WTF? ANOTHER ONE? Does this game always become unplayable during school holidays? I wasn't playing until early this year, so I wouldn't know, but the timing seems too much to be a coincidence

u smart


u loyal


i appreciate that

Get on IRC or ESEA or something and play pickup games instead

channels? iM me if u don't wanna put them here.

I dont play counter-strike, maybe HLTV knows? Im sure the exist.

cheaters invading overwatch aswell

people like tviq(former TF2 player that was already suspected for cheating in TF2), bromas(former LoL player), iddqd(not the quake player), linkzr etc...

a friend of mine told me that, i don't play overwatch anymore but i trust him because he plays fps games for like 20 years and is rank 78 at overwatch in solo queue (which means in solo with teams mixed up with random people)

current max rank reached is 81 (or 84 can't remember) but without random mixed up teams (means that you play with people you know, that are at least as good as you)

cheaters in ql too :/
people like "unseen" (who pretends to be a girl, LOL!) "i7deuce" (4+ VAC bans), "LEGACY" (dota 2 player with too good rockets and plasma to be true, but 0 LG/RG) are all cheating

cheaters everywhere, basically.

lol even Usain Bolt took drugs to run faster and Jon Jones used drugs aswell to be #1 MMA/UFC fighter of all times (he's now pulled out of the UFC, which is basically like a permaban)

cheaters in ql too :/
people like "unseen" (who pretends to be a girl, LOL!)

haha, indeed

people like "unseen" (who pretends to be a girl, LOL!)

sounds like someone got catfished!

tviq and iddqd don't cheat lol, they've played since closed beta

"zhu don't chit, he play q3 ctf too"

blizzard's anticheat is a lot stronger than what Q3 and QL ever had

Yes and there is also more demand for cheats and coders putting more time into making em

sure, but tviq and iddqd? they played from the very first closed beta and won lots of tourneys - i dont believe they would have managed to evade the anticheat for that long. also there's no proof whatsoever..

I don't follow that scene and have no idea who those people are. I was just saying that its not really hard to cheat undetected in any game nowdays

yeah, lets just assume everyone cheats then.

That's what cheater would do.

sure, but tviq and iddqd? they played from the very first closed beta and won lots of tourneys - i dont believe they would have managed to evade the anticheat for that long. also there's no proof whatsoever..

ofc i know they played since early closed beta. But tviq is coming from a game with 0 weapons like the assault rifle of soldier76 or mccree "super-gun", but still he outaims anyone with either s76 or mccree, from what my friend told me. He has basicallly "serious"'s style of tracking, just perfect tracking in any situation without a single miss. There is no way you can get that good with hitscans weapons like s76 in 8 months. My friend is a very very high skilled half-life 1 deathmatch (with the mod adrenaline gamer), he is even better than GaRpY at this game. And he's also now a top quakeworld player. Talking about quakeworld players, he's friend with rikoll locust etc, he plays overwatch with them, and they all saw some streams of tviq and played against him, and they all think that he is cheating.
You can't outaim with hitscan weapons quake/AG players that play their game for 20+years, especially if you come from a game where there's basically no hitscan weapons like lg/mg/hmg or s76's assault rifle, in only ~8 months of practice, it's just not human.
Also, tviq played some quakelive and his hitscans aim is mediocre at best. When i used to play soldier76 for 4-6h straight and came back to ql my lg aim was even better, because ground accel in overwatch is infinite, means that it's much faster than in quakelive/quakeworld/reflex, so it's easier to aim in ql with hitscan weapons than in ow, but how can you explain that tviq's aim in ql is only mediocre ?
And also there are a lot of threads etc on TF2 forums of tviq suspected to be cheating.
Also i prefer to agree with oldschool very high skilled quakeworld/ag players than all the wannabes pro overwatch players, or let's say the "mass" of people. They're all naive and deluded.

and last but not least, it's very easy to evade anticheat, look at players like "serious", "unseen" and the CS:GO pro players that played LANs without getting caught, and even winning them...

it is very much possible, because Soldier starts getting recoil after four shots.

Someone that knows that will always beat another Soldier in long range fights. I could beat evil if he were to leave the button pressed and I stop shooting every four shots.

there's no class/hero like soldie76 in TF2, even with recoil.

apparently you never played the game ? long range soldier vs soldier is pointless because of healing + healing from support heroes.
soldier vs soldier only happens in mid/close range because that way you can use the rockets and do dmgs faster because you never stop shooting and you can even aim at the head.

also when there's soldier vs soldier it's mainly outside of the melee, which means no support from your team m8s.

but anyway in tviq case, i wasn't really talking about s76 vs s76, just that his aim in general with s76 is just too good to be true

Happens in the Russian map and in Numbani, all the time.

The "too good to be true" aim with Soldier happens when someone uses the trick I explained. With it any decent player can beat a Quake pro and seem as he is cheating.

Soldier is essentially playing CoD or BF. Everyone has played that.

I'm rank 76. What's yours?

ok my bad then i thought that you didn't even play the game =) sry

but still even with the trick you explained there is no class in TF2 that has this kind of aiming. And i'm more talking about med-low range rather than long range.

tviq is a former TF2 player, afaik he never played cod of bf.

(Lurked for ages, first time posting)

This is very interesting because I also think certain players are probably cheating in OW, namely:
- TorkTJO & NicolasTJO (due to their past)
- Taimou (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFJfirnuBEg)
- Mendokusaii

I don't watch many streams so there are probably more.

However your friend & Rikoll are top-tier players at games that nobody plays. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but the talent pool is extremely small and it is very very likely that there are players that are MUCH more talented than them in the OW comp scene. So if he thinks that nobody will match his aim because he has 20 years of experience in a game with different ground movement, player models, no headshots or spread, and 0 talent pool, then he's in for a rude awakening. It is also rather silly to expect a 1-1 correspondence between hitscan in a game like QW and OW. If anything he may have picked up "bad" habits (relatively speaking) that will be hard to correct since he is probably 30+ years old.

Quake/HLDM/etc are difficult games but they don't have big talent pools. Kinda like how MMA is a difficult sport but the quality of the athletes is laughably low compared to other sports.

- Taimou (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFJfirnuBEg)

Yeah my friend also suspects Taimou to be cheating. And he's not the only one.

However your friend & Rikoll are top-tier players at games that nobody plays. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but the talent pool is extremely small and it is very very likely that there are players that are MUCH more talented than them in the OW comp scene.

If it were for a game like starcraft or LoL i would agree with your statement. But in a game like overwatch, I disagree totally.
I mean, if my friend and rikoll/locust switched from quakeworld to starcraft or dota/LoL then obviously they would get crushed because these games don't play a single bit like quakeworld/quakelive/AG.
But in a game like overwatch, you have projectiles weapons (like grenade launcher (junkrat), rocket launcher (pharah) and plasma gun (lucio)), you have hitscans weapons (soldier,mccree,widow etc), that work basically just like in quake. The only differences are obviously the maps (but it's very easy to learn the maps in OW) and, like I said already, the ground accel. Ground accel in OW is infinite, while in Quake it has its limitation, and it's slowest in Half-Life 1 Adrenaline Gamer (HLDM AG, basically deathmatch in HL1). But ground accel doesn't change the way you are aiming, it's just the same in quake/AG, it just means that you'll probably hit 2-4% less overall accuracy than in quake/AG.

So basically if you're a good quake/AG player, it's much MUCH easier to switch to overwatch, because of the "core-gameplay" similarities i mentionned above.
Ofc you still have to learn teamplay, but unless you're not polyvalent enough, it's not that hard to learn, and teamplay =/= combat-skills.
If you play quake/AG for 15+ years it's obvious that the switch to overwatch will be rather easy and that in a short ammount of time you'll become one of the best if you already were one of the best in quake/AG.

Also, like i said already, my friend is lvl ~80 in solo queue (and his main game was AG for years, then quakelive, then atm quakeworld), and obviously he doesn't play with team m8s he knows, he always play with "random" people. But he already encountered people like cypher , tviq , taimou etc while playing with the matchmaking system. He's matched with all of these top OW players. And he has a very very long experience of arena/deathmatch FPS. And on top of that he's one of the best "pure" aim player i know. When onfire, his aim is fucking smooth and accurate, believe me :).

And talking about talent, top quake players, no matter the quake version, DO HAVE talent :). And if they don't have it, then they played enough time the game to be extremely good at it (10+ years of quake), anyways.

More players doesn't necessarily mean more talent. Most of the time it means more noobs/casual players rather than top-players.
To give you an example, if you look at the quakelive's apogee, so back in 2008-2010, when you look at the pic of popularity of the game, players like rapha zero4 spart1e cypher cooller strenx and so on, were still dominating the game, and the game wasn't in the category of "games that nobody plays".
To give you another example, take a game like starcraft 2, there was a time where the game was extremely popular (the first months when starcraft 2 was released, back in 2008 if i remember correctly) (the game is still pretty popular nowadays), and who were dominating ? Broodwar or warcraft 3 players.

So there's no way that in 6+months you can be as good as tviq or these others players i mentionned before if you don't come from a game like quake, and especially if you don't have any FPS background and you come from a moba (like the player Bromas in OW, yes, my friend also thinks that he's cheating).

And from my own experience, the way you play a character like soldier76 for example, is just like if you were playing quakelive MG/LG only. Ground accel is different but like i said the way you are aiming remains the same.

And last but not least, I can't even count the number of top OW players that came from games where they cheated/were suspected of cheating (CS:GO, TF2 etc)...

