tl;dw go bridge

jajaja

ok ffa

Pretty cool however public CA can be bit random as sometimes people play to win some for fun and some are new to CA but I guess it's just bit of fun with what's left of quake although I still prefer TDM

I watched these videos which are pretty cool too and worth watching

CA 4 vs 1
https://youtu.be/N-KBMjkPg44



How to get good skill vs talent

https://youtu.be/_hJA7OPX5CI


Has similar style to your video but I think it's a different guy :)

Edit: tried to embed YouTube videos but didn't work maybe mod can edit :/

Yeah. That's rocketjumpninja https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGJaDZC7PChgd-XMwcbZkiw

Is that the esr storm who called everyone here ffa scrubs?

Ever since Elo came back, there's like no teamwork at all in CA. The very guy telling everyone to meet top/bridge/wherever, is usually the guy hiding round the corner, baiting his team so his own score looks good and he gets his elos at the expense of his team losing the game. Maybe I'm just playing the wrong servers. One or two games and I leave and go play some FFA where there's more teamwork. Can't find any TDM servers anymore, and the only CTF server that isn't insta is always full and with a load of specs waiting to get in.

Yup, agree with the elo-backing.
People who I before saw as decent human beings are now shamelessly full every round when everyone else is dead.

I did it even when there was no elo, pls

i had the same experience and i told predathor this morning btw. It's utter shit. And even if it doesn't pushes ppl to do that in the first place, it rewards the retards that do so and you are stuck with these cancers that are supposed to carry you but they are really what makes you sink. Old elo was better.

Yeah, when the elo took team result into consideration, people played as a team much better. People whined that they lost elo by being on a team of noobs, but the players on the teams are random. The only constant is yourself. If you are winning less than 50% of your games, it's because of YOU. Red teams win as often as blue teams. The players on them are completely random. Except one of those players is always YOU. That's the only constant and the only thing that can shift the balance of probability above or below 50/50 over time.

Besides...the whole, entire, only POINT of a team game is to do all you can to make your team win. Leaving your team outnumbered - reducing the damage they can do - and using them as bait so you can get free damage early on, and easy frags on weak, rushing enemies at the end, may get you to the top of the scoreboard, but it's not how you win for your team.

Whats even better is that the damage is back to being not exact. If a guy has 1hp and u direct rocket him u get 100 dmg dealt.
I a routinely having games where i start with 2k dmg and 2 kills and end on like 4 k and 8 kills. Meanwhile the dude above e has 20 kills and 500 more damage after baitng me the whole game and hitting phantom damage. So +b do nothing is even more inflated.
What's even funnier when u say so to predathor he treats u like a retard and says that u make no sense.

Oh my GOD! So, by the time the baiter is last standing, and half the enemies are on 10hp, he still gets awarded the damage of the weapon, above and beyond,what actual damage he did to the enemy team? That is ridiculous. I get the feeling that Predathor doesn't play team games much. He argues that hiding and baiting will just leave you outnumbered at the end and reduce your output of frags and damage because you will die quickly. In reality, there's the free damage you do from safe distance (which doesn't help your team much, because you are not presenting the enemy an extra target, so one of your teammates will be 1v2 because of you) Plus, the enemy tactics when chasing down the last man go out the window. People rush, full of confidence because it's 1v4, and they are all low, so racking up frags is easy. And with the overdamage included...you're right. That just encourages people to bait and run. How he can say that hiders don't benefit, knowing that overdamage is counted, is beyond me. If you kill 4 guys on 1hp each, you did 4hp damage, not 400. The system should be counting what you DO, not what you could potentially have done if your balls were larger than peanuts.
Ever since Elo returned, I average 1k damage per frag in all the games where I end up playing with these people. I refuse to drop 2 or 3 of my team even deeper in the shit just to live a bit longer myself. Keeping those 2 or 3 guys alive a bit longer is worth more to the team result than keeping myself alive longer. If the enemy is working together, and one of your team is off baiting, there's an instant 1v2 somewhere in the battle. And damage does not scale with numbers in a linear fashion. The 1 in a 1v2 will not do half the damage of the 2, all things being equal. So, baity McBaiterson, has put one of his team in a position where he dies before he can even do 150hp damage to the enemy team and now there will be a 1v3 somewhere on the map for his team and the process will escalate. Baity McBaiterson, may point at his damage and frags and say he's helping his team, but he's not. He's lowering the damage and frag output of every other guy on his team. Unless he has the mathematical nous of a Southern Fried flat-earth religitard, he KNOWS this. He just doen't care. He plays for his Elo, not for the team

The other thing...you can easily manipulate this to get more damage by never finishing guys off with LG or MG. Once they start to scream, people can just switch to rox or rail and pick up free damage that they never actually did.

