first.
great read, it sounds more and more promising the more info we get :)

agreed - really excellent content in this interview!

First too, sounds good indeed. Hopefully they show gameplay in August.

first two*

it's called "second" my friend :)

GC: [laughs] But the area where I could agree with them is with the loadouts, which really didn’t seem to fit the old school style.

TW: There are no loadouts in Quake.

GC: So you pick up the weapon in the map, you know where it’s going to spawn…

TW: Yeah, so you pick up all your weapons, we’ve got the holy trinity. You’ve got timer items; we have timers that help, but you have to get the armour and find your ammo…

Just be glad there isn't any fucking loadouts people.

http://coub.com/view/2xxh7

Is it a MOBA?

So Quake Live has been going for 16 years and been free to play since 2008. Eeeeh.

There are millions of people that love playing Quake Live too!

Missed that one :D

quake live is not bad only that it never really brought anything new to the quake 3 game except a new client to play through essentially the same thing. i am watching quakeworld games atm and it looks way better for some reason than quake live. its not always graphics but just that gimmicky feel of quake live that makes it irrelevant.

for people like me who didn't really play quake 3 online, quakelive offered an easy platform to quickly connect to servers with other players and play.
I remember trying to play quake 3 arena online and servers running different versions of the game/patches, mods, etc. and basically it was a nightmare to even be able to join a fucking server. You'd have to look online and download the right patch, the right add-on, the right anti-cheat and what not. Every time I tried, I pretty much gave up. Quakelive was a fix to that issue for players from other games.

it might be somewhat easier but it still never fundamentally improved on the base game in any way, you could still play quake 3 vanilla or cpma before. i still watch quakeworld and quake 2 over third party clients and that is identical to quake live basically, it was touted as some kind of improvement while it never delivered anything of genuine value.

As someone from another game, you have to know where to get CPMA (if you even know what CPMA is), what version of quake 3 arena you need for it and all of that. It's not exactly very well advertised on the web, you need some proper digging. That's already massively limiting the number of players, you're talking about just the few of us reading esreality basically.
I tried to install quake 3 arena and CPMA and then was struggling to find servers with players on it.

yeah but then it still isn't relevant because people who never played quake before would rather play games like tf2 or overwatch where its not as difficult to play against veteran players with years of experience, something like quake live only tries to add some polish to old gameplay and that wouldn't really work very well without changes to gameplay or better graphics and even then there isn't much hope since its all been done by the games i mentioned above.

I tend to disagree. if you look at the player base from quakelive it's still many more players than what quake 3 currently had when quakelive came out. A lot of new players joined the game, like myself, my brother, my mates from other games. I got into quake 4 when it came out but quakelive was my chance of enjoying quake 3 arena remade as I missed on the core quake 3 arena era. Of course the game wouldn't reach the same audiences as TF2 or overwatch as it's not as advertised, but still.

yes but it still basically quake 3, i have played it since 2001 and quickly got bored with quake live and moved on to other games, its still not good enough to me compared to newer titles, i can play it but fun is not there anymore. i am not hoping new qc to be any better based on that that id never really evolved since, they were good up to quake 3 and then they lost it as far as replayable gameplay goes.

you are comparing 10-20 old team to the new team that made doom4 SP experiance. .... judging by that, i would say they could nail it. :)

what newer titles are more fun than quake 3 / quake live?

I only enjoyed Dirty Bomb and it's not going anywhere and I'm now really bored of it.
CoD, Battlefield and CS games are not for me.

It doesn't leave you with much in terms of good FPS. Yeah Warsow, Reflex etc. are good but the number of players is so low that you end up playing the same people over and over, and that's if you even find a server to play on...

as i said tf2 and overwatch are perfectly good enough games as a better alternative to quake live, and if you are looking at hardcore games there are quakeworld and other games, i have played q3 for a very long time, but i no longer think its some kind of perfect game, it was up to about 2005 one of the big games, but now there are plenty alternatives. the biggest negative factor against q3 is that it looks very dated and gameplay feels very gimmicky with strafejumping etc, and the fun is very subjective thing in games, i dont think its that fun to jump around in a map, games like cs at least require some planning of map positioning for an average player, whereas q3 creates a huge advantage for people with strafejumping skills over others.

are you trolling or what ? :D

how can you be bored of quake ?

how can you find strafe-jumping kind of lame ?

infidel (c) cooller

it feels boring since games like hl2 came out, why strafe when gfx basically looks like boxes,

lucky you will have new gfx with QC :)

I didn't know much about TF2 and what I had seen didn't really appeal to me, but after reading your post I checked some high level play on twitch and I've now installed the game to give it a try :)

However OverWatch IMO lost what an FPS was about. For me an FPS has a lot to do with aiming and movement, and OverWatch doesn't really fill those. It's about how you are using your abilities, a bit like an MMORPG in a way (think World of Warcraft).

Mastering the movement in quake was part of a learning curve which made the game interesting, it had another dimension to it compared to games like CS. Yes the noobs might struggle with strafe jumping at first, but if they're matched against opponents of their skills then this shouldn't be an issue.

For me it is important to have a game where there is a huge skill gap between newbies and people who master the game.
CounterStrike is very tactical and also aim based (in an awkward way with recoil etc.) but it's quite easy to kill people on it and I often hop onto it with people who play it regularly and do pretty much just as good. The difference is that they know how to play the maps tactically and know all kinds of smoke grenades and flashes, but essentially the shooting is really pretty simple (again apart from the awkward recoil on some weapons).

I don't associate fun with graphics personally. But luckily Quake Champions will solve that issue of graphics for you.

I find it hard to believe that you find strafejumping "gimmicky", but on the other hand that you find Overwatch and all its abilities completely fine.

Personally I like when I have to learn something, when it's hard to master, and when my improvement shows and getting better is rewarded.

Dude I used my ult at the right time 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head 4Head

twitch.tv is that way

4 H E A D
H
E
A
D

You are a fucking idiot and it is nothing personal.

Quake is more complex than the games u re mentioning and they re only more popular bcause majority do not want more challenge. They want to be average at their average game because they can not and do not want to handle the pressure nor are capable or willing to develope some skill.

That is exactly why most people do not do any sports or they go to the gym which requires no skill- becaus they are affraid to be challenged and compared in a real time rivalry.

People are worthless pussies in general and that is why the devs have to nerf the games to not scare them away. In an easy team play everybody wins. People like to win without any effort.

...and then there are people who don't really care about getting good at games because there are better things to do with their time.

Attitude is not something u turn on and off. U re either a wolf or a sheep and this is in the club in the bedroom at the office and life in general.

And in general people are the sheep with no ambition. They want more but do not want to fight for it.

Just check the commercials and try to figure their target. Why the commercials are so dumb? Because the target is dumb. Why the games are getting easy? Cos the ppl want the reward fast. They want the frags or just buy their weapons for the money and own the rest with ease.

And in quake? Fuck in quake u have to literally study each map. Study the movement on each map. Analize different paths and whats most important u re on ur own in a dueal. No team mate to blame and fucking long 10mins of stress and possible painful Punishment. Some ppl like to have something no one else can have like the skill developed over the years. Also they want to be a part of something ambitious.

There will allways be much bigger Beyoncé audience but is the music good?

i don't really think that games in general could be counted as something special that i can't live without, it doesn't matter if its good or not or whether i am too weak to play them. i don't even play tf2 or ow or any of those fancy fad games like dota and could predict that i could stop playing them altogether in the near future.

perhaps it's my mistake talking about games here since i don't really count myself as a "gamer" anymore.

I dont either but please do not say that ow or whatever are superior in any way while beeing much less complex.