It is also rather silly to expect a 1-1 correspondence between hitscan in a game like QW and OW. If anything he may have picked up "bad" habits (relatively speaking) that will be hard to correct since he is probably 30+ years old.

Then can you explain to me why my friend from quake/AG is already lvl ~80 in soloqueue ? Why people like cooller or dahang, winz, akm etc are already top players at the game ? And why stermy dominated with tracer when the game was still in beta ? Why kukki has the best accuracy in NA with tracer ?

Also being 30 years old is like being 30 years old in MMA/UFC, your reflexes and experience are still enough to dominate, and adapting to something "new" is still more than possible unless it's like TOTALLY different than what you learned already (and it's not the case in the quake -> ow scenario).

Kinda like how MMA is a difficult sport but the quality of the athletes is laughably low compared to other sports.

How can you be so sure of that ? :) I bet my life that if MMA were as much popular as soccer, people like Fedor, Anderson, GSP, McGregor etc would still dominate everyone.

And what about Formula 1 ? :)

More players often means more talent. The smartest guy in school will probably only be average at a top University. I agree that playing HLDM/QW for 20 years probably gives you an edge, but your progress is only linear for a short time. And it is likely that while you are practicing hard to maintain/incrementally increase your accuracy, somebody will surpass you just by having raw talent that surpasses yours. And this is discounting the obvious fact that OW is not "pure aim", even as S76 you need gamesense and teamplay, both of which are probably more important than the extra 3% acc you squeezed out because you pracced povdmm4 for 15 years against bots.

Of course top Quakers are talented. But just like CZM is very talented at math, he is still basically nothing compared to somebody like Euler, Witten, etc (I will of course eat my words if he wins a Fields medal one day). And when lots of people compete, you are bound to see people like this pop up and eventually rise to the top.

Also, like i said already, my friend is lvl ~80 in solo queue

The way the MM works is that you can basically play S76 and have 55% winrate and still rank up to 75+ since it's kinda simple (relative to playing other chars) to have 3 golds per game. This means that you can be some guy with good aim and play against actual "top" players who are 10x more versatile than you are and have a deeper understanding of the game. Well not anymore, since he just got nerfed, but you get the idea.

Why people like cooller or dahang, winz, akm etc are already top players at the game ?

Cooller, Dahang and winz play support and are on very good but not top-tier teams (which is basically only Envy followed by C9 atm). Being the "best tracer" during beta is quite irrelevant honestly.

How can you be so sure of that ? :) I bet my life that if MMA were as much popular as soccer, people like Fedor, Anderson, GSP, McGregor etc would still dominate everyone.

Basically 0% chance of that happening. Let's take Jon Jones, he is by FAR the least athletic of his brothers. He couldn't make the cut in HS american football so he switched to wrestling, was decent at it and then went to MMA. Stipe Miocic was a 2nd rate wrestler/baseball player. Etc. Do you really think that if MMA had the same talent pool as major sports (i.e. a mainstream activity that nearly every kid fantasizes about playing) that there wouldn't be people who are simply more gifted athletically and have the willingness to sustain that kind of damage? Trust me that 90% of fighters would play another sport if they had the ability to be elite at it: there is so much more money involved and you don't get punched in the face as bonus.

As you go up in weightclasses it's even worse. So yes maybe Mighty Mouse would still dominate at 125lbs, but there is basically no chance that Fedor would be undefeated for 10 years in a deep talent pool.

http://esreality.com/post/2829426/n-a/#pid2829383

The way the MM works is that you can basically play S76 and have 55% winrate and still rank up to 75+ since it's kinda simple (relative to playing other chars) to have 3 golds per game.

If the heroes are balanced and work as they have to work, then i don't see why it would be easier to get 3 gold medals per game with s76 compared to the other heroes.

and don't tell me it's harder to play support or tank... Winz can play support with feet on the desk :D

This means that you can be some guy with good aim and play against actual "top" players who are 10x more versatile than you are and have a deeper understanding of the game

who care if you're not versatile ? It's a team game with 6 people per team, so each player has to focus on 1 to 3 heroes max, because if you spread your focus, you'll be only decent with 6-8 heroes instead of being super-good with 2 heroes.
You have to build your team towards the "natural" abilities of each players, that can be aim or dodge or game awareness, or leadership, or better game sense etc...
I mean when you build a team, you won't get 6 players that can play all the 21 heroes perfectly, it's just IMPOSSIBLE, so, since, like i said already, it's a team game, you have to pick the right players and make them complementar. Then practicing more than 2-3 heroes is useless and will only make you worst with all the heroes.
For example having 30hours of practice with 1 or 2 hero(es) is better than having 30hours of practice splitted around 6-8 heroes.
And aim is a skill, just like the rest. It's not easier to have good aim than being versatile.

And tbh, my friend is playing the game for some months now, and he plays only overwatch now, and he's a smart/clever guy, so i'm 100% sure that he has a deep enough understanding of the game.

Cooller, Dahang and winz play support and are on very good but not top-tier teams (which is basically only Envy followed by C9 atm).

Cooller plays all kind of heroes, especially genji and roadhog. Dahang plays support and tank (especially reinhardt).

top-tier teams are not top2 teams, top-tier teams are top 10-20 teams, considering that there is probably 13M people playing the game now.
Annnndddd..... Most of the C9 players are cheating, dunno about Envyus, i need to ask my friend what he thinks of them :)

Being the "best tracer" during beta is quite irrelevant honestly.

Kukki is a pure FFA/1v1 CA player (quakelive) and he has/had best accuracy in NA (for) some weeks (ago)

If stermy kept playing overwatch with tracer, he would still be part of the best in EU with this hero, i'm sure. During the end of the beta he managed to beat teamliquid with a mix team (2GD etc) and by playing tracer. He did like 40% of the work of his team.

Let's take Jon Jones, he is by FAR the least athletic of his brothers. He couldn't make the cut in HS american football so he switched to wrestling, was decent at it and then went to MMA.

But his brothers would probably suck at MMA compared to him if they practiced it professionally, right ? It's just a matter of finding the right sport that suits you best, that you like/love the most, and then dedicate your whole life for it. It's not only a matter of numbers, like you tend to think. And it's not only a matter of being athletic, sports are not only about being athletic.

But anyway jon jones has been caught using drugs enhancers, so fuck it :D

Trust me that 90% of fighters would play another sport if they had the ability to be elite at it: there is so much more money involved and you don't get punched in the face as bonus.

You couldn't be so wrong tbh :). They play MMA/UFC because they are meant to do it, they do it by passion rather than profit. But if they can have both (which is the case for most UFC fighters), it's even better. And by profit i don't necessarily mean huge ammount of money, you can just have enough money to live decently and practice the sport you enjoy the most.
And some people prefer the adrenaline of a MMA fight (and getting punched in the face is part of it) rather than running after a ball :D

It's like saying quakeworld players aren't playing CS:GO because they suck at it, when probably only 1% of the quakeworld playerbase actually tried CS (1.6 or GO). You just play the game you are meant to play, you play the game you enjoy the most, that's all. Ofc some people just do sport/play video games only for fame and profit, but they're just stupid tbh. But whatever, you do whatever you want with your life :).

but there is basically no chance that Fedor would be undefeated for 10 years in a deep talent pool.

blasphemy tbh :>
infidel (c) cooller

If the heroes are balanced and work as they have to work, then i don't see why it would be easier to get 3 gold medals per game with s76 compared to the other heroes.

and don't tell me it's harder to play support or tank... Winz can play support with feet on the desk :D

S76 in soloQ was probably the most popular way to rank up, because of how the system works. If you lose, well you prob got gold medals so you don't lose as much as if you played support. If you win, you win more. Pretty simple to see why decent S76 mains have inflated rankings. Versatility is important because you have to account for new patches and shifts in the meta, though of course you don't need to master all the heroes...

top-tier teams are not top2 teams, top-tier teams are top 10-20 teams, considering that there is probably 13M people playing the game now.

Top-tier is self-explanatory, there is a clear cut between those two teams and the rest IMO. If you want to make up your own definitions then feel free to do so... in any case this convo will probably be more interesting in ~1 year when the scene has matured.

Annnndddd..... Most of the C9 players are cheating, dunno about Envyus, i need to ask my friend what he thinks of them :)

Taimou is, we'll see about the rest. Your friend seems to suffer from "everyone who beats me is cheating" though, it's not healthy and I worry about his mental health.

Kukki is a pure FFA/1v1 CA player (quakelive) and he has/had best accuracy in NA (for) some weeks (ago)

Aimwhoring is possible in this game, it would be more interesting to see the rest of his stats.

If stermy kept playing overwatch with tracer, he would still be part of the best in EU with this hero, i'm sure. During the end of the beta he managed to beat teamliquid with a mix team (2GD etc) and by playing tracer. He did like 40% of the work of his team.

Basing your entire speculation on 1 non-serious game isn't that great. We'll just see how the game develops, maybe we'll see some familiar faces at the very top (and even some grampas who played HLDM for 20 years), maybe we won't.

mma stuff

1. You are extremely naive if you don't think that the VAST majority of fighters are on PEDs, or are clueless about modern sports in general. I am loving the current hypocrisy surrounding JBJ/Brock btw.

2. You have no idea how JBJ's brothers would perform. Neither would I, as there are a million factors at play. The point is that one of these factors is raw athleticism, and in a deep talent pool the current top fighters would most likely be dethroned by better athletes all other things being equal. You are underestimating how big of a factor it is, while overestimating things like being "born to fight" or some other bizarre shit.

