so it seems like they are going to aim for a really small target audience indeed :(

So noctis and zero4, the biggest noobs on t4, ruin QC

zero4 was one of the top players of his time and t4 was his strength... noctis was competitive long after that when t4 was taken out of the map pool and replaced with ql maps

And then he got schooled by rapha on it.

if you werent a total noob you would know z4 has been inactive for more than 10 years

If you werent a total embarassment, you would know that z4 was starting to get schooled by rapha in 2007 already

Do you always post bullshit or just this one time?

Lying to "win" arguments is booooring

z4 went inactive after 2003 and remained since. he shows up for quakecons and rocks just like zamuz out of the blue on iem. Still he was 2nd at quakecon 2008, rapha 8th?

They are the esports managers. They cater to a very small portion of the playerbase, and I like that the company chose people that are a part of that niche.

I don't actually work for id though...

tell that to yourself...

My bank account doesn't lie. :/

Neither do your hips

An upside down 0 is still a 0 :(

Burrrrn!

Aussies don't lie about upside things!

first choice that "isn't blatantly stupid" I've seen from ID since deciding to build QL tbh.

If he said they needed to fix the lag/high ping abuse issues, wonder if theyd listen then...

hmmm, dunno. Sponge and Sync are pretty convinced that "it's working as intended". Which is why I had to make a lot of noise to get them to fix it... Unfortunately the ESR monster didn't follow my advice and the game is pretty much dead as a result of it.

But that is one of the lesser "blatantly stupid" decisions that ID has made though (as it only mattered a lot on high level... although had it been fixed the game would've felt much better even on low levels).

For instance here are some of the decisions I would instantly disagree with:
1) We need to do something new to keep pushing boundaries -> Let's focus tremendously on the web-browser as platform to run QL with.
2) The stats on our page are taking up too much resources -> let's kill it (rather than let's find a decent way to summerize stats which will be less resource consuming).
3) We get less players -> let's ADD gameplay modes.
4) Oeeee +forward LG is getting too strong -> let's reduce LG damage (ok ok.... I sneaked this one in)
5) Let's NOT make clan-pages on site but only personalized player pages.
6) Let's continue to give people all the options they want to have.
7) Let's fix several things (like find a match, skill rating servers, etc.) wayyy too late and so buggy that everyone complains about it like mad... -> Only to just turn them off. (similarly there is a cl_autotimenudge in the game... which should be forced on but isn't because the implementation is buggy)
8) Let's not include any clan functionality to easily let clans challenge other clans.
etc. etc.

uuu i tottaly forgot about stats ... i wonder how stats will be implemented into QC. O boi!

My guess would be that they keep on going with just the achievements thingies.... Mainly because I'm not in the alpha test thingy to say how stupid their decisions are and how they can fix stuff ;)

yes well, ... maybe you should rethink your approach how to convey a problem/solution to a company, especially because its over the intrawebz. :)

I started off as a nice guy who took the time to explain stuff....
I even spend some time explaining stuff by coloring ingame screenshots for map alterations, wrote several pages on why weapon / armor layouts work and why some decisions were not great.
But somehow if they keep on making the wrong decisions based on ideas by people who have no argumentation in favor for their idea, while I have tons of argumentations against the idea....
It can be kind of disheartening... Especially when chatting about it on IRC where all actual reasoning is ignored. (As it is too complex to explain why something works or doesn't work in just 1 or 2 lines of text before you get interrupted by some other idiot)

So eventually I tried to say just how stupid their decision was in as least words as possible... And well I might've ended up insulting the intelligence of some people in the process ;)
But it's so damn sad man... QL had such huge potential.

"...wrote several pages on why weapon / armor layouts work..."

Can I read them somewhere or their gone into the IRC abyss?

gone with the closed testing forum I think :(

But basically maps work where you need to take some sort of risk to 'stay in control', but you can somewhat manage that risk.
For instance that you need to go through some open space which is attackable from many angles to obtain an item, or you need to get into a confined space which is 'campable'.
(For instance the RA and LG on ZTN have this)

You can get similar things with other decent options though. Like on DM6 the RA (for the guy in control) feels a lot like the RA + LG on ZTN as it is a large open space which turns out to be remarkably campable (from both top and bottom).

Things that won't work is placing an RL + RA on some top level and have other items on the floor(s) below. (unless you start messing around with decent placed teleporters etc.)
Or place a rail in an insanely open space (as the first one to get it can always hit people trying to get it but is free to move the map himself)
There are just several things that clearly involve too much or too little risk to make it a decent map.