Its like saying checkers are better game because they require less skill and people can focus more on positioning them nicely on the board.

i say this because i don't like the general direction where id games are going, i want to play games with people and not quake pros on pro servers with 19 people playing worldwide. i have been waiting for ages for id to make a good casual quake that they promised with quake live, and what did we get? a focus group of 100 pro players telling the whole quake community what the game should be. its not fun at all to wait for another doom 3 multiplayer or rage multiplayer or quake 4 multiplayer that has no players a year after release, what's the point of the game release that has no players. i believe both points are valid that games like ow in many ways are superior to all quake games is that at least these games have a bigger community where players contribute to the game with custom content like tf2 and if id decides to make another pro player walled garden than it should be advertised as such so no one keeps waiting for them to be disappointed once again.

Havent played for quite a while but when i did i was just hoping up on a server set to ztn wait for sb to join and play duel after duel occasionally joining some ca servers to check how the pussy part of the community is doing and seriously i got no fucking idea what the actual fuck u re talking about

Please tell me if you could decide what would you change?

The point is not with all the content bullshit but with the game itself. The quake is hard, unforgiving and frustrating and ppl prefer to play some unicorn soccer instead. I accept it but dont blame id as there is literally nothing they could do. They even put all the cvars to the fucking shiny menu lol

Go try make tft kidos play chess. Impossible

why would a skilled quake player care if qc gets released when he is just going to r_picmip 5 the whole game, there is literally already 4 quake games where players just go to settings and squish the whole game into minecraft graphics, why would you need yet another game for that? if you decide to make the new game, make it for everyone who doesn't use r_picmip 5 because that makes no sense at all to make a game on a new engine for it to look like quake 1 with no textures cause thats how these so called pro players are going to play.

Lets assume we are both playing chess and i bring my own set of pieces which are picmiped. Now u re gonna think im cheating while it does not matter as the core of the game is not about the pawns color.

Who forces u to picmip? Play without it. There are tons of good players who never used it. Do u think that if i own u with picmip im not going to do so without it?

Now its obvious u were just very bad at the game.

Why new quake? To keep the legend alive. To show there is still the room for ambitious games for inteligent people that wont get satisfied playing something that has no skill involved and to lure new geberation of quakers.

I also trully believe there is a way of keeping quake hardcore and allowing kids to have their fun. Its just no one pays me to think about it.

Out of pure curiosity, did you use to play QL under the name 7herm?

Yeah 7herm therm whatever

That's cool, I used to duel a lot with you, back when QL was still in beta, and I was like 15 years old. I even talked you into getting a CRT from what I can remember.

Good times ; )

you see that's why i think this community is full of backward logics, so lets asume that both of us have 250 ping etc... ofc a person with 250 will have no advantage over a noob with 25 ping, we could go on and on how you think that playing quake has any advantage in real life but it doesn't it's just a waste of time. r_picmip 5 is a solid argument why quake is backward, if what you say was true than we all should just play quake 1, hey no one cares if the game looks like boxes we all agree riight... no. and quake isnt chess, its a game playd by around 100 people at any given time, so your argument that we are playing chess is ridiculous because quake is more like a competition of who eats the most hamburers in a minute, seriously. what's so competitive about owning noobs with a crt + r_picmip 5 + 1000hz mice etc.

Where did i say playing quake has any advantage in real life? I just said game preferences are the reflection of ppl attitude just like the clothes or whatever.

You are persiting that quake is about aim while it is not. Its the positioning, the timing, map knowledge and predictions. Aim is just for the final execution of said chain of tactics resulting in a frag.

No quaker needs crt oc mice and picmip to own the noobs plus i dont know any that actually enjoyed it. Do u think mike Tyson would enjoy owning people on the street? Thats no challenge

I see that u got owned hard and blamed it on everything but the skill. You dont understand the game because its obviously too complex for you and i dont know why are u posting here seriously. U dont like quake u dont understand it so move on go play something easier with pimp graphics

i aint going to argue with you over the same thing at this point, an lg battle with someone with a 120hz crt and 1000hz mouse vs same skilled player with a cheap 125hz mouse and 60hz lcd with ghosting isn't going to change no matter what you are trying to argue here and strafing etc is just as dependent on good framerates, mouse and crt. quake 1 i agree could be counted as somewhat competitive game because its players are mostly on same skill level, do the same tricks etc, but in quake live its basically cvar tweakers vs an average noob coming from bf4. your argument is that quake is somehow equal to boxing, a pretty transparent sport where spectators see the skill of player vs quake is basically a shady game where players often use aimbots, hardware etc to take advantage of other players and call themselves skilled based on hardware/software advantage and not player skill.

U forgot to mention showgun 0 as an unfair advantage.

And what do u think about the screen size? Some people play on larger screens and different resolutions!

Also some have air condition in their rooms while others dont. I am sure this affects their game also.



Anyways please tell me why do u want to win so much? Maybe u r loosing somewhere and need to recompensate? I was playing ql on crt, 17laptop, 15 laptop and even 13. All of the last 3 hardly reached 100fps and so what? At the moment im working on 12 lenovo cos im flying almost weekly and maybe i will start to play again from a hotel. Maybe with the picmip or maybe not. Sometimes from marriott and sometimes from the sheraton. Why would i care of i loose or not?



Seriously how does it matter if u loose? Cant u just enjoy playing?

i have no problem actually, i still know that quake is a game played by 100 people who somehow become clueless why no one wants to play it.

again i don't care if quake succeeds or not, i am simply pointing out obvious holes in logic of many quake players that the game somehow needs promotion in order to be next call of duty,

it's never going to be the next call of duty exactly because most quake players support the kind of logic that you demonstrate that anything goes in a competition against another player,

even f1 racing have strict laws where each part of a car needs to be a certain size, weight etc or else it can't be a fair demonstration of human skill in a competition.

I do not know what players are u talking about but now u re talking with me and i told u right away that i fully understand why quake will never succeed and i fully agree no promotion will ever make it popular. The game is just too hard and challenging

you two managed to argue while agreeing and killed a game we've seen only a cinematic demo of.

G G
G

qw strafejumping + qw gun balance might save it but realistically that will never happen. qw to me still is the perfect quake, runs almost on any pc and has superioir speed, gun balance, gameplay etc. too bad there is too few people playing it. q3 strafing feels like a slug when i watch people playing it. i think the problem here is that quake live took a stance of all recent games is that its neither hardcore nor casual instead taking ideas from other popular game like halo and not coming up with any new ideas or unique id games charm of the ninenties. i can sortof play games like tf2 knowing its not too hard to win even if i don't try, but in quake live people also seem to use all these things like 120hz monitors and 1000hz mice which involves no skill and i would never even consider buying these things just to play quake.

but in quake live people also seem to use all these things like 120hz monitors and 1000hz mice which involves no skill and i would never even consider buying these things just to play quake.

lol, that's like complaining that your opponent in badminton bought a high end racket and not something from the local market with old cat guts for strings, and then thinking that's unfair.

Good equipment does not make anyone better, but it gives them the best opportunities to evolve their game and not be hindered by faulty shit like and old mouse that skips every two frames.

That's not your opponents fault. And you wanting to win games with shit equipment and "not even trying", that doesn't mean QL or Q3 didn't require skill or that the good players in those games cheated (or equipped, lol) their way to the top.

you again make the same mistake assuming quake is a sport to begin with, any sport depends on demonstration human skills first and equipment is secondary to success whereas quake depends on hardware for the player to translate his movements accurately into the game, its kinda like competing with a ford car in f1 race, which in reality would never happen as people see no point in such a thing. that's why there are thing like antidoping agency in sports, to demonstrate a level playing field for all competitiors, there is no such thing in games, especially in quake games.

