After all of these (imo) great news about QC, I really don't know why so many people are still so sceptical...

I don´t think there´s that many skeptical people at all tbh, just a vocal minority. The vast majority like where QC is going. Plus, not all the skeptics are hating on the game, it´s mostly just criticism towards specific elements of the game, which is a good thing in any game development... never mind the next QUAKE.

I always prefer giving people the benefit of the doubt, and there´s still a part of me which is looking forwards to QC, but with what id did to QL I find it very hard not to be skeptical at this point.

But ye, criticism stands out like a sore thumb. I´ll guess I should just shut up and wait till I try the game.

This all seems promising.
I am having doubts about the co-developer Saber Interactive tho

Why ID would choose them to help is beyond me..

Yeah that's true. But from what we were able to see from the PAX's footage, they're on a good track :)

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I dont mind that they are putting champions in Duel. I dont think that removes the things I find interesting about duel, but it will add some new things I havent had to consider before and give me something new to learn

They just have to get the implementation right

I'm looking forward to it honestly. Duel can be quite stale and the different heroes will amplify the style matchups that you already see.

"CSGO pros try out the game in general"












what?

what ? aquiring players from a community that is larger then quake is just an obvious move to make .

They are trying to quakeify pro players, just like overwatch . overwatchefiyed? , sounds good to me !

The champions aspect is "scary" but interesting , perhaps now we will not see evil v agent finale every sunday . Or .. will we ? =P

Toxjq crotchsliding vs milton hoverboarding duel , go .

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive Progaming Players sat on chair for 5min and said "yeah nice game" and went back to their computers to practice more before upcoming tournament.

They were probably interested in playing, but pro players is mostly in for the $$ .

Pro players will only play QC if there will be money in it .

But ofcourse , there might be new players that can arise to the occation and become a good pro player with QC .

Imagine .. QC beeing dominated by CS beginners .. the horror =p

It feels weird to think about champions in duel but I'm glad they're trying something new, QL duel will still be there if this doesn't turn of to be fun.

Can't wait to try the game out , looks awesome so far :)

after latest doom, I started to feel that they care about their community, a feeling that hadn't felt before for long time.

all latest news are inline, to me at least, with that. Seems like they are trying to bring new, no hardcore fps players, into quake, but without fucking up their existing player base (at least not much).

I respect that

super excited to see the same 10 players competing in the annual $15k tournament

FU LOBSTER!!

Oh yeah lets focus on duel again. That worked out so well with the previous Quake games...

Give one example of game from the same time as Q3, which has team mode for competition and is more popular. It's funny when people who hate duel blame everything on it. Personally I don't care will they go team or invidual more as the main competitive mode, as long it's good. So far I haven't seen team mode which works better in afps for competition though.

Counterstrike seems to be doing pretty well.

CS's sequel Global Offensive is doing good. GO is different game whereas QL is basicly just a update for Q3 and it lacks matchmaking and other critical features of modern games. Not that I think QL would be as popular as CS if it had those features at least not if the main mode was TDM or CTF. QC could make those modes more interesting with abilities and faster movement.

So first of all, during q3 cs 1.x had more activity and was more popular. During QL CS:GO rocked on completely. Main difference was that core of CS games is team based 5v5 which meant teams had to sign 5 players.

During the best QL times you had mostly duel since it was cheaper to sign one player than 5 players and any organization was happy to set up a tournament that has to sync 16 players rather than 40 plus players. Also quake scene got out of it with teams barely surviving and player not having the time too put into team modes as much as in duel, no goals to compete or organization to sign meant less teams and less competition.

Seeing as all of this affects how the competitive games progress and which mode actually wins if you have a choice I think this could affect QC just as much now there is only QCon was the only left arranging team based competitions if anyone has a choice they will organize duel since it's cheaper to set up.

Herein lies the problem, it's easier for audience to personalize a duel player, it is also easier to get disillusioned about what it takes to get to that level of play and people loose interest. In team based games someone dies, you switch , someone air rockets another player live you go like, it could be me. You can identify with a player, team, league, anything because they are also working towards a common goal.

Also it is better on a casual level since if the game is team based you go blame your noob team mates. They lost the match not you.

Duel is a really great game mode, I have absolute respect for the time and discipline it takes to master the game being all alone and counting just on yourself. It is absolutely amazing to have it as a side show, and an awesome feature of the game. Where you take a more duelistcly inclined player and pit them off after the main event for a smaller prize pool. You don't make the game revolve around it though, since it could go the way it went before and that means you've not learned anything from your previous experiences.

Sigh.

- Cs was more popular because Half Life sold 10 times more copies than Q3 and everyone could run it on their coal-powered Pentium back then.

