While this may or may not be a fun mode in its own right, I would be sad if this would be a replacement for classic duel.

I agree.

Some players can't live with fact, that you can play classic duel with champion abilities..
I am fine with abilities in duel, fine with "you can pick 3 champs in duel and change to any of them after death in a middle of match", but this is a little to much for my taste :)

It would be sad if the duel mode was just the classic mode.

QC is a new and gameplay game with innovative aspects to the quake series. Providing the classic mode of dueling is a setback and all the effort employed in QC in presenting a modern gameplay for a game like quake will be in vain.

Players who do not have the intellectual ability to adapt to the new style of playing quake, should stay in QL or move to any other game.

Another attempt to provide innovative gameplay was shootmania.

Seriously, I am totally for something new, but building up a completely artificial and unnatural ruleset almost never works.

As soon as someone says 'innovative' you know something is going wrong. A new car is better at being a car, it doesn't need to provide a fifth functional wheel bolted on while replacing the steering wheel with a nubbin. Innovative in games is usually code for third rate messing around on already well-defined features that need polish instead of lame reinvention.

Also, let's not forget who is the lead designer of the game, his quake expertise, and how many succesful gameplay innovations he has created.

"As soon as someone says 'innovative' you know something is going wrong." Tell this to OW.

Funny how so much here on this site have already mocked that quake is outdated and needed to reinvent itself. And as a result, the quake community over any other crappy fps game is a lot less, very less. And as if that was not enough, they still leave the game for other generic games and more cute, like Warsow and now this Reflex. And this is reflection of the game not being innovative.

These changes will cover a much larger audience, hell, look at the QL case. The champions were always always Rapha, Cypher, Avek or Cooller. Ever! And even there was never a major TDM or CTF of QL in ESL, only in duels. Now look at the CSGO case, you never really know who will be the champion of any tournament, because the competitive level is very close and the community is huge. The only ones that stood out a little above were SK Gaming.

I can not wait for another 10 years for some quake that really succeeds and falls on the public thanks, instead of seeing another retrograde quake fail once more.

OW isn't particularly innovative anyway, and if I wanted to play OW, I'd play OW. :D

"Innovative" is a buzzword 99% of the time you hear it. That's the problem with it. They made changes to Quake; Quake needs some nice changes. But this new duel mode, the topic of this thread, certainly doesn't look like a nice change. It's like a fight where they break you up after each blow you land and reset everything, and it is ultimately being done because champions cannot be balanced in duel. You can average that out with multiple matches, but no one wants to watch an hour long duel. So it becomes mini-duels.

Also, the same people winning tournaments time and time again is partly an indication that outcomes aren't so random. Some players are genuinely better than others and will usually win. If of the top 10 pros, each tournament was won by a random one of these, then it'd be a fair indication of randomness in the game or that the skill ceiling was reached---because players don't just overtake each other in skill so frequently.

OW isn't innovative, it's polished as fuck.

> The only ones that stood out a little above were SK Gaming.

You're totally right. NiP's 87 map win streak at lans was definitely not noteworthy.

Ye but wasn't that like 3 years ago, but still this guy is wrong, Astralis and Faze also stand out not just SK

Is this your brainchild or id moved on to heroin after so much coke?

watch the video at 6:18 min you can watch a gameplay

Ok, so heroin.




Hope the golden shot comes soon.

lol

I don't think the differences in the champions abilities/stats are enough to make much difference over a normal duel when the players have 125/0 etc.

wtf looks like a match of who is better with more champions, why would you do that? You want people to have fun and play their best not reach the "oh fuck I have to play the slow ass mofo I hope I die fast so i can have fun again" moment

Both the audience and competitors will probably fall asleep if this is the mode they decide to showcase as an eSport during Qcon.

no more 9 overtime during duel :(

Thank God. Whoever thought timed OTs was a good idea is a clown. I MUCH preferred sudden death OT

This tbh, way more tension.

WRONG! This system INCREASES the chances of overtimes to 3 per match! While classic duel has only one.

The chances of getting all three sudden death overtimes is pretty low, I'd say.

