At the moment South Korea rapes team Australia. I wonder how it will look between them and other Euro teams.

I have my doubts about the professionalism of the Australian team that was sent, so I wouldn't use that game as an indication of what's to come in other games with South Korea. I don't think other teams will get destroyed that badly, but I could be wrong.

The mentality of players in Australia is very different to other countries, especially South Korea. I hate to say it but I don't think 'esports' is approached the same way here, it's more of a fun hobby that people do while they're young and living at home or at university.

There has been a handful of exceptions, some standout Australian players in Quake, WC3/SC2 (moonglade) and the CS team has put in some good performance as well overseas but that's about it.

I'm aware of that, but anyway they looked very confident and solid to play around with characters out of meta.

I think it's time we pay attention to this vastly overlooked comment from France Team Captain AlphaCast, who said "Korea is apparently stomping everyone in scrimmage, including Sweden."

which isnt true, finland and sweden also won vs them in scrims, as it was later confirmed

Wha? I went to watch vod russia vs germany and no Cypher? then I went to watch USA vs chile and no id? :(

id is canadian lol, and they lost to spain

id plays for canada

id is not USA nor chilean, cypher isn't russian nor german.

Captain Obvious to the rescue.

“Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers.”
- Voltaire

"When it rains, you get wet."
- Ancient Japanese Word of Wisdom

not that matter at all, cypher was selected for a russian squad, but then he got subbed with another belorussian player Anak

Oh, lol. Thanks.

I saw on reddit that cypher had visa problems. Don't know if that's accurate or not.

He ragequits too much in comp, might have gotten penalised tbh.

Also, he should stop fire up those MJ's on stream..

But yeah, there might be a visa problem, not like he hasn't had those in the past.

btw, link doesn't work.

Use this instead?

https://www.twitch.tv/blizzard

It looks like they have some technical issues with blizzcon website today.

finland > rest

South Korea > All

finland will stomp them :)

edit: on a second thought sweden might have a chance too :) no way i cheer for south korea.

Stomp is a hard word. We'll see :)

I don't really cheer for South Korea either, but I think they'll win the whole shebang.

Probably right. They've grinded the shit out of all the tank characters and this meta favours tanks. Theyre not as good aimers as finland and swe but they'll probably roflstomp just based on ability abuse and coordination

"Theyre not as good aimers as finland and swe but they'll probably roflstomp just based on ability abuse and coordination"

Absofuckinlutely

They take the strategy and teamwork part very seriously, I actually enjoy watching that way more than raw aim. Esp on overwatch, because the game really shines when you have strong teamwork and strategy. If you don't have those things, it's boring to watch, even if you're watching great aimers. Hopefully S. Korea's play will elevate the other teams and maybe even the game itself as the patches come out. Or maybe it could even influence future FPS games that will take OW's gameplay but make it better for competitive.

If someone doubts why OW is superior in terms of a teamplay compared to TDM take a look at this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm5Q6kYQ8yM

And the most epic team play so far in the tournament from Spain wiping out Sweden:
https://clips.twitch.tv/blizzard/SmilingMagpieGrammarKing

It also shows why it's not enough to be skillful to succeed in this game.

What happened?

i dont understand movies.

can you please describe what happened with terms like:
took the mega
waited 15/25 or else seconds before the item spawned
shafted a fucker

this world cup is a joke anyway.

no winz nor akm for team france.

worst lineups than when it's mixed up teams (like rogue or misfits or canadians + americans etc)

shit game that doesn't reward raw aim but rather endless spam and jumps everywhere + team play / coordination / using the ultimates at the right time, and that's all. 21 characters but ony like 6 or 7 playable in competition/tournaments (cause the rest are too weak or don't suit the meta).

it's a moba mixed up with a "FPS" anyway, so don't expect much.

i bet that in 4-6 months mobas players that went to OW, csgo players that went to OW and finally quake players that went to OW will be back to their "main" games realizing that becoming "pro" at this weird hybrid-like game isn't worth it.

people are just playing it cause it's supposed to be the "NEW OMFG AWESOME E-SPORT GAME THAT WILL UNITE PLAYERS FROM ANY KIND OF GAMES!!!!", and blizzard has enough money to support it.
But it's just an illusion, like i said, in 4-6 months the hype will be over.

most pros are playin OW not cause they particularly like the game but more for the competition and money, and they want like to prove the world they're the greatest. Fair enough. Money rules everything anyway.

In my case i rather keep playing ql or reflex or cpm even if the playerbase is small and you don't get much reward (and not even talking about money there) by playing it. I'm still looking forward to QC and diabotical, at least it will be quake-like games at at least 80%, and man, i can't describe how i love quake.

whatever gametype you play, or quake version and derivative of quake you play, it's still like 80+% more fun to play that those hybrid/not balanced/gimmicky games like OW.

At the end only TF2 and shootmania players will keep playing OW.

QUAKE IS LIFE <3

I agree with 1% of your assumptions.

Yet another one that haven't tried the game and judges the game with a total lack of foundation.

OW is fun and it takes skills, if you haven't stumbled upon that you're just a sheep... no offense.

btw: refex, ql and cpm are dead, time to try something else. I played Quake 3 for 8 years, then I switched to QL, but I don't find it fun anymore.

Yet another one that haven't tried the game and judges the game with a total lack of foundation.

I bought the game, played like 60hours of it. Watched multiple streams including those that broadcasted major events with 100.000$ and 300.000$.
Watched cypher cooller winz seagull k1llsen ash tviq surefour etc streams.
I have a friend that played it a lot, and was/is in top50 EU and ranked #1 world with soldier76. And he basically agree with me, he doesn't even want to try-hard or go-pro, he just wanted to show all those "noobs" how the game is "easy" and has many flaws.
Another friend of mine told me winz and akm are not enjoying the game much, and once there won't be money to get anymore they will just stop playing it.