Like toxicity for instance is a map that actually involves too much risk where RA + MH are (in general) too difficult to secure. This makes timing more important but also leads to many games which have large frag runs. Which can be ok at a high level (as good players can trade agression/control for frags more balanced) but will fail at the mediocre level of play as it favors a certain playstyle more than others.

I see, thanks.

if you want feedback on a specific map / situation my analytical skillz are still in place ;)
(my execution is fluctuating like mad though, so I sometimes might fail to actually show you.)

You should just make a youtube channel and explain all this stuff just for yourself. I bet it would be cool to watch.

ppl don't like my voice much ;(

Maybe a blog then? Make a Weird Bible to Quake :DD

EDIT: I would love a page on how the net code works with diagrams. I think you've done it in the past but maybe just a little better presentation and it will be good.

I agree with a lot which is in the thresh bible. Which is written already ;)

I would watch every video you always had a different insight. And when you are in good form it shows even at top level.

just imagine timecube with more narcissism, it would feel about the same

From their perspective though, be aware that:
1.- There was no programmer on the team. As such, half of your requests were not possible to be implemented and the workers could only implement what they could, according to their own expertise. Since 2009 that the QL project only had two part time workers assigned to it, which were a mapper/wannabe coder (Syncerror) and a web developer (Sponge).
2.- Since QL was only a side project for the company then those two workers had to justify their salary. Adding stuff is the way to do so, whereas removing stuff and fixing bugs is not.

As much as we like to bash them, Sync and Sponge were not the cause of QL receiving very few meaningful updates. The problem was id software itself assigning so little resources to the project, and assigning them wrongly.

TBH the only straight up stupid decisions concerning the QL project were made when it was conceived as an idea. Those were the decision to make the game be browser-based and to have centralized servers without assigning nowhere near enough resources. Those two decisions had a way bigger impact in the game dying than the game receiving lackluster updates.

From my start of feedback till now they made (just off the top of my head):
Welcome to QL intro
Trainingsmaps / assignments / tutorials
Several competitive settings
New menu's for these competitive settings
Find a match button
Friendslist with chat option
a shitload of achievements
Included advertisements on maps
Created several new bugs
Made like 4 new game modes?
Made like 40 new maps?
created autoTimenudge (! but turned if off :()
Removed all stats pages and lots of background stats collecting (I would assume, as it doesn't make any sense to keep that running while not being able to do stuff with it)
created server Tiers (I think...)
Allowed users to manually start private servers
included subscriptions (which must've been quite the assignment)
added payment options
Moved to Steam
Did a new voice over.....

I asked for:
A ladder for players/clans + a way to challenge clans on this ladder (clanbase style sort of system for clans, for players just use all the games aka QLranks)
Using that ladder for matchmaking.
like 5 to 10 lines of extra code (to get autotimenudge and force it on, where I already wrote the autotimenudge part with several gradation options)
A clan page with a description similar to the personal description.
Several map fixes (mainly with item layouts)
Some more community features that you would like to have. (private messaging / forum boards for clans / extra ways of communicating times and availability for matches etc.)
And then I had some more stuff that would've been nice to implement but were completely 'extra'. (stuff like several decent predefined configs. News related to competitive Quake. A 'tourney' mode as Q4 had. Tourneys ran from the webpage (approved/sponsored by ID). etc.)
And I had a lot of criticism on the weapon / armor layout on some maps which would favor a specific playstyle too heavily. (most of these aren't played anymore anyways, T7, dm14 and dm6 are the only maps where I think I got listened to except for the BFG on dm14 in ffa ;()

Not even valve dare to do ladders. Probably too open for abuse. Imagine some Space CTF guys on top of all clans ahead of 102 or w/e is hot atm.

Maybe I am not entirely clear on this but I'm not all that in favor of having a shitload of maps/mods/options/etc. to choose from.

btw, only thing I really bash them on is the netcode... Which makes the game simply unplayable on high level unless you are a +forward aim monster. Having a dodgy connection then further helps you along on this style such that you don't even have to be an actual aim monster in order to seem like one.

The rest is somewhat forgivable... but the most decisions which did get implemented were so bad it made me give up on saving the game :(

Especially the "adding new game modes" when they knew that player numbers were declining.

I thought the game modes were fine and fun at first but they pay walled them and they all died instantly.

All game modes were fine and fun, but that doesn't make it a sane decision to add them.

The payment walls have little to do with them dying instantly.

