"- After each death you respawn with your remaining champions, pickups are respawned"

Pickups are reset after the end of a round, not after a death.

Slasher, you had one job...

fixed

how will this work for free to play users with just one champ?

they fucked up

Previous video says that you can unlock all champions through playing the game? Or you can buy the champ pack. Maybe I'm hallucinating

You can rent champions with the inside game money but I'm not sure you can make more than one available at once.

what do you mean by rent? you can't unlock them permanently?

You can once you get some real money, but I think you can only unlock them for a period of time with favor, the in game money. Still, you can get items and sell them for money and then buy champions one by one forever I think.

This is terrible. Epic added this retarded non-respawing round based duel thing (not hoonymode) and it is 100% terrible.

3 champs selection, but not forced to change champ if dead, just let the player decide if he wants to change upon death. This makes the player feel that the champ decision is more at his discretion, because he always can select any of his 3 choices and isnt forced by the game reducing his options. This way youre rewarding players that know how to use different champs, while not forcing players that prefer to play one champ only to play uncomfortable.

- Two 5 minute rounds, Spawn points are reversed in the second round, so both players have absolutely the same chances to win, killing all the initial spawn point drama.

- Frags are added at the end of the second round, player with more frags wins, if equal, a third "golden frag" round takes place without timelimit.

- So basically, same as QL duels, theres one chance max of needing sudden death, because with the proposed new duel you get 3 sudden death max! Which can actually end having average longer duel duration than with QL, which would be detrimental for the game in this ADD era.

- No fraglimit! Fraglimit is bad for the game, if a guy can pull lots of frags in those 5 minutes, great, you have an incentive for players to do +forward if on control cause maybe the next round they wont have control.

- Also on second round youre forcing the guy that lost the first to take a more +forward strategy because he cant just win via 1-0 +backfest, he HAS to at least match the frag difference the other player got in the first round to force a golden frag round.

This sounds better, but I don't see the point of rounds. It destroys the fluidity for no reason.

BO3 three-frag-limit rounds sounds horrible.

Non-random spawns reward memorization of openings, just like in chess, which Bobby Fischer declared was "dead" due to such memorization.

Also, the last thing you want is some autistic savant memorizing the spawns in one round and applying them in the second. :D

What you mean with memorizing spawn? Only initial spawn is reversed in the second round, and both players will know where the other one spawns because it will be the same place they spawned in the first round. So its exactly the same for both players.

Yeah, okay. On proper consideration, what you're saying makes sense. But I still think it is overkill to introduce rounds just to eliminate that small degree of randomness introduced by initial spawns, especially when you can iron it out with longer games perhaps determined by a fraglimit + timelimit combo.

I don't see the point of rounds

The point of rounds is to make use of champions somehow. Because i could hardly see anybody will use them in a normal no-round 10 timelimit 0 fraglimit duel. Everybody would just demand classic without abilities, because there is a very little point in switching between the champs during the game.

So they enhanced the value of each your life (and choice of champ after you lose it) dramatically.

Now everybody will use champs and combine them. But i dunno, it must be clear for all of us that the proposed format now will transform duel into some weird combination of CA and DUEL: everybody will start a game as normal duel, but then try as hard as possible to avoid each other until they will have an absolute maximum stack/arsenal, in other words, until they will reach the start stack of CA round. And then the first fight will decide who's the winner of the round, neither the strategy, nor the tactics, just that single CA fight.

It could be even "FUN", i guess, but it could not be the right thing to force the players in FPS to avoid each other and, thus, decrease the amount of fights and overall speed.

They must introduce Fatalities then. And Babalities. And so on.

It sounds incredibly bad, not just to play but to spectate as well. Not just the CA aspect you mentioned, which I had considered too, but the fact it is forcing you to use champions you probably wouldn't want to use.

What is so great about using more than one champion in a single game anyway? And what is so bad about just using one champion?

The only reasons I can think of why you wouldn't want to choose a single champion each in a normal duel format are lack of balance and the fact that everyone will just use the OP champ for the current balance patch.

Frag limits in general are pretty bad for duel unless there is literally nowhere to hide. They work well for FFA, but not so well in duel. The closer your opponent gets to winning, the more tricky and careful and +back you become. But with a time limit, the closer to the end, the more aggressive and quick thinking you have to be to come back. And let's consider that the frag limit here in this proposed duel mode is only 3!

