well i went for this, future proof build:

http://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/fil0/saved/JMJzK8

msi gaming because of two m.2 slots. - i highly recommned using m.2 for loading and working with larger graphics files and for game loads, i have my system on my old intel ssd. The diffrenece between m.2 and ssd is noticable as going from pata to sata.

Your link is not working.

try this1:

http://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/fil0/saved/JMJzK8

Works now.

1,5x the budget, non-K CPU with stock cooler and with pricey Z-board, overkill (as in price) SSD, no data storage, overkill PSU and no case included - and still 60Hz display.

Not really thought out carefully imo, but the helping intention is commendable.

its a future proof PC for a double 1070 - thats why a PSU that has qualitiy parts., data storage was taken from old computer. ... why buy a new case when you can use old one??... and a mobo thats support double m.2 for the money you save not buying a new case and yes non-K CPU, because K-CPU are overpriced and i can get it in a year or two half the price or rather a new generation for 1511, with maybe even 8mb L2 cache.

i hope i cleared some of the miss understanding you seem to have.

That's ok and all, you wrote what you bought, I understood it for the 1st time - but this didn't help the OP at all, who asked for a complete rig for about 1000 EUR, which includes everything - well, as it looks now, everything but the display (and keyboard/mouse/pad/speakers/headphones).

i just gave an example of how you can save on some parts that you already have and for that price ie. data storage you can reinvest into a better/newer/5x faster storage, that will help noticable when working in editing and so on.

Besides you get to a cca 1050€, when removing the screen from the my list and swaping 1070 to a rx480.

With that, you could say "switch half of the parts on the list to something cheaper and you are good to go." : D

But HDD still needed, so as a case. That's an additional ~150 EUR at least, if he wants something decent. We are at 1200 EUR then and still no display (+200-250 EUR), and still having stock cooling on the CPU (a decent cooler is +20-25 EUR minimum, so we are at almost 1500 EUR), but we have a motherboard, an SSD and a PSU that's out of context.

Having Non-K CPU with a Z-board is weird in my book. Basically he would pay +200 EUR just for having m.2 slot and an m.2 SSD; +100 for the m/b and +100 for the SSD itself compared to a B150+SATA3 combo - and I seriously doubt that it's worth it, especially for the OP.
PSU way too expensive and unnecessary, ~450W is more than enough. He's not building SLI / CF. When the time comes, he will be better off just upgrading the single VGA to a better one. More money left in the pocket, less noise, less heat, better airflow inside the case.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't want a base to build a super monster rig later on for his money (nor he mentioned he has some existing parts), he wants something that is complete, balanced and you don't have to touch it for years.

Sure.

Here you go;
http://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/QlShdR/saved/zvLJxr

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600 OEM
cooler: Xigmatek Loki II (decent stuff)
M/B: GIGABYTE GA-B150M-DS3H
RAM: 2 x 8GB Kingston Savage DDR4-2133 CL13 (CL13, baby)
VGA: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 SC 6GB
ODD: Lite-On iHAS124-04 (can come in handy and it's cheap anyways)
SSD: 240GB Kingston HyperX Fury (very good and reliable model)
HDD: 2TB Western Digital Red (only Reds for data storage, halleluja)
case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (White) (very good stuff on the cheaper end)
PSU: Corsair CX430M (modular - and solid choice overall)

That's ~1000 EUR right there, only quality parts. Your best bet is something like this.
Maybe you can swap out the GTX 1060 6GB with an RX480 8GB because of upcoming DX12-titles and Vulkan, but on my part, I put my faith into nVidia because its lower TDP, lower heat- and sound levels and better drivers.
If you go with this build, you have to spend additional ~200-250 EUR on a 144Hz TN LCD if you want fluid gameplay on screen. TN has bad colors tho.
If you want a 144Hz TN-panel, that has really nice colors (for a TN), check out LG 24GM77 - that might be a good all-around model for you calibrated, if you are not a hardcore VFX / DTP nerd.
144Hz IPS is way more expensive (and still has worse response times).

OR

You are content with a dirt cheap (few EURs, or even for free) pro-grade 21" Trinitron / Diamondtron CRT. Colors, input lag and refresh rates will be better than TN / IPS. Only downs on this are the higher power consumption and bigger physical dimensions - but since your desk holds it, not your shoulders..

-------------------------------------------------------


This is an example for a 800 EUR build, leaving that ~200 EUR for a display;

http://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/QlShdR/saved/bkkdCJ

Weaker CPU, half the RAM, weaker (but still nice) VGA, half the extra HDD space (we won't touch that 240GB SSD tho), slightly worse case, higher TDP.


-------------------------------------------------------



But I really advise you to go with the first build instead and get that additional 200-250 EUR for the monitor seperately - or since you are into web-design and stuff, go with big-CRT route. That will be awesome for both gaming and both GFX-realated work, since it has top colors, practically 0 input lag and high refresh rates. Or you can keep the CRT for gaming and get a DELL IPS for visual work (mainly because of larger screen size) around 150-160 EUR.