So should we all use ball mice?

no, my point was that in any legible sport equipment plays only a secondary role in the success of a competitor and if you make a success in activity depend on equipment alone its no longer a sport or a legitimate competition between players, thus i see no reason to call quake a sport and see no point in investing any amount of money into it.

if you make a success in activity depend on equipment alone its no longer a sport or a legitimate competition between players, thus i see no reason to call quake a sport

I don't know where you got the weird idea that success in Quake depends on equipment alone, but it's wrong. It is a secondary thing, just like a great swimming suit is secondary but nonetheless important in high-end competition. In fact it's probably much more important in swimming than in Quake, so much that some technology was outright banned for the Olympics. I'm pretty sure it's still a sport though.

Um. So to level the playing field, we should all use shit equipment because you can't be bothered to invest in high end (or even just mid tier) gear? That's never gonna work in anything, ever. Not sport, not computer games, not fishing. Come on.

it's more about entertainment value for me, i don't really find games that interesting to save up for a new pc etc. i am quite satisfied with whatever can be played on lowend graphics and in case of quake gameplay seems kinda outdated to consider it playing day to day, i can spec sometimes for two weeks but then i realize there are tons of other games that are far easier on me and don't require to do much.

So... you agree that it's just you not wanting to invest neither money nor time into games, and it's not the game or the "need" for good equipment that's wrong.

He also mentioned Quake III morphed into Quake Live.

Must be hard to draw the conclusion based on that?

Here's the conversation:

GC: Were you looking at the industry and thinking these things are becoming more accepted again and so maybe Quake will have an even bigger audience than normal, or was this just parallel evolution?
TW: I think it was parallel evolution. So, Quake Live… Quake Live, which morphed from Quake III, ran for 16 years.

Learn to read before you try to troll.

Not for me, but perhaps for the average Metro reader not as familiar with the franchise.

why pay so much attention to details? what he's trying to say is the game itself is 16 years old and still being played today, referring to quake3 / quakelive being the same game (or very close anyway) as we all know.

TW: [laughs] So there are millions of people that love playing Quake Live.

Do they count every account every created on their site or something ? Even than 1mill is a big number for the game. Or am i wrong ?

Its like that: millions of players DO have it, but not many of them even launched QL once.

Its because QL was in many-many packs, so you would get it if you'd buy.

And mainly because (somebody enlightened me here) that many of these millions are just the people who installed the free client even once.

what he said could be true though, even if the vast majority of ppl that have it aren't hardcore

I have never heard anyone that has play it, little or a lot, to say anything else than that he/she loves it. So, it's not so far fetched.

it sucks, u heard it here first then. only played it cause it had a bigger community. to exaggerate a little, it's like the world of tanks of arena fps. or rather it's one of the various world of tank titles. nice(r) to watch but totally awkward if one knows and prefers games on the need for speed/trackmania edge of fps.

I introduced quite a few players to quake who hated it because they found it way too difficult (basically getting owned real hard without being able to quickly get a grip of the movement and weapons).
I guess you're just lucky then :D

GC: So how is it going to work… I quite liked Doom’s multiplayer…

TW: Doom’s multiplayer is awesome!

GC: I’m not sure how it got such a bad reputation.

TW: [whispers] People are wrong.

He can't really say bad things about it.

the memery of this guy

He's trying to sell their upcoming quake game but you would want him to say that they fucked up with doom multiplayer but that this time around it will be ok with quake? how would that sound any good lol

Each champion will have different passive abilities. So different movement, hp, damage, strafing, air control etc?. This doesn't sound so good...

More like 1 or 2 of them. It needs balancing and careful approach, but it can be done and implemented into quake style gameplay.

Loadout wasnt the big problem here

Reading this gave me goosebumps.

GC: So that’s exactly the crowd you’re aiming for by the sound of it.
TW: Oh god, yes. I’d be dead otherwise. Can you imagine making a Quake game where the Quake pros didn’t like it? [laughs]

TW: When Quake first came out it was pretty intimidating. People are afraid of Quake, which is kind of awesome. [laughs] But you also have to remember that gamers are so much better now. Some of these multiplayer games are so advanced that I’m not too worried about that. And the champions actually do help.
Because in our testing we have found that people that are not as super-talented with Quake had success. The best guys will still win but the champions have really helped to bring people in. We’ll have better matchmaking, we’ll have good league systems and the tournaments. It’ll be more accepting.


Everything I read was good, maybe except for the passive ability thing and the fact that some champions may not be able to rocket jump or strafe jump...

I dont mind the passive thing. Quake right now is nice because it gives you a base platform and lets peoples styles come through so people play the same base stats completely differently.

But this could make for a starcraft or fighting game type scenario where people have their own styles within each champion/class. Just like there are different types of zerg players, QC could have different types of Ranger players for example.

Sounds pretty interesting to me. I hope it works out like I'm thinking

After an immediate negative reaction, I start to think you're right, and it's potentially a very interesting area to expand the game. If you think of it, TDM is already a mode in which you have different roles and different resource distributions. A team will try to assign their best suiting player to the appropriate role, and in game they'll distribute weapons and items in game to make roles effective. Having abilities seems to fit, as long as they are designed decently.

Also, I feel heroes are mostly helpful for the esport side of it, because you have to pick them, because they tend to have one powerful ability with some tangible effect etc. It gives caster something to talk about, and even if it's made up shit that barely matters to actual core of the game, is still what entertains the mass of followers (at least in real sports).

+let's not forget that if they really put effort into the game = balancing/developing will continue even after the initial release. So abilities can be tweaked for more fair play.

Where does it say that some characters can't strafe jump or rocket jump? I thought I read that all characters can do that it's just some can rocket jump higher or some can move faster.

And we know that people play first person shooters differently. Some people love the strafe jump, some people don’t rocket jump, some people don’t use air control, and some people are more aggressive or defensive.

So you could pick a character that has some passive abilities, maybe one that’s a little faster, say, that fit with your play style.

This implies that either some will be slower than others while preserving the same movement abilities (but from his wording that's rather unlikely), or there will be a completely different movement for each champion to satisify the needs of every person.

> What Herezja said.

Right now it's unclear I'd say. But I certainly do hope every character has strafejump as a basic movement atleast. I don't like air control but I love crouchsliding for example. So I wouldn't mind having a champion who can strafejump and crouchslide as a passive ability. Some other would have strafejump and air control as a passive ability. That'd work for me tbh.

Give Anarki zero friction and speed retention!

no! that is hunter.

hah, no i dont care, wtf lol rite!;:)

Nah, I don't think they will remove some of those as they are key role for quake mechanic. What they can do is boost them for some champions.

TIMMY THATS NICE #QUAKEPRIME H Y P E

Mm the more I think about different abilities for each champion, the more I'm liking the idea. Some abilities could be..
Crouch slide
Double jump
Enhanced zoom/sniper
Air control

Each champion should have standard vanilla quake ability equal, and their special ability on top of that.

FAST RAIL FOR XAERO !

</3

IS THE PACO A PLAYABLE CHEMPION?

DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!
YOU GOTTA RESPECT THE PACO!
RESPECT THE PACO-OOOOoooooOOOOOOOOOO YEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeEEEEE!

relax

Actually this was said in ztn3tourney1 when elpajuo played very bad game and was obviously nervous as hell. Cooller had established a friendship with elpa so this was friendly thing to say. (from dm6 cooller can be quoted with YOU ROX)

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=731732#pid732226

all good

item timers must be a passive ability and please, don't reward only the aim whores, or the movement whores, but also the players that like the strategic part of the game.

like,
have something for the aimers
something for ppl that love to move fast,
for ppl that like to use a specific weapon,
for dodgers, for cockroaches,
but also,
for the timers and the chess like players (like rapha, cooller, agent).

don't just make it easier for the aimers. give a champion to look to everybody.

