Error: The target user can't receive judgements

we give you pluses in exchange for this guy.

You may now kiss the bride

strafe/rocket jumping and air control

esr meltdown incoming

Probably as an option. like in quake live. who knows tho

to me it seems they are going to mix abilities and physics

i cant think of a way to do that without it ending up complete garbage

i can, but it's tricky

its probably going to be a moba (overwatch) with strafejumping. he talked about how champions is evolution of fps so it does sound like overwatch with movement physics. perhaps a nice compromise, who knows.

being able to pick up all weapons and timing items doesnt really sound like overwatch

First thing he says is that it's not going to be a moba, and the development started long before Overwatch.
Yeah, it's definitely going to be exactly as you described.

I know that people like to throw around the word MOBA as an insult, but it seems to have become so prevalent, that I can't help but question people's insight to the genre.

Overwatch is not a MOBA. Nothing about the gameplay is reminiscent to the objectives of games that we do consider MOBAs. If you conflate the genre to be any game with character abilities, next we can conflating FPS's to be 3D-platformers because of irrelevant similarities that do not define the genre itself.

I bet it'll go like this with the "champions" :
Q1's guy is gonna have air control
Q2's guy is gonna have double jumps and a grappling hook
Q3's guy is gonna have... no self damage from rocket jumps (from CA) ?
Q4's guy is gonna have crouch sliding and ramp jumps
This kind of stuff.
Would be cool, but difficult to balance.

does he actuallly mention air control? I didn't hear it in the video, but I didn't give it my full attention.

I kind of assumed they would vary the movement and hp pools for each character as well as abilities.

who knows. tbh i dont trust him to understand what hes talking about

He mentioned air control but never said it would be CPMA or QW style. It could be VQ3 style (yes it has limited air control) or something else.

Obviously not the special physics thing that some niche mode players call air control, but just normal air control like in normal QL where you can move a bit while in air.

i dont know if i can trust this bald man

:D

I laughed, but I've passed from skeptical to cautiously optimistic.

This sounds very positive, let's hope it can get the numbers.

C T F
T
F

BUT ITS NOT QUAKE. I MEAN QUAKE. ER QUAKE? QUACK? QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!

R E F L E X

oh

Hes doint it wrong, youre supposed to tongue punch such amazing fart box.

it fits with the new doom's soundtrack

yes please this guy for quake ... WETFLYINGPANTIES!!

]

This guy and 3 Industrial bands that i actually pick do the soundtrack for Quake be. 3TEETH, NIN, KMFDM (and Front Line Assembly).

fuck yes

sex

6min20: "we brought in quakelive players that are really good.. we sat them down.. we had them play this game.. and they were like: Yes.. this is good!"

????????????????????

people already played it last quakecon? who can give us infos?


also the answer about a console port is pretty vague... seems to me like he doesn't want to label it pc-only at this point....

noctis alpha tester

plz god no noctis already fucked up QL don't let him fuck up QC as well.

QL is a great game, so well done Noctis. I hope he makes QC even better!

...

I have not played or seen the game yet.

Just the type of thing someone under a strict NDA would say. 8)

WINK

whats it like?

Noctis, when you get given early alpha testing access please also consider mentioning to iDsoftware that your other Australian Quake player friends, such as myself, are keen to help in any way possible as well.

just tell them to bring in whole plusfwd/esr to playtesti it and chillax until 2020

and fuck the release then!

we will improve it over and over to the perfection and beyond till we rebuild it to the very Q3ATest, which is what ideal quaek should be.

nah just they would contain poeple here with a diversion ... the rest of the world would get QC as they see fit :)

wth, he quite clearly states, that they are gona PC focus the bejesus out of it.

you're actually right... i overheard him saying "we're not planning on making a console version"

i just never heard the word pc-only in any video before :x ...sry

he says strafing not strafe jumping

He has confirmed strafe jumping in the E3 interview:


jump to 4:12~

Don't you mean strafe jump to 4:12~

Don't you mean ledge pop to 4:12~

rocket jump

fuk classes man :/

No, they are
C H A M P I O N S

yes because youd expect it to not have +moveleft

ofc he wont say there wont be strafe jumping he will say something like this to cover his ass, u feel me nigga?

maybe well get aircontrol and no strafe jumping, like cs :D

yeah half ow half cs

POLA VINO POLA VODA

))))))))))

We've seen pics of you being incredibly and overwhelmingly white. So now you just sound like a try-hard idiot talking like that. For your own sake, knock it off.

ow that was replay on nigga thingy? hahah :)))) hes my nigga boy right from d hood, where we sling crack and pimping whores

u catch my drift homie?

aight talk to you l8r, peace my homie

its his way of showing, you are special. :) :*

It makes sense we would be skeptical of his understanding of what he is talking about.
To be fair to him, I've seen some Quakers doing the same mistake over the years - some of which verifiably had working knowledge of the moves, but just named them wrong.
I'd give Willits the benefit of the doubt.

and ctf only matters

finally..

Who are these pro players that they let play the game?

obv nda u dumbos

sync and sponge?

WinD

inb4 betatester

https://youtu.be/_s0JxVIfaV8

https://gyazo.com/183ce1fc8fa61a3a59a122193189fc31

his excitement was powerful enough to snap my neck in 4 positions

cmss

Probably Rapha or other USA pro

I don't think any pro player played the game.

DUEL CONFIRMED

good shitz ... respect!

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=20
Is QC a moba?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=39
What's the goal with QC?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=89
How would you compare QC to OW?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=137
How do you plan to get the QL players to move over to QC?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=205
DOOM was a success. How does DOOM compare to Quake?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=242
Will it be a PC exclusive?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=271
Why is a no-fps-limit game important?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=310
Will there be the classic modes (DM, TDM...)?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=347
What was your experience after introducing QC?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=408
Will there be an open beta?

https://youtu.be/RvDyLCadGGY?t=429
Shoutout to German fans

Better formatting @ pf

if they put grappling hook in ctf

orb + grappling hook + strafe jumping is a fucking game changer for sure

whats orb?