With respect to reversed spawn points in the second round -- it's still not fair because in this case in 2nd round both players will know each other's spawns. So not gonna work well unless they make both players know spawns in the first round as well. Or, as a variant, to let them both choose first spawn points before the match (like showing some shared map plan, where player1 selects first and then player2 makes his selection, and in the second round they get reversed spawns, or simply player2 selects first).

Dunno if this would be interesting or not, just trying to find a solution for the mentioned issue.

I was thinking something along those lines, but it gets a bit more complicated than that. In the first round, they both lack knowledge of spawns, which is fair, and in the second round, they both have knowledge of spawns, which is fair. In the first round, one may have an advantageous spawn, but that is cancelled by the opponent having that same advantageous spawn in the second round.

The only unfairness comes when the combination of lack of knowledge and advantageous spawn provides more (or less) advantage than the combination of knowledge and advantageous spawn.

Either that or I'm too tired to think clearly. :D

If you know for sure that you've got a better spawn in the second round and you know where your opponent has spawned, you can try to take all major items or to kill him before he picks up something

Yep, better just to go with randomness and averaging it out with more time and more games.

Why not just have 2 start spawns? Spawn A and spawn B. I dig your ideas. Sound a lot better.

Because it's less interesting, and it's too predictable. Every game would start the same way. Taking this sort of minimization of initial spawn randomness to the extreme, you end up with symmetrical maps.

showdown in ut4 does this.

it is aids

- Frags are added at the end of the second round, player with more frags wins, if equal, a third "golden frag" round takes place without timelimit.

I know that's up to the players respective styles and some matches already end up being like that when someone's offense or defense is overwhelming for the other player but if such a dynamic were to be set in stone rather than fluctate freely, things would suck real bad for everybody.

wow, a perfect duel system for quakecon. 4 minute matches, might even see all of them on stream instead of the typical 10%.

H U R R D U R R
U
R
R
D
U
R
R

Sounds very much like a fighting game, especially like KoF. :-)

Heh, I instantly thought of KoF as well.

enough!

Time to get back to Warsow/CPMA with proper Duel modes.

Isn't it Wickland rip-off?

The first thing I thought of was Shadowcaster! Looks weird, but cool premise.

tim limit warning
:tim:

gay

So succinct. :D

Good thing I didn't get a key. Bad enough reading the horror show, bet it's even worse playing this shit..

noticed this on the whiteboard:

good catch, atrocious calligraphy

can someone CSI this shit and see what is written on the postits? Or is the quality just not good enough?

Impossible based on what's been uploaded to youtube.

Only chance would be to source the native video from who shot it. hope its 4k, or that it was shot in RAW, or +100MBPS, then you might have a chance.

Or just ask the devs, you never know, that info could well be irrelevant by now and they might be happy to share.

My guess is....

You develop into a worthy [img1] master warrior. You are invited to the secret #125fps club house.

also Syncerror has a harness attached to his Dxracer

Seeing the current state of QC they didn't make a good use of it.

http://i.imgur.com/HT1vTDc.png

looks like he's having a small stroke

Even though I welcome innovations in a duel mode, this one doesn't sound right to me. It's a very common situation when someone who gets the first frag, gets a couple of additional spawn frags. Now it looks like playing bo3 in QL on one map with fraglimit 3, timelimit 5. That sounds ridiculous to me.
I think it's not that hard to invent some mechanics that would require changing champs during the game but with no fraglimit.

Yeah, getting a spawn frag would be much more important in this format. And to let such a random factor be of such importance in the outcome of a match...

Please just add this mode on top of classic Duel, id.

By the way, how people are supposed to select 3 different champs when they've got only Ranger?

i dont think they want new f2p players to try duel anyway. everyone who either buys the game or plays a lot should have 3 heroes

So who is it for then? Sure as shit aint for old fucks like us.

So this mode is not for new players, and for old players the choice between purchasing champions and using a custom gametype with old duel ruleset is clear.

id will probably try to push this mode via quakecon, but I think other tournaments are expected to be much more sane, especially seeing most duel scene playing normal q3-like custom duels and not opting to pay any money for champions.

