Who the fuck are these crosseyed basement beasts that want everyone on the team get quad?! It's worse already when the quad doesn't disappear when the carrier is killed.

I thought I misread at first on the article cus I've never even seen anyone say that, not even as a joke. :D That would be ABSOLUTELY ridiculous, about as ridiculous as Quad Damage not being 4x.

small note....
Quad has done 3x dmg since Q3... So for about the past 18 years or so.

ye i know :p

Except it was actual 4x damage in early QL (got changed after like 1,5 years of open beta), so like 7 years ago.

hmmmmmmm, nope don't think so.

No really it was 4x in QL for quite a while in the beta, shotgun runs were pure carnage :D

literally was sniper shotgun haha

Even then SG did not do much damage at the distance. It just gave the player out of control better defense against rush -which worked fine in public matches bc the players out of control were usually worst duelers so things were a bit more balanced and the pros did not care anyway so they rushed against casuals anyway as there was still 70-30 percent chance to stomp on the noob.

The problems with the SG arise in competition bc everyone would play defensively or getting in control was not a big deal anymore thanks to closer skill gap.

iirc i remember times in ql beta when sg would be too effective way beyond it's intended useful range. it was a long time ago though like 2008-9? :D

It was until the cvar cg_trueshotgun was introduced, dmg and spread didn't have to do with the cvar, but it was the same patch iirc. Very late.

trueshotgun came a little while after the last spread change, and there were 2 or maybe even 3 of them, pellet damages changed too.
The spread originally formed a pentagram.

Good 'ol 80% sg acc with 200 ping.


))

i don't think that was because of this, sg acc was calculated wrong. basically if you hit at least 1 pellet every time you fired the shotgun, you had 100% acc with it.

I know. I was just reminiscing.

The disgusting sg-runs were mostly due to the pellet pattern with higher damage closer to the crosshair and lower damage towards the outside. Also jokingly called "sniper shotgun" if you remember.

Yes and BS wasn't harmed by splash at all.

SJW Reddit millenial scum.

Next time you pick up Quad, it's time to take a sec to check your privilege. Cause it's super unfair of you being the only one having a bonus. Quad lives matter.

I heard that it was a guy who lives on the second floor of a three floor house.

We know better than you do Tim. Stop being condescending.

Hahahaha how ridiculous would it be if everyone had Quad =D

I just found out everyone having Quad is actually a thing in QC... WTF

The whole team gets quad damage? What?

>Squad damage

that's it folks, we can now take ESR offline, it has been completed.

Thank you T1E

LMAO

Flawless!

Amazing

more like Orisa damage.

well played, sir

Can this thread be HOF just for this comment?

How about everyone gets Quad but the damage is divided by the number of players on the team?

how about we stop trying to change things that aren't broken

That's how you try to make casuals feel good at everygame man :)

I think it was a joke, if Quad is divided by 4... nobody get's anything lol

I tried! lol

But quad does 3x dmg :(

Was a good joke though :)

The bonus damage quad provides would be ADDED to each teammates BASE damage. The bonus damage should not override the base damage. So by your example every player would deal 175% of their normal damage (300% extra damage shared between 4 players = 75%).... Or 150% if the quad gives x3 dmg...

:D

No quad is a multiplier effect which is why it wouldn't make sense doing it as a %

a team with one quadrunner still does 75% more damage overall than normal since one of the players is dealing x4 and the rest x1. So if quad should be divided among the entire team it only makes sense if you take this bonus off (300 percentile points) and add it to the base, which of course also ends in the entire team dealing 75% more damage but this time every player deals 175% instead of 3 x 100% and a single of 400%.

It is true that what you are suggesting makes no sense, because, it makes no sense. :D

Edit; Or at least it seems to me, but I'm quite drunk atm, so I don't know really.

Dude it was good joke regardless of the accuracy of the math itself, we get it, no need to goofily defend it like it's ur virginity

Chill. It's all good.

Rofl

yeah but he's using the Chewbacca defense!

It is true that what you are suggesting makes no sense, because, it makes no sense. :D

It may have been hard to tell whether it was a joke simply because the idea of squad damage is so much of a joke itself.

Yep, you're using the same logic as me to get my 60% bonus. 4x quad is a 300% damage bonus to one person. Split 5 ways, it is a 60% bonus to each teammate.

Still lame though. :D

Agree!

<insert apologetic rant about the change-averse old playerbase here>

So on a five person team (which seems to be what they are going for), each player gets a 60% damage increase? No fun.

lol

last i remember Tim was promising us the possibility to turn of abbilites and similair stuff so we could still play the game the" old" way.. he changed his mind on this?

Timmy was hoping you didn't really want that.

That's what too much coke will do to your brain.

I'm pretty hopeful for the fact that we actually will want to play with the abilities and so on.

you can always jump back to QL/QW/CPMA wherever.

It's an early closed beta client focused on server stability and testing.

So in a team we all get a quad damage, but I still have to push buttons to move and shoot? What a rip-off.

We have our custom game mode that allows custom games to be tweaked up a little bit But we do believe that people will play the game as it is. You’ll be able to adjust some things, but we really discourage that.

Nah, Timmeh.
How about you give us modability, so we can fix the trash you currently work on?
Then you can add as much of your gameplay-breaking innovations for newcomers as you want, quad for everyone even enemies and spectators; while we rebuild the green robots.
I mean, the past has shown that modability is a core feature to id titles while their devs tend to release retarded ideas like teamquad; so why not give us the option to have a good Quake after the hordes of newcomers got ultied into oblivion?

PS: I still don't get it, so who is the PoV on stream when the whole team has quad?
How a player knows which enemy has to be killed in order to remove the quad when they all are pink?
Do all pinkies have to be killed once to remove their quad, if so, then why did one of the trailers show the quad getting dropped?

There are a lot of folks that say they want everyone to get Quad [Damage], everyone on your team gets Quad.

I really would like to know where you found those shitbirds.

the past has shown that modability is a core feature to id titles

That's how it's been. ID makes a good engine, mods make it viable for competitive play. I don't know who they think they're fooling. QuakeLive didn't have mods because it had most of what we've been playing with already(from mods) for years.

They couldn't even get proper brightskins into QL at first. Why does every release need to start at square one instead of building on what's already been there from mods?

Yes, but even when the base engine is crap like in the case of Q4's 60fps lock, it was modded it into an awesome competitive title.
Unfortunately since QL there is no mod support, so we are forced to endure their "innovations".

If Tim Willits/id software really cared about the playerbase of experienced quakers he'd directly post on ESR to ask for feedback. If he's serious about making it a good game it would come across in his words and we would be serious about it too.

I wouldn't ask ESR about anything Quake related. Only conservatives left here sadly.

Never mind the ones who have already left

I'm sure most people here would give real feedback rather than troll if we were given a legitimate chance. We are salty because they don't listen to us.

We need gay marriage in Quake.

rehepapp is right. we only think from a competitive perspective. we dont know what casual players want. people must feel good when playing.

as willits said, there are two modes. the casual main mode and the comp mode (duell right now). the question is, will there be a comp mode for tdm?

You know who else doesn't know what casual players want? Id software. Seriously, if they knew how to make quake appealing to 2017 casuals they would do that instead of an overwatch clone with some Quake elements sprinkled in.

there's no need to reinvent the wheel. a circle is a circle.
I can draw one with a pencil or a pen.

"My circle has butterflies in the middle."
"Oh yeah.... Why's that. What's the purpose?"
"To make it pretty"

"So you have a circle with a bunch useless shit in the middle?"

A wheel can always be improved.

tim willits, as an aging white manlet (at a whopping height of 5'-4" [1.1mm for you muslims]), lacks the testosterone reserves to do anything as manly as even imagining a scenario in which he risks the security of his job by testing his intellect and character against a sharper edge than the padded corners of his corporate womb.

id software employees took a break from esr a decade or so ago, after an id software employee's wife showed the world how far ahead of our time she was by taking an affirmatively emphatic stand against public femininity and heterosexual gender roles, role playing, and booth whore fetishism, shaming young white men in an attempt to manipulate their ideological realities to ends she didn't (and probably still doesn't) possess the intellectual responsibility or capacity to even consider to exist at the time, let alone consider at all.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1430663

here are her thoughts.

sexism is default in societys. they all doing it on exibitions, saying stupid things, using booth girls etc. thats not make it good ofc. write about it, dont get tired to show your perspective as a female. you cant change male minds in a short time.

how is what you're describing "sexism"?

Agreed. Using the fact that sex sells is just marketers doing whatever they can get away with to draw attention to their product and sell it. It's not sexism, and it is definitely not "female exploitation" since those women have more than enough choice. The only reason we don't see men being paraded around the same way is that it isn't as effective.

It's not to everyone's tastes, but you can always vote with your wallet.

Soooooo, what about the women that are happy to undresss themself for money and get on the stage of quakecon etc.?

Do those have no control whatsoever on what they're doing?

It's always like that with feminism, trying to stick together their hypocrisy: men shouldn't judge women who undress themself for money; actually using your body is "empowering"; but when they do, and they get paid for it, they're powerless victims with no agency over their actions.