3. You underestimate how much more people would magically have this "passion" for fighting if there was as much money/fame as in major sports. Maybe it is stupid to you, but it is even stupider to dismiss it.

4. QW players haven't tried CS, but many MMA fighters started out as serious athletes in another sport before realising that they weren't good enough to make a living from it. The biggest talent flux into MMA is from collegiate wrestlers, who are mostly people who couldn't make the cut in the "major" sports. That's just the reality of it.

5. Fedor would've lost to Arona if the fight was judged by any modern standard. Still one of the best ever, though, but you need to tone down your hero worship a little bit fam (just like the one you seem to have for your friend)

S76 in soloQ was probably the most popular way to rank up, because of how the system works. If you lose, well you prob got gold medals so you don't lose as much as if you played support

it's still possible to get gold medals with support isn't it ? Are you telling me that it's easier to get gold medals with s76 than with any other hero ? If so, then i don't agree with you.
You can get gold medals with any hero as long as you're good enough with it.

Versatility is important because you have to account for new patches and shifts in the meta

I didn't say versatility isn't important. If you play soldier76 and are good with it, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're not versatile (i'm talking for my friend there).

But like i said already, aim (or let's say combat-skills in general) is just as much important and difficult to master as versatility, if not harder, because versatility is pretty much "knowledge" of the game and just things you have to know by heart.

Top-tier is self-explanatory, there is a clear cut between those two teams and the rest IMO. If you want to make up your own definitions then feel free to do so...

It's not my own definition... If the game had like only 1000 players playing it, then yes ofc top-tier would be top2 or even top1.
But there are millions of people playing the game, then top-tier becomes top 10-20 world if not top 30 tbh.

"Annnndddd..... Most of the C9 players are cheating, dunno about Envyus, i need to ask my friend what he thinks of them :)"


Taimou is, we'll see about the rest.

So at least you agree with us that some top players are suspicious. Good :).

Your friend seems to suffer from "everyone who beats me is cheating" though, it's not healthy and I worry about his mental health.

His mental health is fine, believe me :).

He is the best HLDM player of all time so if anyone beats him at HLDM yeah then it could be suspicious.

He's good @ ql and top division (div 0) at QW (and ofc very good at OW)... I can still beat him @ QL (because i play the game for 10+ years and he cba to practice QL, he prefers QW over QL), and rikoll and some other top qw players can beat him @ QW (but games are always close, and he's still able to outaim or win some duels against these top QW players), he's aware of that and doesn't accuse of cheating all the top QW and QL players that can beat him. Simply because he's aware of the fact that some people are playing quake for more than a decade now, so he has respect to those veteran players that can beat him at their own game(s).
That said, if any top QW players or even myself were to play a 1v1 on HLDM against him, we would literally
get owned hard.
And his "pure raw-aim", regardless of the game he is playing, is just one of the best if not the best i've ever seen, and he is a very intelligent dude, he could write a book about "how to aim properly". I have a lot of respect for his raw-aim and his knowledge about aim in general, he has a better raw-aim than me and 98% of the top QW players.
Trust me, when he talks about aim, you just have to sit back and listen, he for sure knows what he's talking about.

Aimwhoring is possible in this game, it would be more interesting to see the rest of his stats.

So you don't have respect for "pure raw-aim" ?
And my point was to prove that any top quake aim-whore can be a top OW aim-whore.

I will ask him later to get an update about the rest of his stats.

Basing your entire speculation on 1 non-serious game isn't that great.

This "1 non-serious game" as you call it (teamliquid played super serious during this game btw, i watched the VOD of it) was just an example (and i have plenty of them), but actually there was a lot of others factors that made him one of the best tracer in EU when he kept playing the game.

1. You are extremely naive if you don't think that the VAST majority of fighters are on PEDs, or are clueless about modern sports in general.

Where and when did i say that the majority of fighters aren't on PEDs ?
Actually i'm aware of the fact that, when a sport becomes very popular and you can win quite a lot of money if you're one of the best, then the probability of not being "clean" or using any "cheats" to make you better increases.
Still, i'm 99% sure that Fedor and Daniel are legit, they don't seem dodgy to me (unlike JBJ or even Conor, only to name them).

while overestimating things like being "born to fight" or some other bizarre shit.

It's not bizarre at all. It's just the way it works.

And tbh you're just overestimating the abilities of the top athletes in very popular sports. Not saying they are shit or anything, ofc they deserves respect, but i'm 100% sure that if you put Messi or CR7 in the octagon, even with a lot of practice, they still wouldn't be as good as for example GSP or Anderson, because they are meant to be soccer players, not fighters.

but many MMA fighters started out as serious athletes in another sport before realising that they weren't good enough to make a living from it.

Daniel ? Fedor ? Top wrestler ? Top sambo athlete ?

I have probably plenty of other examples especially if you talk about boxing/kickboxing/jiu-jitsu etc...

they don't move from one sport to another because they're not good enough at their former sport(s), they do it mainly because they find MMA more challenging and more "complete" as a fighting sport.

5. Fedor would've lost to Arona if the fight was judged by any modern standard. Still one of the best ever, though, but you need to tone dow

Blasphemy.
"Infidel" (c) cooller
C O O L L E R
O
O
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L
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:D

Only with Soldier and RoadHog it's realistic to get 4 gold medals, and a bronze one for healing. For example, with Lucio it's only possible to get up to 2, therefore you lose more ranking if defeated.

In ranked games it's better to just play damage dealing characters. That way you have more control of what happens is in the match. For example Pharah is for me at least, the #1 try hard pick. For others it's Genji, with the same concept.

AIMER7: I read
AIMER7: No it's not true at all at high rank
AIMER7: it doesn't change anything
AIMER7: the support heroes are rarely soloqueue
AIMER7: what he's saying is true if you play support solo queue at low rank
AIMER7: but when you reach high rank
AIMER7: a good support can carry the game
AIMER7: for example the mercy that doesn't die
AIMER7: and heals perfectly
AIMER7: it's not for nothing that there are only 500 players above rank 76
AIMER7: the ranking system isn't based only on gold medals at all, either

Blizzard said medals matter. Blizzard > rager.

You don't understand my answer: if you're a solo queuer at high rank (ie a rank superior to 74 or 75 right now with such standard deviations), gold medals aren't going to save you from how the match making works: it is much more likely that you're going to be ranked up with low 70 and high 60 (sometimes even low 60) against a team with much more homogenous rank distribution than your own.

Yet, as a DPS, it is almost impossible to carry 5 guys while a good mercy can make a giant difference in order to win a game. Whatever your amount of medals are, if you're 77+, you'll lose a lot every time you lose, and you'll lose regardless of how good you are, simply because as a solo queuer, to sustain or even reach rank above 75 is all luck (in the people you're going to be match up with and against, in the coin flips, and in lots of things like that).

Are you telling me that it's easier to get gold medals with s76 than with any other hero ? If so, then i don't agree with you.
You can get gold medals with any hero as long as you're good enough with it.

Yep, those Reinhards sure get tons of medals compared to pre-patch 76s.

It's not my own definition... If the game had like only 1000 players playing it, then yes ofc top-tier would be top2 or even top1.
But there are millions of people playing the game, then top-tier becomes top 10-20 world if not top 30 tbh.

This is completely wrong. If somebody created a fighting game with 100 characters and one character was vastly superior to the rest, would you not put him in his own tier (and call it top-tier, S-tier, broken-tier, whatever)? Of course you would.

His mental health is fine, believe me :) (...) he is a very intelligent dude

Your friend is a borderline-autistic adult who rages all the time, so I have my doubts. Well he could be "standardized-test" smart but that's as far as I'm willing to go ;D Nobody cares about being top at HLDM, and that pastebin is just... lol

So at least you agree with us that some top players are suspicious. Good :).

Said it in my first post pls read. There is a difference between this and saying "all top DPS players cheat because they are better than me when I should magically be the best because I spent my youth becoming the best eva at some game with 0 talent pool".

So you don't have respect for "pure raw-aim" ?

I do, I just don't fetishize it.

Still, i'm 99% sure that Fedor and Daniel are legit, they don't seem dodgy to me (unlike JBJ or even Conor, only to name them).

lol if you think an Olympic athlete and a Russian who fought in PRIDE (where juicing was practically encouraged) have been clean throughout their careers because they're kinda pudgy. Josh Barnett doesn't seem dodgy either, but he got caught 3 times. Again, very naive hero-worship.

i'm 100% sure that if you put Messi or CR7 in the octagon, even with a lot of practice, they still wouldn't be as good as for example GSP or Anderson, because they are meant to be soccer players, not fighters.

Oh, probably. But you're missing my point: there are tons of people who have the right attributes to become elite fighters and don't partake in the sport, simply because it's a fringe sport with very little recognition/exposure. Football is the #1 sport in nearly every country (barring USA) and Messi/CR rose to the top. MMA is a fringe sport, unknown in most parts of the world. It is evident that there's a good chance that someone better than GSP/Silva would've popped up if the popularities were flipped. Make your own analogies with defunct FPS games, it's not hard.

Daniel ? Fedor ? Top wrestler ? Top sambo athlete ?

There is no talent pool in combat sambo lol. And Picking DC just solidifies my point: this guy can start MMA extremely late and still become one of the top fighters. What does that tell you about the quality of competition? Be rational and avoid hero-worship. You have a few guys who would probably still be good if the sport was popular (but most likely not #1), and then a huge pool of mediocre talent ESPECIALLY at higher weight classes.