"You’ve got timer items; we have timers that help, but you have to get the armour and find your ammo…"

Nooooooo :(

Put yourself in their shoes and tell me you would not do it. After all, timing item is not an appealing mechanic. It's something a tiny minority of super competitive and dedicated players (aka people playing duel) will learn because they want every possible advantage, but for a large audience, that's just not a fun thing to ask them to learn.

Is it a fun thing to ask new players to learn strafejumping? Is it a fun thing to learn to play duel when you get beaten 40-0 by low-mid level players?

I think timing items is probably the most easy thing to learn out of the three. Also it promotes different styles. If everyone has an item timer, people who are good at timing won't stick out anymore.
Item timers take away a skill from the game, which I think is always a bad thing, even if timing items might not be the most impressive skill.

I also wonder if we will also know the timing of an item that we don't pick.

If that is the case, it wouldn't make sense to delay an item to surprise an opponent, and also "leaving an item up to go attack" would get noticed by your opponent as he doesn't see the item timer reset, and hence would expect your attack.

I hope that if item timers there are, it's only for the items you pick up.

[+]
I don't see the point, people whining about timing items.. noone force you to time them. It's not game changer. As MM above mentioned, it's just "It's something a tiny minority of super competitive and dedicated players". It's 0.01% of all players time items.. what's the fucking problem about that, I don't get it.
if you add timer, it's already a game changer.. if you remove seconds in timer and leave just minutes, it won't affect alot,but reduce skill level for a game. dumbed down quake..

If it's such a nuance, why then add item timers if only "0.01%" of players care to time items?

Don't you see that adding item timers will just create campers that wait for the clock to show up a new MH or RA or whatever?

You sound pretty low IQ tbh.

You know, there's no rule saying QC's item timers should work the same way as in Reflex or QL.

I am sure my iq is higher then yours.
Read above. I wrote removing seconds is not game changer. Its adds some spice, some skill, different game styles. Everyone is talking, how quake is about different styles, so why dumb down?

Strafe jumping is much more important than item timing. And it's much more fun. In fact I think it's the most defining and fun mechanic of the game, while item timing is one of the most boring ones. It exists because at some level it's really making the difference, but it's a chore at best. You can make a quake without item timing (that's quake for most of quakers) while you cannot without strafe jumping.

We get it, you suck at timing items.

The most rewarding and fun experience to have is to play a even duel with a player and try to play with his mind into setting up traps, like delaying items, and making him confused and so on.

All of this deep dynamic of gameplay, specially in duel, is killed by having a fucking item counter that tells you when items will spawn. You don't need to pay attention to sound, you don't need to focus into anything, just jump around and shoot. Big fucking woop.

Also you are delusional if you think casuals will learn how to strafejump.

lol at the provoking attempts... Anyway to stick in topic, this is a breakdown of the timing process:

1. Put yourself in the position to gather the info (sound/visual range)
2. Observe the current time.
3. Add to that the item respawn.
4. Remember the time of items you are currently timing.
5. Incorporate that knowledge into your strategy.

Now, I imagine item timers that remove the need for 2-4 while keeping it for 1 and 5 (like the timers in worlfcam). You say this kills the game you love? Well let me turn it around for you:

You can still do your traps, you can still think what the opponent will do, etc. But instead of doing that with a minority of players who took the time and effort to become proficient at 2-4, you will now do it against more players.

Is this making the game easier? Ofc it is. Is it breaking it or going against its fundamentals? I don't think so. It might actually allow more people to enjoy the fun of dueling, which is trying to enter the head of the opponent.

And about being delusional about ppl learning strafe jumping: strafe jumping is going to be in the game, so it's pointless to debate about it. It's in, and depending on how successful the game will be, you will or will not have new players learning it.

I've thought about a system where you have cycling timers on your hud that you can reactivate with a button press (one does 25 sec cycles, other does 35 sec cycles) and every time you press it it restarts the cycle. So for armors, since they are 25 sec each anyways, you can just remember the order of them, with mega you know the exact time. This system would also mean that if you are not there for the item and enemy delays it then your timer is off. You could also make it automate the cycle restart if you are the one picking up the item or maybe even when you're in the hearing radius.

I don't like the extra button presses necessary about this idea, but maybe it wont be too bad as you don't need to do it too often.

With a bit of thoughts to solve the extra button, it would work. It could even become an active ability for a champion, or something. I think in general, these options are put on the table and weighted by complexity, how helpful they are etc. So it's hard to predict what they will do. But my point is, I think it's possible to do it right.

Could be just one bind and it runs a certain icon timer depending on your current position.
So, you hear someone pickup the red and you are obv in vicinity and run the "red" timer.
This is flawed in how maps are designed and how would it run on under RA tele on aero etc but still could be reduced to one bind.

I wonder how would designated timers on your hud work for main items. So if you're in the hearing radius of red or mega the timer resets it automatically for those items. The thing is I'm wondering about is that people would just start timing the next items that are not covered with timers. So the key items to time will be 50s or something.

I've lost count how many times players have taken or lost control because of one of them manipulating the respawn on items. Delaying or not and by how much is part of the strategy in my opinion. To watch rapha or someone slowly work their way into the cycle of items and after a few minutes has complete control is a thing of beauty.

So, perhaps I'm missing something here. But tell me how this aspect of the game can be retained with the addition of timers.

Well to do that they timed, right?

Now if you have timers you can produce similar results more often? If you know how to get into the item rotation.

Also in a position where both know the item time more often a missheard pickup is much more confusing then delaying the item since the person that died can:
1. Time it from the frag and be there before the next spawn
2. Consider that the person wouldn't delay the item more then 15 seconds and be there around the new inferred time.

I've seen more mistimes when they fight and someone is on the armor but the pickup is not clearly visible so it WAS on time but the other guy thinks it is delayed.

Mistiming is part of the game too, yes. But it appears something is being lost in translation. If both players know the respawn of an item, there's no point in delaying, there's no consequence of mistiming.

You can delay even if both players know if you want to avoid respawn time clashes.

The timer could only appear if you witnessed the pickup. Delaying would still be a viable strategy. You would however lose the possibility of a mistiming in such cases but I think it's a reasonable sacrifice.

Considering there's more people who surf, bhop, and play climb maps in CS than the entire remaining population of Quake players I don't think it's out of the question for non-Quake players to have fun with a fun mechanic, that is unless the target demographic you're thinking of is "general idiots, CoD players, and people who play mobile games" instead of "people who are open to playing a good FPS"

I don't get all the huff and puff around timers ...
Casual comes to play:
Introduciton levels with bots set him up with RJ, crouch slide, strafe, double jumps and movement.
He enters the arena and has timers plays casually and gains some ranks, then he starts playing harder opponents and gains aim practice, right?
Then he gets into weekly cups but suddenly it's hud_timers 0 and hud_radar "fu". He gets pissed and doesn't paly it , but plays casual games with other casual player, they are happy.
But he knows to play with anyone above his skill level he needs to time and now he knows movement and aim and map layouts. He will learn to time, it's just another skill set and it's not that important. He then does just that. All of us did it, without the crutches, new day, new poeple need those exactly because of us.

Imagine someone new to quake runs into Makie :) \q

This way they would at least get to enjoy the game and maybe have a choice to get better, move up and compete.

But he knows to play with anyone above his skill level he needs to time and now he knows movement and aim and map layouts. He will learn to time, it's just another skill set and it's not that important. He then does just that. All of us did it, without the crutches, new day, new poeple need those exactly because of us.