How does that work out? Do you not realize you're picturing women as brainless puppets with no control over their own actions? Rationalize this.

Don't you think these "models" who dress in skimpy outfits in cheap environments (think gamer shows, country side peagents, redneck discos) wouldn't rather earn money in a sane environment in a job for people with education?

Reality is that these jobs pay more (per hour for sure) than any other low income job, and it's just rational to take a gig.

But for sure there are some who do this or prostitute themselves or whatever after a conscious decision. Not unlike men who go fighting, boxing, MMA or whatever for money.

I didn't say they are prostituting themself. But they choose the easy way. As you said, other works might not pay that much or be that easy; that's the point: they voluntarly choose to do the easy thing and sell that image of body-thing. So, if you're doing that, you can't cry of people objectifying you- you are doing that, while you could do something else-anything else.

And other people don't get to defend you, becuase that would mean they consider them more stupid than a puppy.
When a feminist doesn't give responsibility to the women selling themself, they're basically stating they don't have a brain, a coscience, a moral compass.

Personally i dislike all scantily dressed women at things like quakecon, motorsports events, of fighting events- they matter nothing with the subject, are just cheap attractions and distractions.

It's not necessarily the easy or hard way.

Compare some 18 year olds, one of them goes to Uni, taking out a loan or working half time, the other guy is taking the "easy" way and takes a minimum wage job and blasts it all on alc, weed and girls. With 25 he's married with kids, has no dime to spare, save or go on holidays. The student can choose a medium paying job, where to live, etc..

The prostitute, camgirl, whatever makes an "easy" buck, but might be alienating friends, family, lacks a cv when she needs a real job later.

It's just a decision on circumstances and upbringing/education. Long term pay off vs short term. Not a feminist, male vs. female one.

I'm not sure where you get feminist opinions on social questions like that. But if you read feminist bloggers or whatever, don't expect a scientific essay on that. As a guy you will just get riled up. Which in sequence will make you just ever so slightly more misogynist. Not that University level discourse (from MINT to sociology, it doesn't matter) is always bomb proof.

actually it's been proven that bald man possess more testosterone than men that haven't balded.

I don't think that is true.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20121210-are-bald-men-more-virile

Hamilton’s finding suggested that high levels of testosterone might lead to baldness, but in fact the level is irrelevant, providing there are some quantities of the hormone present. Castrated men, who have almost no testosterone, may retain their hair, but men with low testosterone levels can still go bald.

That’s because it is not the amount of testosterone circulating in the bloodstream that dictates baldness, it’s down to genetics. Several genes are thought to be involved, all resulting in hair follicles becoming particularly sensitive to tiny amounts of circulating testosterone.

reddit. see rocket league. the devs are involved in the community and it has been an amazing experience.

reddit. see mechwarrior online. the devs are involved in the community and have been such jerkwards that the community is split between 3 subreddits.

lol mechwarrioer, that's still a thing?

That was a while ago, but really, you don't want devs to run or have a say in any of the platforms used by the community. Not everyone's a dickwad, but the possibility of something happening is enough to cast a heavy shadown on the people who use those platforms.

The curent qc subreddit is a great example of a bunch of random fucks who decided to whiteknight for the honor of Bethesda, nothing productive is ever going to come out of a place ran by people like that.

agreed, but like i said. the rocket league sub is a great example of how it's supposed to be. the devs are actually involved in the community by answering questions, explaining this and that etc. it's pretty great.

We had esr and we still have esr for that ( at least until slasher totally ruins it by deleting posts he doesn't like )

powerups like quad/mh should be picked up as usable items that must be used within 5 seconds. when the powerup is picked up, teammatres elect themselves to participate in its benefits.

power ups shared with teammates should be distributed as powerup / number of teammates participating in powerup to each player, and its effects should last effect time / number of teammates participating in powerup.

Now this is some serious propaganda, it's like Tim got erect, he couldn't handle so much donuts.

so from pizza timers to quad orgy?

well done tim, well done. here have a big ass [-]

he is the spokes person as the studio director. there is a whole team behind him, its not all his decisions.

if there was no tim willits, id software would be long dead.

i dont see the future so dark. we have zero4, pro player input. remember, we got many things in the past from q4 and ql.

.

OpenGL > DirectX3D

nailed it

he nailed it too far in, can only see the head now.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Focus on the importance of the powerups for everybody

Again on LSD?


)

Lol, does this guy have a bet with someone involving the amount of bullshit he can pass through?

I don't know if the game is any good. The interview is beyond terrible.

It is so important that we capture that core Quake community. If we blow it with the pro players, then we’re not going to get any casual players. Today, especially with spectating – people watching other people play games – watching the world’s best Quake players play a game of Quake is really enjoyable because they can do things that are just amazing.

Except most casuals don't watch tournaments, so the claim is... odd.

So, what are you doing to capture pro players anyway?

We do feel that if we can capture those really competitive hardcore streamers, pro players, they will build a community around themselves. That’s huge for us. We do believe that can pull people in that may have been playing other first-person shooters.

For the sake of argument, let's say no former quake pro plays this game, but OW and TF2 people show up. How would a newbie tell?

The best players always still win. We have United States of America John “ZeRo4” Hill, a competitive Quake player that’s been on the scene for years. He is an employee here. He still wins.

A world class player goes against people who can't play the game at all and wins? Must be skill-based, thanks.

You’ll be able to adjust some things, but we really discourage that.(..) If you want to play Quake where everyone is exactly the same and you’re all the same character, just play Quake Live. It’s still available.

Excellent logic. How about this: if you want to play a game where everyone has special abilities, just play OverWatch. It's still available.

To be clear, I have no opinion about champions per se. I'm just puzzled by this 'reasoning'.

There are a lot of folks that say they want everyone to get Quad [Damage], everyone on your team gets Quad.

I was doing acid myself and I can tell you it's a bad thing, I suggest you stop.

Here are some legitimate suggestions for quad handling:
- there is no concept of picking quad up. every 2 minutes a randomly selected player gets one
- .. this can be made more sophisticated. the game can start measuring average speed when a player is moving and the quad is split between 2 slowest players

Other ideas for the game in general:
- after a match is over the players vote which team wins. if there is a draw in terms of votes, repeat
- new powerup: troll. your player model starts looking like willits and whenver you press mouse1 (your ability button), a random one is picked from all abilities in the game. However, with a 10% chance you get a special willits-specific ability of killing the playerbase with one shot. Each use results in a message sent to other players: "we at id love quake"

- after a match is over the players vote which team wins. if there is a draw in terms of votes, repeat

LOLed hard. DEMOCRACY for Quake ! Let's not skill inequality opress the feeble ones !

I need an Aussie and a Chilean to tell me that Squad damage™ will be great

That's great, but wheres my key

Team Quad?
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
Troll of the century or serious? my god

In the meantime:

That's a fake, there's no donuts.

I don't know man, looks legit to me.

no [+]? wtf how low esr has sunken

Wait, you're saying it can't be plussed?

I think no one found that picture funny because the Jew reference -which is a pretty far depart from the European values, contrary to what frantic adherents to the EU "standards" say.

LOL. Or maybe they don't want to end up on a JIDF list. :D

This will make the double powerups meta so exciting

What's so intrinsically bad about whole team getting quad?
Yes, it's not like in ordinary quake, but other than that?

The good thing I see is that it gives bigger opportunity for teams to influence a game. If you are losing team, it provides you with better chance to come back. Now if you feel like it's mercy limit, you stop caring. But with team quad, people might not lose their motivation.

Team in control has more opportunities to get the pu, it will make things even less fair and every other item negligible.
Also in double PU maps it means either nothing happens or one team has full 30 seconds of immortality and easy frags and items.
But maybe im wrong and it will really be a good equalizer?

"But with team quad, people might not lose their motivation."

Only any half-decent player to play TDM, at all.

I kinda feel like this paragraph is the most bothersome though:

“Last year at QuakeCon, we had our new team game mode called Sacrifice,” says Willits. “We thought it was great. We went to the convention, they were like, ‘Yeah, it’s not going to work.’ We’re like, ‘All right,’ and we basically scrapped it. A few weeks ago, we were in Poland and we were like, ‘Hey, we fixed it. It’s awesome.’ They played it, and they’re like, ‘Nope, not quite.’ Now we’re working on the fourth iteration of it. When you throw away an entire game mode based on 60 pro players, that’s definitely listening to your community.”

And it's not even because Tim believes that there are still 60 pro players around...

Is it so hard to realize that they are talking not just to Quake pro players but other games too?

other games (aka not quake) are not part of their community.

Yeah, that sounds so bizarre. They were at IEM Katowice asking players (source: https://www.plusforward.net/quake/post/21881/...d-by-ggru/) Are they basing an entire team mode on 60 CS:GO, LoL and SC2 professionals first impressions? As long as Zero4 still wins it's fine I guess...

I can't take anything Tim says seriously, it seems like he just says what he thinks people want to hear.

this can be good not only to ask quake players who live in a bubble.

