i think that zhu is playing with wmo, maybe you should ask him

:D

Just buy a new mouse like the wmo, it's outdated anyway

dno which one, i like the loose buttons of the wmo alot :/

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-gb/product/g502...ming-mouse

Not like the wmo, but it's the best mouse because I said so

You could also use it as a substitute for free weights or as a brick in a construction project. 5/5

Implying that it's at all heavy even with all 5 extra 3.5g weights inside of it.

Implying that 120-140g depending on how many weights you have in is light in comparison to this generation's mice that are sub 90g.

I'll stick with my Kinzu that weighs literally half of that flail.

Not meaning to sound like a douche, but holding 120-140g is nothing

it depends on your grip style

and how hard you "press the mouse"

WMO IN 2017 LUL
WMO
IN
2017
LUL

I have a few in very good shape. I'd be willing to sell more than one. PM me if you're interested.

im very intrested!

WMO is a bit dated now, time for an upgrade, I've got 3 of the black/grey ones lying around somewhere.

Out of all the gaming mice out there, Logitech are far superior to all of them. Razer are okay but they just break so easily and that's coming from someone who has had mice last like 10+ years and the only times I've actually broken them are out of stupidity like spilling a drink etc.

Now Steelseries are really good too, but they have such a high failure rate out of the boxes and issues with the software/windows OS it's worth the risk trying them but I'd order it directly from their site because their RMA's are pretty awesome.

There are a few of the other brands like Zowie etc but I probably wouldn't ever use one of them due to two of them just being shit straight out of the box.

The ninox aurora was amazing and still is if you're not one a mouse2 user for jump.

You gotta make the change bruv, you'll see a massive improvement after a few days of practice.







or you'll get pissed and go back to CRT like you did when you got your new gaming monitor lol q:D (Speaking in mouse relation terms.)

im stuck on IMO

what is a more modern mouse i can go to that is good for quack and similars ?? =]

i will send u a fizzle packet in exchange for good advices

The Fizzle IMO Mouse..


Constantly smoking and talking ghetto terms. Sounds like a good buddy Mouse!

where can i buy him ??? =]<o~~~

that is very accurate :p

No it's not, Steelseries is shit, Zowie is pretty good, ninox was a failure

you won't see many improvements over wmo because the wmo sensor is near prefect, not much room for improvement. maybe higher perfect control speed will help a little

Zowie mice are not anywhere near good, especially for the ECx-A which has horribad quality control and their click delay is god awful in comparison to literally every other mouse on the market that's not some no name trash.

I never tried a Zowie mouse. the FK1(+) and FK2 are well received was my impression.
Sad to hear about ec click delay, it's always a shame when such mistakes happen to gaming mouse brands.

oh man, QC. It is bad for all the big brands, where ever you look.

I had such issues with logitech, first with g100s, then g303. In the end I got my money back and a replacement, allright I guess, but the time wasted was ridiculous...

What you need is your social security to take custody over your children.

sounds like a familiar place for you :p

rofl :D

There's more: the buttons have 10 ms latency more than a modern mouse, you can only play at 125 hz unless you install a unofficial driver trough enabling safe mode etc., and you can only have 450 dpi max

That wasn't supposed to be a complete list of all the crap that makes the mouse medieval, it was just my personal experience with the WMOs. I used them like 10 years ago or so, I can't even remember when I started considering them as outdated.

True, on Windows7 you would need to force test mode to overclock beyond 125Hz and there was just one single inaccurate dpi step, also I saw a lot of people complaining about M1/2 getting loose quickly. As far as button delay goes, I didn't know about that, because as people started testing mice for this attribute I already didn't think that a WMO is a sane choice for my usage.

hidusbf is a signed driver now so no need for test mode for it to work.

Afaik also Sweetlow's tool to overclock beyond 1000Hz got signed, doesn't bother me that much since modern mice do 1000Hz plug&play anyway, for about 6 years by now.