Yep, those Reinhards sure get tons of medals compared to pre-patch 76s.

http://esreality.com/post/2829639/re-what-s-w...pid2829639
http://esreality.com/post/2829639/re-what-s-w...pid2829645

This is completely wrong. If somebody created a fighting game with 100 characters and one character was vastly superior to the rest, would you not put him in his own tier (and call it top-tier, S-tier, broken-tier, whatever)? Of course you would.

So you agree with me that if there were only 100 players in OW you would put the 1st one in his own tier :>

And i'm not sure if your example is appropriate since there isn't 100 characters in OW and the heroes are balanced.
I'm talking about number of players relative to low-med-high-top-toptier players, and you're bringing gameplay mechanics :>

Your friend is a borderline-autistic adult who rages all the time, so I have my doubts. Well he could be "standardized-test" smart but that's as far as I'm willing to go ;D Nobody cares about being top at HLDM, and that pastebin is just... lol

I'm mentally ill, and that's not a secret for anyone. I even take meds for it.

But my friend is perfectly fine, believe me :)

You don't even now the ammount of practice and the effort you have to give to get as good as him at HLDM or QW.
So what you're saying is pretty disrespectful to him tbh.

There is a difference between this and saying "all top DPS players cheat because they are better than me when I should magically be the best because I spent my youth becoming the best eva at some game with 0 talent pool".

He's not saying "all top DPS players cheat". He's saying "a lot of the top teams players are suspicious and do cheat".

Also, re-read this :

"He's good @ ql and top division (div 0) at QW (and ofc very good at OW)... I can still beat him @ QL (because i play the game for 10+ years and he cba to practice QL, he prefers QW over QL), and rikoll and some other top qw players can beat him @ QW (but games are always close, and he's still able to outaim or win some duels against these top QW players), he's aware of that and doesn't accuse of cheating all the top QW and QL players that can beat him. Simply because he's aware of the fact that some people are playing quake for more than a decade now, so he has respect to those veteran players that can beat him at their own game(s).
That said, if any top QW players or even myself were to play a 1v1 on HLDM against him, we would literally
get owned hard.
And his "pure raw-aim", regardless of the game he is playing, is just one of the best if not the best i've ever seen, and he is a very intelligent dude, he could write a book about "how to aim properly". I have a lot of respect for his raw-aim and his knowledge about aim in general, he has a better raw-aim than me and 98% of the top QW players.
Trust me, when he talks about aim, you just have to sit back and listen, he for sure knows what he's talking about."

lol if you think an Olympic athlete and a Russian who fought in PRIDE (where juicing was practically encouraged) have been clean throughout their careers because they're kinda pudgy. Josh Barnett doesn't seem dodgy either, but he got caught 3 times. Again, very naive hero-worship.

Yeah, for how long now Fedor is doing MMA ? For how long Daniel is doing fighting sports ?
And they still didn't get caught, means that they are clean, as simple as that :>

On the other hand Josh Barnett got caught 3 times, so you, he cheated, unlike fedor and daniel, as simple as that.

there are tons of people who have the right attributes to become elite fighters and don't partake in the sport, simply because it's a fringe sport with very little recognition/exposure [...] It is evident that there's a good chance that someone better than GSP/Silva would've popped up if the popularities were flipped..

You seem to be obsessed by "more popular = better fighters than the current top".
Anderson has been practicing combat-sports for like more than 27 years now... Dunno about GSP but i guess that he started early aswell.

They're already professional athletes with professional training and passion for their sport, even if the sport had like 30 billions fighters, they would still remain the best, trust me.

There is no talent pool in combat sambo lol.

Stop with this 'talent pool" bullshit already, pls :D

And Picking DC just solidifies my point: this guy can start MMA extremely late and still become one of the top fighters. What does that tell you about the quality of competition?

DC is one of the best at MMA now not because the quality of competition is bad, but because what he has been practicing before going full MMA-fighter can be transfered into MMA technics/tactics, especially if he's fighting on the ground.
What i mean is that most of the top MMA fighters already had/have a long experience of combat sports in general.
MMA = Mixed Martial Arts, I think it's self-explanatory.

http://esreality.com/post/2829639/re-what-s-w...pid2829639
http://esreality.com/post/2829639/re-what-s-w...pid2829645

Blizzard > mentally ill rager

So you agree with me that if there were only 100 players in OW you would put the 1st one in his own tier :>

And i'm not sure if your example is appropriate since there isn't 100 characters in OW and the heroes are balanced.
I'm talking about number of players relative to low-med-high-top-toptier players, and you're bringing gameplay mechanics :>

What? I'm astounded that you managed to misunderstand such a simple point so badly. The reason why I said "100" characters is that fighting games usually have way less than that, so I exaggerated the number to emphasize my point. The analogy isn't between heroes in OW and characters in fighting games, but simply to show that tier ranking isn't about shoving the top x % into a single tier. If a game has 10 characters and 1 is way better than the rest, he's in his own tier. If a game has 100 characters and 1 is way better than the rest, he's in his own tier. This is not a "top 10% is top-tier" or some bs, but based on fairness of matchups. Likewise, a vastly dominant team is in its own tier regardless of whether the playerbase is 10 (like HLDM) or 10000000000000000000.

boo hoo you're mean to my rager friend he's the best eva at HLDM

When I was a kid I invented this game with my friends. It was a little bit strange, but great fun!
Kinda like football, except we played it with a rugby ball on ice. My m8 was the best out of 15 kids, but talent pool is meaningless right? He even trained 2-3 other talented kids at this super-hard sport over the years but none of them beat him, so he is clearly a 1/10000000000 genetic anomaly. When he watches real football he complains that the players must be wearing rocket-powered shoes because they're all faster than him and are way more accurate. I have to agree, after all he even wrote a book on the art of iceball and was the best "pure goal scorer" in my entire neighborhood. Strangely enough, nobody takes him seriously :E

;D

Yeah, for how long now Fedor is doing MMA ? For how long Daniel is doing fighting sports ?
And they still didn't get caught, means that they are clean, as simple as that :>

On the other hand Josh Barnett got caught 3 times, so you, he cheated, unlike fedor and daniel, as simple as that.

You can't be this naive, surely? http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/sli..._image.png 100% natural bro since he was never caught and even spoke out against cheating! And Fedor was such a chill guy, no way he'd cheat, right? And I mean DC is just a family man, no way he'd cheat like that scumbag Jon Jones, right? If you believe any of this, then perhaps we should have this convo again in a couple of years when you've gained a bit more understanding of modern sports.

Ask yourself this question: Why is it telling that JBJ and Brock only got caught for their PCT drugs and not the actual steroid? You do have the knowledge to answer this question, right? And if you do, it should be completely obvious why you are wrong about testing even in the USADA era.

Stop with this 'talent pool" bullshit already, pls :D

DC is one of the best at MMA now not because the quality of competition is bad, but because what he has been practicing before going full MMA-fighter can be transfered into MMA technics/tactics, especially if he's fighting on the ground.
What i mean is that most of the top MMA fighters already had/have a long experience of combat sports in general.
MMA = Mixed Martial Arts, I think it's self-explanatory.

Since you are unable to understand simple things, maybe solving a simple series of exercises will help:

1. Which division is the weakest, skill-wise (men only)?
2. Which division is the weakest. talent-wise (men only)?
3. Historically, which divisions have been the most "difficult"?
4. Which division's champion is not even a full-time professional athlete?
5. Are there more average-sized men or 6'3+ big guys in the world?
6. Is there much incentive (financial or otherwise) for big athletic guys to go into MMA in the USA?
7. Compare the quality/skill of athletes in the NBA compared to pretty much any other country, and discuss the popularity of basketball throughout the world.
BONUS QUESTION: How many HLDM players are there currently?

I am not doing your homework for you, but hopefully this will allow you to understand simple statistics instead of succumbing to magical thinking.

You don't have to reply, because I think I'm done. I have my 10 posts so I don't need admin approval anymore (I think?) and I'll be able to post when Qcon games are on. Ty :>

It's quite strange that you seem to be aware of how drugs usage (steroids and al) are used by almost every professional sportman (even in sports where there is actually no fame, nor money to win), and are yet unable to admit that the same cheating phenomon is appearing in the (new coming) so called "e-sports".

Just so you know, already in the early 2000's when there was almost nothing to win at lans, some people didn't hesitate to drug themselves (mostly amphetamine) to boost their reflexes.

Now, note that when you have big teams whose purpose is to eventually sell t-shirts, mices and keyboards, there are very good reasons to suspect them to be nothing else than cheating organization. I'm quite convinced that this is exactly what EnvyUs and C9 are (googling C9 + cheater leads quite a lots of results in many different games by the way). I also have no doubt that this kind of cheating organizations will be predominant in the future if there is no will to fight it.

That's where the real problem belongs: who really wants to fight cheat, when it makes unexperienced players (like the one you clearly are) dream and allow tourney organizers, cheating organizations, and game developpers to make money over it ?
Also, can you imagine the disastrous image it would sell ? Just think of drugs usage in cyclism, and how far cheating went there (up to hide motors in bicycles).

Truth is, nobody really cares or is respectful for skill itself, because it's not something that can be judged or understood easily. Most people just want to get entertained, and that's where cheating is something quite valuable: it allows to sustain a non boring show by making it more and more impressive over time, which will eventually contribute to the above money-cycle.