Yeah it's good to ask players from different game backgrounds. Throwing away a game mode based on the first impressions of players from other types of games sounds like a bad idea though.

now im confused. team arena had custom modis, i would call them "fun modes". ql got some extend modes, even if i didnt play them they are also some kind of "fun modes". so, to ask pro players from other games about fun modes makes little sense. i thought they asked them for the serious modes ...

And bad if they end up trying to cater to everyone.

i dont get the logics of squad damaje
lets say...then why dont:

* kill all enemy team when my teammate kill 1 of them
* drop all enemy team to lava when 1 enemy falls into it
* kill all jews because they have killed jesus christ or smthng like dat

Jews it up, baby!

a man can dream...

1 week delay april fool

I swear, before now i had never even heard of anyone talking about squad damage.

After reading this I'm not suprised anymore that the beta plays like a huge pile of horseshit

this is literally what QC is

wa ha ha :P

needs some who go invisible and some who squirt a trail behind

Don't see why it's so bad. Instead of having a guy stack up and play egoistically hiding trying not to lose his stack and then suddenly jump on quad in the hopes to make some sick quadrun that he can add to his fragmovie and brag about his dg/dr and net in the end of the game, why is this not a possibility for a positive evolution ?

As long as the powerup isn't 3x dmg for everyone in the team but instead adds a little extra damage, it sounds good and fun to me.

Also this gives the possibility of completely revisiting powerups and how they work, giving new ways and possibilities with other types of powerups (haste has everyone go slightly faster, battle suit grants slightly reduced damage and selfdamage, etc...)

I like it, if it can be implemented and balanced, I like it. Nuke haters please I'm sick of people who just want quake 3 when it's already available on steam.

Water the powerups down and they become worthless.
Grant them a significant team bonus and youre set up for rape and spawn killing.

Even though I can see things like team regeneration working, I still think its much more bearable for a noob to avoid that one shining guy than have the whole enemy team buffed, as is more thrilling to be that one with the powerup everyone's afraid of.
There will always be one team with better map awareness, there's no avoiding that, especially at low public levels. Having the enemy team power-upped for the sixth time in a row will be a great trigger for frustration and bad blood ("My team sucks").

The egoistic fragmovie quad runs you mentioned are, ironically, just your own projection. I always saw quadders more like bait who hopefully push through the enemy front lines and make way for teammates to gain control of an important location.
Despite that, I believe people should have the OPTION to play selfish and be the ones in the spotlight. Simply because people should be able to play the game the way THEY want, no the way YOU want.

"Nuke haters"
Either nuke yourself, or just leave for reddit / tumblr. Those are great places for oversensitive pieces of shit like you, who are unwilling and unable to have a discussion about things.

instead of changing things, they should have been adding things. What we have build by now should be the base and new things should be introduced as options to try out and see where it will take us.

So for instance instead of changing the quad mechanics you add an alternate quad with different characteristics and the mappers decide which one to put on the map. The same should go for all new powerups, abbilities and new weapons. This way gameplay would evovle naturaly, and we would gradualy see what works and what doesnt in certain contexts(casual play, competitive play..) instead of forcing things too broadly.

It's bad because it would be incredibly boring, especially for spectators. I'm saying this as someone who rarely gets the quad.
60% bonus for each player? It just turns the game into weak sauce.

And which player do you avoid when the whole enemy team has quad?
Which player do you try to take out to end the quad run?
Can it even be ended?

I don't think it is necessarily egotism, but I do think pretty much any player will enjoy recognition for his achievements in the game.

So what? No more frag movies because they make lesser players feel bad?
I actually just found them inspirational.

Part of the attraction of Quake for me has always been that I could be superman if I got good enough. My limits were more internal than external.

Who actually spends thousands of hours getting good at anything without some sort of positive feedback from others?

Also what is worse? Hating a game or hating on the people who hate the game?
In the first case, you're just hating a game. In the second case, you're hating a person.

It robs the players of the experience of doing Quad runs, I don't think there is a single player here who dislikes the impact they have, how it feels, the adrenaline rush, the impact you make. I think everyone should be given the opportunity to experience that. I think it's a wonderful dynamic of the game that shouldn't be changed without good reason.

You are talking about positive evolution, but what the fuck is that in this case? It gives new possibilities to redesign them, but for what purpose? I don't see any purpose in your post, just that the fact that you think Quad runs are somehow egoistical.

This is no evolution. There is no solid basis for the changes, therefore it is regression.

Hey, I'm just saying that if they do decide to go this way I don't see a problem with it. I've tried imagining of different ways they could make it and it's a lot of ways and I trust them to find something both satisfying, not imba and that actually maybe adds a different layer of teamplay.

If they choose to stay with the original powerup, fine by me aswell. Difference is I'm not here hating before I even see the end result and as I said I'm growing sick of the constant negativity at every hint at a possible change. What a bad word, change. *shivers*.

Quad run was the part that always ruined it for me, people working together to get something that turns the game massively. After all the talk of having an even playing field...lol

In hindsight, I HATE Quad Damage and Regeneration. It is the main thing that goes on during team comps, waiting and colluding to get something that does 3 times more damage so you don't have to be as skilled once you have it....

I never realized quake was big on power ups, but watching actual 'comps' it becomes clear powerups(even what these champions have now....) is not far off from quad damage and regeneration :((((

Sadly. I have to give in to the abilities that are coming, because, if Quad D and Regen are acceptable(something that gives an un-equal advantage), then, its really not THAT much different.. At least everyone gets access to these 'powerups'..... Instead of fighting and grouping and hoping to get it.

Getting the quad is not random. You have to earn it with your skills. Of course it's gonna give you an advantage. Not to mention that you often sacrifice other things in order to get the powerup. By the way, you still need a lot of skill once you have it. When you have the quad, you still need to not miss your shot. Sure, you need less shots but on the other hand you have to concentrate on other things such as actively searching for your opponents and being extra careful not to run into traps.

makes me wonder how much does ID pays for having your account so they can post this kind of atrocity under someone's name.

can i submit my login too? i need some $$$

I'd say should every teammate acquire quad then should every teammate drop TEAM quad when dead, so that enemy team would be able to defend themselves, not just run.

Approved!
Holy words... Quakers should stay in q3 bubble or stop crying all the time, about changes.
I installed QL after 5years and what can i say : what a boring game... Played 5 times and unistalled. - to be clear : i have played tons of years since 2000 : qw,PK,q4,ql ,but pure Quake is not interesting anymore...

Nothing wrong with change if it is good change, and this squad damage crap ain't that.

Have you tried to turn QL off and on again?

Interesting not, as chess is not as well
Especially if you did not play it well...
for some time

"Instead of having a guy stack up and play egoistically hiding trying not to lose his stack and then suddenly jump on quad in the hopes to make some sick quadrun that he can add to his fragmovie and brag about his dg/dr and net in the end of the game,"

So that's what you think when you're playing tdm/ctf? Nice to know.

But that's not what other people feels. When i manage to snag the quad damage in a non ffa mode, i'm always sorry if i get killed early or can't manage to find many opponents; sorry because i kind of let down the team; conversely, i'm proud and hyper when i manage to get a good carnage on the enemy team, allowing mine to run wild all over the map.

When you get the quad, you get great powers and great responsibilities; you aren't playing for yourself, but for the team.

You become their *Champion* for few seconds, the one that will give them the opportunity to regain control or push even more.
It isn't much used anymore, but i always loved to read the message "FRIENDLY quad" spammed by a teammate. It's like hearing the roaring of copters in a battle and recognizing them as allied.

In addition to all that, individual quad damage is typical of arena fps, be it quake, unreal, or serious sam. It gives you more firepower without making you tougher; it speeds up the action, because offense becaomes your best defense even when you're low. It's an archetype of such games.

"Nuke haters please I'm sick of people"

Yeah, censor discussion, and thos who have different opinion than the one of bethesda shills (i bet they didn't even offer you anything specific, you're just doing this spontaneously in the hope you'll get tourney invitations and whatnot)

Dno wassup with the shill thing ? You're right I do this spontaneously and not in the hopes to get 'tourney invitations' or whatever, I think I would've already earned that right anyway. No, this was me beeing upset after seeing all the negativity in this thread.

The fact that id is ready to look at so many different aspects of the game and not leave anything out of their radar should make people rejoyce. Not spam hatred shit at them. People in here should be happy that they're trying so many different stuff. Instead, they're beeing thrown shit in the face for even considering anything different. "WAH WAH ITS A STUPID IDEA LETS NOT EVEN TRY IT ROLF YOU IDIOTS ID WHY DONT YOU COPYPASTE Q3ARENA LMAO".

Yeah, this will get us far. I love me some quadruns, but fuck me if I know wether a team powerup of some sorts could be good or not in a game where you have different champions with different stats and abilities. I'm willing to try and, if it's bad, I'm willing to report it as feedback. But I ain't going to scream in unisson with the ESR community mob because that makes you one of the cool kids or because I'd be afraid of beeing called a "bethesda shill".

Haha man, you're using some pretty strong language there, which I think you are using to totally overstate the level of reaction in this thread. People aren't as hysterical as you make them out to be.

I think people should be able to not like an idea, think it is stupid, and express as much, using whatever wit, humour, or sarcasm they feel is appropriate, without being nuked for being too "negative".