In normal duel, you can get multiple consecutive overtimes because the first overtime makes the second more likely to occur, etc. Not so in the round based game.

Seriously. It's literally impossible for a fast paced, high scoring game to happen in this.

LMAO

now QC is truly a failure

Where's my refund?

This actually sounds kinda interesting in a way that would make duel work with a game that has varied champions (if the champions themselves arent going away, which I dont think they are)

The likely result though is very soon ppl will figure out the best 'decks' for duel and thats all people will bring in.

one thing they should do for duel is copy that tournament mode from Q4 where it had multiple duels going on the same server and winners played eachother until one remained. It was a way more social way to get duels going with a bunch of ppl playing on a server at the same time rather than just 2 grognards playing alone.

is it kind of similar to games like marvel vs. capcom?

I like this concept of duel for 'casual' mode - like quick play in overwatch.

But if this is the official duel mode for esports, I am very disappointed as the majority of depth and strategy has been removed.

I remember the Quake4 tourney or tournament mode, paying duel with 9 others on the same server at the same time. There was even a bracket system with rounds, semifinal and final. You could also spectate the duel match that you wanted. I think its better then having just two players dueling, while the others are "stuck" spectating and waiting for their turn to play.

It would be fun if they added something similar in classic mode.

I loved that mode, can't believe it wasn't added to QL, like you I hope to see it in some form in QC.

think competitive overwatch would actually be more exciting than this duel mode

I think current OW duel mode is more exciting than this

I had a feeling they were going to do this and I have a feeling its going to be a nightmare to balance.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, it will take a few minutes to hack (legally!) this out and replace it with normal mode if its not cutting it.

Or idsoftware can put classic duel mode in there as an unlockable, or a mode you can only access once you've passed a certain test of skill in the game to sandbox the brutality of duel from the masses.

People can't complain quake is getting tired then shit on new ideas before they even played them.

If they don't work, stripping those bits out would be an easy job for id and I'm sure they would do that as they understand, in fact they might prefer it because they would keep the vets away from the mainstream.

I wish they had the balls to make classic duel ranked alongside this. But it would probably make em look like idiots in front of Bethesda when people chose to play it over their new hip mode

found a way to make quake champions duel less gay than that

just make it mimick this old classic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW7HSShdNIs

WTF did I just watch. The fact that grown men are doing this makes me want to cry

wahahHA

LOL that's basically 1v1 CA

lmao

this, but with way more spectators

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm unsure what to think.

One thing I'm sure is I'll miss the classic duel mode. This rewards pretty defensive play does it not ?

I mean the most frags one player can get on a map is 8 : 2 frags and lose the first round, then 3 frags for the other two rounds.

Guess huge comebacks and spawnraping madness are things of the past. Timing also seems a bit less relevant ?

Dunno really. Need to try, and QC sure needs some balancing still.

for sure there will be a higher use of rail, and if you kill your opponent round is not resetted, so if you get first kill is easy to get a spawn frag and win a match i think

I mean the most frags one player can get on a map is 8 : 2 frags and lose the first round, then 3 frags for the other two rounds.

what?

8:2
Loose first round with 3:2
Win other two with 3:0

You get 8:2 in frags and you cannot get more frags than that

Guess huge comebacks and spawnraping madness are things of the past.

That shit is a thing of the past ever since they made you respawn relative to where your enemy is at the time of clicking m1 instead of at the time of death.

That's even more past than past.

Alright then

also ur mocking heartless for playing 1v1 ca . . .

Heartless is going to win next Quakecon duel tournament, called it here first.

well he is the unquestionably best

Thanks Tim

the whole scene should be gifd :D

Can you post the original youtube vid? Can't remember what it's called.

there will be mimiMIIIIIII

hahahahAHAHAHAHHAh honeymode QC duel

What the fuck is this shit.

Sponge seemed so tense with Zero4's abilities while playing against him, while Zero4 looked like "coolface". xD

That's SyncError.

Ops, my bad!

he looks like hes on speed or smth

His neck is the perfect shape for swallowing donuts whole.
Rolls em right down.
https://youtu.be/OJKraZb4FPQ

I'm so excited for this ;)

How much do they pay you for such a comment, srsly? :D

Plenty enough to afford sarcasm courses.