I considered them outdated when 800*600 was.

hell yea dude, i can't believe the difference between 800x600 to 1024x768! this truly is the future!!

just fyi wmo is "stable" up tp 8000Hz! no modern mouse can do this. not that is has any use, just facts check

wmo is "stable" up tp 8000Hz

Well putting the word stable into quotation marks already shows that you must have a pretty weird definition for stability. The WMOs I had ran stable up to 500Hz, when I set 1000Hz the rate heavily fluctuated inbetween 500...1000Hz while other mice performed well on the same system, forcing 1000Hz made the rate instable and also didn't raise the maximum speed above 1.5m/s, that is why most users set 500Hz.

True, further excessive overclocking is pointless, even for most modern mice, because:
a) the sensor itself has a lower framerate (afaik 6500Hz on Logitech G Pro)
b) the raw sensor frame data ain't necessarily accessible by the usb interface and
c) humans won't register any difference in responsivness going from 1000Hz to 2000Hz.
It is like running a 144Hz monitor with a 60fps game.

yeah the quotationmarks were because of the loose terminology.

1000Hz wmo feels pretty good to me. mouserate checker shows close to 1000hz at fast movements, when it matters...

maybe your way of measuring is not correct? did you think of that?
imo the term "stable" should be used when actual use experience shows unstable behavior, not when some generic measurement setup shows it (because that might lead to misinterpretations)


humans will register differences. I feel a difference from 500 to 1000 hz. those are just not as noticable as the first steps, from 125 to 250 to 500.

anyways, as I stated, fact is you can overclock the wmo ("stable" ;) to a whooping 8000hz, something which afaik no other mouse can do

but the question is, what's the purpose of having 8000hz when 1000hz = 1ms ?

no it's not

In my experience different WMOs handle overclocking differently. Only one of mine is stable on 1000hz. I still stick to 500hz though because I'm certain any perceivable difference is placebo.

Blind tests @ lan pls.

some years ago when wmo was my main mouse I did the blind test and could tell 500 from 1000 hz.

but not by accuracy, by feel. it feels slightly different, like initial movements and small movements.

I'm really curious how that test looked like, can you please elaborate on that test in detail.

sure, nothing fancy: a friend sitting next to me set the hz and I was guessing the setting.

How many repeats and how often you were right?

I was right a couple times, which proved my point at the time that it was possible to discern

oh yeah, well it could have been luck as well. but I was totally convinced as I tried for myself before. we did not want to make a science out of it at the time

Being right a couple of times with a 50% chance ain't that hard.
>:p

yeah isn't that true? where would you close that argument though? you can guess 50/50 correct for 10 times in a row. In fact you can guess it right almost infinitely (unlikely, but it can happen!). because that's the true nature of probability... :P

True, that is why I would reduce the chance of random hits, if it only is {500, 1000}Hz you got a 50% chance for a lucky hit, but with {500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000}Hz it shrinks to 20%.
If remember correctly in a documentary about people claiming to have paranormal abilities, an institute used 10 repeats with a 1 out of 10 chance to debunk them, target was being right 50+% of the repeats.

EDIT: Well I remembered wrong, they use 13 repeats with a 1 out of 10 chance, while being right in 2 repeats is random luck and the target is being right in atleast 7 repeats (50+%).
But to be honest, I already would be pretty impressed if you managed to be right 6 of 10 repeats with a 1 out of 5 chance.
Unfortunately the documentary is in german:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_a1DIJV2Kk

mouserate checker shows close to 1000hz at fast movements

Coming close to 1000Hz is quite cute but not stable 1000Hz and 1.5m/s ain't a fast movement.

Why should I doubt my tests when other mice passed them? Even with a systematic flaw the relative comparison to other mice would be sufficient to judge that WMOs aren't as stable nor fast as the others above 500Hz, multiple people concluded the same and used 500Hz.

imo the term "stable" should be used when actual use experience shows unstable (I assume you meant "unstable") behavior, not when some generic measurement setup shows it

You couldn't be more wrong, personal feeling = voodoo << ... << reproducible measurement, all day every day; trust me, I am an engineer.