Calling it "hatred shit" or "throwing shit in the face" is so overblown.

I don't think the vast majority want a copypaste of q3a; that's just a strawman that's being used too often now.

Yeah, some ideas are literally too dumb even to be tried. id is better off targeting their resources at better things.

"The fact that id is ready to look at so many different aspects of the game and not leave anything out of their radar should make people rejoyce"

Except real quakers and their needs and the very things that made Quakes so iconic and loved / played, even after 15-20 years. So far.

unfortunately there's no - on esr to put you into negatives for saying stupid things

Yeah, we totally need Reddit-tier mob censorship and shaming here. Why not shadow banning too while we're at it?

You really get the same effect by just plussing the opposing comment anyway.

nex1's comment wasn't so bad anyway. I just didn't plus it because of the shill accusation. :D

Unfortunately we arn't all admins so we can just nuke/delete comments we don't agree with. Dem0n/slasher logics...

I'm not for nuking anyone. I'm quite the opposite actually, I said this out of boredom from reading so much negativity from the same users over and over again. Probably had a rough day aswell. But I'm certainly not in a logic of censorship.

M O U S E W H E E L
O
U
S
E
W
H
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I can't believe Noctis really did this

Thanks Obama Trump Noctis.

His been lining his pockets with donuts for years. #DrainTheSwamp #DonutIlluminati

Powerups for one person is a highlight when spectating team modes. If the whole team gets a weaker shared powerup it won't be as impressive to spectate I believe. I think it's good that they try things like this in the beta but my first reaction is that it will make the spectator experience worse.

Definitely.
Also, who wants to run around with a halfassed 25% or whatever Quad? I'm up for changes but don't touch the holy quad, enough is enough! ;)

When you throw away an entire game mode based on 60 pro players

What?

It's miracle QC is still in development...

Tim "HighOnDrugs" Willits

Tim Donuts

Thief.


: P

Wow the difference in blizzard vs id software team nowadays is astonishing. The single reason (amongst other including pros) not to have quad damage is sinply rhe fact that the mechanic would punish the quadrunner.

Which enotion do you want somwbody pucking up quad to have? What do you think is happening to the players emotion if the entire team screams at him to HIDE to ensure long quad team uptime for the rest of the team? If you pick up the quad your only motivation is to control it as long as possible and not create the next amazing (ultimate) experience you share next morning with your friends...

id software please create specific values you adhere to in any design decisions. If you have them either they are not good enough or you don't appky then properly.

Are you saying the guy who picks up the quad can be killed to end the quad effect even though the whole team shares that effect?

Yes, that would be lame, but how else would you end a "squad run"? :D

It'd probably be not even possible to end it, and you'd just have to wait it out.

People put every word Tim says under the magnifying glass. I wouldn't read much into what he / she is saying cause it is still subject to change.

Edit: IMO slash looks horrible. looks like somebodys deadbeat mom or something in its 40s. Nyx looks cancer aswell

I'm almost certain Tim Willits is a he. :D

I honestly can't tell

there going after comical and thrash satire i think. lets wait for hunter ...

but slash looks like a fking water hag from witcher 3 :( I don't know man.. :D Let's wait for hunter. Sarge? Doom?

she looks bad indeed

MAKE QUAD 4X AGAIN

Let us dismiss the notion Tom Willits doesn't know what he's doing.

If this game gets popular we might get to see the first trans gender pro quaker.

TGPQ

Tim...Gay Penis Queen?

Maybe we'll get a chance to ask him at qcon

i dont understand why they bring up dumb shit advise they're given by peons but they don't bring up sincere, solid advise that everyone's actually giving them such as improving netcode, visibility, and hitboxes of different sized champions?

you got a point.

Non-autistic overdramatic summary: they believe in their new gameplay mechanics and are currently in the process of finding a proper balance between old and new stuff. Those who want pure Q3 should play QL.

Those who want pure Q3 should play Q3.

Alone vs. bots, very exciting.

If you want to play Quake where everyone is exactly the same and you’re all the same character, just play Quake Live.




wat?

Yeah, because it is actually impossible to make a game like that that isn't QL. :D

Guess they don't believe in Q4 anymore either \o/

just like me

I use sarge for every model - mine, team, enemy

sometimes when I am bored I use tankjr as enemy model just for old times sake and not give single fuck whether model fits the hitbox or not

shit is cash, m8

To undestand what ID software is thinking, in this day and age, you have to look at what almost happened to DooM 2016:

Reddit

If you want a TL;DR version of that link - DooM 2016 almost became a Cod/Battlefield type of game. That is how desperate the studio is. What is the most worrying thing about that is - they're not even thinking about invention/inovation. They're only considering copying other games or falling back to their roots (which is very plausable, and made DooM 2016 a good SP game).

They're out of ideas. Look at Quake Champions:

- it's not called "quake 5" by any means - and that's kind of important;
- they're so blatantly copying Overwatch, even the hud looks the same (bottom left corner - even health is displayed in the same manner)
- they're also copying the "champions" concept, giving it the same feeling as overwatch - voiceover, backstories (slash + anarki, wtf is that),
- I will bet you 10 euros, that they're going for a copy of gameplay feel of Overwatch/League of Legends as well - easy to get in, easy to get out.


It's the difference in feeling, which is important.
We're hoping/dreaming for a real quake game, which is due for over 15+ years, with all the bells and whistles that we've perfected over the years with OSP, CPMA and other mods, with all lessons learned from versatility of Quake Live, minimalism, simplicity and brutality of q1, q2, q3.

But that's not what ID software is thinking.
They've got a feeling of "success to be", a thirst for it. Their objective is to make a successful game. Next game for ID software. They've never been a studio about "support". They didn't invent QuakeCon, they took over it with time. It's a really strange studio to me, it's had a bumpy ride over the years, and God knows what they're thinking.

They have their tracking and statistics, of how every game they released to the market - especially Quake Live - has done; success, bugs, exploits, features, weapon usage, map popularity, everything. They're going to make conclusions from those statistics, and you will not like them.

What kind of statistics will they "base things of off" ? It will pretty much happen the same way as it did with CoD series, which was a good series for the first 2 iterations, back in 2003 and 2005. The drill goes like this:

- make a new good looking game;
- base it off a previous title, that was most popular - it has to bare the same name with letters slightly covered in gold;
- make sure you brag about your old titles, in a sense of "daddy's back";
- "improve" it with stuff learnt from statistics and what people whine the most about, and what fashion the current demographic of gamers lives by;
- make the gameplay as noob friendly as possible - cheap thrills sell;
- make it accessable - free to play;
- have an in-game currency that makes players addicted, frustrated, happy and unhappy at the same time.
- and the most important one - lie, lie through your teeth with vigour and passion in every interview and game trailer, how the game treasures it's "oldschool" fanbase, how nothing will change on the perfected game everyone loves (only "slight" changes *cringe*).


I'm afraid, Mr. Willits has slipped up in the last interview he gave. He has revealed all the cards. With such quotes as:

" If you want to play Quake where everyone is exactly the same and you’re all the same character, just play Quake Live."

and of course:

" You’ll be able to adjust some things, but we really discourage that."

That is the core of their thinking process. That is like a big F-you for everyone who likes skill based Quake.
By saying:

"If we blow it with the pro players, then we’re not going to get any casual players."

He's emphasising "pro (oldschool) players", yet they're building a game with OverWatch in mind with basicly "Quake's" elements. Which basicly means - it's a game for casual players, if the pros join it - great. If the pros, who are almost in their 30s now, and have memories of old quake games and who have well established streams on twitch join in - even better.


The only hope for this game is to have mod-ability, and pull through with a balancing mod, with the green robot at the wheel.
ZeRo4 won't help us, because he's a prisoner there, he can't change the process and the core mentality of seniors like Mr. Tim Willits.

And the game is called "Quake Champions", not "Quake 5" for a reason. It's like a certain detour to the series, where they "try new stuff". What they do not understand, is that their old player base that has been hanging around since Quake1 days is about to drop games altogether, and there will be nobody to remember how great those games were, and especially - why. This is the last game for old Quakers, I'm afraid, we won't wait for another 10 years.

And there is no medicine for the current generation of gamers.
It's really sad that we find ourselves in a place, where probably only 3000-5000 people world wide who care about how perfect Quake dueling has become and who treasure the skill involved, and that it is over for us, because nobody is going to build a game for that amount of people.

It boggles my mind how can anyone play games like Overwatch or League of Legends, where the game does everything for you and you don't really get any real satisfaction about improving yourself in the midst of flashing New Year's fireworks all over the place, when you click Mouse1.

Our society seems to be going downhill, as far as mentality and virtues are concerned.

In theory that's true, but have you played QC?

The game just feels and plays like a Quake game. In the end that's all that matters to us.

I'm asking this because on ESR people are being so negative, but in the QC community Discord (where people that actually play hang out) the opinion is the complete opposite.

I have not played it yet, but I've chatted with someone, who has.

You're right, it is a quake game, and I hope it becomes even more so, with time.

I just hope the developers are flexible, and realise that dumbing down of the game:
- pizza timers on items (what the...);
- quad damage for the whole team;
- abilities (like slash's trail);
- all green armors (instead of what we used to have);
- bad visibility of player models;
- and probably no ability to water down graphics (looking at you picmip);
is not the way to go.