I think all that he needs to change is that the overdamage should not be counted, and the team result SHOULD. Maybe just a X1.5 score bonus for everyone on the winning team.

After all...in a team game, you are there to get the win. A player who helps his team win more games, is better than one with high frags and damage who costs his teammates their lives and reduces their efficacy as a team.

There is an additional problem to that. And it is that you can win elo from your teammates. So not only the baiter is supposed to carry but is the problem, hits phantom damage, score meaningless dmg on hopeless rounds, leaves u in hopeless situations and loses u the game, making everyone frustrated. He also gets rewarded because he lowered your damage imput.

Very often the guy who really wins the ruound is a guy who keeps 2 ppl focussed on him, still hits damage and somehow survives. Meanwhile his teammates have it easy 3v2 and start a snowball effect killing everybody. The guy who won the round hit only 200 dmg and survived. And in this system he gets punished.

It's not a matter of not playing team games either. damage based rating is real bad for duel too as it routinely happened that guys like
agent got 1k less damage and won by 10 while being in control all the way through. It also rewards tierslumming.
I think his logic is that this system punishes winjoining and other minor side problems the old system had. But instead of addressing them he changed the system completely and now we have this.

It's not a matter of not playing team games either. damage based rating is real bad for duel too as it routinely happened that guys like agent got 1k less damage and won by 10 while being in control all the way through.

that would be just crazy for duel. Fortunately, it doesn't work like that. Instead, it counts only wins and loses as it should. I am just clearing that up to prevent any misconceptions.

How are players rated after a match: http://www.plusforward.net/post/4488/Rating-QA/

Fair enough. On the other hand i realized for ca it is not dmg, it's even worse as it's score so kills take a part in it. Lol. And read the amusing part where he says that ppl dont use rating for shuffles so he made a system to make u in competition wth ur own team and dont lose elo. Well guess what? Every server uses rating to shuffle so having one that rates how good u are at beating your teammates is beyond the point.

damage based rating is real bad for duel too

except current glicko only use damage to determine who won and who lost, not the actual rating outcome.

"Glicko does not care about the calculated scores, only win/loss/draw matters. By 1 point or 1000 is irrelevant. Your rating is adjusted by winning multiple times and not by winning 1 time with a big margin. On Toxicity 20:0 wins are common, on Lost World not so much. The score is only used to put you in order with other players in the same match."
qlstats.net

"Whats even better is that the damage is back to being not exact. If a guy has 1hp and u direct rocket him u get 100 dmg dealt."

Have you tested this or do you base this on your "feel"?

Every first round the winning team has more than 1200 dmg combined. I noticed the first game of the first day.

Explains the bloated pickup damages.

With the old elo, I was like 2350 at my best (noob with potential), though I don't care very much about the elo. It's just fun to see adequate ranking based on your performance once in a while. I pretty much always play position, don't bait and stuff like that, I just play in a manner if it will secure a win for the team under any circumstances, then it's good enough. Even if it means letting someone from my team lurk around and for me to do as good as possible in unfavorable situations (like going at least even in damage output in a 1v2 etc.), so holding position and providing presence and time for my teammates to act. This kind of system isn't able to value that.

The current ELO isn't able to put in context of how the score is obtained, it's very flawed for a team setting. Previous system much, much better.

not to mention, that with current ELO you can actually gain it while losing, which is total BS imo

I have trouble believing it. It could be true. Hope not. But I'd be interested to find out for sure

It is check qlstats.net glick description.

You can gain glicko when losing and you can lose glicko when winning:
http://www.qlstats.net:8080/game/159396

Yet everyone whined at the time about it!

They were idiots, what else to say. I never had a problem with qlranks system, because it made absolute sense to me.

Try #capickup at quakenet. Sometimes its random, but mostly it is good games, played to win.

lmao. who cares what this storm shitty says when he doesn't even average 35 lg or 50 rail and only rail baits all game?

http://qlstats.net/player/385#ca

Win Rate: 72.49% (253 wins, 96 losses)
Kill Ratio: 1.79 (5004 kills, 2803 deaths)

actually its good to not have a k1llsen make a tutorial. if you hit 45 percent lg 60 rg constantly, tactics no longer apply to you because you win all of your fights even the ones where you are in disadvantage. The guy has tactics based on imperfect aim which is what people who watch ca tutorials need.