OW is fun and it takes skills, if you haven't stumbled upon that you're just a sheep... no offense.

it's not "skill", it's teamplay and knowing the meta-game and picking the right heroes at the right time etc. I don't call it skill. Skill for me is moving from a point A to a point B, raw aim, and finally dodges. OW movements are retardedly boring, and since most heroes are slow as fuck, when you die, it's hella boring to move from point A to point B and requieres basically 0 skill, unlike in quake where you have strafe-jumping/bunny-hopping or both.

who's the sheep ? The one who plays quake regularly for more than 10 years and keeps playing it even if the game is dead, the one that's a true dedicated hardcore quake player, or those that play a "new" game with lots of gimmicks and gameplay flaws so that all the casual players can be like "oh look, i like this hero, he looks cool, junkrat is so fun, i can spam nades endlessly and make traps or other bullshit.... genji is so cool, he has shurikens and can jump everywhere... hanzo is so cool, i love snipers heroes that can throw 10m wide arrows... I love mercy, healing my team m8s cause i'm unable to aim properly is exactly what i needed... Reinhardt's shield is so fun, that way i can block the endless fucking spamfest of the enemy team for like 10min each game without even fucking aim cause i'm just bad at it..."

btw: refex, ql and cpm are dead, time to try something else. I played Quake 3 for 8 years, then I switched to QL, but I don't find it fun anymore.

They are dead compared to OW ofc, but there's still players playing them regularly and organizing online (and sometimes lans) tournaments.
And unlike you, i have much more fun playing quake or any quake-derivative than OW, by far.

haven't you learned yet? gaming isn't about skill anymore, its about entertainment? ironic for a CA player to be the one preaching about skill though :)

haven't you learned yet? gaming isn't about skill anymore, its about entertainment?

games were always about entertainment. I still find quake or any quake derivative to be entertaining enough for me to keep playing it.

and for example i have nothing against the Champions that they will bring in QC, actually i feel pretty excited about it. And i guess diabotical will also have some new interesting gameplay concepts, so yeah, even more entertaining :). As long as it's at 80% like quake i'm happy :). OW is like at 15-20% like quake :).

And i can enjoy games like reflex even if it's basially cpm-clone. I always liked cpm and even warsow at some point, so i find reflex very nice especially cause of the new engine and the art design.

ironic for a CA player to be the one preaching about skill though :)

Duel is much more strategical than CA, i agree about that. TDM strategies are probably even deeper than duel cause you have teamplay to take into consideration as well as huge maps. But duel, ctf, tdm and CA requiere "raw skill" tho, like aim and dodge, and also moving in general. I even enjoy CTF instagib more than overwatch and find it more skillfull :), less strategical yes, but more skillfull.

If i want a real strategical game i would rather play starcraft 2 or chess, or even Might & Magic Heroes :)

I bought the game, played like 60hours of it. Watched multiple streams including those that broadcasted major events with 100.000$ and 300.000$.
Watched cypher cooller winz seagull k1llsen ash tviq surefour etc streams.
I have a friend that played it a lot, and was/is in top50 EU and ranked #1 world with soldier76. And he basically agree with me, he doesn't even want to try-hard or go-pro, he just wanted to show all those "noobs" how the game is "easy" and has many flaws.
Another friend of mine told me winz and akm are not enjoying the game much, and once there won't be money to get anymore they will just stop playing it.

Fine, you don't like it. Hundreds of thousands of players disagree with you tho. OW is far from perfect, so is Quake... even after 9 years of Quake 3 and 8 years of Quake Live.

it's not "skill", it's teamplay and knowing the meta-game and picking the right heroes at the right time etc. I don't call it skill. Skill for me is moving from a point A to a point B, raw aim, and finally dodges. OW movements are retardedly boring, and since most heroes are slow as fuck, when you die, it's hella boring to move from point A to point B and requieres basically 0 skill, unlike in quake where you have strafe-jumping/bunny-hopping or both.

So you try to tell me teamplay doesn't require skills? You have a pretty shallow knowledge of the game when you really believe it's just to pick the right heroes at the right time. It isn't that easy, that's just a retarded comment. Your perception of skill is hilarious, you forgot the primary skills of all: tactics and brains. All the skills of movement, aim and dodges have zero effect when brain and tactics are left out! You don't need bunny hopping/strafing in OW. Your definition of skills define a defrag player. I suggest you stick to that as you have zero knowledge of what skills really are.

who's the sheep ? The one who plays quake regularly for more than 10 years and keeps playing it even if the game is dead, the one that's a true dedicated hardcore quake player, or those that play a "new" game with lots of gimmicks and gameplay flaws so that all the casual players can be like "oh look, i like this hero, he looks cool, junkrat is so fun, i can spam nades endlessly and make traps or other bullshit.... genji is so cool, he has shurikens and can jump everywhere... hanzo is so cool, i love snipers heroes that can throw 10m wide arrows... I love mercy, healing my team m8s cause i'm unable to aim properly is exactly what i needed... Reinhardt's shield is so fun, that way i can block the endless fucking spamfest of the enemy team for like 10min each game without even fucking aim cause i'm just bad at it..."

You know you sound like a 5 year old that way you argue? I played tons of Quake, I use to love it but after 14-15 years of the same meta I want to try something else, sue me!

They are dead compared to OW ofc, but there's still players playing them regularly and organizing online (and sometimes lans) tournaments.
And unlike you, i have much more fun playing quake or any quake-derivative than OW, by far.

Good for you. I'm sure tick tack toe is fun too, but after 15 years of it you get tierd of it... unless you are crazy. I'll definitely try Champions when it's out, but at the moment Quake is dead as dead and all the good and interesting players are long gone.

Fine, you don't like it. Hundreds of thousands of players disagree with you tho.

yes because those hundreds of thousands are either 14 years old, or casual gamers, or try-hard wannabies pro-gamers, or uneducated players, or just pros that needs sponsors, money and exposure to feel more secure irl. It's understandable, but doesn't change the fact that competitive OW is nowhere near competitive quake or starcraft.

So you try to tell me teamplay doesn't require skills?

No it doesn't. Skill is not strategy or teamplay, skill is the mechanism that you try to perfect with your hands eyes coordination. It can be aim, movements or other things that you have to practice a lot everyday or for a long time to perfect them.
teamplay is knowledge/awareness and experience, rather than "raw skill".

You have a pretty shallow knowledge of the game when you really believe it's just to pick the right heroes at the right time.

I was over-exagerating it, but you get my point anyway (i hope at least :>)

Your perception of skill is hilarious, you forgot the primary skills of all: tactics and brains.

again there, tactic and what you call "brains", aren't skills. For example a game like LoL basically requieres 0 "raw skill",compared to starcraft where you have to be as fast and precise as possible with your hotkeys and mouse while executing your strategies.
LoL is 100% about knowledge/experience/awareness/teamplay and strategy, but not raw-skill.