I'm actually not against 2 types of Quake: Champions, built into one: PUB version (equivalent of clan arena with all the ability nonsense which might be fun for a pub) and the pro-version(with pre-built ruleset which reflects QuakeLive's or whichever version is mixed in from the past, supervised by ZeRo4).

But from Willit's speech, I'm reliving year 2008-2009, when I saw CoD: Modern Warfare 2 destroy the series, how "fourzerotwo", the community mannager of the Infinity Ward "bulls**tted" the whole community, carefully stepping around on his toes, until the community realised what was happening.

This looks exactly the same to me.

There's also this game, called "War Thunder", which primarily was a relaxing WW2 plane game. I enjoyed it for a bit. It had this interesting matchmaking system. There were 3 versions, inside the game: Arcade battles (imagine it as "planes for noobs"), Realistic Battles (flight simulation is a little harder, you could rip-off wings at speed in this one), Simulated battles (hardest mode, basicly joystick-only). These names speak for themselves.

And it made the game into an interesting phenomena for me. Arcade battles had the majority of players, which was the really easy mode.
However, Realistic battles were still played by, like 20-30% percent of Arcade players (once in a while), because those battles gave more rewards, and made you think, strategise and put in more effort. And nobody dissed anyone, youtubers would record gameplay of both modes, and everybody was happy.

That is the only model I envisage for Quake Champions. There is no "Cypher vs Evil" or "Tox vs Rapha" QuakeCon finals, with abilities enabled, pizza timers and other BS they will come up with, to dumb down the game.

They've picked a model that has no been thought out, and they're trying to invent the bycicle where it's not needed.

There's a thing I'd like to ask - how do you imagine a perfect Quake Champions ?

- pizza timers on items (what the...);
- quad damage for the whole team;
- abilities (like slash's trail);
- all green armors (instead of what we used to have);
- bad visibility of player models;
- and probably no ability to water down graphics (looking at you picmip);
is not the way to go.

why.

- pizza timers on items (what the...);
you still need to time if you want to have an advantage. but the timers help noobs and viewers to understand the basics. if you can't win against noobs because of timers, YOU are the one who needs to step up.

- quad damage for the whole team;
what are you talking about?

- abilities (like slash's trail);
can you explain why abilities are bad? looks like you just dont "like" abilities and you have no logical reason to support your opinion.

- all green armors (instead of what we used to have);
again, can you explain why you need to have different types of armors?

- bad visibility of player models;
then learn to hit shots against those player models. same goes for r_picmic. again YOU are the one who needs to step up. if you cannot hit anything that is not green AND if you don't want to improve your skills, you can keep playing quake live.

- and probably no ability to water down graphics (looking at you picmip);
we don't need to water down graphics. i already mentioned about this.

conclusion:
just keep playing quake live. if you need more ql players, advertise the game by yourself.

Pizza timers (as implemented) are bad because they remove the information gathering part of the game---y'know, actually observing the pickup and making sure you are there to do so. It has nothing to do with whether you can still beat noobs; it has to do with making the game lesser in terms of strategy and, for a lot of people, lesser in terms of enjoyment. Step up what exactly? Your aim? Taking elements like this out of the game just makes it dumber. (I have no problem with timers doing the arithmetic and memory parts of timing.)

"what are you talking about?"
Did you read OP's post?

There are a lot of folks that say they want everyone to get Quad [Damage], everyone on your team gets Quad. Then there are some people that are, like, ‘No, we’re okay with the slight buff that we have now.’ And there are some people that are like, ‘No, it’s got to be a single person.’ That is definitely something that we are going to be looking at when we move into closed beta. It could possibly change.

People's reasons for disliking abilities have been stated so many times on this site.
Basically, they go against all previous Quake games' way of having all players equal, and this is very likely to create balancing issues and never-ending balance patches.

There's nothing inherently wrong with all green armours, but it is a change from the standard used in all other Quake games, and it just seems like an arbitrary change since there doesn't seem to be any benefit from doing this whatsoever. What is the purpose of randomly throwing an element of Quake lore out the window? Colour is one of the most easily recognizable properties of a thing, much moreso than shape or any particular detail differentiating the appearance of these armours. If id are catering to the people not understanding the colour coding (which the changes won't help anyway), they really must be targeting their game at the most retarded people on the planet.

When it comes to model visibility, there is no "stepping up" your visual acuity. You've got what you've got, and Quake has never really been a game that rewards people for hiding, camouflaging themselves, or for having the ability to discern camouflaged objects better than others. That's why all the competition variants of the games that are actually used have brightskins.

>pizza timer
ya i know what you mean.
but i think its not like timers are worse than no timer. they are just different.
without timers, often people need to focus on staying alive and cant even position to hear the item pickup sounds.
so timers will help players in out of control to come back more quickly. but if you did not hear the pickup sound, youj still dont know the exact time.
and idk why you can hate this idea already.

>green armors
i think its not a random decision.
to remove red armors they want mega and quad to be the most important items.
to reduce the number of the most important items, they are trying to make this game a bit more viewer(or noob) friendly.
and this is important when you think about the fact they want to make this game an esport.
and you are right. look at the twith chat. they are absolutely retarded. and we need them to watch the stream or play the game to make this game big.
but at the same time, you dont have to hate the changes because i think it is not as bad as you think.
you can hate after playing good amount of the time. but it is too early. most of the time people just get used to it.

>enemymodel and picmip
you cant hide in QC.
as you can see in zero4's video, there are big red triangle indicators that tell you where opponents are.
so i think it is harder to hide in qc than in ql.
my concern about enemymodels is, some skins will have small advantages over other skins.
to avoid this issue they should introduce enemymodel outline or something similar so they can keep selling the skins.
I am pretty sure brightskin is not their option because they want to do something with skins like overwatch or csgo does.

sry i have to go to bed now

That's exactly the point. You shouldn't be able to hide in a corner somewhere and then come out knowing item times. It's really not that hard to observe an item time, but the point is you need to take some risk to do it. At least they're not drawing them on the HUD.

It's not really a case of hating it "already". These sorts of timers have been tried before. I also think "hate" is too strong a word. It's just not my preference.

QC has light armour and heavy armour, which to my mind is analogous to yellow and red, which are really the most common armours anyway. I don't actually have stats on these armours, but it seems they removed the green equivalent armour. q3 already dumbed down armours. are you telling me that wasn't dumb enough? :D

Apart from that, the difference is the appearance, which seems random to me and doesn't help spectators or players.
I think it is actually harder for a spectator to differentiate the armours.

Those red triangle "doritos" are awful. :D
Aiming for doritos sucks. I think I'd like to try the outline method with configurable colour.
Yep, brightskins won't happen because of champion customizations.

>timer
maybe you should not but maybe you should.
I have had a game like getting 1 flag then +back for whole 9 min. i won that game. it is not gonna happen in pro matches but nobody wants to watch that. so +forward > +back for most viewers.
but even then, timers will not help your +forward that much. just a little bit at best.

>armor
removing( or changing) things is not always a bad thing.
if 3 kinds of armors are superior than 2 kinds of armors, 100 kinds of armors add insane depth to the game. but its not like that.
you just got used to it so you feel comfortable.
but after getting used to the new armors, you will be comfortable.
i believe there were many people that disagreed when quake2 introduced railgun. but we play quake live without disabling railgun. why? we just got used to it. removing 1 type of the armor should not be a big thing (hopefully). the game should be still pretty competitive.

>doritos
ya i prefer the outline too.
but im still ok with doritos if everyone has the same environment.
i will just get used to it.
re-learning (or exploring) things is fun isnt it?

>heros
it is not against previous quake games' way of having all players equal.
all players have the ability to choose a hero. they can even switch during the matches.
even if id cant perfectly balance the heros, it is still competitive.
because you just need to use the best heros.
so far quake has quad, mega, weapons, or the key on Elder, etc.
heros are not that different from those if you really think about it.
random spawn location is way worse than heros because it is random.
but nobody complains about it. why?
again, you just got used to it.
i think now you kinda understand my point =)

You're absolutely not worried about the heroes and their abilities, are you "kukkii" ?

Let me give you an example.

* Rapha vs Cypher.
* 2018 Quakecon finals.
* Best of 5 maps - and now it's the final map.
* Rapha has 2 map wins, Cypher has 2 map wins.
* It's a 10 minute game, last map, and only 1 minute left on the clock.
* Score is 5 frags to 4, Rapha having 5.
* After a long, gruelling battle, Cypher has managed to win back control , and now has a stack of armour and health, after 6 minutes of being out-of-map-control.
* Cypher is fired up, he's flying through the map. Now he has only 30 seconds left.
* Sees Rapha, who is strafing away as fast as he can, through narrow corridors.
* Cypher is on his tail, he's gaining, now 15 seconds left. He's about to catch up, Rapha is quite low on HP/armour, a good LG engagement would do it.
* Cypher catches up and is about to fry Rapha - but what is that - Cypher is dead. What was that ?
* OHHH, it was only Slash's plasma ability. He just left a trail and exploaded Cypher with a single click of a button. Better luck next time, Cypher. Lul.

