I thought quake 4 came out like 10 years ago

I think it looks and plays great, so far. The biggest question is the champion factor: will there be weird balance issues around active/passive abilities?

Anyway, I'm stoked for Quake.

i'm actually surprised to see such a positive mindset here on esr (in regards to the poll results).

having said that, i'm looking forward to it, but i'm not getting my hopes up too high.

Yeah, it is funny how much shit has been talked about other games (and genres) measuring up to quake over the past decade or more on here. Now quake is becoming one of those other games and people are suddenly ecstatic. Not to mention the line that seems to have recently formed of people wanting to nuzzle up to Sync's private parts.

Are you suggesting ESR has a quake bias?

Not everyone. I still think it's rofl.

good to know, thanks for the info!

np

"Character skins"
The indicator over the heads of enemies as a substitute to brightskins, this was also done in early Q3test-versions, and got scrapped because you could see people behind cover, so why repeat the same mistake yet again?
I know that "normal brightskins" isn't really compatible with "making bank of skins".
However somone nicknamed "da_coder" on QC-reddit did a pretty good mockup of a solution, which looks really good. keeps the player models/skins from being obscured by opponents configurations, while keeping player-models clearly visible.
This looks alot better than overwatch version of outlined characters

( Players shouldn't be forced to play with extreme picmip just to see character-models properly, the overhead indicator could stil be used on friendly characters.)

"Armour pickup value"[(b]
Why would you armor-feed an anarki-player when the armor-value he gets from said pickup is abysmal compared to as an example sorlag?
The only times "small characters" are going to be allowed to pickup armors are when there's threat that the other team might get the pickup or when they accidentally grabs said item in a scramble?

Why not just have different armor-absorption value* between the characters instead?
That could easily be balanced so they are about as resilient as now in a fight,the difference being that a smaller char can actually utilize it's greater movement options to regain some lost health and still have some armor, instead of being "Paper-towel resilient" even after they've maxed out their HP again.

(*kind of like the armor-system in Q1 and Q2, but depending on character type instead of which type of armor you picked up, this would not have the same issue as was present in those games where a lower tiered armor couldn't be picked up due to the player already carrying an armor that was classed "higher".)


Something like;
[b]70% Heavy
55% Medium
40% Light

The armor-decay could also be adjusted to where the further above "maximum stable armor value" a character has, the faster the armor decay, so the fast chars have to "move fast" or lose the advantage said armor produced, while a "sturdier character" could camp/defend a possition better without having the armor tic down fast.

This could be further augmented and balanced with different armors actually increasing* the "maximum stable armor value"

Something like:
RA: "50"
YA: "25"
GA: "10"
(* Not stackable, highest tiered counts. )

The current armor-system doesn't even seem to take into account if you already have armor or not, it just fills up the characters "armor value", so if you play a "25 armor-value character" and just got a kill, thats +15 armor (three shards), if you then pickup the equivalent of "YA", you gain a WHOOPING TEN ARMOR WHOHOO! -_- (This armor system is so fundamentally flawed, it NEEDS to be changed.)

"Armour Shards"
Doesn't it feel somewhat backwards that the "time-items" are "stationary pickups" and armor shards are "kill loot", It could very well be that this produces better gameplay, it's difficult to tell without actually playing, it just feels logically backwards.



Outside of these few minor issues*, the game looks waaaaaaaay more awesome than I thought it would, haven't felt this type of hype prior to a game-rell (or even the chance to slap beta-players around with rockets and railslugs ^^) in a looooong time.

(*though I would actually class the "armour issue" as greater than a minor issue. It's probably the only thing that felt like: "OHGAWTDAMNITWHYNOOOOOTHATSSOSTUPID!")


I could make a huge list of all the things I find totaly awesome with this game, however that list would be excessively long, as this game looks great. These are merely the few remaining issues that from my perspective should(and in the armor system case needs to) be addressed.

Short list of a few things (mostly things improved from previous build):

The alternate QIV-LG design, one of the best afps-weapon designs ever. ( alongside the combat-shotgun in DooM, which would be sweet as an alternate skin on the spawning shotgun?

The increased rocket velocity with added exhaust trail, looks way better than the Quakecon build version. (the exhaust flame could be stretched even a bit further perhaps?)

The faster dire-orb and "catching animation", the previous iteration that was seen in the Quakecon build looked like ranger awkwardly tried to "bro-fist" someone.)