ORBB
R
B
B

the teleporter (or in ut terms translocator) that ranger uses in the trailer

ah transloc!

Sounds pretty good so far, and sounds like they really want to put some effort into this, making it what pc gamers want.

\o/!

gøkn!!

You know it. Exciting stuff!

This was really great news! Makes me just more hyped for the game! Keep taking feedback from Pro Quake players and we will all be fine!

Problem with id is they always release barebones games and either never introduced features needed for proper competitive play or introduce them a decade too late.

I don't want to rely on an OSP or Q4whatever it was called this time.

That's my biggest concern.

I doubt they'll make the same mistake again. Enemy colours/models will probably be the first thing they add.

force models when there are diferent champs... i dont see it happening

I waa reluctant to say models too, I'm sure there's a way around it. If not then maybe they'll give bones a real sick ability and 'ScaleBearer' a sgitty one.

We're talking about a company that since Quake 3 Arena has made nothing but mistakes over and over again when it comes to multiplayer.

• Quake 3 Team Arena

• Doom 3

• Quake 4

• Enemy Territory Quake Wars

• Quake Live

• Wolfenstein

• Doom (2016)

Perhaps they'll do their research, perhaps they'll listen but at the moment the developers behind the game are id (known to release barebones multiplayer), led by syncerror and sponge (the guys behind all the cockups in QL) and co-developed with a team whose experience with competitive multiplayer is Halo...

We'll see, lets just be optimistic. Im sure te halo crew can make a decent matchmaking and rankings system.

matchmaking and ranking ye... game, no.

Q3:TA wasn't THAT bad. You must remember, that this expansion pack was released ONLY becasue UT99 was a successful game.
Back then people were saying "yeah Q3 looks so outstanding, but the content is so poor and outdated compared to UT99. In Q3 you have what? only 4 game types? Few typical weapons? And UT99 is so much fuuuuun, larger maps, many different and brand new gametypes, alt-fire weapons, mutators. It's a lot more fun than Q3!".
Quake 4 was made by Raven Software, not by an id.
ET:QW was made by Splash Damage, not by an id.
New Wolfeinstein didn't have MP mode at all.
And when it comes to the new Doom, id were saying from the very beggining that they want to focus mainly on SP campaing + MP was made by some outside studio, not by an id. This game was made mainly for the console, causal gamers, not for "hard core competetive PC gamers". Looking from a Quaker eyes I'd agree with you that MP in the new Doom is shit. But I've been a console, sunday gamer, then I would really like MP in Doom. So (overall) id did a good job with the new Doom.

PS. You forgot about Rage's multiplayer :) which was the worst from them all IMO.

I don't know mate, you should be more optimistic :)

He means wolfenstein (2008/09, i dont remember), there was mp and was terrible

You do realise that id don't just say 'Raven, make a new Quake game for us' then ignore the whole project until it goes gold right? Tim Willitswas in charge of the Quake 4 project by the way, even if he wasn't actively designing or developing it.

If they wanted all of those games multiplayer to be more than bare bones they could've done it.

Quake Live was released and was completely inferior to Q3A + OSP/CPMA for years. Arguably it still is.

I am optimistic for this new Quake but I do worry about that side of things... Doom doesn't have a demo feature or private match for example.

Why was Quakelive inferior to Q3A + OSP/CPMA? What do you base that on?

Last time I looked QL was still missing features and some features were implemented worse. There weren't really any features in QL that weren't in OSP/CPMA.

And then there's the fact that QL has always run worse and just felt like an unoptimised version. The CQ3 client was silky smooth by comparison.

Still a very vague answer. What features were still missing? What features were 'implemented worse'?

QL "running worse like an unoptimised version" is not a fact, it's how you felt it.

If you answer questions asking for facts with the exact same answer as your last comment, don't even bother mate.

For one an informative and clear scoreboard. You could also fully customise the team overlay and create your own map locations.

If I cared I'd go on but I don't...

lack of xerp and mvd

I could be wrong, but aside from Qlive, I don't think id ever made a game they were promoting as an "esport".

They actively fought against competitive features in Quake Live for years and then even when they did introduce said features it was completely half-assed or simply inferior to whatever we had in OSP/CPMA.

Their vision of Quake Champions being a competitive, esport, game will be very different to ours.

Q3A was basicaly the earliest example of that, back when id still had some semblance of an identity as a company, and in the earlier days of the internet when it could still function like a community grass roots type thing, outside of just vain social media.

As far as i can remember it was the first example of a game gettin large input from its scenes best players as well as a general consensus. The only other example i might can think of is street fighter.

But I guess u can say id for the past decade isnt anythin like the id of the mid 90s, so then i guess your point stands.

aircontrol :D

.

Wow, sounds great. And I haven't even finished yet :-)

this video literally alleviated every single one of my worries outside of visor's wallhacks

i've never been this hype for a video game in my life

better have a fuckin plasma gun!

Even the new Doom MP has a plasma gun (though more similar to Q4's) Seems here to stay

im a beast with it in doom

"Enhance" my ass. How does inhibiting gameplay based on the model, sorry, champion you choose enhance gameplay? Sounds like he's trying really hard to say it's like OW, without saying it's like OW. And you know all the n00b features they added to Quake Live will be present. Combine all that with a low tier Russian studio working on it. GG.

Oh yeah, Bethesda/id are really going all out on this. This douche-bag and the rest of them talk a good game about how arena fps is the heart and soul of their company (I believe they've said something along those lines before about Quake Live), and how they all cherish Quake, etc, etc. Yet their actions are always a stark contrast to what they say. They're salesmen plain and simple, never trust a salesman.