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you aimbotting noob? I’ll have you know I graduated top dueler out of all 9 HLDM players, and I’ve been involved in numerous ranked matches against pro cheaters, and I have over 3000 hours on Soldier76. I am highly trained in irrelevant games and I’m the top aimer of my entire IRC channel. I will wipe you the fuck out with hitscan the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with aimbotting in ranked matches? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting Blizzard and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the banwave, maggot. The banwave that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your pro career. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you on over seven hundred HLDM maps, and that’s just with my crowbar. Not only am I extensively trained in hitscan aim, but I have access to your entire twitch VODs and I will use them to their full extent to ban your ass off the face of the comp scene, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “hidden” cheating was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have deleted your fucking hacks. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn scrub. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking banned, kiddo.

Where are the references to my godlike moves ? Yes, I'm actually by (very far) the "best movers" with QW/HLDM physics. Check for yourself https://www.youtube.com/user/1212testmicro (or on my hitbox page too)

Error: The target user can't receive judgements

Blizzard > mentally ill rager

He's perfectly fine. And he doesn't play for the money, unlike most of pros. And Blizzard is driven by money aswell...

but simply to show that tier ranking isn't about shoving the top x % into a single tier.

But it's actually how it works as you don't seem to understand.

If a game has 10 characters and 1 is way better than the rest, he's in his own tier. If a game has 100 characters and 1 is way better than the rest, he's in his own tier. This is not a "top 10% is top-tier" or some bs, but based on fairness of matchups

top-tier =/= only top1 as you don't seem to understand. Otherwise if we put just 1 team or 1 player in his own tier above everyone, then where is the competition ?
Sure we can still say that this or that team is better than this or that other team, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still both in top-tier.
Tiers are not defined by a specifical dominance of team X or Y, but based around top 10%-50%-100% and so on, depending on the number of players. And you don't seem to agree with me on that point, which is :-/
If you put someone like Fedor for example, in his own tier, that would just be stupid. He's not on his own tier, he's just THE champion, he is the best of his own tier (top-tier including many other fighters like Mirko Cro Cop etc), that's all, as simple as that.

When I was a kid I invented this game with my friends. It was a little bit strange, but great fun!
Kinda like football, except we played it with a rugby ball on ice. My m8 was the best out of 15 kids, but talent pool is meaningless right? He even trained 2-3 other talented kids at this super-hard sport over the years but none of them beat him, so he is clearly a 1/10000000000 genetic anomaly. When he watches real football he complains that the players must be wearing rocket-powered shoes because they're all faster than him and are way more accurate. I have to agree, after all he even wrote a book on the art of iceball and was the best "pure goal scorer" in my entire neighborhood. Strangely enough, nobody takes him seriously :E

Cool story bro :>
But your example is a bad one because back in the day HLDM was even more popular than CS beta or even 1.2 1.3 version.
Also, HLDM is a game with a very high skill gap, and those skills can be easily transferable in many others FPS on PC, including quakeworld and... overwatch.
If my friend were playing HLDM for 6 months, things would have been different, including the way i rate him as a player. But he was playing it for 18+ FUCKING YEARS, 18+ FFS!!! So even if now the game is dead and the number of players never reached the current number of CS:GO players, i let you imagine how you can improve in 18+ FUCKING YEARS, regardless of the popularity of the game. The skills he mastered over the years are undeniable, in 18+ FUCKING YEARS you just can't stagnate, you will improve slowy yes, but surely.
This is what you don't seem to understand. I personally have more respect to someone 200% dedicated to his game even if his game is a "niche" game, and playing it for years and years to try to master it, rather than some random 19 years old kid who's playing 24/7 for 12 months a game with a low skill-ceiling and is on top of that probably using cheats to earn more money and fame.

And by your logic, soccer would be the sport where there are the best athletes of all times, better athletes than in any others sports, just because soccer is the most popular sport in the world.
This is just stupid, don't get me wrong, i like soccer a lot i think it's a good sport to watch at TV and it's very entertaining, BUT, what about the tennismen ? The formula 1 drivers ? Etc... They just deserve as much respect as the soccer players, and are as complete athletes as the soccer players, it's just... Different sports, meant for different people, some people are meant to be soccer players, others people are meant to be MMA fighters etc... THE POPULARITY OF THE SPORT DOESN T DEFINE THE LVL OF THE ATHLETES PLAYING IT <---- please repeat it at least 10 times in your head :>

perhaps we should have this convo again in a couple of years when you've gained a bit more understanding of modern sports.

Yeah so you're the one understanding modern sports the better, good for you, you seem to know everything... Can't wait to have this convo again in a couple of years to see who's wrong :>

Since you are unable to understand simple things, maybe solving a simple series of exercises will help: [...] I am not doing your homework for you, but hopefully this will allow you to understand simple statistics instead of succumbing to magical thinking.

Thanks but i understand simple statistics already. And it's not "magical thinking", it's thinking with the heart even tho i'm heartless :>.
Statistics are statistics, they don't rule everything.

I don't know your games background but considering the fact that you're only 19 years old and you decided to register to ESR only this month, I bet that you never played quake or any true deathmatch/arena fps game, and you're even probably a wannabe pro overwatch player. Please prove me wrong :> thanks.

You don't have to reply, because I think I'm done.

Oops sry, i did it :>

Jeez dude I'm just trying to get you to understand simple statistics, not the geometric Langlands or something. Alright I'm a cool guy, so allow me to spend another 5 mins on your education!

some random 19 years old kid who's playing 24/7 for 12 months a game with a low skill-ceiling and is on top of that probably using cheats to earn more money and fame.

Did AUTISM7 ghostwrite this part of your post? :DD
There is a certain tragic aspect to your friend spending half his life jumping around empty half-life maps, so I understand the saltiness. FeelsBadMan

But your example is a bad one because back in the day HLDM was even more popular than CS beta or even 1.2 1.3 version.

Counter-Strike 1.2: June 30, 2001

See gramps, I'm not sure this is even true. I think that mammoth-hunting was the #1 sport during those highly-relevant pre-historic times

wrt tier lists: Fedor v Cro Cop was a fair matchup (unlike most of his PRIDE career), EnvyUs vs the vast majority of teams you consider "top tier" is not a fair matchup (for now, things can change quickly!). Since you're unwilling/unable to do the simple exercises I provided earlier to help your understanding, here are some EVEN SIMPLER ones:

1. Look up the definition of: Plateau
2. Look up the definition of: Non-linear (wrt progression, i.e. in weightlifting)
3. Look at the EVO 2016 Top8 SF5 results.
4. Did Daigo/Tokido/JWong/etc destroy all the new-schoolers since they have 20+ years experience?
5. What dictates the slope&length of the linear part of the progression curve in individuals (pro-tip: starts with a T)


Your teacher,

regulate, Sauna Chempion 2016*

*Chempionship held in my own sauna, nobody else was allowed in

One day you might understand that what matters is skill (the only absolute thing in video games, and hence the only valuable thing to find there at all) and not fame nor money (or not even "winning", which is highly rules and game dependant), and this would certainly allow you to go much further in life than people with your current way of thinking.

Sad thing is, you're already 19 years old, far from understanding this, and have yet achieved nothing at all in your life, not even at the tiny level of becoming a top skilled guy in some meaningless fields such as a sport or a video game. It is maybe time to start thinking about what actually matters in life, what is a little valuable, and what is pure wank.

PS: I've spent the other half of my life studying, and even obtained a phd in mathematical physics, precisely because of how I approach things thanks to my above understanding of skill. I'm also very confident that people like you are non-achievers, because their motives to do things are only led by their delusional ego and will for recognition rather than curiosity or will to reach an ideal. You'll stay the nobody you always been with such way of thinking, and all the condescending tones you might use won't save you from such fate, unless you really start thinking about the issues above. Gl for your future, you'll need it.

P S Y C H O A N A L Y S I S
S
Y
C
H
O
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Y
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PS: I guess all that time spent on AdS/CFT made you forget your basic statistics! ;D

Alright I'm a cool guy, so allow me to spend another 5 mins on your education!

Actually me friend and me are those that TRY to educate you, not the opposite. I'm 27 years old, my friend is older than me, we both play deathmatch/arena fps games for a long long time now.
What about you ? You discovered "e-sport" with CS:GO ? LoL ? Overwatch ?
Tell us a bit more about your background history.

There is a certain tragic aspect to your friend spending half his life jumping around empty half-life maps, so I understand the saltiness. FeelsBadMan

Even if he did spend half his life jumping around empty HLDM maps, he would still have better movements than 90% of the quake players, because moving in HLDM actually requieres A LOT of skill.
Not even talking about overwatch, where movement skills don't exist at all.

Counter-Strike 1.2: June 30, 2001

See gramps, I'm not sure this is even true. I think that mammoth-hunting was the #1 sport during those highly-relevant pre-historic times

You're only 19 yo, so you can't understand, it seems.

wrt tier lists: Fedor v Cro Cop was a fair matchup (unlike most of his PRIDE career), EnvyUs vs the vast majority of teams you consider "top tier" is not a fair matchup (for now, things can change quickly!)

if it was a fair matchup how comes cro cop never defeated fedor then ? And didn't even ask for a rematch ?
Also i said cro cop just for the example, but i could have said many other names actually, like fedor's brother or even Tim Sylvia only to name them. They're all in top-tier, but fedor is THE BEST in top-tier, NOT on his own tier.

Dear He4rTL3sS,

it is with regret that I announce your removal from my class, due to your inability to complete (or even attempt) the assigned homework questions.