The gauntlet looks awesome, in comparison the Q3/QL-iteration looks almost laughable now. (To keep up with contemporary game design this should probably have had a "dedicated melee attack" instead of a togglable weapon?)

The rocketlauncher design, a blend of the Q2 and Q3 iteration, looks awesome.

Most of the sound-effects and especially the announcer
sounds really awesome. The only real weak-point in weapon-sounds is the H.MG which sounds almost the same as the normal iteration? It should sound "grittier".
( really glad they didn't use something like the weak QL-announcers that sounded awful in comparison to the old Q3-announcer.)

/ [FOE]VioL8oR


P.S.Any other oldschool-players out there see the eerily resemblance to early Q3test?
The absence of the GL
The absence of the BFG (and/or other "power-weapons")
Two maps in the testversion
The same type of indicator above players heads

P.P.S With the alternate weapon skins of "QIV-LG", "Q1-RL" & "ET:QW/Q2-RG", if these are aquirable by pre-purchasing the character pack and made available instantantainiously (in the beta) when you pre-purchase, that is sort of "sneaky", but will generate alot of immediate revenue.

(* Quad Damage e.t.c.)

I like that outline solution as an alternative to bright skins. Maybe allow the player to set the colour of that outline in the same way you can set the colour of bright skins. It would also be good if that outline was not affected by general brightness settings.

You said, "Why not just have different armor-absorption value* between the characters instead?"

Wouldn't this still mean the armor is more effectively given to the champion with high absorption value, and you end up with the same problem?

It also means we would have to remember more magic numbers for each champion, like knowing how much HP you need to survive a rail gun shot.

"Wouldn't this still mean the armor is more effectively given to the champion with high absorption value, and you end up with the same problem?"

It would still be a difference yea, but the difference would be smaller and not enough to make it such a loss to not have a "Heavy character" pick it up, you still need to recognize that a faster moving char is also a bit more versatile with that armor as he can Dodge incomming damage by moving around.

The difference is that said "fast moving characters" could utilize that movment to restock HP, and get value out of that armor, compared to now where just a few shots depletes it and even if they restock their HP to max-value, they are then at no armor and almost no value was gained from that pickup.
(in duel its still a denial against the opponent, but in TDM its bullshit-tier.)

I'm not even sure how the armor system currently works in QC.

I only have this to go by, which some anonymous has made and posted in another thread: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p8AbB...edit#gid=0

This leads me to believe there are two armor types: heavy and light. Light gives you 25 more, with probably the champion's max as an upper limit.
Heavy gives you your champion's maximum + 50. (Doesn't sound right.)
Does armor value count down slowly if it is above champion's max?

I suspect different absorption values would be confusing. When everyone has the same value, you can make decisions in a split second about how much utility your team would get out of a pickup by looking at how many armor points would be gained by the pick up.

In the end, it might be worth giving the armor to anarki because he can then use his advantage (which he must have to make up for the lower hp + ap) and enabling that advantage (through armor) might be more useful than enabling another character's advantage in the given situation.

Clutch might have more hp + ap, but he moves slower, so he will take damage at a faster rate anyway, making the value of his armor similar to the value of the lesser amount of armor anarki has.

I am pretty stoked atm. Overall it looks good. I hope for brightskin, picmip (and nomip for shaft!) and weapon placement, but these things aren't deal breakers (and probably won't happen).

Your poll is pretty absolute.

I'm sure everybody here is looking forward to a new Quake game, one way or another.

There is still stuff to be sceptical about...

- No Mod support or other user created content announced
- Might fail to gather a large audience because too casual for Quake players and too hardcore for everyone else
- Two competitive modes (Duel and Team) might divide the player base
- No community server?
- Only 3 game modes announced as of now... will modes like Freeze Tag, CTF, Insta, A&D even be added?
- What about Defrag/Race? Seems not possible with speed limits...

Just because id is adding microtransactions and heros, it doesn't mean that the game will get popular...

What kind of mods do we need?

Hopefully, unlike other quakes, this game will be a complete game on release and not need fixing by third-parties.

Mods that introduce additional games modes risk fragmenting the community as we have seen before, which you also acknowledge when you talk about two competitive game modes.

If there are alternative modes besides the main modes, they should be novelty modes that don't steal people away from the main modes.

