For people wondering if this was from a twitch stream or something it's from the gameplay trailer.

30 seconds for easier coutning... it's obvious that they are dumbing the game down for complete brainless casuals.

more like copy-pasting from Xonotic where all the items has the same respawn time - 30

It could be 4*6=24

no, it would't look that intuitive for the end users

4.16666667*6=25 then

1 part is missing, maybe it's just 5x5...

item timers gg... we will see if they let us disable this for classic competitive play. be sure the timers will be part of theeir beloved new team modes that they will be pushing to get popular

I would much rather they just create a solid Duel, TDM, CTF, CA, FFA and then whatever else they want to add and then during beta give each mode some attention based on what needs to change and then just let the cream rise to the top.

I am not really interested in the new modes I heard about and mostly want to see what QC Duel and CTF will be like. But I have a strong feeling I wont get to see them at big lans from ID and they wont get the developer support needed to make them complete

People seem to miss the fact that the only thing you need to create and fine tune is duel. When you have balanced dueling you can automatically create whatever kind of mode you want.

If you have duel the game is done:

put 4 people on a map and you have FFA, but people in different teams you have 2v2, 4v4 with 8 people.

Stick flags on the map and you have CTF

Do whatever kind of map you want and you have a new game mode.

Not really, different item setups would suit duel better than tdm and vice versa.

That's just small details, if you have functioning duel you can do anything else, but it you cannot really do vice versa.

> fine tune is duel

vs

> have functioning duel

Which one is it - functioning duel is not necessarily fine tuned. My point is that if you fine tune it for duel it is tuned away from other game types.

If your initial post was "functional" and did not include the word "perfectly" I would not have posted.

You are working on the assumption that an armor/health/respawn setup for duel works perfectly for all other gametypes. This is wrong. It works for other gametypes in a functional manner but it is not fine tuned or perfect.

who gives a fuck about item timers? no one's complaining about it in ut or ow from what i can tell.

People who still think that QC will somehow satisfy hardcore Q3 players.

i'm pretty sure that having item timers won't impact the skill ceiling and any other bullshit quakers invented to have themselves believe they're special, along with quakers have easiest time to switch games because. just because.

You'd have to be pretty darn silly to think that item timing doesnt A) give you an advantage and B) require some mental capacity which could be used elsewhere

Very few players can time 4 items for example, but if they could they would have an advantage over players that cant, but then they would have to decide if its worth using all their available brain space on that or just timing mega and using the rest of their brain space on other things

Its an optional skill that is easy by itself, hard to execute in tandem with everything else involved in a duel game, it adds to the total potential mental strain and sets players apart (eg. people who focus heavily on second timing, players who use feel, players who use a mixture and the different emphasis they put on it)

And you get all that dope shit by just turning off item timers. I agree that timing isnt some rain man skill that makes quake players a bunch of brain wizards, but the point is that its adding to the list of things you can choose to think about. The game would be boring if players had the capacity to think about everything in it, the point is that you can prioritize and that nobody will ever be able to keep track of everything, and the more things you can keep track of (combined with good prioritisation) the better player you will be

Timing is not fun (it's math) and isn't much of a FPS skill to begin with (it's math).

Timing is in the realm of math, true. But most timing in games is more of a trained sense on how much time gone by. At least that's how the armor timing goes. Mega is a quake glance at the clock and a simple deduction.

I'argue that ''sensing'' the items is fun.

Whether its fun or not is down to personal taste. By itself timing isnt something I would enjoy at all, just like how by itself timing isnt difficult at all

But timing in the context of a duel as an optional thing you can do to gain an advantage brings something very worthwhile to the table in my book.

If you dont like it and dont find it fun then you dont have to do it, but the point is that it allows players who want to play that style a way to do that. People like Rapha and Zorak for example who time 3 or 4 items and players like Fazz who dont time at all (I think)

Much more interesting to have that variation between players than to just rip it out and whack an item timer in there instead

And thats without even going into all the cool mindgamey and thoughtful play that goes into delaying items, gathering information on pickup times and all that other stuff that would be negated by pie timers

current dueling in quake will never be popular because of the skillset it requires..the majority of that being item timing. it's unintuitive (adds to the list of unintuitive things about quake) and simply not a fun mechanic to most people

there are basically no games where that skill is transferable to...dueling isn't something you could just pick up and be good at once you learn the mechanics (by which i mean weapon/movement, which is what should primarily matter along with positioning)

I'm not arguing that its intuitive, just that it has an impact on the overall skill ceiling of the game as esdf said it wouldnt

I'm fine with timing being removed, as long as the game is shaken up enough to add some depth or some added capacity for mental strain elsewhere

Making the game easier to make it more popular isnt something I'm interested in. Removing something un-intuitive that adds to the skill ceiling and replacing it with something intuitive that also adds to the skill ceiling is just fine with me

I just have a feeling that nothing will be implemented to replace whatever depth is lost by removing timing

They like items, as we all do here and items will be in QC as well. The game having items spawning and multiple corners are what allow them to play like that. Having to time said items on your head is a different topic, and in itself is not what allows item-based strategies.