:))

So basically Quake is done...Q4 was flop and QC will be even bigger. Instead of destroying everything game was they should only add new things. I am ok with abilities but this is too much. Server browser surely will be missed too like in Doom because of matchmaking...

As far as I remember, players with the free to play account only have ranger and need to earn points to rent other heros.

So in order to play duel as a free-to-play player, you first need to earn enough points to rent at least 2 more heros? Or how will that go?

Very badly?

yes you need to have 2 more champions unlocked

Not even going to try QC

If this doesn't convince people they're fucking retarded I don't know what will. Absolute disgrace to the name of quake.

id will put a classic duel mode in, I'm sure of it.
They know most people who want that will be experienced players, its good business sense as it takes a sizable number of vets away from the newer player base and it keeps both sets of fans happy.

They could even charge for it, or make it some kind of unlockable.

There's no reason to twist peoples arm over it and it would take their software guys minutes to write this in.

Nothing is a sure thing anymore. id also put in loadouts (any wep), item timers, universal ammo packs, and auto-bunny hopping into QL once upon a time. They consistently make bad decisions in their game design and this duel mode is continued proof of that.

Likely those features were tested to better understand them and how they affect gameplay so devs would know wheather to include them in QC or not.

I don't buy it man. Have you ever had a conversation with sponge? The man is a clueless turd who straight up hates quake3. He likes nothing about it, he thinks strafejumpimg is stupid. Each gameplay change he came up with was retarded and in best cases scenario it was rolled back to how it was before, but always too late.

I always wondered how he manages to keep his job at id, but with all this news concerning quake champions I realizesd that he's not the cause of the problem, but rather whole of idsoft is full of idiots like him. There's probably no one left there who cares about quake, except for syncerror (whatever opinion this sites users might have on him)

Why on earth is a guy who hates Quake working at id?

It's a "web development career takes a wild turn" kind of story.

Money, prestige?

So he was pretending to love Quake in the job interview? :D

It's just a question.





Or the answer didn't matter.

All of this because of CERN, D-Wave and the mandela effect.
http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5qoumXxkf1qfrkf9o8_250.gif

After sleeping on it, I realize now that this was always going to be the way the official 'duel ranked mode' would be. Kind of.

People here who complained are quick to forget a few things.

1) They've confirmed classic mode. So you'll certainly have your classic 1v1 no bullshit action that so many (including I) love.

2) Such a classic mode was never gonna be the esports / official / ranked mode. Atleast not the one that they're going to promote at their own events such as Quakecon, atleast not for a few years. They want to use and balance their champion system.

3) There's another esports mode that they're working on right now. I'm still looking forward to it.

4) There are other modes you'll be able to play.

So yeah, I'll miss the old classic Quake duels, but I also realize it is a move they have to make for consistency and to appeal to a new audience. Maybe in a couple years, the mode(s) for esports could shift to completely different things, including classic Quake duels. But this can't and wont happen as the game comes fresh with a new concept. Also, I'm not sure this kind of duel will not be interesting in its own right. We have to wait and see, I'm sure there are still going to be some epic matches in the future with that format, it's just hard to imagine right now.

Its probably pretty good for new players, since they can't be spawn raped 50-0 over 10-15 minutes with no chance to recover. They can learn the basics of duel without all the frustrations and ego destruction that come with classic duel. Ofc if classic duel is being played in the pro tourneys they'll want to move on to that, but at least by then they should be better prepared.

I had quite a bit of fun in Q2 doing 2 minute duels, you can try out all sorts of different ways to start the map. In an hours play you've experienced 30 different ways to start the map, compared to just 4-6 ways if you played full length games.

yes but for classical 1v1 they'd miss map control and how to play out of control stuff, things even more important than how to start a match the right way

Good points. I remember having quite some fun playing 2-3 mins duels with a friend back in 09 when we started with quake. We practiced the starts, a little map control without it "dragging" out. Small mistakes were obvious, but you weren't annoyed for long because sonn a new duel started and you could try to improve while still having the mistakes clear in mind. Was pretty chill.