There goes the dream of having every passive ability for both players ala CPM. I mean this way it's perfectly balanced and super deep skill wise while retaining the noob appeal of class metas for team modes, but nah just dumb it all down into the ground.

http://i.imgur.com/IAiM3oA.jpg

but u covered where it actually says donuts :'(

lol didn't see that

quake champions is dead

I welcome changes to make duel more fun for playing and especially spectating...but until we play it, we cannot say is it gonna work good or not. If not, id should at least offer classic duel as additional mod.

I hate this line of reasoning: "How do you know you don't love shit, have you ever had some?" No because my nose still works.

Agreed.

Good point nalipotanka. You never know till you try it.

I assume you've eaten cat shit then. :P

No i dont really read the troll parts of comments anymore.

I just take the parts that are useful and not nasty for my head-space and try to move on.

It disgusted me reading that one part, so I stuck with the one that was useful and helpful.

Just seemed like a horrible analogy or w/e it is called in definition.

go back to reddit you pussy

So, you basically surround yourself and only pay attention to people that agree with your point of view? All the while thinking of yourself as an open minded individual, yes?

no what he was only vulgar and was a bad comparison or analogy or whatever you call it. Since there was no real point can let negativity like that/filth like that slide right off me. with no consequences.

Ah alright, my apologies.

Don't apologize! My analogy was as apt as they get even if vulgar. And so was your description of him. But let's be more open minded than he is - it's possible he didn't get the point due to illiteracy instead of stupidity.

die slow

Has it been confirmed that it's the official duel mode ? It could be something else, a new tournament mode or so.

Sounds horrible if this replaces the old format but I can see why they'd do so because it prevents non stop rape (which shouldn't happen with proper matchmaking), puts an emphasis on the multiple champions and probably have faster matches (while SC / CS:GO, dota 2 and so on have long matches which seem to bother no one).

Still, while I was quite enthusiastic for now, this really bothers me. Why have such a revolution for your main mode, really ? It's a different game 100% now, Mortal Kombat Quake.

Did Starcraft 2 changed the gameplay of their game ? No. Did CS:S and then CS:GO change something ? No. Dota didn't change too, why the hell should Quake be sacrificed with a total change that doesn't respect what it was before ?

Quite annoying.

Agree entirely, why change something that is tried and tested, duel has been a staple of quake for years and has millions of hours behind it to show the balance to be true, yet they decide against the typical format, how dumb

It's so different that it shouldn't even be called duel. I mean, every player who has experienced or witnessed duel in Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, QL will clearly see this has nothing to do with it.

I have the feeling this mode doesn't care about timing because things get reset fast anyway, etc. I can understand having timers to help lazy newcomers and noob young players that cannot stand the least difficulty, but this is totally different.

Its the official duel mode 100%

Great argument for classic duel.

Arena shooters died. Quake died. 5000 viewers watching your only tournament of the year means that's it's long gone.

The games you're comparing quake to did never die. So comparing something which still works well and never ceased to work with something which used to work but doesn't work since god knows when is not really logical.

The real question is why it stopped working. Maybe id just dropped the ball and didn't do things that the likes of Blizzard and Valve did. Or is it truly just because this type of game can't be popular?
I find this hard to believe for the simple reason that watching DOTA is the most boring thing in the known universe, yet it has a lot of viewers.

Yeah, that's the question.

I guess, some things are popular, because they are popular, sorry for the tautology. Ppl want the "best" game to watch and to play so they choose the most popular. What we do not know where the Quake would be now if it was supported and promoted all these last years, kept up to date in terms of match-making, skins, gfx and all that.

Yep, popularity definitely helps something get more popular or at least stay popular. It's like a kind of inertia or snowball effect.

welcome, welcome to 2017

Obvious Z4 lobby in favor of his padawan Hendrixson detected.

GG WP RAPHA QC 2017-18-19-20 CHAMPION OF QC CHAMPIONS

NO RE

Raffer!!

The fact that id chose to reveal this information via some weird russian outlet tells you their estimation of western audiences' interest in Duel.

guys, what are you afraid of ?

it still has strafe-jumping/bunny-hopping/crouch-sliding, quake maps, rg lg rl, items to pick up, art design is still quake-like, sounds are good, the game is still quake at its core.

sure this new duel mode seems quite a lot different than the usual we're now used to, but who cares, i personally like changes, you'll just have to adapt to new things, will bring new strategies/tactics, will be NEW & FRESH but STILL pure-quake at its core.

if they removed strafe-jumping, removed the holy trinity that is rg lg rl, changed the game art design and made it to something like overwatch, yes i would be disappointed/scared that it's not quake anymore.

compare Q1 with Q2 with Q3, with every new version of quake, came a lot of changes, but still quake at its core.