Sounds almost too good to be true. The FPS genre has certainly been booming lately and now we get a new UT and Quake!

No user-made mods -> another incarnation of TeamArena on idtech(i+1)

I must be dreaming.

Every time I watch these interviews with Willits it just keeps getting better and better.

If he actually pulls this off he's going to be regarded as some kind of prophet.

I wish they would be bold enough to remove timing items. It's such a boring gameplay element that takes away the fun. It's not visually appealing or intrinsic to the gameplay that we have to time in our heads. This will put so many new players off.

I guess we need to strip quake of all things that make it quake, so people will play quake. It would be easier for you to find a different game that fits your criteria then to expect id to massacre quake to the point where its no longer quake. I dont get why a game has to be called quake for you to play it, you obviously hate everything about the actual game

I agree with disrepute and there isn't anything unquake about it.

Think about human psychology for a moment: your working memory (or the span of things you can give active attention to) is limited, and having to gram it up with arbitrary/banal number memorization to make the game harder is a very dull, unoriginal and unimaginative game design concept which precedes the times when game designers actually understood how players think. As dis said below, he is not against item control, he is against the robot like activity to divert your attention from the game. As a game designer you need to think about what is the process that a player does during the game: what does he actually do in the game and what does he actively think about. Some things are more fun to think about than others. Timing items is at the bottom of the list for most people, that's why people struggle with it.

I'd say a good parallel to understanding how working memory works is voice chat in TDM. It's a limited resource and only limited amount of information can be said out - can be put into the focus of the team. Currently active attack planning and tactics organization is very limited because we are just shouting numbers most of the time because it's an important thing to do. I would much rather like to discuss how we are going to move as a team for the next n seconds but currently it's virtually impossible.

What other way of controlling items you propose? Global timers? Quake live item timers? Camping a spot for a certain amount of time for item to spawn?

I gave one idea in this post if you persist on keeping the current game modes: http://esreality.com/post/2823127/n-a/#pid2823122

You could also have it reset automatically for the guy who picked it up.

I would personally look into reworking the game modes.

To add a twist to your proposition, a guy on reddit asked a few days ago if there is a way for him to have multiple timers on HUD, each with different base. One with 30 for mega and one with 25 for armors. Like one counts 0-30 and other 0-25 and then reset and do it again

IIRC Quake 2 players had a sound timer that started when they pressed a button and started counting down as it was approaching the designated target the mp3 was built for.

Ye, people also changed sounds in pk files in q3. Like 25 sec silence then countdown from 5 instead of mega pickup sound:)

sv_pure 1

That's actually a great idea :O

Could make all armor/health respawn 20s after they wore off, like qw mega.

I would go with HUD timers or timers drawn over the items (possibly through walls) but only activated if you witnessed the item being taken.

Speaking of game design, one possible solution would be to make major items spawn based not on time passed since the last take but on other metagame variables - for example, based on total frag count, or frag lead, or something else.

Never thought of this before. I think using the total frag count in particular could be sick if implemented correctly.

Also, about making Quake Quake.

For me timing items is not an essential part of Quake DNA. The most fun duels I've had have been frag limit 1 or 2 duels because both of us know the initial item timings for first 3 minutes or so by heart anyways and the amount of active memorization is a bare minimum. Energy can be invested into thinking about other things.

If I'd have to say what makes Quake Quake I'd say it's the tactical variety: the different ways to move and the weapons that behave completely differently from each other (meaning they are useful in different situations) is what gives a lot of different things to do or situations to be in during a game. Which kind of ruleset this has been put into is unimportant for me. A good Quake game in my opinion will make it so that people can use their wits to create asynchronous fights (different weapon vs different weapon) in favor of the weapon they have. This can be done by weapon control, traps or having some class/character building system.

This also means that if they figure out weapons, movements or items that have different working mechanics from the current or items that promote tactical variety then I hope they add them.

Thing is. Dis wants team focus. He now says he doesn't want item timing, yet he doesn't like CA. It feels like he doesn't have the slightest idea what would satisfy him. All he knows is that he hates ca, duel and timing

It's because he wants something new. I want something new also. I think all of the current modes have severe flaws in them. The problem with the Quakers who are left is that they can't think outside of the established game mode framework. We are not limited to the current set of rulesets, we should be ready to experiment with completely different things. As long as the tactical and strategical variety is there then I don't see any reasons not to.

I'm fine with almost every mode they come up with as long as its symmetrical. Every game nowadays seems to go with stupid ass asymmetric modes like attack/defend , payload shit and so on. Asymmetric modes are cancer way to deal with your inability to balance the game, so you give each team a chance to play both roles. Then you have "T sided maps" and that kind of stupid crap

To be honest, your average CTF game has the same elements just presented in a very chaotic fashion :P Modern games seem to clarify the situations a lot and try to make it more "viewer friendly".

Its not a fair comparison. I CTF if you overextend and die you're in danger on getting scored on (like counter attacks in soccer). You switch between defensive and offensive position many times per game, while in asymmetric modes you're only attacking and then only defending for half the game. Its a snoozefest

I don't disagree.

Ok you played CPMA and sucked at VQ3 we get it.

CPMA is a mod.
CPM is a game ruleset with certain movement physics and weapon balance.
VQ3 is a game ruleset with certain movement physics and weapon balance.

Can you elaborate what are you actually trying to say?

I think what he was getting at is that, since you cannot time to the second in CPM cause the clock doesn't display seconds, anyone who dislikes timing is nothing more than a CPM fag in disguise.