Your ex-teacher,

regulate (top5 iceball player since 2006)

Wtf I was top tracer in EU with 80overall accuracy in ql.

feel free to read that http://pastebin.com/fCvXxqEK (you could add many others). For mendosukaii, this gif on his own is enough to prove he is aimboting https://gfycat.com/GrouchyTepidBovine even to unexperienced players like the one you seem to be.

Now, you seem to believe that the bigger the player pool, the more there exists talented players. That's just statistics, indeed, but what you forget is that you need a long time scale for these "hidden" talented players to eventually express their potential as effective skill, regardless of how a game actually allows them to build it (certainly, CS or TF2 are very bad games to build hitscan continuous aim mechanics, as talented as you might be).

Reality is much more different that your naive thought: in a game played by 10 million of people, you have at least 90% of them that are pure casuals and won't even try to compete. For the 10% left (that is, 1 million base player) who are eventually going to try competitive, top 1% is 10 000 players. Yet, the difference of skill between the top 1% of the top 1% (ie top 100) and a random top 1% guy is as huge as the difference of a random top 1% guy and a random top 50%. That is, most "top 1%" players are actually very bad, and can't compete to high skilled players who built big skills from other games (and for years, if not decades). So, who are these "top of the top" players ? Certainly, people who had the opportunity to build high mechanical skills in other games, which obviously already required that the game itself was allowing you to build them.

Let me insist once again: skill takes time to build, and only arena FPS like quake or HLDM are actually allowing people to build it without a fictive cap, especially when it comes to hitscan continouous aim mechanics (say, lg). You don't become a top aimer or a top dodger (or both) in 6 months. Not even in one year, you need at least 3 to 5.

Let me also claim that the highest skilled players often come from "duel" games (whatever duel means, it can be CA or duel). Why is that? Simply because there is no way to compensate for your lack of mechanical skills by gameplay skills like teamplay, team awareness, or even getting carried by your mates.

Now, even top duelers in QL are far from the top CA players in terms of mechanical skills (say for move, dodge, hitscan aim, or even rocket skills) because the contribution of mechanical skill to win a duel in quake is relatively poor with respect to all the gameplay skills (timing, map control, and not dying). Proof is, any good dueler is able to win against a "bad" aimboter in duel, which shows how the lack (or difference of) mechanical skill gets compensated by gameplay skills.


PS: if you believe that quakelive players are the only good players in terms of mechanics, feel free to look at some of my movies here http://www.hitbox.tv/aimer7, or at rikoll's stream there https://www.twitch.tv/rikoll

Looks like I hit a nerve with the 30+ comment... sorry fam, we all grow old eventually :'(

https://gfycat.com/GrouchyTepidBovine

Already seen that Mendo gif when you posted it on /owg/. The pastebin is a list of streams and some "confidence level" that may as well be binary, followed by some verbose rambling...

Now, you seem to believe that the bigger the player pool, the more there exists talented players (...) Yet, the difference of skill between the top 1% of the top 1% (ie top 100) and a random top 1% guy is as huge as the difference of a random top 1% guy and a random top 50%.

This is trivially true in a lot of fields... keep it concise grampa

what you forget is that you need a long time scale for these "hidden" talented players to eventually express their potential as effective skill (...)
Let me insist once again: skill takes time to build, and only arena FPS like quake or HLDM are actually allowing people to build it without a fictive cap, especially when it comes to hitscan continouous aim mechanics (say, lg). You don't become a top aimer or a top dodger (or both) in 6 months. Not even in one year, you need at least 3 to 5.

It's not very convincing to just throw out arbitrary numbers for things. Your entire judgment is based on a tiny sample size of players in a game with ~0 monetary incentive. Young, truly talented players might be able to develop strong aim playing 10 hours/day since the beta and you are panicking because you're facing true talent for the first time. So naturally your first reaction is to cry "cheat" every time.

[rambling about mechanical skills in CA]

um okay...

I think you're just old tbh, the young/hungry players will eat you alive eventually. The winter is coming, sorry senpai your povdmm4 skills will only take you so far.

PS: You were the guy crying hax in chat after Linkzr killed you with fairly unremarkable widow shot a couple days ago right? It's not healthy to be that frustrated at 30+ years old m8

Are you aware that for years, HLDM has been a game played by million, and that there used to be thousand of people playing its "competitive" counter part AG? There was basically 9 division for 4on4.

Are you aware that the same is true for quakeworld?

If you really believe that one can develop amazing aiming skills in less than 3 years, in random games with huge cap skills, you're simply showing how ignorant you are. This is a typical reaction of a bad player that is dreaming, and that will always support (cheating) outsiders by imagining that it could have been him. Thing is, that's not how things work.


By the way, I would be very happy (and impressed) to see someone who could outaim me hard. I'm a guy who tried to teach as much as he could to talented young players the good ways to aim, with the expectation that they eventually reach much higher aiming skills than I did/do. Yet, even thought I've allowed some people to reach quite high aiming skills after 2 or 3 years of training and coaching, none of them eventually outaimed me. Should I believe that I'm a bad coach, or that these players aren't talented enough ? Or maybe, you're the delusional guy ?

PS: regardless of him cheating or not, some behaviour are typical of cheaters. You start byt picking some hero that is perfectly workable with such team composition, but are getting crushed hard. You switch on some hitscan heroes like widowmaker, and instantly HS everyone and carry the game. Why wouldn't you use this hero more often if you're so good with it? Why is this phenomenon repeating itself with all the guys i'm accusing of cheating? See for example how tviq switches from phara to tracer, every fucking time he is starting to get crushed in KOTH maps.

Now, for a guy as experienced as I am, to recognize an aimbot is fairly easy (even there https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1u4dc...e_aimbot/, can you spot the aimbot?. Mouse motion is typical, reaction time is typical, being able to full stick in impossible situation is typical (like, you're being dominated in terms of positionning or dodge/movement, and manage to full stick one of the hardest thing ever, quite consistently), target switches are typicals, full sticking regardless of your own dodge pattern is typical, and so on. The problem is, ignorant guys like you aren't ready to accept that one has to be a top aimer to understand aim and recognize aimboters. There are things you will never be able to see if you never been good, and there is no way for people like me to share my (mostly intuitive) understanding of aim in just 1 day.

So you were that guy crying in chat gramps? Seems to be quite frequent from you, and it's hard to take emotionally unstable people too seriously :(

Are you aware that for years, HLDM has been a game played by million, and that there used to be thousand of people playing its "competitive" counter part AG? There was basically 9 division for 4on4.

Are you aware that the same is true for quakeworld?

"Competitive" scenes with 0 money that died >10 years ago, when gaming was way less popular and competitive gaming even moreso. Yeah gramps I'm sure that's a real hotbed for true talent.
Seems like a case of...

http://i.imgur.com/p014g28.jpg

What the fuck are you speaking about ? I can accuse someone of cheating without any emotion involved, you know ? Do you know what is a fact to begin with ?

Dunno buddy, you are 30+ years old and whine in pretty much every comp game (team and all chat) like a little kid. See the tviq vod posted above where he wrecks you and you'll understand why you're a laughing stock lul. I'll give you a pity +, maybe you'll feel better now.

EDIT: Error: The target user can't receive judgements. Seems like it's not your day :(

are you assuming that people's skill is based on the game they come from? Are you really that naive? Quake players aren't superhumans.

are you assuming that people's skill is based on the game they come from?

in the case of coming from any deathmatch games to overwatch, yes.

in the case of coming from any deathmatch games to CS:GO, no, at least not at 100% (maybe 40-60% because both are FPS, and you aim with the mouse and move with the keyboard etc).

in the case of coming from a MOBA to OW, no, obviously. (that's why i also suspect the top player called "Bromas" to be cheating)

You know Quakers haven't won a single OverWatch tournament, right?* All defeats. The so called superiority is not there.

*seems like winz won something but I can't find what. Assuming he did win, still that's one tournament out of 100,000.

You know Quakers haven't won a single OverWatch tournament, right?

winz did and teamliquid ended up 2nd at some major event can't remember the name

but anyways quakers don't play with quake players only, they play with players coming from many different games and sometimes.... even with cheaters :>

Still that's only one tournament, out of thousands so far. What happened to Quake's so called superiority, if they can only win one tournament?

The thing is, if we go by your argument, then if TF2 players have won ... well, more than one tournament, then TF2 players > Quake players. And if Korean MOBA players have won more and more important tournaments than only one (they have already including LANs in stadiums), then MOBA players in FPS games > Quakers.

What you are not getting is that they are all different background games. None is really superior than the other as experience for playing new games, because in all the inputs and rules are similar (it's not like going from basketball to soccer), and at the end of the day what matters is the deliberate practice in the new game. Maybe your thoughts are because you overrate the importance of aiming in QL to absurd levels, putting it over aspects such as...thinking.

BTW, do you have a link? TBH I haven't seen any proof of that so far. Maybe someone here started it out due to winz' photo.

Still that's only one tournament, out of thousands so far.

thousands ? We're not following the same overwatch then :). So far there has been only 2 major lan events, the rest is just online tournaments ala zotac cups.

the only next big event that will happen is the ESL tournament with 100.000$, and that's all basically.

What happened to Quake's so called superiority, if they can only win one tournament?

They win the tournaments that matter the most (especially winz).
But anyway there is so many cheaters in this game that it's hard to tell who is legit or not.

what doesn't tell you that this bromas guy is playing 10h a day since the beta came out? Playing with all the heroes... that's more skillfull than using 1 gun in a flat map with no pickups bro... You understimate how useful is a moba to help you understand where to position yourself in a map... how far from some heroes, when and where to strike, etc... NOT to mention that moba's level of teamplay can be quickly translated into OW...

