oh and also, i want to know Vo0's mouse/dpi/sensitivity :D

https://images-1.discordapp.net/.eJwFwVsOhCAM...eight=1125

Vo0 had this setup for tonights tournament, he posted this image in the chat after tournament.

thanks! :)

but i still don't know his dpi/sens :D

someone in the twitch chat, and i think it was terifire if i remember correctly, said that he's using 1600dpi 1.84 sens or something.... Someone to comfirm that ? :D

vaguely remember he was 20ish cm in reflex

dat sammich

You're one rare boy

If you ask me, somebody who has been playing Reflex almost daily since May 2015, it's because the gameplay in CPM is better. The combat in combination with the movement is smoother and more responsive and feels less random than Reflex. Personally I think it's because the ground acceleration is too high in Reflex and the capsule hitboxes make rocket fights a little random -- I'd like to point out (the latter half of) this opinion is more or less universally accepted in the current testers group and so far the devs have been taking our feedback very seriously and have implemented several of our proposed changes in the experimental ruleset.

Overall, the gameplay in CPM feels more polished. This is especially (and painfully) obvious when you play the unofficial THCT7 port in CPM. THCT7 is the most played map in eu Reflex by far, it was ported by two players with the explicit intention to expose Reflex' flaws. Most (if not all) of the top eu Reflex guys agree agree the map plays better in CPM.

I do still think Reflex has more potential, if only because of the map editor and the fact that it's more accessible (and personally I'm not a fan of the CPM netcode but that's just a matter of taste I guess). Unfortunately, maybe because of the fact that the gameplay still needs work, people haven't really been playing or making new maps lately. I think new maps were the main reason people jumped on the Reflex hype train. Without those, there really is no reason to play Reflex over CPM IMO (if you look purely at the gameplay at least).

this opinion is more or less universally accepted in the current testers group and so far the devs have been taking our feedback very seriously and have implemented several of our proposed changes in the experimental ruleset.

so basically RFLX will be closer to CPM in term of overall feel/smoothness in the upcoming updates ?

Basically the devs are getting feedback from high level players (for instance Kyto, Rama, Profanum, Terifire and lots of other people I'm forgetting right now) and so far they've listened. We'll have to see where that will take the game.

awesome, can't wait :)

would be a shame if reflex dies tbh. I mean the engine is so good, so is the netcode and i like the GFX and.... sounds :)

but if reflex dies and CPMA comes back in development then I guess i'll be fine with it. But imho reflex deserves more <3 :)

Well I don't really like to engage in cpm vs reflex drama but the main point to take away is that they are similar but at the same time different games. Weapon balance, reload time, weapon switch time, air turn speed, knockback system, hitboxes, maps etc. I'm not going to say one is better than the other, I'm only going to tell you to play whichever you prefer.

both games are great tbh... reflex needs to become a real good competitive platform to make cpm completely obsolete:

- Matchmaking.
- Seasons and mappools, would be nice if community voted the best maps of the workshop for each gamemode. Let's say we get a mapppool of 7 maps to be played in matchmaking for a season, randomly.

You enter MM for duel and you get to play against a guy about ur elo in a random map inside the mappool that community voted.

- Proper tutorials with coaching available (meaning you request a coach to ur own server so people can connect to u and explain shit about the game).
- Enemy model different from friendly model.
- Official cups: After every season the top 16/32 players could fight in a playoff to be the best player of the season.
- Textures + modding.
- Gamemodes... try to go for something wild... who knows?
- Co-op gamemodes.


i just hope devs don't miss the point of what implies making a game like this..

I love both i stream both cabragoat on twitch

You keep saying match making is needed but I can't see that happening at all. You need ALOT of players for it to work properly otherwise you would either be waiting forever or still playing people higher/lower than yourself.

we were about 80 players in #cpmduel and you'd see games happening often with a simple bot... matchmaking is needed but obviously it can't be implemented like in other games... for example you can leave it in the background while u play coop bots or random ca match..

And of those 80 how many play regularly? I would imagine it to be around 25%?
Not trying to be an arse, it just seems people talk about match making like it would save these games with small communities when it would be a complete waste of time when the system needs alot of players to work properly anyway.