Maybe new modes can be added tentatively once the main modes are well populated.

I don't think it will be too casual for quake players. I think most of them will play it just because it has "quake" in the name, even a lot of the naysayers. Many of them are playing overwatch. If they can handle that, they can handle QC.

where is ztn ? no ztn , no quake .. ez

Looks faster than I thought.

Movement looks floaty.

Graphics look pretty good which could be good for sponsorship.
Might benefit from tweaking the shaders to make it look a bit more cartoon-like so players are more inclined to keep the HQ settings and maintain good visibility. However good a game looks, it will look shit if you turn the lighting and bump maps off, so if you're smart, you might get around that.

Unique character abilities have not fully come through yet, and given that's the defining part of the game I would like to see more on that and how it impacts a typical game.

Either way I feel its done its enough to get people from multiple games to try this one out at the same time, so that in itself seems like a good thing.

What's important is they give a good representation from the start without any obvious holes, better to hold the game back for an extra 3 months of polish, than give us something where we're saying it needs this and that and by the time it gets done players have gone back to their comfort game and the window is closed. There should be no need for a Quake Champions Max Mode.

Additionally, keep some money back for online tourneys.

I reckon we probably have too many competitive FPS doing that cartoonish graphics thing, what with TF2, overwatch, and diabotical.

I guess reflex avoided being cartoonish by looking more textureless.

I think I prefer the outline solution posted by anonymous in this thread: http://imgur.com/NI4Dlx0

overwatch looks like a childrens game, this just looks more "grownup" , if that even makes sense . Hate cartoonish, overused and gets old quickly. (in theory it stays young for longer, but in practice not so much,looks cheaper)

I am definetly looking forward to this game , havent been this excited about Quake since 1999 .

tbh i like this somewhat more casual approach , because then i can choose to either play casual, or go hardcore if i so choose .
Im sure this game will be hardcore enough for those who wants it.
They are actually listening to top Quakers this time around =)

Actually, i dont think id has ever put this amount of time and effort into making a good quake\multiplayer game ever before .

Think about it, quake3 is a very simple game , carmack didnt even want to put in strafejumping, and community had to make mods to make it better after release .

Looks solid. ID can't do trailers for shit.

If you don't like "cartoonish" then things that need to disappear are:

- Hit sounds that sound like a downie hitting a triangle
- Simple pick-up items
- The simplistic UI elements that still look like a Tom Cruise movie and not like everything else in Quake (dark and satanic)
- Floating damage numbers - when did this shit turn into an FPS thing? It's for RPG's, get rid of it.
- Crosshairs that look like they were made in MS paint.

Among other things. I don't understand why something like a score- or health-meter UI element has to look like a Scaleform/Flash template. It ruins the overall look of the game. It's distracting, it's ugly, it doesn't fit and it doesn't even help. Also, it's not "pro", it's the exact opposite of pro. Do you want giant interaction prompts too? PREZ E 2 NAIBLE THA JUMP PAD, DAWGCK.ne

Plenty of ways you can make these things look good and Quake 2017 worthy.

I don't see the correlation between not liking cartoonish graphics in every game that attempts to maintain visibility and something like crosshairs.

What kind of fancy crosshair do you need?

There is a line between where things should be artistic and where things should be functional, and not everyone will agree where that line should be drawn. It's not all one or all the other.

I could do without those damage numbers, but I do like my hud devoid of unnecessary or distracting elements.

I'm all for making other aspects of the UI that don't interfere with the game as dark and as satanic as you want. :D

Simple items are just to get rid of animated things that aren't the enemy. The loss of that art doesn't really change the atmosphere of the game in the way that having reflex-style textureless graphics or overwatch-style comic book graphics would.

I'm not saying those design decisions in those games were bad, but there is not need for QC to be the same as them.

It does change the atmosphere, it makes it look like some kid has been playing with nuclear Lego in a medieval English torture chamber. Sprites are even worse, just look at this garbage:

http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2...-32-44.png

Looks like a UI designed for people with terrible eye-sight and the 2D simple items make it even worse. I don't get it, isn't part of being a pro-Quaker knowing where this shit is on the map? People play this game 24/7 and after 18 years they still don't remember where the red armor is? What am I not understanding?

They spend so much time on making the game look good but then they tack on some shitty static Scaleform HUD and it just makes it look like a cellphone game.

