LOL

Tactical!

I want to be optimistic, but I honestly can't see duel not sucking with champions

Indeed....it adds more nuissance not more depth IMO as Wilits said.
As seen in the video's so far respawn time in TDM is too slow, if this is also in Duel in 5 seconds someone can pick 2 major items while you just wait to grab a second champion....hope that will not be the case.
Also clean Duel should be available, 1 champion, no abilities, everyone the same as it was always thus far...we still remain to see the beta, hoping before or around easter.

So how would we switch champions? Right after we spawn it would be nice to hotkey 1st 2nd and 3rd champion...but wouldn't that add a delayed spawn?

As seen in TDM spawn-delay is already there with 5seconds to choose next champion. Quake was never a game when you forcebly wait 5seconds to respawn. Basic things you die you spawn instantly second later....no waiting...no gimmicks.

I found this interview yesterday and read it..
and after some thought - basically what they are saying is - these champion 'abilities' make it easier for new players in team modes (come and play) but add a layer of complexity to duel and experienced players.

Aren't they just telling us what they think we want to hear and they'll do what they want anyway? Just like they did with the changes they made to Quake Live.

The game looks visually lovely and by all accounts so far - seems to play well - but am I alone in wishing they'd at least leave the duel mode 'ability free'?

Take for example the recent rapha v evil Quakecon final - with all the overtimes it had - place any of those abilities toward the end of those overtimes and you just wouldn't have had the same match. It would have ended much earlier.. in a whimper.

How does dropping what are basically proximity mines (Galena) at the exit of teleporters and doorways raise the skill-level of the game?

example:
You are chasing your opponent on ZTN to equalise with a few seconds of the game remaining - you use Visor's wallhack from the mega area and see your opponent hiding at the lower tele below RA (annoying at the best of times) so you chase - only to get there and he's dropped a totem/mine right in front of the tele.. Game Over

It's not my intention to hit on the game before it's release - but I'd rather they left duel alone.. please.

Otherwise we are looking at a whole different Quake.

You are looking at a different Quake game...

It would appear so... which is a REAL shame.

The (potentially) much larger audience get a watered-down version of this great game.

Stick to Quake Live, because its what you want... you know, Quake Live.

I hear you.
to be honest - that's what's likely to happen.

I, for one, am excited about a new game with new abilities.

hi

shut up!

Exactly, positioning in quake was always one of the trickiest skills, especially in the situations when you are outstacked, out of control or just being unlucky. In those situation positioning and sound matters the most. If in those moments for example you are being out of control but the game is tied and only 20sec left on a clock, you are pushing to overtime but wait what? Your opponent is using visor ability, sees where you are, sneaks on you and bang....game-over. These situation will happen too many times to consider abilities as a good thing inside duel....so yes....duel Ability-Free mode please.

You don't even assume the player out of control will have his own ability to equalize that advantage. It works both ways, duel won't consist of just one of the players having an ability. These abilities will create an atypical balance, the player without the visor won't have the possibility to create a scenario just like you described, but he will have something that will create a proportional advantage.

I get it, players are skeptical, but for the most part this skepticism is poorly backed up with reasoning that's even worse than a logical fallacy, just blunt ignorance and narrow perspective on what's the real issue here. A better argument would touch the matter of balance, but even that is rubber stretching and mostly just vain weighting of some probabilities.

"Take for example the recent rapha v evil Quakecon final - with all the overtimes it had - place any of those abilities toward the end of those overtimes and you just wouldn't have had the same match. It would have ended much earlier.. in a whimper."

Thats nonsense

Fine..
but I fail to see how it could have improved what we got.

It makes total sense you mong. The finals were amazing, you could feel the tension, it was so even, one small mistake and the thing was over.

This tension is destroyed as soon as someone gets the mandatory "ultimate" ability. No more x5 overtimes.

How so? If it was in QC and either were using Ranger, they could've teleported/blinked away and avoided being caught out.

I think the point is you're reducing the complex strategies/tactics behind positioning, map control, aim etc to rock paper scissors!

Let's wait and see. I have confidence in noctis' capabilities and experince. Old quakers are afraid to lose their hard earned experince with the game francise and whine about champions in duel. Take a chill pill.

However I do feel like the cool down on champions' abilities are kinda low. I have a feeling that around a 2 min cooldown would be more fitting, so the game would still feel like a action packed game where players have to be reserved with their abilites, instead of +back and wait for ability cool downs.