IMO it would work only if dev team included all the competitive features when the game leaves Early Access, all of them at once instead of releasing each feature per month, keep that super secret or something... then promote the game a little bit... who knows maybe it gets active for a couple of years.


won't happen anyway

I called this was going to happen, the moment the kickstartet was promoted here.

shadenfreude, plus a bit of pride

yeah, what a visionary

Cuz cpm iz betta

they are pretty similar, the differences are really pretty small, things like wallclipping, movement being a bit more slippery, the damage output is a bit higher and the weapon balance has something for everyone, with strong rockets, strong shaft and strong rail.

other than that i think cpm is really starting to show its age. the netcode was good in 2005, but not so much anymore, and its super clunky to get setup.

reflex on the other hand is much slicker, theres more players and i like the fact that its all new maps. its being actively developped and hopefully there will be some awesome new features in the near future.

all it needs is a good teammode and an easy way to play it and i think it might start to attract players other than the super hardcore 1v1ers.

good points!

All new map, cpm22 is still is the best

makes you think...

Lol no it's not. Cpm22 was never that good. It was most popular because it's fun but it has serious flaws. In CPM, the spawns on 22 are hopelessly broken. It's not usual to get 3 or 4 spawn kills in row if you're standing in the right spot. Being 1 atrium map where most of the action passes through, it's heavily rail and spam oriented. It's a very cessy map -- evident from the 5s weapon respawn.

Cpm3a is clearly the best in terms of balance and design for CPM 1v1. For Reflex, Catalyst (t7?) is taking up that role as the main, well balanced 1v1 map. It shares a lot of the same structure as cpm3a but has some unique ideas of its own.

There's more potential in Reflex because the infrastructure of the game is superior being built from the ground up with an emphasis on best possible input and netcode. Right now, it lacks some of the polish that CPM has -- lots of little details that are missing which keep it from feeling "complete".

As it stands, I think I enjoy Reflex more because of the new/interesting maps, netcode, and the race mode. Played CPM for 10+ years and, I guess, just got bored with the same maps and really nothing new happening.

"lots of little details that are missing which keep it from feeling "complete""

Like hitboxes, sounds, models, textures, art direction.


: D

Oh, yea! You're right! There's no hitboxes, sounds, models, textures, or art direction. In fact, the game is just a void. Yep! :DDDDDD

A pretty deep void at that. But I know I'm right since I have eyes and ears.
Hf hitting rockets, plum-plum-plapp-plapp 2 bit sounds, lol models (especially weapons), wtf textures and zero art direction - lacking creativity and artistic sense so much that it's painful. Even Warsow had more spirit.

Lol, ok,... Clearly you're butthurt about something that you have such emotions about a VIDEO GAME that no one is forcing you to play. You must have a real shit time IRL that you come to ESR to spread your malcontent attitude.

Nice argument.


But since you haven't denied (or rather couldn't) my points, you went for personal insults instead.
Didn't expect more to be honest, but at least your reply made it clear who's the butthurt out of the two of us.

You really think those were "points" you made? That there's literally no hitboxes, sounds, models, etc., in Reflex? You were expecting me to refute these obviously, factually incorrect statements you made? Nah... I think it's more helpful for you that I point out you got some personal issues you need to be reflecting on.

I'll return the "favor"; your personal issue is the inability to read comprehensively.

You'll be way more credible if you work on that first before "helping out" others.

New experimental hit boxes for those who don't like the capsule hitboxes: http://forums.reflexarena.com/index.php?/topi...ment-32996

For "plum-plum-plapp-plapp 2 bit sounds", a couple updates ago, the devs included remixed hitsounds so I assume you haven't played in a while (if ever).

The new "add ons" feature allows players to create their own custom soundpacks and easily distribute them via Steam's workshop. You could already use custom soundpacks -- some have been using hitsounds from PK, Q4, Q3, etc. -- but needed to manually go in and change the pak files which has some disadvantages.There's already a few folks, some with professional experience in sound/audio, making sound packs. Here's one example: http://forums.reflexarena.com/index.php?/topi...ment-28616

The devs have not explicitly said so, but I expect there might be some more changes in the future with the hitsounds and audio in general. There's been a few threads about it and the devs have commented a bit. However, there's bigger priorities right now for the devs. A lot of core features that are planned that a reasonable person should be more interested in -- matchmaking, triggers/movers, anticheat, etc..

As for art, I'm not sure what you're on about. The devs have created a few themed mesh packs (Japanese temples, Egyptian, Industrial, and some various others). The game is still ALPHA which, by definition, means that it's still undergoing core development. BETA is when all the polishing and tweaking happens. As of now, there is no unique weapon model for the stakegun. Why? Because who knows if it'll be part of the final game after early development...