All the skills of movement, aim and dodges have zero effect when brain and tactics are left out!

I don't think i get your point there. Even if you take out most of the strategical and tactical aspect of a game but you keep movement aim and dodges there will still be people better than others. And you will still need a lot of practice to be the best.

You don't need bunny hopping/strafing in OW.

If they added some sort of movements mechanisms that would take practice to master (maybe to like, 5-6 heroes) I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't break the gameplay at all. Even if it's not bunny or strafe or painkillers movements, some heroes would still benefit from having skillful movements mechanisms.

I played tons of Quake, I use to love it but after 14-15 years of the same meta I want to try something else, sue me!

then keep playing your shitty overwatch game and come back when QC or Diabotical come out :>

I'm sure tick tack toe is fun too, but after 15 years of it you get tierd of it... unless you are crazy.

Do you follow MMA a bit ? For example in this sport Anderson Silva basically spent like 26+ years doing combat-sports and probably 17+ years MMA. Some fighters started at their youth and are still fighting at 40+ years old. When you really love something, you usually don't feel like "man, i'm bored of this game/sport/hobby now". It's called true dedication and passion.

But anyway if you enjoy playing and following/watching OW, good for you, everyone is allowed to play whatever game he wants. But don't tell me OW requieres more skill than quake, because obviously you would be wrong :>

Raw skills for you are: moving from a point A to a point B, raw aim, and finally dodges.

Then there aren't much skills that go into being the best Quaker in history: rapha. He hasn't got the best aim, nor the best movement or the best dodge. Still he is the best. Please explain that!

It's either Quake doesn't require much skills to be the best, or that skills actually include brain and tactics.
Don't for a second say that smart tactics aren't skills. If it didn't require any sort of skill it would be easy and everybody could do it, or maybe you are saying that sort of thing is luck or is he just smarter than everybody else?

Rapah is a living proof that you don't have to have the best aim, movement or dodge. If only those 3 things are called skills to you, what do you call the stuff rapha got? It is simple, it's called skills. Get over it and stop digging your hole deeper! You are contradicting yourself when it comes to what skills are. Skills to you are eye-hand coordination, but there are more things that add up to skills, that being tactics/brain game. What you are saying is that tactics don't require skills. Which is total bs.

Do you follow MMA a bit ? For example in this sport Anderson Silva basically spent like 26+ years doing combat-sports and probably 17+ years MMA. Some fighters started at their youth and are still fighting at 40+ years old. When you really love something, you usually don't feel like "man, i'm bored of this game/sport/hobby now". It's called true dedication and passion.

No I don't follow MMA. It's beside the point if he's been MMA'ing for 20 years. Every athlete do come to the stage in their life when they want to retire or try something else.
You really think 16 years of Quake3/Live isn't dedication to a game? Are you serious? I probably put in more hours and more years into Quake than you. The problem with Quake now is that there are so few players playing the game. So don't try and compare a video game that's basically 16 years old, which very few players play, to a sport that is enjoyed by millions. Are you for real?

But don't tell me OW requieres more skill than quake, because obviously you would be wrong :>

I never said that. You compare apples to oranges. It's a different game. I said it require skills, you claim the opposite, that it doesn't. You over simplify OW. It's more to the game than you have managed to grasp, you just don't see it.


But wtf ever, I'm arguing with a crazy person it looks like.

I agree with your general point, but I think Rapha's movement is excellent. That's how he's able to steal items in clutch situations with Evil or whoever else right in position. Also his raw aim might not be Evil's level or whatever but he's very deadly... look at how many close range shots evil rushed against him in the last final and whiffed. That's because of rapha's prediction, movement and his damage output. Evil wouldn't rush/miss those shots against anyone not on Rapha's level. Also the way Evil played very conservatively, he def respected Rapha's damage output.

exactly this ^

except for this :

I agree with your general point,

:D

My point regarding rapha was that he isn't considered the best aimer or dodger. But when he's on fire, in addition to his mental skills, he is unstoppable for sure.

Then there aren't much skills that go into being the best Quaker in history: rapha. He hasn't got the best aim, nor the best movement or the best dodge. Still he is the best. Please explain that!

and toxjq, and cypher, and cooller. All were/are very skilled players (and cooller is a smart player on top of that).

also read this (again) : http://www.esreality.com/post/2846073/n-a/#pid2846045

Don't for a second say that smart tactics aren't skills. If it didn't require any sort of skill it would be easy and everybody could do it

Where did i say it's easy and everybody could do it ?
But you have to separate 2 things : skill and tactic/strategy. The 1st one includes aim/dodges/movements. The later include positioning/knowing where to start a fight and strategy is self-explanatory.

raw skill is probably harder to master (or at least as hard to master) than pure tactic or strategy. Why ? Basically because it's easier to explain a strategy or a positioning/tactic than to explain how to aim, dodge and move.
It's like, even if you explain to a new player how to aim/dodge or move, he will still need like years and years of practice to reach a point where he starts becoming skilled. While when you explain a strategy/tactic, as long as it's not like 4244262464626262657375 words long (and i think it's pretty safe to say that a game like OW isn't the deepest strategical game ever), you just have to remember it and do it at the right time and you're basically done. That said, it still something you can master but i guess that if quake was only about strategy, it would be boring to watch, and people would rather play real strategy games or even chess :).
But OW is still way less strategical than LoL or starcraft and i even think that CTF and TDM are deeper in that regard than OW (at high lvl of play).

Every athlete do come to the stage in their life when they want to retire or try something else.

Even in soccer/tennis it's not rare to find profesional athletes that still do their sport even when they're like 30+ years old (and they started as kids). I agree tho that it's much more rare to find 35+ yo athlete in those kind of sports, but even when they stop to compete, they're still involved in their sports but in a different way (commentators/coaches/business men still related to their sports, etc). And they're definitely not moving to another sport past 30+ years old.