QC will be amazing, can't wait to try out this new duel mode.

hf

Youre saying that cause youre a CA whore and this new duel is a lot more CA-ish than classic duel.

what

i didn't even think of this new duel mode being closer to CA than the regular one, and i don't think it is :o

Thank you for the positive outlook! Felt good to read that.

Each quake was much different, but still with core in-tact!

take a look at this thread then : http://esreality.com/post/2867995/all-the-hate-towards-qc/

;)

Your comments are giving me the vibe that you should stay on FB looking at pictures of cats. :P

Are you a bot?

die slow

this kind of makes me regret disabling my internet connection at home. qc duel is starting to sound fun.

my wife even made fun of me, saying i'll want the internet connection back within 2-3 months, and i screamed at her as i was punching her that she's wrong.

i guess i owe somebody some flowers and an apology.

Well, if the game will include "Classic" mode, this "small" upset of a game mode that they're trying to introduce to casuals is not really a problem, imagine it as a built-in-mod.

The thing to wet our pants about is the "Classic" mode.

1) Timelimit - 10 or 15 ? Maybe 5 ? What is on their minds ?
2) What is the weapon balance like ?
3) What is the ruleset for pro-tournaments ? Will we give into this stupidity of "CoD perks" for champions and try that in tournaments, or will we decide on one default "hero" for both players, that has balanced "abilities" ? Will we turn the abilities off altogether ?

How many questions like that can you spin out from this one big problem they've created, which I can only pin-point as "lack of imagination presenting itself as copycating MOBAs and what not".


IMHO all this game needs is proper marketing. Just that. Quake has been perfected over the years. I'm sure it wasn't perfect in Quake Live or Quake 3, but the duel mode was unbelievably fun to watch.

To satisfy the crybabies who cannot hit/dodge, all you need is great matchmaking.

So you market the game everywhere, pull people in with graphics and good matchmaking to make them feel good, to make them feel the need for skill development to rise up (just like CS:GO does), and you leave the age-old formula that has been perfected to do it's job.

Instead, they're twisting the formula of a great tasting cake round and round, and from what I gather - they're not really sure themselves what they're doing exactly. In the end, you're not getting cake, you're getting a cup of sugar, which will get long in the tooth very soon. Just like new CoD titles.

April Fool's???

Current system punishes you for two when killed, the frag your enemy gets AND the inability to play with the champ u were playing till next round, which prolly is your prefered one, why would you start a round giving advantages? So it end being double frustration. And the player that frags keeps playing with his prefered champ, this makes comebacks more difficult.

Not restricting champ selection commends players that are proficient with many champs, while 1 champ wonders can play the way they want.

I've been pretty supportive of QC as I feel the game looks to be going in a decent direction but this duel mode...

Completely idiotic.

Why?

They'll have a classic duel mode too.

This is just so they can make it more noob friendly in every game mode. Duel is very harsh if you're used to getting your kills in a team, or ffa based environment which most of the new blood to the game will be used to.

By breaking the game up with rounds and making it shorter or giving the player fresh hope instead of 10 mins of rape, you don't make the player feel like shit, even if he loses.

The main problem I have is that it breaks what duel was in all the previous Quakes.

This mode is not bad, but it shouldn't replace duel or at least not be called duel. I agree that duel is unforgiving and that new player cannot stand to lose anymore so that this mode is better for them crybabies, but damn, the mod is losing its soul with this system while all other successful classic games like dota , Starcraft, CS:GO are also quite unforgiving when you play better opponents than you but they did not change anything at all, they stayed "true".

Comparison not relevant. In Starcraft you will lose the match with 1-0 not 20-0 and CS is not iconic for its 1v1 duels -don't even know if there is such duel mode in CS.

There is no score in a SC match, but you sure will have to struggle in some games, and for a lot longer than in a 10 minute duel.

TBH I think SC can be a much more frustrating duel game than Quake. :D

When you say "classic duel mode", do you mean that custom server business with no champs that will likely not be ranked or accessible by matchmaking, or do you mean some other new duel mode with champs that doesn't have rounds?

