there is a huge randomfactor involved in cs-aiming, yet obviously it takes talen to be persistant. The more running and gunning with smg's has been made possible, the more random it has become.

Heck even the mp7 is strong as shit right now.

yes I hate the smg buff, same with tec9. Dont get me wrong CSGO is the worst version of CS to date. But when you have teams with a 47-0 map record you cannot call it a rng fest

No the nip reign was awkward, but it doesn't take away that it's more random than a quakegame would be. Not enough to affect the top of the top of the community in such a way where it ruins progaming, but getting hs'd by a running ak you always know its just random bs.

you just cannot not discredit evidence like that, lmao. Its not how rational argumentation works

Are you arguing against rng-factors in cs:go?

CS games are determined based on rounds won and lost, not on lucky kills. That's why if you and five mates played fnatic, you might be able to get a lucky kill here and there but that would be utterly irrelevant since you wouldn't be winning rounds and you'd still get roflstomped - exactly like a noob quake player would get roflstomped in quake by Cypher.

I already said it won't affect the top levels, doesn't take away the RNG-factor of having a random spray.

The general spray pattern is largely not random, which is why there is such a thing as recoil control. In any case, my point is that CS and Quake can't simply be compared on the basis of whether or not it's easy to get a lucky kill, precisely because in Quake you win based on kills while in CS you win based on rounds.

No I agree on that, never said it could be compared, two completely different games.

It's all about raw aim and years and years of grinding clan hopping to reach higher levels.

because is more competitive. .in quake one player dominate over other and is usually not close score.

Reducing impact that certain skills have to gameplay is often how game devs achieve close scores and fabricate competitivness. In quake if someone is slightly better than you on a certain map he will win lets say 8/10 matches while in some other games he would win 6/10 or 5/10. Rng and luck decide far more close cs games than quake games

Funny you should say that

http://www.esreality.com/post/2376324/john-ca...pid2396848

Carmac wanted to disable consecutive jumps in q3. He sucks at quake. Whats your point

is not true. most game are more complex. is not random factor or luck, is microgame management. where when you do not perform certain tasks in right order or quickly enough or forget, is when you lose but both player can make these mistake and game is long so things can change throughout battle. in quake is different, a better player will dominate player who is not on same level every time because more simplistic. come down to timing and holding item and position. have you play rts? i think not maybe yes?

You haven't seen me in TF2! Or GTA Online!

They tried, attracted by big sponsors and tournaments moneys.

And they failed. "Cypha the snypha" wasn't that much of a snypha in CS:GO.

Rapha, quake's mastermind, tried dota, a game where no aiming skills are required, only tactics; and got raped HARD by unknown people.

After all, it seems that quake pros can only be top players in quake's small pool.

That's why dotas are shit.

nuke

This "article" reads suspiciously like drivel cooloutac would write. I suggest you stop playing your silly, baby-tier OverwatchMOBAs and bow to the king.

Quek.

Hail to the king baby!

duke nukem
u
k
e

n
u
k
e
m!

Behind all the QQ he kinda has a point.

R U S T L E D

He is right imo

I disagreed with almost every sentence he wrote.

The Quake community likes Quake. Wow, mind blowing revelation.

It's just a rant against ESR.

article is right. this is why is important other community like fpspulse is made. need more player with open mind. quake player too closed.

ESR only care about quake. is ridiculous thinking. need to give other game chance. many new arena game coming, ESR need adapt or be left behind. quake dying is true statement more now than ever before.

Not that you made any valid points, but still: what other game should I give the chance; where does a quaker go?

Butthurt pro-casuals often talk about moving on and building something new, somehow oblivious to the fact there are no AAA fps arena games. Should I play Ziggurat or Ratz or Wickland or Toxikk or whatever just because they arent Quake? I won't do that, despite my desire for something new. I like Quake for a reason and, currently, the market offers me no alternatives.

is ok, if you like quake, play quake. but quake stay niche because new player think is too hard.

play new games is simple point, do not only play quake because you see that you will be very much alone in few years to come. maybe is no other game now but i think this changing quickly maybe you see this or not, but is reality.