So the best would probably be:

1) the 1st build + 21" CRT

2) the 1st build + LG 24GM77@calibrated (+200-250 EUR)

3) the 1st build + 21" CRT + 24" DELL IPS (+150-160 EUR)

tl;dr: You really want 120 / 120+ Hz if you consider gaming (especially FPS-genre) and while getting a decent non-144Hz IPS will be good all-around, it's performance will surely impact the gameplay negatively when playing fast-paced titles.

thx for taking your time ! will look at it tonight.

yw

If you still want somewaht correct colors with IPS panels then 120 hz is overrated, the chance of getting background bleeding with so called "gamng" monitors is to great.

That's why I gave him alternatives for displays. With a "tight" budget, your options are limited and you have to make compromises.

24GM77@calibrated will be very nice for gaming and a good-overall experience with browsing, coding and watching movies - even light graphics stuff. It has very good colors for a TN-panel and a really fast monitor.

If AdobeRGB is really important, he should just go with CRT with his budget, that will be top-notch for Photoshop and Quake as well - otherwise, he'll just sacrifice a good amount of performance (CPU, RAM, VGA, disk space) and will still be stuck at 60Hz which is awful for fast-paced games.

60hz isnt that awefull, you can normaly play games, especialy if you are a casual gamer.

60Hz IS awful in fast-paced games. I wouldn't even sit down to play an FPS with that refresh rate. For that, 75Hz is the bare minimum and that's still crap compared to 120 / 144.

If you play Warcraft 3, Fallouts and stuff like that, IPS 60Hz is acceptable. But not good.

@the moment i have a 60 Hz :) 120 / 144 is my minimum for sure !

Then, if you really want some longevity, go with the 1st rig I wrote for you with a calibrated LG 24GM77 (or CRT). ; )

what is with the BenQ XL2411Z ? its a bit cheaper , an alternative ?

That's some strange prices over there. Here, the LG is like 40EUR cheaper than the BenQ.

Well, the XL2411Z is one of the most used display by pros with XL2411T and VG248QE.
It's fast and responsive, dynamic screen scaling is a nice feature, so as Black Equalizer (the LG has that feature too), however its colors are absolutely horrid out-of-the-box (that's true for most 144Hz TNs, but this is a major case), so you need to invest time to find decent settings - and even then, you won't faint from the colors.

The bigger drawback imo is the lack of DisplayPort. While you can get 144Hz on DVI-D as well, the audio jack on the monitor is just a decoration then, because only HDMI and DP can carry an audio signal besides the video signal - and you won't use the monitor with HDMI, since you'll be confined with 60Hz*.
This is more like a convenience-thing with your headphones tho (as of yet) - if you take the fact out of the equation that quite a few VGAs are getting rid of the DVI as well nowadays (so you have to buy an adapter).
I would go for a DP-model rather.

*: I heard that you can get 120Hz@HDMI, if you lower the resolution to 720p, but I never tried it so I won't recommend buying something based on this.


tl;dr: Not a bad monitor, certainly good for fast-paced games (in terms of responsivity and input lag), but it seems you can find better deals, especially if you want more balanced specs and picture quality. But if it's very cheap, you can go for it, you probably won't regret it (after some tweaking with colors, contrast & brightness).

Thank you very much for your time. helps me alot!

yw

why is 60 Hz awful? I mean are you saying that a low skill player can beat a high skill player just because he is on 144 Hz or even mid skill player for that matter?
The only way I see it, is players being the same skill level and a better display giving you a slight advantage if any.

don't even try he was convinced via marketing, that 120hz is the ONLY WAY POSSIBLE, EVER! :)

No, he has eyes and tried both on multiple displays; CRT, 60Hz LCDs and a 144Hz one. The difference in gameplay smoothness is definitive (with CRTs still being at top).


144Hz ~= 120Hz >> 100Hz >> 85Hz >> 75Hz >>>>> 60Hz


If your hand-eye coordination ability is above potat level, you should feel it too.

"why is 60 Hz awful?"

Because it's shit to look at, if things moving faster than a sloth on screen. : D


"I mean are you saying that a low skill player can beat a high skill player just because he is on 144 Hz or even mid skill player for that matter?"

Never said or even implied such a thing.


"players being the same skill level and a better display giving you a slight advantage if any."

More like this. But that advantage is not just slight imo. In my case, 60 Hz is -5-10% drop in aim percentages with lg and rg in QL, which is huge. Also easier to register fast-moving targets with your eyes on 120/120+ Hz - and easier on the eyes in general, especially the flicker-free displays.