Can you imagine, how edgy and game breaking half of the Champion abilities are, at the point where match score is decided, at those clutch moments the whole crowd is cheering for the guy, the underdog in that map, who's chasing, trying to get back in the lead ?

These abilities. They're awesome for pub play. I agree they're fun. Just like killstreaks in CoD.
BUT THERE IS NO PLACE for such stuff in a competitive match, and you know it. It has been proven by many communities of many games, and ID software should know that.

It boggles my mind.

haha, the point you are trying to make doesn't come across very well when you describe an amazing Quakecon final, 2 maps each and a 6-4 vicotry to Rapha on final map. Sounds like a beast final, even with champions. ;)

I agree, that would be an awesome final. There have been finals like that, basicly QuakeCon's 2016, "Rapha vs Evil", was like that.

Two players doing their best, awesome, hugh ? Yet, that best can be nullified and player's whole morale broken by a single button of an ability.

The point I'm making comes across very well, when you realise how awesome that final would be, if such abilities would not exist, and Rapha could not repulse a fired up player who is putting on a show, by a single push of a button in a corridor.

lol I agree, if that happens, Rapha needs to break the trophy on the stage to save the twitch chat.
But the real answer is, Cypher needs to play NYX in that situation.
So he has more chances to catch rapha even earlier, or he can chase rapha without taking dmg from the plasma thing.
They haven't introduced the details about qc duel so I'm not sure about how heros work in duel yet.
But imo most of the time they should use NYX or slash because of their fast movement and abilities to survive or chase.

Actually NYX is the best, or her ult needs to be fixed.
She can also use her ult and steal mega if she knows the spawn time. And there is no way to counter this if she times it perfectly. You have to let her have the item, or you get telegraphed if you stand on it. So the only thing you can do is just winning the fight after she gets the mega (she can't use her ult at least). idk how mega works in qc duel though. If mega gives different values of health for each heros, they can still balance.

I'd say knowing item times without recon would actually make it easier to +back.

I don't think the motivation for removing one of the armour types was to add depth to the game. Putting more than three armours doesn't work well because if they work like traditional armour, there wouldn't be much differentiating them.

In Quake in general, an armour is pretty much defined only by how much AP it gives you when you pick it up, the max AP you can get with that type, conditions of when you're allowed to pick it up, and its absorption factor. With those variables, you can't really have more than three. Going from two to three, you can still have big differences while maintaining this simple system, and the mapper can choose which of these he wants in his map, so it is still possible to have only two types on a given map.

Anyway, I'm not too concerned about the fact there are only two armour types now; q3 only had two armour types. This thread started with talk about how they were all GREEN. :D

Maybe we can have a dorito/outline configuration option where you can have one, both, or none and be able to set the colour. :D

All players have equal options, but after they have made a choice, they are not equal unless they chose the same champion, and that's the equalness I'm talking about, which is obviously different in previous Quakes and introduces the balancing problem. I get the suspicion that being able to change champion mid-game is either gonna work really well or fail really badly. :D

It's true we can all choose the same champion, but since they invested in the champions aspect instead of something else, one can expect the game to be diminshed if the champions aspect becomes irrelevant, especially since to accommodate it, we have to put up with speed caps and the like. But that won't happen; they'll just keep changing the game under us with balance patches.

Abilities are different to items because you don't choose items; you have to earn them by fighting over them. :D
It would be more similar if your ability was charged through damage done or something like that.

You're never gonna get rid of randomness. It should just be minimized without sacrificing gameplay. Even chess has randomness (who makes the first move), and the best you can do is average it out over time, multiple games, different maps, etc.

I think people have complained about spawn systems endlessly. :D
That's why they've been changed.

I actually think having the champion who appeals to me most at a built-in disadvantage to my opponent's champion is worse than a small amount of randomness. Duel is going to be very interesting. :D

>timer
does it? can you give me a quick example of this?

>armor
you are right. if there are 3, mappers can choose. I think that is better than having only 2.
I guess id wanted to make things easier to understand.
armors = green
health = blue

>doritos
yeah if they let us choose outline color that is cool. if not i will just try to get used to it lol

>hero
I think heros will work really well in team mods like tdm or the new thing called sacrifice.
since their focus is to make this game a big esport, my guess is they will put more efforts on the team mod than duel.
true, maybe there will be many balance patches.
to avoid all players to use 1 hero, maybe they will need to introduce 1 hero limit in the future.
i got used to those things in overwatch so I can live with them.
but yes i can see some people hate these kind of unstable things.
but the important thing is, (or this can be id's excuse) everyone plays the same patch so the game is still competitive even if they keep changing the balance.
just like q1 q2 q3 q4 ql were competitive. they introduced new weapons, new movements, new items etc. but all of them were still good enough.
idk how new duel's gonna work though. i just hope id will find something good.

now i need 5 min break lol
ill be back soon.

The pizza timer will probably make it easier to +back because you won't have to expose yourself to find out the time of an item. Without the timer (as implemented), you need to observe the pickup. You cannot hide and know all item times. Sure, you still have to pick up items, but you can also pick up the other one that your opponent isn't going for because you know all the item times.

Anyway, it is the math and memory that are the annoying parts of item timing; the recon part should be part of the fun. Timers can be made to do the math and memory part while keeping the recon part. Keep in mind I think timing information should be shared among the team.

As it stands, timers aren't on the HUD, so pros will still be doing math (or lookups) and memorizing times, for advantage and so they can plot their course throughout the map, make use of timing clashes, etc.

You might be right about the blue health, green armour thing. Little did I know, all these years I've been a genius for comprehending the colour in Quake. :D

I don't know much about Sacrifice other than that it is some kind of mix of domination and TDM and that it has been rejected by pros who've played it multiple times.

The problem with forcing only one instance of each hero on a team is that it will usually make some guy (probably the one considered the lesser player) get lumped with a hero he doesn't want to use. Y'know, EgoLord5000 will take the best champ, and you get the dregs. :D

I also hope that team composition and counter picking don't become serious aspects of this game, because I hate that. It shifts the focus to "metagaming" rather than what happens during the match.

I don't mind changes, but I don't want the game balance patched as often as Steam. :D

i think hero abilities will be the big aspect if the items like quad or mega are the big part of the game
check my Comment #227.
the best NYX will always get the quad and it cannot be countered.
if they dont implement 1 hero limit, i can see the total 10 NYX players( 5 on each team) use their active abilities almost at the same time and stand on the quad. 9 telefrags and the team with the guy who presses the ult key later wins the fight lol

i will be back soon

That's pretty funny. :D

If Nyx is so OP, then Nyx needs to be nerfed, or everyone else needs to be buffed. It's as simple as that.

A lot of this may actually be fixed by requiring players to EARN their ability by doing damage or whatever rather than just a cooldown.

Please no restrictions on champion selection. I can see myself being forced to use that slow-ass clutch.

yeah probably they will need to remove telefrag from NYX's ult. that would be the easiest solution.

i think clutch players need the decent aim because they are slow. if their mouse aim skill is shitty, they cant win the fights.

Yeah, the telefrag is overkill, but they will need something to happen when she rematerializes. Telefrag was always just the easiest way to handle that in code; that's probably why telefrag even exists at all. Another happy accident. :D

If you want to push the person currently occupying the spot out of the way, you have to handle the scenario where there is nowhere to push them to.

Her whole ability is a can of worms tbh.

With Clutch, the problem is a big hitbox and slow movement means everyone is getting high accuracies on you.

You might start with more hp and ap, but once that has been worn away, you're as weak as any other character but slower and easier to hit---and it will take you more armour and health pickups to get back to your initial state.

>clutch
yes thats why the decent aim is required for clutch or big heros.
its hard to hit well against small and fast heros.
But if your mouse aim skill is good enough to do that, then you will win every fights because your hp and armor are higher than your opponents. and you hit the same or higher ammount of damage with your insane accuracy.

>nyx
ya, i think she should not be able to position on the other players. if her ult is still too strong maybe they can do something like touching enemy players force nyx to return from invis state.

Sure, decent aim will help you, but the guy with the same aim skill as you will still rape you. You might get 40% LG on Anarki, but he'll be getting 65% on you as Clutch. :D

Yeah, with Nyx, I think at least she should still bump into other players when she is using her ability, to remove the whole possibility of her rematerializing inside someone.

to avoid all players to use 1 hero, maybe they will need to introduce 1 hero limit in the future.

That would go against the whole "personal preference" thing they got going on so I very much doubt it.

@CaptainTauchou

You've explained everything so clearly, I feel myself being retarded for not being able express it that way lol.

"Basically, they go against all previous Quake games' way of having all players equal, and this is very likely to create balancing issues and never-ending balance patches."

That is very true.

It seems to me, that they're trying to dumb down the game and put in such a huge vast amount of help for the new players, who have not touched Quake series previously, it is going to brake the game.

#1 - discovering game mechanincs, learning how they work and educating yourself in that is a joy in itself. Just look at "Zelda: Breath of the Wild" - most e-magazines and review sites gave it 10/10, and their argument behind that was mostly to with learning by intuition, which gives you freedom and ability to express yourself that way.