- Cs is still more popular because since then it had 2 new titles (or 3 actually, if you count Condition Zero) and all of them were pretty much the same game with some additions.
Meanwhile Quake got only Q4, a game focused on SP and MP so shitty that it took a year to fix.

- Comparing anything with QL is irrelevant. QL was a mess in 2008 and it's the same mess now. It's like you made Cs 1.6 into a browser game, dropped the spec features, didnt include matchmaking and made life of everyone who would be interested in playing just miserable.

- Duel was the obvious choice for QL because... well, it was actually the only choice. TDM was doing great in 2007-2008, but you COULDNT play an organized TDM game in QL for years.

You and other people are comparing a 1999 title to recent ones and draw conslusions about quake or teamplay based on that, which is nonsense. Quake just need a proper reboot, not become Overwatch.

- Cs was more popular because Half Life sold 10 times more copies than Q3 and everyone could run it on their coal-powered Pentium back then.

Agreed

- Cs is still more popular because since then it had 2 new titles (or 3 actually, if you count Condition Zero) and all of them were pretty much the same game with some additions.
Meanwhile Quake got only Q4, a game focused on SP and MP so shitty that it took a year to fix.

And yes they have been more active and got a standalone game up and running and made it's sequel. Never changing the formula, just adding candy.

- Comparing anything with QL is irrelevant. QL was a mess in 2008 and it's the same mess now. It's like you made Cs 1.6 into a browser game, dropped the spec features, didnt include matchmaking and made life of everyone who would be interested in playing just miserable.

Don't you go comparing now :)

- Duel was the obvious choice for QL because... well, it was actually the only choice. TDM was doing great in 2007-2008, but you COULDNT play an organized TDM game in QL for years.
You and other people are comparing a 1999 title to recent ones and draw conslusions about quake or teamplay based on that, which is nonsense. Quake just need a proper reboot, not become Overwatch.

You've misread my point and I'll answer you since you've barely touch on the topic.
The "..." thing is the problem, QCon 2011 was the only one to try having a TDM tournament, barely got enough teams and the skill gap was ridiculous at times. Better teams were mercs and no proffesional organization was represented.
Meanwhile IEM was pretty strong 2010 but it was duel, because it is easier to get things organized and game provides that mode as equal opportunity thing.

Turning Quake into overwatch is not the point, creating a live community interested in prolonged activity inside quake IS THE POINT.

Most duel based based have flopped, most team based games are still around and being popular.
WHY:
- Easier to get detached from one guy the from a complete team with arch enemies and player trades
- Easier to imitate players in casual team games where you can blame noobs and cheaters
- Easier to brand get attached to multiple teams based on players you like so you'd be interested in following more games and follow the complete tournament.
- Sometimes it easier to comprehend on the spectating level what is going on than in a duel
- You diversify you in-game economy since every pro player will have something tied to them that fans want to get/buy

The only reason I ever compared cs to quake is to try and make the point above, and you're not beneath making those comparisons yourself.

Looking forwards to seeing the same 3 characters being played over and over again.

u mad?

Class based duel is very hard to balance....Just the way I like it. ;)

Vo0 vs Fatal1ty QC 2017!

You have qualities other tops dont always excelle in, Love to see it expressed in a new way :D

I hope that deciding factor in let's say Vo0 vs toxjq match up is skill not the release notes from the latest patch :).

(...) players will soon be coming to id Software's offices as soon as today

What does this mean? Maybe remove the first "soon"?

(...) the historical Quake staple of 1v1 Duel in has previously been confirmed to be in QC.

Remove the first "in".

and remove 1v1 or Duel
instead remove both and insert Dual
hahaha

What is this article's image from? No winner on display, a woman without an oversized check at 2.5th place, and Willits at 5th place, again without a check? Is this how the Quake society treats minorities (women and bald people) these days? is the winner a transgender black Hitler jew or something?

Seriously though. I hope they tone down the hero things for duel. I have no problem with all the classes and special abilities in general. Could be lots of fun.

===
Hopefully I won't be banned for posting this again after someone decided it was a good idea to delete my post. What the fuck dude?

Its says in the image its from Quakecon 2013, so I'm guessing its from Quakecon 2013.

Quad is pink FFS !

It's pretty.

Back to the roots ;)

http://cf.shacknews.com/shack_images/sshots/quake3/q35.jpg

That back to the roots klesk was horrible hahaha

I think pitting duel alongside tdm/whatever other competitive team mode gives duel an unfair spectator advantage because ppl always associated quake esports w/ duel. So teammodes will likely once again get shoved aside as a side piece. Kinda sad, but at least its a new game and ppl wont have their 10+ yrs advantage in duel anymore like they did in QL =D

I think Olympics shouldnt host basketball tournaments because no one watches archery because of it

apples and oranges you momo, nice try though

Yeah... so???????????????????????????????