Quake is a wasteland and yet all those other AFPS games together have less player than quake. Is it esr or quake players fault that those games dont attract players? I seems like youre blaming quake players for not leaving quake to play some other game. Why would we do that?

is maybe true now but new AFPS game are not release. you do not have to leave quake, but must give new game chance. do not say they are shit before even release. you do this in reflex thread. i see you there. must have open mind i think is better yes? maybe you will see that other game have ideas that quake could use to make more popular. quake need to change to attract more player, if you do not try other game, you will not learn new things that you may want to see in quake game that make other game popular and can make quake more popular. otherwise quake will always stay small playerbase.

have open mind ok?

lol this russky mexican anon just posted 10 comments and it's really hilarious if you read them out loud in a funky accent.

Quake good yes? have open mind ok?

maybe you are ignorant but not every person in world speak only english. i speak 4 language. i try my best, maybe you can try to be less condescending? thanks

I try less condescending yes
No problem you welcome yes

Im critical of reflex because every decision they make trying to differentiate reflex from cpma seems to be.... well, not good and its only there so they can say reflex is not the same as cpma. Imo there is nothing wrong with cpma, there is nothing that needs changing (except maybe some weapon balance tweaks, but many would disagree with that). They could have coded matchmaking for cpma, or if they really want it to be a whole different game they should have gone with either completely same rules and gameplay as cpma or they could have added something completely new. Instead all they do i remove features that cpma has (brightskins, timing and who knows whats next..). That isnt all that surprising tbh, since cpma devs are good coders (can code a decent netcode, apparently they also can code matchmaking...) but they are such an unimaginative bunch at the same time. They made a mod for quake 3 that didnt bring anything new and original but copied QW, then they made a whole new game that is same as said mod but with item timers.

On top of all that they are hypocrites for making a mod for quake 3 and now when that mod is a standalone game they dont want to allow others to mod it further. If id had that policy cpma would have never happened.

That is pretty much everything i dislike about reflex

i understand, you have valid points there. maybe reflex will not be the game to bring player in. we will see.

who wants to get drowned in a shit ton of posts from COD/CS fans on a generic FPS site?

ESR has its own purpose.. too bad we chased away the UT guys, in hindsight we had more in common than we'd like to admit

manufactured controversy. intense focus on negative attributes of the community, while disregarding contrary evidence. blatant confirmation bias and generalizations.

it's okay to want your desired game to exist. you don't have to want something 'new' that a general audience can easily get into. it's okay to be niche and stay niche. it's not cowardly to enjoy something that has been refined over time, such that it is difficult to pick up.

we shouldn't go and change the rules of soccer, just because children have a hard time scoring goals against professionals. the problem with quake isn't the gameplay or the history, it's accessibility.

quake development hasn't kept up with modern graphics and conveniences, such as matchmaking and vanity markets. they've compromised the gameplay instead of addressing those issues, thinking that the problem was how 'hard' the game is.

people enjoy difficult games. people enjoy mastering mechanical and mental tasks. people don't enjoy indistinct skill tiers that result in lopsided games that feel unfair from the start. it's not the skilled players fault that this happens, it's the platform's fault for not handling it gracefully.

Also, two noobs don't need to know how to strafe, what the maps are or anything and still have fun... if they actually were playing each other instead of hitting play now and winding up in a t4 server with 183 ping.

what can a man do, faced with the idea that his favourite game is easier than quake? Admit that he enjoys it anyway, and that skill ceiling isn't important to him? No! Fight for it! Create doubt! There's just no way this extremely fast fps with on-the-fly interpretation based strategy could possibly be harder than any other shooter, no matter how many elements are removed from it. It's all different, apples and oranges.

Sure, there is some point in creating new gametypes, in listening to your own creativity instead of the same old Quakers. It's a wonder though, why everyone's creativity tends to limit, slow down, borrow elements from team-play based shooters?

Could it be that those "original" minds don't understand that for that niche, which doubtlessly has existed since 1996 or earlier, and has since lost home, you have to jump, work with your strengths, rather than keep trying to eliminate weaknesses?

I gave in to clickbait. Let's see if the author is brave enough to not delete my comment.

Nowhere in the article does the author answer the main point people in ESR and other deathmatch fps communities crave. They want the games to play to the genre’s STRENGTHS. Not keep chipping away at it’s weaknesses which are irrelevant for the people who have an urge for deathmatch games. If the games have a niche at all, it won’t be filled by a game from a different genre.

I suppose arguing against the idiots and defeating everyone else via straw man is easier though. Sure, those that want an exact replica of Quake 3 are wrong. You got that right.