It won't get you more skill, but can certainly give an edge if you play with roughly the same-category players as you. It's much easier to use your skill to your extent - the same thing that applies to good mice + pads vs. rusty toaster + desk as well.

Is there anything that can make a low skill player beat a high skill one? No, so going by that logic, we should all be playing on 50hz and with gamepads via xbox/playstation

well you can also play on 144Hz and have the same result. No one is saying that technological advance should be halted because one solution is not giving you an edge over your opponent.

Also your note on 50Hz and gamepads is basically more focused on gamers comfort than giving the opportunity to win a game. So by that logic we are all at same skill level but the gear we use makes us better than the rest.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or just trying to fight.

Either way it doesn't matter, your point about something being worth only if it allows a n00b to beat a pr0 is retarded.

Hello. Love your first rst example, a lot of great parts.

Would a 4790k 4ghz work just as well in your first example?

Ill probably build mine mostly for quake 144hz. Love the 1060 6gb idea, often overlooked

Should be ok. Even better in applications that can utilize the extra +4 threads - like streaming.
You will miss the broader bandwith of the DDR4 - while CL-values will be better on DDR3 tho.

Even a good Sandy / Ivy Bridge i5 / i7 is more than a viable option for today's standards - and it will be for at least another 2-3 years from now on (which is crazy if you think about how rapidly PC parts gets out of date - I mean Sandy Bridge debuted in 2011 and Ivy Bridge in 2012). It's just that if somebody wants a new rig, you should baffle them to newer generation parts, because the availability (and better TDP and heat-levels and that few % of extra performance - and in the Skylake's case, the DDR4).

If the budget is REALLY thight (which is not the case with OP), you can go with 2nd hand Sandy / Ivy i5 / i7. Best cost / value ratio, by far. They are dirt cheap - at least in the country I live in. You can get an i5-2400 for about $80 and an i7-2600 for about $140 here - their Ivy-counterparts costs just a few bucks more. If you can get something like this with a cheap board (H61, but prefereably B75), you are still good to go for some years (even longer, if you get a K CPU with proper Z-board) with a good VGA (from mid-range Maxwell) and decent amount of RAM (8GB bare minimum, 16GB is nice).

Thank you. If those lower CPU's will support 144hz, then I have nothing to worry about CPU wise.

As I am researching (and asking questions) I'm finding a GPU 1060 6gb or a Gtx980/gtz 1070 may be overkill for keeping quakelive at 144hz on 144hz monitor?

I was at first conflicted because Other gaming forums recommended 1070/980 at least for high graphics 144hz. Quakelive is so much less graphics wise.

So I guess what I'm asking is, if the cpu's you stated can support 144hz quakelive, would a much less powerful GPU than a gtx 980/1060 6Gb keep 144hz going on a 144hz monitor? Im not sure whats required to keep that rate steady on a nice moinitor. Thank you.

If QL is the only priority, depending on the resolution and GFX-settings, even a DDR3 Radeon HD5450 is enough. That's like $15 on the 2nd-hand market. Had it, was flawless, but havent tried 1080p with it as I play in low res.

I'm pretty sure that a GT730 is a safe bet. Or you can go with 2nd-hand HD4850 / 4870 for instance. That should be around 20-25 bucks.

If you want to play with other games with some decency as well, get an overclocked 2GB GTX 750 Ti. EVGA SC models are nice and are about $135-140, brand new.

Heh. So looking at gtx 980/1060, and i5-4790k processor was waaaaay overpowered for what i need. By about 15 times lol.

Per your last paragraph, ill probably get something in between all of these. That way I CAN play other games, when i get bored. Thanks a bunch!

Well, Quake Live can run on a toaster, pretty much.


If you are not an 1080p@ultra@60 fps with the newest titles-guy, an EVGA 750Ti SC will be a good road to take. 60W max. TDP and not even 6 / 8 pin PCI-E power needed.

Or an 1050Ti - but obviously, that'll cost a bit more.

Thanks so much for your help.

One last question for now. Earlier you pointed out that I would miss out on ddr4 ram with a 4790k.

does all ram work just as well for an older game like this? Would ddr2/ddr3 work just as well for quake live,Or would ddr4 help with rending picture on screen ? thanks!

If Quake Live is the only factor, even DDR400 is fine. What matters is strong single core performance (basically any Intel CPU from Nehalem - heck, even from Core 2-class Conroe on WinXP), at least 2 GB RAM (depending on OS, Win7 likes 4 GB more) and a decent DX9 VGA. Haven't tried stable 250 fps with these, but 125 fps is a sure thing with higher picmip + no bloom on sub-1080p.

Earlier, I had a Celeron G1620 (mind you, its single core performance is a bit better than an i7-920) + 4 GB + HD5450 512MB DDR3 and I played legoQuake at stable 250 fps on any map @ 640 x 480 / 800 x 600, while some minor applications were running in the background.