You already said on your own that 8000Hz doesn't have "any use", why you keep repeating the 8000Hz thing like it is some kind of magic feature to go for? Do you want to create the most responsive 1.5m/s-400dpi-toaster?
Such a low measurement interval is required when you got processes at excessively high velocities or abrupt changes due to massive accelerations, because of sensor limitations the WMO goes nuts at 1.5m/s and spins out on accelerations from wrist aim no matter what Hz you set, so what is the point?
Especially considering that the coarse 400dpi grid will then shit even more on the rather small directional changes of the low interval reports (similar to anglesnapping).
My "G Pro" does 1000Hz plug&play while it handles accelerations of 392m/s^2 up to velocities of 7.6m/s. Why would I need to overclock it above 1000Hz and what accelerations/velocities does the WMO reach at 8000Hz? (This is a rhetorical question, I already know that the WMo sucks balls no matter what Hz you set.)

heh. as much as that means, I'm an electrical engineer as well

I read for the first time in this thread that the overclocking capability of wmo/imo/ie3.0 varied between production models, maybe that makes the difference in this case?

In my opinion the feel does matter more than reading a graph especially for gaming, while both feel and graph together obviously have the most significance. so just to make sure you would not blindly interpret hz readings, I wrote that

purpose of stating this fact....I did already state, twice, I was only checking the facts about wmo... ;)

agreed there is no real use in overclocking higher than, say, 1000 hz from a performance perspective.
still, there is a difference between those settings. maybe someone prefers ultra high polling, if it does not cost anything besides setting a program checkmark..?

It is a fact (mechanical) and a reference to a comedy video on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8hvyjZWHs

I rely on my own measurements of several WMOs and multiple people on the internet confirming that WMOs went instable above 500Hz.
But it is possible that they vary depending on batch run, could be another reason why people measured that the WMO's dpi-range varies from 380dpi to 450dpi.

Actually I would prefer to blindly rely upon good test data, over using a human body to measure responsiveness differences in the realm of 1ms and below.

There is a downside to excessive overclocking, usb interupts will eat more cpu and in the worst case, the mouse melts because it never was designed for such usage nor gaming.

8000hz graph^
The dpi changes slightly how worn the mousefeet are and also versus cloth and noncloth mousepad, Ie the closer the sensor is too the pad the dpi will be slightly higher. This is for all mouseses, since the same movement will look faster for the sensor if it moved closer to the pad.
Also wmo isnt unstable on hz. Hz dependens on movement, hold mouse still its 0hz move it slow it will report less. Also lower dpi mouse will report less on smal movements, u have to move it 1/400 of a inch to report, wheres a 1800dpi mouse will report many times same distance. Thats why many prefer 400 dpi for fps games giving more stable aim.

Is this trolling or are you serious?

Your plot confirms instable behaviour. Just look at the continuous line of the local datapoint's average, aswell as the fluctuation of the points.
I don't even fully understand wtf the graph is supposed to plot:
8000[Hz] = 8000[reports/s] = 8000[reports/1000ms] = 80[reports/10ms]
So at the ordinate's height of 8000[Hz] you should have about 80 datapoints in every 10[ms] intervall of the abscissa, well you only got about 30 datapoints in each.

What? A mouse mouse doesn't send reports when not moved and dpi varies upon the mousepad aswell as the distance between the lense and surface? Tell me that in the 90s.

I bought wmo 2 years ago wanted to test it but it didnt work quiet well for me too low LOD. Im not even sure if it was an oroginal since it was "steelseries" logo on it. It was wmo 1.1 or something like that. I have gave this mice to my bro, but he switched back to DA in a week or so. I can ship this for free if mouse is still aval. It was bought on ebay shipped from china... That mouse sucked big time for me:)

- http://esreality.com/post/2765041/wrong-wmo/ post of me

you need to compare the first P/N number underneeth the mouse, X8022382-003 is a genuine wmo. yours is probably one of those later manufactured chinese fake ones

Brother said that mouse worked pretty good, but its not for him. Back then I didnt know about mouse LOD. I have been playing all the time with razer mice which have high LOD. I asked him and he have no clue where mouse is. I would have shipped to you if it was aval.