Literally every "no timers pl0x" fag is a CPM fag in disguise that was never good at VQ3.

dahang himself said he doesn't "think" about timing items in game, it comes natural after some time but he rather thinks about how to pick up favourable battles or getting good shots, i think it was some dreamhack but can't recall which one

I'd be down for 1v1 being a hoonymode-style gametype.

Why do you think most of the activity on Quake Live was/is Clan Arena?
Any new player wants to focus on movement and shooting in such a game and not have to robotically calculate in your head when the items are going to spawn. Yes it makes a very hardcore game almost like chess, but this means the game will never be appreciated by many.

I play every game type, but probably the most fun I have is in CA where I don't have to time items. The issue isn't picking up items, but I believe if the spawn times of items were indicated just like you have when spectating, you'd be able to enjoy the game a lot more and focus on other things in the game.

Because thats what you seen when you look at the server browser unfiltered.

Even if you hide empty servers you'd see a lot more CA servers with players on them than all the other gametypes combined.

I want the 8player ffa servers back :(((

This is why ESR needs a minus button to give comments a negative %

I agree that its not something obvious to new players. Its not something that people can easily see they should be doing and would know how to do. But I do think its a fun and worthwhile mechanic.

I think theres a lot of room for huds and tutorials to get the idea across to new players and make it instantly obvious how long an item will take to respawn. Then the natural progression is to time this using the clock

Something simple like when you pick up red, an RA icon appears in the bottom left with "Respawns in 25 seconds" next to it or something.

You also dont need to time and a lot of players dont. Just find a good way to convey the respawn amounts for each item to a player and they can take if from there.

QL currently doesnt do that and you have to look it up online if the thought even occurs to you, but I think that can be fixed pretty easily

Item control is fine, but mentally timing things is just not a fun activity. This is a game after all

R E F L E X
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L
E
X

So are you proposing that we use something like Reflex's timer HUD, or UT4's current powerup timer or perhaps something different?

I've found/got some examples of concepts some other people have come up with, but I personally can't decide which one would be the best, they all have different benefits but I feel like some could cause issues that make the game less fun.

Reflex
http://i.imgur.com/yvJWjAO.png

Current UT4
https://unrealtournament.atlassian.net/secure...rticle.jpg

Some UT4 community concepts
https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/fo...entid=4878
https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/fo...entid=4764 (This one is in the new DOOM)
https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/fo...1411048299

A concept I came up with long time ago (pls forgive the terrible text)
https://a.pomf.cat/qwhjci.png

The only problem with those solutions is that as I understand you can't conceal information from the enemy. The most robust solution would be having a timer that you can active with a button press that starts cycling (one does 25 sec cycles, other does 35 sec cycles) and every time you press it it restarts the cycle. So for armors, since they are 25 sec each anyways, you can just remember the order of them, with mega you know the exact time. This system would also mean that if you are not there for the item and enemy delays it then your timer is off.

This is one possible solution, but I'm not really fan of it because of the extra button presses you have to do. Maybe in practice it wont be as annoying as I imagine it to be. Need to test it first.

no timers or seconds on the clock.

time by feel.
have to learn to stay calm.
clock is like training wheels.
Time to get off the tricycle nigga...

Hmm, I kinda like that idea where if you're near the powerup spawn, you can visually see how much time is left but if you're not, you have no idea.

This would still require the individual to time if they do not wish to waste time having to check whether the item was delayed. Interesting concept.

I would rather take the entire timing element away. I feel it needs a new concept.

This is very vague. Would you like to elaborate?

Agree with Matuka. If it needs a new concept, what would be a potential idea? To simply 'remove' it and allow players to have built in timers, I think, would severely lower the skill ceiling of the game. Timing, in general, can be the basis of a large element of the game: tactics and strategy.

I'm not sure I'm down for the removal of item timing but I'm definitely down for different ideas that doesn't make it such an arduous task to be successful.

In my opinion the perfect way way to remove "timing items" part is to make a way to show the respawn of an item youve picked/seen pick/heard being picked that way to still have the item control part but you dont have all items respawn time displayed while sitting in a corner.

What do you mean? If item control is a part of the game then players have to time. even if the game told you when items spawn you still have to time them mentally. Quad makes a sound when it spawns but players still time it. How would id "remove timing items" and still keep "item control" as part of the game?? remove the clock from the game? Draw always on the hud when the next item will spawn? if you take mh at 1:23 the game automatically displays "next mh @ 1:58" until it spawns again? would players know always when items will spawn or only items they themselves get. fun is subjective too. strafe jumping might not be "fun" because it dosnt make sense and is difficult to learn. remove that too? add wallhacks because its not fun not knowing were the enemy is. add aimbot because aiming is hard not fun? where do we stop?

Where do we stop? How about we analyze things individually, independently? It's not some kind of slippery slope where removing one thing will lead to other things being removed.

Do people actually think aiming is not fun? I very much doubt it. Not FPS players, in any case.
Do people actually think not seeing the enemy at all time is not fun? I very much doubt it. Not FPS players, in any case.
Those don't even need to be discussed.

Strafe jumping? You have a point with that. Quake players love it, non-Quake players often see it as a stupid exploit. I actually expected id to get rid of it for their next Quake.

Item timing? Quake players themselves generally don't like it. A large majority of them don't do it and even play a mod where there are no items to pick. I can't imagine outsiders wanting that.

Cooler for a start, me also. Youre seeing your own likes.

Quake = strafej/bh
If you remove them, you kill quake.
Timing? Could be interesting how it would effect the gameplay, but still, im for a separation between noob/casual gamemodes and competitive.

For team modes, maybe. But it kinda detracts from the arsenal of tactics available to duelers. Messing up timings on ra or mh can be pivotal moments. Confusing your opponent is fun so mentally timing is fun, from a certain point of view ...