I was under the impression that a large majority of people instead chose to not time and play gametypes where it doesn't matter.

I was under the impression we were talking about people that are influenced by timers in gamemodes that will have them :)

Also isn't CA the complete opposite way of fixing the "timing items" problem? As you say them playing mdoes where it doesn't matter actually fixes the problem, but maybe it could be benefitial to have a way to keep them interested in other game modes?

Stop coping. Game will be shit and a casual shitfest. Item timing is an art. Imagine this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpaT5cbCIZM

but without the pressure of having to mentally time items...

It's fucking over before it started. They will keep making those compromises to try to appeal to the masses and fail at it. Reflex gameplay is garbage thanks to people knowing when shit exactly spawns all the time, but at least you have the excuse of Reflex being really fast due air control and shit.

Now in VQ3, item timing is a fundamental part of the game. If people know when shit spawns... it's just vomitive. Stop looking for excuses, this is already a downgrade from what we already have.

I get you are trolling so ...
you really seem sad because they could took away your noob bashing ability, and only edge you'd get over new players :). Don't worry it's champions, you'll get another one!

On a more serious note:
There is nothing as pure as the game you want to play, QC is not that, why bother with explaining why it ain't? Timers are okay, and they are really helpful for newer players, they alone willa ctually teach them:
1. You can camp once then you'll get owned beacuse it's QUAKE!
2. You need to anticipate those items if you want to be there on time!
3. Real games should/will not have timers!

Lastly even if competitive matches have radar/timers/battlesuit for 10 seconds etc. If you get good quake feel games it will be okay and fun to watch/compete in!

Item timers are absolute garbage. I'm reminded of that eveytime I join a FFA server that has them. Its complete shit and there's no way to justify it

item timers as themselves are what ever you want them to be. But that is completely unimportant.
Let's say, you and I go to a discord pickup channel and add to a game. Would you think a pickup game would have timers enabled?
All they said they want to cater to the oldschool players so I guess there won't be item timers fixed but controlled as a setting.

Now LOLatRoflexTimers goes to a random FFA / TDm pub hero match with new players and everybody knows item times ... That is superb. He knows about timing, but it doesn't give him and edge over anyone else.

FFA already is casual as fuck and is the one place where timers make a semblance of sense, what are you talking about?

Translation: I suck at VQ3 duels.

there are two rulesets in reflex, competitive with timers disabled and 10 match and casual, with timers enabled and 5 minute match.

In reflex community has always been considered a "new player feature"... only retards like you were going around saying stuff about it. In reflex you also get mind games, you just have 0 experience on it.

Now have fun crying a river about it in QC even if you didn't even see how they work yet.

I'll gladly take a downgrade if it means there are enough players online in North America that I can actually play something other than a garbage pub mode.

Well what does it bring to the table in regard of game mechanics to make it easier in that regard? It does not introduce any further nuance to the gameplay, rather it takes away from the game in several ways.

I do understand how it is an appealing quick fix to deal with the issue of players feeling overwhelmed by item timing. One thing you have to bear in mind though, is that it has usually been in a scenario, where one player is superior in skill than the other. Little advantages in Quake quickly accumulates to a massive skill gap, where timing just becomes so much harder when you are pressured in every other aspect of the game as well. I have considered all this, but the key word should be matchmaking!

In Quake Champions they will have to introduce skill matching. That means it will be two new players pitched against each other, who will presumable both be equally bad at the game and hence item timing. That makes for a very different game experience, where one isn't able to run all the items, but rather items being timed sometimes and sometimes not.

Now this should not be something that takes away the enjoyment of the game at all. On the other hand, a major aspect of Quake has been preserved, and along with that all the nuance, complexity and depth of skill it requires to master item timing.

In conclusion; I just do not see how taking away timing will make the game more enjoyable, if we presume players will be matched in skill.

Btw as you might have guessed, this is mainly from a perspective of duel. You can introduce visual timers in team modes if you really want to :P

Short answer, I don't know. You're right in saying that matchmaking is a key to the user experience, but there might be more here.

I think the best example I can make is when starcraft moved from broodwar to wings of liberty, and a big controversial change was auto-mining, which meant that the routine of tapping space to select the latest builder and the extra click to send it mining/extracting was no longer needed. People who learned to do that routine were outraged, because they had worked hard to be skillful at it, and now their advantage was removed. And by adding auto-mining, the game was not becoming more interesting or complex, just more accessible. You could argue though, that player were freed up from a chore, and could use that extra concentration to do something more meaningful.

I think that a valid reason is for changes like these is a shift in what skills you want your players to focus on, and how you want them to spend their concentration while playing. Because competitive people (which can be your target audience) will definitely look up for how to become better, and at some point - as designer - you know that to get better at your game players have to spend time doing a specific activity, and you should worry about whether that activity is fun, rewarding, and in line with the product you want to make.

What is hard is to understand what really defines Quake, in terms of its defining principles and skills that the players should develop with it. Doom sp was changed substantially in its most recent release, but I would argue it kept faithful to the original in many ways.

Now, I believe that strategic thinking is part of Quake, especially duel, but adding numbers is not the core of it. I can imagine a Quake where you still have to gather the information, guess what the opponent is about to do, and plan your next move, but without the need to add 25/35 and to remember the exact time.

I can imagine this as well, but I cannot imagine it being a better gaming experience. The same goes for imagining removal of strafe jumping and just having a flat movement speed in stead. All the same arguments you made can be applied to advocated this as well, and yet I think we can both agree that the game objectively will be lesser.

not really, strafe jumping around in high speed blowing ppl up is fun, doing math while playing a video game is not. That's his point as far as i understand, fun vs a chore.

Not really. Outsmarting your enemy with tactical play based on item timing is intellectually rewarding and fun. Pressing buttons on a keyboard and clicking your mouse is not. Fun vs a chore.

Same argument, just reversed focus of nuance.

Nah, pretty sure most people don't like doing math when playing a game.

All this talk about making it more "accessible", and "think of the casuals", etc, etc. The various casual players I've watched over the years don't time armors/items, regardless if there's a timer for them or not. Just like changing LG dmg from 7 to 6 or 6 to 7 isn't going to change the fact that newbs will still get destroyed by it.

It would be interesting to see stats from quakelive since before and after the timers were introduced. Have average players taken more armors/items?

I can't remember the exact quote, but I remember an interview or post by czm regarding quakelive. Something along the lines of: you don't need to make the game easier to make it more accessible, you need to make getting into the game easier to make it more accessible.

And I wonder if id/bethesda has bought some people off. I'm kinda surprised by some people's comments making item control and timing seem like a rather insignificant part of the gameplay.

yeah, but what makes game getting easier to get in?
Is it more closed games versus bots, what about players that don't want that, maybe they just want to get in and frag people.

Do you do tutorials, and stream on basic gameplay players are encouraged to watch?
What if they don't bother?

What are ingame things you can do to make getting INTO the game easier?

If you could elaborate on what make getting INTO a game easier then we can further discuss you view and relation to timers.

As for any stats on have new players been picking up more items I'd say it's mute point since introduction of timers came long after any hype quakelive had died down. Even competitive QL died down.

DO WE GOT RADAR TO FIND ALL THAT SHIT?!?!?! PLZ INSTALL THAT

well fuck , you had to say it, go play football you dirtbag croation. :P

I'm most interested to see how duel gamemode is executed!

I'm as well, but at the same time, I'm really hoping for some good team mode and competition. If they could somehow pump CTF, and channel most people into playing some variation of it, I think it could be great.