With timers it is still possible to delay items and have every single strategy QL players use today. We don't know how they will be implemented in QC, but in other games the item timer is available only if you or your teammates saw it being picked up. Therefore, it's the exact same thing in the game as in QL today, and timing on your head does not add depth to the game.

The only difference is practical (not in-game), which is that the game won't alienate players because some old school players have a skill that only this one game requires. QL is the only current game (with more than 2 players) that still has that archaic mechanic; a thing that is not fun itself, is not intuitive for new players and is a unnecessary complication in a FPS game. Having to time items even alienates old school players, such as Makaveli who has posted here he doesn't play because of having to time items, because it's a taxing and an unrelated requirement to play a FPS.

With timers it isnt possible to have every single item related strategy QL players use today. Many of them, sure, but not all of them. Or at least some of them would be easier.

There are however different implementations that could facilitate this a little bit more, but at some point somewhere, something is being made easier, or some type of play is being cut out

As I said to phazon, I'm not arguing to keep item timing, they can remove it for all I care, but dont JUST remove it. Dont take out this huge aspect of duel and replace it with nothing. Shake the game up so much that all this new depth and strategic opportunities come from a shitload of new places, and have item timers, that would be fine. But dont just have duel identical to how it is now, but with added abilities and removed timing

Thats not enough and is just the game getting that little bit easier and that little bit less interesting. More approachable sure, but I'd rather the best possible game and 10 players than 10,000 players and a worse game

Such as?

With timers players can still delay items, take the risk of peeking when at low health just to see when the item is picked up to get the timer, set traps, do a rotation, etc. It's just that players won't have to think of "5 = 30" when doing so, because that non-game process will be automated.

The core game itself (the non math part) remains 100% the same, not better nor worse, because to see the timer or know when the item is going to respawn then you still have to have seen the item being picked up before. Same as it is today.

I think the problem is that you are looking at the matter as if duel was going to be the main competitive mode, like in Q3 and QL. In QC there's absolutely no chance of duel being the main competitive gametype, because this time around there will be a main gametype (with objectives as shown at Quakecon) instead of 23423 being developed at the same time with the same priority. When you look at the issue as now teams having to go to items, having to organize themselves to get them, then I think you'll see for team based gametypes item timers are a necessity.

because to see the timer or know when the item is going to respawn then you still have to have seen the item being picked up before.

Where are you getting this from? Has this been announced? That if you pickup the item you get to see the respawn timer but the other player doesnt unless they witnessed the pickup?

In this case, keeping track of an item spawn for the incontrol player would be easier. Especially on smaller maps where you often can see the item spawn location as you move around doing other things

Providing you witness the pickup or do the pickup, you can never have a major misstime again. So in all those games where a player has fucked up the times on an item and is standing on the spot when all the specs can see it isnt up for 17 seconds, that will never happen as long as they can gather the initial information because they have a clear indicator of their error before it becomes a problem

So in this example thats how it becomes much easier

Its not a huge deal, but my point was that adding timers will either rule out certain item based strategies or make some of them easier, depending on the implementation

And I dont want them to just make something easier without compensating for it elsewhere

It has not, but that's how timers work in other games. Don't need to pick the item, just to see it being picked up.

The only difference is that misstiming wouldn't be a thing. Miss timing happens not because of the player being bad at FPS games or at Quake, but because he sucks at simple math. Not a FPS skill.

If Quakers wanted to play a complex game they would be playing chess or starcraft. Not the case. We like Quake because it's fun, not because it's complex. Having to remember that 5=30 is not why we have fun playing Quake.

Thats down to preference. The decision making and information gathering aspect of Quake is the most interesting part to me

If mechanical skill, aim and movement were the bits that interested me most I'd probably play Reflex or CPMA instead of QL

The information gathering and the decision making will be the exact same. You couldn't tell me a single example of what part of information gather and decision making would be different, or simpler.

The only thing that won't be needed is to look at the match timer ("clock") on top of the screen. That is not a skill. That doesn't make Quake be a harder game either, just a more annoying to play one.