Timing is just another way to add variety and room for different playstyles to the game. Some players put a heavy focus on timing 2 or 3 items and so cant focus as much on other things because of it. Some players like fazz (I think?) dont time and so will naturally have more room to focus on positioning and all that other stuff

The best players would be the players that can time 4 items, have insane aim and perfect decision making, but nobody can do all of those things because its too difficult. Having that unreachable skill cieling is appealing and it means players excel at some of those things but not all and creates different styles

If they can come up with another way to create a skill that does the same thing as timing but is more fun then I'm all for it, but that would be really difficult and just removing timing without replacing it with something that gives you the same benefits wont do.

At my shitty level at duel, I enjoy timing because my brain is overloaded with things to think about and its a nice feeling. If I can get myself to calm down enough and time mega in a duel it feels really rewarding. I like having lots of things to think about and keep track of, even if I'm not very good at it. So I do actually find it fun.

Different strokes

no one fucking force you to time items. 99.9% quake players, doesn't do that.

TDM

what tdm?
what does it change "Mega in 10sec, ra in 5 sec!!!"
and "Soon mega, about 10 sec, soon ra in few seconds!!!"
The spam still gonna be there and you won't have 5 min to slow fucing chat about postion, strategy and so on.. btw it's already a different story..

Depends on implementation you moron.

timing items is like racism

it's really stupid but too ingrained in the culture

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Xenophobia and racism are "ingrained" as both are natural and part of a man's survival instincts.

reread what i wrote or u got dyslexia m8 hehe

integrated =/= ingrained

thx m8 fixed m8 hehe

Timing items is a whole meta game in itself in dueling. First you want to remove duel entirely, then remove item timing. Just becasue you don't enjoy duel doesn't mean others don't enjoy it or enjoy watching it. I haven't played SC2 in years but I still watch the major tournaments and really enjoy the depth of the game at the highest level in the GSL.

Take SC2 and apply your logic to the current game. You would remove one major part of the meta game in SC2, then see what kind of reaction you get from the pro players, the casters and all the fans. They will say you are trying to dumb down our game. If Quake had the same things going as SC2 no one would tolerate trying to remove a major part of the game that makes Quake duel have so much depth and skill ceiling, instead people like you are trying to make it easier and more friendly to newer players at the cost of removing core Quake elements.

i never said I didn't enjoy duel or don't value the skill of timing items

timing items is like l cancelling in smash, it doesn't really raise the skill ceiling all that much at the highest level of play since competent players rarely miss an lcancel just like how competent duelers rarely mistime items, but it would make the game much more approachable

basically it would lower the skill ceiling a little bit but lower the skill floor significantly

i don't want to see the mechanic go, but it's probably for the best if it did honestly

I think the best implementations of timers are the ones where if you don't hear an item get picked up you don't get the time. That at least keeps an environment of imperfect information.

Remove it from casual play sure, but professional tournaments should 100% still have item timing.

timing in duel is such a huge factor on a wide range of skills. maybe im biased because its both something i enjoy and the strongest aspect of my play, but i think its an essential aspect to quake. its one of those things you can focus on when you feel outaimed. and delaying items and other mindgames are always fun. and you can always get better at it. timing more items, not forgetting times in stressfull situations, taking less concentration from other aspects, etc

Item control is. Timing is just the tool you use currently to achieve it. Timing is boring for most players and puts many new players off. I know I couldn't be bothered playing duel simply because of this, and like everybody on here I played thousands of hours of Quake.

You didn't play duel because you didn't want to time items? So... you spent thousands of hours only playing CA then. I mean, the other mods all have items that need to be controlled. If you played TDM how did you control the items? Maybe you could control the items in duel the same way you did in TDM? Plenty of good players play duel by just feeling the items. You don't even have to use mental arithmetic.

Face it. New players don't like being raped over and over. They don't have allergies to timing or items. They just don't like to lose. I'm sure one of the reasons CA is so popular is because when they do inevitably lose the game is "reset" very quickly and they're tricked into think they have a chance 'this time'. If you're losing in duel you have to lose for 10 minutes. If you're losing in TDM or CTF it's even longer, but with CA once you die you have to wait a couple of minutes at the most and the round is reset and you get to try again. Plus losers can imagine they've contributed to the win if their team manages to actually win a round, regardless of their actual performance.

Getting rid of timing but keeping the idea of item control (which you haven't even explained how you'd do it) doesn't fix the problem.

It's much easier to time and control items in a team environment where your team mates also help timing and remembering the item timings than when you're playing duel. You also have a lot more going on than just timing the items unlike Duel which is pretty much all based on timing the items.

You make a good point about players who don't like being raped over and over, but with a proper match making system which match people together based on their skill level, this can somehow be a lot more limited than if you allow any player of any skill to play anyone else of any level.

My game buddies from other games I've brought to quake all liked the game, its physics, its concept, its movement, its weapons and so on. But all of them were put off by having to time items in duel, tdm, ctf and even ffa.
You can tell me all you want that people can play by feeling items and not calculate the timings, but the reality is if you play against an individual or a team who does calculate the timings in the gametypes mentioned above, you will mostly likely lose or at least have a massive disadvantage to expect winning the game.