Oh wait, Dota 2 is the second largest game out there, perfectly identical to Dota. Oops. I suppose you have no point at all. At least good clickbait in the article name.

Looks like it was deleted already. The author has a lot of poor arguments which would be just too easy to pick at. Would be like playing tic tax toe, or LoL ;)

Holy shit my [+] is 8% worth. You deserved it though.

It probably needs to be approved first. Lets hear your analysis of his arguments then.

meh

Lets dumb down Quake and call it Shootmania, it will be a huge succe... oh wait.

most of the upcoming arena fps games are going to turn out like shootmania.

2GD is the only hope we have left.

Hi James

only hope for quake player? or only hope for player looking to play fun arena game? many new arena game will be fun to play, but no other arena game will bring same feeling as quake 3. only quake 3 can. maybe is time to look in future instead of past?

No lol, Regimmick is ded.
Q3 was the pinnacle, the mainstream audience is what failed, not the game. Give up.

arena fps are dead ... we live now in pay2win/play2win era with super intelligent games like Wow, Clash Of Clans where you have to play endlessly to level up without really achieving anything ...
in quake or chess you can sometimes really achieve fantastic things, like hitting very good with rail or rocket launcher, doing a rocketjump and aiming like hell, or in chess you can pull of really complex tactic ... such things just dont happen in those levelup games ... and yet these dumbed down dumbo games are the games that are being played nowadays ... I think humanity has already reached the point of intellectual climax, now its just an intellectual downward spiral ... people watch nowadays series instead of reading books, play dumbed down level up games doing repetetive shit all day

lol @ this post

So we should just quit and all go play csgo as one giant clan from quake. Slaughter them all, get bored and come back to quake. Moral of the story: fuck other games.

He makes some valid points for AFPS developers.

I'll still play quake and keep visiting esr tho as a gamer.

ESR is actually just 3 players from each country, all circlejerking about their personal favorite games

jergling.wordpress.com is nothing but one person's opinion, who was shat on by esr users and got butthurt so he took it to his personal blog that nobody reads. Now that is cowardly.

ESR does not create or drive demand

Thanks for pointing this out, I was beginning to think that game developers came to esr to see what types of game need to be developed. Because it's such a balanced view of gaming as a whole.

the users are being given significant influence and respect by new developers

This makes it sound like esr is some sort of significant game review/ feedback forum for game developers. 2 comments - firstly, this forum is a really great place to find hardcore quake players, funny enough. And that seems a pretty good place to playtest AFPS games. You know, with people who have played them all their lives. Secondly, it's not like game devs are being forced into decisions they don't want to make by the almighty bitching power of ESR.

When they pull a /v/ and say “this game is objectively inferior to Quake because I can feel how low the skill ceiling is”, they’re actually saying “this game doesn’t feel exactly like Quake and I’ve lost my ability to develop metagame on my own"

No actually we mean what we said, games with low skills ceilings have low skill ceilings. Gettit?

This, precisely, is why developers need to disregard ESR’s collective thoughts on new arena shooters completely

Hey, be fair, we are donating the 17 (out of 18) players to each new AFPS game so it seems fair we get to have our opinions heard. And as before, there are like sooooo many game devs reading esr. Like perhaps more than 1.

Disregard ESR’s response unless they have advice that’s specific and technical.

Holy fuck, did you just call for an esr boycot by all game devs?! Ok, let me get my PhD in AFPS GAME STUDIES and then you'll listen to me? Also, have you ever actually visited esr? If you want "specific and technical" opinions about AFPS then this is the right place.

It betrays an intense insecurity about their own skills and intelligence

I sense that your anus is still gaping from the last time you joined a ztn server

They’re cheap bastards, and even if they decide to try one of these new games, they’ll probably get frustrated with it and go back to their freeware anyway.

I can literally picture you smashing away at your keyboard with righteous anger as you typed this. Fuck the poor people! Fuck the people that simply enjoy playing games that don't cost £45 pre order. Fuck the dirty plebians!! SCUM AMONG GAMERS


COUNTER RAGE MOTHERFUCKER, FITE ME IN ESR

I sense that your anus is still gaping from the last time you joined a ztn server

gold

=b(  o  )d=

Yes. But why would you bother even?

I was in the zone, man

So, basically we need a game that has higher skill gap than CS:GO, but lower than Quake so the kiddies get in. I present to you.