I might find one or two from ebay i guess, they are not expensive.. its just overseas shipping costs are redicilous high >_<

Whats all this stuff about wmo's being dated? didn't rapha win quakecon 2016 with a wmo? didnt toxic, rapha and cyhper use wmo quakecon 2015?
I think almost all quakecons was won with a wmo

Rapha won quakecon in spite of using a wmo

rapha, cypher, toxic etc. all tried newer mice and always came back to wmo

cypher using fk2 i believe... you gotta move on sometime )

yes.
it might have to do with him playing overwatch and no ingame option for mouseaccel. with cypher's low base sens of around 35cm/360 it is tougher to use without accel if you are so used to quick turns

rapha is using deathadder chroma now. better choice imo, it's snappier then the zowie's I heard. more raw input like wmo

who knows! you do realise his accel in quake is like nothing.

imo it was high enough to never hit the negative accel or malfunction speed

the one flaw of wmo, low negative accel threshold could be compensated by accel
famous wmo players who did not use accel either used higher base sens (toxic) or adapted to a style not doing very fast swipes (pony)

the one flaw of wmo, low negative accel threshold could be compensated by accel

No, the WMO will start malfunctioning at movements of 1.5m/s (horizontal axis) while sending wrong reports to the system/game (vertical axis), no matter what ingame acceleration you apply, see IME3.0 that has the same sensor:

I think you misunderstood, I mean you put as much mouseaccel, so you do not need to move the mouse over 1,5 m/sec ever.

Of course you could still hit the malfunction speed, but ingame you would totally spazz out and do several 360 turns, in other words pointless movements.

In this case I really misunderstood it, because I assumed you try to apply ingame acceleration until the curve gets bend straight, which is impossible.

This is wrong, the wmo/ime3.0 sensor will never start going vertical if you move to fast in a horisontal direction. It will instead continue going fast in horisontal direction, but the speed will not increase, like a speed cap. (up to 2m'/s)
One could argue that the speed cap could even be beneficial, since the time for doing a 180 is constant, and not the distance. So even if you overshots the movement for a quick turn but time it right it is spot on.
But in reality it is almost impossible to hit the malfunction speed of 1,5ms. I can put a stick on mousepad, do a 360 to the right from the stick and hit it as fast i can back to the stick and its always at the same spot ingame as starting point. And that speed is usually lower than one ever have to use in gaming.

The graph there dont show vertical/horisontal movement

It's really not hard to hit the malfunction speed if you try (with sens around 3-4.5), but as a practical matter it's never really an issue ingame unless you're at 125hz and not using accel. Even then it's more an inconvenience than anything. You could get used to it if you wanted.

Ok, now I am sure it is trolling.

With horizontal/vertical-axis I referred to the abscissa/ordinate of the graph that I posted, not the movement directions of the mouse. I thought the end of that text makes it clear.

Yeah sure, negative hardware acceleration is a beneficial future and dancing in it, will give you a constant turning time, dream on.

You can't hit 1.5m/s? Nah, you obviously are too slow to even hit 1.25m/s.
The 1.5m/s mark is the speed which the WMO's sensor can't exceed.
Your stick test on the other hand serves to check for hardware acceleration, which kicks in at 1.25m/s, where the WMO leaves the path of linear correlation between abscissa and ordinate, see "DA" compared to "IME3.0".

You know what? I heard Rapha won Quakecon with a WMO at 125Hz, use that.

and rapha was on 125hz, wmo + 125hz = guaranteed quakecon win

As far as I know, Rapha, Cypher and Toxjq ain't an objective measurement for technical attributes, especially considering the game they play is from 1996 and one of them shoots on the keyboard with 200Hz built in delay because he started playing the game before he even had a mouse.
You also forgot to mention Evil, at Quakecon 2016 he placed 2nd with a mouse that has hardware acceleration, does that mean his mouse is good? Of course not.
When Rapha wins Quakecon playing on a toaster, it doesn't mean a toaster is the holy grail of input devices, it just means Rapha has enough skill to compensate for lesser hardware.

Anyway, I think enough jimmies had been rustled in this thread and I won't waste my time on a relict from the early days of gaming, if WMO works for you use that mouse, but I personally would never recommend to a newcomer using an oudated piece of hardware that was so awesome that the manufacturer discontinued it years ago.

holy dogshit dont tell me thats u when u were younger???????