I agree this is what made quake so hardcore and interesting, but it's also the reason why there are so few new players to the game and also why you can't except to launch a new game like quake champions with the same flaws that will make the game only played by a couple thousand players instead of a huge community.

you're right it doesn't fix the problem...people that are worse will always lose to people that are better, but by removing a mechanic that:

1. almost every new player has never experienced timing items in a game (at least in such a fast paced fashion);

2. doesn't EVER make sense to not do;

it will make the game a lot more approachable for newer players and not really lower the skill ceiling much. it's one of the few things about quake that can be "dumbed down" without really compromising the gameplay significantly.

if it remains, i'm more than willing to bet someone will introduce a third party timer that will virtually be undetectable. it happened in LoL; they eventually integrated it into the game.

basically this

just like if you removed l cancelling from smash...it's not going to change the metagame/how the game is played, it's not going to significantly impact higher level play, but it's going to make the game more approachable

the reality is dueling is a minority for a reason..just like if nintendo were to somehow remove l cancelling from ssbm, as a smash player i'd be upset for sure...but I'd understand why and I know that in the long run it would be good for the game

Still needs further clarification. I mean, timing really is 2 processes:
(1) The arithmetic part, or rather, knowing that e.g. an armor pickup time of 02:43 corresponds to a respawn time of 03:08. The numbers game. This is the part of the game where I agree people shouldn't have to learn doing that.
(2) The remembering part. In the example just given, it means remembering the respawn time of that armor (and/or the mega) until it spawns, all while playing the game, and maybe building a relative order of other item spawns in your mind off of that. Keeping track of things. In my opinion, this is much harder than part 1. I'm not sure if I think people shouldn't have to do this.

Now if we look at existing quake games and derivatives out there, different approaches exist regarding what players have to do, and what is done for them:
(a) You have to do both. Knowing the respawn time and remembering it while the game goes on. This is what qw/vq3/ql Duel, CTF and TDM do. You get a digital clock, and it has seconds, meaning players can time to the second. You can forego the knowing/calculating part, and do it all by feel, but you're at a disadvantage if you do that when your enemy knows the respawn time by the second.
(b) Part 2, but not Part 1. It is made impossible for you to really know the respawn time of an item (meaning you have to rely on feel), but there is zero visual or HUD indication which item spawns at what point in time, so you have to kinda keep the order of spawns in your head. This is what CPM Duel does by taking the seconds away from you.
(c) Both parts, kinda and kinda not. What QL noob FFA does. You get a visual indicator at the item spawn telling you how long the item takes to respawn, but it's accurate only up to 5 seconds. So assuming we want to gain max edge over our opponent(s), we still have to do part 1 (knowing exact time gives you an advantage), and you kinda (and kinda not) have to do part 2, since you can't be looking at all item spawns all the time.
(d) You don't have to do either of those parts. This is what Reflex does, by giving you fully scriptable UI and exposing all item times to it. You don't have to calculate stuff, and you don't need to keep track of them in your head (game comes with timers, and this is a thing).

Now the question to you is: What do you consider to be the skills that the term "item control" refers to and which one of those, if any, are still present or made obsolete in, let's say, approach (d)?

Doing arithmetic in your head is definitely a skill that can be practiced and mastered to a very high level.

For instance, with the thousands of duel I have played it got to the point where I wasn't doing any actual mental arithmetic at all, I just knew what the respawn times were based on memory from number associations.

For example, when I time the red my internal processing goes something like this: see's time of pickup is 2:18, immediately jumps from 18 -> 42. It's a kind of number association, and I can do this for any time between 0 seconds and 60 seconds, it doesn't matter when an item gets picked up I immediately know the respawn time from my mental 'table' of number associations.

Whereas someone who isn't a dueler and trying to learn timing might be doing something like this: see's time of pickup 2:18, 18 + 20 = 38, 38 + 5 = 42.

There is extra steps involved. So, arithmetic used for timing makes the skill ceiling higher for the game. If someone goes to the trouble of mastering the actual act of timing items to the point that they have an advantage over someone else in the game then that shouldn't be taken away from them. Quake is all about mastery of the game and high skill ceiling.

If you level the playing field and give everyone the same automatically timed items, that is lowering the skill ceiling, which I don't like the idea of. When I want to watch a Quake duel I want to watch two masters at the top of their game pushing human experience, skill, intelligence and mastery to its limits.

What about a 1v1 mode for the rest of the people playing the game 4Head

What would you suggest as an alternative? You could probably access closed beta and give them feedback with your position in the community tbh.


Also GAME 7!!! Game 6 was nuts. LeBron was a monster :D

Timing is not a requirement tho. Cypher won everything while timing 1 item tops

Ya... no. I'm pretty sure he means timing in the general sense of being aware of when items respawn, not just arithmetic. Cypher may very well only only do the additions and subtractions (or at this point it's probably more like a hash table) for one item, I don't know. But he sure as hell still knows approximately when the other items will spawn too, by "feeling". It's still timing, it's just a more elusive form that can only be obtained with a shitload of experience.

i didnt have the feeling at all from his post. General item awerness is not a big task and it is what's cool about quake compared to CSlikes and OWlikes.

He may not be bold enough, but he certainly is bald enough.

There is even a alpha tester in my scrubby friendslist.

what is he always on about with his 120 hz? It leaves the impression that he doesnt know what hes talking about. In every interview its the same wording and he kind of stutters at that point.
It cant be the goal to always reach 120 fps since thats impossible and in the same sentence he mentions the oh so great unlocked fps. Only thing that comes to mind is the server tick rate or is there something else?

When Carmack was showing off id tech 5 and Rage he frequently referred to the engine running at 60hz and 60fps.

What he meant by 60hz was the engine internally updates every 60hz rather than the usual 30hz (id tech 3/4 were 30hz for example).

If QC really is running at 120hz, that'll be pretty amazing.

ah, i didnt know about that. thanks!

:o ini is still alive.