LOL. You're always on here being apologist for some of the lamest game design decisions in the history of Quake. :P

I dunno if it is blind faith or unbridled optimism.

They have confirmed "classic mode" in the same way as QL had those shitty custom servers with no gravity, vampiric damage, and the ability to shoot a thousand rockets per second. It won't be ranked, and it won't be accessible via matchmaking. Tim Willits already came out saying he really didn't think people wanted to play it.

Duel might not have been intended as the new esports mode, but that was no reason to give it brain damage.

"I also realize it is a move they have to make for consistency and to appeal to a new audience."

A round based mode isn't consistent with their other modes as far as I have seen. Does that TDM-Domination hybrid have rounds too?

Also, there is a limit to how much heresy and retardation they really need to pull out in order to "appeal to a new audience". I refuse to believe that their target audience is that stupid. Remember we're supposed to have matchmaking protecting noobs from rape.

Captain Taichou. Please. Tell me another design that:

1) is essentially a duel (1 versus 1)
2) stays true to the champions design
3) works for you

Right now all you are doing is shouting heresy. Much like people used to call abilities an heresy in the early days and are now quieter because the game actually feels nice and the abilities don't really ruin Quake (albeit everyone agrees that some tweaks are still needed).

Unlike what you seem to think I'm not beeing apologetic. I said I think it sucks compared to good ol' Quake but hey, a new Quake 3 port on new graphics wouldn't have worked, period. We're way past it now and what we have to do is find a way to reconciliate Quake with a popular audience all the while trying to maintain the veterans happy.

Do you seriously think I'm jumping in glee at the change ? I love classic duel, but we need to go forward and instead of calling it aweful before even trying it, let's give out constructive ideas, propose feedback and whatnot.

My view is that champions in duel is unlikely to work very well, but we'll see.

If I were going to have champions in duel, I would not make it round based. Even just regular duel with the addition of champions would be better than that.

My inability to conceive of a way to make champions work well in a duel mode does not mean that the way that id appears to be doing it is any good.

Also, you can use your logic for any change whatsoever.

If they propose change X that is the most retarded thing in the universe, you can say, well, people thought some other change was crap and it turned out okay, so X must not really be crap either. At best, it is pointing out the obvious: that what we are doing is speculation. I also speculate that the likely outcome of jumping off a cliff is death.

The reason champions aren't ruining the game as much as people thought (and that really remains to be seen) is that, even as evidenced in the IGN review, the champions are a side show.

I agree we shouldn't recreate q3 and that we need to make concessions to get a large enough player base, but round-based duel is irredeemable. It reeks of deliberately crippling the mode so that people will play whatever team mode they have dreamt up instead. Round-based duel is either a small step up or a big step down from 1v1 CA. Either way, it's pretty garbage.

My constructive feedback is "get rid of this crap". :D

Maybe you're not an apologist; maybe you just really want to believe. :D

I should have added a point in my first post, that says 'this is still early closed beta and we (+bethesda) have plenty of months still to feedback and change things around'.

Since my initial post, I have already seen quite a few other suggestions and some of those ideas sounded better than what we've seen on the video from the op. Hell, I had that thought that some of those ideas could be merged together, tweaked and refined, and what's good is nothing is written in stone yet, atleast not before the end of august 2017 when there should be some kind of tournament.

Plenty of time to discuss and tweak things around. I'm all for something that I'll like better. Why would I shoot myself in the foot saying this is perfect ? No it isn't, but atleast I'm not straight up hatin'. Let's help them get a good balance by proposing solutions: that would be positive and constructive criticism.

Expressing that you don't like something is feedback enough. :D

And the reason for that is that I'm not really interested in seeing this mode tweaked and refined since its fundamental nature will remain the same.

What is positive and constructive criticism to you? Saying, oh that's great, why don't you just change this or that little thing?

Let's remember this conversation started with you correcting people "complaining" by telling them what you think they have forgotten and saying this new mode is some unavoidable necessity, implying ANY change that brings in the audience is acceptable change.