I had a dream last night that I was using WMO, wtf, I'm not even unhappy with my g pro

wmo is looking for new souls, its a common event amongst us gamers who seen a tiny glimpse of a wmo, they dream about having one. time to get one bro

I've got a couple WMOs I can send you if you'll pay postage.. I won't ever use them :)

Check your iMSG

The WMO is still pretty amazing. Newegg seems to have it from 2 Chinese sellers. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=0TP-000K-000H9

Microsoft could pretty easily update the WMO but they don't seem to focus on peripherals as much anymore. It's only real issues are that the cord wears out after a while, and that it's got negative accel above 1.4 m/s when it's overclocked. The negative accel isn't really an effective problem, but it'd be nice if it were fixed. As people above have commented it hasn't stopped everyone from winning everything with the WMO anyway. Because of the button design, even if the contacts have a 10ms delay (I don't know if this is true, but someone above commented) the mouse still feels as fast/faster to click than a lot of mice; mx518, gx1000, razer abyssus, deathadder.

I've been using the deathadder recently, just cause it's a little more modern, and it's a nice change to have a left handed mouse, but the WMO is streamlined and as effective as anything.

only reason i still use wmo is because they are very durable, a sensor you can trust and i like the loose buttons most.

WMO is the katana of gaming mice.

i use logitech g pro. it's an excellent mouse after you disable the LED bullshit.

I find the LED bullshit is pretty good when you're playing games like Dota where it reflects your HP and MANA pool.

cheater

only the best cheats

I play with 3 fingers on top of the mouse - ie middle finger on the scroll wheel. I think the wmo shape is perfect for this grip. I have a Zowie FK, and the shape feels alright if I hold it the "normal" way but I'd rather find a mouse to suit my style. Holding it the way I want is really uncomfortable.

Anyone using this grip have suggestions?

Thats how toxic plays. Why not just continue using wmo then?

I am for now but they keep breaking! I just dug an old working one out and stuck the teflon feet from my deathadder on it to improve the glide. I have one X80 which feels nicer than my others, but I think I need to resolder the cable or something because it keeps disconnecting.

I'll have to move on one day though, and I'm always up for recommendations.

May i inquire how you switched the feet :) Any pictures? I thought I'd

I was thinking about how nice it would be to have my kinzu feet on this logitech mouse..... :) I thought i'd mutilate it trying to pry them off, and scrape the other feet off for smooth surface before gluing on ...

I might have to dig up my WMO just for test purposes because I've not used one for like 10 years. However logitech is vastly superior to all other gaming mice out there to date. They might lack in build quality in the odd respect but they're consistently stable with all their releases in the last few years.

you just want the 80 % zoomrail, thats why your digging up your wmo again xD

So far 70% zoom rail has been good for me, still don't know how you guys zoom so much, it fucks with my spacial awareness.

it becomes a feeling i guess, something you are used to and handle it eventually

Thats how going down to 90 fov feels to me, cañt tell if I'm going to hit a corner or not LOL

Got a zowie fk2 and wmo now, feels like these are fairly equal to me. But the zowie has sidebuttons which i find handy , swap em when my aim gets great and i get bored .. standard :P

I want a logitech g pro, but supporting such high price does not sit right with me .

buy a 102 prodigy ;D

just start use some zowie mouse, you get use it...it take while, hands will hurs probasbly, you get mad a lot etc..but you get use it after all...

i probably just get mad and change to wmo anyway -.-

i will play QC with wmo and CRT . yes in 2017 .

Looks like you can't teach an old dog new tricks :p

now i can die happy =)

now u got good mouse u gunna b top dog at prophecy

if cheaters like ted would buzz off

I'll move on the day you find me a similar grip mouse with a very very very similar mousewheel.

Afaik that doesn't exist. I think the zowie FK came close when I tested it in terms of shape and grip but the horrible wheel made me sell it back. What's wrong with them strongass wheel in mices nowadays srsly wmo has it perfect between soft and hard and you can definetly detect one spin of it from another.

well spoken sir

hail wmo!