#2 - make a tutorial. Just make a fleshed out, enjoyable tutorial that takes a new player by hand and welcomes him to the world of quake. Why do they need to oversaturate the game with stuff like pizza timers (and I don't think these will be the end of it) and "quad is in 15 seconds" announcer voice. Why ? It boggles my mind.
For the sole purpose of teaching new people a how to play the game, they're installing certain mechanics into the game that effect the game for it's life span (as a design choice).
What will happen when all those new players eventually learn all those mechanics ? The game will look overcrowded with flashy pizza timers and other tutorial-esque features that are actually in the way of YOU enjoying your game, in many many ways, especially - visual way. Watching that gameplay from ZeRo4, there are so many unsatisfactory things, that are in your face, it reminds me of World of Warcraft, where all you do is watch numbers and rechargers on your screen, clustering everywhere.

That is not Quake. Quake is flying through the air, with your eyes locked on target, targeting your opponents feet with rockets in order to get him airborne and finish him there with LG or RG, or a nice mid-air rocket. All this other bullsh*t that is being added to the game to help newbs for the first month, while they learn the game detracts from organity of the game.

#3 - What was wrong with Red armor / Yellow armor ? WHAT WAS SO WRONG with it, they needed to remove such an iconic element of Quake ? The answer is simple - to "less" confuse new players, to make the game more accessible to them. Can you imagine what kind of vegetable audience such decisions are targeting ? How worrying is that ? :D

Yeah, I do enjoy learning the mechanics of a game if it is a game I feel is worthy of the investment. I think others are like that too, so maybe id software feels their game won't be worthy of investment or is just targeting it at casual players who will never want to spend much time learning anything.

I'm guessing I can live with pizza timers and quad announcements though.

The thing is we have games like DOTA that require heaps of learning, and I'd say that learning is actually more boring than what you have to learn in Quake. For example, learning to rocket jump or strafe jump seems much more fun to me than learning a build order for a hero. But DOTA is very popular, so I don't think there is a shortage of people who want to invest time in learning a game.

There can't be more than a dozen key elements to Quake that a noob needs to learn, and most of those are quite enjoyable. I find it hard to believe a well constructed tutorial system couldn't teach those things to a new player in an enjoyable way.

Yeah, there is way too much visual clutter. I'm hoping we can turn some of that off.

I personally think the red-yellow-green armour system, or just red-yellow even, was better. The visual style of QC has become something of a hodgepodge. Didn't they say they wanted to go back more to the Quake 1 Lovecraftian feel? But the weapons and armour are kinda high-techy.

I do hope they stop with dumbing down at some point.

And all that dumbing down would not be needed, if the game had a perfected matchmaking system - meaning you fight your own skill-mirror-imaged players. That would fix any kind of 0-50 scoreline for newcomers, and they could actually feel themselves improving, when ELO brings them up a notch. That would fix so many things, we would not need a pizza timer for every single skill in-game you have to have. People would just learn timers and other things themselves, because that would be the only way to separate themselves from competition, whilst climbing up.

And another thing, nobody is talking about. Armour/Health system + weapon damage system. Nobody is talking about that, and you can be sure it will be re-balanced, developers surely have some sort of model in mind at the very moment, which is "to achieve something". It will be different to previous quakes.

Me and others, who "complain" a lot, probably forget to mention the good stuff. I love the game's new weapon models, that rocket launcher looks beyond sick. Most people hate the railgun, but I think it's bonkers looks will be loved, with time. Nailgun and LG look kind of stupid, IMHO, but then again - they'll probably have a store, where you can somehow buy different models for those weapons. Hope so.

I just keep wondering about a few things:
- is the sound que-ing and overall design allow for competitiveness (footsteps clear, pick-ups and respawns clear-enough)
- weapon / health balance;
- and will the competitive guys pick it up, and will ID work with us, if the game doesn't meet competitive requirements.

I think the dumbing down is based on the idea that even if players are up against equally skilled opponents, they won't enjoy the game if it has certain elements delaying their gratification.

What was enjoyable for the noob in 1999 isn't enjoyable for today's noobs, it seems---because they have been exposed to a different gaming experience in their life time, and there are a lot more competing games they can flee to if they don't get their fix within 5 minutes of installing. :D

Somehow, other high-skill-ceiling games survive or thrive despite having plenty of annoying things you have to learn.

Yeah, I'm sure there will be lots of rebalancing. I'm hoping they don't mess with the weapons too frequently though.

There are good things I've seen in the game, but there's never a lot to be said about the good things in life. I like roses; you like roses. That's good. :D

Recently I discovered Ranger's and Visor's voice acting isn't annoying like Anarki's and Slash's. I generally like the appearance of the player models. The way you can choose a different look is kinda neat, and I see that you can get the Quake 1 rocket launcher or Quake 2 railgun model.

I don't know what they did in that zero4 raw gameplay footage, but the sound is better in other videos than in that video. Generally, I don't like the weak sound of the weapons, especially the railgun.

In theory that's true, but have you played QC?

I have, uninstalled after 3 hours. I wanted to give it a chance. I was excited at the first announcement but as more information became available the more skeptical I became. Actually playing it disappointed me greatly. Having heroes was frustrating enough but visually the game is a nightmare for me. The colored arrow indicators are useless, brightskins are needed. I was fortunate enough to play it on fair low ping(30ms) and couldn't believe how laggy the game was(particularly rockets). High or low graphics didn't seem to make a difference with how visually noisy the maps were, the game itself was very difficult to pay attention to. It reminded me of Doom2016 in how useless armor was, not to mention shards dropped on player death.

I'll play QL as long as I can keep finding people to duel with. After that, I'll just play doom2 wads and jrpg's.

"If we blow it with the pro players, then we’re not going to get any casual players."

He's emphasising "pro (oldschool) players", yet they're building a game with OverWatch in mind with basicly "Quake's" elements. Which basicly means - it's a game for casual players, if the pros join it - great. If the pros, who are almost in their 30s now, and have memories of old quake games and who have well established streams on twitch join in - even better.

I don't think that's it. I think he's mostly talking about people with influence over others (actual pro players, streamers and the like), not just "oldschool" player. Notice how he's taking advice from pro players from other games? They wouldn't fit your interpretation of what he says. But if those players pick up Quake Champions, they will influence the community they built around themselves. If rapha/cypher/cooller/etc. pick up the game, they will have a big influence over us. They don't need to aim for mere "oldschool" - but ultimately unknown - players; the Esr crowd. What they should aim for is the crowd and those that can influence it. That's if they don't wanna lose their investment, at least. That doesn't mean the end product will be good or bad for us. That remains to be seen. It will be different though.

(By the way, here's a small bit of trivia for you since you seem to think everything boils down to Overwatch, even the name "Champions". Look for the "creation date" for quakechampions.com on whois.net and compare that to when Overwatch was first announced.)

I agree to that, he's looking for publicity and channels to make the game popular, just like you say. However it may be, I get the feeling that they're aiming for the crowd that other games have established, instead of nurturing the one they've had over years + creating their own. That is the worrying bit.

"(By the way, here's a small bit of trivia for you since you seem to think everything boils down to Overwatch, even the name "Champions". Look for the "creation date" for quakechampions.com on whois.net and compare that to when Overwatch was first announced.)"

That may be true, but does it really change things ?
Just look how similar Quake Champion's concept that they're forming is to OverWatch. Compare the Hud, the way they present Characters and other stuff.

It may have been that the game was first modelled after League of Legends (or was supposed to have some flavour), but having seen OverWatch's success, it seems the game is going that way.

In all reality, when I first heard/saw OverWatch, I thought to myself - well now, that's a cartoonish quake ripoff for nubies. And it is. So successful, that the father of arena games is trying to be like the son.

You really need to play QC first before making those assumptions. The game does play like a Quake game. In the screenshots QC seems to have elements from Overwatch, but play it and you'll see the actual gameplay is very far from it.

And again, on the Discord channel there's hundreds of pros and notorious world class Quake players from all time (even Makaveli). You know, the actual hardcore Quake players. With that said, there I have not seen a single person be negative about QC. People that actually have tried the game and that know how to play it (rather than saying they do) do have a positive impression about it, while the bitter ones are people on ESR that have not played the game and/or that suck at Quake.

I understand what you're saying.

Yesterday, one youtuber slipped, and accidentally released ~12 minutes of raw Quake Champions gameplay, which I downloaded before it was taken down.

The game looks fun, for a pub. But the same thing is present, just like in official ZeRo4's gameplay. It's almost impossible to distinguish player models from the environment. Especially when you're trying to follow them with your aim, with a lightning gun. Lightning gun has some sort of splash effect + dark environments + dark models.

How do you suppose that goes down in an official duel match ?

You do realize its a completely unpolished beta right? All the shit people are crying about is hilarious....

Thank you anon. $0.50 has been added to your Bethesda marketing account.

Yes, I do understand that.

We're all grown up people here. We know all the Newtons laws, and we know that every action leads to reaction.