Bash away ppl. \o/

same, I trust noctis to get the balance right

If you are so convinced that i have even contributed the slightest idea to duel i'd like you to get all of your noctis bashing/blaming/hating out of your system right now so that nonsense is behind me.

fyi: i really don't care about duel and "my" quake would look very different from this game. Which is not to say i won't play it regardless though.

I was just happy you replied to my post above.
:o)

I apportion no blame whatsoever - and don't agree with bashing.
Must be great to be involved - at whatever level.

I would have loved to be involved on the art side of things.


(I think g0uken jokingly meant people were to bash his opinion?)
That's what I took from it anyway.

You're alright with us noctis :o)

TL;DR; Noctis did 9/11 and ruined duel in quake champions as well. Should stick to petting kangaroos and having bbq's.

I obviously have no idea what you are doing together with id software, but I figured you had something to do with duel. Oh well.

What is it exactly you are doing? ............ :D

I played the game at QuakeCon and gave them my feedback, that's pretty much the extent of my contributions.

They just wan't their obiwan/anakin moment.

Cause pointing fingers is fun..


Also everyone knows you are the long lost love child of John Carmack here to get back ID on track, you know it to be true!

what did you say?

>we know the speed of a rocket

no you don't

850 fps man

Shaking things up. I like it.

It's frustrating how averse to change the majority of this community is.

It's because this community is what's left behind when all the less-averse to change members move to CS, Q4, UT, LoL, OW, SM.. ? If it's a new game that doesn't appeal to certain purity and balance, it's a different game, requiring difference preferences. Why is this so frustrating?

That's true, can't expect anything different so it doesn't make sense to be annoyed by it.

and that pretty much explains it (+) x10

That is the vocal minority of Quake players. The ones that still post here.

On Discord the vibe is the complete opposite and there's at least 10 times more people than here.

Bring back VoO

V o 0
o
0

shaking my ball sack

I had a good feeling. Until now...

grenade launcher or riot

maybe the napalm gun from Q4 too? it was more fun :)

so much text for barely any info.
less Willits, more quake, pls

Wallhack and proximity mines sound awful to me in duel. That being said I am looking forward to some new gameplay.

Yeah, any kind of ability to set traps will inevitably force players to be cautious and slow down gameplay. Not my cup of tea.

proximity mines are scum shit in any mode

They are good in dota :)

i just meant in quake specifically

i loved using mines in my own team's base in tribes1/2 with team damage enabled

id software needs to sign the treaty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Treaty

can we have an image to support this please?

That was really important for us: not to mess that up.

best thing for the game would be to GET RID OF CHAMPIONS

www.quakelive.com

They clearly have no confidence their game could ever compete with Overwatch without parroting it's main propriety

How? The fact is it objectively makes a game more interesting to watch and play, it's a staple in any successful e-sport, CS included.

So maybe QC couldn't compete with Overwatch without it.. good job it's been added right? Like I said earlier QL will continue to exist and people are welcome to stay in the past, they aren't taking that away from anyone.

Get out of here with this "objectively" shit. :D

I have rarely felt more boredom spectating a game than when spectating overwatch.

Don't have time to watch or play Overwatch so I've actually never seen any footage of it. My point is it doesn't make any sense to deviate from an established model that's presently implemented in every top tier e-sport just because people are averse to change.

Their job is to create a successful e-sport game first and foremost, not pander to the decade long veterans who want to see the same shit day in day out with updated graphics and matchmaking.

Yeah well, not everyone likes change for change's sake.

And not everyone thinks these changes are improvements.

Deviating from what others do is called being original. Something you should appreciate if you like change so much.

Time will tell whether what they are doing with QC is any good. :D

Nobody knows if they'll be an improvement as nobody has seen it firsthand, and not even the dev's will fully be aware of how far the meta can go or if it will be successful.

This is why products prior to open release have what's called a beta stage.

And unfortunately it's not about what everyone likes, it's about what the majority likes. And most people do actually enjoy change.

Changing from what's seen as a presently successful and near optimal model isn't just being original though, it's being stupid on the business front.

Yep, i agree :) We'll see, I'll enjoy it regardless but I just like to run around and shoot stuff so...

Obviously it is all just speculation at this point, but if people can't do that, then they can't say anything about what the game will be, even if what they are saying is good.

Are we talking about what is good for business or what we want to play? :D

Actually I just want a game that resembles existing quakes but is different enough to bring in a large player base.