CTF - it's not quake. Frags! Frags! Frags! In CTF frags are useless..

not when you have to frag flag carrier :*

CTF is fun mode. Not for grinding and not for main mode..

That's why I hope they make duels so ridiculous and unbalanced that people will choose another mode for competitions.

Sounds great!!

First, aswell

I just wanna know..... how do I do the backflips?

you pick Slash and get killed!

Interesting and intriguing.

I want a champ with swimming ability please. I will stay underwater and keep taking other players with grappling hook to get drown!

cant do that and this and that.

well nice, now we need more material to process... gief champion list with abilities :)

And I kept being killed, and I couldn’t aim up properly, and I had to learn how to circle strafe and use rocket jumps…

Wasn't it discovered much later there was a "bug" that allowed you o go faster by doing consecutive jumps while strafing? I'm also pretty sure he didn't start rocketjumping early on, because no one would have though of it coming from Doom because it just didn't exist before Quake.

Can you imagine how it would have been if they had fixed that bug?

bro

circle strafing =/= strafe jumping

So Quake 1 themed with QuakeLive multiplayer abilities plus champion stuff?

Exactly what a new Quake needs to retain the hardcore fanbase and gain new blood.

ITS HAPPENING GUYS!

Q5 CONFIRMED!

u wont like it cuz of announcer voice... dont hype yourself! :))))

That joke got old since the third time you used it.

On topic, Willits talks about Lovecraft and Quake 1 vibe, you really think there wont be a proper announcer...

kk i repent.

I hope QC won't be to fast. Q4 was nice in some state and after last patches, they made it to fast.. crouchsliding half map.. with CPM speed and air control , you lose postion and a lot of strategy aspects.. I hope classes will be balanced and not to fast/random..

is quake live more random than cs? its faster.
Is reflex/cpm/qw more random than ql?

There wasn't air control in Q4, just crouchslide and rampjumps

Like I didn't played Q4 in top level :) My bad english..

Im more concerned about the extra stuff.
It would be really nice to have ongoing 8/16/32 ppl tournament brackets with map veto, etc like pokerstars or something.... so you enter, feel like playing a tournamen, b01, you get matched against similar skill oponents and play a tourney and if you win you get some reward.
Ideally you will have ongoing duel, 2v2, 3v3, etc tournaments at the same time.... even you could have weekly 512players tourney, etc etc...
Give me that and im good.

As awesome as that would be, it sounds exactly like the kind of thing that would be delegated to syncerror and sponge.

The only good thing to come from Q4 was the tournament mode, and im 100% sure they will not implement this in the new Quake. Instead they will add fucking item timers. Jesus Christ.

We want to give you a 50% chance of wining.
People who are not talented in quake had success in our tests

Kappa

4Head

Btw i suppose you will be able to setup custom servers without champions abilities, as Willits says it will have the mp of q3/ql and both were super customizable.

Ye, keep on supposing

I hope they wont do the "on item timers" like they have in QL when there is no way to conceal the information about the next time.

Yeah if they have to have item timers, something like displaying the timer to only the guy who got the item last allows for this sort of delaying and stealing mechanic to remain. Might make it too easy to stay in control though

Item timers kill the gameplay.

I agree for things like duel and TDM but not for all modes

Overwatch wouldnt be a better game if they hid the item timers because its not about resource control, the focus is on the objective, the composition and the abilities. Obfuscating the side elements of the game wouldnt improve it enough to justify how shitty it would make pub games

I do hope they keep item timers away from duel though, which sounds pretty reasonable as it sounds like they wont be promoting duel or using it to attract new players. Doesnt really matter how hardcore duel will be as players will come for this new team mode and ID will promote this new team mode with tournaments.

May as well give duel players whatever settings they want

In overwatch im so glad there are health timers . Because you are playing with 5 other people that is not giving the information you need, then not to have any sort of information is extremely frustrating when you just want to pop in and have fun.

Professional level, that is another thing on its own .

I wonder how they want to make game in Lovecraftian theme and top world esports game at the same time. Add blood, gibs, demons and the game receives higher age rating. This way you lose large player base of young people.

However Quake1 was 17+ and Painkiller 16+ and both were ones of top esport games at a time. Overwatch with its cartoon candy look and feel is 12+. QC has no chance to beat OW because of it.

those 12 year olds don't "buy" games so ... On the other hand 16 year olds do :)

I don't find it that much about beating OW in that aspect. Cartoonish Blizzard FPS with massive lore and huge machine behind it should not be beaten easily. Casuals will still play both and will spend reasonable amout of time with each game getting dissapointed by randomness in OW and wrong team layouts and abusing bastion etc. In quake they will ragequit because of noobbashing, or get really frustrated with abysmal netcode/ping id servers had to this date, failing movement mechanics etc.

It's more about who will invest and get more viewers and have more attractive games. I guess, I'm biased here, even though I've played OW, Quake has that in abundance. It's explosive and faster and has more chance of hitting those impressive shots.

Since when do gamers respect age-ratings? In any case it gives things more appeal.

Good good, so minors will play OW while grown ass men play QC, im fine with that.

but that doesnt mean grown ass man wont act like 12yearsold... take zhu for example.

sad but true

This is correct but we need meat a lot of fresh meat!

I just ate some sushi

It was really nice

Maybe weapon control and enemy reading is a viable skill this time around.

You can absolutely control weapons in Quake Live.

Just share one of the power-ups and you have time to deny the weapon all day long.

Or maybe you would like to control both power-ups, and deny a weapon in addition to that ? In this case it's no good, that's too much control. Only maps where there are no big power-ups every 30 seconds like T4 it makes sense that you should be able to deny a weapon.

Weapons should be treated as power ups in duel like they are in TDM. This allows different styles, tactics and strategies (how to run the map) to prevail which adds variety to the gameplay. The current shitty railfest is just because a) rail is too easy to hit and b) you can not control rail pickups. Also, this would require the ammo to be made important agai (limit it) n so the guy who controls some weapons can't abuse them indefinitely without having to give up position for ammo. Also, the game should not be about the "holy trinity" as Willits calls them. All weapons should be viable if you choose so.

And what powerup is 30 seconds on t4?

I would love to have maps, without some main weapon. etc t2 , no rail, t4 no lg.
on topic. you can control rail in t4 and a little bit in dm6. same goes for aero lg.

T H I S
H
I
S

i like this idea and like it in t4 rail deny, its a fun idea and if narator/streamer recognize it , so he can interpret it to spectators, then ITS SO A HYPE THING!

while at t4, ... dat after pause game .... i forgot if it was cooler or strenx, but one of them returned from an almoast impossible situation, purly by skill, determination and maybe a little luck, but that match was amazing. Any1 has a link?

Yeah but would you make weapons spawn @lower frequency or bigger maps?

I get what you are proposing, just can't see all the consequences of that or how it would be achieved.

QL is mostly RL/LG/RG in tdm it can be MG fest if 2 guys focus fire, shotgun is something people actually use positionally, plasma is mostly spam weapon.

The thing is most of fight balance comes off of weapons being accessible. You cannot deny weapons because you have items.

TDM's main problems are the random spawn system and MG as a starting weapon. MG can be stronger than shaft or railgun if the rail misses or you're out of shaft's reach. Same with RL. The default weapon should be changd to nailgun or something.

I was mainly talking about duel in mind. TDM atm I feel is fine for what it's trying to be regarding the weapon respawn times. I'd say it's RL, LG, RG and SG mainly with PG trailing a little when it comes to usage. The problems with duel are different and since duel was obviously id software's main focus with QL I think they are bound to make the same mistakes they did in duel: too much ammo, everyone has all the weapons, stacks so high that only 3 weapons are viable etc.