The sole difference in gameplay would be that players won't lose matches anymore because of them failing to count, which is something not a part of Quake itself. And BTW, misstiming making a player lose to match is something very rare at top level. I can't remember even three matches in QL's history.

And the information will be freely available to all players at all times with the most likely implementation of pie timers

As opposed to having to gather it and remember it (or decide if you want to bother remembering it or not). Now its just there

Not complaining, because fuck knows what QC duel will be like as a whole, but the game doesnt stay the same when you hand out this information and players dont have the option of concealing it

Name me one game that has all the timing information freely available to all players at all times. Just one. I tell you this because in all others it works just like I told you, with the player or his team having to look at the item being picked up, which is the same way it works in Q3.

And again, I don't see the point of discussing this based on duel, when we should look at this as team based. QC competitions won't feature duel as the main gametype, because QC will have a main gametype (first Quake like that ever) and it will be team based. Duel's time period and that gametype is a thing of the past.

I'm taking this based off how the timers in QL worked. In truth it makes no odds to me at this point, but given that pie timers in the way I'm describing have already been introduced into the most recent quake game by sync and sponge who are working on QC, I think its the most likely scenario

But sure, it could be a different implementation. I think the one you're suggesting sounds more interesting

I like quake, mostly because is complex and I think that I am not alone in this

if I though it was easy, I would had stopped playing it

Why not get rid of strafe jumping? It's been said that it's an archaic, overly complicated, and unituitive mechanic that hinders [new] players. There's still plenty of movement without strafe jumping, so why keep it in? Is there any other game (with more than 2 players) that has strafe jumping? I would say the concept of timing items is something a new player is far more likely to grasp once they're told the amount of time for each item than strafe jumping.

Strafe jumping is fun and easy to learn. The vast majority of Quake players strafe jump to some degree. Timing is not fun and difficult to achieve. The vast majority of Quake players do not time in any fashion.

Easy to learn? I don't know how many times over the years I've read the argument about strafe jumping being unnecessarily hard to grasp and it handicapping newcomers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they add the ability to qlive where one only needed to hold +forward and use jump to accelerate? I mean, if we're talking about unintuitive mechanics, strafe jumping has to be the epitome of that.

Don't get me wrong, I love strafe jumping, that's a huge part of what quake is about to me. But if we're talking about things that make little sense outside of quake, strafe jumping should probably be #1.

Well, comparatively easy to learn then. I agree it's counter-intuitive though and people who don't even try to learn it probably think it's difficult to do so and so unfair.
You're right that it can be a barrier that keeps people away from the game. Hopefully they won't just take away everything that can be a barrier, because we'd end up with a game I probably wouldn't be interested in.

i loved the days when you found a non intentional mechanic and use it to your advantage and later see, how community grows with it. ...

What in the hell are you talking about? You still need to think about when the items spawn, you still need to think about prioritizing item pickups, you still need to do everything you've done so far.

It doesn't substract from your skillset, it just adds a bit of a % to inferior player's chance to interfere with your plans.

And also, no game in the world limits or decides the skill ceiling, it's only up to player performance. So your skill ceiling will still stay quite high as long as quite good players are playing.

Yeah you'd still have to do tons of shit with item timers, but theres some stuff you wouldnt or some stuff that would be easier is my point.

Like for example, if there was a basic item timer that both players could see (as is probably the case with QC), then never again can a player try to trick their opponent into thinking an item is up earlier than it actually is, because his opponent can just see when its up

People wont have to keep track of item times in their head anymore or at least mental timing would be less useful when you can see when each item is coming up

So thats an example of 1 thing that would no longer be possible and one thing that just got easier by adding timers.

Again, for the third time in this thread, I'm not saying I dont want item timers. I was just pointing out to you that timing adds value to duel, even if it isnt the rain man skill some people make it out to be. It contributes to the mass of things you can think about and sets players apart

I personally hope QC duel is shaken up so much from the standard duel we have had for a while now so that new skill sets and requirements come in from different mechanics, and would be perfectly fine if timing wasnt one of them but something else replaced it. Would make the game more intuitive but have it remain as interesting

This is a huge mistake to make game for all 17 hardcore Quake players.

finally someone sane on this god forsaken site

Nice bait.

im more bothered by that railgun model tbh

this tbh

overdesigned is an understatement

Just noticed it because of this post. Does anyone have any ideas what that second barrel on the left is supposed to be? Looks really out of place. The rest sorta looks like a crocodile, which I don't mind too much, but I was expecting rail to look at least a bit more like it did in q2 or q3.

Shh, they have yet to introduce alternate fire.

thats exactly what i sound like after half a bottle of whisky

in the trailer it seems to act as an intermediate container for the shit it squirts out when firing

so no real function apart from blocking your view

cg_drawgun 0

For real, terrible

:D

WHEN?
H
E
N
?