It's just the target frame rate. 120 fps on what will probably be the recommended hardware.

why wouldn't he say it then that its fps he's talking about? :S pretty misleading/confusing.

idk. It's true that we gamers are more used to think of FPS as the "feeding rate" and Hz as the "display refresh rate" but that's an artificial separation. You could say that a monitor can display 120 fps or that a game can produce frames at 120 Hz.
fps = frames/second
Hz = 1/second

Hertz is just a unit of frequency; both 120hz and 120 F.P.S. could mean the same thing if the subject were: game frame-rate. I think his comments are confusing, because the subject isn't defined. 120hz doesn't mean the game-engine outputs 120 F.P.S.. He mentions that the frame-rate won't be locked though, so perhaps the 120 hertz comment refers to the game-engine updating internally 120 times a second. (See ini's comment below.)

lol at "classic characters". the only classic quake characters are sarge and keel. maybe doom. even then people don't know their names, only their appearance.

o_O

wat

wtf noob

Pls.

Srsly? Ranger is OG dawg. smfh

First I want to see how this man plays Quake, the rest comes later.

Oh fuck. Time to upgrade. :<

"how you gunna get QL pros to switch to QC?"

lol

Willits is probably the brightest guy still in id thats taking decisions, SUPERB.

FUCK HER RIGHT IN THE PUSSY!

: )

Sounds fucking excellent.

Timing killed quake champions i guess : P

Who was the interviewer? Was it one of Rocketbeans dudes? Sounded a lot like k1llsen

killsens german accent is even worse :D

He sounds like every german guy I've ever known

I am almost ready to forgive him placing the red armor next to the mega health on DM6

HAHA

The original map was 2 yellow armors and a 50 health. You can't really be sure if he was involved in the pro version.

i hope champions will keep intuitive things like wallclipping and ledge grabing too, not just strafe jumping. there's nothing sillier and more frustrating than when you're moving a million miles an hour like a rocket only for a corner pixel to stop you in your tracks. it's stupid, like not being able to jump up stairs in qw. glad we've moved on from that. they should add more intuitive movement things if they want to improve. when you jump and duck your avatar's knees should fold up so you can jump over things you couldn't before. in ql when you jump and duck the avatar behaves as if you're ducking on the ground which is stupid. all other fps games feel like you're a camera on a stupid dolly with only two speeds: walking or sprinting. it feels unnatural rigid and it's not as fun to play as a dynamic game like ql where you can strafe jump, wallclip,a nd rocketjump. speeds are dynamic, it's not walking speed is 300 ups, sprinting 500 ups, dodging 420 ups. please don't make the game feel as stupid clunky stiff as ut4 -_- keep the dynamic feel of ql and make it even more dynamic! don't add silly animations that prevent me from shooting though. i could imagine a ledge grab animation... eww

"ledge grabing" like doom?
Omg no plz...

I think he means the "step up" feature or whatever its called (dunno if there even is a name for it) where if you are close to a ledge in height you will "step up" to it instead of falling down even if your bounding box is slightly below the ledge.

Quake 4 was missing this, which is why you could sometimes feel like you were supposed to "make that jump" but for some reason you fell down, especially when you are used to Q3.

I think it was SyncError bringing it to QL and he called it "air steps".

And it's the biggest breakthrough in Quake physics since Quake! And I always wanted it in QW :(

(CPM dealt with the problem of stopping on stairs by adding that stupid "gluing" thingy that feels unnatural even in Quake ;))

i'm so hypped

this quake champions could save my life

:D

can't wait to play ca on thunderstruck 24/7, huh?

still more fun than playing duel on bloodrun 24/7

The last question should be "who the hell made this fkn awesome music?"

Take my Money,...

https://youtu.be/llP143m6hXw?t=193
> "each hero showcased one of their active abilities"
> "one of their active abilities"

i like the idea of legacy ablities. ... dire orb for ranger, see thru for visor (even tho its only the name and metal plate on his face and not some quake lure like ranger, but it fits his outlook).
I bet tankjr will be some kind bastion ulti :D, i wonder what grunt and keel will offer, or maybe mynx will throw out here tits to confuse oponents (some nice tits jiggle would be awesome :)
orb will have autoaim :)

My point is more about the fact it sounds like each hero isn't going to have just 1 active ability, then there's the possibility of passives. All of a sudden the game is more like TF2/OW than a Quake title.

If anyone has autoaim, I'd expect it to be Xaero

xaero true! ... and anarki will ride walls :)

Anarki will do 720's and use his board as a melee weapon.

He will give new meaning to 360 noscope.

W I N
I
N

Q U A K E
U
A
K
E

Keel will be able to jump higher and dunk.
Or rap.

but can't swim

should give him a rasta look with prison shanks woven into his dread locks

Are there any hints when this game might be released? 2016/2017/2018/... ?

No dates. More info @ qcon

I am sure we will get to play beta in 1 year. so mid 2017 for sure for beta.

In the interview they said they've been working on it since before overwatch. so it could soony than you think, and with having the engine already inplace (doom 2016) and no single player. It could be quite soon.

I think full force development started around one year ago. For a game like this, I wouldn't be surprised if it was released by the end of next year.

120 on vulcan technology ... ow yeeea.

Doom confirmed as a character?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck_-cDqUoAAX3HD.jpg:large

lmao

Looks like a ninja turtle to me

pretty sure that's ranger

yea my bad i meant ranger

Judging by the helmet, it's Wrack.

In comparison:
Doom
Ranger
TMNT

they should make CTF the main game mode

-
Here's another update guys (I didn't want to start yet another thread)

Quake Champions Tim Willits interview
‘People are afraid of Quake, which is kind of awesome’

If it's already been posted elsewhere forgive me - but I don't see it.

There's a lot in it to please people I guess - and a lot still to worry about.. but Tim is still being quite vague at this stage of course..
He mentions 'Deathmatch' being included again - but still no word about 'Duel'

anyway read on - I won't spoil it :o)


http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/21/quake-champions...e-5958340/
-

So every champion will indeed have a different movement.

Probably yes and that's something I don't really like, or I am at least very skeptical about it. Each champion having different passive attributes like different movement, hp, armor, air control, strafing, rocket jumping, hitboxes, etc makes the game almost impossible to balance.