COUNTERQUAKE
O
U
N
T
E
R
Q
U
A
K
E

let make new gamz

h u eh ue hue

Capture-strike.

The article is damn right.
Quake is a great game, but the skill cliff plus the tierslumming are quake`s end.
ESR is just a circus, pro players only visit it when they need money.
The average ESR user is an unskilled noob, that barely plays quake and uses ESR to pretend that he is somehow decent at fps.

Nowadays ESR is just a playground for ...
noobs talking like they are pro,
admins not being able to control banned/probated users,
zhu`s sick videos,
morons making threads about whatever came to their mind on the toilet,
retards compensating their time overflow by commentating everything with boring jokes,
cheaters seeking for attention,
jamerio`s inferiority complex causing racist posts,
jamerio pretending he is black and from poland calling himself dizzle
and
cmss awaiting a punch into the face.

Quake is great but doomed to fail on a large scale and ESR sucks big time. Welcome to 2015 wmo 1.1a users.

You don't miss a post on ESR, do you?

ESR user, can confirm, visit ESR to pretend to be somehow decent at fps.

Yea and there are those guys who strive to distance themselves from esr who point out how shit it is and feel the need to announce it on esr again and again. They belong to esr too.

: D

Don't forget about our "pro quake players bird rescue" campaign.

lol skill ceiling talk again :D was any quake pro, aside from winz, actually relevant in a game that wasn't quake or a knockoff (painkiller)?¸

also, if skill ceiling is such an issue, why don't you dipshits play quakeworld instead of quake live?

Because only the truly despondent and masochistic would ever honestly play QW now or start it anytime in the last decade. If you weren't there for the growth (1999-2004) you'll never catch up in a meaningful way. Even the tier3 kids in QW would dump on 90% of the ESR userbase.

Edit: Particularly if you're European. Have fun playing anybody in the Nordic countries.

Stermy

reflex is the answer,
but whenever I look there are maybe 3 servers filled up and 10 people are playing, and theyre all playing duel ... I wanna play FFA, I just dont want to get so much into duel and wait around endlessly until its my turn or wait until players decide the warmup ends and the match can finally be started ...

Nice worthless pile of shit you get there.
You can keep it.

The title is clickbait garbage but the article itself is hard to disagree with.

I personally couldn’t give a fuck about skill ceilings, competitiveness or whatever. I play quake and label it the best fps because it has the most fun mechanics. How anybody can for example prefer counterstrike’s
* movement system consisting of walking around at 220ups with no means to actually accelerate
* weapon arsenal consisting of 20 slightly tweaked variants of the same few hitscan guns
* recoil+spread gun mechanics that make every single gun feel like a piece of crap and hit registration like a lottery

is beyond me.

This! Strafe jump is just second nature and what boring place would the world be without airrockets?!?!?!

Well.. It's not like the fun mechanics are separate from the skillcap. Or the boring stuff in CS. It's hugely related.

I agree with the article.
Too many Quake players don't really want a new game they just want the next version of Quake. What's the point in trying to remake Quake and suffering through a whole new slew of bugs only to be left with the same small player base? If that's what you want just keep playing Quake and stop thinking about new games.

I play new games. I do not think a properly developed new quake with the right platform for competition, anticheat would end up like the current situation. I believe quake could easily be as popular as the top e sport games again.

But that's just like my opinion, man.

i do not understand this thinking. it can only bring in same player, not new player unless quake is changed at the core. where would new player come from and why if game itself is the same. game is too fast and unfriendly to newcomers. this will be same in new quake too. it is gameplay that make quake, quake. it is too frustrating to learn for new player, most are just casual player who want quick fun game. quake take at least month or 2 to be able to compete at tier 3.

only chance is new fps is made that have quality of quake and other popular shooters that people like in combination. is possible. but new quake is not answer.

new quake = same result (niche small playerbase)

What is "quake gameplay" to you? I think at its core it is about entering an arena to smash your opponents with (mainly) futuristic weapons while being able to use your wit and experience to gain a significant advantage. QL is just one implementation of that. A new quake does not have to copy QL imo.

Too fast? Too hard? I don't get this kind of thinking. People generally like to be challenged. I do not think the difficulty in quake was solely the problem for a newcomer. Mostly it's the nonexistent introduction, training and matchmaking. Also the graphics, but that's not a major deal breaker for most fpser fans.