If you want teammode play Overwatch or CSGO.

Don't ruin the only opportunity to bring back fast paced duel to the competitive scene.

I am talking it

Looking good but in order to get more people in duel they should make duel system really easy to play. For an example there are quakers who play 10 years with timers. Timing items and in the same time controling the map will be really hard for new players. As soon they notice that advantage they will quit duel, and we will see the same names in finals all over again. Even I was having hard time with timing. I was just playing +f rush + aim as I was enjoying this kind of game style, I didnt mind losing so much. I was so much in CA that I forgot to time or at least try to time, same goes for rest of the community who play for an example ffa and ca. They mostly dont play duel cos of timing advantage which is hard to adapt. Once you have timing you can control the map - not that hard to adapt. So timers and maybe how much hp does opponent have should be displayed. QC and QC duels should be easy to learn and be simple as possible, even hit box can be increased (depends on model - but still higher). I dont have trouble with aiming, but I know the feeling if you hit good and how enjoyable can game be. Why not to make possible that for everyone. I ve seen some negative comments like "why duel" if this was possible I wrote below about advantage they might reconsider and try duel as they still have potencial. I dont know how QC is designed - we will see soon, but I hope game is made more noob friendly than designed hardcore as QW and Q2 was - really hard to master.

Yes, I know this is ESR we have quakers here, but think about rest of the new player? They will pretty much quit the game after geetting raped, take that advantage away from old quakers and you will see players stay and enjoy the game. Well this is my opinion what should be changed - added

shit comes true if duel will be main competitive mode

They would be better focusing just on a team mode

they are focusing on a team mode tho, im guessing theyll maybe push for multimode tournaments

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Tim pls no item respawn timers

Come on, for newcommers it's a really really good idea to provide timers.
But for pros/tournaments it could or rather should be all skill and no timers ;)

I agree.

Casual duel mode should have timers that do the arithmetic and memorization for you, but not the information gathering part of the job.

No hud timers either. Timer drawn above item.

Pro duel mode should have no timers at all. Why take away a skill at the highest level?

However, I think for TDM, even the pro mode should have those timers, where the information gathered by team mates about item times is automatically shared with the team so that comms can be used for discussing higher level things.

lol, higher level things? noob

You don't think there are other things to talk about in a TDM game than item times?

I say "higher level" because I don't consider informing my team mate of the time of an item a particularly deep element of strategy.

Have you actually played TDM with a team or in a pickup with voicecom?

In TDM that already exists, in QW, Q2, Q3 and QL (maybe Q4 too?). Some require manually binding them based on chat messages, for others it's automatic. All pros use timers. Of course this feature should come with the game, instead of only used by the few that know about them.

Doing math is not a Quake related skill and having to do math should not be necessary to play Quake. It's only an annoyance and a relic embrased only by Q3 players (not even QW), that is a hidden mechanic/advantage that drives new players away from Quake as it makes them lose without knowing why they lost.

For all servers (pro included) make the system so that the player gets a hud timer when picking the item and when seeing it being picked by the opponent. With that it's the exact same system, with the same skills involved and same difficulty, just without the annoyance of getting back from work to then do math when playing videogames and using that to your advantage against people that don't know and can't know about it.

The only thing lost with this system at the pro level is the possibility of mistiming items (very rarely happens). But then, that's failing at simple math rather than at Quake. Heck it's not even failing at a simple math skill but less skill than that even, because any decent player already has numbers memorized alike multiplication tables (already memorized that 10=35, 11=36).

Yeah, I don't really know what pro TDM players use. I made some config files for this purpose when I played TDM. Pressing keys to let people know item times is rather tedious though. I find it even more tedious and distracting than timing in duel. I'd much rather the game just share this information automatically.

It looks like we agree on how the timer system should do the ugly work (math/look-up table and memorization) yet leave observing those times still as a job for the player. We don't want someone camping in a dark corner of the map to be able to pick up the times of all items and even a rough idea of enemy position.

The only question is whether there should be a pro server without such aids. Since I'm not pro, I'll leave it up to the pros to argue about what they'd prefer there. :)

Whatever they choose won't affect the majority of players or new players anyway.

The timing was never about doing math but about remembering numbers especially if you have to focus on a few items, enemy location, your positioning and aiming. At least for me. It was always harder for me to time items when I played versus more skilled player in terms of aiming. If my enemy hits so well I try to focus more on aiming to neglect the difference and that's usually with a cost of worse timing.