If you are thinking about brand new stuff, a Haswell / Skylake Pentium G / i3 + 4GB RAM + GT 740 will suffice (unless you want to stream).

IMPORTANT

10 series nvidia cards do NOT run CRT's, they have no analog connection at all, only dvi-d.


I am a CRT user and bought a 980Ti as I am avoiding lcd's until 240hz and decent colors, which could be a long time lol.

This is not an issue in the last 10 years. D-Sub-DVI converters are like $2, many times included in the VGA box.

Yes, they convert from DVI-I or DVI-A , NOT DVI-D.
10 series cards have only DVI-D.
You need an active converter, they are expensive, and shit.

From wikipedia...

A passive DVI-to-VGA adapter. This adapter will not work with a DVI-D output. It requires a DVI-I or DVI-A output to get the analog signal to a VGA input (even if the adapter looks like a DVI-D). A more expensive active adapter (or converter) is required to connect DVI-D to VGA.

Hmm, will look into this further.


How about DP-D-sub converters? You can find ones for about $10-15.

Edit: just found the active DVI-D-D-Sub converters. Same as above, about $15 what I found. If that's the case, that still isn't such a big amount like the price difference between a 144Hz TN and a CRT (which is like $200 at the very least).

They create lag..... no good for gaming. Save your time, I already did the research when changing my GPU ;)

Can you link some reviews that you deemed adequate?

Was months ago, but from what i remember the cheaper adaptors didn't work in a reliable fashion, and the expensive ones worked fine but still introduced lag. Anything that has to convert digital to analog will introduce some lag,

With the old type adaptor you first mentioned, the analog is already there, it's the four pins on the end of a DVI-I. As soon as you start talking active converters you have to remember you could be plugging in some $20 piece of shit converter between a $500 GPU and a $200 monitor, would you feel comfortable with it? :)

No, because if I have a $200 monitor (assuming I don't buy crap for that money) and a $500 GPU, I don't need any converter. : D

Anyway, the point is that I didn't want this guy getting confused. 10 series cards and CRT's are not simply plug and play like they used to be with earlier GPU's ))

lol nerd know all this things about this objects

paid for this just 532 € / i hope it will work for all ? ( an future upgrade is possible )

- graphic and video editing
- games like quake champions
- webdesign + php programming
- streaming

Ankermann-PC WildRabbit Gamer
Intel Core i5-6600K 4x3.50GHz Skylake
ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1070 8GB GAMING
8GB DDR4 PC-2133
240 GB SSD
2000 GB
be quiet! Pure Power 9 600W CM
Scythe KATANA 4 CPU Cooler

how so cheap? link

This one: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01DADJ30Q/ref=wl_it...IWRBIGWHL1

only T1E knows the future

some recent games are capable of using more than 4 cpu cores or utilizing hyper-threading. and higher memory speeds can increase fps. that's something to keep in mind for future-proofing your build, for games at least.

if you are into video editing then i recommend going for m.2 disks and with it reducing loading/saving of large files. And if you are really into video editing then go for CPU that have 20mg L2 cache, that will also help with faster loads and rendering.

You can wait for comments from quakers or reviews of new 144Hz VA panel with new strobing tech by Samsung. May be it will be a decent monitor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ore6DeSGLfQ
Yeah it's curved and can not match your video editing needs but colors are best on market of 144Hz atm http://blog.naver.com/kayu3321/220831187428
Model is Samsung C24FG70 and just released.

put it in a mini-itx

http://pc4u.org/guide-for-building-a-cheap-gaming-pc-with-a-rx480/

Intel Core i7 6700K
MSI Z170A Gaming M3
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz
Enermax Liqmax II 240 90
WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache
Samsung SSD 750 EVO 250GB SSD
Seasonic M12II 620 BRONZE
Phanteks Phanteks Enthoo PRO

I would wait for Vega and Zen. Even if you have no interest in getting AMD it will lower intel/nvidia prices. It's just like 3 months away.

The prospect of a cheap 8c/16t zen cpu that roughly competes with intel single thread is very intriguing.

guys i want a new PC too

if i build the EXCELLENT tier on logical increments?

will this price fall in the new year 2017??

The best gaming PC you could afford with your budget is CYBERPOWERPC Gamer Xtreme VR Gaming Desktop.
https://www.bestadvisor.com/best-gaming-pcs
It has quality modern components, in compare with other PCs in this price range. Just read some reviews about it.
I have been using this model for 2 years and there was no problem with any game.

Whatever PSU (bet it's a not-modular cheap something), trash case (for the price), only 1 TB HDD (bet it's some cheap Toshiba / Seagate ), no SSD (lol), stock CPU-cooling, RAM CL13?, LG ODD?, which GTX1060?, $1200.

Would never buy. Much better and balanced rig in #2 for 1000 EUR. If you put that +$200 to the budget, you can easily switch to i7.