Yeah but isn't DUEL layered anough without adding another weapon control layer to the mix.

I mean image having to control MH/RA/YA and out of position items and then having to camp/control weapons?

Isn't that sort of pushing the ceiling on the game so much it sort of breaks it?

It just means that both players will have to make more decisions and sacrifices per map rotation. It also means people will have to make use of 2nd tier weapons a lot more.

This is something I really want to see in QL duel.

All weapons need to be viable but some will be higher tier. This is what the holy trinity means I think.

In theory RL, LG, RG should be stronger that PG or SG. Its one of the biggest problems in QL I think that MG and especially SG are too strong compared to the top tier weapons. Its OK if shotgun wins you a close fight that almost comes down to melee range vs. rocket launcher. But in QL SG is the weapon with the most kills overall in TDM, due to it being available 2 times on most maps and pretty strong on mid distance as well.

If QC brings good weapon control, and a better weapon balance, i.e. having won the control for a high tier weapon should mean more if this weapon can't be outplayed by a second tier weapon so easily, then this would be an improvement over QL.

This would promote more strategic play and less dumbass +forwardholdm1downfor20minhiddenfortressidiocy as well.

I disagree, partly. I would approach the problem differently.

I would divide the combat into ranges and situations. Each weapon should have a purpose and collecting items/weapons during a match makes you more rounded in combat situations. So a person with one set of weapons has a very different tactical and strategical goals from a person who has another set. In my opinion SG and RL are different enough from each other (mechanically, how they work) to not nerf SG to have it be the "weaker" weapon. It's easy to jump out of SG range and if you are close then RL is the stronger one anyways. The problem is more because of the average stacks in TDM: the higher the average stacks, the weaker SG is. And all the rushing you mention is because of MG being the default weapon and too small maps where people spawn in front of each other.

I would see SG as the close range brother of rail gun. If you want to use a hitscan weapon from close you should be using SG. So during a game this means that if you want to be ready for all situations you need both of them, otherwise you should be avoiding the situations for which you lack weapons. This also leads to traps being stronger because if you manage to trap enemy into the situation where he is weak you deal relatively more damage.

I don't know if changing the map size is the better approach. I feel that, if a map works for the other weapons, and I think even hidden does, but the starting weapon is super strong on it then its easier to change the weapon. The other approach changes too many variables at once.

Also, we are talking about the same thing here. Clearly SG should be useful in certain situations. I.e. fights at like 5-10m ingame distance. The problem with the weapon is (to me) that it stays effective at 15-20m range where something like LG should be relatively stronger. Now, ofc LG is stronger than SG on such a distance but not enough I think to promote "weapon control" of LG enough. If you can get your hands on a SG so easily on any given map, it stays relevant even at shaft range, controling shaft becomes less effective. Factor in that LG is placed in harder (more dangerous) to hold areas most likely it becomes even worse. Then there is Quad Damage where you want to have SG before LG even. Again due to the fact that SG is too strong mid distance. And that shows in a Quad run where you can just one shot people left and right without having to close anymore.

So yeah, I would like to see QC to promote the "holy trinity" by increasing their power relatively to the easymode second tier weapons MG and SG. Plasma (if it is in) is at a great place I think and something I would like to have for MG and SG as well. Like, in certain situations it is the highest DPS weapon ingame, but most of the time the holy trinity will beat it.

Shaft got fucked in TDM with the nerf. 7 dmg shaft was fine, now it's too weak.

The holy trinity argument makes no sense. They each have their weak spots also. I could argue that shaft is too strong from close if it's 7 dmg and it's too weak from distance if it's 6. So the best course of action would be to give it tiered ammo to have it have strongest DPS at the final third of shaft distance because then it's built for certain situations. Anyways, there is no holy trinity, each of the weapons has their own situation where they are good at, plazma and SG included. Also, shaft and rail are the easiest weapon in the game. You calling SG and MG easymode weapons feels out of place.

Also, use the reply button to reply to specific posts.

"Holy trinity" is just a buzz word anyway. Maybe it comes from the feeling of having all three of them. Combine them and you can react to all situations. Rail someone, finish with LG etc. I don't know. The term has nothing to do with the argument though. The argument was that I would like to have a different weapon balance for QC and that LG, RG, RL should be stronger relative to MG and SG. That would promote weapon control ingame.

Also, shaft and rail are the easiest weapon in the game. You calling SG and MG easymode weapons feels out of place.

So rockets and plasma are the hardest ? There is no such thing as easiest weapon in quake, because the (at least) top tier weapons are balanced, which means that it only depends on the player.

both rockets, rail and shaft are hard to use effectively. But yeah, plasma is on paper the strongest weapon, but the hardest weapon to use effectively (so yeah at least i agree with you on this one).

SG is not that hard to use because of its large spread. MG is exactly like lg, you use it the same way as you use the lg.

The fact that MG does not have shaft lag so you don't have to strafeaim means it requires less skill to optimize its damage output.

One could argue that LG does not require much prediction etc, and thats fair. But still, MG requires none so it is easier to use in absolute terms.

Shaft does not have "lag". It's instant hitting weapon like railgun, SG or MG..

Lol. Maybe you should google what "cg_truelightning" is for.

Syncerror has said for years that in QL it's only for visual purposes. You hit where your crosshair is at.

Lets hope it aint so in QC then.

I think we can be confident that cg_truelightning won't be in QC and even that it be client authoritative.

Grenade launcher is the hardest.

Yes, shaft and railgun are the easiest weapon in the game because they need the least amount of thought compared to the other ones. With PG, RL and GL you need to predict and them being harder is why they have added splash radiuses for them (even though the size of RL splash is a fucking joke). I'm talking about pure mechanics, they have been balanced by the damages or reload times (shit job at it). MG and SG have a little bit extra going on with their projectile cones. With SG, since it's really distance based, you need to think a bit how are you going to get close to the enemy which is harder than just standing outside of enemy ranges with rail or shaft. MG is bullshit through and through but still harder because of the random spread but I don't think you can be intelligent with that so I suppose it's same as RG and shaft.

Grenade launcher is the hardest.

it's not ;)
because when you use it you almost never aim for a direct nade hit.
and you have to take into consideration the purpose of the weapon, it's not meant to deal a lot of damage like rl for example, it's meant to be "spammed" and prevent the enemy from coming to certain doors/entrances.
it's more a "tactical" weapon than a weapon to kill your opponent.

Yes, shaft and railgun are the easiest weapon in the game because they need the least amount of thought compared to the other ones

If you have to "think" when using a weapon doesn't necessarily mean that it makes the weapon harder to use.

With PG, RL and GL you need to predict and them being harder is why they have added splash radiuses for them

except for pg, you almost never aim for a direct hit with rl or gl. And like you say, there's splash radius which make it easier. If rl didn't have splash radius then yes it would probably have been the hardest weapon to use. But it's not the case.
Also, you're implying that lg or rail are purely based on reflexes, while weapon like rl are pure prediction. But you're forgetting one thing : you can practice your reflexes just as much as you can practice your "predictions". Practicing your reflexes is just as hard as practicing your "predictions".

(even though the size of RL splash is a fucking joke)

can you elaborate on this ?
because i think it's fine as it is ;)

With SG, since it's really distance based, you need to think a bit how are you going to get close to the enemy

I could say : "With RG, since it's really distance based, you need to think a bit how are you going to keep the distance to the enemy" ;)

With RL you DO aim for a direct hit, but it's at the feet because since it's HARDER to hit one you at least want to make the splash damage. You are always trying to go for the 100 damage. I don't know how it is hard to comprehend that weapons (prediction based) that need you to take into account enemy dodge 3 dimensions when aiming are inherently harder than weapon which mostly need you to aim with in 2 dimensions (hitscan). Yes, you can say that in case of hitscan weapons the distance of the enemy also matters because enemy gets smaller, but the effect on the aim (specially because of zoom) is relatively much smaller. Which group of weapons is easier to teach to an ape for example?