You really think 16 years of Quake3/Live isn't dedication to a game? Are you serious? I probably put in more hours and more years into Quake than you.

yes, i agree with you, it's called dedication. But i think it's not the right time to leave. Keep supporting your game no matter what. Quake is better than OW in almost every aspect.
That said if you come back to quake when QC or diabo will come out, then i'll say to you "welcome back dude, enjoy!" :D. And it's not forbidden to play whatever game you want, but just don't PLS DON'T tell me that OW requieres more skill/strategy/tactic than quake :>

You over simplify OW

Actually i'm not. You're just in your "hype-train" and basically you don't seem the see the truth because millions players are playing your game and there's a world cup (wohoooho, a world cup!).
Come back in 6 months/1 years and read again the whole conversation, you'll understand that i'm a visionnary :)

But you have to separate 2 things : skill and tactic/strategy. The 1st one includes aim/dodges/movements. The later include positioning/knowing where to start a fight and strategy is self-explanatory.

OK, you brought this upon yourself. Here's what I'm talking about...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_skill-based_game

tl;dr

Online skill-based games are online games in which the outcome of the game is determined by the player's physical skill (like fast reaction or dexterity) or mental skill (logic abilities, strategic thinking, trivia knowledge).

Like I'm trying to tell you, strategic thinking IS part of skills.

Checkmate!
Move on!

You over simplify OW

Actually i'm not. You're just in your "hype-train" and basically you don't seem the see the truth because millions players are playing your game and there's a world cup (wohoooho, a world cup!).
Come back in 6 months/1 years and read again the whole conversation, you'll understand that i'm a visionnary :)

If you're a visionary, you'll see that OW will live past a year and beyond. There were sceptics regarding WoW when it first came out, where are those people now? WoW is still played even after 10 years, it all depends on expanding the game, adding content and giving people something new.
And what's new in Quake over the past 20 years? Not much compared to WoW and OW. The only thing that can save Quake, is Champions. The main problem with Quake is that it is stuck to the success that it gained 20 years ago. Times have changed, games have changed and Quake needs to change. I have faith in Champions, but in the meantime I'll stick to OW as like I said Quake is dead atm.
On a last note, you should read up on the critcs reviews of OW. You'll probably see why OW is so popular. Oh and btw, you're basically a CA player, it is funny, but not surprising that you can't fathom how important tactics is to a team game. I can drop to your level when it comes to arguing...

Hey look at me, I start out with 200 health and 100 armour, all weapons and max ammo. I run to the enemies, kill them(or die trying), 20 sec later the round ends. It takes sooooo much skill.

Yeah, that's some hardcore skills right there, spamming and rushing in.
Compared to OW, that is fucking simple and doesn't require much in terms of tactics/brain. Duel, TDM and CTF is on a whole nother level than CA fyi.

Online skill-based games are online games in which the outcome of the game is determined by the player's physical skill (like fast reaction or dexterity) or mental skill (logic abilities, strategic thinking, trivia knowledge).

Dude, it's just a random wikipedia definition. And even in the definition they separate physical skills and mental "skills". And also aiming/dodging/moving also involve brain abilities :).

If you're a visionary, you'll see that OW will live past a year and beyond.

I'm visionary because i'm not blind like most OW players. Like i said, people usually like OW cause it's new and made by blizzard $$$$$$$$. But when the hype will go down and the game will get more stale people will start realizing what i've said in our discussion.

There were sceptics regarding WoW when it first came out, where are those people now? WoW is still played even after 10 years, it all depends on expanding the game, adding content and giving people something new.

You can't compare WoW and overwatch. WoW was released more than 10 years ago and is a totally different type of game than OW. And talking about it, WoW is now mainly a game for "casual" players or those who like to chill out with friends, it's not a true competitive e-sport game anymore. And WoW's popularity has declined over the years and is now surpassed by games like LoL, CS:GO, CoD etc.
Also, how many expansions WoW has ? There are so many that I can't even remember. And how many expansions are planned for OW ? 0! :)
If they keep adding new heroes or maps in OW the game will become even harder to balance and people will get tired to learn new maps every 6 months. Look at CS:GO, it's the same maps over and over again but people still play it (and CS:GO is still more popular than OW).

And what's new in Quake over the past 20 years? Not much compared to WoW and OW.

What's new in CS over the past 15 years ? What I mean is that you don't necessarily need "OMFG NEW FRESH NEVER SEEN BEFORE!!!" things to make a game popular.

The only thing that can save Quake, is Champions.

We seem to agree there :). So why not keeping playing quake or cpm or rflx or qw until QC comes out :) ? Who cares if those games are dead compared to OW ? If you're a true quaker in your heart you would play a game for it's gameplay rather than for its popularity.

On a last note, you should read up on the critcs reviews of OW. You'll probably see why OW is so popular.

Read it already. Critics reviews are made for casual or clueless gamers, mostly. According to critics, even CoD is high rated. I prefer to have my own opinion on a game rather than reading journalists reviews that are probably paid by the devs to say good things about their game(s) :>

Oh and btw, you're basically a CA player, it is funny, but not surprising that you can't fathom how important tactics is to a team game.

1) I don't play 4v4 CA, as i find it too random and endless RL spam festival, with most maps being too small for 8 players
2) I didn't say there's a lot of tactics in CA, and I clearly stated that CTF (and maybe TDM) is/are the most tactical/strategical gametypes of quake.
3) I have a preference to "raw skill" rather than tactics or strategy. I have to admit tho that i like tactic too in quake (like positioning, keeping the right distance with your enemy, etc).

Hey look at me, I start out with 200 health and 100 armour, all weapons and max ammo. I run to the enemies, kill them(or die trying), 20 sec later the round ends. It takes sooooo much skill.

Yeah, that's some hardcore skills right there, spamming and rushing in.

You don't have to rush the "meet point" on the map at 1v1 or 2v2 CA (like i said i only play 1v1 and 2v2) actually :>. And since it's 1v1 or 2v2, there's actually very few spam and the action is very easy to follow :>.

The main point of 1v1/2v2 CA isn't strategy. It's
1) raw skill (aim/dodge/movements)
2) little bit a tactic (positioning, when to move forward and when to not)

and that's enough for me, i still enjoy playing it after like 10+ years :). I wouldn't mind if it were more popular tho, and in QC or DBL i'll probably move on to other gametypes.

Compared to OW, that is fucking simple and doesn't require much in terms of tactics/brain.

I never said 1v1/2v2 CA requieres more strategy than 6v6 OW. I said 6v6 OW isn't as complex as people tend to think and that CTF and TDM probably already requiere at least as much if not more strategy than this spam fest that is OW :>

Also, like i said already I don't care much about strategy in a game like quake. I care more about balance/visibility/adrenalineRush/rawSkills/simpleness of the gameplay but yet still hard to master etc...
If i want a real strategy game i rather play chess, starcraft or might&magic heroes.