In any case, there is no way I'll play it or any other game as much as I have played the other quakes in the past. Too old. :D

Well the fate of Quake Champions as an e-sport is not only linked to mimicking current successful models but also the success it achieves financially, they're tied into each other and act as a feedback loop.

So it's fair enough if you're after a game you enjoy, but if you really want to see Quake survive and achieve longevity, you should be rooting for ID to make sound decisions on a business front equally. And some of these implementations are likely down to their business interests. That makes me game.

Yeah, the point is a company can make a lot of money selling garbage to retards, and I won't want anything to do with it.

I only want id to make good business decisions if their financial success benefits me in some way, and that won't happen if the game they produce isn't to my taste.

Anyway, I don't wanna sound too negative about the game. Let's hope they produce a good game that also brings them financial success.

"doesn't make any sense to deviate from an established model that's presently implemented in every top tier e-sport just because people are averse to change."

but this is quake, its is the only game of this sort..
there a thousands of ability shooters with all kinds kinds of features, do we really need one more?

also this is quake, it was like the only mature game left..

whatever i think it will do fine, but i also think that it will be forgotten in about a year - year and a half!

in reality i was hoping for quake live with a new engine, proper matchmaking, and a better netcode.. so that the population grows!

thught ecperiment: imagine quake champions releases, and somehow it would have the same amount of players like quake live.. would you then not rather play ql ?

I'd be more inclined to play whichever I'm better at.

For the record, CS:GO does not have abilities.

It does not no but I meant more the ability to change weapons off the spawn each round. Although my CS:GO knowledge is shit and I've only played it a handful of times so you can correct me on that.

Ladies and gentlemen I believe we have our first shill on ESR

Did you just imply that counter-strike has champions?

Wrong. The finals between rapha and evil are objectively more interesting to watch than seeing a slow ass duel match with guys taking a nap in between respanws because they have to choose their champion.
Also no more nerve breaking overtimes because the balance is broken easily depending on the champions and their abilities.

The truth is, the purity of a raw skill duel of Quake is the ultimate duel fps experience. It's a fact.
But what we have here is id software using the Quake name and getting rid of uniqueness by adding trendy Overwatch/LoL tier stuff on top.

I'm sure they'll be smart enough to have an auto respawn if the player wants to keep the same champion.

It seems they find more value in similarity than in difference. Rather than emphasise the value of Quake and its difference to other titles, they presume to make the game more similar and in the process sacrifice what actually makes it great.

Coherence point here:

- 'There are a lot of hero-based games out there - why is this one different?' But each of our champions is FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT: they really PLAY DIFFERENTLY.

The next sentence:

- The champions really DON'T CHANGE THE WAY YOU PLAY the game - they enhance it and add to that experience."

lol

Its his job to lie. He probably even has very little understanding of how the game works, his only role is to try to pander to everyone interested in the game

aye! approved comment... who cares about esr community, when they have to earn some money and sell tons of copies... as we see, OW is not Q and has great amount of sells

The most important aspects of duel have and will still be timing and position. Different abilities will change the meta in terms of in/out of control play but it won't change duel at it's most basic level. Why is this so difficult to understand for people...

Fuck that gay shit. I love the concept of dropping mines for it's infinite trolling potential, but i still realize it's absolutely retarded to pollute duel with that shit.

Beside, it'd be impossible to balance properly, so there would always be some op tier gaylord and some trash tier gaylord.

Morons

iam only interested in team modes, so yea, bring something fresh to the game!

holy moly trinity `_´

oO

a pokemon like duel system.... hmmmm well let's hope that the abilities of the players don't differ that much......
Still kinda seems like a bad idea.
I hope to be proven wrong though (although that's extremely rare)

I think the new Duel will be pretty good. I mean everyone will have the same conditions as allways so I think it will just add some more strategy and diversity around how its played.

My QC boner was steady for many days, now im limp as fuck.

When will some of you understand that if ID wasn't experimenting and adding new stuff and idea you would be still playing Q1/Q2 game with modern graphics. Remember all the changes they made that were initially criticized by community but in the end turned out to be good. To name a few:
- RG damage reduction to 80
- duel timelimit changed to 10min.
- drop weapon in TDM
- respawn system redesign

Let them do they job. They proved to be good at it. Look at other Arena shooters like Reflex, Warsow, Diabotical. Did they invent anything new in terms of gameplay? They just copy Quake adding new look and feel. One invention apart from gameplay was Diabotical's lobby. Good idea to replace game UI, but it doesn't change the way you play the game. I don't know anything about game modes in DB though, but other games did not introduce anything fresh.