Anyways, I certainly hope you do not fully believe that people prefer tic tac toe over chess. It's nonsense. Poker is huge yet most people lose. The extreme difficulty doesn't hurt the game population at all. Quake was huge and is still revered as one of the greatest games to ever exist, regardless of what anyone who missed out thinks.

I am forever baffled about how little was given to the quake live project. So much potential...

But who cares. Back to the real world.

It's not so much the difficulty or the fact that they lose. What people don't like is how they lose. They are pummeled to the ground non-stop during 10-20 minutes without having a single chance of fighting back if there's even a slight skill difference. That's not how it works in other difficult games, usually. They are allowed some fun.

""I do not think the difficulty in quake was solely the problem for a newcomer.""

if play against tier 5 player ? yes is a big problem. players want get few kills and have fun in trial period. why so hard to understand? against top players they do not even get one kill many time. is 1-26 score fun?

is ok for quake to be hard, but quake player get destroyed for first 3 month before he can learn. cannot learn like that.

this is why playerbase keep dropping. sponge cannot fix tier and syncerror do not want stop tierslummer and new player do not know other players to play in pickup and pickup is only for top players and ... you see many problems. it is almost impossible for new player to adapt. most people do not have patience and will not wait 20 game or more. they quit in first day.

i play diablo 2 once. in my first game, there were 2 hacker in game who kill everyone constantly for about 20 minutes. could not do anything. i never played that game again. this is same thinking people have when try quake for first 20 games or less.

many problems with quake and yes id do not care about those things. only new maps mainly. very sad for company with legacy of quake.

Let me get this straight: you're completely aware that quake's biggest issue is the absent separation of noobs from veterans, yet you scream the core needs to be dumbed down? That's some next level logic right there.

No, Quake's not hard. Just move and shoot down other people, optionally grab a weapon or armor. This principle comes natural and makes minecraft or skyrim look like fucking rocket science.
Anyone can enjoy Quake as long as they get paired with people on their level, meaning the core is fine.
Skill gap? CS has also huge skill gap (talking about the teamplay aspect here), still, it became huge, because newcomers dont get to play NaVi in their first match.

So please. If you want to whine about something, whine about the nonexistent development and support of Ql, as there's been literally zero work done to keep the new players around.

game is not popular for many reasons as you agree

maybe another company will care about game. id do not.

Couldn't agree more. Have written about this here extensively back when they came out with that infamous loadout update.

I would like to add though that the core gameplay of Quake might not be appealing to the modern day gamer.

The modern day gamer is pampered. Take a game like DirtyBomb. Even if you totally suck at the game they give you the impression that you are doing good and are accomplishing things. In Quake there is none of that and it's very unforgiving and fast. Frag or get fragged, the end.

Quake's core mechanics do not require an update, they have ripened close to perfection over the years (ok, the new lg and hmg is a small step backwards).

Basically it needs two things:
- Gameplay that is fun to "casual" players. I actually like the timer approach of reflex, it is a step in the right direction: Do not fuck with the core mechanics but lend those who need it a hand. However due to the super fast movement system I do not think the game will ever have a large playerbase.
- A competitive aspect that is fun to watch. Let's be honest, even with the best casting crew QL is boring to watch for the majority of gamers. Especially for the team modes there is a huge potential to improve here (top down view, instant replays etc).

So yea, you can of course change the game at its core to attract more players, but then it is not really Quake anymore. On the other hand, the elitist view is stupid too, I agree with the article on this. After all it is only a video game and the main reason to play it should be having fun.

But it is not hard to guess that those who feel the urge to constantly put themselves about others because they play a certain video games have something to compensate for, e.g. a shitty life or a small penis.

"glory of UT2004" What?

Quake is not the only high skilled game. Look at RtCW, many Quake players tried to be someone in it, but they failed. czm for example was nothing special. And any low-average dueler in it can destroy best quakers.
It is almost dead today for exact same reason. No one wants high-skill games anymore.

Lol. Almost every single top rtcw player came from quake. Czm played the game for a few months and was in one of the best teams of the world. Of course back then quake was pretty much the only other fps game that existed besides cs, so it's no surprise most players came from quake.

I meant players who played Quake seriously. As you say, of course they came from Quake since it was almost the only online FPS, but many people did not play Quake seriously in that time, just like many ppl played panzer/flamer 24/7 on beach pub on rtcw.