Dude, it's just a random wikipedia definition. And even in the definition they separate physical skills and mental "skills". And also aiming/dodging/moving also involve brain abilities :).

It's hilarious reading this. It's just an example.
You can't admit defeat. Back to the anvil, back to the anvil. Still clinging to the notion that the mental skills(strategy,knowledge,adpatation,building confidence, developing extreme focus, getting that "never-give-up" attitude, becoming aggressive when you need to) aren't skills at all. Dude, they can be trained and learned just like physical skills(movement,aim etc), and yes even teamplay can be trained. Stop trolling and do yourself a favour, do a quick internet search about what Mental Skills are, and Skills in general.
Here's a bit of info...

http://study.com/articles/How_to_Become_a_Pro...Gamer.html

tl;dr
Key Skills: Hand-eye coordination, strategy, good reflexes, fast reaction time, decision-making skills [...]

http://topyaps.com/7-skills-an-expert-gamer-should-possess

tl;dr
7. Team Work:
Majority games require you to function as a team. Teamwork is essential for ultimate success. It is impossible for a single person to win a team game. You are required to spend a great amount of time with your team mates, in order to get to know them better and also to develop strategy for winning your game. Making plans and learning about your role in the team will help the team to succeed. In many cases professional teams tend to live in a house together for creating better bonding. They work on their strategies together that result into building a stronger team.

I rest my case. You've lost this argument 3 times atleast now.

I'm visionary because i'm not blind like most OW players. Like i said, people usually like OW cause it's new and made by blizzard $$$$$$$$. But when the hype will go down and the game will get more stale people will start realizing what i've said in our discussion.
[...]
Read it already. Critics reviews are made for casual or clueless gamers, mostly. According to critics, even CoD is high rated. I prefer to have my own opinion on a game rather than reading journalists reviews that are probably paid by the devs to say good things about their game(s) :>

I like the fact that you say that. Goes to show you indeed wear blinders; "I don't agree with them, so they are wrong/clueless/corrupted!"
Lighten up, man.

1) I don't play 4v4 CA, as i find it too random and endless RL spam festival, with most maps being too small for 8 players
2) I didn't say there's a lot of tactics in CA, and I clearly stated that CTF (and maybe TDM) is/are the most tactical/strategical gametypes of quake.
3) I have a preference to "raw skill" rather than tactics or strategy. I have to admit tho that i like tactic too in quake (like positioning, keeping the right distance with your enemy, etc).
[...]
You don't have to rush the "meet point" on the map at 1v1 or 2v2 CA (like i said i only play 1v1 and 2v2) actually :>. And since it's 1v1 or 2v2, there's actually very few spam and the action is very easy to follow :>.

The main point of 1v1/2v2 CA isn't strategy. It's
1) raw skill (aim/dodge/movements)
2) little bit a tactic (positioning, when to move forward and when to not)

and that's enough for me...

1v1 CA...

... I see.

I said 6v6 OW isn't as complex as people tend to think ...

It require skills, you just disagree because you don't like it and/or can't play it. But it is deeper and more complex than you know. Watch the vid.. http://esreality.com/post/2846142/#pid2845966
It require communication skills(teamplay), physical skills and timing to name a few. And that's just 1 example, you'll find lots on youtube.


I don't care to dig up anything more for you to clarify my points.
Please do me a favour and search the internet yourself.
I'm too tired!

Still clinging to the notion that the mental skills(strategy,knowledge,adpatation,building confidence, developing extreme focus, getting that "never-give-up" attitude, becoming aggressive when you need to) aren't skills at all.

It's not skills as in raw skills like aim/dodges/movements etc... It's more related to the intelligence and thinking rather than "instinctive thinking" that is raw skill.

Dude, they can be trained and learned just like physical skills(movement,aim etc), and yes even teamplay can be trained.

man, i already said many times that yes, they can be trained, but you don't practice raw skills the same way that you practice what you call "brain".
And what I said already is that mental abilities is more something you learn once and then include in your playstyle, whereas raw skill is more something you have to practice VERY repeatedly to then get good at it.

I rest my case. You've lost this argument 3 times atleast now.

You can bring me any random definitions your find on the internet, it won't change the fact that raw skills =/= mental abilities.

I like the fact that you say that. Goes to show you indeed wear blinders; "I don't agree with them, so they are wrong/clueless/corrupted!"
Lighten up, man.

You want me to elaborate on why I don't agree with them and why they are wrong ?
You really think i'm not aware that there isn't just 1 valid opinion ? There is 1 valid opinion in some cases, depends on many factors actually. But in this case, i think my opinion of OW as a quake player is rather solid.

1v1 CA...

... I see.

OW...

... I see.

:>

It require skills, you just disagree because you don't like it and/or can't play it.

Where did i say it doesn't requiere teamplay/strategy/coordination etc ? Ofc you can practice OW as you can practice TF2 or basically any game, but people often praise it as THE "new omfg deepest strategical and skillful game ever!!!", which is totally wrong.
Quake is still miles ahead of OW in that regard, so is starcraft. And for example a game like LoL requieres much more strategy and teamplay etc than OW.

"It's not skills as in raw skills like aim/dodges/movements etc... It's more related to the intelligence and thinking rather than "instinctive thinking" that is raw skill."

lol, are you retarded?? I already said it's part of mental skills, or are you trying to convince me that doesn't exist? What you keep refering to is the physical skills. How hard is that to grasp??

"...But in this case, i think my opinion of OW as a quake player is rather solid."

Yeah keep telling yourself that. It is your opinion, which as with most of your opinions, you have no evidence to back it up.

"man, i already said many times that yes, they can be trained, but you don't practice raw skills the same way that you practice what you call "brain".
And what I said already is that mental abilities is more something you learn once and then include in your playstyle, whereas raw skill is more something you have to practice VERY repeatedly to then get good at it."

Here we go again lol. Mental skills, do a google search already, fuck sake!

"You can bring me any random definitions your find on the internet, it won't change the fact that raw skills =/= mental abilities."

Hilarious! Again mental skills, you have a hard time grasping that haven't you?