The fact that that line I talked about is gonna be different for different people is probably a good argument for having at least some of these things configurable in options.

The only time that is really a problem is when such configurability would force people to use ugly settings to be competitive. For a lot of these things, it is just personal preference, and performance gain, if any at all, merely comes from the player being most comfortable, in the same way as there is no best mouse for every player, and the player plays best with the mouse he finds most comfortable.

Something like a total change of art style is obviously not configurable, so we need to choose something that is artistically attractive to the target audience.

Also, people do know where the items are. They just use simple items to get rid of distracting animations. If they see some rotating rocket launcher in the corner of their eye during a duel, they might think it is their opponent. It is something for people who want to squeeze out every last drop of advantage they can, but then eventually they get used to it as an aesthetic in its own right and don't want to part with it.

Maybe we should put in a UI timer for armor pick-ups too then. "Professionals need more advantages" - I know you don't agree with this.

I would be more impressed with a guy who uses no HUD, no crosshair and still wins than with someone who needs to "squeeze out every advantage". It's one of the things that ruined WoW (don't dismiss the argument just because it's an RPG), they allow everything basically to the point that bots play the game for you.

The argument that "because everyone can do it" is terrible. It's like saying a cyclist who dopes and wins is still a legit winner because all the other cyclists were just not smart enough to do the same; it was available to them too right?

The result of applying this logic is that games just become dumber and nobody likes watching a dumb game, we've already got tons of that shit on TV.

It's already come to a point where people just accept shit like Autohotkey overlays, just because it seems impossible to level the playing field to begin with (since everyone has different hardware). It's like everyone said fuck it, we can't balance this thing so let's just derp it up completely. I hate that as much as I hate games that look like cellphone garbage.

I'm pretty sure the items will have timers in QC, just not displayed on the hud. The timers appear above the item.

Professionals in every highly competitive domain, like sports and "e-sports", always try to squeeze out every advantage they can. They will even play mindgames with their opponents before the game or in chat during the game, for that purpose, or carefully control how they sleep and eat before an event. Maybe they think nofap is the key or will wear a lucky piece of clothing.

If they are doing these things within the rules of the game and tournament (unlike doping cyclists), there is no problem.

We are discussing what those rules should be.

Obviously, we would agree bots playing the game for you or other third-party software should be against the rules and would therefore be classified as cheating.

I was specifically talking about configuration options that do not provide universal advantage, i.e. options that are more about comfort than performance gains that make using those settings mandatory for everyone who wishes to compete regardless of how ugly they are (hello, CPMA xerp).

Hardware differences won't account for much advantage among the high-skilled crowd because they take the game seriously enough to buy hardware good enough that further improvements in it would be ineffective. And because of matchmaking, those players will be playing with each other rather than with the noobs or others with bad hardware.

and you think timer above item before they appear is good mechanic? Dumbing down the game...less skill requirement.

I never said it was a good mechanic. I was just stating what I have seen. All the PAX videos show these item timers.

My view on timers:
http://esreality.com/post/2860741/re-quake-ch...pid2860732

lost me at no fap :D

http://i.imgur.com/pclcIuR.jpg

:D

nothing will ever be like quake 3 unfortunately. but i will still give this a try.

fucking hyped m8

it looks interesting so far, lets wait and see how the gameplay is ...
its still quakish, and I like quake :-)

at least we dont have to pay to get disappointed
but it looks better than i thought it would be

I'm waiting for it. And very hyped, like, VERY!!!

90% are looking forward to it and only 10% don't :O

QC <3

Looks like overhyped shite but I will still buy and try it. Doubt I'll play it much but you never know.

.

its not cpma movement just aircontrol.

I just want to play the piece of shit and see for myself.

The community was enraged over loadouts.....
But are looking forward to abilities? lol
It's doom with strafing.
i think everyone is excited over the name quake.

Well one thing they did do right for QC, is they went and recruited a few shills. People see these bigger names praising QC and figure, wow, this is going to be awesome!

The idea of abilities itself isn't all that bad. What is fucking awful though, is the actual abilities they chose to put in the game. Aside from how much ridicule other games have gotten from this crowd in the past. It's nothing compared to the amount of ridicule cheaters have gotten. But, a wallhack becomes an official ability in QC and these guys are falling over themselves trying to pat sync&co on the back.

Would it have been better if zhu and others stated they only cheated every 30sec?