The two substantial pros listed (accessibility for noobs and convenience for us) outweigh that only minor con (that I also listed).

And I don't think is a con anyway. Being able to not forget a number is not a Quake skill. Also it isn't a Quake skill to memorize a multiplication table.

If it is in the game, it is a skill of that game.

I guess you mean that it isn't a core principle of quake that a quake game should require those skills, which I would agree with.

If the pro mode used for international tournaments did not have timing aids, it wouldn't bother me though. It might be fun to spectate the confusion resulting from a pro mistiming an item on the rare occasion that it actually happens.

In CSGO matchmaking everyone spawns with full money? In CSGO matchmaking the new players get headshot assistent? No. People like to play the game like the pros do and CSGO mm features almost 100% the same gameplay as in tournaments. (I think only the round and bomb timers are more relaxed)

Big mistake from ID.
Don't see the point of the champions on duel

go back to ur rock cave

Fuck you

H E R E W E G O B O Y S

Each day I see new info and new videos of QC I am actual getting more excited for it. What did it for me is the QuakeWorld Rocket lanucher reskin and the Quake 4 LG skin

" pro quake players no europeans will be coming to try out quake champions as soon as today"

quake fpsmoba(wowduels)

I guess it's a good approach to have Competitive Duel and Casual +Competitive Team mode. Most of CA Only players in Quake Live follows and watches duel events even though they don't enjoy playing it themselves. Most of the players of any games and even real sports in the world usually play team games. All of them football, LoL, CS:GO, Overwatch are team games.

It's inevitable that game has to have good and enjoyable team mode to attract masses. If ID succeeds on this then the Duel PRO scene will acquire an environment where it can shine. People love to follow individuals even in team games.

I've wrote about this and I think it has been rehashed on this site many times but:

Pushing two or more modes as competitive creates a dispersion where people interested in a mode don't watch or are rarely interested in the other.This will hurt both duel and team mode viewership numbers.

From the economy stand point would anyone like to finance 5 players or just 1. Isn't it easier to manage visa, payment and time for a single player than a team of 5? This also means that pretty much any minor team would not have finances to keep players motivated in playing team based modes. Also any organization wouldn't bother with 40 plus players to schedule when they can schedule 16.

It's not about id and quake as a game here it is about the competitive scene playing and casual scene watching.

Pushing player to casually play in team based mode while having a clear edge for duel on the competitive side would also cause player to have a disconnect between what they are playing and what they are watching. Quake at times seems like a completely different game based on the mode you are playing. Mechanics are the same but end goals and strategy is different. This would mean that things they see in game aren't something they relate to when watching competitions, or the other way around.

I personally like team based modes, I've watched most of duel competitons and while watching I'd loose interest, maps run 0-0 until the end, some games would be really interesting but honestly I never watch duel competitions religiously.
I have stayed up till 2-4am to watch NA CTF, or called people for beers and EuroCup TDM matches. And this is what I'm talking about, it is quite easy to loose focus even though you love the game and it is almost the same, but it is not.

I play mostly team modes, but I am only interested in watching duel.

TDM loses my viewership due to the availability of duels to watch.

I think a lot of more casual players (e.g. CA players) fall into this category.

So I'm not sure it is a case of only watching the mode you play. The vast majority of football spectators don't even play the game.

People may play mostly the team mode while dabbling a bit in the duel mode, which will give them enough understanding to follow a duel game when spectating. Quake duel is probably the easiest multiplayer computer game on the planet to casually spectate.

I think duel mode creates bigger e-sports personalities, which then makes all the drama outside the game a whole lot more entertaining, which in turn increases interest in spectating rivalries in game.

Duel has some real advantages for spectating, it takes less of your time to watch a map, it rarely goes into overtimes, most maps do give the player in control enough freedom to flash out an attractive game, might be easier to comment on and might be good to explain basics of the game to the viewership.

Most of duel was at some point run on a professional level and it was okay unlike TDM that took years and had lvl^ guys doing it properly and not much more, ctf to with QLtv.

Duel also has its flaws and I'm just saying it might be a bad move to incorporate it on an even ground.

Maybe spectating TDM could become more enjoyable with improved spectating tools in game, which I'm sure has been talked about at length before---maybe something that doesn't require an encyclopedic knowledge of the more arcane console commands.

Seemingly random POV changes are very disorienting, even for people familiar with the maps. If the spectator had control with something like GTV, it would help imo. But how to combine that with zoot's insights? :D

The other problem with GTV is it won't attract an audience from outside the game. :(

cs go pro players: PLZ ADD AWP WITH SKINS AND DE_DUST2

ZeRo4 is Esports Director.
Now i am calm.