They died because all players that QL had left preferred the mode they already knew (either FFA / CA / Duel).

But as an esports game you don't actually "want multiple modes". You want players/people to be able to identify with the player they spectate. If you always play FFA you won't really have a clue about what happens in a duel.

If it was up to me I'd just have 1v1, and TDM as 'competitive modes' and maybe have CTF and CA as fun / irregular events. At least until you have a large enough player base to support the addition of one of those to a championship. (but you're gonna have to go into the millions before even thinking about that)

Game should be fun first, competitive second. Neither of the modes you mention are really fun for noobs (Quake Live isn't fun for noobs as it is) so the comp angle is a moot direction in my opinion. If people don't like the modes you propose as main they just go to other game.

If anything, they should have directed players within their browser to the tournaments which they never did so anyone outside of ESR didn't know anything about anything happening.

except that QL is fun for noobs.
Only thing is that they have to be paired with other noobs.

I still hold the same opinion I posted here. Times have changed.

Always so well though out, your responses.

I really wish it was open to all top level players who have Solid insight. Instead of popularity confidence.

Every single thing you've noted sounds reasonable to fix... God help quake champions :p


*edit God/Zero4

You don't think that back in 2013 they were either trying to kill what was left or see what changes people didn't like, for the new "DLC"/Quake Champions?

I certainly hope that they weren't trying to kill what was left...
As for testing for a new game, I don't know.

the abilities were originally meant for QL but they decided to build a new game around it.
QL was a testing ground originally anyways for a later upgrade.

Oh really? Then why do I feel like ql was just q3 but more shitty?

cuz sync and sponge?

That's a long fucking time for a testing ground.....

Not the gameplay. the overall model...
remember the kmart adds?
British Knights lol

then premium/pro subs.

then sync n' sponge.

Number 1 is the only reason Quake Live was even created.

didn't follow my advice and the game is pretty much dead as a result of it.

Do you really think it's because of 'it' and not because it's just quake?

it's not a direct causal effect but yes, I think that quake(3 / live) had the potential to stand on or near the top of competitive gaming. (Had it gotten there more money would've gone in etc.etc. game wouldn't be dead)
If my advice alone would've been able to pull that off will remain a mystery until some game actually implements it. The current esport titles also fail miserably imho.

Aren't you contradicting yourself by saying and yes, and that the current esports titles also fail? They're obviously ahead for many reasons, and I don't see why netcode is supposed to be overwhelm all other factors.

you could at least read my actual posts...

Are you saying they needed to follow all of your advice? I'm just trying to gauge how big of a factor you really think netcode is.

As for the success of QL it's a minor factor, because the success of a game doesn't depend on the highest skilled players but mainly depends on how fun it is for newer / slightly experienced players.
For those players there really isn't that much difference.

For the competitive side of (online) QL it was hell though, where I could clearly see a connection between the success of a player / playing style and the direct link to his connection. The causality got worse and worse as the years went by, as the players slowly adapted to the netcode. Around 2011 / 2012 it was so bad that (at least for 'skilled people' with 'bad internet/settings') the success of their gamestyle was predominated by the failing connection.

all the best to him, gl with it Z4

Could be good, the more quake junkies we have at id the better.
He literally was one of the best quake players there ever was.

def my favorite of all time. no pracc and placing top3 all the time. nbk

really psyched too see this!!!!

Does it mean we won't see him playing qc at any tournament?

Who's the guy in the white shirt? Looks like a clone of him. Thought someone photoshopped that picture or something :D.

That is Zero2

That'd be cl0ck.

should have hired cooller

because narcissistic cunts are exactly what a company needs

zero4 do a good job

hire av3k

Forever delayed

No NSFW pls

to do list:
1. make t4 for QC

t4 and dm13 are cancer

they should have hired someone like stermy who knows the esport buisiness inside out...

Yep.

Why not a nice big fat Fatal1ty instead of this?

I bet Fat would ask a lot more money/perks than Z4.

3+ years in the game industry, including at least one shipped multiplayer title in a lead or coordinator position
Bachelor’s degree or relevant experience
Experience managing or coordinating independent teams
Experience managing large budgets
Sufficient experience with competitive games to perform high-level analysis
Excellent verbal, written, and interpersonal skills
Excellent analytical and time management skills
Very comfortable with frequent travel

How many of these does he fulfill?

This is too humiliating, please stop.

he'd fulfill his ball sack up your ass :-*

Ikr, everyone wants a piece of this :*

since when are job post requirements set by retarded hr personnel taken seriously?

not sure about the first point, but why ruling him out on the others?