FPS nowadays needs solid and entertaining objective oriented team modes. Not just two groups of people playing FFA.

Just sayin', but those changes you mentioned seem pretty trivial compared to what they're doing with QC.

This, you can't really compare reducing the damage of a weapon to introducing fucking champions.

I agree with you. I just wanted to show historical examples of community being against devs decisions which in the end became non negotiable standard. We need to give them chance. I was convinced they are going to put champions only to teamplay modes. I'm surprised with this announcement but there is possibility it's gonna be good. Eventually If it turns out bad they for sure gonna pull back champions from Duel or community will drive custom servers with champions turned off. There's no threat in any case.

You bring up some good points, but here's a few examples of changes made to deathmatch that have pretty much hurt the following games.

Sheildgun - UT2K3

Pills - UT2K3

Shadows - D3

Reloading - D3

Stakegun - PK

Crouchsliding - Q4

It can be a gamble with change, but a common element between what you mentioned, and what isn't present in those other ones, is that all of yours were balance changes to pre-existing elements. And were all debated on, or asked for. It wasn't change for the sake of it.

We're just weary of mistakes that have happened in the past to other deathmatch games happening again to Quake.

(I've been all for Heroes in team modes though)

I'm not familiar with UT2K3 and D3 but I think it's the problem with these games not becoming big is not related to anything on the list you wrote. Tons of people enjoyed crouchsliding in Q4, but I don't really remember why we went back to Q3. I had pretty old PC at the time of Q4 premier so I almost missed the whole thing.

On top of that, ALL of the patches he listed were originally requested by the community, and id lagged behind for months before fixing the stuff.

Just to be clear: NOTHING new is invented by game developers since few years, every single idea and thousands more is proposed by independent players that plays ton of stuff and knows what would be cool/funny/interesting, all the devs do is browse forums in search of ideas, copypaste some ideas on notepad, and say "we're gonna try this one, this one and this one".

It's id or Id, or [id], there is no D, it's a fucking word, id. How many years does it take to figure this out?

There are millions of people who can't grasp the differences of 'there, their, and they're'... what makes you think they would get this right?

cuz their is ez, but to cap a letter iz extra effort, seems weird bruh

Damn. They don't use "ID" since 1992. Fuck me. I need to clear that in my mind once and for ever.

http://www.mobygames.com/company/id-software-inc/logos

haha, yeah, I guess you *could* just be super old school, but then it should be ID :)

Yea, I'm not that much old school. One of my first games on PC was Doom around 1995 and it had 'id' logo already so no excuse for me :).

That "We're In Demand!" slogan is super nostalgia inducing.

It is also quite possibly what originally made people think id was an abbreviation, for "In Demand". I dunno. :D

"In Demand Software", make sens. Good catch even if it's false.

"When the guys christened their company, they shortened the Ideas from the Deep initialism and simply called themselves id, for 'in demand.' They also didn’t mind that, as Tom pointed out, id had another meaning: 'the part of the brain that behaves by the pleasure principle.'"

If that's the case, then it isn't really such a sin to call them ID as an abbreviation. :D

I just use "id software" or "id" since that's what I see written all over their literature. I pronounce it as the word, not two letters.

Maybe they didn't like "AYE DEE software" because it sounds like the word for identification.

The Doom one was the best. I get auto dopamine rush seeing it. Good times.

Did they invent anything new in terms of gameplay?

Hell yeah! Warsow did wall jump

those changes are/were actually pretty bad

-duel time limit 10min was done because other players (specs) shouldnt wait so long till its their turn... comebacks are almost impossible anymore, 1st frag decides mostly the entire game so everybody +back for their lives. great change!

-drop weapon isnt bad but it doesnt change much

-spawn system change doesnt matter. You just need to know how it works and spawn killing will continue

-rg dmg change... its just all the cry babys who cant beat rail heavy players. In the end it made weapons unbalanced

you forgot changes like much lower weapon respawn. This killed some game strategy. It was done just to make it easier for newbies...

so all in all they made quake more newbie friendly at the cost of ingame depth

Since you cant compare those bad changes to adding heroes....

QUAKE CHAMPIONS got similar stupid changes additional to heros like ITEM TIMER on every major item (quad, ra & mh).

QL is more than rail heavy enough at 80dmg. I'm not sure how you can see this as unbalanced.