Region: AUSTRALIA
Elo: 2067

lmao

Pick any 1700 elo shitty in NA and their opinion will be just as valid.

Are you trying to suggest good players aren't in Australia?

Noctis might disagree with you.

Country: United States of America
Elo: 1700

lmao

Pick any 1400 elo shitty in EU and their opinion will be just as valid.

I played CA in europe and I found the average skill level lower than Australia. I reckon Australia has the best pub players in any game since we have smaller numbers and the same people always playing
Having said that Australia can never win anything internationally at the highest level because of the same reason.

Agreed, I think we would do well in CA overseas.

i actually hoped, for comedic's sake, somebody answered with
Region: Europe
Elo: 1400

lmao

Pick any 1100 elo shitty in RU and their opinion will be just as valid

Russia? 1100 Elo? Ha! An 800 Elo scrub from Iceland would destroy them!

I'd say the average skill level is probably higher, But the level doesn't go nearly as high. On an EU server, you could have 3 or 4 of the top 10 rated CA players on the same server as guys who only just installed. I'd say there are more good players in EU. There are just a Hell of a lot more bad ones, too.

Well yeah, europe will and usa will have more best and more terrible players, I think because Australia has less people it's a narrower range which brings up the total average.

i have been saying this exact thing for 3 years and everyone just laughs at me.

ayyy lmao @ ca

who cares about positioning just try to hit shots, game mode is literally warmup mode.

ca sucks for warmup you hare dead doing nothing half the time

Not if you warm up first with a little FFA

A warm-up mode for what exactly? There are no other busy game modes. It's clan arena 24/7 here in the states and duels on the side.

If it's a warm-up for duel it's a terrible warm-up. But you've earned my plus cause I can't stand clan arena anymore. Esp in quake live, what a fetid pile of crap, not even worthy of standing in the shadow of the old rocket arena emblems.

lol @ ca tactics

back in the good old days 2002-2010 meet = enemy was more than advanced tactic

nowadays its quitting b4 5th round, team stacking, elocollecting + mistrust

RIP RA3 ;_;

Thanks Storm / mouse , every effort deserved a plus and not any shit discussions like LOLca or this gametype sux or any other mess here.

You should post this on steam ql forums

All I remember from CA is

BRIDGE
NEXT TIME GO BRIDGE
WTF ARE U MORONS GO BRIDGE
WE ARE LOSING BECAUSE WE'RE NOT BRIDGE
HOLD THE BRIDGE
NO ONE WAS ON BRIDGE
I'M ALONE (best part)
WE LOST BECAUSE WE WEREN'T ON BRIDGE

If you're overaimed and overpositioned you can be BRIDGE for the rest of your life, you will lose all the same, not to mention that current CA appears to be based on one guy using his team as meat shields who weaken his opponents enough so he can get out of hiding at the end and pick cheap frags for his glory.
It's also the same guy who screams at his team, calls them NOOBS and USELESS and tells them to GO TO BRIDGE.

.

There's quite a lot of such people in all team games in QL. They talk about teamplay and do teamplay only when it suits them. But if shit hits the fan they're the first people to abandon team, suddenly ragequit/spec and hurl expletives at their teamm8s. Some of these people are actually good or very good, just total assholes to play with.

They THINK they're leaders and want to lead, but they cannot because they lack what makes a real leader: humility, friendliness, willingness to help weaker teammates and motivate the team.

It's so easy to say FUCK YOU WORLD like little kid.

And in team games such attitude really hurts, especially when enemy team plays together and you feel abandoned and totally disorganized.

You forgot

I WAS ALONE VS 5
YEAH, ME TOO!
SO WAS I!

But yeah...this post, and the ones that follow - the self-proclaimed "MVP" pointing at the scoreboard to support his baiting - pretty much sums it up. But, sometimes you get just the right people who work together at the meet to split the enemy up, then find the 2v1's that make you win no matter how much individual skill the players on the other team have.
To say there's no tactics, is just typical ESR Duel master-race bullshit.
Just like in any other game, even if you applied every waking moment of your life, you'd never master it tactically. Otherwise, there would be a player out there who has never died.

To use tactics you need people who understand them, and many don't. It's these rare moments when you have the team that just flows and everyone "clicks" into place when you realize how important this is.