Way to go, zero4.

Good to hear, for a while there i was having nightmares that they chose WinD...

LOL can you even imagine that?

z4 god of quake

when you see it

i remember seeing that pic for the first time, the comment underneath was 'zero4 looks a lot like his dad'

like 2002/2003

free coke....n donuts

free coke? wtf? No wonder they look so mellow.

guy on left

saul goodman? breaking bad?

now we wait to know what an esports manager is

GL to Zero4, it will be hard to keep a balance between bickering hardcore fans and the politics of Id Software, hope it goes well.

ye but 3/4 of bickering fans are trolling idiots, so if he will be able to distinguish the difference, that will reduce stress levels by a substantial margin.

Make Quake Great Again (c) Zero4.

It's happening guys rehe and weird fusing their minds together to bend reality into code and make the ultimate game

Z4 bad sign, again they try to use famous name for telling us that everything is good and serious (Timm Willits, cooller, z4, noctis)

I think everything is like 5/10

you are an half empty glass. :)

what bout cooller? thought he said he would have an opinion bout qc after he tries the game.

if you look at his expression under pressure here (zero4 vs k1llsen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7eNZoCKSo&t=1183s

then you will understand that im sure he will not feel pressured by esr trolls etc . Actually quite impressive to stay as relaxed as he did.

Zero4 gave k1llsen a good fight , even tho zero4 stopped practicing quake many years ago . He understands the game very well and i hope he will be able to help quake champions onward and hopefully upward.

We should praise the fact that they choose a quake legend as a manager, instead of some marketing moron who doesnt know
anything other then selling dogshit to kids.

So far so good .

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search...refox-b-ab

I guess he has a bachelors and is very comfortable with frequent travel, specially when it's cost-free.

Hopefully id didn't hire John Zerofor Rembo just to make the community think that they have a general idea of what the fuck they're doing. Fingers crossed.

Yeah, I'm happy for Z4, but I can't help but think there were way better qualified people out there for this position. I'm a bit surprised they didn't head hunt for this position, and went with open applications instead, but then again I have no idea about the inner workings of id.

Quake community:

Complains if they hire a nobody to handle eSport relations
Complains if they hire a known professional Quake player to handle eSport relations

Hurr durr.

Complains if they hire a known professional, and unqualified Quake player to handle eSport relations

Can you explain a bit more why you believe he is unqualified?

Who else then?

One that hasn't burned all bridges, like 2GD or Slasher

If it isn't Rapha or Cypher, don't even waste my fucking time!

Most likely they've never had a real job.

A normal job you CANT get rich from?

I rather take raphas winnings and invest them in something and wont have to work my ass off :P

I don't know exactly what rapha's situation is but I doubt his winnings are anywhere close enough for him to live off return from investment.

Depens how you do IT :) i am + 70% on the money i m "playing" with. IF My investment was 100k euro that would be some good invested money, which i could easy live from.

That's pretty cool. Is the cost of living high where you live?

With the cost of living of the 10 years it took him to win that money? That's pretty much $0, and in the negatives if he studied something.

Doesn't Rapha do live cam shows?

I don't know if you've been intentionally ambiguous, but the concept amuses me

You don't sound any less retarded tho.

By pointing out how retarded you all sound, I am then also retarded by association.

... sounds like the Quake community.

Welcome to the family.

yeah , nobody here will be happy with anything- it's the ESR way

Smart move! He only applied for that job to get the chance of practicing QC early. He will quit as soon as it gets released just to have an advantage over all other players.. IM SURE OF IT!!1

Timefragger.

haha najsu.

then a real pro pracs and he gets rekt by cooller

sorry for my earlier comment

congratulations on that job

Spartie would spend hes money on drugs and would die cuz of overdoses or going bankroet

Pz

Prohan

I was looking forward to that choice - US zero4 or czm and for EU fox, toxic or prozac.

Why you complain about z4? With Syncerror and Sponge on board, how much worse can it get?

Al long as z4 makes lg great again and brings back the fast exciting gameplay from patched q4 as opposed to the lame boring +back rl gameplay of ql, I am fine with him getting hired.

you be lucky to get anything with trash talk like this

http://www.esreality.com/post/2857630/re-what...pid2857428

So how is the weather in the UK?

green

i cant tell if they hired the rite guy or the wrong guy

is he our guy?

=/

think that all previous quakes did not have this working position afaik "Esport manager". So just this job existing at ID gives little hope regardless of the guy taking the job.