It's a gun that only requires line of sight for a hit, and 50%+ accuracies are commonplace.

It's a gun that stifles free movement too, since you have to dodge or remain hidden at any range if your opponent has it. I actually find it refreshing to watch matches on dm13 precisely for this reason.

100dmg rail is from a time when your average player was using a ball mouse and 640x480 resolution at 60fps on a 19" screen if they were lucky, and on much shitter internet.

That said, it might be interesting to see a 100dmg rail with a longer reload time.

I don't agree with almost every sentence from your post. You were majority of players opinion back in the days, but today I bet you're in minority.

Duel is now more intense, of course the longer the match last the more chance it is that better player wins. If you set timelimit to 1h then probably rapha won't lose any game till end of the world, but it wouldn't be interesting. Having tl10 now you can play bo5 and bo7 instead of bo3 which makes more sens and variety of player skills clutch. TL15 had this problem than if someone reached large frag advantage you have to watch another 5 min of rape or +back. It's not really interesting. The number of comeback in last 5 minutes was not that high as you may think.

I dunno if you played TDM at all and if yes it was only random FFA or with organized team. I played tons of matches with my clan in Q3 and this was really frustrating to wait 10 sec protecting the gun on the floor for my team mate to come and pick it up. Drop weapon increased the level of possible team cooperation which is very good for team mode. Many times I've seen top teams shuffling weapons depending on the role and position they play.

Spawn system is much better now. No more random spawn killing, now you need to understand it and think to get free frags. Also first spawns in the match are usually fair, when both players can split into MH and RA. It still can happen but it's really rare and sometimes caused by wrong decision or gamble.

Direct rocket gives 100dmg, why you want easy to hit RG to do the same damage? It was necessary to reduce RG and LG damage because PCs are better, pings are lower, hitboxes are easier to hit. Quake needed these changes to make other guns viable in at least a few situations.

Item timers make sense on public games where you have random people just running around and shooting people. It shall be disabled for competitive play where you have a team that's able to communicate item times over voice.

And in the end it's not about comparing these changes to adding heroes. It is just to point that devs proved in the past that they usually are right when community is wrong or at least that whiny conservative part of community popping out at ESR.

duel is so intense in 10min tl... that there were several games whivch ended 1:0 and the first frag was done at about the 7-8th minute mark.... so we had to watch +back +back +back and the one who +back even better gets the first frag. Very interessting matches. Full of action
Its still made shorter just for public servers so specs dont have to wait so long and tournaments just adopted it. Nobody actually wanted the change

About damage... better ping & netcode isnt an argument at all! Quake was and ever will be a game for LAN. It worked perfectly back in the days but now... wanna tell me its easier to hit on LAN nowadays?
There was a system behind damage and armor/health. Take a RA/MH but get hit by rail equalized it. Now its still worthy to take a RA/MH and get hit. Still 20hp/armor gain.
A direct rocket does 100dmg and rockets fly faster than in vq3 so its easier to hit direct hits. In vq3 it took skill to hit airrockets and you was rewarded with 100dmg. Now RL is way too strong in mid range where LG should dominate. Additionally they nerfed LG damage because its easier to hit with LG on LAN nowadays...
ohh and hitboxes were bigger in vq3 but you wanna tell me its easier to hit smaller ones?

You actually think they will disable item timers for competitive matches? A lot of newbs will cry... and Berthesda want to make QC easier for everyone so no way they will disable them. Same with heros. I never thought heros would make it into duel mode but... berthesda...

I played tdm in clan and pickups (mainly q4 tdm). Its a nice feature but not game changing. You could just switch roles back in tha days.

So it is easier to hit LG on LAN nowadays, but not easier to hit rail on LAN nowadays?

Whatever changes they made to rockets (11% speed increase with significantly nerfed splash damage), hitting a direct rocket is still much harder than hitting a rail.

captain obvious this was meant sarcastic. LAN ping never changed. Its not possible to get a lower ping than 1-2ms.

Its just slightly harder to hit on LAN nowadays because of decreased hitboxes. Ofc this is for all hitscan weapons

Your sarcasm doesn't come across so well in text.

Nothing is harder to hit. People are hitting the same accuracies or higher. Improvements in hardware (and also skill levels) are the reason hitbox sizes were reduced.

In 1999 when they made q3, they actually thought that pointing and clicking on a hitbox that size was hard, thus making rail do 100dmg.

There's nothing hard about hitting the original q3 hitbox with a railgun, especially on certain angles due to the cuboid shape.