1 character which is same for both, no abilities.

or have options, in street fighter, tournament rules are agreed on.
Speed, number of rounds etc, even if the game allows variables to them. They become the known standard.

matchmaking for me is less important than having the mode.
But no reason for it not to be ranked.

someone below said this mode should be called elimination, I like that, because it sounds appropriate and it still leaves the name duel/tourney free, which should be known is the ultimate challenge because it is. Or until the new duel mode has proven to work.

Its good that traditional duel players are sandboxed from those getting to grips with 1v1.

There's no need to screw the rest of us.

The matchmaking helps because it brings players to the mode. Otherwise, it will just be the same 17 guys playing it, and with it being overshadowed by other modes on the competitive scene, it won't really have any prestige. It'd be on the level of any other "fun" mode people piss fart around in.

If they turn off the matchmaking for that mode, one must wonder why. Will a player landing in classic duel be scared off from the game? Surely, they'd play it once and then never bother with it again if it were so bad. Or are they worried that classic duel will once again become the main competitive mode despite their efforts to create something else? I don't think sandboxing is necessary since matchmaking, if it works, should already be doing that through skill matching.

It makes sense to look to SF for tips on how to manage these balance issues in a 1v1 setting.

I like the idea of calling this new mode elimination.

> By breaking the game up with rounds and making it shorter or giving the player fresh hope instead of 10 mins of rape, you don't make the player feel like shit, even if he loses.

Honestly, this is fundamentally the reason why games are becoming dog shit. You don't simplify the game for the average player, you give them the ability to learn - in a progressive fashion - so that they can 'ease' into it.

Essentially, if proper matchmaking existed, just basic duel would be fine. How can anyone argue about getting smoked if matchmaking actually worked? Yea, you're going to run into veterans or 'smurfs' or whatever the fuck those people are called, but the whole point of games nowadays should be to TEACH a new player HOW to improve. Not simplify the game to the point of being simplistic, basic, and unappealing to everyone but the newest of new players.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that id needs to be completely aware of the eSport scene. Will watching a bo3 of a bo5 be appealing? As a veteran player, it looks abysmal.

"You don't simplify the game for the average player, you give them the ability to learn"
with a proper mode or game balance learning can also come quicker and this is what this mode supposed to do (with proper modifications that I'll mention further)

I feel the attempt here is to make a more spectator friendly mode, with shorter matches, and more meta crap that the commentator can talk about (hero pick, sequence, etc). One benefit of this mode is that unballanced matches should end rather quickly.

The main issue I see is that at high level, this could easily become a plus back fest. That could still be interesting for certain people, but the sheer spectacle value goes below the floor. And you would never have an awesome final like rapha evil last year, as the notion of comeback is really limited, and there can only be so much action before the match is bound to end.

Let's see how it plays....

Although, Quake and FPS games as a whole are completely different, I don't feel perpetuating an 'ADHD' approach to Quake duel will somehow make it more entertaining. As you said, it could still blow back in their faces. I think you're accurate in saying it will degrade into a +back fest. The player only has a certain amount of lives to play with. The amount of risk taken will be lowered completely.

However, some of the biggest eSports involve individuals watching matches for 45 minutes or more. Are we really trying to say that 10 minute duels is too boring for the average player? Are people really that disinterested in watching and appreciating the meta game of Quake? Meh. Some of the best Quake duels ever is watching comebacks, or even watching guys like Cooller control a map completely for straight minutes.

I simply don't understand how id is able to even qualify this mod as duel as it has never been like this in the history of Quake. Make it a different mod, keep duel as it has always been: classic 1 on 1, the best player wins.

This MOD should be called Elimination
Since it's exactly that...you play until you eliminate all opponents champions.

This looks fun for a time if you are waiting your friends to come online and you can start playin team based modes, or as casual aim / champion practice....something like random SC2/DooM arcade mods.
I dont see this as competition wise or tournament worthy at all than just a casual mod to lose time.

Agreed, 'elimination' or 'knockout' would suit the concept better and cause less of a commotion.

It's basically Hearthstone's Conquest tournament format.

Still, could be really good if, theoretically, we get 50 champions in the future and you go picking and banning them dota style before the match, even depending on the map itself. Some strategic potential there.

Team composition, counter-picking, etc "meta" is so boring. It just rewards memorization of attributes and stats of characters and pondering that all day, and gives an advantage before the game has even started to the one who is good at it.