We're in our 30s now, and we have been through countless games, marketing campaigns and all kinds of shennanigans of lack-logic decisions from developers, who get tunnel-visioned in their game making process SO BAD, they completely miss the point.

However, not all developers are like that, and sometimes we judge them too fast, missing to see the depth of their decisions.


To reply to you directly - yes, it's an unfinished Beta. But beta's don't change much. Alpha's - do, a lot, look at UT's new iteration. Beta's - is mostly technical testing and altering a small number here and there - the core and idea of it does not change.

That's not so surprising since Discord is the place for trendoids. :P

I'd never actually expect a pro to say anything bad about any game even if they're thinking it.

That said, you're right that we should play the game first even if speculation can be fun. :D

But I can't imagine how "squad damage" could be anything but retarded, which seems to be what a lot of people in this thread are worried about.

WOW all of this TL;DR

Sorry buddy, I'm all emotional over this QC broad :x

I'm sorry, is that for real? :>

itt: salty morons who didn't get a beta key. lulz.

So many of you want to have COPY of Q3 or Quake Live. For fuk sake go stick wtih Q3A and QL. Leave Quake champs alone, its a new game, its not 2000 anymore its 2017. Its like by some players "FUK new maps i aint gonna play that, i will stick to my last breath with bloodrun and aerowalk.." playing map for 15 years and dont want to try new map? ..and now you want to have copy of something quake already has to offer. Have you ever think about - if you were new player, if bethesda make 90% similar to previous game, would you like to play and learn the game while rest of gamers already own and rape you each time see you on the map? I think you would have quitted the game in very first hour. So this shit has to end, they need to make new game, noob friendly and take away advantage of old quake players. As a closed beta tester I must say they are on great way of doing so.

This might make a lot of sense to you people in closed beta who can play the game. Imagine how it sounds to people who aren't in there and don't know more about the game than what they've seen from trailers.

If you're going to drop a bomb like "we might remove powerups as you know them and make them teamwide" you better have some good reasoning for it if you want people who have played Quake for 20 years to accept it straight away. What kind of reaction do you honestly expect when they release the information in the way they did without any explanation?

Basically I think it was very poorly handled by iD, they shouldn't have said anything to people outside closed beta until they were sure they wanted to change powerups and had a really good explanation for it. Their communication about the game could improve a lot.

i dont see why u feel entitled to an explanation at all though

if id wanted a profitable game they would cater to the opposite of what people here want because esr's opinions on games are the polar opposite of every example of a successful game in the past 15+ years


for this game to be a success it will have to be an entirely different direction. i dont think quads have anything to do with that direction personally fwiw

the beta as is feels like a quake game hashed out with some low effort class based stuff in order to attract casuals. in my opinion it's not a recipe for success. expect moderate popularity fueled by zenimax pouring money into tournaments for a couple years followed by slow death :--(

people not playing quake already dont care about whether a game is new or not they care about matchmaking and cosmetics and stream memes

"take away advantage of old quake players"

The only way they could do that is by making the game barely reward essentials like aim, movement, dodging, and positioning---in other words, by making it nothing like Quake or any other FPS game requiring a modicum of skill.

There shouldn't be any reason to do that to make the game noob friendly since we have matchmaking now.

Adding old maps like Campgrounds definitely doesn't help, I think that was a really bad idea tbh.

Why?

If you want to remove advantage for old players then having old maps is a bad idea.

Isn't it what matchmaking is for?
Is 17 people playing quake their whole life even relevant in the sea of new players?

It actually plays really well. There's a pretty nice dynamic especially the way things are spaced out. Yeah the Hero skills are broken and the RL is so op it's unreal, it feels good. It feels like Quake but it adds a really interesting dynamic to the whole TDM spiel.

So far what they've done is really good. It's the aspect of balance and intergration, that's gonna be a massive task.

yeah, I thought Campgrounds has been reworked in a lot of interesting ways. Seems to be a serious attempt to change the bridge / RL area as being the most desirable area to hold.

The little platform by rail to hop to which let's you overlay quad damage and then across the map to the ledge by MH?

TDM is hands down completely broken in QC. Right now.

so how do you explain the success from counterstrike?

they didnt change much from beta 0.5(?) to cs:go
Same maps same weapons and so on. There are just tiny changes but the whole game concept stayed and guess what. Its still successful (I cant understand it myself)

Thats an obvious and fair point.

The only answer I can think of, is - support + tournaments + money.

They copied a huge success and ended up with another huge success. That doesn't appear that surprising to me.

My hope for this game is getting less and less, Diabotical it is...

diabotical will be another boring clone, with a playerbase of 50ppl.
just like reflex.

Oh don't get me wrong im fully expecting everything to be shit and just give up altogether sooner or later

the amount of people that gave money before it was made says otherwise

"The best players always still win."

That is one of the most stupid arguments when it comes to game design. Yes, best players always still win, but do they have fun when it comes to executing the winning gameplay? Rapha is the best player and still always wins but do you think it's actually fun for most to play that patient slow gameplay he has to put out to counter evil?

Rapha stated that evil ruined quake for him, am i right in saying that?

Why is that? I could see it the other way around

It was Cypher who was bitching about how Evil plays, not Rapha.

True, that's the one thing that tilted him and made him rage the way he did.

Don't forget his luck. I bet hes bored of getting lucky

The better you get the luckier you get.

Also, everyone crying about not getting a key.

"I'm a loyal quake player since q1." "I've bought every quake since xxxx"

All of those bullshit comments.

If you simply just asked Syncerror, he'd hook you up. I did and he sorted it in 5 minutes, as they had to manually generate the keys to your username and email address used on your Bethesda launcher.

The fact they did it manually is very disconcerting, like anything can be automated if you know programming and macros lol.

Yeah it's really easy to do, but what about the people that've created multiple email addresses to get multiple keys so that they can then sell them on via third parties?

You can't automate legitimacy when it comes to sending out emails automatically.

Also let's say for interest sake, they have now acquired 200 000 email addresses.
From a closed beta point of view, any industrial or corporate email autoresponder service to send out masses of emails will cost a metric fuck ton of $$$

I have an email list of just over 10k users, over time they'll dwindle into non-responsiveness as well, that costs me about $150 a month, so again a corporate style marketing platform will cost a fuckton.

everyone thought champions are just for pubs FFA and so on to keep on hope. Now the truth... lolol

next quake game will have vehicles! just because vehicles are cool atm and ql forums was full of requests for vvehicles.

ET:QW wasn't too bad.

Still hoping for remake.

Vehicules! Great idea! Let's do it* :D

"everyone thought champions are just for pubs FFA"

this must be a joke. Do you really think they were going to develop and market a whole new game and have the competitive scene be basically QL with better graphics ? srsly...

Registered: 30 Mar 2017

this explains your opinion.... just go back to berthesda forums and suck Willits cock.

Abilities are a joke. A very bad one though.

Willits said QC will satisfy new players and hardcorefans. But new players wont play tournaments and hardcore players arent satisfied with a few custom servers. 95% of quake hardcore players just want q3 (not ql) with new graphics!

Too bad that 95% isn't enough to justify spending the money on a game only for them.

ye thats the opinion from berthesda/ID

Reflex & Diabotical are the games made for us but they wont be as popular as QC just because they dont have quake in their names. Both games are more quake gameplay than QC.

Lets be honest: QC wont have any chance if they havent used quake in its name! Nobody would care about it. Just another stupid shooter.

I kick your ass in duel bo5 (true skillfull quake) any day of the year, and have been playing quake since 1996, thx

what quake part is your true skillfull quake? I dont have all quake games installed on my system atm but it will just need approx 15min and im ready to fight :)

meanwhile in quakelive

omg hahah thats cool if possible, how :D

ins back?

Yeah you're right. Rapha is a no-skill noob who lucked his way to being the most accomplished quake player of all time. I agree.

*cringe*

Hi cooller via USA proxy.

new clutch trailer is out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq7Dy1kkuLA

He is much less annoying than Anarki and Slash. :D
I'm not sure why they released those two twerps first.

I saw some closed beta footage that probably shouldn't have been put on youtube, and I liked Ranger's and Visor's voices too.

prob to get the teenage/overwatch crowd hyped initially.

Do junkies even appeal to kids?

Maybe they think they do.

Or maybe it is just because those two are "BFFs" and are both fast characters to appeal to the Quaker's need for speed.

junkies lol...I haven't actually LISTENED to ANY of the voices yet except ranger(the one ive used)

Maybe they do sound like grunge singing hopped up hippies, Id rather not hear it if they do lol.

Well, they are junkies. Read their profiles on the official site.

Anarki:
"Cybernetically Enhanced Junkie"

Slash:
"When the clozapine didn’t help, she turned to heroin. In the shooting gallery she met Anarki. He saw things, too."

If anyone is interested in new Quake Champions closed beta gameplay videos, I suggest:
- Go on Youtube;
- Search "Quake Champions";
- Set a search filter to "Upload Date".

That will give you the most recent videos on the top. All you have to do is scroll down through 1-2 pages, and you'll find enough content (dismissing all the re-uploads of official trailers).

I've gathered like ~60 minutes of raw gameplay from illegal NDA breaking uploads on youtube. People just dont seem to care, they upload anyway.