You have no idea how its going to be implemented and balanced yet.

Pretty sure its not going to be as bad as you make out.

Is it really a cheat if it is part of the game?

If I installed some software that enabled me to strafe jump in some game that doesn't have strafe jumping, I'd be cheating in that game, but that doesn't make strafe jumping a cheat, or like a cheat, in quake.

Whether visor's temporary wallhack ends up imbalancing the game, we shall see. I'm skeptical too, but I'll most likely give it a try.

No, it's just retarded beyond point.

While it would be accessible to anyone in the game. It's still a bitch ass mechanic that's no better than a cheater using it now. It takes no skill to enable it and see an enemy through walls. Actually, it takes a bit of skill out of the game.

For a game who's mantra so far seems to be, "SKILL BASED FPS!", there sure are many features and abilities that reduce or completely negate the need for certain skills to accomplish things.

And perhaps there are differences in game, I only know from the OW wiki page. But for a game that supposedly isn't copying OW, there sure does seems like there are many similarities in abilities between the two games at least "on paper".

I see your angle. You are saying both bad game mechanics and cheaters ruin the game equally well. But I always expect more ridicule in a gaming community for cheaters than just about anything else. They are well regarded as scumbags. And who are we to ridicule for a game mechanic? id software? I don't think anyone will hate them as much as they hate a cheater.

I hope the abilities don't detract from the skill level too much in QC. Only time will tell.

How long does this wallhack ability even run for anyway? I can see it being a problem in duel, but how much of an advantage would it be in TDM or whatever new team-mode they are pushing?

I can't imagine myself even using it. How do you decide when to use it? I'm entering a doorway. There could be someone there, and I just happen to have my wallhack ability ready to use. Should I turn it on to check? Maybe someone more experienced with using wallhacks can fill me in. :D

It's a dumb mechanic that shouldn't exist.

I don't find it half as bad as Nyx's ghostwalk (y'know, total invisibility + invulnerability + potential telefrag all for the cost of not being able to fire) or Scalebearer's allegedly doing damage just by landing next to someone or his bullrush 175 damage just for bumping into someone.

Time will tell. :D

I know it's all fluff. Could work out great for some folks.

still don't care nothing for it

Yet you spent years working on a dead mod and posting change logs.
Funny that...

2 years, once you have recoded most of the SDK, its not exactly hard to add a load of new stuff in a few hours

started doing all the MP stuff in 2011/12

take all you 2 years to tweak a few lines of code

not add water, lipsynced voice taunts, water, movable in water, air jumps, strafe jumping, dodge jumps, god power up, alternative fire, full custom player models, and everything else Q43A has

none of the code exists outside of Q43A for most of the stuff it has, so Q43A has 5000 extra lines added to the SDK which is all the new stuff

Has fatal1ty given his opinion yet?

10 Time World Champion Best Gamer of All Time fatal1ty!??!

Probably too busy choking on his Gamer Food.

he is at discord chan. but I haven't seen him talking.

Looks cool, will be fun to try it out! Still a big question mark on the abilites, could be a lot of fun or make the game annoying as fuck so time will tell :)

I'm liking the passive abilities with different movement. I'm a bit worried that some active abilities seem very powerful, Nyx one especially. Is having powerful active abilities on a cooldown really a good idea? it seems to me like it will lead to passive play where people avoid fighting until their ability is off cooldown.

Overall I'm glad they're doing something different and I hope for the best :]

That "Quake feeling" is unparalleled in modern day shooters. Playing quake 3 till dawn with people over my formative years were some of the greatest gaming moments ever.
Hanging out on irc waiting to play or watch the biggest tournies on GTV were great times.

Maybe I'm nostalgic. Maybe I'm blind to the fact that "herp derp modern shooters have moved on" I don't fucking care what the overwatch generation think about quake. They'll think it's too hard as they fragged by old school quake heros.
A reboot of sorts with wizz bang graphics , tight controls, perfect weapon balance and eye blistering speed is what we all need.

I want that quake zen high you get from hours of sustained practice. You know you can do better , you strive for that perfect kill or perfect quad run.

It's modern day meditation.

I cannot wait to try it out.

OR you get so hyped you start collecting information, video and everything.

Allways live, allways spinning logo.
twitch.tv/filozor

Quake Champions media and Quake music, if it sits it fits.