Here, use this....

www.google.com

If you are still in doubt about what I'm talking about, ask someone who has a pretty good knowledge of this sort of things... like a doctor. But inform him/her to use small words so that you might understand.

lol, are you retarded?? I already said it's part of mental skills, or are you trying to convince me that doesn't exist?

I would rather say "mental abilities" rather than "mental skills". But anyway it doesn't matter much cause like i said you have to separate "raw skills" with "mental abilities/skills/brain/whatever you call it".

What you keep refering to is the physical skills. How hard is that to grasp??

physical skills also come from the brain. Without a brain you wouldn't be able to move your hand, to see, to make ultra quick decisions... to live :)

Yeah keep telling yourself that. It is your opinion, which as with most of your opinions, you have no evidence to back it up.

Dude i could say the same for you then. I just don't need random google definitions to express my opinion. What i'm saying is pretty obvious, so i don't need citations from google or anything. If i had no evidence to back it up i wouldn't have written all those walls of text.
Look, this OW worldcup thread only have 6% of popularity and i guess you and me made the most comments, without us, nobody there would've cared, i guess OW is pretty unpopular amongst the quake players (except the former quake pros players etc).

Here we go again lol. Mental skills, do a google search already, fuck sake!

don't need google, everything is in my head :>

Hilarious! Again mental skills, you have a hard time grasping that haven't you?

dude like i said already, mental abilities/skills/brain/whatever you call it, is NOT like raw skill even tho both start from the brain.

Man it looks like you deprecate OW because it doesn't favor the most the skill you are good at (hitscan aim). You're focused on 1v1/2v2 CA mostly on one single map with totally simplified architecture. No wonder you find yourself uncomfortable in environment where you have plenty of maps, various heroes and abilities.

If you compare those worlds you have Quake with a few skills with high ceilings to master and OW with 40+ skills with medium skill ceiling + game modes requiring players to synergize or lose.

I love Quake, I love it since 90's. I still gonna play it from time to time, but playing OW is somehow refreshing after all these years. I'm not sure how long OW gonna last. Probably not that long as Quake, but we live now in different times, everything is changing much often.

Hi, dumb fuck!

"At the end only TF2 and shootmania players will keep playing OW."
Bwahahahaha! :)

I think QL players rather play Quake (esp 1v1) but I also think maybe they'd enjoy an OW-like game that was better put together for competition. Quake will always be best for 1v1 but for team play, the hybrid games are probably the future.

Watch S. Korea play in these next few matches and then judge the potential of OW. Blizzard is very close to having something. I don't think Blizzard will change OW too much though. Maybe the next hybrid FPS will nail it.

but I also think maybe they'd enjoy an OW-like game that was better put together for competition.

dibotical and QC won't be like overwatch but i'm pretty sure both games will surpass OW by far and will be more interesting to play and especially to watch.

Quake will always be best for 1v1 but for team play, the hybrid games are probably the future.

No, actually CTF requieres A LOT of teamplay and is far from being repetitive (cause of the powerups etc) like OW where it's basically like "push - wait for you team m8s - push - wait for your team m8s - push - wait for your team m8s and so on". And it's not like in OW where players have to meet to a choke point and then spam spam spam with your m8s, actually in CTF you have to whole map to "evolve" and build your strategy while in OW, like i said already, the action always happen at a choke point where 12 players have to spam spam spam and spam again, it's pretty random and hard to follow.

Watch S. Korea play in these next few matches and then judge the potential of OW.

I have basically 0 interest of watching the koreans play. Why ? Because like i said already, this world cup is a joke and the lineups are often very stupid and made by clueless noobs votes.

"while in OW, like i said already, the action always happen at a choke point where 12 players have to spam spam spam and spam again, it's pretty random and hard to follow."


You just confirmed my suspicion, you have to be around 2800 skillrank max

why are you so obsessed with elo ?

everytime someone gives his opinion about something you rush him by saying, basically, "you suck, your elo is low"

I played enough of the game to understand the basics and more. I watched enough streams of pro players and high cash prize tournaments to understand that the game isn't as complex strategically as people tend to think. And also that it's not well balanced and still has flaws in its gameplay.

I also pointed out opinions (without going into details) of very skilled overwatch players. That's not enough for you ?

are you saying that on hybrid and payload maps you dont use choke points and high ground and spam them?

dibotical and QC won't be like overwatch but i'm pretty sure both games will surpass OW by far and will be more interesting to play and especially to watch.

in what kind of parallel universe will diabotical or QC surpass OW?
Playercount? definitely not.

in what kind of parallel universe will diabotical or QC surpass OW?
Playercount? definitely not.

i forgot to precise that i was talking about gameplay mainly, and also GFX, customizations etc.
Players count, I don't know, it's too early to say, but at least if you look at the success of DOOM 2016 it's pretty encouraging. Not saying it will reach LoL level of players count but it can definitely be as much popular as OW is now (and considering the fact that OW popularity is already declining, when QC or DBL will come out they will probably surpass it because of the hype)

how do you even derive that the OW popularity is declining? do you have any evident numerical reference to come to such a conclusion considering blizzard does barely give out any numbers except total units sold (which is 10million according to an official tweet from JUNE 2016 - and that number is already outdated by now)?

and come on, you have to be quite delusional to think that QC and diabolical would even reach those numbers combined. blizzard just has some kind of different leverage when it comes to the consumer market.

beyond that, taking doom 2016 as a refernce for some kind of success will just lead to false hopes. according to this article, doom has sold 1m copies. and i assume a bit more by now.

OW just caters a broader audience with its casual play, but can also offer a competitive environment as we have now seen in a few tournaments.

ofc he hasn't any references. He just claims this and that without having anything to back him up.

btw, Overwatch has passed 20 million players, and that was almost a month ago.

btw, Overwatch has passed 20 million players, and that was almost a month ago.

source ? ;)

Google it!

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/more-overwat...0-6445095/

I assume that in korean PC bangs you just have to register your account and do not need to buy the game.

So 20m is a fuckin huge success, even for blizzard terms

From your article :

Note that numbers generated by SteamSpy are always an estimate and should never be taken as an accurate representation of sales. Nonetheless, what we can take out of this is that DOOM is doing well on PC.

and also the article was written in August 11, 2016.

Not saying doom 2016 sold more than ow, but considering it's a success, it gives hope for QC.

and finally QC will be MP only, which means more potential players than DOOM, cause nowadays MP games sell more than SP game (except for rare cases).

and come on, you have to be quite delusional to think that QC and diabolical would even reach those numbers combined.