Despite this, the devs have created a lot of art assets. All those meshes (must be several hundred available for mappers) and all the weapon models have been revised and updated to look slick, fully animated, and personally I like them all. Especially the new boltrifle. There's also a large range of melee weapons players can use and player model parts (legs, torso, head, arms) which users can customize their player model with. The devs will continue to add these items. There's a whole thread dedicated to this topic: http://forums.reflexarena.com/index.php?/topi...ns-thread/

For textures, I know your line of argument is probably, "No textures? Boohoo! I can't play a video game without textures!" Yadda, yadda, yadda. If textures really is a hangup for you, then I can only laugh at the hypocrisy. If you still play Q3/Q4/QL or use picmip, then it demonstrates how much you want to find an excuse to dislike Reflex. People don't (and shouldn't!) play AFPS for the gfx. If all you want is top end gfx, go play the latest Battlefield or CoD or whatever. That's not what Quake (or AFPS) is about, though. It's about the fucking GAMEPLAY. If you're getting bent out of shape about the lack of textures, you've got your priorities screwed up.

Well, that's a comfortable mentality on the developer side; let the community brainstorm and make custom assets. For the modders, it's good. For the average Joe, not necessarily. Using 5000 ideas from across the globe because we can't take ONE direction.
I would rather appreciate if I wouldn't have to manually modify game files and such to get an audible solution (yes, even in alpha). If that's not a reasonable request (I mean to not going crazy from the plupp-plupp), I don't know what it is. Have proper default sounds before matchmaking and hats imo. True arena shooters won't be super-popular ever again anyways.

No, my line of argument is completely different. I play (lego)Quakes since late '96 and when I do play other (competitive) games on PC (rarely), I still use sub-1024 resolutions and every possible eyecandy off so I can see something from all that shitty bumpmaplensflare - so your comment about GFX-whoring is misguided this time.

What I was on about is the lack of individuality, the lack of SOUL. Which should come across even in alpha and you can't put it in numbers.

Sorry, but for me, the game is an uninspired joke audiovisually (as in annoying and as of now) that tries to feed upon CPMA's legacy. Better netcode, hats and new maps (well, hello Radiant) won't help changing my mind.

Btw how long is this in alpha-state?

For modders, it's fucking awesome. More than that, in this 0.47 update, the developers have also opened up the actual gameplay balances to the community. Testers can specify details like rocket damage, knockback, direct damage multipliers, reload speed, projectile speed, etc. These sorts of variables are available to testers for all the weapons. So instead of ignoring community sentiment on weapon balances and behaviors, they're actually embracing it. That's pretty huge, in my book, and yet you either decide to ignore that fact or don't care?

The developers have already included high quality models, hitsounds, etc..I like the default assets except I do want more from the hitbeeps department (more resolution). However, this can be only a matter of taste -- there's nothing "technically wrong" with the assets. You just have a different personal preference which is why you can download custom soundpacks and the like. That's more choices for you. Why is this is bad thing? You've managed to turn this into a "oh, that's comfortable for the lazy devs" thing which is breathtakingly unfair to them. They had to spend time creating not only the modding functionality, but in a way that can be easily distributed and shared to make it useful for the community without programming experience.

If your line of argument is that gfx isn't an issue, then why does lack of textures matter? Why does the art style bother you? Because of no "soul" (something that is completely undefinable and subjective)? You're completely mistaken in that department but, even if you weren't, what should that matter if the emphasis is (and should be) on gameplay?

KS cancelled in Oct 2014. The game was first made available to the public in Nov 2014. Since then, they've moved the game from 0.26 where basically everything was barebones and now we're approaching 0.50 which, I think, will be the mark from alpha to beta. Updates have been regular -- almost 1 every other month for the past 2 years. And this, a game by 3 guys working in their spare time (while working other full-time jobs), with people like you maligning it and not giving it a fair chance? You know, you could actually support the game, maybe buy the game (if you haven't already), and maybe if more people did that, the devs would be able to spend more time on the game's development.

Also, let's see the laundry list of things that Reflex does better than any AFPS on the market right now: in-game/multiplayer map editor, game engine built from scratch to focus on best possible netcode and input optimization, fully customized HUD/GUI via Lua scripting which can be packaged as "widgets" and distributed via Steam, Steam integration across whole aspects of the game from custom game assets, "widgets"/addons, and maps, vastly enhanced input settings (you can specify the acceleration curve of your mouse input, for instance, within the menu settings), full featured replay editors and map editor built INTO the client itself (no extra files needed, no mods -- it's a one-stop-shop). Anyone making a list of what they want in a top-shelf AFPS title could look at this list and say that's a pretty solid list of features for a game to have.

We are talking past each other.