Agreed, burn that shhhh with fire

Dude it's an fps, not dota. When you eat 4 direct rockets your stats knowledge means jack shit. Don't overthink it.

Still, could be really good if, theoretically, we get 50 champions in the future and you go picking and banning them dota style before the match, even depending on the map itself. Some strategic potential there.

Dude it's an fps, not dota. When you eat 4 direct rockets your stats knowledge means jack shit. Don't overthink it.

What seems to be the problem here?

If it means jack shit like you say, it provides no advantage and therefore has no strategic potential since there'd be no point to any strategy based on stats and champion knowledge if it didn't provide an advantage.

So what's the point of it? I can pick and ban randomly, choose any character any time, and have equal chances, right?

You can get owned by a 20-0 guy in dota as well. Doesn't mean captains mode makes no sense.

I'm not following you. Whether you can get owned or not by someone much better than you despite having the initial advantage is irrelevant.

If picking and banning champions, team composition, and counter picking become a source of advantage, you will need to do it to be competitive. That means investing time in what IMO is highly tedious shit, and it would firmly plant QC in MOBA territory.

On the other hand, if those things exist but don't become a source of advantage, then there is no "strategic potential" like you originally said.

It's about the concept of potential strategy. Whether or not it actually works is irrelevant as long as you sell it and as long as it seems logical from the outside. You can't keep reviving a dead concept for ever and fucking ever because oldschool deathmatch is long gone. The game didn't leave, people did. Can anyone finally accept that simple fact? You have to invent new stuff.

When quake4 was out, there was a solid number of lan tournaments, cooller won the ones in the beginning cause they were all still playing q3 style, then toxic won pretty much all of them except one with av3k and one eswc (i think, don't remember), the game was your basic oldschool deathmatch, looked solid for a while. And then it died within a year and a half. Then they've just put q3 within a browser for a couple more years before an agonizing death. Cause it doesn't fucking work. No, it's not about syncerror eating donuts, it's about the classic arena shooter genre being irrelevant compared to what the majority is playing.

id is not a group of volunteers here, they are making a product which will bring them money. Doing the exact same thing in 2017 would mean they are all borderline retarded. What would happen if they did quake3 for the third fucking time? You'd go "oh wow it's quake as it should be, a 20+ year old concept with modern visuals, the world is saved" and have another 2 years max before noone besides hc enthusiasts give a fuck about it? What then? You're gonna want quake3 for the millionth time with even better visuals? It's not a console game and it's not fucking call of duty to do the same thing each year. They are kind of trying to create a product to last. Even mentioning serious esport aspirations. To start from scratch rather than breathe in a couple more semi-successful years to a game on life support.

This is a closed beta and people are acting like the game is out.
There will be a classic duel mode!

...and people are crying about abilities. That's impressive. Yeah, some seem stupid. So fucking what?

There are champions and people are upset cause everyone will not be doing the exact same thing anymore in the pretty much the exact same way with more or less weapon accuracy - what classic deathmatch is. Fuck versatility, let the mouse sensitivity be what differentiates one guy from another from the spectator's point of view.

Not only do people want the exact same zombie game to be back so they can do the exact same thing for ever and fucking ever , but some of these people even want the same maps back. So they can literally do it for 10 more years. Imagine seeing ztn in duel finals again. Or aerowalk. Now that's just medical issues right there.

If you want directional movement and +attack, hope that 2gd finishes his game. Also, you got reflex. At least these guys finally have the balls to go all in and try something different before their diehard crowd of whiny bitches.

.

If only I was able to comment on this one without getting nuked for breaking NDA.

Actually, can't agree more on each point, even as someone who played a Q game in 1996 first.

What is mostly amusing many forget or even start arguing over 'id aims to create profit' point. Yes, they do. Yes, that is why there are transactions and skins. Yes, in 'non-classical modes' with no mod support (which will come to some degree anyway) this may cause disadvantages.

It's 2017 A.D., check your calendar.

So what you are saying is that people will be stuffing around with things thinking that it is strategy (i.e. some plan of play that increases their chances of winning), but really it is not strategy at all; it is just the illusion of strategy.

I get you now. Going by your original post, it looks like you think they've added something to the game that is just fluff but that you call "strategic potential".

By the way, the MOBA formula is not "new stuff" in the slightest. It is just stuff that certain types of gamers enjoy. I am not one of them. And despite the popularity of MOBAs, those gamers do not represent even close to a majority of gamers; they are a plurality at best. So it cannot be said that these "meta" elements are universally liked.