How much would you bet ? :>

Doom has about 2-3000 active players per day. Thats success alright. lol

i'm not talking about mp, cause obv doom's mp is rather boring.

doom is supposed to be a sp game anyway

as an sp game it's a success

Yeah, I think it's a good environment for learning English

Did you personally come up with a statistical correlation by comparing Doom's past sales and QC future success? I think it would be quite exciting to hear your approach.
It's like comparing apples and oranges at the moment, as Doom is a single player and QC will be a multi player.

And as people have been pointing out, arena fps is currently in its shambles. QL and the remains are considered dead by its community.
We can now see upcoming games like UT4, which by judging of its development speed, will stay in the alpha for way more time than initially hoped for.
Maybe 2GD will be able to release Diabolical at a faster pace.

But consider this for a second, why did 2GD have to start a crowd funding?
Why didn't he manage to get the funding in a traditional way?
Is it maybe that investors are reluctant to put money in an arena fps and consider it a too risky endeavour?

just my 2 cents

Sorry but fps arena in general is a dead genre.

let's hope for a revival with QC and DBL then :)

QC will follow the path of Quake 4. I don't expect anything more from it in terms of e-sport scene.

Diabotical will be even more niche, mostly for QL, Warsow and Reflex players.

QC will follow the path of Quake 4.

Or the path of DOOM 2016, which is a success for its singleplayer. DOOM = sp, QC = mp.

Diabotical will be even more niche, mostly for QL, Warsow and Reflex players.

DBL"s kickstarter campaign was a huge success, so it gives a lot of hope for this game.

I karate chopped a fireman in a swimming pool because that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Yeah, I love ctf but unfortunately I don't think it's even as casting friendly as OW, which is itself pretty hard to get used to. Ctf is super fun to play though when the teams are even IMO because of the action and strategy etc. But not sure if it could ever have a wide appeal as a spectator esport.

Yeah, I love ctf but unfortunately I don't think it's even as casting friendly as OW, which is itself pretty hard to get used to.

TBH i think the opposite :p, i mean for me CTF is more casting friendly than OW, and much less chaotic. And in CTF you always have 1st person POV, which makes it more impressive to watch imho.

CTF is easier to cast because there's not 22 different heroes with like 453653 different abilities and it's not 6v6 @ choke points.
A good quad run or even flag run is much easier to understand than anything in OW even if you never played quake before. And it's also more impressive.

But not sure if it could ever have a wide appeal as a spectator esport.

Well, there were plenty of CTF LAN tournaments already, including many QuakeCon etc ;)

You don't need it to cater non-gamer spectators if there's 20 million ppl playing your game.

yes but

more spectator-friendly = more potential players, even those that don't play the game but are willing to try it after seeing it on stream(s) (if they find it impressive etc)

and for example soccer is watched by a lot of non-soccer players

my point was just that it doesn't matter if CTF is more spectator friendly if noone is actually interested in playing the game.

yes but people are not interested in playing the game not because of CTF ;)

I stopped making sense to this guy, don't try to convince him of anything.

i think ow rewards aim a lot.
but, you have to be the true god, to constantly win with your raw aim skill.
like, mccree 80% accuracy with 50+% headshot
or
tracer 80% accuracy 20%headshot
something like this.
i dont say its impossible, but i think noone has reached this level yet.

some current ow pro streamers played against cheaters in korean servers.
those korean mccrees hit 100% accuracy(most of them were bodyshots thuogh) in any kind of situations, and pros still won some of them.
this means that your aim has to be at least better than that if you want to feel rewarded(constant wins) in this game.

yes but how many mccree or tracer or let's just say offense heroes per team ?

2 max, out of 6 heroes. 4 heroes that requiere 0 aim left. VS 2 heroes that rewards aiming

you can compensate your lack of aim as a team by relying on support or tank heroes.

and genji is OP :> (not even a proper hitscan hero, fuck it)

Soldier 76 will be buffed soon. from 17 damage to 20 damage per shot, which I'm sure you may enjoy, Widowmaker being buffed a little too with faster scoping and couple other things. Ana also requires good aim, particularly with the sleep dart.

Soldier 76 will be buffed soon. from 17 damage to 20 damage per shot, which I'm sure you may enjoy, Widowmaker being buffed a little too with faster scoping and couple other things

sounds good :).

i find current scopping with widow way too slow, feels like you're carrying a 60kg sniper rifle.

soldier76 is the only fun hero to play for me, might give it a shot again if i'm bored of quake :>

Sorry, what I wanted to say was if you can perform like what I said, I think you don't have to rely on your teammates to win matches.
But no one hasn't reached this kind of level of aim yet.

Therefore, as you said, Relying on your team is the proper way to play this game so far.

Accuracy is a thing, combat skill is another one.
But still, ow isnt a pure fps, you could be a 70% acc mcree and still losing, if opponents pick the right team composition.

Sorry, what I wanted to say was if you can perform like what I said, I think you don't have to rely on your teammates to win matches.

you mean hitting 80%+ with mccree or 60% with tracer ? :D Even with 10 years of practice only maybe 1 or 2 guys on the entiere planet would be able to achieve that.

and since it's 6v6, and has moba abilities, then teamplay > all. :)

yeah, if you have 80% acc and half of your shots are headshots, i think you have a chance to constantly win with full nobrain teammates.
i think 60% for tracer is not enough. i think you need 80% acc with 20% headshots or something like that.
i think it should be similar aim skill level with quakelive 60 or 65% lg( in all ranges).

i think it is extremely hard and people in today's fps scene(including me) think it is almost impossible.
you will be praised as true aim god by all fps players.

but we are trying to go there anyway right?
thats why we are still experimenting.

I karate chopped my best friends' boyfriend in your bathroom because I'm AWESOME!

trolling while having xanax by the beach. Top vacations

If they removed ultimates and rebalanced heroes without them I would enjoy playing Overwatch with friends, I think Blizzard have the core for a good casual game. Ultimates like they are in the game now just makes it weird, it should never be a bad thing to deal damage to opponents like it is now, feeding Ana ult is very bad.

In mobas like DOTA when you dont have many ultimates on your team but you know the opponent does, you do everything to avoid teamfights. In Overwatch you don't have the option to avoid teamfights so you just get many fights where one team has more ultimates and has to mess up execution a lot in order to not win the fight.