What does "soul" matter (which I already wrote that it cannot be put in numbers)?
Well, true, gameplay is the most important thing. But NOT THE ONLY one. I don't want to play a feature list but a game that sucks me in with its uniqueness / mood / art style / whatever. Gameplay ONLY is not enough, because something is missing then.

To use a subjective metaphor: if I want to buy a new car, every logical reason points towards to a new model with a smaller engine and high fuel- and maintenance-efficiency. So it's cheap when I stop at the gas station and cheap when some parts need to be replaced. It's a solid product, safe and well-assembled, has many features. But I'll still feel much better when I get out of my C3 Corvette, even if I have to crawl under the chassis for some repairs from time-to-time or I have to pay 2-days work's wage at the petrol stand if I want some late afternoon cruising.

Back to the game; the way I see it now, it's just sterile, not captivating one bit. You say I'm biased, but you are too - try to look it from another perspective; is it captivating for a first-time watcher?

Gameplay matters more than soul, right? I mean, if you had one or the other, you'd pick gameplay, surely?Personally I believe Q3 only obtained "soul" as part of its legacy -- when it first came out, it was new and shiny but it didn't have soul like QW/Q2. It only obtained it over the years from lots of community, tournaments, movies, etc.. And that was all only possible because the gameplay was solid.

I'm not sure that analogy works given that cars are also practical as a means of transportation. You're comparing two different cars -- one for it's practical use and then one for it's pure pleasure. Video games are purely for entertainment/pleasure. How you derive the enjoyment is the question here: Is it the gameplay, the visuals, a combination, something else?

Whether or not I disagree with you about whether Reflex has "soul", Reflex is still in development and the focus should (and has been) on that. Personally, I think it has a unique style and the lack of "soul" you claim is probably due to the fact you have not played it enough.

You ask me to look at it from another perspective (that of a first-time watcher). I do think Reflex is appealing to new players. In fact, it seems like most of the people who play Reflex (which is 3x or 4x the number of active CPM players) are new to the genre. So it must be appealing.

The game looks good. If you have a rig that can run it in HQ with all the special gfx turned up, it looks really good, imo. The lighting/shadows, particle effects, animations, physics (like on the flags, ragdoll), etc., look very crisp, sleek, and high def. The gibbage effects alone are awesome to watch (especially in slow mo).

Reflex currently has some gameplay-specific weaknesses that make it uncomfortable to play:

-the map selection for all modes is lacking. Some of the duel maps show promise but require alterations to make them more balanced or interesting. New features such as the forcefield are yet to be implemented by mappers in a way that opens up new and interesting strategies.

-directly related to the above point is that the rockets and the hitboxes are currently very irritating to play with. The experimental ruleset is currently heading in the right direction with this. The changing ruleset means it's difficult to design maps that will fit the gameplay properly in terms of weapon balance, spawn placement, weapon placement etc.

These are temporary issues that should be resolved in the next 6-12 months if the developers listen to what high-level players are saying about the game. Reflex has an order of magnitude's worth of potential more than CPM and the developers would basically have to give up and stop development for it to fail now.

CPM is a fairly well-polished title that existed in a time of high player activity, has an excellent map selection and gameplay that has been refined over several years of proper development. It's no surprise that people will want to go back to it but that doesn't mean its a permanent change.

I think people will go back to reflex eventually once the development is farther along.

Reflex: Really suck and feel shit

CPM: feel a little nice

Different games. Different communities. Different tastes.

By different communities you mean different part of ESR?

No.

I know other people fall in the same boat as me on this - I'm excited about the future of Reflex, but currently play CPMA because I just enjoy it more. I'm not some oldfag CPMA player, most of my promode time is in Reflex.

They're definitely aware of the hitbox issues with rockets now, so next patch might be the one to reel me back in.

I said from the start that it was a bad idea to just remake cpm with reflex....

Remaking Kwek is a bad idea.
But sometimes you just have to do something retarded. For us, people.

yo bud what is the size of your mousepad

i prefer cpm purely due to how more polished it feels. it satisfies my tastes more than reflex does... but that doesn't mean reflex is a bad game. both are fun for different reasons.

part of the reason i stayed moreso towards cpm is because im also a nostalgic and sentimental cunt

It could be sad if totaly new players to arena fps find reflex and they go from reflex to cpma, i hope this wont happens. LOL

im running a TourneyCPM event soon, but soon after i feel its logical that i run a TourneyFlex event too......i may not play both, but i sure do want to run events in both... hit me up if you got any advice

don't name it TourneyFlex but rather TourneyRFLX :)

but the abbreviation sounds sick...

TFLEX

Should have been called FLEX

ez4cpma