If you want 100dmg, you need to have 1800+ ms reload time to counter it. Otherwise it is a retardedly OP weapon.

rail is OP in exessive mod


in 1999 nobody complained and fatal1ty ruled the scene. When fatal1ty saays iits alriight it havve too be right.

Even in this famous comeback video three years after the game's release, you can see how terrible fatal1ty's aim is by today's standards---all due respect to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlbIIcvqr0g

At that stage, rail was not OP at 100dmg, so of course no one complained. But that is simply no longer the case.

ye fatal1ty's aim wasnt best thats why I mentioned him instead of zero4 (a rail whore with a ball mouse!) or cooller. Its just natural a heavy rail user wont complain ;)

I never saw fat cry like the babys today althought he had to play zero4 on protourney4!

btw I still think zero4 was even better with his ball mouse

Fat was very professional. He probably would never complain about anything. :D

I'm pretty sure cooller did not like rail much.

If zero4 was better then with a ball mouse than now with an optical mouse, it's probably because he practised harder back then.

In any case, 100dmg rail with 1500ms reload would mean toxjq needs no other gun. :D

cmon its not like you could use rail at close or mid range vs rockets/lg and win easily. I think you (and a lot of other persons) are just butthurt by heavy rail users because you cant counter it.
Sorry but to me it sounds like:
"the enemy has so much better aim...nerf all aim weapons so I can have a 'fair' game"
unfortunaley ID listened...

next will be:
"the enemy has so much better item timing... give everyone the timings so I can have a 'fair' game"
unfortunaley ID listened again and we will see item timers in QC
what will be next?

back2topic:
Its very difficult to play rail abusers but there are ways to counter it.

In vq3 you could easily deny the rail from your enemy and get easy frags when he trys to pick it up but ID changed weapon respawn time to almost instant respawn and it doesnt work anymore. Nobody realizes how big the impact of weapon respawn time is... only noobs realize they can get a weapon and then die anyway

Almost instant weapon respawn means you get easily lots of slugs for the rail and so you dont care about ammo -> rail abuse (ofc this effects all weapons).

A good solution would be to limit the ammo gained by picking up a (or another) rail. Lets say 6 slugs/rail and you will think twice before you do use it. Ammo box additional 5 slugs. And ofc old weapon respawntimes.

It's not like that at all. It's about making other weapons more relevant.
There are other "aim weapons" than rail.
With a 100dmg-1500ms rail, the game becomes very rail-centric.

The rail player obviously wants to make it powerful because his aim, which he is so proud of, sucks with other weapons such as rockets. He's happy if he can keep his distance for the entire match and still win by using an OP railgun.

This isn't so much about the game being "fair". It is fair in the sense both players have access to the same shit. It is about ensuring the game allows for a diversity of playstyles, which in turn increases the skill ceiling of the game.

Besides, spending as much time as you can get away with far from the enemy and being rewarded for it is not really my idea of what quake should be.

There are counters to run-and-rail, but with your 100dmg rail, those counters would require more skill than running and railing does.

Yeah, I see no reason why you should get the same damage as a direct rocket for point and click from the opposite end of the map---even with different weapon respawn times.

Unless I'm mistaken, a railgun pickup in CPMA only gives you 5 slugs, and rail only does 80dmg there too.

5 second weapon respawn doesn't really help you collect rail ammo because you only get one slug for each additional pickup from the spawn point.

"It is just to point that devs proved in the past that they usually are right"

That's true when they're just trying to make a better game (e.g. CPMA devs implementing the changes you mentioned), but it's not so clear when they're just trying to make a more popular game.

No risk no reward :). Fast arena shooters is really challenging battleground in game industry :)

FPS nowadays needs solid and entertaining objective oriented team modes. Not just two groups of people playing FFA.

I'll start with this point because I agree with you here. 4v4 TDM is a dull experience and the champions could make it a little bit more interesting.

Then again, this news isnt about TDM, its about duel and people dont want it to become a rock-paper-scissors kind of mode.
And I mean thats a very legitimate concern, most of the abilities dont seem to be well-suited for a fair duel game. It would feel much better if the champions had different abilities for 1v1 and teamplay.