I guess it is fine to have another mode in there if it is on top of a non-round-based duel mode that exists as well, but really, the development effort would be better spent on something else IMO.

What I meant is, they WANT us to use the champions in duel. You have to start with the idea that you will have different champions in a duel. Which means that they have to choose a gameplay design that implies that nobody ever just uses ONE champion only.

That leaves not so many possibilities. I've seen someone suggest that there could be a timelimit to use each champion. Say like 3 times 5 minutes in a duel that is not round based.

Now that's feedback, that's something I like. But then again it has its flaws. Let's sit down and discuss them. Because a round based game also has its benefits over that suggestion.

Anyway ain't got much time atm but you get my idea :p

Why not use only one champion in duel? Oh, that's right. They know fine and well that it won't ever be balanced that way. This is normally dealt with by averaging out imbalance with multiple matches. But no, they want to make counter-picking an aspect of the game, and such a disgusting aspect it is. It makes balance study a part of the game, and the more champions you've got, the more of a burden that becomes.

One interesting question is, can you tell what champions your opponent picked when you're picking your own? I'd prefer it to be done blindly, but even then, choosing the right champion based on what your opponent is using becomes an aspect of the game during the rounds.

Why exactly does your usage of one of your selected heroes have to be limited anyway? You could have a normal roundless duel where you just pick a champion after each death, just like we've seen in the TDM. Is the problem that the OP champ of the week is gonna be the only one anyone wishes to use? Is it to make sure you have mastery of multiple champs, even though half of them will be horribly slow and shit to use and even though Tim Willits has been saying you'd just pick the champ you like and stick with it---unlike in, say, OW.

What they have now is like best of three mini-duels with frag limits instead of time limits. So a normal bo5 final will be bo5 bo3s? :D
It's chopping the game up into bite sized chunks.

There's always going to be a map where having a champion with vq3 movement is the best choice. Another where aircontrol allows you to go places/routes a vq3 can't. There may be more open maps where a tankier champion is better because you're going to be in the face of your opponent more often than not, etc.

So if you just allow people to use whatever champion they want, they might endup using only always the same champion depending on the map architecture. Or people just might always use Visor cause he's the best alround champion with a wallhack.

I don't know man, I don't know, my head hurts. :D

Haha yeah, I haven't got too much energy for this, so let's just wait and see what happens. :D

I just know I was kinda happy when I heard old Willits say I could just choose the champion that appealed to me and use that one mostly without having things like teams forcing me to use a champion I don't like.

"Much like people used to call abilities an heresy in the early days and are now quieter because the game actually feels nice and the abilities don't really ruin Quake"


Nah, I played 150 games and still call it heresy.



Well, that's a pretty soft word compared to what came in mind just now. : D

when/where was classic mode confirmed? i heard tim saying one thing and later quite the opposite...

who the fuck confirmed a classic mode?!
no one did.

you can just disable the abilities on custom servers. and that's all that has been mentioned officially yet.

so they f*cks up totaly DUEL, so everyone will be forced to play TEAM MODE. smart move. checkmate.

ok I can understand Noctis being ok with this, after all he hates duel and also dm6 and he had already accomplished removing dm6 from tourneys in ql, but until now failed to kill duel too.

but is Zero4 OK with this? We are talking for a real man here, a manly real quaker... weird

I guess it might not be that bad, as it seems in theory?

I think is like
Zero4: "Dont change duel Tim."
Tim:" Shut up!" lol

noctis - wickland world chempion
zero4 - free coke

noctis - emo kid from Australia
zero4 - real man, cooller rated. He could kick noctis ass just by looking at him

They should call the classic duel game mode "Elite duel" or "Advanced Duel" so that new players know what's up, it should also be ranked. The new duel mode, could be called simply "duel".

Training wheels duel.

"Balls duel".

blame me again lol
this is another thing I suggested on the old doom3 forum back in 2003, along the idea of having different attributes per every char of the game, if the id guys did not remember that than I might just haven been using my mind powers to convert the reality into this

on a more serious note thing is that Doom3 deathmatch would have been deserving a mode like this, because the very different mechanics* and universe

*=per pixel detection, dynamic lights so you could shut down lights and programmable mega

Was this posted on the official Bethesda Softworks youtube channel? If so, why was it removed?