You can hear "no tactics" applied to lots of gametypes. It is quite funny because, at their core, they all require some kind of tactics. What options you choose and how you play them is your choice, but ultimately you *do* need a plan to get thru the match. Even mindless spamming is some kind of a tactic.

If CA requires no tactics then CTF and TDM also don't require tactics.

Going by the same logic:

TDM - just camp the red, mega, good guns and swarm the powerups. lolTDM tactics.

CTF - just defend the flag and attack enemy flag lolCTF tactics.

Exactly. Adding 6 or more other players, adds more tactical possibilities to the game than just a few powerups.
Megahealth - Imma be back here in 35 seconds
Human player - Imma deliberately try to do what you don't expect me to.
Red armour - Imma be back here in 25 seconds
Human player - I know what you need to do to survive/win. I know you know what I need to do, and Imma use what I know about what you know about what I know, to catch you off guard if I can.
Keeping track of just the HP of 7 other guys is a wee bit harder than adding 35 to stuff.
Fighting your own fight, while filing away every bit of damage you see everyone else doing on screen, and on the damage feed is a lot more involved than just "Kill the other guys".
CA is as tactical as you want to make it....like every other game type. It just so happens that, some people's tactic of choice is, Imma hide and leave my team a man short. I neither know nor care that this will cause a snowball effect that will get them all killed rather quickly, because all I want is to hide back here and maybe get some free damage, then rack up some easy frags later against enemies who are over-confident, rushing, and on low health, thanks to my now-deceased teammates.
It also seems that certain countries produce more of this type of player than others. I have no idea why that should be, but, Nie opuszczaj druzyny. Przestan sie chowac! Udowodnij, ze masz jaja (wieksze od fistaszkoów)

Im not gonna say CA is completely retarded, but both TDM and CTF have infinitely more depth to em. CA is the most basic mode with most basic tactics

CA is different mode with different strategies- the depth you can take either is limited to the player not the gametype. If you can't expain it simply then you do not understand it well enough.

Duel is Chess and CA is Tic-Tac-Toe?

hate it all you want- stereotyping and compartmentalizing CA doesn't make duel any better.

JIST LET THERE BE BUSY PUBLIC CTF GAMES AGAIN FFS.

That's not true. Even in a board game like Chess, where there are fewer than 50 moves you can make in a given turn, the complexity is way more than any human mind or computer can deal with entirely. In anything that's not turn-based, it becomes massively more complex. You can go as deep as you want with it and still never reach the bottom. Doesn't matter if it's duel, CA, paintball, or beach volleyball.
In fact, adding items REDUCES the complexity somewhat, in that it introduces an element that forces some predictability. However, infinity reduced, is still infinity. The same game has never, and will never, be played twice.

fighting with lg twice in a row with a position 300 units to the side the 2nd time doesnt make it a unique situation. If you added another figure to chess it would make it even more complex. Adding items doesnt add predictability, it adds another think you have to keep track off. What is predictable is going into fights each round where you know the stack and weapons on your opponent. CA is the simplest mode in quake. Theres regular positions you hold and where you fight. There is no pressure to move from a good spot because theres no items to go for. If you won the initial fight and your team has more stack you can just wait it out top because your opponents cant stack up. I see nothing wrong in people liking CA and some people play it better than others. Theres certain skills you need to excel at to be good at CA, but theres more skills involved in being good in any other mode (out of the competitive ones: TDM, CTF, duel). Pick a best team in CA scene and let them play TDM vs a top TDM team and then let the two teams play CA and you will see a much closer result in CA. Why is that? because CA is straightforward

items are important in measuring abilities in a 1v1 gametype as they mitigate stalemate style tactics- and to that end duel is much more viable to quantify individual skill than a 1v1 in CA.

to address your comparison of tdm and CA; many of the skills in ctf and tdm are unique and are certainly in addition to the fundamentals in CA; frustration at this point is understandable but it just simply does justify dismissing CA. The concept of CA is to take the core of the game (aim, all types of movement, reaction time, position, teamwork, awareness) and unrestrict them (no self-splash damage, fall damage, team damage) to levels that the other gametypes dont focus on- you can improve at lower levels in tdm/ctf more quickly by improving your timing or something intrinsic to those gametypes instead of the factors that contribute to improving in CA. To conclude, when taking the best tdm/ctf players the problem is that many of them are the best CA players (id_ gwc viju rapha cl0ck whaz) because they have taken some of the most basic things to levels beyond what most are capable of- because it is about the player not the gametype. *drops mic*