If oldschool deathmatch is truly dead, and there is some fundamental flaw with the gameplay such that modern "2017" retards cannot appreciate it, and it cannot be revitalized without turning it into a completely different genre of game, then maybe Quake should just be left alone, and id can create a new game with a different name.

There is a good chance this gameplay is not flawed, and that it can work if it is done properly with the right support, and no, it doesn't need to be an exact copy of q3, but it certainly doesn't have to be a MOBA either.

Q4 died because it was trash on release, and by the time it was patched up by the community, people had moved on. It is a failure in a long line of id's failures post-1999. QL was just another poorly delivered and supported game, allocated a bare minimum of resources, and it wasn't even a new game in its own right. People played it for years nonetheless.

What is good for business isn't something I actually care about. I just care about whether the game they produce at the end is worth playing. You can push a lot of units selling garbage to retards. I do appreciate that they have to make money, but I won't be playing trash regardless of how popular it is. And I'll say it again, it doesn't have to be q3. It just doesn't have to be a MOBA either---as if that is the only thing in existence now. (I'm not even claiming QC is a MOBA btw; I'm saying this in the context of the last few comments, which are about those MOBA elements.)

I really don't want to go into general coverage of everything that people on this forum are complaining about. It's like you're attributing to me the same views a collection of other people have. My comments to you were addressing specifically what you said about the MOBA-style "meta" elements having strategic potential, which you have now admitted they do not have. I mean, they either do, and you have to concern yourself with tedious shit, or they don't, and they are pointless fluff designed to appeal to the sort of person who wants to delude himself that what he is doing is smart.

It's clear you don't like classic deathmatch and that I don't like MOBAs, so this is now just a matter of personal taste. You cannot tell me my taste is wrong.

I don't like classic deathmatch?

I played Quake since Quake 2 came out back in 1997. Then I played Quake 3. Then I played QuakeLive til like 2010 or 2011. Pretty much 95% of the time I spent playing video games was within a deathmatch game. And I didn't play for casual fun, I played quake for insane amounts of time, and I've only played duel. I've been there when it began, and I've been there when it started to go down. What I don't like is throwing the potential of a new game down the drain by being afraid to do whatever wasn't seen already, ages ago.

I don't really see QC having literally anything to do with MOBA games. What's MOBA here, ranger teleporting or visor having wallhack from time to time? For me that makes no sense whatsoever. Overwatch is MOBA territory, you press 1 button and you potentionally kill 5 people. Ultimate abilities that actually do huge damage or buff players, team play revolving around the chronological order of player abilities, that's MOBA territory.

Whatever your history, your previous post gives the strong impression that you don't like deathmatch or that you are bored of it. I mean there is no innovation here. There is just taking the long-standing aspects of other types of games instead of the long-standing aspects of Quake. If you'd been playing those as long as Quake, maybe you'd be bored of that shit too. Personally, I never liked it to begin with.

If you look at the most popular games out there, they are filled to the brim with non-gameplay elements or never ending additions, like new heroes, that don't affect core gameplay. We haven't had a Quake game like that. We don't know how popular it could be. And in any case, it doesn't have to be as popular as LoL.

Where in this specific thread did I say QC doesn't have potential. We were talking specifically, and that somehow provoked you to launch into a generalized rant.

We were talking about picking and banning champions, team composition, and counter picking. These things are MOBA-esque. If QC has these things, it will be MOBA-esque. I even said in my previous comment that I don't think QC is a MOBA, but there is more to MOBAness than just super powerful abilities that can kill off a team.

Even if you don't want to call those aspects MOBA aspects, a turd is still a turd no matter its name.

Did you play Quake Champions?

I wasn't talking about QC in this thread. I was talking about what you thought might happen in QC. Specifically this:

"Still, could be really good if, theoretically, we get 50 champions in the future and you go picking and banning them dota style before the match, even depending on the map itself. Some strategic potential there. "

We kinda drifted from that in your comment #114 (only the first two sentences of which address my comment), but that's the context in which I am discussing this.

I haven't got a beta key yet, and I don't know whether there are servers here.

fighting games had character selection screens before mobas existed just some food for thought

I'm well aware of that. They also often try to prevent you from counter-picking, especially in tournaments.