I think you're just thinking that mouse tracking is the peak of the skill when the truth is that not even in quake the best aimer of the world wins... it's rather about positioning + "choosing when to be agresive and when not to", mixed with the heroes and abilities... well, I think that bromas guy probably got the hang of the aim in less than a month.

You understimate how useful is a moba to help you understand where to position yourself in a map...

I'm not talking about teamplay, just pure aim (which is all about with some heroes that bromas is playing). Even with 10h/day he would need at least 3 years to reach the lvl of aim of a pro CS:GO player or a very good Quake player.

And tbh i'm not even sure if the teamplay in mobas helps THAT much for the teamplay in overwatch, because:
1) in a game like lol you have a minimap and you see the whole action from above
2) the "choke points" are different in lol and in ow. Basically in OW there's only 1 spot where the action happens, while in lol it can happen almost on the whole map (i mean the fights/melee)
3) it's easier to focus on teamplay in lol considering the fact that you don't need any real "combat-skills" or high APM (like in starcraft), all you need is perfect understanding of yours and your team m8s heroes, and press a button at the right time

Playing with all the heroes... that's more skillfull than using 1 gun in a flat map with no pickups bro...

most top players rarely play with all the heroes, usually they have 1, 2 or 3 (at maximum) different heroes to play with and learn.

it's not more skillfull than using 1 gun in a flat map with no pickups, because anyway most of the heroes don't requiere any real combat-skills abilities, but rather perfect understanding of how the hero work + teamplay, i mean support heroes or tanks heroes.
Actually only the offensive heroes requiere good mouse aiming, oh and the snipers heroes too.

And it's not because there are more things to learn in a game that it makes it more skillfull. Actually what it does is that you will either be only good at all the aspects of the game or maybe try to master 1 aspect of the game with sacrificing some of the others aspects.

It's like saying that chess boxing requiere more skill than normal boxing.

I think you're just thinking that mouse tracking is the peak of the skill

mouse tracking aswell as movements done with the keyboard/mouse (dodges and moving from A to B) is what i call true combat-skills.

when the truth is that not even in quake the best aimer of the world wins... it's rather about positioning + "choosing when to be agresive and when not to"

it depends, look at toxjq domination @ quake 4 and quakelive TDM. Look at cooller, he always had one of the best combat-skills you could imagine.
Look at Vo0 or rat, both very good "combat-skills players".
Paradoks, bulat in quakeworld were both very good aim/dodge players. Rikoll is pretty impressive too.
But ofc i know that duel or even tdm is not ALL about combat-skills, it's balanced, you need a minimum of combat-skills + what you said already.

I think you overrate how much time it is needed to be able to pinpoint a mouse cursor into something on the screen.

Further, in OW aiming well is quite easy, because characters move slowly, the hitboxes are huge, the netcode is forgiving and most maps are flat with closed range fights. From a execution point of view, any kid can compete with the pros.

Plus, differences in the execution level don't matter as much as in other games. It's not like say SCBW, QW or Smash Melee. In OW the skill differences are mostly about being the better team player, rather than hitting 5% more.

I think you overrate how much time it is needed to be able to pinpoint a mouse cursor into something on the screen.

I think you underrate how much time it is needed to be able to pinpoint a mouse cursor into something on the screen.

In OW characters move really slowly,

no, they move at normal speed, but ground accel is infinite. And some characters like d.va or soldier76 or tracer move quite fast actually.

From a execution point of view, any kid can compete with the pros.

From a execution point of view, any cheater can compete with the real pros and dedicated FPS players.

They all move and dodge slower than in any Quake. Which isn't praising your experience, because Q3/QL speeds are not really fast to begin with. With Lucio's boost it's quite funny tho.

You are overrating how many cheaters there are in OW. I mean, we can't really tell as of now, but I have yet to see something obvious, in-game and in Youtube/Twitch.

So far, "the real pros" in OW have been the MOBA players, from Korea. Watch their tournaments and their solo plays on Twitch: they are on another level. Guess the experience of 20 years of playing FPS games didn't matter much at all for playing OW.

They all move and dodge slower than in any Quake.

no they don't. Max movement speed of most heroes is ~300-320ups, soldier can run faster, tracer has teleport.

and ground accel is infinite in ow means that fast left/right is more effective than in quake.

So far, "the real pros" in OW have been the MOBA players, from Korea. Watch their tournaments and their solo plays on Twitch: they are on another level. Guess the experience of 20 years of playing FPS games didn't matter much at all for playing OW.

and what major lan event(s) did they win ? they didn't play the europeans or americans either, so until then, you can't say that they are on another level.

I don't have the OW values (do you?), but I have footage. Clear difference in which it's easier to hit and to dodge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K0f71j4iTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkwEQfMcqZA

And that's QL vs OW. QL is the easiest Quake to aim in, by far, so that in QW, Q2, Q3 and Q4 the difference broadens,

Compare Korean LAN finals (any of them) vs anything on GosuGamers from Europe or America. Clear difference. Well, or any top Korean player streaming on Twitch versus say Cooller.

QW ground accel is slower than in ql/q3/q4/reflex. And it's actually "easier" to aim because of super-strong weapons with insanely high knockback etc.

BUT, quakeworld is more aim heavy than ql actually is, because in ql you can dodge more compared to QW.

QW vs QL is like QL vs OW.

Does this look slower to you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0EG4TfCf2U

by slower i don't mean bunny-hop vs strafe-jump, because obviously bunny-hop allows for more agression/faster moving from a point A to a point B.

but in reality QW is not as fast as people think it is, cause like i said, considering the fact that the weapons are insanely strong and you die so fast, sometimes you have to slow-down the pace of the game.

and hitting someone that is moving at 900ups linearly is easier than shooting someone in front of you doing left/right/left/right strafes ala cooller, because his trajectory is more predictable when he's moving by jumping. And again, with the powerfulness of the quakeworld weapons, if you keep bunny-hopping endlessly you'll get crushed by any good player.

It's faster in every direction. Video > words.

words > video.

You're comparing two movies with different fov. The first one is clearly fov 120+, while the second is fov 103. The impression of "high speed" you have while watching the first movie is a simple consequence of the fov, and not at all because quakelive is faster than OW.

If you could put OW in fov 120, you would be impressed at how fast and hard it is to actually hit a guy who knows how to dodge properly there, or even a simple tracer or genji.

I played QW too by the way, and even thought the ground speed is faster there, the game is much slower because of the relatively "high" friction compared to overwatch. QL is probably the slowest of all, but the hitboxes there are really small (as small as OW probably), which makes it harder to hit than in QW.

"So far, "the real pros" in OW have been the MOBA players, from Korea. Watch their tournaments and their solo plays on Twitch: they are on another level."

Do you even play Overwatch? If so, whats your skillrank? Because it sounds like you dont know anything about it.

Ive watched the asian teams, the korean teams play each other, and it was clearly not as good as the skills of euros/americans.

As a top ranking euro ow player (some boasting allowed right?) i have to concur.

out of curiousity, whats your rank?

77

noice!

Color me jelly :(

now down to 74 due to playing drunk, with a drunk team, doing drunk things - good times :)

Overwatch can and WILL make you rage. It's a very frustrating game at times but you can rank up with a few things in place.

To rank up try the following:

i/ play quick play and use mic, get friendly with those that use a mic and add them to friends list, if they are good add them, get a min of 12 of these people on board as people sleep, work, are not online etc etc - never NEVER NEVER play comp as solo queue hero with 5 randoms that don't use mic, dont change/adapt hero wise or dont have a decent grasp of your language.. yes yes English is best for euro scene but if you are french and find 12 other french guys with comms then all the better.

ii/ don't be afraid to delete players from friends list that cannot adapt in a tough game

iii/ learn at minimum: 3 offence character, 2 defence, 2 support + 2 tanks

iv/ play a lot of games in with your newly acquired 'friends' in a premade all on comms with other premades with comms = better win ratios/experience then anything...but be prepared/be willing to delete players that cannot adapt - be ruthless. Try 3 in your premade, try 4, try 5.... dont expect to win much in a full 6 premade on your 1st day together... you WILL get stomped.

v/ review your stats for each character and compare with pros... if you like a character but suck at them, practice them in a safe 'play versus AI environment or quick play'

vi/ repeat 1-5

This advice has helped a friend of mine rank up from elo hell of SR37 to SR56 in 2 days (yes he got mad, then got serious, then got progress)

tbh overwatch is my turn my brain to zero and relax game, I mostly play it IRL friends. Like you said, the game has too much things that frustrate me when I tryhard. I'd basically like to be high ranked in OW without doing any of the work only to satisfy my quaker ego :D

Sounds good to me mate, playing with IRL mates without taking it too seriously is the way to go man. Peace.

UPDATE:

I uninstalled... this game is trash - unbalanced trash - it's pretty and gorgeous graphics wise but absolutely trash to play.

I recommend trying Doom 4, single player. It's gorgouser and not absolute trash.

me and my 13 year old brother are both above rank 70 with less than 50 hours played
game is pretty easy tbh

TwiQuE is not cheating. He streams alot and plays on Rouge with winz. Not only that he did just as well on lan. Can't really believe you are actually serious about this one.

Edit: same with iddqd, do you really believe them to be cheaters? It's their job, do you really think they could hide it from their competitors and organizations? Watch their streams. Nothing really godlike, but they are cypher class for sure. Watch cooller/cypher stream and compare.