I could get used to one active ability for each class and even like it, but this seems like a questionable move by id. I would like every champion to behave the same under the good "restrictions" of the classic quake arena style gameplay.

Then each player having different movement would be basically hero/OW/moba style, but tim willits keeps spamming "it's not a moba" and the QC alpha testers who are apparently hardcore QL players say it's good gameplay... :/ it's all very confusing.

Imagine Quake Live with each avatar-model having different passive and active abilities, add in an automatic item-timer, probably bad map designs, and I think you've reached a fairly accurate idea of what Quake Champions will be like.

Imagine dueling on ZTN: you're waiting for MH to spawn. You know it will spawn in .5 seconds time, because the in-game item-timer tells you so, but your opponent uses his warp ability at the last millisecond to make a steal. He warps in and warps out. The crowd goes wild! "That steal was amazing Zoot!" You try to use your wallhacks to see where he's warping to next. Ah ha! He's going for the RA now. Your super special ability is ready now. You equip the LG, and as your opponent warps over to the RA you press the "S" key on your keyboard--"S" for "Super Special Spell"--and the crowd goes wild! "Ins, this kid hits harder than toxjq in Quake 3!" "He sure does Zoot, but how will he go against Ghostman? This player's aim-bot ability doesn't work against Ghostman, because Ghostman is invisible!" "What do our spectators think? Will Aimbotman beat Ghostman as easily as he was able to beat Warpman? Don't forget to gamble with your parent's money on the match's outcome kids! We need your money..."

Side-note: the article said they had PC Quake Live fans come into a lab to play-test Quake Champions. Some PC Quake Live fans exclusively play PQL CA. Some PC Quake Live fans have never left Tier 2, and spam GL constantly. Some PC Quake Live fans hate items. I'm just trying to say: PC Quake Live fans =/= people who could make a good competitive Quake game. Also, just because they're a fan doesn't mean they actually like Quake Live. I know of many "Quake fans" who actually hate the Quake gameplay. They're just "fans" because: "oh, it's so hardcore and cool--everyone's a Quake fan!" They don't actually play the game--they'd rather play CoD or something--it's just trendy, or gives them Gamer-Cred to "like" Quake.

I guess it's gonna depend on your definition of MOBA. If for you a MOBA is an action-RTS like LOL/DOTA then it's gonna be different from if you also think TFC/TF2/NTF/Overwatch are MOBA.

interesting

TW: [laughs] So there are millions of people that love playing Quake Live.

i must be playing the wrong game...

ANBILIVABOL this was actually cool

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/21/quake-champions...e-5958340/

Yeah, so you pick up all your weapons, we’ve got the holy trinity. You’ve got timer items; we have timers that help, but you have to get the armour and find your ammo…

wut

like a floating number over the megahealth spawn telling you how soon it spawns? that's idiotic. I sure hope it won't be that casual.

Would a signed integer above the mh spawn be better?

no, only long long

you are supposed to time them in your head

so where's the shitstorm about item timers?

there is none, this game has quake in the name, its already perfect

smaller titles with less resources than these guys at bethesda/ID were highly criticized for these kind of decisions, yet people sucking the game's dick when it isn't even out.

this is why I never take serious all the fanbois who come and feel entitled to say whatever crazy shit but when it's inside their game it's ok.

seriously this is turning into gaming politics so much that I have stopped caring

I know, i was ironic

ye ye i got you no worries, justifying your post

1) Once a precedent has been set it's not quite as shocking the second time round.
2) People felt the developers of Reflex listened to the community.
3) People feel id Software actively ignores the community.
4) There's nothing we can do? We're along for the ride. :)

I'm sure we'll be able to disable it server-side if we wanted to... maybe... perhaps... hopefully...

was discussed in this thread already and was beaten to death when the loadouts update came along

everyones used to them from ql now.

needs quake symbol tattoo

Let's hope they don't use the same vet/pro's opinions, like last time in Quake Live.

All went to shit, and it died out. GG LG nerf no xerp and cripple, shitty spawnsystem and faster rockets to make it lockdown wank lowsens faggottry game.

this and making q3 owner pay again for OLD "premium" maps in a supposed "free to play" game....

2 years ql costs more than unlimited q3 fun

did i mention cpma is still far ahead compared to ql? and ofc cpma is free

Yeah was a brilliant idea to remove voting on standard servers, so new players had no chance to play the real/good maps in duel and such :D

Bye bye community. What the fuck was that about.

They had the recipe from Q3 but kept making QL worse and worse. If they combined the two worlds Q3 engine, QL platform it would have been the perfect game and still live on LAN tournaments.

Now we have to deal with class based shit..

Error: You have already judged this post

shitty spawnsystem

God i hate the spawn system in ql, it is the worst spawn system i have ever seen, you " force " the spawn, you actually choose where the other player is gonna spawn, all you got to do is to get in the right position in the map et voilà.

why not random spawns ? they are random, it is gonna be either in your favor or against you, you can be low on health and the dude just spawns behind you and BAM ! you died, the spawn turned the game around and you are both kinda equal now, but at the same time, he can spawn behind you and you just spawn kill him, oh look, it is in your favor now.

but what if he spawns far ? oh great, you wont get a spawn frag and you need it for a comeback, or oh thank god he spawn too far from me, ill just get some health and hide, and if it is you spawning far it is gonna be either good to get stacked again or bad cause the enemy got low hp and now he probably took some health.

Long story short, did it ever happen in a Duel in ql where a player got a frag while standing on a spawn pad and he just got fragged cause the enemy spawned on that exact spawn pad ? there, you got your answer :)

i love tim willits.
QC gonna be a sick game.

is this game out yet? hurdur, they took our jobs.

Dr.TK.UR.JZZZZzzz