The size of RL splash radius (and the speed also) is a joke because it is too forgiving and it makes +forward dodge rarely a viable option. In equal fights it's always the player who side dodges and +back spams better that wins a RL fight. This doesn't allow for more dynamic fights where in fight it's viable do dodge +forward. It was made easier relative to Q3 because hitscan became a lot easier due to new netcode or to make it easier for all the noobs: in either case it makes fights too defensive and boring. The lower the pings the more hitscan like it works because of the average size of the rooms. People can hit that 20dmg by missing a mile (often they can't even miss more) and even though you had better position or made a nice dodge move you get killed with low hp.

With RL you DO aim for a direct hit, but it's at the feet because since it's HARDER to hit one you at least want to make the splash damage.

it depends, sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, but it's still a hit with decent damages because of the radius of the explosion.
also trying to aim for a direct hit is very risky actually, unless it's very close range or midair.
Even if you don't do a direct 100dmg hit, you will still do decent damages, like 70-84, which is enough damages done in most situations, not even counting the fact that with the knockback of the weapon sometimes you aim at the feet and it makes the opponent bounce in the air which means free 90+damages with the next rocket (if you time well your shot and you wait for the opponent to fall down to the ground).
like i said, rl without splash damage or very few splash damages would make it end up like PG, which is the hardest weapon to use effectively. Would probably even make it harder than pg since its firerate is much slower.
would end up like rockets in shootmania for example. That's why in shootmania you have 3 defense players with rockets without splash damage, and 1 player with rail, and yes in this case rail is easier to hit than rockets, but like i said it's 3v1 so things are still balanced.

You are always trying to go for the 100 damage.

You are always trying to go for the maximum ammount of damages with taking into consideration the risk of missing a rocket. By keeping in mind this risk of missing a rocket, you will then aim at the feet as close as possible to the target. Most experienced rl players don't try to direct hit but rather do high dps with the splash radius. And since reload time of the rl isn't that slow, it's often better to shoot a rocket close to the opponent and do like 75+damages and then right after it, repeating the action. It's less risky to have this kind of prediction aim with rl and almost always more effective than always trying for a direct hit.

I don't know how it is hard to comprehend that weapons (prediction based) that need you to take into account enemy dodge 3 dimensions when aiming are inherently harder than weapon which mostly need you to aim with in 2 dimensions (hitscan).

you mean +back + +forward + +left and +right = 3 dimensions and just +left + +right = 2 dimensions ?

if so, then it depends on your position. For example if your position is at the top and enemy's position is at bottom then you have your 3 dimensional aim with rail and lg aswell. And this kind of situations happen more often than you think, especially on maps like lostworld.

but then again it's only a matter of splash radius. Even if it's 3 dimensional aim, the splash helps A LOT to do the damages you needed to do. Just aim in the center of the possible +b +f +l +r and you're good to go ;)
rail and lg don't have splash. So even if it's often 2 dimensional aim, if you don't hit the hitboxe, you don't do damage at all, unlike with rl.

Yes, you can say that in case of hitscan weapons the distance of the enemy also matters because enemy gets smaller, but the effect on the aim (specially because of zoom) is relatively much smaller.

I wasn't even thinking of that. What i meant is more that keeping the right distance from your enemy, be it close or medium or long, requieres the same ammount of skill for all kind of distance to be mastered.
going +back effectively requieres just as much skill as going +forward effectively. After all, it only depends on the different playstyles of the players.

The size of RL splash radius (and the speed also) is a joke because it is too forgiving and it makes +forward dodge rarely a viable option. In equal fights it's always the player who side dodges and +back spams better that wins a RL fight.

nope ;). QuakeLive weapon balance is close to perfection. I play quake since 2002, and at that time and even later (2005-2007), rl was too weak, rail too strong, and later lg became too strong in CPMA/vq3 because of netcode + magical "xerp" command. Rail was 100dmgs, rl traveled at 900ups (instead of 1000ups in QL), lg was 8-8-8 damages and netcode + xerp made it like playing on lan everytime.
Also, if you +f dodge, you can also side dodges, just like with +back.
And it also depends on the map you're playing and on the initial positions of both player right before the fight happens.

It was made easier relative to Q3 because hitscan became a lot easier due to new netcode

There is no such thing as "new netcode". QL's netcode is basically a "dumbed down" version of CPMA's netcode.
I agree tho that with both cpma and ql netcode, hitscans are easier but rail does "only" 80dmg per hit (which is enough) and lg is 6-6-6 instead of the 8-8-8 from q3. Not even mentionning "cpma's lan feeling netcode" which made the lg op with its 8-8-8 dmgs.
And even earlier in the history of q3, back to osp, when playing on lan, rockets speed was, like i said already, only 900ups and, again, lg was 8 dmgs and rail 100 + lan ping. So yeah, rockets were a bit weak compared to rail and lg, but because of hardware limitations (no 144hz+ monitors, worst mice and mousepads etc) and also the overall skill of the players was a lot lower (because most of the pros didn't have 10+ years of quake practice), which balanced the weapons a bit actually (back in 2002-2004 at least).

in either case it makes fights too defensive and boring.

it depends on the player(s) you're playing against, not because of the weapons settings.

The lower the pings the more hitscan like it works

best ping range for hitscans with ql netcode is from 35 to 45ms. Because of unlagged shit etc.

nope

Nice I also like the "QL weapon balance is the ultimate endgame of deathmatch game design and the preference of a different, less "balanced" style of gameplay is objectively wrong" meme

"Quake Champions – a Lovecraftian Overwatch?"

Died a little inside when I read that.....

Timers and abilities wtf seriously

Why are kids these days such unambitious whiny pussies with no balls who require such idiotic features to enjoy the game is beyond me

Yeah what's with that fucking railgun? Stupid noskill weapon introduced to make Quake a casual game. Back in the days we didn't have railguns in Quake, we had skill.

I see what u did there

Man I haven't checked esr or any gaming site in a couple weeks...thought I was dreaming when I saw quake champions announced then read this interview. If this game is half as fun as any previous quake it might just destroy my life.

"Some people love the strafe jump, some people don’t rocket jump, some people don’t use air control, and some people are more aggressive or defensive."

I use strafe jump, rocket jump, play aggressive and defensive! Though i dont use air control. :(

I want fresh news or interview about QC :<

BREAKING NEWS: its not a moba

maybe you can discern something new from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OEBvXEXpHQ

Btw he directly said here stuff like:
If you want someone who is SLOWER but has more HEALTH you can pick that guy. And that those are the passive abilities.

Also that there is a character with awesome air attack :)

He also said "no loadouts" which I hadnt heard yet.

I had assumed they were going with loadouts based on class + map weapon pickups but this is even better

esports size is 5v5 (sensing CTF as the comp mode) or maybe it will be the halo mode mix but 5v5

Can't wait for fucking boring counter pick meta and "who's the best nyx player" threads

guessing cypher
nyx rl

inb4 heartless

The best team size is... 5?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O3KnC9hWRE

too ez

Slower champions with more HP. Meh. I don't like the sound of that. Champions with air control vs. others without as a passive ability - like that even less.

I was hoping they would focus the champions on just one or two active abilities.

Oh well, lets wait and see what they got at QuakeCon.

Disappointing indeed

Tim Wiliteius Ju better not be lying ok?