TwiQuE is not cheating. He streams alot and plays on Rouge with winz. Not only that he did just as well on lan. Can't really believe you are actually serious about this one.

Do you realize that with today's cheats it's still possible to stream and even play LAN without getting caught ? Look at the CS:GO drama some months ago about fnatic (not only fnatic btw) players cheating at LAN and winning the tournament(s)...

And playing with player X or Y never means that you're unable to cheat...

It's their job, do you really think they could hide it from their competitors and organizations?

Being their job actually makes my statement probably even more true. When there is a lot of money involved, you can be more tempted to cheat.
Look at real life sports, Usain Bolt, Lance Amstrong, Jon Jones, and some tennis players that use alcohol to stay more relaxed and focused and feel less pain while playing their games.

And, take a look again at CS:GO :)...

Nothing really godlike, but they are cypher class for sure.

cypher is a top player now in OW but still nowhere near their level, trust me. My friend played against cypher and tviq and he said cypher is much much worst than tviq (and him).

"Nothing really god-like" ? Then we didn't watch the same streams ^^, and my friend accusing them is noob...

Ye well, agree to disagree then. My opinion on the TwiQuE-cypher comparison is that they have the same level of aim, but TwiQuE is just on another level overall, which is not surprising knowing he comes from a team game background while cypher is a dueler.

heartless is just mad cuz he cant get good in Overwatch, I reckon

Here TwiQuE plays against heartless friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXLrGp6YOJE

Plus me if you think that Heartless is a dumb fag

"Registered: 26 Mar 2015 "

"Description:
Professional Shitposter."

"Registered: 30 May 2006"

"Description:
Professional 1300 elo player who cries about cheaters in every game he plays"

"Registered: 26 Mar 2015 "

"Description:
Professional Shitposter."

"Registered: 30 May 2006"

"Description:
Professional 1300 elo star, one whos not very bright"

you should really stop your obsession with elo lol

You are right, I should start making more fun of you again instead of your lack of skill

but who are you ?

Are you trying to find a way to turn this around?

Well if you wanna follow this route... I pissed on you in 1v1 ca on hells gate/thunderstruck within the first months that I touched Quake, back in 2012 or so.
Is that answer enough for you why I feel the need to make fun of you when I see how much shit you post here? :D

Well if you wanna follow this route... I pissed on you in 1v1 ca on hells gate/thunderstruck within the first months that I touched Quake, back in 2012 or so.

yeah sure, keep lying on top of that.

you're just a bad troll to me that's all. You will never reach the lvl of trolling i had back in 2012-2013, but keep trying m8

hf

"You will never reach the lvl of trolling i had back in 2012-2013"

Trolling as in posting pictures of your sister, threatening people, raging on everything and crying about your most personal mental issues?

You Sir are a master troll !

lol, things are starting to make more and more sense!

Actually I used to feel bad for him, back when he made journal entries here talking about his mental problems and his medication, but the guy is actually a proper idiot and hes never afraid to show it.

yeah sure because you must really be an awesome guy with a great life and on top of that you're very popular amongst the ESR community... not!

I'm probably an idiot yes, but what you don't seem to realize is that we are in the same boat. Because you're an idiot too, especially considering the fact that you always lurk my threads and try to trash-talk me or say bad things about me.

Guess that my 2012-2013 trolling/attention whoring worked on you too then :>

Trolling as in posting pictures of your sister, threatening people, raging on everything and crying about your most personal mental issues?

yes exactly, it's called attention-whoring, shameless trolling :)

As in posting pictures of your sister, threatening people, raging on everything and crying about your most personal mental issues?

shameless trolling dude

it's an awesome feeling :D

Posting pictures of your sister, threatening people, raging on everything and crying about your most personal mental issues?

yes ! :D

Pictures of your sister, threatening people, raging on everything and crying about your most personal mental issues?

ahahahah ;D

i'm drunk as fuck sry m8

No problemo

it's just that you don't understand next lvl of trolling/attentionwhoring.

When you ask someone in the quake community who heartless is, he will answer you "i know him, ofc" in a good or bad way. If it's in a good way, good for me, if it's in a bad way, good for me too, as long as i get their attention and people remember me.

My trolling was just shameless, as you don't seem to understand, and was made on purpose to make people react, to not keep them being indifferent concerning myself.

And actually it worked, because most of my threads had 150+ replies, and you can't even imagine the ammount of laughs I had while reading and replying to all the comments.

But you don't seem to understand that it was only a "role", and now that role is gone, I'm not trolling nor trash-talking since 2014 or even probably earlier. Right after getting off probation i went instantly to H4x0r popularity (90%+), because people just realized that i did all that for fun and to keep ESR alive, to give people some entertaining things to read, to give people the opportunity to unleash all their rage to 1 guy, and that guy was me.

I don't have anything to hide, especially on the internet and on a niche website that ESR is. You hate or like me, doesn't matter.

So pls, try harder :>

Trolling as in posting pictures of your sister, threatening people, raging on everything and crying about your most personal mental issues?

And guess who's crying in chat LUL

So that explains it.

https://secure.twitch.tv/linkzr/v/78393962?t=02h00m38s

More AUTISM7 chat goodness in this game. Poor guy.

and you're probably one of the worst troll i know.

the reason why i stopped playing ow is because quake champions has been announced already, and i'm 100% looking forward to it.
And it will be pretty similar to QL, so that's why i decided to come back to ql.

You should've known that already (also considering the fact that you're a ESR lurker) if you saw all the threads i made about the reasons why i was playing ow and why i came back to quake....

My advice is play more OW and play more QL - quake chempions is still a long way off...

My opinion on the TwiQuE-cypher comparison is that they have the same level of aim

they don't ;)

tviq's aim is much "better" actually

blizzard's anticheat is a lot stronger than what Q3 and QL ever had

are you sure of that ? What kind of anti-cheat do they use ?

unseen from NL is cheating, everyone knows that but he is still not banned, despite beein reported several times here. http://qlstats.net/player/29427#overall

btw there is another unseen from DE but this one is not cheating, i belive he is around 1300 rating. http://qlstats.net/player/32459#overall

Btw, just checked qlstats top 10 CA players, this top 5 Kram guy, if he is the one that was playing before Steam, is 100% cheat too. He was barely at 1.8k prior to Steam. Tho i never played him since Steam so maybe he farm elo with fake account or what? CA players and their elo, such a nice story :D this one is the typical rail bot with wh and+back, you will never catch him off guard from what i remember. Notice also that he seem be have always been farming on the FEC dedi server.
https://steamid.eu/profile/76561198025259314
http://qlstats.net/player/6113#ca
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198025259314/
You can see that he was online on Steam even today but seem to have not played QL since february 2016. Achived top 5 for braging rights? ;)

-daniel

id doesn't do bans anymore

cba to check this person out, but either he needs to be vacced (cheat needs to be submitted to and detected by vac system) or every server owner in ql needs to account/ip-ban him

that is literally untrue. id or Bethesda or whatever it is has the capability of banning people in steam Quakelive and has made use of said ability.

faceit high elo and master leagues
apart from the semi-pros theres unknown insanely good players witht new accounts 90% winrate on faceit.
they are quite frankly insejn :/

Ahhhh. I hadn't activated Prime on my account. I'd entered the text code without realising there is another step. WOW! Regular matchmaking has gone to the dogs. Prime must be working a bit for non-prime to have gotten so bad.
Hard to see why. Anyone determined enough to hack, to go seek out the hax and risk the ban, surely is determined enough to borrow a friends phone for 30 seconds to get on prime

Seen 1 cheater so far in CS thats is 100% sure cheat, seen 99% of players whining about cheats everytime they die tho. People seem to forget CS is OLD OLD game, expect lot of awesomeplayers coming back all the time.

Same. Hardly saw any. Never even thought to look out for them. There were maybe 1 or 2 in casual games that I couldn't possibly miss cus they were spinbotting. But 2 days and 3 5-man teams of cheats... That's odd. And yeah, I downloaded the demos and I've specced them from several guys' POVs. I haven't had time to watch every guy, and can't be bothered to. But when all 5 guys have the exact same number of hours, and you've seen that 2 are definitely using hax, I guess the other 3 are cheating whether they have hax or not.
Anyways, it's not my place to do any more than just report them. I was just asking if this always happens in school holidays

cslol

sir, did you ever play osp/cpma vq3 with the letters in your name scrambled in a green font?

goodday

*tips fedora*

so much text

SO MUCH Overboring bs..

Playing CSGO? Congrats! You are GAY!

It's even more gay than that. I'm not only playing it; I'm posting on a CS:GO forum. That's very, VERY gay. You'd never do that...would you? It would be SOOOOOO gay. And homosexuality is baaaaad.

Lost 14 games in a row vs premade teams of at least 3 cheaters, beat that.

seriously?

yeah.

karma is a bitch

well, not really

i use hacks on cs

but who does not

lets be real

I don't.

I don't play CS either though.

noob then

Another cheater : xApoW
https://qlstats.net/player/137217#overall http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198312949019/ https://steamid.eu/profile/76561198312949019

Prety standard excuses for using cheats :
use aimbot whenever he think another player is fakenicking or cheating (means he is losing). Usualy when games goes 5-0 and he is losing he start using aimbot on LG and rail.

Other than that there is not many cheaters in QL. Thats the only one we found in like 3 months of play here and there.

Btw lost my esr logins a while back so this is anonymous posting! (i'm Jck0).

xapow is calling everyone a cheater don't bother with him.