On a side note since I'm irritated; factors that you are ignoring in ca: the pressure to hold positions and finding/exploiting positions that are in advantage to your enemy's position while recognizing this in the first 10 seconds is incredibly important. There is so much more than just holding top, situations are possibly the most important factor in CA- forcing 2v1's with an important rocket that forces your enemy off a ledge etc. Communication- id est last standing but your team communicates the entire enemy team's health since they're competent enough to know how much damage they did, moving positions to gain weapon advantage, recognizing your team's position and setting yourself up in a spot where you maintain the player advantage (round based vs. spawns) if you have one- and if you don't then finding a spot you can avoid someone diving at you or throwing stack around.

yes, there are patterns in ca just like every other gametype but I think you're being too narrow-minded to appreciate the depth that can exist in CA.

All you need to be decent at CA is good aim/combat skills. I've never seen anyone with good combat skills struggle for long in CA. I've seen plenty of people with good combat skills get absolutely and hilariously destroyed in Duel or TDM.
Just look at what CA players practice, they practice dodging and aim 99% of the time. In the meanwhile Duel, TDM and CTF players practice tactics 99% of the time.

CA tactics can be summarized with: Don't do stupid shit.

Saying that adding items reduces complexity just shows a lack of knowledge about the fundamentals of Duel or Quake in general.

The problem with playing a game this long is there are a lot of simple stuff that we take for granted.

CA is still a very difficult mode for new players, despite not being as tactically complex as TDM, CTF and duel.

When I play a game of CA it's like going on autopilot, and I do everything by reflex and familiarity. But that's because I've been playing this game for the past 16 years.

The same can be said for duel, it's mostly just autopilot and I can still play at a high level.

Saying 'All you need to be decent at CA is good aim/combat skills.' is a very simplistic way of looking at it, there is a lot more that goes into having good aim and combat skills, it branches off into lots of things which is what storm is covering in these guides. He is targeting new guys, not the old dinosaurs like me who have been playing since 2000.

hard to have competitive tactics in a gamemode that has random spawns that can influence it so hard

movement.

cheaters

10 sec countdown saved you

On most maps you have ample time after respawn to meet up with all or at least some of your team mates before countdown ends. Communicate.

Considering the absence of another goal than "kill everybody lol", the only strategic aspect is probably the randomness of spawns you have to adapt to.

Considering the absence of another goal than "kill everybody lol"

like its any different for any other FPS game or even player vs player game to begin with :D

Look at Counter Strike, the most popular one :).

Whats up with it?

There is an objective.

You have to blow the bomb or "kill everybody lol", alternatively you have to defend the plant or "kill everybody lol"

Yes, you can achieve the objective without killing anybody. More precisely, you don't have to "kill everybody lol".

No, you can basically get to anywhere on any map before the round starts regardless of where you spawn..

Isnt Quarantine the only exception to the rule? Or was that before the round timer got increased? I cant remember.

With 10 seconds you should be able to get anywhere.

Before the timer got increased, only Overkill had 1 spawn where you couldn't get top.

i liked this a lot, nice production and content. and i hate CA. make more!

He just made a second part,https://WWW.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=zSdt2BsALAE

Nice place to see opinions of people I've never seen nor in tournaments nor in something different than a pub 3 tier CA.

Next time I hope to see a couple good CA players commenting this type of thread anyway..

tru dat homie

LoL NCLPharton

Source not good?
I played long before positioning even existed and basically "created" them in a couple CB leagues with other teams such as faces of meth, krs and others back in 2009-2010 and since then they never changed and got also in pub CA.
That's a fact.

Authority?
The few players I judge top in the CA scene haven't been playing for months/years and aren't surely the ones commenting here; nor the aim heroes everyone aknowledges.
That's showing how to aim; different thing is to give out some tactical information on CA. Many CA heroes in ESR have nothing to do with knowing how to play a 4on4 CA

Keep in mind, some people on ESR have been playing and got sick of 'tactical' OSP CA since 2000, not to mention much bigger RA3. So, good use of quotes :)

at least i caught my trout

lolCA

All right, all right... those referenced your statements, not you yourself. I said "good advice can be good advice irrespective of the source" and "good players don't always have good advice". The lost art of subtlety.

You don't need to prove yourself to an online nobody, hal. I know you're good.

Gert gerd shertties.

Good point. Since you are a good CA player, maybe it would be nice to have some input from you, or maybe some videos