When will some of you understand that if ID wasn't experimenting and adding new stuff and idea you would be still playing Q1/Q2 game with modern graphics

Some of you people talk about evolution, getting with the times or new stuff and I fail to see why. QC is a mashup of dumbed-down Q3 gameplay, UT architecture and OW/moba hero model, that means of things that already exist. Hows this something new?
Its really funny when mentioned along with the first three quake titles, because all of them were innovative, if not revolutionary in many aspects. QC, no. People arent pissed because their favorite game is becoming something new, they are pissed because its becoming a copy.

Remember all the changes they made that were initially criticized by community but in the end turned out to be good. To name a few:
- RG damage reduction to 80
- duel timelimit changed to 10min.

These arent even valid changes, these are just variables. Also, the rail and lg nerf were used pre ql in cpma cq3. It worked out quite well then, but it didnt work for ql. I mean these changes along with the shorter timelimit, messed-up netcode and hitscan made quake a cautious item run rather than an interaction between players. I wouldnt really consider that as 'good'.

Let them do they job. They proved to be good at it. Look at other Arena shooters like Reflex, Warsow, Diabotical.

Here I assume you werent talking about id, as most of the team that made this brand so famous is long gone. So the current team proved themselves to be good at their job? When was that? Ql was a huge, huge fuckup.
And just for the sake of it, I dont believe that pointing at small titles without an actual budget or a game thats not even out yet is relevant to this topic.

[Its really funny when mentioned along with the first three quake titles, because all of them were innovative, if not revolutionary in many aspects.

Graphics (and full 3D in the first Quake) apart, what are you talking about?

Engines, networking, mod support to name a few.

so what happened to the "classic mode" without the champions and
bullshit that they promised? is that still happening Tim?

Probably only in a custom server that is inaccessible via matchmaking.

Y'know, the type of servers where you can shoot 20 rockets per second and stuff.

Don't whine to much, Willits and his crew does this in perfection and we don't got the beta for nothing.

>you can really have a lot of thinking to do and analysis in the matches, and it becomes another layer on top of just the raw skill
How can people just lie like this?

$_$

People think of Quake as an all-aim-no-brain shooter. He's appealing to them, saying now there's a new layer of strategy that wasn't there before. It's completely ignoring the fact that this view of Quake is erroneous, but it's not a lie in itself.

I really do support everything about Quake Champions being a Hero Shooter in the year 2017, and fully understand why another Arena FPS probably wouldn't work in this day and age. I fully supported Doom 4s take, in a modern sense, of the genre and am completely appreciative that it wasn't another Doom 3. Team modes have always been my thing in Quake, and I have little problem if 'Heroes' is the new way they want to go...

But can you, at the very least, please just leave Duel THE FUCK ALONE. Please leave at least one throwback mode from Quake in tact, Please.

guys stop reading Tim "Liar" Willits shit, just wait for beta and hope

Why do people keep saying 'leave duel alone' ?

They did say there would be a classic pack of modes for people to play didnt they ?

They wanted duel into esports but that wouldn't make sense to make it an exact copy of quake 3 / quakelive if their game is based upon champions and abilities, think for two seconds.

Those custom games won't have matchmaking

Those custom games will be dead, matchmaking wouldn't work anyway. See the redundancy in that request?

You got it all backwards mate. There's no particular problem for them to add it to matchmaking. They won't add it however, because it would kill their ability duel within a few weeks.

If they add a queue for Q3 duel and one for QC duel, I think we'd see the same old 100 players alone in the Q3 one and quite a few new players in the QC one. Let some time pass and I think you'd still have the same old 100 players alone in the Q3 one and nobody anymore in the QC one.

My thoughts exactly.

Let's give it a go. If it really is too awful, let's just put rules in place for tournaments, ex: Ranger only.

My biggest concern right now is that it will feel very awkward switching between a slow character and a fast character off of spawns. At least keep the running speed the same across all champions imo.

no this would make it kinda balanced! This isnt bethesda intention!

NASCAR vs F1

+forward champions ftw

another moba arena

This doesnt sound promising...but lets try it first...

Lets have few things in consideration:
For now we have FFA, TDM, Duel, Sacrifice....maybe there wil be also race and some other modes as they said, and new weapons but time will tell.

They also said that there will be ability to spawn your own servers with abilities off, so in general if we have Duel with abilities which shows that it is a failure and difficult to balance, we can spawn the server without them.

Also in current Duel model, ability should be limited to a number of times you can use or with double-triple cooldown.

As far as the game goes by itself, the only thing I'll be missing is the modability of the game, it is the only thing that kept Quake 3-4 alive after it's initial release and competitive scene wouldn't be a huge hit if it weren't for osp/cpma, q4Max and mappers/modders.
At least an arcade section such as in new Doom would be a start in that direction, but throwing away the component that made a game a huge hit is not a smart move.