Doesn't matter if you only play a hero with regenerating armour or infinite armour.

IS THAT DM6???

i want quake life + btetter grafix + blunt + world peace

i think im gonna throw up

And am here hoping for a 25 seconds Armors and 30 seconds weapons and MH system like in q2 ( start counting 20 seconds from the moment your hp reaches 100 )

two things:

1. this is a COMPLETELY different meta game...characters with varying stats and abilities, and apparently a new tournament-standard game mode. what worked in q3a =/= will certainly work in qc.

2. could just be testing 30 seconds, doesn't mean it's set in stone

opposed to those ground timers, maybe when you pick up an item have it timestamp when it'll be up again so people don't have to worry about doing math in their head. believe it or not, this is a huge reason of why people quit/play gametypes like CA,whether they want to admit it or not...it's so freaking unintuitive and not a transferable skill to any other game

Yeah you can't just apply our old Quake thinking to Quake MOBA. It's a different game.

Yeah you can't just apply our old Quake thinking to Quake MOBA. It's a different game.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2643655/re-the-...pid2643865

Makes total sense to push this, timing and item control shouldn't be about complicated counting. Making the calculation easier is the right way to go and probably makes more impact than you'd imagine.

Larger intervals add more time for action, but could lead to the stronger player controlling more items, that's what the 20s yellow is for. To make it harder to control everyting.

QL tried item pickup times, item timers on the items and iirc other things too in focus group, this is better.

Another option is how item pickup works. Let's say both players are near the item when it spawns, you will get it? The one that is a 1/125 second closer to the item spawn time :) That's more luck than anything. Rather make the item "pulse" it's bonus or something, the one who is closer getting the bigger percentage or something.
On the other hand - this could be overdesigned if let's say every health bubble and shard works the same way

I just hope the respawning times (and weapon damages) are consistent across all gametypes. That "pro TDM" thing was bullshit.

Make it 1 minute, for sure

SyncError - Today at 10:15 PM
Btw saying armor = 30s isn't exactly correct, and item timings have changed since the Qcon build.

On discord

This means it's gonna be 29.3333333333

SyncError - Today at 10:15 PM
Btw saying armor = 30s isn't exactly correct



Omg they really hear us and make game perfect as we wish (no)

nice dream

idc the exact values as long as its staggered across items and you still have to keep track yourself. I would even maybe prefer 30 sec because I am mentally handicapped and all these 35s and 25s are a pain in my ass

math is no fun, but timing something precisely without the game spoon feeding it to you is

Is Hugo Martin and Mick Gordon invovled in this project? ... Hugos opinion matters.

... ever since i saw noclip documentarys i have the up most respect for this guy, for realizing and bringing back that doom feel,"robocop badassery" and just blunt cliche awerness.

People arguing about changed item timers and horrific gun-models. I on the other hand look @ that picture and see a butchered and UT-esque DM6 pillar area. 8---C

High chance it's possible to disable gun-models in options since this has been possible in all Quakes as far as I know.

There also could be modified item times for different/hybrid gamemodes/skill level which could be a good thing, since we need more people to play the game longer than 3-4 hours before quitting to the sheer amount of rape and difficulty getting better at the game, knowing there are OW/CoD/LoL/[insert more accesible game here] to go (back) to if they fail in QC.

Maybe the items' behaviour and programming are bound to skill-tiers, making the game more forgivable @ the lower end of the spectrum and thus more attractive for the new folks and also giving them a step-by-step introduction to the higher skill tier.

I'm pretty certain that the seasoned and totally newbie Quake players will get the appropiate content to make them enjoy the game.

You guys on the other hand should try, just for the sake of trying to stop posting utterly negative comments about the game and try to make supporting comments or give suggestions about how to make the game better.

There is a chance this community gets heard, we all know Sync and Noctis read ESR, and maybe some devs or people involved in QC are eyeing these threads also. If we keep spewing negativity and show 0 support and keep rediculing the developement of QC there is a big chance we get ignored and will be seen as a bigoted-hard-letting-go-elitist bunch of crybabies instead of people who are genuinely hoping for a great Quake successor.

Lets not get shut-out because of our undisciplined and hateful behaviour (before the game even gets out).

Go back to your safe space and cry about it.

i think noctis is key here.

What Australia have to do with this?

import of snow kangaroo

I kinda want to look up old reflex timer threads cos I would not be surprised if the same people defending timers now lost their shit completely when reflex did it (tho to be fair pie timers on item =/= global hud timers)