Whether it is an aspect of fighting games or MOBAs or any other type of game, this mechanic sucks balls. But something tells me you like that. :P

i dont, actually. mobas suck

Are we talking about MOBAs or sucking balls? :P

What would happen if they did quake3 for the third fucking time? You'd go "oh wow it's quake as it should be, a 20+ year old concept with modern visuals, the world is saved"

It worked out fine for Counter-Strike...

Counter Strike is not an arena shooter.

Havent played heartstone too much, I'm not into building decks and memorizing all in advance. Give me weapons, movement and I'm all set.

That sounds horrible.

Still, could be really good if, theoretically, we get 50 champions in the future and you go picking and banning them dota style before the match, even depending on the map itself. Some strategic potential there.

Please no. I don't wanna have to memorize that stuff. I hope they won't go that far.

I refuse to believe ZeRo4 is using an RGB Razer plastic mouse pad.

I saw a film in the cinema the other day and the guy broke out a laptop with the razer logo on.

Think it was fast and furious 8.

How many fucking movies did you watch in the cinema yesterday if you think it was FF8?

Someone gave me 5 free tickets to use before they expire in 3 days so I saw everything. I like to see films on my own as everytime I go with someone they check their phone 50 million times a film, so I just don't bother asking, or accepting invites anymore.

FF8 (7.7) "it is what it is - impressive after 8 they still making ok films."
Belko Experiment. (6.5) "thought I would like it more than I did"
Life (8) "no bad"
Ghost In The Shell. (7.7) (Scarlet playing aloof elite women = decent-nice viduals)
Get Out (7.8) (Different and caught me out)

It was FF8 BTW.
http://concavebt.com/furious-8-top-10-product-placement-brands/

Between that and cramming some Quake Champs I'm feeling fried.

Face Off was better than all of them though.

Was his name p0rt?

3X4B-N9RA-M6FD-F9DA-Q34N

The tournament mode in that original quake 4 demo was a ton of fun (for me at least).

Remember spending a ton of time on the fragging yard with that

Yeah,it was indeed one of the best "new" things about q4

I hope they still make a classic duel mode with some new, fresh changes, but leave radical changes to other modes like this one. Which to me looks mediocre.

name a new, fresh change that could be made to duel that any existing member of the quake community would be okay with

penis ^_^

The game is clearly boring but... OMG this collection !! <3

Big amount of whine for a game mode no one will play.

For proper testing of the mod idSoft must use 2 different types:
-regarding casual players z4 vs syncherror is good to test
-regarding the pro scene they need to bring in rapha vs dahang or rapha vs cypher/evil (maybe contact them on twitch)

1.
3 frags per round is too small number because it would quite kill one of the core mechanics of the game, maybe the most important -acting in and out of control and how to get it back. Proper analysis of QL pro matches (!) must determine average score regarding matches. Divide it by 3 and I think it should stay close to 5 frags limit/5 min. So fraglimit must be 5 -it won't affect the casuals so much as 20 and it will also let the competitors do their control/out of control game. This would also not affect low scores matches aka rapha vs evil on elder

2.
champions must be selected before the beginning of each map, same as maps -with complex/established by organizers rules: like selection, elimination or both
however much we'd love to see more champs champions must not be selected after every frag because this would end up in broken match mechanics and generally affect the rhythm of the match -it would also discourage weaker players bc once they lose against you every map with every single champion they will feel stomped, while with this settings they could also put the blame on wrong class selection

this is shit. just look at tim willitds pasty white face and that horrible rape van smile.. he is smiling because he is raping quake legacy

I've given it a thought. And watched the full versions of these gloryful battles. Here's me trying to be constructive, i guess.

The abilities sure look great in duel, i must admit.

What i dislike is that round system, killing all the pace and item-based game. You just couldnt rush at opponent anymore, knowing that you will rush him again just before the MH, kill him and reward yourself with a tasty big bubble (or QC big nazi luftwaffe-cross, whatever).

I would get rid of rounds completely.

And leave 10 champion for each of the players.

And i would smoother the process of choosing next champ, for example, you could scroll down the champs while ur still alive, choosing the one u'll respawn with. It will be really faster and not feel like an entracte at the theatre (which every good theatre got rid of).

That way you will have ur "champions meta" while not making the game SO MUCH slower and defensive. And the speed is something id is build the whole qc brand around.

I like it!