If only ID accepting all ESR advices.....




HELL NO, DUMBFUCKS. Keep professionals doing their job at ID and u - esr whinebitches - keep whine here.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha.

The abilities could be split off to pickups in duel, rather than tied to the character? Combine that with a base "character" for movement/etc. Similar to medkit in ql or inventory in older FPS like hexen. Have an item "slot" and if a map has more than one item it overwrites the currently held item.

This way the maps can control what is available to a degree - no wallhacks for duel, ever, etc.

Clamps down on usage, assuming that ability is tied to life. Noone is respawning, hitting their ability and having an advantage.

Finally it breaks down the requirement for a "best" character as the ability pickups can be limited by what is included on the map.

I mean.. if we had to have them that is :/

I'm really looking forward to duel with champions and think it will be awesome.

The strategic options are really exciting and the new plays coming from those abilities will be very refreshing. And it will probably be much more entertaining for viewers (very important for any e-sport ambition).

and 7 lg / no grenades while keeping rail at 80 is needed, Duel is far too rail based as it is for a dynamic gaming and viewer experience.

Sneeky killing-drops, visor wall sight ambushes, rocket predictions on ranger teleport, etc. This is very promising. The only thing scaring is mines, thats completely anti-quake.

I can't believe how many of you whine and want it to be exactly quake live with enhanced graphics. You do realise it would be completely pointless ?

And you want ztn only I suppose, and no new maps ? Sigh.

hi tim.

There will be grenades. They said they're gonna release "new" weapons. One of those will obviousoly be gl.

Mines are anti-quake, but is looking forward to the added wallhack. lmao.

fps have a hard time getting viewers ... duel is still okayish ... but teamplay exceeds the attention span of most people

It's because teamplay in Quake have no story, no objective. Just two teams doing frags in different rates based on the map control they acquired. Eventually setups and team fights at power-up followed by quad runs are kind of interesting.

However it's not enough to collect big audience like CS:GO or Overwatch. There is always some story some approach teams take to win the game. Casters and studio experts have field of discussion about decisions made by teams or particular players. You have that clutch moments where match score is unknown till very end. In QL TDM tight endings are rare and viewer's adrenaline and excitement level keep too low during whole game to be addictive in any means.

"However it's not enough to collect big audience like CS:GO or Overwatch."

You just chose the two most boring spectator games as examples. :D

I don't think even Overwatch players like to spectate that game.

I just took top2 most viewed FPS games according to twitch.tv. CS:GO tournament events have really huge viewer base so definitely for them it's not boring :).

They have a lot of players. As a percentage of total active players, QL viewership may well be higher for big events. :D

If only 20% of Overwatch's players tuned in to an event, you'd have 5 million viewers.

You're right because QL has like 10% casual players while OW has like 10% competitive players (competitive player != player playing competitive mode).

Hmm I'm not sure you have to be competitive to want to watch something related to your hobby if it is actually exciting to watch.

Look at how many people watch soccer, and I'd be surprised if even 1% of them were competitive at any level in the game.

I played a bit of overwatch myself, but spectating others on twitch is just no fun to me ... the game is too complex, there are so many champions with different abilities and you dont really know what the others are doing ... imho. quake tdm is better watchable than overwatch, for example you understand quad runs etc., you see a bit of the positioning of the teamplayers and you see if a team trys to hold important areas of the map ... that is much easier to grasp than trying to understand what each champion with a certain special ability is doing somethere else ... and there is also no real grandeur to the gameplay of overwatch, like airfrags, multiple rails, good movement ... in quake you at least get to see some mad skillz even though you dont grasp the teamplay ... and does a objective help really that much, how well is ctf in quake doing compared to tdm?

n1 troll attempt

im waiting for a champion who got the counter ability to visors wallhack. An aimbot ^^

visor will be the best hero for cheaters... who will know if I use the ability or a hack for permanent wallhack. Nobody ever will find out!

because obviously a counter to wallhack is aimbot, ROFL

Why would a wallhacker use a hero if he already possess it's ability? Any other hero would make more sense, so you have something else in addition

CA for sure... makie is gona go mental. ..never to return in the realm of realnes :>

i bet they are trying every trick in the book to make this game good but thats not what makes a game great. Carmack had it and i dont believe anyone else have had it ever since.