"In Overwatch you don't have the option to avoid teamfights (...)"

rright

Well then you should not feed Ana. Delivering damage that is not turned into frag means nothing except charging your ult and theirs healers' ults. So that's why converting damage into kills is such an important aspect.

There are tons of people on the servers that think they are doing good job because they have good damage stats, but still losing hard.

wtf is an ultimate?

Before you die, you see the Ultimate!

If the mouse didnt feel like GARBAGE in OW and there were no ults I would like the game

my son is excited =]

Finals start today at 20:00 CET.

I am elite csgo overwatcher, where i have to register for this event pls.

Dont understand anything about this game, too chaotic gameplay. But SK surely is tearing USA a new one.

If this game succeeds its proof Quake problem isnt being fast paced, bc this game is retardly fast paced.

lol, yeah, but you get used to it after watching a while. USA very frustrating to watch because to me it seemed like they lacked a team captain. That's why they wasted so many ults. If like three or four of your teammates die, you shouldn't be using ults at that point. Need to communicate and have someone telling the others to just die and regroup and then come up with plan of attack. Easier said than done though I guess.

LMAO quakers always boasting how their game has a lot action going on but complains about overwatch being "CHAOOOOOTIC....."

u mad?

ur not invited to my birthday party

is iddqd the quake player?

no.

he's a retarded version of the quake player

edit: my bad he's the iddqd from quake.
i'm a retarded version of myself. :D

You would think so with that name, I thought he would be some oldschool qw player or something, but doesn't seem to be any info.

He said in one interview during this event asked why is he so good at Mcree that he was Quake player and his fav weapon was railgun. He finds Mcree's revolver being the same kind of shooting thing but with higher fire rate.

South Korea stomped Russia in final so much. They didn't even cap a single point on any map. The didn't lose single map in whole tournament and there were only 1-2 close maps, one with Sweden and one with Finland ifaik.

I'm hoping that western teams will do better in Korean league, because it won't be good for the game to see such domination by Koreans. They played really smart and coordinated. They made only a few mistakes

Koreans don't dominate in OW
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/overwatch/Portal:Tournaments

It was just that they had a much better team selected for this exhibition cup.

I know but it's going in this direction. Let's wait for end of APEX. So far Rogue is doing good.

i agree with you on this one :>

[+]

IDDQD is the Swedish IDDQD, which most of you propably have gotten. He is indeed an old Quake player.

so South Korea 1st
Russia 2nd
Sweden 3rd
Finland 4th

south korea pretty much dominating this tournament.

retarded lineups for most countries, not enough time to practice as teams, south korea's team players picks being favorable unlike countries like france etc

this "pick your favorite player(s) in your country" votes to make national teams by blizzard was sooooo retarded. Clueless noobs votes (people often vote for their favorite streamer(s), ROFL), except for south korea since it's a rather small country ruled by progaming, so people often know for which right player to pick up (again, compared to france, it's just miles ahead better).

i want to see europeans and americans mixed up teams against south korea, would mean much more than this current so-called "world cup", lol.

y u heff to be mad

Just seeking attention. We are witnessing the birth of a new Jamerio.

I agree. Especially team France was underrepresented. I think they could just make a voting for team Captain and let him chose the rest of the team. Also info they gave on candidate's profile page was completely uninformative. They put there rank and 3 top played heroes. While we know starts from pro teams, there were plenty of unknown players. For my country I recognized only few nicks and rest was just purely random voting.

OW is sh1t from the cultural perspective. OW is the real definition of kitsch in virtual entertainment. I am referring here at the lack of solid influence from the European art (not newer Jewish ambiguities, but by pure European standards -and Russian and even East Asian universal standards, which each share common elements).

The game would use too much modernism and scifi subculture in the general artwork of the game. Those graffiti wannabe emblems you can put on the walls does not help unless you are a fan of the African ghetto. All this ikea star trek orientation combined with classical Asian and European elements equals kitsch. Besides the architecture of maps and textures there are too many colors in the game, especially game effects, designed maybe to please kindergarten kids but who would definitively make harder for the spectator to follow the action. The entire visual composition, the "artstyle" -cannot even properly call it that way -of the game is a joke and the fact that this does not bother anyone, on the contrary would just show how deep modern society has sunken in terms of culture.

Based on this aspect, Quake 1 who would especially use solid and most importantly coherent European artistic motives (classical and mostly Gothic elements, even to playermodels and weapons and even SOUNDS) is 1,000 miles ahead of Overwatch -what kind of title is this for a game by the way, and what does this even mean, Overwatch??

The gameplay of OW might have complex and intriguing elements that would please a lot of fps players because the fresh air this would bring to the never changing fps arena, but this is mostly successful because abilities variation and varying combinations that you get with them, but if we'd put aside the fact that standard tdm and ctf exist for over 15 years, this is no big deal. Diversity excludes perfection. For pure comparison imagine if all game modes would have been just appearing now.

And with this we arrive to the biggest -hidden -flow of any game based on specific abilities: this kind of games would always have overpowered abilities and characters or would bring all abilities and characters to the lowest denominator and thus ERASING the very core aspect of games' variation, which is the base of its success, by making every ability and character equal to each other in term of final results. This aspect is hidden or not revealed because once you start playing you get sucked into the game without realizing that the various abilities and characters you try would deflect your attention to the biggest flaw of the game -if you want to feel the true value of OW gameplay then try to deconstruct and analyze gameplay in single units -1v1 attack vs attack, and so on, and enjoy the disaster of the gameplay. The game enjoys the success because the way it appeals to fps players who like to flatter themselves about the intellectual capacity, the so-called deep strategy that they possess in contrast to true hardcore fighting abilities. I agree that if you want to give gameplay some variation you modify things here and there, but too much is too much. The ideal solution would be to pick the tdm standard genre and create specific classes based on abilities on a decent level. OW has already too many useless characters, and instead reducing their number and focusing on the remaining ones, Blizzard would add more.

And then, from pure technical point of view, what kind of competitive game of the XXI century is this who does not even support the ability to record and replay matches? Doom introduced this basic function back in the 90!

Anyway, to quote a friend of mine, "you do not discuss bad taste: you just spit on the owner"

Error: The target user can't receive judgements

I would [+] you 10x if I could.

the players of this game are dip shits