Is posted on C-c-combo Breaker is a russian youtube channel, they was invited in id studios

Ah, I see... Thanks :)

So they were given permission to go into id headquarters and film a bunch of shit, but they aren't allowed to publish it?

Nah it's an advertising move

quakelive: DUEL mode
quakechamipons: 1v1 CA called duel mode




https://youtu.be/he2pOrvRlek

solo3some :P

In general Quake failed becouse:
1) No matchmaking / Ranks
2) No updated graphics
3) No microtransactions/ skins and so on.
4) To slow map rotation for 15 years.

Its the main reasons...

no, main reason - its too difficult to win

in ow/cs/dota or lolCA u jump into game and instawin

newfags must win ----> abilities and nerf skill-requirments

people are always inventing reasons for the failure of things, but often lack any good data to claim those reasons are causes. people are fond of using anecdote or personal experience.

there are many factors that contribute to the change of quake's appeal. the rise of counter-strike 1.3 - 1.6 really fundamentally changed quake's position in north american/european PC gaming, and that was close to the tail end of quake 3's life.

the lowered cost of owning a decent PC contributed to a higher population of gamers who weren't really into quake type games. the number of quake players remains pretty consistent over time, but the percentage of quake players out of total PC gamers has reduced significantly.

the PC gaming economy began a fundamental shift from 2001-2004.

what if the main reason quake "failed" (as you say, i don't consider it failure) is because people just don't want to play arena shooters?

what arena shooters have been released in the past 10 years that you would consider successful?

I was were, then Q4 came out. a lot CS'ers tryed it, most Q2 , Q3 players. Some retired big names. Guys from UT's. And it was after CS 1.3. Ofcourse I am not talking about CS numbers, but "good" numbers for quake game.

what are good numbers for a quake game?

let's say 1/4 of what CS have.

http://steamcharts.com/app/730

you think quake peaked at 150,000 players online at any given time?

I am not saying Quake peaked 150k (maybe it did, I dont know), but it's the number I am aiming for new quake to get. "I wish" number 1/4

Quake is never gonna be one quarter as popular as cock sucking, dude. :D

Depends on which demographic you ask. : D

yeah the 1) point 4 sure
and yes 3) no hats like TF2 or skins like CSGO wha tis sad & funny but masses want them ^^

Please not more than 1 duel mode. Thank you.

A scoring mode that can always be won back (like Tennis, CS:GO,...) is surely a good idea. It depends how the games will pan out though, if it's still viable to sacrifice 1 frag for map control+ etc..

It's good that players have to unlock at least 2 more Champs, because duel is not a for-fun mode. It needs to be wanted to play.

3 champion pool = good
if you die being forced to swap to another=bad

this!

CS:GO is pretty much the same game as Counter-Strike the Half-Life 1 mod in 1999.

CS:GO didn't have to reinvent the wheel by adding nonsensical / untested gameplay and gimmicks. They just needed to polish the product, add modern features (matchmaking and ranks to stroke the ego), a dash of autism (skins) to expose the classic gameplay to a wider audience. It even took them 2 tries to get the popularity level they enjoy now. (CS Source is the same shit aswell, but wasn't nearly as popular)

Don't know why Quake Champions can't at least have one mode that is throwback to how duel has essentially been since Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4.

When there's a game with fucking eggbots coming out that could potentially be better than the first real Quake since 3 (lol Q4), firings need to occur ASAP.

agree with everything ^

mostly F1

CSS was rly meh and CSGO played by so many and no decline in sight

BF1 got it harder with very late 1st dlc

and Rainbow Six rly like a phoenix from the ashes :<

The difference is that CS already had a huge userbase, Quake does not right now.

csgo hardly plays like 1.6. the skins are the driving force behind its revival as it wasnt going too hot before they were introduced

the salt in this thread is breathtaking

The liquid crap that floods id's headquarters is even more amazing.

Can't believe I just read every single comment in this thread.